Soft-tail Titanium 29

[ottoreni]

Well the other thread on this board stoked my interest in this type of frame.  I rode a Salsa Dos Niner several years ago and loved how that frame rode , but it cracked after a years use at the shock mount bolt. 

Flash forward to now, and I have been riding this frame for the past few months.

Frame was made by Titan.

Here are the pictures from the factory when frame was finished, prior to the last payment.

[carbonazza]

Amazing frame! You must be excited.
How flexy is the rear triangle?
The notches in the seatstays are there to give some more of it?
Will you go the belt way, with a Rohloff or similar?

[ottoreni]

The only to soft-tails I've ridden are the Moots YBB and the Salsa Dos Niner. 

I rode the Orange and Silver versions of the Salsa Dos Niner as is seemed Salsa was always adding more material to the rear of the frame for each new version in attempt to stop the frame failures that happened at that end of the frame.  Both of my frames cracked at the shock mounting bolt.  They were amazing riding frames, but they lacked lateral stiffness.  This was only noticeable for me when i was going fast down a mountain and carved into a turn.  It almost seemed that the front wheel and rear wheel were tracking on two different paths, until the rear end seemed to almost hop into the same track as the front.  I suppose that flex is what caused my frame failures.

This frame reminds me more of my Moots YBB.  Even though my Moots was a 26" bike and only had just over an inch of rear travel, this frame feels as solid as my Moots.  The big differences are that this frame is for  29' wheels and is getting just over two inches, 50mm, of travel (by my rough estimates), so it is a much more plush ride. 

The seat-stay cut-outs, besides looking cool, seem to add small bump compliance from what I was able to ascertain on the web. 

My main focus in getting this frame was two-fold. 
One, maintenance free suspension.  My full suspension frame has become a yearly ritual of replacing all the bearings (two times already).  For this frame, it will just be shock maintenance. 
Second, as I am well into my 50's, I started riding dirt when hardtails were the bikes to ride.  I still love the feel of a hardtail, and how it connects you to the ground, but as I age, hardtails seem to tax my body more and I need more recovery time in between rides.  After thirty years of riding, I finally picked up a full suspension to be able to increase my ride frequency due to shorter recovery times, but even my short travel full suspension, feels like I am missing that direct connect with the ground.

This frame is the best of both worlds.  I am glad I saw QuentinLL's thread and decided to pursue this build.  The two inches of rear travel is enough to shorten recovery times between rides, I can do 25 - 35 miles of riding over consecutive days, but I sill feel a solid connect to the ground when riding.  More riding is important to me as I age.

More pictures to come.

[ottoreni]

Here are the pictures of how the frame arrived.  Well packaged.

Interesting to note, I bought a custom titanium hardtail from Walty at the end of 2019, delivered sometime March 2020.  Shipping for that frame was about $100 to the United States.  When I checked for shipping this time , it seems both Walty and Titan charge twice that amount.

Also one pic of the hardtail.

[jannmayer]

Looks great, can't wait to see the final build!


What was the design process like with the flex plate? Do they use a standard thickness, or is that adjusted based on your weight?

[ottoreni]

I really did not think much about the plate thickness.  I automatically opted for the 6mm thickness, not the 3mm they have a standard option.  I do not even know if other thicknesses are offered. 

At my weight, about 185 lb with gear, I did not want a laterally flexy rear end.  As I mentioned earlier, my Dos Niner suffered from this, as it seemed the two wheels were tracking different lines carving into turns or berms, and suddenly the rear wheel would make a small hop when the frame lined up. 

This bike is much more like my Moots YBB, laterally stiff, but the just over two inches of travel, make it  vertically plush.  My Moots did not even have a flex plate, the chainstays flexed, but that was just over an inch of rear travel.

Also, the rear end of this frame has a solid, hardtail like, feel when pedaling.

I have read it many times before, and I will repeat it again myself,  Know what you want when dealing directly with the factory.  This is my third custom ti frame (Triton, Walty, and Titan) and my gut tells me they will build whatever you want, even if it might not be ideal in the end.

I looked at many other different frame geometries and bikes that rip through my local trails.  Two things I was really keen on, bottom bracket height and rear chainstay length.  I feel I hit the mark on both of these objectives.

 

[jannmayer]

Thanks for the feedback. I've been on the fence about moving from a hardtail to a full suspension bike, so this is an intriguing option. Do you mind sharing the geometry and drawings for the frame? I'm curious as to how something like this would work as a "downcountry" frame with 120-130 mm front travel.

[QuentinLL]

Do you have pictures of the build and a bike check ?
What shock do you use ?
How does it ride ?

[ottoreni]

I have one picture of the bike built up above.  I will try to get more pictures up this weekend.  It has been a busy holiday season with family and friends visiting.

I have a Fox Performance Elite Fork and Performance Elite Shock (extra volume) on the frame.

The bike rides solid.  By that I mean, no rear end flex as I mentioned my Salsa Dos Niner had.

I come in about 170 lb with gear and run the shock at 120 to 125 PSI  depending on the terrain.  Too much psi, and the rear end feels too stiff, the bike almost feels too hardtail like.  To little shock psi and the rear end feels like I have a flat.

When I have the rear shock at 120 - 125 psi the frame has its full travel, according to the shock O ring, the frame rear end feels solid with instant engagement when I turn the pedals hard and most importantly my legs feel fresh from not having to be the rear suspension as they are when I ride my hardtail.

I only have one regret about the frame and it is partially my fault.  The exit holes for the top tube inner cable routing are too close to the rear.  When the frame flexes, the cable gets rubbed on the hole and rubs off layers off the cable (brake and derailleur).  For the net frame like this, and I do like it that much that I plan to buy one next December, I will ask for the cable exit holes to be about 30 to 40mm farther away from the rear.

Pictures to follow this weekend.

[ottoreni]

Here are the pictures.  For some reason I cannot post straight from my phone, so it was a bit of a hassle to get them up.

[MTBiz]

Whats the actual rear travel youre seeing?
Do you do any jumps/drop offs with it ?
I was almost considering 8mm thick plate

Im in talking getting my version of this done