Goldix 21-spoke 2:1 spoke ratio disc hubs

[dsveddy]

Hi all,

I've found some centerlock hubs by Goldix on AliEx designed for 21-spokes and 2:1 lacing patterns, that is 14 crossed spokes on rear drive-side and 7 radial spokes on the rear non-drive-side, and 14 crossed spokes on the front non-drive (disc) side and 7 radial on the drive-side:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805026812998

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805132784998

These are the same lacing principle as Campagnolo G3 or Fulcrum's wheels, which is designed to even spoke tensions across drive and non-drive sides. It appeals to me, because in my mind I think it means I can get away with fewer spokes and have just as strong of a wheel. Also, when I spec these hubs with Pilar wing 20s and high-spec Deerobust rims, I get STUPID light weight predictions, like under 1350g for 55mm rim, or under 1300g for a 50mm rim.

The questions I want to field here:

Do people think these should be laced as a 3x or 2x pattern on the crossed sides? When I model it up in solidworks (embarrassingly, I found this easier than calculating the spoke lengths), the spokes come out of the hubs straigtest when laced 3x.

Do we think there is anything dangerous about going to 21 steel spokes, on say, a 50 or 55mm rim? I see that campag runs 24 spokes on their WTO rims, and I'm wondering if that's because 21 spokes is simply not going to be stiff. I want to hear your thoughts.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

[jannmayer]

I think it will ultimately depend on your size and how much power you can put out. I don't really buy the idea that only one side of the hub has to transmit torque from the cassette or brake disc since the hub is rigid.


Why would radial spoke be OK on the brake side of the rear wheel? You can put similar amounts of torque with the rear brake as with the drivetrain.

[dsveddy]

I’m definitely a bigger guy and can put some power down. 80kg and 300w+ FTP when well-trained. I hear you on the fact that torque transmits through the whole hub. My reasoning is that the hub experiences significant twisting/deflection under pedal load (at least according to Peak Torque), so if the goal is to maximize efficiency, it would make the most sense to make the torque transmission to the rim depend on the shortest load path as much as possible, and that would be through the drive side spokes. Now all this is in my head and not real life which is why I’m asking on here.

Rear braking is a concern. Given that the disc side spokes are radial this means the bulk of the rear braking torque will be transmitted through the hub shell and up the drive side spokes. I think the main reason I don’t see it as problematic as the reverse case is that with pedaling I’m trying to maximize efficiency, something that doesn’t matter with braking. But I am concerned if something about this arrangement is exceptionally stressful for the rim.

[Pedaldancer]

Hi all,

I've found some centerlock hubs by Goldix on AliEx designed for 21-spokes and 2:1 lacing patterns, that is 14 crossed spokes on rear drive-side and 7 radial spokes on the rear non-drive-side, and 14 crossed spokes on the front non-drive (disc) side and 7 radial on the drive-side:

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805026812998

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805132784998

These are the same lacing principle as Campagnolo G3 or Fulcrum's wheels, which is designed to even spoke tensions across drive and non-drive sides. It appeals to me, because in my mind I think it means I can get away with fewer spokes and have just as strong of a wheel. Also, when I spec these hubs with Pilar wing 20s and high-spec Deerobust rims, I get STUPID light weight predictions, like under 1350g for 55mm rim, or under 1300g for a 50mm rim.

The questions I want to field here:

Do people think these should be laced as a 3x or 2x pattern on the crossed sides? When I model it up in solidworks (embarrassingly, I found this easier than calculating the spoke lengths), the spokes come out of the hubs straigtest when laced 3x.

Do we think there is anything dangerous about going to 21 steel spokes, on say, a 50 or 55mm rim? I see that campag runs 24 spokes on their WTO rims, and I'm wondering if that's because 21 spokes is simply not going to be stiff. I want to hear your thoughts.

Thanks in advance for your advice.

Your links don't work on my smartphone and i must admit i am too lazy to copy the article numbers.
I guess the Goldix hubs you mention are straight pull. So you are not even free to choose.
They are 3x crossed on the 14 spokes side. I don't know how you do the solid works but give you a hint: have a very precise look on where the straight pull flange positions are, because this will create such a big error in the calculation, that you need to buy new spokes....

[idiopathy]

2:1 spoke ratio hub is very appealing to me too.   Does any know if these hub would be quiet or noisy? 

[dsveddy]

2:1 spoke ratio hub is very appealing to me too.   Does any know if these hub would be quiet or noisy?

The Goldix R240 is a 4-pawl system while the no-name version (that looks like a DT-swiss hub) is a 36t ratchet. I wouldn't expect either to be exceptionally loud.

[Pedaldancer]

The Goldix R240 is a 4-pawl system while the no-name version (that looks like a DT-swiss hub) is a 36t ratchet. I wouldn't expect either to be exceptionally loud.

They are not especially loud or silent. I use two sets of 21H goldix hubs.. one with Ratchet and one 4 pawl. If a silent hub is required, they are definitely not the correct choice.
I tried meanwhile to find the article numbers in the app.. sorry that's not working .. please enlighten me.. 

I wouldn't recommend the 21H style of you are not exceptional light rider and at the same time a very low profile/ light weight rim (not very stiff in other words)
I am very light weight, so I am perfectly fine. I just got this remark from a more heavy guy that for a strong and heavy rider it might feel wobbly.

[dsveddy]

I use two sets of 21H goldix hubs.. one with Ratchet and one 4 pawl.
I tried meanwhile to find the article numbers in the app.. sorry that's not working .. please enlighten me.. 

I think these links should work? I find that by adding .html I can get to the product page.


www.aliexpress.com/item/3256805026812998.html

www.aliexpress.com/item/3256805132784998.html

I'm considering both options at the moment. The pawl version is appealing for its light weight, but the fact the axle isn't anodized is a problem for me. Do you know if the ratchet version has an anodized axle?

[Pedaldancer]

I think these links should work? I find that by adding .html I can get to the product page.


www.aliexpress.com/item/3256805026812998.html

www.aliexpress.com/item/3256805132784998.html

I'm considering both options at the moment. The pawl version is appealing for its light weight, but the fact the axle isn't anodized is a problem for me. Do you know if the ratchet version has an anodized axle?

Nope  ..

I have no idea if the axle is anodized.. sorry but I don't remember. But : even silver could mean a sufficient aluminumoxide layer. Aluminum never comes without passivation layer... it's just nature given. Only the thickness in anodized surfaces may be higher.

[Pedaldancer]

https://a.aliexpress.com/_EHxaE8z
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EvHYvVj

  I could bet that they don't work for you now

[dsveddy]

Just bit the bullet and ordered this build with the 21 spoke Goldix ratchet hubs. Wish me luck!

[idiopathy]

Good luck.  Would like to hear your review of them once have one built up.   

[dsveddy]

So I'm just realizing a potential pitfall of this build: bearing spacing. The straight-pull side of the hub seems to require that the bearing be mounted further inboards compared to hubs with crossed lacing. The difference looks to be something like a centimeter, which is pretty massive. Pedaldancer, can you confirm?

[Pedaldancer]

So I'm just realizing a potential pitfall of this build: bearing spacing. The straight-pull side of the hub seems to require that the bearing be mounted further inboards compared to hubs with crossed lacing. The difference looks to be something like a centimeter, which is pretty massive. Pedaldancer, can you confirm?

?? I don't get your issue. The bearings are directly behind the end caps.
Why and what do you think is about the bearing on the radial flange? You must remove the end caps for one of the hub designs to insert the spokes on the radial side and additionally the axle does have holes to be able to insert the spokes... (that's valid for both styles i own) ...maybe that gives the answer to what you figured out as issue.

[dsveddy]

Thanks for the info. Good to know about the axle having a hole for lacing access.

What I mean is that on the rear hubs with crossed 24-spoke lacing, the bearing is right behind the centerlock threads to maximize the width of the bearing spacing. This would put the bearing offset at the same distance from the central plane as the spokes. On the radial laced hubs, I imagine this bearing is positioned further inboards to allow for access to the spoke holes, by about 1/2-1cm, which is a significant loss of bearing spacing—normally you want to maximize bearing spacing to minimize axial forces on the bearing. Furthermore, more bearing spacing decreases stresses on the axle, making the hub stiffer and more durable. So losing that amount of bearing spacing is significant in my mind.