GRX 820 or LTWOO eGR?

[jonathanf2]

the bike was ridden mostly indoor with no rain or moisture involved. the cable looks brand new..
i am not asking for this kind of trouble...the biggest pita is that ltwoo does not offer any help...after sending the photo..

Yeah, I think that's a big failure on LTwoo's part. My ER9 groupsets are working solid and I would probably get an EGR as well, but I definitely wouldn't recommend them to anyone who isn't bike competent. Also it seems 80 Design Store seems like the only seller that's taking personal responsibility for any issues. It's a shame too, because LTwoo whittled away being a viable alternative to the big brands by not offering a clear customer service path. I think reputation wise, they've taken a big hit internationally.

They should take a similar approach to Wheeltop. They could sell direct and say they will handle warranty issues only for groupsets bought from them. They can still have third party sellers who could sell groupsets at a lower cost, but those sellers would be responsible for covering warranty issues.

[trcycling]

Yeah, I think that's a big failure on LTwoo's part. My ER9 groupsets are working solid and I would probably get an EGR as well, but I definitely wouldn't recommend them to anyone who isn't bike competent. Also it seems 80 Design Store seems like the only seller that's taking personal responsibility for any issues. It's a shame too, because LTwoo whittled away being a viable alternative to the big brands by not offering a clear customer service path. I think reputation wise, they've taken a big hit internationally.

They should take a similar approach to Wheeltop. They could sell direct and say they will handle warranty issues only for groupsets bought from them. They can still have third party sellers who could sell groupsets at a lower cost, but those sellers would be responsible for covering warranty issues.

 

Good observation and recommendation. I'm rooting for LTWOO here. They clearly have at least a "good enough" first try with the electronic groupsets. And possibly better (verdict still pending IMO). The price/performance point they are hitting blows away the big three (well, sadly 2. something since Campy is a bit of an outlier lately) and will hopefully provide some downward pressure on pricing. But, if they don't get their go-to-market strategy and execution together, it won't help at all.

[rockerplates.de]

Definitely not making excuses for LTWOO, but did you send it via the retailer or directly?  I've gotten answers to questions from LTWOO but they do insist that support is supposed to go through the retailers.  In today's world, I think that manufacturers should be prepared for direct support along with channel support but that may be one of the issues.

Also on the failure, do I understand correctly that you believe the failure was the circuit board (or connectors) in the battery carrier?

we established ltwoo in our onlineshop before items popped up at aliexpress..we spread the brand as the first outlet in europe and tried to work as a distributor..all the products were bought at the factory...
we are not the only "distributor" which gets ghosted.

[rockerplates.de]

 

Good observation and recommendation. I'm rooting for LTWOO here. They clearly have at least a "good enough" first try with the electronic groupsets. And possibly better (verdict still pending IMO). The price/performance point they are hitting blows away the big three (well, sadly 2. something since Campy is a bit of an outlier lately) and will hopefully provide some downward pressure on pricing. But, if they don't get their go-to-market strategy and execution together, it won't help at all.

the easiest way for shimano to react would be to open the software to the same standard as the chinese approaching it. open di2 two both worlds 11- and 12 speed would be a game changer...

[amacal1]

the easiest way for shimano to react would be to open the software to the same standard as the chinese approaching it. open di2 two both worlds 11- and 12 speed would be a game changer...

Unfortunately I wouldn't hold out hope for them to be so open minded. Keeping their system locked down protects sales on cassettes, chains, cranksets, wheelsets, etc.

Being able to pair your derailleur with virtually any kind of component from any brand and dial it all in electronically saves me an enormous amount of money as a consumer. And, even if I do want the best performance and want the best Shimano has to offer, if I damage or wear something out, I can throw on my old spare 11sp or even 10sp components or wheelset or something and "get by" for a time while I price hunt and wheel & deal to save some money or wait for a big sales event. Without that, I'm forced to buy expensive stuff immediately to get back on the road as quickly as possible. Being able to say that you need a Shimano everything for it all to work and work well protects sales for everything of theirs.

[trcycling]

the easiest way for shimano to react would be to open the software to the same standard as the chinese approaching it. open di2 two both worlds 11- and 12 speed would be a game changer...

Neither Shimano nor SRAM are going to do that any time soon. Being able to support different 'speeds' is truly trivial. They've probably done it in testing. But it is against their business model. They want to force full upgrades of drivelines. Mechanical systems at least have real differences between the derailleur parts. But electronic shift doesn't have that. It is also why Shimano continues to offer an array of groupset lines below 105 that differentiate themselves partly on the different 'speeds'.

Shimano is showing an interesting turn of late with CUES having some more flexibility and compatibility. But I believe that is strictly driven by a desire to reduce SKUs in their inventory (costs) not consumer flexibility.

This is a big reason I'm hoping LTWOO and Wheeltop (and Sensah maybe) have some success. They are using this flexibility as an entry point even though not that many people will actually need it (I say that knowing that the 11-12s gap is probably widely used like I am with an 11s bike getting eshift that otherwise isn't possible with Big S brands.). I'm not pooping on Big S and the other Big S. I have and like their product. But I don't like their product segmentation and pricing strategies and hope to break a hole.

[jonathanf2]

To go back on topic slightly, I did try a GRX 822 small cage (45t max) RD with my Ultegra 11 speed shifters. It did not shift properly. Towards the big cogs, it was horrendous. In fact it gave me a better appreciation of the 11 speed GRX derailleurs being closely aligned with the road groupsets (GRX 822 does away with the shadow RD hanger). I ended up swapping to a Goatlink extender which allowed me to shift properly with a GRX 812 RD and a 9-46t 11 speed cassette. In fact I had better chain line alignment by doing this.

Even though a YT'er was able to get the long cage GRX 822 RD to work (w/11 speed shifters), at least for me it was no-go. I'd say EGR definitely has an advantage in this regards doing away with shifter/RD compatibility issues.