Seraph Bikes Superlight 836g X68 - Alternative to SL8 Fakes?

[glepore]

I'd be curious to see how you would feel if you controlled for the wheelset by using the same wheels for a back to back.

So far you've confirmed what was for me just a guess as I don't have an actual sl8. I was impressed with the bike as a standalone thing, but didn't expect that it would be "indistinguishable." As I said early on, if I could get 70% or so of an actual sl8 for 1/5 the price I'd feel good about that. I think it might actually be better than that...

[Sander2177]

I'd be curious to see how you would feel if you controlled for the wheelset by using the same wheels for a back to back.

So far you've confirmed what was for me just a guess as I don't have an actual sl8. I was impressed with the bike as a standalone thing, but didn't expect that it would be "indistinguishable." As I said early on, if I could get 70% or so of an actual sl8 for 1/5 the price I'd feel good about that. I think it might actually be better than that...

I rode the SL8 yesterday using the same wheels — it’s the only set I have at the moment.
As I mentioned, the SL8 feels more refined and smoother, which is clearly down to the carbon layup. It definitely has an edge, though whether that edge is worth the extra £4,000+ is debatable.

That said, it was only a single 50 km ride, so I’ll need a few more rides over the next few weeks to really see how it holds up.

This is just my personal opinion — I’m just one guy, not an expert if people want to listen and it helps great.

The X68, it’s a good frame however people have had quality problems and that fork issue was not good but I will obviously keep a close eye on
If TanTan (or whoever actually makes it) put a bit more time and care into the quality and finish, I’d happily pay an extra $150–$200 myself.

[JustinFox]

I'm not surprised that it's a decent ride, nor am I surprised if there are issues with quality control with the BB/brake calliper facing etc.). Would I ever expect a counterfeit/replica frame to be better than an original? Not at all, and that's my problem. IE: I know I'd have a LOT of fun building up a cheap Chinese frame, but I also know it's not going to be as good as my genuine frame, so whilst I'm super tempted to buy one for the fun of it, sadly I already know that it's just not going to be as good (and definitely not better).

That said I am pretty keen on buying a Chinese frame from a Chinese brand that is innovating and doing some legit R&D. Seka, X-LAB. Sure, they're not as cheap, but there's big time potential for a Chinese manufacturer to make a bike that's better than my S-Works SL8, and I'm not only all for it. I'm downright excited about it!

[Davidhe23]

I rode the SL8 yesterday using the same wheels — it’s the only set I have at the moment.
As I mentioned, the SL8 feels more refined and smoother, which is clearly down to the carbon layup. It definitely has an edge, though whether that edge is worth the extra £4,000+ is debatable.

That said, it was only a single 50 km ride, so I’ll need a few more rides over the next few weeks to really see how it holds up.

This is just my personal opinion — I’m just one guy, not an expert if people want to listen and it helps great.

The X68, it’s a good frame however people have had quality problems and that fork issue was not good but I will obviously keep a close eye on
If TanTan (or whoever actually makes it) put a bit more time and care into the quality and finish, I’d happily pay an extra $150–$200 myself.

It's true that they have some very silly quality flaws. The transition spacer is a problem because you don't discover it until you have the handlebars tightened to the correct torque. Vivian's response was, buy another one; any original one will fit.

I feel the frame is in good shape; it's very rigid in the front, and the rear absorbs bumps well. I expect the original frame to be several times superior.

[Sebastian]

That's interesting! Definitely not interested in light chains that cost more and last less.
When do you swap chains? Because the internet says to swap 11/12s chains at 0.5%, not 0.75%. So, your Chorus chain, at 10k km, you're still below 0.5%?
For reference, YBN chains are well regarded and test well (made in Taiwan, not China, it seems that for chains, it still matters). I've been happy w KMC too. I can't say i tracked it closely, but my sentiment is also that SRAM isn't great (their flat top chains test among the worst, too, another SRAM counterproductive piece of engineering).

I haven’t tried Sram‘s flattop chains. Only 11sp. The cheapest ones which are the Apex and Rival level chains. They’re cheap and I used them for gravel. So I didn’t really mind the wearing rate.
I’d have to check the exact wear ratio of my Chorus chain. I just have one of these very basic 0.75/1.0 gauges. I usually swap them when I see them visually approaching the 0.75 mark. So I guess somewhere before 0.75 is when I usually replace them. And it’s nowhere near that so far.
At the moment, I’d probably recommend buying KMC X12 chains. Simply because you can buy them factory waxed for somewhat reasonable money. And I’m lazy. I just love the fact that I don’t have to do the initial grease stripping. Just put it on the bike. Ride till it’s noisy. Re-wax. Done.

[WadaWada]

I finally built up the frame I got from Nicole on Aliexpress, it's not bad, however, the carbon internals can be better (battery di2 holder sucks had to apply some masking tape, and the one-piece bar stem cap does not sit flush, the seat stays can be better as well, but everything aligns, bb was well centered on both sides and the bike rides super stiff, it's actually more stiff than the real one granted the fake one has more carbon and weighs more

So far, ridden about 30 miles, with mix of climbs and flats, this rides super well and stiff and is very engaging and grounded, I feel super safe putting out power on this, but time will tell, I have noticed a few glaring suspicious fractures/cracks , 1 small piece of carbon that chipped out in the seat post area and a tiny mark on the fork steerer tube it self

Also, the S/N that it came with on the peel me sticker, comes back as a legit sl8 but its the sl8 expert, non sworks model if that matters , the production sticker and the peel me have different s/n , there is no bb s/n sticker underneath so thats another flaw, and the S logo at the front speed sniffer is smaller than on real, but u can get a decal

For context, I have all real headset parts on and real wheel axels as well as real spacers

Thoughts ?

[casper.f]

I have noticed a few glaring suspicious fractures/cracks , 1 small piece of carbon that chipped out in the seat post area and a tiny mark on the fork steerer tube it self

Did you take any pictures? "Cracks" sounds really bad.

Btw you not fooling anyone with elite wheels and 105 on an S-Works

[Tom77]

I saw it in Vivian's Status on WhatsApp and was wondering why showing an incomplete build there for promotion? Strange they haven't used my exploded fork for promo, its almost an incomplete build

Joking aside, it's three weeks since my last conversation with them. Looking forward to a new fork, but so far no sign of them. @TanTan Would be nice shipping out the replacement fork incl. the expander soon 

Chinese do chinese things....

[Tom77]

They don’t. As with many things bike related, more expensive usually just means lighter. Not more durable. I agree that saving weight doesn’t really make any sense with chains. Just like with disc rotors IMO (unless you rarely ever need to brake).
But there are differences IME. I’m only talking about 11 and 12sp here.  I haven’t tried YBN. But I have found Sram chains to wear the quickest. KMC are good value for money. Shimano are solid. But Campy chains outlast everything IME. I’m close to 10k on a Chorus 12sp chain and it just does not seem to wear all that much. It also works very well with hot wax. I’ve found that with the surface coating of some other chains, the wax does not seem to stick very well and they get noisy very quickly.

+1

Running Campa on my 11s and it is definetly the best one.

On my 13s EKAR I'm running SRAM Force flattop and it lasted 7k km Gravel incl. bike packing in the desert

[Tom77]

I tried my best, I have 90mm power, a difference in height between handlebars and saddles of only 6cm, I was still very stretched on the bike.
I take this opportunity to announce that I sell a Tantan X68 size 56 with only 2000 km at a good price. 

56 is just too big for your size, that's for sure.

[WadaWada]

Did you take any pictures? "Cracks" sounds really bad.

Btw you not fooling anyone with elite wheels and 105 on an S-Works

lol, people can put any group set and wheels on their frames but , the cracks aren't actually cracks, it's more of defects and small/tiny, no creaking

[Tom77]

What size would you get for 186 cm 88 cm inserm ? 56 or 58 ?

56

[kubackje]

56

How is 56 working for you? Actually I think you could also easily fit on 58

[Tom77]

How is 56 working for you? Actually I think you could also easily fit on 58

I'm 185cm / 89cm and running a SL6 in 56 with a 100mm stem and a handlebar with 104mm reach, spot on.
Also owning a BMW in 57, I like the 56 more.

[JImportante]

How is 56 working for you? Actually I think you could also easily fit on 58

I'm 189cm tall and 92.5cm inseam and I choose 58. 110 stem/380 width and it's perfect for me so far.

Today I weighted a bike and it's 7.5kg with pedals and all mounts.