Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: DandyAndy on October 13, 2016, 07:10:23 AM
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I finally started a new build with SRAM EAGLE 1x12 Drivetrain. I've chosen following components based on weight, price/performance ratio, people's feedback or simply personal preferences :-)
COMPONENTS
Disc brakes:
- Shimano SLX Set Scheibenbremse BR-M7000 mit G02A Resinbelag (Black)
23.10.2016 - I settled for SLX brakes over XT as initially planned, because believe them to be practically identical as well as differences and weight penalty to be not worth extra 45€ (125€ for SLX vs. 170€ for XT).
- 2xShimano SM-RT66 Bremsscheibe 6-Loch 160mm I-SMRT66S
SRAM Eagle Group:
SRAM 12-fach Eagle Kassette XG-1299 10-50T (Gold)
SRAM XX1 Eagle 12-fach Kette Hollow Pin (Gold)
SRAM XX1 Eagle 1x12-fach Kurbel GXP 32T (Gold)
SRAM XX1 Eagle Type 3 Schaltwerk 12-fach lang (Gold)
SRAM XX1 Eagle 12 Speed Gripshift (Gold)
Bottom bracket:
- Truvativ GXP Team Lagerschalen
Rear shock:
- RockShox Monarch RT3 Dämpfer Modell 2016
Front suspension:
- RockShox Reba 120mm MY2012
Wheels:
- Mavic XA Elite Laufradsatz 29 Zoll WTS2.35 (Black) Rotor XD
Headset
- Cane Creek 40 Tall Cover Complete Steuersatz Tapered - IS42/28.6 | IS52/40 - schwarz
Wiring:
- Jagwire Mountain Elite Pro - Schaltzugset (Rot)
Bar:
- Easton EC70 Carbon 40 mm 31.8 High Riser Lenker
Stem:
- Procraft SL 40° 31.8 Vorbau 180mm
Seat Post Clamp:
- eXotic Double Seat Clamp 34.9 and 31.6
To the frame. People recommending to disassemble the Frame and re-grease the bearings. Not sure it is wise. I opened the main pivot axe and can confirm the the bearings are sealed. They are not anodized, but they are sealed and I'm just not sure it is right to remove the seal in order to re-grease. To my understanding you cannot peel off the silicon seal without even slightly damaging it and you cant just put it back, you need a new seal for that.
If you guys are interested - let me know and I can keep you posted with my build progressing. Post some pics.
Unfortunately my excitement upon getting the new frame from Paul evaporated very quickly. I am pretty sure XMIplay send me a bumped one - but I'll put this in a separate post.
This is my first complete build from scratch and at the moment I got quite urgently another question where I need to pick up your experience.
I have an integrated Cane Creek series 40 headset and got slightly insecure with the very first step. The upper bearing fits a bit loosely. Though my caliper shows for both exactly 42.0mm, the bearing can move (lateral) inside the cap with ease. When I move it to a side I can see approximately 0.3mm gap between the bearing and the cap with torch light. Is it normal? There are no tech videos on integrated headsets and I cannot find anywhere over the internet information on how easily the bearings should actually fit into cups. And I'm afraid to have a play in my steering. The cups were faced by the XMIplay.
I'd very appreciate informed advises.
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Once you press, the conic part of the bearing should get against the conic part on the frame and lock laterally the bearing.
The top bearing may not be pressed correctly if it doesn't touch the top cup.
To do so you need to add some headset shims so the top cup will press against the top bearing, and press it down.
And yes, we are all always interested to see pictures :)
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That does indeed sounds like a very nice build, what was wrong with the frame if I may ask ?
Karsten
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Hi guys! Thanks for replying so fast!
@carbonazza So, I suspected that the cone in the cup should restrict lateral shifts once the topcap is tightened up, but still wasn't entirely sure. Everyone keeps saying "press" the bearing in, while mine just "falls in". It sits nicely on the cone though, looks maybe 1mm out of the tube (an ideal position if I got it right from all the manuals).
"The top bearing may not be pressed correctly if it doesn't touch the top cup." You mean if the bearing doesn't go into the cup? What are those headset shims? I looked at the pictures, those are flat shims. I cannot grasp how would they work on tapered/coned bearing/cup architecture...
@Karsten The headtube was hit on the lower ring at sharp angle. The paint got cracked and lower cup got bent, so that the headset doesn't fit in anymore. The frame was wrapped very very well, I'd say - nukeproof and it is lower ring, it is not exposed to the bumps during transportation. So I am pretty sure Paul have sent me already bumped frame. It's not the end of the world, but I am still quite disappointed. Not sure what to do right now... Of course normally very responsive Paul ignores my mail at the moment.
Also that plastic insert which holds the pivots was snapped in two. It didnt seem to cause any problems though, because of the good wrapping.
Andy
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Very sorry to see the frame came to you damaged. I remember on my -036, I always had some trouble getting the headset tight with no movement. I needed to push and wiggle the fork & stem to ensure the stack was tight to begin with before tightening the expansion nut. Initially I thought I had a mismatch between the headset bearing size/angle and the bearing cup in the frame but later determined this was not the case, just needed to ensure things were in contact prior to tightening the headset down.
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Oh, thanx Carbon_Dude! You just eased my mind. It's just that in every video or manual out there everyone is pressing-in the cups and then pressing bearings in cups with the heavy-duty presses.
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For the -036, it's an integrated headset that drops/slides in. No press fit on this frame, no tools required to install or remove the headset.
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"The top bearing may not be pressed correctly if it doesn't touch the top cup." You mean if the bearing doesn't go into the cup? What are those headset shims? I looked at the pictures, those are flat shims. I cannot grasp how would they work on tapered/coned bearing/cup architecture...
To be sure of the words used: https://www.canecreek.com/resources/products/headsets/forty/manuals/40%20IS%20Instructions.pdf
You need to add headset shims( of about 0.2mm ) between the Top-Cover Assembly and the Bearing.
So the top cover can press on the bearing before touching the frame.
The top cover should be flush with the frame once pressed( 0.5mm ).
About the sizes.
I got frames I had to use a press, and others I had so much play I was wondering if the bearing wasn't too small.
But once you press everything well the conic shapes lock fine.
A pity for the hit on the frame.
And again a bad reaction from the seller when things go wrong :-\ this will not help their cause here.
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I see! Thanks for explaining. Got it. I think in my case the top bearing shows just about right above the frame when placed in cup, so that when pressed together the top assembly will be very near but still wouldn't touch the frame. I tried without fork and it was ok. We'll see when I do the assembly.
I'll give Paul a couple of days to react, than will post here.
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Looks a good hit to the head tube. From the scratches it appears to be before its packed. Cant scratch it like that with all the wrapping around it. I wonder if Paul packs them himself or its done elsewhere. I think its been dropped while hanging up from its triangle.
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Did the seller replied to you at the moment?
Not the best experience...
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Sorry been away for a while. Paul had answered. He insists that it must have been bumped during shipment and that he checked it before and was tip-top. I still have hard times imagining that such a sharp hit could go through all these padding, but ok... He is ready to reimburse me somehow. I haven't found time to spend further on this question so far, but will keep you posted.
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Routing
Hi Guys! Wanna run an idea by you, before doing smthn stupid.
Yesterday, I played , I swear, for at least half an hour, that monkey in a lab, that have to get a treat out of the box with a twig. My brakes arrived, so naturally I drained them like 10 minutes after and went out happily to pull a line through the frame. I got myself a standard kit, without giving it a second thought - means Rear Brake on the right, Front on the left. So, I wanted to use left opening for the top entrance (which was a wrong idea anyway, but doesn't matter). Only after many failed attempts to pull the guide through the openings I wanted, have I realized that the ports are connected with each other. No one mentions that routes are fixed with internal tubing between the fittings. Actually the guides are totally obsolete because of this. You can just pull them out. The routing scheme is fixed and fixed specifically for 2x drivetraines, with shifting going internally and rear brake line going externally along the bottom of the down tube.
That doesn't suite me. I used the front derailleur route for the rear brake line. On the top this one comes out on the right. I now looked closely on people's pics with 1x builds. Lot of guys leave it on the right and just connect it to the lever. I don't like this idea. It delivers relatively sharp angle at the lever, unnatural flex and a nasty rub on the frame.
I see 2 potential solutions and wanted to do a sanity check with you.
1) Bend the hose between top and down tubes to the left. Like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/lBVgGYHl.jpg)
Ok, the bend is relatively sharp, but other than that it is ok for the rest - nice flex, entrance to the lever not under load.
2) Second idea is more radical. It is to switch the sides - connect rear caliper with left lever and front one with right lever. This would mean not only to drain the front brake, but shortening the line as well. So it's irreversible decision. But it will give an ideal connection for both brake lines.
Which way would you guys go?
In addition - I cannot find how people guide the rear brake line around bottom bracket area. I decided to do it like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/iS0wl6rl.jpg)
The bend is relatively sharp, but I checked - the flex is surprisingly natural and ok.
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Poor man's racing crown and star nut installation
Just wanted again to stress the point of not using special tools, but doing it poor man's style. A lot! can go wrong if you use special tools but do not have experience. A lot!
You simply cannot screw up anything doing it this way. And of course, cost point is 1.68€ :)
Those are obviously 2 independent steps, but for the picture simplicity, I combined them.
(http://i.imgur.com/Bx9Fy9g.jpg)
racing crown
(http://i.imgur.com/YcXEKwX.jpg)
star nut
(http://i.imgur.com/WuznSYf.jpg)
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I setup my IP-036 normally with the right lever going to the rear brake so I can't help you there. You can always buy more brake line if you want to go back after cutting you lines shorter.
I routed my rear brake line under the pivot, between the crank and the pivot. I then put one of the snap on rubber cable savers in that same spot. Seemed two work fine, never had any problems with the brake line being routed there. I did start to see some rubbing on my brake line where it entered into the frame up by the head tube though.
To set the crown race, all I used was a small block of wood and a rubber mallet. However, many people say just buy a short length of PVC pipe of a particular diameter from your local home improvement store, and tap the crown race down using the pipe and a couple wacks with a hammer. It doesn't really need to be a press fit fixture as sophisticated as you show.
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Routing
I'm very surprised you have the routing that complex. On my brother's bike, with an eagle and F/Left R/Right brakes too, it went quite easy.
We only had to fiddle a little to pass the connectamajig of the rear shock.
If you plan to change the routing, let me know and we can take a picture or two.
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I routed my rear brake line under the pivot, between the crank and the pivot. I then put one of the snap on rubber cable savers in that same spot. Seemed two work fine, never had any problems with the brake line being routed there. I did start to see some rubbing on my brake line where it entered into the frame up by the head tube though.
I also wanted to route just along the crank. It seemed obvious at first - just a straight line. However! When I moved pivots the whole range - line snaps in that cleft between the pivot and BB. It can crash the line. Can you post some pics? May be I'm overthinking the issue.
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To set the crown race, all I used was a small block of wood and a rubber mallet. However, many people say just buy a short length of PVC pipe of a particular diameter from your local home improvement store, and tap the crown race down using the pipe and a couple wacks with a hammer. It doesn't really need to be a press fit fixture as sophisticated as you show.
Yep. I just whacked mine against the floor couple of times - sat perfectly. The press fit is for the star nut.
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I routed my rear brake line under the pivot, between the crank and the pivot. I then put one of the snap on rubber cable savers in that same spot. Seemed two work fine, never had any problems with the brake line being routed there. I did start to see some rubbing on my brake line where it entered into the frame up by the head tube though.
I also wanted to route just along the crank. It seemed obvious at first - just a straight line. However! When I moved pivots the whole range - line snaps in that cleft between the pivot and BB. It can crash the line. Can you post some pics? May be I'm overthinking the issue.
Here you go, like I said though, I added a cable saver where the brake line touches the bottom bracket:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_29er_cable_routing-3.jpg)
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Thanks. So, maybe I really need to think less and just go straight for the port. None of you had issues caused by working stays shifting the whole line because there is no flex loop? I mean it's a significant shift - 5-8mm...
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I can't speak to cable routing, but when I replaced the shifting and suspension control cables on my (formerly Carbon Dude's) CS-036, I used wire shrink to protect the cables at the frame hole exits. It's terrific stuff. There's no wear to speak of on those sections after a hundred miles. When I shorten the brake cables later, I'll throw in some shrink to replace the rubber protector visible on the left.
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Hey alexdi, good to see you joined the forums. Your cable protection looks very good! What size heat shrink tubing did you use?
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Thanx Alex! This is actually a great idea! So, I assume you do heat (shrink) the shrink? It is fixed, then.
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Thanx Alex! This is actually a great idea! So, I assume you do heat (shrink) the shrink? It is fixed, then.
Yes, indeed. I have a heat gun with a curved head that made it easy to bring them up to temperature without affecting the surrounding paint. The benefit of the tubing is significant on this frame because the frame exit holes have sharp edges. You could get away with using less of it than I did.
Carbon Dude, I pulled the tubing from this assortment:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B019EXKWRO/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I think it was the middle-right size.
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Rear shock
Never expected to get any troubles at this step. Rear shock mounting is the simplest step in the whole world! Yet the universe decided to prove me wrong.
So, i finally got my needle bearing - it was time to put my brand new shiny Monarch RT3. It started right at the very beginning.
1) Gliding bushings are fit so tightly in Rockshox (riding DT Swiss shock) - I was unable to remove it by myself and needed guys from LBS to do that for me. During all those attempts either I or LBS guys or both scratched and put little dents around the eyelet - so tightly the bushing sits!
2) To press-in the needle bearing I needed to remove rubber lips from my vice and press so hard I thought I gonna damage the bearing for sure!
3) For the front eyelet I just bought standard 21.8x8mm mounting 3 piece set, thinking that there is almost no movement in front, so why bother with a bearing... Am I just ignorant? I always thought that the bushing pin supposed to rotate in the gliding one... That is why it is called GLIDING! That is why it is coated with nylon or whatev! The bushing pin doesn't just slide in. It needed to be press fit. I pressed it against a wooden block and that wood got dents. So the bushing pin is now fixed, it is not gonna twist. Ok, I thought, bushing is going to twist around the shaft (shock bolt). Apparently not so easy. If you tighten the bolt with any strength it's enough to fix the bushing pin completely (against the frame), so the shock doesn't turn at all.
At the moment I see only 1 solution to that - put a liter of loctite in the bolt and do not tighten it seriously.
I mean, what a heck?! DT Swiss got a fancy mounting hardware, but there is never a problem fixing it. Rockshox is idiotically simple and yet...
Update 09.01.2017
I attempted to solve this problem by ordering new Titanium shock bolts. Ordered 37mm ones, thinking that I'll shorten them a little. When the bolts arrived it appeared that our Chinese friends have their own understanding of standards. Given 37mm, is the total length of the bolt, not just the shaft as anyone would expect. So the length of the shaft was exactly the same as old shock bolts - 34mm. And no longer Ti recessed bolts are made by them.
Luckily, a standard aluminum profile sold in local building supplies stores has exactly needed dimensions - 8mmx1mm. I made a 3.1mm long spacer (and am left with another 1.5m of the profile :D ). This gives a perfect axle length, so when I tighten it, the frame mounts are not compressed and in turn do not compress bushing pin.
The alternative was to source some longer steel bolts and cut them. Unfortunately, in Europe, those recessed bolts are not so easy to come by.
This is how it looks:
(http://i.imgur.com/VWmrYnzm.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/9p8H79ym.jpg)
For comparison - here are the standard shock bolts which come with 036 frame:
(http://i.imgur.com/b1OiLJhl.jpg)
So, apparently my case is unique. No one else experiencing this problem with their shocks. Do you, guys, use shorter than recommended bushing kits?