Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29+ & 27+ => Topic started by: Carbon_Dude on July 02, 2016, 07:35:48 PM
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Okay guys, looks like I've got my IP/CS-057 sold. The buyer has committed to buying it but only after I install my GX drivetrain from my Trek Stache. I'm happy to change out the parts and sell the bike a little cheaper since it will be an upgrade to the Trek. One minor bump in the road is the Stache has Boost spacing on the chainring (+3mm offset) while the -057 has the standard zero offset. Not a big deal, I just ordered two chainrings to make the swap and have the correct chain lines.
Once I get everything changed over I have a new problem to solve, what to do next?
I'm looking at either building a 27.5+ full suspension bike using the XMCarbonSpeed CS-M04 http://xmcarbonspeed.com/Productinfo.asp?f=1438 (http://xmcarbonspeed.com/Productinfo.asp?f=1438)
(http://xmcarbonspeed.com/U_F/U_Img/201631015273149084.jpg)
Or go off-the-shelf again and buy a Specialized Stumpjumper 6Fattie https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/mountain/trail/stumpjumper-fsr-comp-6fattie/107081 (https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/mountain/trail/stumpjumper-fsr-comp-6fattie/107081)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/SJ_6Fattie.jpg)
If I go with the Specialized bike, I think I will be ban from Chinertown as I will no longer own any Chinese carbon whatsoever! Bummer.
Pretty much no carbon of any kind at that point. However, I've learned that a carbon frame is getting to be less important with plus tires as the extra air volume smooths out the ride more than the frame material ever did.
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Carbon Dude, you will definitely have to change your screen name since you won't own any carbon bikes any more!
Weird, but I have the new Trek Stache too and I love it! I can basically ride anything here in Cali, but once in a while my body wants a full suspension on the bumpy stuff. I rode a Spec 6fattie (carbon) and loved it, but I can't afford 4K or whatever it costs. The aluminum version of that bike makes lots of sense.
You definitely should build up that new XM Carbonspeed 27.5+ frame, so we can all see how you build it up. I would be really interested in a 29+ full suspension, but have only seen 2 (Lenz and Lamere) anywhere. I was wondering if there's a Chinese version of that Lamere frame that could be built up as a 29+ FS.
Good luck whatever you choose, and thanks for keeping us updated.
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Yes, the Lamere Cycles 29+ frame really seems like a Fatbike frame they just put 29+ wheels on. With 177mm rear axle spacing and the wider crank, it just doesn't fit the bill for what I'm looking for. I'd prefer something like my Stache but with rear suspension.
Maybe I should just wait 12 months and see what's available then. In the meantime, I will at least get a demo ride of the Specialized SJ+ bike.
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Take a closer look at the cs-001, it's a fatty, but the geometry looks the closest to the main stream plus full suspension bikes. Hightower, Pipeline, ellsworth Epiphany + ( which my father is demoing this weekend).
If we go the China carbon route for him, it will be theasier CS-001 frame, built as a 27.5+.
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Since you are changing a lot, why not build a gravel?
I'm waiting for Peter, who teased me with an upcoming model.
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Since you are changing a lot, why not build a gravel?
I'm waiting for Peter, who teased me with an upcoming model.
Changing bikes but not changing venues. I prefer our dedicated mountain bike trails that are away from cars and in the shade of the woods. There are so many great trails in North GA, I have plenty of off road trails to choose from.
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The only downside of the Spe 6Fattie is the weight. For the same cost, you can build a bike that will be at least 1 kg lighter, maybe 2 kg.
The big downside of the CS-M04 is the short travel. Only 100 mm in the rear and 120 mm Fork. Massive difference with the Stumpjumper.
I'd say, go with the Specialized if you need the longer travel. If not, you will benefit from a light bike.
I'm also on the market for my new frame (and will convert my current hardtail into a disk road bike). I don't need 140 mm long travel. It will be either the CS-496 (still a hardtail but proper Plus size, with Boost axle, nice geometry) or the 100 mm travel CS-M04. Both would work for me. I'm tempted to go Full-Sus but it's more expensive and 1kg heavier. Still very tempted...
My real concern with either bike is that none seem to be compatible with double-ring. Even a SRAM 10-42 is not good enough for me (a mix of stupid climb and fast descent). Eagle is the solution but... that's expensive!
EDIT: it looks like the Stumpjumper FSR Comp 6Fattie is 30.8 pounds. You will definitely get a 2 kg lighter bike with the CS-M04 and the same budget (I'd say 2.5 kg lighter is doable - still with same budget as the 6Fattie).
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If I were to build the CS-M04 with all high end components (SRAM Eagle 1x12), I'm looking at around $4,600-$5,000 USD. If I go with a GX drivetrain I can drop the cost down to $3,500 which would be very close to the Specialized cost. After riding the Trek Stache I'm less concerned about weight. I would agree that a carbon 27.5+ build should come in around 28 lbs vs ~30 lbs for an aluminum framed plus bike. It's more work to have the bike weigh a few extra pounds but so far my times are faster on the heavier Stache.
My biggest concern with going carbon is trying to determine if I will like the way the CS-M04 will ride. I need to start looking at the geometry and compare the Chinese frames to some of the branded plus bikes.
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I found a company in Italy that is selling a complete 27.5+ bike using what appears to be the CS-M04 frame that Peter sells.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Olympia_Bullet_27-5_plus.jpg)
The pictures look much better on the Olympia website. http://www.olympiacicli.it/en/models-2016/full-suspended/27-5--plus/bullet (http://www.olympiacicli.it/en/models-2016/full-suspended/27-5--plus/bullet)
I found the bike on Youtube, it also looks good in the video, here is the link: https://youtu.be/Bwy_UICBJ0c
The price in the video shows 4,260 euro, or about $4,750 USD, it looks like they only sell mostly only in Europe. I'm sure I could do their GX build for around $3,500 USD with CarbonSpeed wheels.
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Soooo, as mentioned previously I've been helping my father find a new bike. I was pushing him towards 27.5+, he finally demoed an Ellsworth Epiphany + Alloy (carbon is different geometry all together). He really liked the tires, but kept coming back to liking my Santa Cruz Tall boy LT, so after a ride yesterday morning we went to look at the Santa Cruz Hightower.
Well, within 50 feet in the parking lot it was decided that was the bike. They were doing 20% off, so the Hightower C, was $3600 instead of $4600. He ended up with an XL, vs large which I would have thought.
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Interesting, I rode the SC Hightower and just wasn't very impressed with it after riding the Trek Stache. Maybe I will need to give it another try. Some of the things I like about the Hightower are the SRAM drivetrain, Shimano brakes, BSA bottom bracket, stiff rear triangle.
I was told that SC will be coming out with a 27+ Tallboy C, that might be more in my price range instead of the CC.
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What did you not like about the Hightower? We felt that it had great fit, rode over stuff like a freight train. Pedals well, nice and plush and with 150/135 travel and 27.5+ tires can go over anything...
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(http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy230/325racer/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-07/20160704_122254_zpsrsrujboc.jpg)
I also rode the Rocky Mtn Pipeline, and really liked it also. To me, very similar ride to the Hightower.
(http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy230/325racer/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/20160513_183059_zps9n5ldxrg.jpg)
(http://i794.photobucket.com/albums/yy230/325racer/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-05/20160513_183051_zpsboi2zvzl.jpg)
These were the two bikes I was trying to find a Chiner to match up to.
Problem is both of these are 150F/135r and 150F/130R, with 67deg head angles, Boost, etc. Very hard to find something similar in Chiner options.
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During the demo ride, the Stache was so much fun that it just eclipsed my demo ride of the Hightower. I do like suspension design of the SC bikes, being one piece, that rear triangle is very stiff. If I can find one in that $3,600 price range I may consider it.
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During the demo ride, the Stache was so much fun that it just eclipsed my demo ride of the Hightower. I do like suspension design of the SC bikes, being one piece, that rear triangle is very stiff. If I can find one in that $3,600 price range I may consider it.
I am currently building a Tallboy 3 for my wife in the 29" flavor. I bought the frame and will build it from the frame up. It will come in more than $3,600 but it won't even be close to the $6,500 list price. Once it's done, I'm going to throw my 27.5 wheels with 35mm rims on it with some nice plus tires and see how she likes it. Hopefully she prefers the 29er version for summer use as she won't want to pay for another wheelset.....
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That's a good plan bxcc, she should like the 650B+ wheelset. I'd like to build one of starting with the frame, maybe they have some close out pricing on a Large Hightower frame, I could go that route as well.
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We didn't get a chance to demo one so I hope it all works out. We did take a Transition Smuggler out for a good day of riding and the geo is pretty close to the TB3. I'm a fan of the new short travel slack head angle bikes and it should suit her quite well. She is also a huge fan of my 29+ hardtail so that is sort of why we chose to go the 29er route. If she wants a plus bike, she can take the 29+.
(https://s32.postimg.org/o9f6dnirl/TB3.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/o9f6dnirl/)
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Well, the CS-057 is officially sold. I swapped out the XX1 drivetrain from the 057 with the GX drivetrain from my Trek Stache as the buyer asked if I could reduce the price. I was thinking of doing the swap and putting the XX1 drivetrain on the Stache anyway to make the price of the -057 more attractive to a buyer, anything to help sell a bike I no longer like to ride. So now my Stache 7 is better equipped (mostly) than the Stache 9 that Trek sells.
I've not come across a full suspension Chinese frame that is making me want to build a new bike just yet. The only frame from XMcarbonspeed.com is selling that I was interested in didn't have quite the geometry I wanted. I will keep searching though, the Chinese carbon is such a good deal that it's hard to buy a branded carbon frame these days. I don't want to build a fat bike, however, I am considering a 27.5+ FS of some kind, maybe.
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I'm with you Carbon_Dude. I have reviewed all 27.5+ FS Chiner frames and none fits my need. The closer was the CS-M04 but travel is a bit too short. 120mm would have been ideal...
The CS-496 buys me time to find my ultimate bike (a FS). And I'll use this 496 to jump into 1x. No choice anyway!
Eagle is finally available here in France, I found a "good" deal, but that's not good enough. Still >800€ for the drivetrain (w/o crankset). Too much. I've started to order a mix of GX, X1, X01 and XX1. That way I manage to get a weight in between X01 and XX1 for a cost below 400€. I found a GX shifter for 24€, amazing (the only GX part of my mix because it's cheap w/o real downside).
I plan on a 30T chainring which is really tough for my trails, but if it doesn't do it I have to buy a new crankset (Currently shimano XT 104mm cranks, 30T minimum). I think I just need to harden to the fuck up :D
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I'm with you Carbon_Dude. I have reviewed all 27.5+ FS Chiner frames and none fits my need. The closer was the CS-M04 but travel is a bit too short. 120mm would have been ideal...
The CS-496 buys me time to find my ultimate bike (a FS). And I'll use this 496 to jump into 1x. No choice anyway!
Eagle is finally available here in France, I found a "good" deal, but that's not good enough. Still >800€ for the drivetrain (w/o crankset). Too much. I've started to order a mix of GX, X1, X01 and XX1. That way I manage to get a weight in between X01 and XX1 for a cost below 400€. I found a GX shifter for 24€, amazing (the only GX part of my mix because it's cheap w/o real downside).
I plan on a 30T chainring which is really tough for my trails, but if it doesn't do it I have to buy a new crankset (Currently shimano XT 104mm cranks, 30T minimum). I think I just need to harden to the fuck up :D
When I installed the GX drivetrain on the 057, it didn't shift as well as it did on my Stache. It climbs the cassette just fine but doesn't drop down the cassette as smoothly. I checked the derailleur alignment, hi/low stops, b-screw tension, etc. I also ordered the correct, non-boost spacing, chainring to make sure the chain line is correct. My only thought is maybe the chain length is too short which doesn't make any sense since the chain, distance between crank and axle, and gearing is the same as before.
I may need to check with my friend at the LBS and see what he suggests.
Now that the XX1 is on the Stache, with a new SRAM Eagle 30T ring 8), the smoothness of the XX1 setup over the GX is very noticeable. The trigger shift lever is in a better position, shifting is a little more crisp, and the lighter carbon cranks are more energy efficient. I'd love to ride a new bike with an XX1 Eagle 1x12 setup to compare the latest of what SRAM has to offer.
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I thought I would share my 1x spreadsheet. It covers weight (and cost in France) of all SRAM 1x options + Shimano XT 1x + SRAM 1x12
My selection is the first column, based on cost and weight. I still plan on sub-400€, waiting for some discounts :)
(https://s32.postimg.org/5y0ljgymt/Screen_Shot_2016_07_16_at_09_10_53.png)
By optimizing the selection within GX, X1, X01 and XX1 you can get a cost <X1 for a weight between X01 an XX1. This also shows how cheap Shimano is, and how expensive Eagle is :(
BIG EDIT: My god... I was working on updating the spreadsheet above when I noticed that prices had move a lot. GX and X1 cheaper, X01 and XX1 more expensive. But I also ran into crazy prices for Eagle. I JUST BOUGHT EAGLE!! See yourself
(https://s32.postimg.org/9h4ybkbut/Screen_Shot_2016_07_16_at_10_00_43.png)
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Where did you get that Eagle price? I'm scouting too :)
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The buyer of my -057 came back over today and I resolved the GX shifting issue by adding two links to the chain. Seems the chain tension was just a bit high and the bike just didn't want to shift in the middle cogs. The new owner was really happy with the bike now that it's working perfectly. I got one more last chance to ride the -057, and again thought I was just sitting to high on the bike for my liking. Funny how when you move on to something new, what you had just feels wrong. I guess my tastes have changed quite a bit since 3 years ago when I built the bike.
So, I'm shopping around for a full suspension plus bike and found a deal on a Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp Carbon 6Fattie (that's a mouthful). The LBS near me is selling the bike for $3,100 which is $1,400 off the retail price. Seems Specialized manufactured way more of these 2016 6Fattie Stumpy's than they sold so they are running some hefty discounts. I think Specialized expected the 27.5+ wheel size to catch on even more than it has. They have plenty of Large (white) bikes in stock. I did a pretty extensive demo ride on one at the shop. The owner of the bike shop likes the 6Fattie Carbon Stumpy so much he bought one for himself and is selling off his other bikes. The bike rides really well and would be a good compliment to my Trek Stache.
As much as I wanted to build another Chinese Carbon bike, they just don't have the full suspension, plus size tire, frame options I'm looking for.
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Where did you get that Eagle price? I'm scouting too :)
Ok I did some research...
Here is what they call an upgrade kit: https://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;product=181322;menu=1000,2,16 for 639€
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Hey Carbonazza, you found an even better deal then me on Eagle! I got mine from Starbike.com, they offer free shipping.
Honestly I'm really surprised by those prices. It's a lot cheaper then what I thought it would be. I'm glad I did not pick 1x11, the price difference is just over 200€.
It will be a big change for me switching from 2x9 to 1x12 :)
CD, I'm convinced Stumpjumper 6fattie is an excellent choice!
EDIT: Bike24 price is actually 645€, out of Germany. Still the best price I've seen. I've picked my "upgrade" in red and plan to just change my chainring. My cranks are Shimano XT, 3x9 :D but it is rock solid and decently light (608g w/o chainring). I'm sure the position of the middle ring will be ideal for a Boost setup!
I don't understand prices in the different shops... Bike24 is 250€ cheaper then my French shop on Eagle but 100€ more expensive on the Ultegra group.
I'll take my time the day I want to change my fork for a Pike!
Still browsing through various shops... and found cheaper (still in Germany). 634€ + 10€ shipping.
https://www.bike-components.de/fr/SRAM/X01-Eagle-1x12-fach-Upgrade-Kit-p49688/
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CD, I'm convinced Stumpjumper 6fattie is an excellent choice!
I agree, I placed an order for one. At least it has a carbon frame, so I can continue using my "Carbon_Dude" screen name. I will pick up the bike next Saturday.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Specialized-Stump_6Fattie_2.jpg)
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Upgrade it with carbon rims from China, modify the name to "Chinalized" and you will even be granted access to this forum :D
Just kidding!!!!!
PS: I thought I had dropped a lot of cash this week (about 2000€ for both the road bike and MTB) but you beat me here!
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Upgrade it with carbon rims from China, modify the name to "Chinalized" and you will even be granted access to this forum :D
Just kidding!!!!!
PS: I thought I had dropped a lot of cash this week (about 2000€ for both the road bike and MTB) but you beat me here!
A set of Chinese carbon wheels are on the list, just might wait until next Spring to order them.
I think maybe you still beat me, considering the difference between selling my -057 and buying the new bike is significantly less than 2000€.
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Picked up the Carbon SJ Fattie today. Lots of scattered rain in the area so I won't be hitting the trail until tomorrow morning. However, I did do several adjustments, installed a set of Ergo grips, and my put on my bike computer. The bike feels like it will be a good complimentary ride to the Stache.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/New_bikes-2.jpg)
Not the best picture but look at the difference in tire size between a 27.5"x3.0" and a 29"x3.0" tire. The 29+ is still much higher volume tire than even the 650b+.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/New_bikes-3.jpg)