Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: Sitar_Ned on July 13, 2014, 04:55:25 AM
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So, I was really trying to come up with a way to do this that would show that it was done in a 100% fair manner.. but in reality, it's pretty impossible to prove that on video.. You guys will just have to trust that it was done fairly - I assure you that it was.
That in mind, I just decided to have fun with it.
Happen to have access to this "wheel of fortune" that just so happen to have the exact number of slots on it that there were entries into the contest (which I thought was a pretty insane coincidence) - So I found myself a rather reluctant Vanna White, and put a Chinertown t-shirt on her and spun for a winner.. lol.
The timing of the video is a little off, and there are a few other things that I would have liked to improve upon by shooting the video about a hundred more times... but for the sake of fairness, we had to settle for the first take - not to mention I barely convinced her to do one take ;D so there were no re-takes!
Here we go.. Congrats to the winner!
http://youtu.be/QzsRESSwKxk
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Congrats to the winner !! :'(
Nice work on the wheel BTW Sitar !
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Congrats to the winner !! :'(
My thoughts exactly!
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Yes, congrats to Patrick C!!! You must let us know how you build them up. Also, thank you SN and CD for hosting the contest. And thank you Peter for donating the rims! Since I didn't win I'll be placing my order for a pair of the rims shortly. I Love doing business with Peter and XMIPLAY!!!
Andy. :)
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Congratulations Patrick, I don't hate you at all :P
Thanks to SN, CD and Iplay for the contest.
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Congratulations Patrick C.
Nice performance, SN.
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Hahah, yes, nice show SN! Very creative.
And congrats to Patrick C. (secretly hate you like Sam lol) !!! Carbon hoops will be a great upgrade over those Shimano wheels he's currently rocking:
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Lol.. Thanks, glad you guys like it!
Like I said.. would've loved to be able to get the production quality a little higher but hey.. There's always next contest! ;)
And indeed - Congrats to Patrick C.!! Message me when you see this and we will iron out the details of getting the rims to you as quickly as possible. Like MTNRCKT said, great upgrade over the Shimano hoops!
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Congrats!
Excellent showmanship with the banner, YouTube video and spinning wheel. May I ask who the beautiful lady was and does she grace us with her prescence on this forum? If it's your daughter, forget I said anything! ;D
EDIT: I just rewatched the video in HD. I was so close to winning!
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May I ask who the beautiful lady was and does she grace us with her prescence on this forum? If it's your daughter, forget I said anything! ;D
Gratz Pat C!
Ditto on the pretty, tan skinned girl, with the big smile. I say we give her a sash and a crown and make her the first official "Ms. Chinertown" ;D
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Congrats!
Excellent showmanship with the banner, YouTube video and spinning wheel. May I ask who the beautiful lady was and does she grace us with her prescence on this forum? If it's your daughter, forget I said anything! ;D
EDIT: I just rewatched the video in HD. I was so close to winning!
You were SOOO close... Soon as I saw that I thought.. "Oh, that sucks for Vipassana" lol
Def not my daughter! I've been hanging around on internet forums long enough to know that posting pics of your attractive daughter in a skirt and high heels would be a bad idea! She's also over 21 for those that may be feeling morally conflicted right abut now, lol.
As for who she is.. Just a friend!
@ Oolak - The "Ms. Chinertown" idea is actually pretty hilarious!
EDIT: So I told her about the Ms Chinertown thing and she's all for it, lol.
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Holy crap! Thanks guys- first time I've ever won anything on the internet, if you don't count those Nigerian lotteries.
Not sure what I'll do with them yet, but I will post pics. Since I have another set of rims, I guess that means I need to build another bike :)
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first time I've ever won anything on the internet, if you don't count those Nigerian lotteries.
...I guess that means I need to build another bike :)
;D
I like where your head's at.
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if you don't count those Nigerian lotteries.
Literally lol'd at this.
Message me when you're ready.
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Shaz-bot! 8)
pushing a few keys and scorrlling mouse
makes comment go by by? ? ?
As I was saying Bravo! to the winner; and
Sitar_Ned for a wheel neat idea and of course
the hand that set the notion in motion: whala!
(last contest was free accordion lessons won during intermission of
Gold Finger?)
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Grats!
I like the wheel!
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Thanks guys- I've never built a wheel before, but have wanted to. I'm thinking this is a good reason to go ahead and do it. I'm about 200 lbs/90 kg plus water and riding gear. I don't ride aggressively, but I don't always pick the cleanest line either so durability will be important. Any suggestions on hubs, spokes, etc.? How many spokes should I go with for front and rear?
The other option would be to just have IPlay build them up, but I'd still have the same questions on hubs, spoke count, etc.
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Hey Patrick.. I just started this thread asking about hubs for my weight (same as yours) for a carbon wheelset.. http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,212.0.html
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Hope you don't mind.. I separated your post into it's own thread on the "Components" board.
I'm also interested in hearing people's thoughts on the Novatech hubs, and I'm sure many others are, as well.. giving it it's own thread will yield more replies.
The thread: http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,218.0.html
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Ha! Great video. Congrats to PatC.
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I received the rims today. The main delay was me deciding whether to build them myself or order a full wheel set- I finally decided to try building them myself. Peter shipped the next day, and EMS shipping took 8 days.
The rims weigh 405 and 410 g on my cheap hanging scale. So far the plan is to build them up with DT Swiss 350 hubs and Revolution spokes. After reading a bit, I'm leaning toward getting the hubs in and doing a spoke measurement before ordering a full set of spokes.
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(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac332/patrick_clemensen/IMG_1241_zps8ef90b1a.jpg) (http://s913.photobucket.com/user/patrick_clemensen/media/IMG_1241_zps8ef90b1a.jpg.html)
(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac332/patrick_clemensen/IMG_1242_zpsc58383fc.jpg) (http://s913.photobucket.com/user/patrick_clemensen/media/IMG_1242_zpsc58383fc.jpg.html)
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Nice rims! Looking forward to seeing them being built up.
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The 1" Gorilla tape is almost a perfect fit for these rims.
(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac332/patrick_clemensen/Mobile%20Uploads/photo1_zpsf7dc7589.jpg) (http://s913.photobucket.com/user/patrick_clemensen/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo1_zpsf7dc7589.jpg.html)
The tape is almost exactly the same width as the channel, but since the bottom of the channel isn't flat there is a small gap (~1 mm) on each side.
I got the hubs ordered; should come one day next week.
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Looking at your picture, I had an interesting though for you weight weenies out there. I suppose you could use 28 or 32 individual pieces of Gorilla tape rather than a continuous length of tape to cover the holes. Would be interesting, as I see no reason why it wouldn't work, and save weight :).
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@Carbon_Dude - I once tried that very thing when my weight weenie-dom ran full-on into my neurotic desire for optimization (plus Gorilla Tape's expensive!). Unfortunately, the WTB rims I was using wouldn't set up right. This proved to be tough even with a standard all-the-way-around gorilla tape rimstrip though, and the extra thickness at the bead provided by the contiguous tape was the only way to get tubeless set up to hold air. Neither the rim nor the tire were tubeless-specific, however, so I'd like to see a second running of the experiment. And I just so happen to be in the process of a new build...
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Anyone tried or heard about using silicone sealant, polyurethane foam, or some adequate glue to just plug the holes, instead of the tape?
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To confirm the ERD, I picked up two spokes and nipples for $2 at an REI and did the measurements with the spokes threaded in even with the bottom of the slot in the nipple. I measured an ERD of 596 compared to iplay's 597, so their number is good. Both rims measured the same all the way around (measuring 4 places, or every 45°). DT's spoke calculator calls for 289/291 in the front, and 289/290 in the rear. I ordered all 290 mm to make it easier, since the 1 mm difference should not cause a problem.
I have all the pieces in now, and have started playing with them. I laced up the front to see how it would go- pretty tedious, but not that difficult following the procedure on Sheldon Brown's website http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html . Here it is laced up, but not tensioned at all. Total weight for the front is 730 g; based on the weight of the DT 350 rear hub the rear should weigh about 850 making the set 1580 g.
(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac332/patrick_clemensen/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zpsdc7da2c2.jpg) (http://s913.photobucket.com/user/patrick_clemensen/media/Mobile%20Uploads/photo_zpsdc7da2c2.jpg.html)
The gorilla tape costs $3 for a roll and adds about 20 g, so it really isn't worth trying to futz with individual pieces or plugs for the holes. Somewhere in the mtbr carbon rim thread there are some posts about plugs and problems getting them to seal, so I'd stick with the tape [rimshot].
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You've made some good progress Patrick! I like that you chose DT Swiss 350 hubs, that's what I would have went with also.
Looking forward to you getting the wheels tensioned up and hear how you like them. I will definitely go with Gorilla tape in the future, so much cheaper than Stan's rim tape.
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They are now complete and holding air- the tensioning and truing wasn't difficult, it's just very tedious. I assume it gets faster when you know what you're doing, but right now if I was making wheels to sell I would have to charge Enve's prices :)
I got a Park truing stand, but decided to go by feel and sound for the spoke tension. The only ones that seem super tight are the front wheel, brake side spokes. These seem quite tight and the nipples are a bit hard to turn, but I'm using a tiny spoke wrench off a Crank brothers multi tool so that may be part of the problem. Otherwise, they make a nice twang and sound/feel like all of my machine built wheels.
For dishing and truing, I was able to get the wheel within the tolerances listed in the Barnett manual without much trouble. (The wheel truing section is free online at https://www.bbinstitute.com/dl/dx_demo_chapter_17.pdf ) I used an old set of feeler gauges to confirm how out of round they are. They look very good side to side, but there is a bit of a hop in the front wheel. Barnett's recommends a tolerance of 0.5 mm (0.020") and it is within this, but it is still noticeable when you spin the wheel on a stand.
I got a pair of Rocket Rons, figuring I may as we'll go light and see for myself how they hold up. The RoRos were easy to put on the rims, but they leaked air very badly until I put sealant in even though they are the Evo tubeless ready version. There seemed to be holes all around the sidewall to tread seam- when I rubbed soapy water on them, I could see miniature geysers spraying up. With about 2 oz of Stans in each they sealed up, and so far are holding well.
Weights are as follows-
Front- 730 g
Rear- 840 g
Rocket Ron Evo- 530 and 535 g
Add 45 g to each for 1" wide Gorilla tape and Stans valves
Front with tire and Stans sealant- 1360 g
Rear with tire and Stans sealant- 1495 g
I need to switch over the brake rotors and cassette, and will try to get a ride in this weekend. The weight difference is about a pound and a half compared to my Shimano wheels with Conti X-kings.
(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac332/patrick_clemensen/Mobile%20Uploads/photo4_zpsc66a74df.jpg)
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Awesome work, Patrick! I've always wanted to build my own wheelset but it just seems very intimidating. Good to see you take on the project and follow through.
They look ridiculously sweet, and I can only imagine that cutting a pound and a half off of your wheels will be a huge improvement.
Thanks for the update! Be sure to hit us up with a ride report.. I'm interested to hear about the differences from your old wheelset.
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Looks like a nice set of wheels Patrick!
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I swapped over the brakes and cassette and took the new wheels for a ride today- I intended to go early, but inertia and the threat of rain kept me glued to the couch. Thankfully the thunderstorms held off, so laziness didn't prevent me from riding. Total was about 6.5 miles on tight and rocky/rooty singletrack. When I first rolled out I heard some pops and pings, even though I had tried several steps to stress relieve while building. They still look true, but I have not put them back on the trueing stand yet.
The actual weight difference is 510 g/1.25 lb, and I think it was significant in several spots on the trail. There were a couple of spots on technical climbs where it certainly felt easier to get the front up, or to accelerate over obstacles. Not sure if it was just in my head, but it did feel like they accelerated and climbed with less effort.
(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac332/patrick_clemensen/Mobile%20Uploads/photo2_zps4f00dbca.jpg)
The bad news is that I had a burp or major leak on the front wheel near the end of the ride. I skidded in a sandy spot, and went sideways with the front wheel. Just after this, I could tell the air pressure was too low, and I had to stop and pump it up again. The front wheel had been losing pressure slowly so that may have been a factor, or I may have just lost it all when I rolled it over. After I pumped it back to ~28 psi it rode fine, but I was near the end of the ride anyway and taking it pretty easy. I'm debating taking the tire off and re-taping the rim, to see if that is the cause of the slow leak. I don't have a clue as to where the leak is, but so far this is the only real problem with my new wheels.
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Sometimes adding a bit more liquid sealant will help out on the slow leaks.
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Update on the wheels- they are still doing great, have not even had them back on the truing stand. Unfortunately I can't say the same for the Rocket Rons. They have been great up until now, but yesterday I sliced the sidewall on the front tire. Stan's wouldn't seal it, but I had a tube in the camelback so I didn't have to walk out. By this morning the tube was flat- back to tubeless!
The gorilla tape has little indentations at each spoke hole, but it is holding up fine. The Stan's definitely got under the tape at the edges and on the end, but not enough to cause a problem. Biggest problem is getting all of the dried latex off the rim and tire.
It looks like I should be able to patch the tire, but for now the Conti X-King is back on. It went on the rim very easily, with no levers. Planning to try it this afternoon, to see if I notice any difference with the extra 200 g on the front. I guess I should be happy with getting 6 months from the Schwalbe tire- others seem to shred them much faster. I can't think of a cheaper way to save that weight, so I'll probably put this one back on eventually, and get more RoRos in the future.
I have a superficial scratch on the rear rim- looks like it scraped a rock pretty good when I crashed. It doesn't look like it will cause any problems, but obviously I'll be keeping an eye on it.
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(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac332/patrick_clemensen/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1810_zps60cb2af4.jpg) (http://s913.photobucket.com/user/patrick_clemensen/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1810_zps60cb2af4.jpg.html)
(http://i913.photobucket.com/albums/ac332/patrick_clemensen/Mobile%20Uploads/FullSizeRender_zpsa533d42d.jpg) (http://s913.photobucket.com/user/patrick_clemensen/media/Mobile%20Uploads/FullSizeRender_zpsa533d42d.jpg.html)
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Dude, don't even think twice about that scratch! Those carbon rims will take a ton of abuse and the tiny scratch looks purely cosmetic. As for the Rocket Rons.. Comes with the territory. I've had two sets and both lasted 2-3 months tops and I'm a casual weekend rider. Really light, good traction, but durability doesn't seem to be their strong point. Thanks for the update on the rims. Good to hear they're are performing and holding up well.
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At the Scott and Giant demo days last weekend, the bikes that had Schwalbe Nobby Nic tires had many missing tread blocks and most of the other tread blocks were cracking. Looked to be the worst tires out there for durability and these were on bikes that were barely months old. I didn't notice the tire issues until someone else pointed it out to me, then we looked and every bike that had Nob Nic tires showed the same problem, even the ladies LIV models at the Giant tent. All the bikes were setup tubeless. Then we joked that they were $80 tires (retail).
I've only had a set of Racing Ralph tires and yes I did pay $80/tire for them (long story) and the rear tire didn't even last 6 months. For that money, I would have to think there are other ways to save weight and not sacrifice reliability. I go with a bit heavier tire so I don't need to carry a tube with me. So far the Geax Saguaro tires seem to be a good balance between weight, cost, and durability.
However, if you are happy with the tires and get them at a reasonable price, who am I to say different? Go with what you know.
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I don't think I'd be brave enough to go without a spare tube- I'm not convinced that the Conti tires are idiot proof :). I got the RoRos for $48 from Art's Cyclery- $80 may be a bit too much. I guess I should say I'll get more if I find them on sale again.
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Sorry, I double checked and all the tires that had broken or cracked tread blocks were Schwalbe Nobby Nic tires. I will go back and edit my earlier post.
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Sorry, I double checked and all the tires that had broken or cracked tread blocks were Schwalbe Nobby Nic tires. I will go back and edit my earlier post.
My wife and I have both run Rocket Rons, and have seen the same. Great tires except for durability.
Oh, and the performance line RoRos were one of the most terrifying things I've ever ridden on wet roots and rocks. EVOs are much better but are $$$ and those are the ones where the tread blocks get torn to shreds.