Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: GuitsBoy on February 11, 2020, 09:09:21 AM
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So I pulled the trigger on this frame yesterday - with a couple of unknowns. After coupons and discounts, I pair $604 US all in. The deal seemed too good not to bite.
https://www.dhgate.com/product/2020-new-seraph-per-sell-carbon-fiber-t700/507611131.html
The frame looks to be an update to the FM8 frame, with slightly smaller shock mounting (190-200), and asymmetrical chainstays.
The frame geometry charts dont make much sense to me. The geo table claims a 65.5 HTA, yet one of the diagrams shows 66.5 HTA. The wheelbase seems a bit short as well.
Looking at the TanTan website, they show the following frame, but dont have a model number. This frame looks identical to the new FM10 in pictures, however it claims to use a smaller still shock (185x55). Its geometry seems a bit more believable.
http://tantancycling.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=862
So what will I actually get? Hopefully not coronavirus. With the current situation in china, theyre not answering emails, nor do I expect the frame to ship any time soon. Thats fine, because my current bike (FS27) is doing just fine. I've amassed enough spare parts to build N+1, so Ill be keep the FS27 set up an as xc oriented 29er, and the FM10 will become my new 27.5+ trail bike.
I ordered up a new Manitou Mcleod shock in 200x56 size. If the DH Gate listing geo is correct, thats fine. If the TanTan website geo is more accurate, even better due to the longer TT and wheelbase, so long as I can fit the shock in there. It appears they kept the shock flip chip, so that should take up 10mm of shock, and hopefully I can just hyper extend the additional 5mm. The extra height would be somewhat welcome with the 27.5+ tires. If not, then Ill just add travel spacers to reduce the shock to 195x51, and hope for 140mm travel. I plan to stretch my manitou magnum fork to 150mm by doing an internal mod to reduce the top out spacer (as per a famous manitou tech from new zealand).
Now I ordered the frame in matte black. My current FS27 looks flawless in matte black, but a buddy ordered the same frame from an ebay seller, and his shows all sorts of casting flash and layup imperfections. Since this was purchased from DH gate, I'm worried about the same visual imperfections. If that's the case, I may paint the frame myself. I have an automotive HVLP spray setup and a reasonable amount of DIY experience. But ideally Ill just leave it matte black.
So anyway, this is the start of a new build on an unknown frame. Cool.
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I also noticed that frame recently, and I do like the geo (apart from the inconsistencies you mentioned)...
good luck, I hope they'll restart production soon! I'll be following with great interest!
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Finally.
I will be watching this one with interest.
The one on the TanTan site has different TT dimensions as well as shock size, although reach is the same.
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I just got a response from Lisa at TanTan.
Good day . thanks for your E-mail .
The frame it's same . our website geometry it's right . please confirm our website geometry .
I have asked her to clarify about the shock length, since I already have a 200 mm shock. Presumably, I could make it work with the flip chip and a 5mm travel reducer.
Anyway, nice to get a response, maybe Chinese New Year is coming to an end, though I still dont know how big a concern the outbreak is. I dont mind be patient for safety's sake.
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Updated PDF file appears to show shocks between 185 and 205 will fit. That would be good. Apparently size 21 is not in stock and wont be for some time. I am waiting on a 19.
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Please let us know when it ships.
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Just got word that the frame finally shipped. Unfortunately with the travel bans, it will ship by sea. It's on a literal "slow boat from china". I just hope the shock spacing and mounting work. They confirmed it will work with my 200x56 standard shock, even though the mounting widths appear to be for trunnion shocks. I guess we'll see in a month or so.
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You have been incredibly patient. Current price is showing $642US, is that what you paid or did you get a "pre-sale" special, I can't remember?
Please, lots of pics when you get it including under the bb to see the entry / exit holes.
Good luck.
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It was both "on sale" at DH Gate, and I had a $30 off 300 coupon, so I got it for 600 shipped if I recall.
Ill be sure to take pics and weight before I build it up. They estimate 30 days transit time.
I'm also going to try the SC Hightower clone via the group purchase from Haideli. The price is just too good to pass up. Ill probably pick a frame to keep and sell the one I dont like. The hightower looks a little too new-school geo for me, but who knows, maybe Ill love it. Either way, that one seems to still be in the prototype stage.
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It was both "on sale" at DH Gate, and I had a $30 off 300 coupon, so I got it for 600 shipped if I recall.
Ill be sure to take pics and weight before I build it up. They estimate 30 days transit time.
I'm also going to try the SC Hightower clone via the group purchase from Haideli. The price is just too good to pass up. Ill probably pick a frame to keep and sell the one I dont like. The hightower looks a little too new-school geo for me, but who knows, maybe Ill love it. Either way, that one seems to still be in the prototype stage.
I'm looking at that as well. I'm just waiting for Eddie to come back and tell me how wide a 27.5+ tyre will fit. With similar BB drops it should be ok as a 27.5+ bike as well, assuming they fit.
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I attempted to buy this frame too from DHGate but in an XL. I've heard back that the 21" frame isn't open yet, so I'm waiting to hear what my options are. Meanwhile, its still for sale in the seraph official store on aliexpress and I've reached out to them as well. I'll see what happens, looking forward to more on this thread.
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The container ship carrying my frame just ported in Canada, and will ship to me (Eastern US) via UPS in the next couple days, hopefully. I should have some updates for you guys soon.
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Awesome, thanks mate.
I hope it is good experience for you and not a disappointing one. Fingers crossed it works out and you get what you are expecting.
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Hi, how did it go?
I'm looking into getting this frame soon too. Very interested in your experiences.
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I pulled the trigger on the frame in size L (19"), I think the measurements will still work for me even though I'd prefer an XL. I have no idea when the frame will get here, but hey, that's the fun of it!
I will prob start a build thread but with the momentum here, just wanted to let you know you have a partner in crime.
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I pulled the trigger on the frame in size L (19"), I think the measurements will still work for me even though I'd prefer an XL. I have no idea when the frame will get here, but hey, that's the fun of it!
I will prob start a build thread but with the momentum here, just wanted to let you know you have a partner in crime.
Thanks! I've pulled the trigger too on a 17.5.
Question I have is around the rear shock mounting hardware. Can't see anywhere what size I would need. Do you know?
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For 150mm rear travel they want a 200x57 shock. The frame accepts a trunnion shock, I got a crazy deal on a 205x57.5 so I’m going to run that with a 160mm fork and see what happens. If you google ‘seraph fm10’ the ali express link (first I think) has good and a list of the other shock options for 132-135mm rear travel with the flip chip flipped short
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I'm going for a 150mm front fork, and looking at a 200x57 shock.
I'm having trouble finding out what kind of hardware is required. Does the frame take regular mounted shocks or does it have to be trunnion?
For regular, I can't seem to find any Rockshox mounting hardware with 54mm width.
What kind of deal did you get on your shock?
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It's made to take a trunnion shock, I'm not sure if you can mount a regular shock or not, but if you do, I think the hardware would need to be a bit custom.
I got a new 2018 rockshox deluxe rt3 debonair 205x57.5 for $90. I couldn't say no.
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That's a crazy deal!
Looking at the geo chart for the frame, it looks like it'll take a 200x57. One of the pictures also suggests that the widths are 54mm and 40mm for the mounts. Should be able to find some hardware in those widths.
Wonder if @GuitsBoy can help here given their frame has arrived?
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I'm still waiting for the frame to arrive. Its somewhere between the container ship and UPS depot somewhere in Canada's Pacific NorthWest.
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That's some beautiful country, I hope it doesn't decide to stay.
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That's some beautiful country, I hope it doesn't decide to stay.
LOL! When you put it that way, how could I be upset with the frame taking it's sweet time to get here...
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Any update on frame delivery?
Itching to pull the trigger
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If you have it can you give pictures of underside of bb so we can see entry / exit holes for brake and shifter lines and also tell us what you can work out with the shock mounting hardware?
Also what rear axle did you get?
Thanks heaps.
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.... Still Waiting .....
UPS showed a status of *Held in Warehouse* for a few days, most likely stuck in customs and clearance. There's movement again now. Maybe it will arrive today. Maybe it will arrive July 4. Nobody knows. Frame was ordered Feb 10. Its been a long wait.
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Sorry mate, us badgering you must only make it feel longer.
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Sorry mate, us badgering you must only make it feel longer.
No, no worries at all. Its arrived at the local UPS warehouse. Hopefully being loaded onto a truck right now. Ill post pics the moment the frame arrives. Usually around 5pm EST if its gonna make it here today.
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UPS says it's out for delivery. Counting down the hours. Who wants to place bets on whether I open up a tattered box of carbon splinters or not?
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'll guess you get the frame in good shape, but the box is going to be absolutely trashed.
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¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'll guess you get the frame in good shape, but the box is going to be absolutely trashed.
That sounds about right, but they'll make you sign for it before you open it and because you signed for it, if it is trashed they'll say there is nothing you can do about it as you accepted the package. I usually take photos of the damaged box before I start opening it
Fingers crossed.
This is like Christmas morning
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This is like Christmas morning
Brown Santa (the uniform) has yet to arrive.
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She's here.
Frame was delivered by UPS at 5:33pm EST, and and as of 5:39 I'm writing this post.
The box arrived in the best condition Ive ever had a frame arrive in. A good sign. Well packaged with 1/8 foam and tape, but no cardboard. Regardless, it doesnt look like it bounced around too much.
And now the fun part. The cable exits and entrance are indeed on the bottom bracket and into the chainstays.
The shock appears to be a trunnion mount...... AND a standard mount. Once I fit my shock on Ill be able to confirm, but as far as I can tell, they've included a handy little adapter to allow us to use a standard shock in a trunnion mount. Saves me the hassle of having to fabricate something myself. Awesome. Frame comes with pressed in cups for an integrated tapered headset, though the headset was not included. It did come with a seatpost clamp and rear axle. I ordered two spare derailleur hangers for a few bucks more, nice to see they remembered.
So thats that... Ill post up more once I start swapping parts over and really dig in.
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First minor difficulty. I couldn't pull one of the trunnion bolts out of the plastic shock brace they use for shipping. It just spun and spun. Had to drill through the other side bolt hole and tap it out with a long screwdriver. Not a huge deal, but took a while. If that's my only hurdle, Ill be very pleased.
As for the shock hardware, it comes with two piece hardware on the shaft side (stepped ala manitou style). Then on the air chamber side, it has two spacers so you can use the standard 22mm hardware of your choosing. You dont need need either the 54mm or 40mm hardware kits, though the 40 is probably better than what it comes with. I may also go for a 22mm ABI roller bearing on the air can side. But for now, this is working. Clearance is RAZOR thin with a 200 shock and the flip chip in the 200 position. No room for error. Probably only 2mm clearance before the arch hits the seat tube. But a miss by a mm is as good as a kilometer, to paraphrase the saying from freedom units.
Also, the frame came with TWO axles. Not quite sure why, they seem to be the same.
Moving along.
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Frame comes with pressed in cups for an integrated tapered headset, though the headset was not included. It did come with a seatpost clamp and rear axle. I ordered two spare derailleur hangers for a few bucks more, nice to see they remembered.
Awesome stuff mate. I have been messaging the Seraph store on Aliexpress and they confirmed it comes with axle, seat post clamp and sent me a link to their recommended headset. I couldn't work out why there was no race included, now I understand, assuming of course that they are the same seller under different trading names on two sites.
Also good to hear about the shock hardware, I wasn't game to ask about that because that is something they rarely understand and give clear answers on.
Thanks very much, please post as much as you want, it won't bore us.
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Frame weight was 3185 with the shock installed. Ill weigh the shock next time I pull it, but I assume its somewhere around 300g.
Couple more quick pics. This is with a 200 x 56 shock installed. I dont see how you could possibly squeeze a 205 or 210 length shock in there, I dont think it will fit.
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Clearance is RAZOR thin with a 210 shock and the flip chip in the 210 position. No room for error.
Ruh roh, sounds like my 205 is not going to work here. I may get creative, or just get another shock :(
Pics look great, frame looks beautiful. You're making me antsy for mine to get here! I'm in Boston by the way, not sure where on the east coast you are but if you're close, it'd be fun to compare frames to see how QC is from their factory.
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Clearance is RAZOR thin with a 210 shock and the flip chip in the 210 position. No room for error.
Ruh roh, sounds like my 205 is not going to work here. I may get creative, or just get another shock :(
Pics look great, frame looks beautiful. You're making me antsy for mine to get here! I'm in Boston by the way, not sure where on the east coast you are but if you're close, it'd be fun to compare frames to see how QC is from their factory.
Sorry, I misspoke before. I have a 200x56 shock stuffed in there, and I'm not sure you can fit the 205. I spent too much time in the Hightower Group Purchase thread and got my shocks confused. The FM10 has the 200mm eye to eye.
If you haven't ordered yet, I'm wondering if TanTan could simply drill the air can mounting holes up 5mm for you? Or maybe I'm simply misjudging how much wiggle room there really is. I mean, they did claim 185-205, right? Next time I pull the shock, Ill make a more conscious effort to see if you can squeeze that extra 5mm, but my initial gut reaction is that it probably wont fit.
I'm down on Wrong Island, so its a good 6 hour trip to boston. I occasionally ride upstate NY, but never really in new england. I do have a couple buddies that have houses in NH and are always offering me a chance to ride up there, but thats not necessarily close either. But if I happen to be up your way, Ill shoot you a message.
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No, max shock they say is 200 x 57 "190*50mm / 190*57mm / 200*50mm /200*57mm"
GuitsBoy you must have a 200mm shock in the 200mm position. Could you use offset bushings to get you more clearance to your seat tube? I don't think it's an issue because the minute you put weight on it it will move away from the seat tube. Of course you have to be careful not to move it so much that the other way becomes a problem, tyre hitting seat tube at full compression.
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No, max shock they say is 200 x 57 "190*50mm / 190*57mm / 200*50mm /200*57mm"
Look at the geometry chart, it shows 185-205. Offset bushings probably wont fit since the shock nose is so close to the rear triangle. And even if they did fit, 205 is a trunnion size, isn't it? You could only put offset bushings on one side.
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All that info sounds right. I've got an uncle who does carbon fiber work for sailboats, I'll talk with him about options and see if I can figure something out. Either fill and redrill trunnion mounts 5mm further forward or put something super thin and absorbent where it will hit the seat tube and try to figure out how much force that will apply. I like to tinker hack and build, so I'll have fun with it for sure. Hopefully my adventures don't end up costing more than a new 200x57 shock :(
Guits, thanks again for all your measurements and photos. Keep em coming, I'm living through you!
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Thanks so much for the update.
So will it take a 185mm trunnion shock? I'm confused again because the geometry chart said it would, but the description only mentioned 190-200
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No, max shock they say is 200 x 57 "190*50mm / 190*57mm / 200*50mm /200*57mm"
Look at the geometry chart, it shows 185-205. Offset bushings probably wont fit since the shock nose is so close to the rear triangle. And even if they did fit, 205 is a trunnion size, isn't it? You could only put offset bushings on one side.
I can't see the geo chart on your DHGate link, all I see is the rear triangle, something funky going on with that image as all of the others are the correct size. On the Aliexpress Seraph page it shows 200 as max, on the Tantan page in your original post it lists 185 x 50 and 185 x 57, the geo drawing does say 185 and 205 but the table attached to it only lists 185 and 200mm shocks. I think that 205 is a mistake. If your shock is a 200mm then I don't see a 205 fitting without the brace hitting the seat tube. Pic of the charts and drawing on the Tantan site.
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Going purely by the clearances I see in real life, I'm inclined to agree that 205 is probably a mistake. The 200 is scary tight as it is.
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Looks awesome! I just ordered one of these frames myself and cant wait to get building. I'll be watching your build while I wait for it to arrive.
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Shes all built up, but still needs dialing in. Maybe a shakedown run tomorrow. Most of the parts are obviously well used from my last frame. The Manitou Magnum was stretched from 140 to 153mm travel. Drivetrain is all new except for the crankset and a worn out absoluteblack oval that desperately needs replacement. Have a Wheels-Mfg thread together BB to keep from developing any creaks. Wheels are nextie i45 carbon hoops on sram 900 hubs. Brakes are simano zee with 203/180 hope rotors. All around solid bike. Ive been riding a big split in travel (140/100) for so long, this feels really weird to me right now. Let me know if you guys want any detailed / close up pics of any specific areas, and Ill snap a few tomorrow.
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Damn that was quick, and it looks great.
I wouldn't worry about how close the 200 is, as soon as you put any weight on it, the brace moves away from the seat post. How close is the rubber to the other side of the seat tube when the shock is bottomed out?
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Thanks. The tire has a good inch, or maybe 7/8 if I really jammed it into the bottom out bumper. But I'm running 27.5 plus tires, it would be a half inch closer with 29ers. The only reason I worry about the spacing at 200mm is rebound over jumps or drops. I sure don't want it to make contact. I just hope that too out bumper doesn't have much give.
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DANGER DANGER DANGER!!!!!
If you have a 200mm shock, Hold off on riding this frame until this gets straightened out. The nose of the shock rubs the seat stay arch at 3/4 to full compression. Its broken through the paint and starting to show fibers. And this was just from test rides. Emailing them to see what they say. Probably not a great idea to ride this frame as it is, at least not hard. Well, crap. This sucks.
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Damn that is not good. Hopefully they'll get a solution sorted for you reasonably quickly. Makes you question how they could not be aware of this sort of thing during the "testing" process.
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Ah man, that's terrible. Hope you can get it sorted.
Sounds 190 might be the sweet spot. Mind sharing some more pics from different angles?
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I may be crazy, but looking at the flip chip, do you have it set to the larger position? From the picture TanTan sent me, it looked like the flip supported 200 or 210.
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I may be crazy, but looking at the flip chip, do you have it set to the larger position? From the picture TanTan sent me, it looked like the flip supported 200 or 210.
Can you share that picture arrkaye?
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Yes, ofc.
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I may be crazy, but looking at the flip chip, do you have it set to the larger position? From the picture TanTan sent me, it looked like the flip supported 200 or 210.
I believe the pic of the 200/210 flip chip is from the FM08 frame, not the FM10. The FM10 flip chip is unlabeled. The 200 is the max length shock that will fit, any longer and the seat stay arch will contact the seat tube.
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Took a nice easy first ride this afternoon. Only 8 miles or so, some mild trail with a few rollers and under 12 inch drops. Bike did well. While teh geometry feels very similar to my previous frame, the 150/150 split is going to take some getting used to. Even though its balanced, it doesnt feel evenly matched front and rear. Some of it is mental, and some may require some air pressure, rebound and compression adjustments. Anyway, the shock contact hasn't caused a catastrophic failure yet, so thats nice.
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I wonder if it would be a good idea to grind out a little space in the frame and/or grind down the end of the shock just a little give it a bit more clearance? Not ideal but probably better than cracking it.
My frame is about to ship but now I am thinking about canceling the order last minute. Major disappointment.
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If for whatever reason they don't plan to replace the seat stay, I would plan to Dremel out some clearance and then epoxy the fibers. But really, I shouldn't have to.
If you plan to run a 200mm shock, I would absolutely contact them about it before it ships. Hopefully I'm just one of the first off the assembly line, maybe they've already caught the issue.
I'm thinking they'll simply add a channel to the arch in the future. Still have no idea how they missed this, it seems a pretty obvious omission. Maybe they did all their testing with a 190 shock.
That said, the rest of the frame fit and finish is top notch. It feels solid. And I really love the clever mounting hardware that allows for both trunnion and standard shocks. So far It's a great frame with one glaring defect. I hope they fix it going forward.
But yeah, it does make you wonder about what kind of testing the frames went through, if any. My thinking is they put it on a stress test machine, but who knows how it mounts to the frame.
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I also wonder if it's related to the shock itself. Maybe it was tested with a Rockshox and there's some sort of difference on the Manitou..
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Thanks aarkaye for the pic, I think that is the typical type of mistake that their sales people make, send you wrong pics, wrong dimensions, no that won't fit but it does and vica versa.
I don't think a 190 will work. I think that is another mistake on that listing. Seraph shows it is 185. If you had a 190mm or 195mm shock you could make them work by milling your own "flip chip" with just the one hole.
As for the rubbing I think that is probably a shock they didn't test. Fox are round at the end but flat across, the McCleod looks like it is curved to match the hardware but also curved from side to side.
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That's interesting because Spcycle sell what looks to be the same frame but have it listed at 185/50-55. From the picture, it does look like the metal swing join is different so I assumed Seraph made their own design to support different shock lengths.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_BPP77a
https://a.aliexpress.com/_BTKo8s
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That's interesting because Spcycle sell what looks to be the same frame but have it listed at 185/50-55. From the picture, it does look like the metal swing join is different so I assumed Seraph made their own design to support different shock lengths.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_BPP77a
https://a.aliexpress.com/_BTKo8s
That's why I keep saying 185 and 200 but it looks like issues with the 200 and you are right about the spycycle, the swing arm is different, recessed like it is the same but only one hole drilled.
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After looking at some of the images it looks like they might have removed the second hole and limited it to 185mm. They probably discovered the issue and this was an easy fix. But they still haven't updated all of the documentation.
Since it looks like this order will be getting canceled, can anyone recommend a good option that will accept a 200mm shock?
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The manitou does have a rounded profile as opposed to teh fox's squared off nose, however I dont think theres much difference in profile. Certainly not more than a mm or two, but I guess that could mean a considerable difference. Still, I think this is a design flaw. They provided a nice recess to give the shock nose plenty of clearance in the fully extended position, yet they didnt account for clearance as the suspension cycles, and the nose rolls upwards. Should be an easy fix with a revised arch profile. And a total non issue if you plan to use the shock in the smaller flip chip position.
The flip chip looks to be 10mm offset, not 15mm, assuming my eyeballs are properly calibrated. If 200mm fits as it does in my frame, 190 would fit the same in the other position. That said, I would think both 185 and 195 would fit just fine in the 190 and 200 positions respectively, however they would effectively be already 5mm into their stroke, so the bike would ride a little bit lower. The 185x55 shock at full compression in the smaller position should finish only 3mm past a 200x57 shock, so depending on the rear tire, I could definitely see it working.
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Since it looks like this order will be getting canceled, can anyone recommend a good option that will accept a 200mm shock?
While I totally understand this reaction, maybe you can hold on just a bit longer to see if they make it right? I mean, the frame is otherwise very nice. I really am pleased with it. But it would probably be a good idea to voice your concern to make it clear consumers want them to fix this mistake.
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I am in touch with them now, they said they will have an answer for me Monday. If they simply eliminated the one hole to only accept a 185mm shock that might be a deal breaker for me since I really wanted something with a bit more travel. I am even debating if its worth trying to modify it to make it work. I will see wait to see what they say.
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I think 185x55 will be the same travel as 200x57. But its always nice to have options for different shocks, especially if you already bought a 200mm one.
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I do already have the 200mm shock. I would be willing to try 185x55 but dont see a ton of 185mm shocks available... seems like 200, 190, 165 are the popular sizes.
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Since it looks like this order will be getting canceled, can anyone recommend a good option that will accept a 200mm shock?
While I totally understand this reaction, maybe you can hold on just a bit longer to see if they make it right? I mean, the frame is otherwise very nice. I really am pleased with it. But it would probably be a good idea to voice your concern to make it clear consumers want them to fix this mistake.
I'll reach out to Lisa and see if she's seen this or knows what's going on. Mine is still waiting to be shipped so there might be time to address this issue.
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I have just contacted them again seeking clarification on shock sizes, pointing out that three different listings and websites all have different shock sizes. Here is the response.
Good afternoon, please refer to the frame geometry information
Rear shock 185*50mm / 185*55mm / 190*50mm /200*57mm
So it would appear in the last couple of days the geo drawing on the TanTan site has changed from 200 x 50 to 190 x 50. I would imagine that if a 200 x 57 fits (well almost) then a 200 x 50 would also be ok but with the lesser 132mm rear travel. Also if what guitsboy is saying about the holes only being about 10 mil apart then there is no reason why a 190 wouldn't work as well. It would be nice to have some clarity, and also confidence, in what they are saying.
Any response yet GuitsBoy?
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I've pointed my rep at Seraph towards this thread. She says she's looking into a solution. Hopefully they come up with something suitable.
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I also got a response. The agent I'm talking to just pointed me towards some of their documentation that says it fits a 200mm shock. I'm not convinced its fixed. Still not sure if I should cancel or give it a shot.
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So after a couple of short messages (through DH gate) asking me for pictures of the shock and size (box label, I guess) I finally got a real response:
They apologized for the problem, and said they'll be sending me two new pieces; The seat stay, as well as the main shock bracket/rocker. I replied asking for clarification that the pieces have been redesigned to ensure the problem does not happen again, but I have to assume the only reason they would send the new rocker would be due to a change in design.
The message was light on details, but the response time was relatively quick. It seems they have an agreeable solution within the first business day, so I'm guessing they already knew about the problem. Anyone using a 190mm shock wouldn't be the wiser, and its possible some 200mm shocks wouldn't experience it either. So its understandable that they would wait until people contacted them with the problem.
Unfortunately they still have to ship by sea / surface transportation, which means another 4 to 5 weeks before the frame is fixed up. I asked if it was safe to continue riding the bike as it is, but I can't imagine they'll say yes.
All in all, I feel they're handling the issue well. That's pretty big, considering warranty / customer service is always the biggest unknown when ordering direct from asian manufacturers. I'll update if/when I hear anything more.
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Apart for the time in transport that is good news, lets hope that it is resolved with the new pieces.
Here is a copy of my exchange with Rose yesterday.
Me: Hello, I am very confused and hope you can help me. This listing says 190 x 50, 190 x 57, 200 x 50 and 200 x 57 shock can be used. On your Factory website http://tantancycling.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=862 it says it uses a 185 50 or 185 x 55 shock but the geometry drawing shows 185 and 205 and the description under the drawing says 185 x 50, 185 x 57, 190 x 50 and 200 x 57. I have now seen this post on Chinertown http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,2876.msg21737.html#msg21737 and post #48 it looks like the 200 x 57mm shock does not fit without rubbing on the seat stay brace. Can you please confirm what shock actually fits in this frame? I hope you can understand what I am asking. Thank you very much for your help.
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Yesterday 16:12
Rose: Good afternoon, please refer to the frame geometry information
Rear shock 185*50mm / 185*55mm / 190*50mm /200*57mm
Yesterday 16:28
Thank you. Can you explain why it says different things on three different places?
The official website only filled in two dimensions, we have modified it, thank you for your reminder.
We will solve the problems in the article, don't worry
But please carefully check the geometry of the frame, it is 200*57mm, the geometry does not show 205
Excellent, thank you. Can you tell me what is happening with the Chinertown link that shows a 200 x 57 McLeod shock rubbing on the seat stay brace?
Also, the Autodesk drawing on the official Tantan website has 185 to the top position and 205 to the lower position. I would take a screen shot and show you but I don't know how to send you pictures
Added picture, see below
Aha, I found out that the geometric figures we see are not the same
I know it is a new frame but I'm sure you can understand why it is so confusing. Thank you.
Yesterday 16:49
This question, I will tell you after I get a reply
Yesterday 16:59
Ok, thank you very much.
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Hi everybody, I am having a question here regarding the fork length. I didn't see TanTan indicating the correct theoretical fork length. At least I didn't find it. When they say that the frame travel is 150mm, I assume I can't use a fork with 160mm which has a bit a too long overall length? I guess it would destroy the geometrie and the way how it feels and how the bike behaves while ridding, isn't?
Maybe you guys who bought this frame already may help me? What is the fork length of the fork you chose? Do you think it would work with a fox 36 grip 2 29wheel 160mm Fork?
I would really like to buy this frame but I am a bit insecure with these figures, also with the shock length, after I read the previous posts... :-\
Thank you very much!
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Hi everybody, I am having a question here regarding the fork length. I didn't see TanTan indicating the correct theoretical fork length. At least I didn't find it. When they say that the frame travel is 150mm, I assume I can't use a fork with 160mm which has a bit a too long overall length? I guess it would destroy the geometrie and the way how it feels and how the bike behaves while ridding, isn't?
Maybe you guys who bought this frame already may help me? What is the fork length of the fork you chose? Do you think it would work with a fox 36 grip 2 29wheel 160mm Fork?
I would really like to buy this frame but I am a bit insecure with these figures, also with the shock length, after I read the previous posts... :-\
Thank you very much!
I just took a guesstimate that a common fork would be the Fox 34 29er 150mm travel. That fork has an axle-to-crown measurement of 557. I stretched my 27.5+ Manitou Mattoc out to 150mm travel which gave me 559mm axle-to-crown which is pretty close to the fox. Your Fox 36 has the same axle to crown as the similarly sized F34, so at 160mm travel you have 567mm axle to crown. IMO thats not too bad, and within reasonable proximity to the intended fork size. Between the two, I'd always rather go slightly overforked than under forked. Certainly the 160 shouldn't slacken out the head tube angle to the point of it being dangerous. If it were me, I'd run that fork without hesitation.
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Received another message from Tan Tan. The parts have been designed and are in production, heading to paint shortly, then shipped as soon as possible. They confirmed the new parts have been redesigned for proper clearances. Old parts can be discarded.
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I also got a similar response. The rep said they did make updates to the design and the issue is fixed. So I am moving forward with the order. It will probably be at least a month before it arrives but I will update when I receive it. I'm excited to get this thing built!
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That's great news. Mine is yet to ship so I'm just waiting for confirmation they will include the updated pieces on mine.
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Hi everybody, I am having a question here regarding the fork length. I didn't see TanTan indicating the correct theoretical fork length. At least I didn't find it. When they say that the frame travel is 150mm, I assume I can't use a fork with 160mm which has a bit a too long overall length? I guess it would destroy the geometrie and the way how it feels and how the bike behaves while ridding, isn't?
Maybe you guys who bought this frame already may help me? What is the fork length of the fork you chose? Do you think it would work with a fox 36 grip 2 29wheel 160mm Fork?
I would really like to buy this frame but I am a bit insecure with these figures, also with the shock length, after I read the previous posts... :-\
Thank you very much!
I just took a guesstimate that a common fork would be the Fox 34 29er 150mm travel. That fork has an axle-to-crown measurement of 557. I stretched my 27.5+ Manitou Mattoc out to 150mm travel which gave me 559mm axle-to-crown which is pretty close to the fox. Your Fox 36 has the same axle to crown as the similarly sized F34, so at 160mm travel you have 567mm axle to crown. IMO thats not too bad, and within reasonable proximity to the intended fork size. Between the two, I'd always rather go slightly overforked than under forked. Certainly the 160 shouldn't slacken out the head tube angle to the point of it being dangerous. If it were me, I'd run that fork without hesitation.
Thanks for the response. I am most probably going for this idea!
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I heard back from Lisa at Tan Tan via Alibaba messaging. I pointed her to this thread and asked if she'd seen this issue. Her response was:
yes . I have check . We have changed the mold of the connecting rod . now frame have not this problem . don't worry .
I'm going to continue with my order and see if anything is actually different.
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By the way guys, the Flip Chip offset is actually 13mm. Not 10. Not 15. Its 13. Not sure the reasoning, but its close to a half inch. Rear travel is not impeded by anything other than the tire hitting the seat tube. IMO a 185 shock should fit just fine, and you probably wont hit the tire to the seat tube at full compression. A 195 should would probably also work in the 200 position, as long as the tire clears the seat tube, it will just sit a little lower. More questionable is the 185 size. With the 13mm offset, the 185 shock is actually going to put the seat stay arch 2mm closer to the seat tube than my 200mm shock, and clearance was already tight.
But all this goes away since nobody knows what the new casting for the rocker piece looks like. It might have more clearance all the way around.
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Possibly because the two holes, when located in their required position, don't sit in a straight line with each other relative to the line of shock travel so the straight line dimension is actually to two different points on an arc, not two different point along the same line. See on the geo diagram that has both dimensions on it, the line showing what is being measured aren't parallel to each other. I don't know if that is enough to make up for the 2mm but it will take some of it.
If you have your shock out then you could lay your bike on it's side and measure the 185 from eye to eye and see what happens.
Either way, good to hear they have got a resolution. Hopefully you weren't the one that brought this to their attention otherwise they have done the rework very, very quickly and I wonder if they actually did the required testing on the altered parts.
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I have a temporary fix for my clearance issues while I wait for the new parts to arrive, though I'm not going to publicly post what it is. But anyway, I got another ride in on the new frame last night. This was a 13 mile ride, the first half is just grueling relentless climbs, and the second half is fast, weaving trees, and some tech. the climbs were a bit challenging, and as the miles went on, I developed some ghost shifting. Towards the end of the first half's climbs, I noticed some tire rub and finally stopped to check things out. The pivot at the rear axle drive side had completely come loose. The bolts were just floating, completely disconnected. The seat stay and chain stay were completely separated. I cant believe I didnt lose the bolt. Anyway, go over and loctite all your pivot bolts. Its not enough just to snug them up. Put fresh loctite in there just to be sure.
After fixing the pivot issue, the bike was climbing and shifting much much better, and still felt supple on the downhills. Ripping through the trees really felt amazing. It felt like I had a TON more traction than my previous FS27 frame. Really leaning the bike over and pushing into turns the bike didn't ever feel like it wanted to break loose. Pedaling on flat and mild uphills I didnt notice any appreciable bob with the shock set to pedal platform level #2 of 4. I was very happy with how it handles fast moving singletrack. Uphills were a bit tougher, but I really need to go back and revisit those climbs now that the pivot and shifting are fixed. I also have a few more pedal strikes compared to my last frame, but always on compression events. I may need a touch more air in the chamber to ride a little higher. My sag was closer to 35% which is a bit much for me, though It felt great on the downhills.
All in all, it was a good ride, and I finally felt quite happy with the frame.
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I have a temporary fix for my clearance issues while I wait for the new parts to arrive, though I'm not going to publicly post what it is. But anyway, I got another ride in on the new frame last night. This was a 13 mile ride, the first half is just grueling relentless climbs, and the second half is fast, weaving trees, and some tech. the climbs were a bit challenging, and as the miles went on, I developed some ghost shifting. Towards the end of the first half's climbs, I noticed some tire rub and finally stopped to check things out. The pivot at the rear axle drive side had completely come loose. The bolts were just floating, completely disconnected. The seat stay and chain stay were completely separated. I cant believe I didnt lose the bolt. Anyway, go over and loctite all your pivot bolts. Its not enough just to snug them up. Put fresh loctite in there just to be sure.
After fixing the pivot issue, the bike was climbing and shifting much much better, and still felt supple on the downhills. Ripping through the trees really felt amazing. It felt like I had a TON more traction than my previous FS27 frame. Really leaning the bike over and pushing into turns the bike didn't ever feel like it wanted to break loose. Pedaling on flat and mild uphills I didnt notice any appreciable bob with the shock set to pedal platform level #2 of 4. I was very happy with how it handles fast moving singletrack. Uphills were a bit tougher, but I really need to go back and revisit those climbs now that the pivot and shifting are fixed. I also have a few more pedal strikes compared to my last frame, but always on compression events. I may need a touch more air in the chamber to ride a little higher. My sag was closer to 35% which is a bit much for me, though It felt great on the downhills.
All in all, it was a good ride, and I finally felt quite happy with the frame.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I actually ordered the frame, but they canceled my order right away, as I chose online bank transfer as payment method. But unfortunately I figured this out after the amount was already discount from my bank account only..... The money came back automatically though. But I lost more than a week, so I have to place the order again....and then choose another payment option. They also didn't mention that they can't ship to my country, so I have to pay an extra fee to ship with DHL to Switzerland...
So, all a bit weird.
I was thinking to replace all the pivot bearings right away, then as you suggest, loctite the screws (red or blue loctite? Blue should be strong enough?). I don't believe they use proper bearings, and good quality bearings used in the machining industry are not so expensive, so I think it's worth to do it right away when assembling the bike.
Would you mind sharing the bearing sizes? I hope these are some standard bearings? I would like to order them in the meantime, so that I got then already when the frame finally arrives here...
Thank you very much!
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The rear pivots are 698RS bearings. Those are the only ones I know of since Ive already been in there. I did manage to lose a spacer between the chainstay and seatstay, so I had to rig something up with washers I had on hand. Also, I should note that these bearings are epixied in, or otherwise using some bearing retaining compound. Mine did come loose on both sides, so I pressed it back in using loctite 609 (bearing retaining compound). Ive only had a couple short rides, but so far its holding. A couple quirks, but no big deal. Anyway, Ill try to get the rest of the bearing numbers for you next time I'm in there. But I would think those rear pivot bearings take the biggest beating, so start there.
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Am very tempted with this. Just found an AlieExpress seller that has it under $1k Aus with free delivery. I have an old RP23 that will fit and possibly a Monarch RCT3+ Debonair depending on what happens with a frame warranty claim.
Hey Guitsboy, I just realised you're on MTBR and posted some cracking shots in the star gazers club thread.
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Thanks Emu. That reminds me, I gotta update that thread, I have quite a few more shots to post from the last few months.
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Still waiting for those stella pics. ;)
Amended frame part
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Nice, did the seller provide that image? You dont have the part in hand, do you? Either way looks good. I havent been riding much, but when I do, I'm still riding the frame now that its developed some clearance. I also swapped out the 40mm shock hardware with an enduro roller bearing setup. The 54mm side already has bearings.
And I updated the sky watchers thread on mtbr for ya...
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Haven't ordered yet, I'm waiting to see if I'll have a shock from a denied Felt warranty claim or if I'll need the shock to build up the boys bike again.
Yes, that is a pic from a seller.
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I bought 29er wheels and a fox 34 27.5+ fork for the frame. I finalized my order on June 15th and am awaiting shipping.
Trying to figure out what rear shock to purchase now. Not sure if I go 185/55 or 200/57 for better tire clearance.
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I bought 29er wheels and a fox 34 27.5+ fork for the frame. I finalized my order on June 15th and am awaiting shipping.
Trying to figure out what rear shock to purchase now. Not sure if I go 185/55 or 200/57 for better tire clearance.
I've been waffling on the same question. I think I'm going to stick with 27.5+ wheels, and my fork can run 150m or 160mm, so I'm debating the 200/57 low flip chip with a 160mm fork (a bit more slack but slightly higher BB), or 185/55 high flip chip with a 150mm fork (for the geometry around which the bike was designed). I'm leaning 185/55 but I'm open to opinion/discussion.
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What about a 190? Or would that make it sit too low?
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I think at 190 you'd have to run the flip chip low to fit. With the 275ers, I think it'd end up with more pedal strike, though I can't wait to get my hands on my frame and play with the measurements, rather than theory-crafting in my basement.
Quick edit - you may be able to run the flip chip high with a 190, but that would probably limit your overall travel by about 20-30mm
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Replacement parts shipped out this morning.
Been frequenting the local dirt jumps with my son and friends trying to get a little skills building session on the new frame. Finally getting it reliable and dialed in. Frame is comfortably handling 2-3 ft jumps and drops to flat with 230+ ride weight. Ghost shifting and clicking under load are completely gone after setting the rear pivot bearings in place, and carefully loc-titing the bolts. The rear no longer feels vague or loose under load or over chop / roots. I knew these issues would go away once i got everything to stay tight, so I didn't mention them before.
Next task is working on the suspension to maintain suppleness over chop, yet improve the efficiency. On longer rides, going from my old 140/100 frame to 150/150 now, this bike feels much bigger and heavier to lug around. Some extra care setting up the suspension should go a long way towards closing the gap.
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Good to hear it's dialing in well, and thanks for the updates, I'm dying for my frame to ship.
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After doing everything I could to get my stretched manitou magnum to perform well, it developed some heavy stiction and wasn't reaching max extension. After playing mad scientist in the garage, I finally managed to deform a bushing to the point the fork no longer slides smoothly. I've ordered up a cheap replacement lowers for it, but decided to upgrade to a new manitou mezzer anyway. A bit expensive, its a really nice fork and has a lot going for it. The 37 mm stanchions are nice and stiff and hold up much better to my 230+ lb ride weight. Its internally adjustable from 140 to 180 mm travel. While it doesn't have quite as much clearance as the magnum, it will still let me run either 29x2.6 or 27.5x3 tires. The fork also rides very high in its travel, and has a more appropriate 565mm axle to crown a 150 travel. Pedal strikes have been greatly reduced for sure. The seals still need to break in a bit more, but its already fairly supple. Its very well damped and I experience ZERO pedal bob in the saddle, and only mild bob mashing out of the saddle. I'm hoping some more tweaks will further reduce that. Anyway, so far so good.
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really interested in the mezzer pro myself, just ordered a p9 and am debating between the mezzer, lyrik ultimate, or zeb ultimate. Had a mattoc pro 2 before and loved it.
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really interested in the mezzer pro myself, just ordered a p9 and am debating between the mezzer, lyrik ultimate, or zeb ultimate. Had a mattoc pro 2 before and loved it.
How much do you weigh? The mezzer seems to be better suited towards medium and heavier riders. It may be overdamped for light weighs. But then again, the mattoc might be a better option in that case anyway. The mezzer really comes alive at speed through chop. My initial thoughts is that its a little underwhelming at low speeds navigating tech compared to the mattoc/magnum, but really comes alive once speed comes up above 8 to 10 mph. I may be able to dial in some better low speed characteristics as I dial in the IRT and compression. But headed downhill over roots or chop, the thing feels incredible.
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I'm quite a heavy rider at around 105kg, so this trend of thicker stanchions is probably a great thing for me, problem with Manitou is the resale, had awful trouble selling on my last bike with the mattocs as all people want is RS or fox
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So, more bad news with the frame. Had another failure I noticed yesterday. The very clever through bolt that allows mounting a standard shock instead of trunnion shock, well, it snapped in half, and bent. Luckily I was able to hammer it out, and seems no damage to the frame or bearings. I'm a heavy dude at 235+ lbs ride weight (105 kg ish?) but this happened at moderately tame riding, XC or light trail style stuff. I heard a pop going over a log rollover and inspected the carbon, but didn't find any problems. I rode another hour without issue, then rode the streets home. It wasnt until the next day I notice the bolt was a bit proud, and couldn't be screwed back together.
Anyway, I have a fairly simple and inexpensive fix in place right now. A stainless steel 5/16 x 3 inch (or 3-1/2" cut down a bit) bolt fits snugly through the 8mm shock hardware, but is too loose in the 10mm frame bearings. I found some loose chainring bolts from old style 104 BCD chainrings fit the 10mm bearing just fine, and have a shoulder to keep them located. I simply needed to drill them out 5/16 to slide the bolt through. Anyway, there's the tiniest little bit of play, but nothing I'm concerned about, so Ill continue riding this way until TanTan can come up with a suitable replacement. And if they cant, Ill just come up with a more elegant version of this stainless bolt. It works well enough.
So there you go. Another ding. I feel like they're using their customers as their QC department. At least I got a really good deal, and tend to enjoy wrenching and tinkering on the bike.
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So ideally this frame wants a trunnion mount rear shock to avoid this type of thing happening.
Thanks for keeping us informed.
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So ideally this frame wants a trunnion mount rear shock to avoid this type of thing happening.
Thanks for keeping us informed.
Yeah, I would think a trunnion shock would pretty well eliminate the issue.
Using the hardware they provided, you had 8x22mm shock hardware sandwiched between two 16mm spacers. That means youre supporting the middle 22mm over a span of 54mm with nothing but that thin 8mm alloy bolt.
Forgoing the hardware they provide, you can now use proper 8x54mm shock hardware (Though I did have to file it down some). That means the 12.7mm OD x 8mm ID tube spans the whole 54mm length and adds strength. I could probably get away with a regular sex bolt instead of that heavy stainless bolt. A standard sex bolt would certainly look a lot more appropriate on the bike. If anyone wanted to do this, all they would have to do is fabricate the chainring bolt adapters like I did, and alloy ones should be easy enough to drill out and grind down to proper thickness. Ten minutes work. Quite honestly, if I were to replace the hex bolt with a sex bolt for aesthetics alone, I would consider this a permanent fix.
Hopefully TanTan will come up with a better solution, preferably one that allows use of proper 8x54mm hardware for support. I'm sure theyll be getting lots of complaints about this soon, if they havent already. I cant be the only one to break this.
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Good to hear it's dialing in well, and thanks for the updates, I'm dying for my frame to ship.
Well at least I have not bought a shock yet. My frame should have been shipped by now according to Tantan, but I haven't received confirmation. Was really hoping to at least use the bike in Lake Tahoe mid August for a trip.
Put a 94 rockhopper together with a cheap for fork and have been hitting the jump trails, :P just so far away for the frame.
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Interesting. Based on what you're saying though, I'm not surprised that bolt snapped. I wonder if you could find a stronger bolt to work with, or have some custom spacers turned that work like the torque caps in the rockshox forks. I picked up a used 185x55 because I'm not confident that my 205x57.5, seems like the trunnion is the way to go. Still waiting on mine to ship, they asked for an extension because it'll be the first XL size... I'm excited, and nervous, but mostly excited :)
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They contacted me and said the bolt shouldnt have snapped, and that its a strong part. They will be sending me TWO replacement bolts. Cool of them, but I dont trust them to hold any better. I realize that its just too long of a span to support with that bolt. In my opinion, the fix is to use a proper 8x54 shock mount hardware, that way the strong tube spans the whole 54mm width. I could drill (or ream) the tube out from 8mm to 10mm and it would still be relatively strong, and I would be able to use the replacement bolt. But honestly, I think the strongest configuration is what Ive already got now. I just need to dress it up with a clean looking button head sex bolt. Wow, that sounds dirty.
Another option I thought of, other than fabricating those adapters out of chainring bolts, is to simply replace the pressed in bearings with ones with an 8mm inner race. Then you could use the 8mm bolt directly without any sort of adapter. That would be clean. I'm currently using 5/16 washers, and they are a perfect tight fit, acting as a dust shield. Maybe Ill pick some up in black oxide, or maybe ill just paint them.
All in all, I think I'll consider what Ive done to be an upgrade / mod and leave it in place, rather than risk what could be a catastrophic failure. If anyone wants to play it safe, I would certainly suggest going with the trunnion shock given the choice. But if you already have a standard shock you want to use, dont shy away from the frame just because of this issue. Modding it to use 8x54 hardware is trivially easy to do.
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With all the reaming and sex bolting I don't know how you have energy left to ride ;D
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With all the reaming and sex bolting I don't know how you have energy left to ride ;D
I've never heard of a sex bolt before this conversation, is any relation to Usan?
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With all the reaming and sex bolting I don't know how you have energy left to ride ;D
Ahh yes, It's a gift.
I've never heard of a sex bolt before this conversation, is any relation to Usan?
I honestly cant figure out what the real name is for this bolt, but Ive heard them referred to as sex bolts in the past, so I keep using that. I'm sure youre familiar with it. The female half has a button head, smooth 8mm shaft with a m6 threaded bore. And the other side is a more standard m6 button head cap screw. The male side screws into the female side.
And now to take an ice cold shower....
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I've never heard of a sex bolt before this conversation, is any relation to Usan?
I honestly cant figure out what the real name is for this bolt, but Ive heard them referred to as sex bolts in the past, so I keep using that. I'm sure youre familiar with it. The female half has a button head, smooth 8mm shaft with a m6 threaded bore. And the other side is a more standard m6 button head cap screw. The male side screws into the female side.
And now to take an ice cold shower....
It would appear google agrees with you. I have seen them, and used them , but never had to order them so was unfamiliar with their name. https://www.google.com/search?q=sex+bolts&rlz=1C1GCEB_enAU847AU847&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwidvtmjxtjqAhUPyzgGHcbXCC8Q_AUoAXoECA4QAw&biw=1920&bih=937
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It would be nice if there was some way of getting in touch with S***T from the UK that left the review on this page and let him know that Seraph have a new rear triangle. I wonder when he ordered the frame?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000405521351.html?spm=a2g01.12616982.tplist001.214.3c11601cazw3cT&gps-id=5950812&scm=1007.23961.125497.0&scm_id=1007.23961.125497.0&scm-url=1007.23961.125497.0&pvid=a4c1897d-6e43-4f36-a050-9ce8eafea6cc
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Guitsboy, can you take a photo looking down at the chainline from the front with the chain in your big cog. The review here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32890086557.html?spm=a2g0o.store_home.productList_1025045650.subject_2 is saying that he is having trouble keeping on the cassette, hard to be sure given the broken english. The pic looks like the chainring is a long way out from the frame. Do you have any issues with running through all of the gears?
Thanks
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I didnt find the chainline to be particularly bad with this frame. I dont have issues keeping the chain in teh big cog, though i dont use teh granny gear all that much. I had just a touch of ghost shifting that I finally ironed out. It was partly due to loose pivots, partly due to b-limit, partly due to barrell adjuster, partly due to cassette break in, etc. A few more miles and things seem to be holding much better. I will say, the second to biggest gear seems to be a touch noisy, but doesnt jump out of gear at all. Ill try to grab a pic, but for the most part, I dont find chainline to be an issue at all.
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Thanks mate, not sure why that pic didn't post but here it is again, I hope.
Also, did you get the boost version or non-boost version? I need wheels but have a non boost fork already that I could use. I am wondering if it is only the rear triangle that is different, sharing a common BB width, and that is his problem.
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BB shell width is 92mm, spot on. Boost or not, the BB shell should be the same. The chainring offset should match the rear spacing. For Sram its 3mm inboard offset for boost, or 6mm offset for 12x142. For what its worth, I do have boost. The chainline is certainly a sharp angle, but I wouldn't call it any worse than any other bike Ive owned.
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Cheers mate, thanks for that.
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Guits, did you keep a list of the bearings you replaced or re-seated? I'm considering just buying a handful of frame bearings either to swap out immediately, or to have on hand in case I see some issue with the stock ones. I'm assuming they're pretty cheap..
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Have you tried running it with a 6mm offset ring to improve the chainline?
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It would be nice if there was some way of getting in touch with S***T from the UK that left the review on this page and let him know that Seraph have a new rear triangle. I wonder when he ordered the frame?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000405521351.html?spm=a2g01.12616982.tplist001.214.3c11601cazw3cT&gps-id=5950812&scm=1007.23961.125497.0&scm_id=1007.23961.125497.0&scm-url=1007.23961.125497.0&pvid=a4c1897d-6e43-4f36-a050-9ce8eafea6cc
Hi! I just found this site.
Yeah i'm having some teething problems with the frame. Like one of the posts above my front bolt for the rear shock also snapped! Doesn't fill you with confidence that the carbon itself is solid, but it appears to be....i hope.
I've ordered a titanium m10x80 bolt and nut, 3mm spacers, a rubber o-ring and washer from ebay. Also ordered 10x50 mounting kit from: https://www.tftuned.com/tf-tuned-mount-kit-127mm-m10/p2938
I also had to hand make a aluminium adapter and drill the holes in the correct location to stop the frame rubbing.
Fingers crossed that'll be it!
Edit: i ordered the frame on the 5th of march 2020
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Hi! I just found this site.
Yeah i'm having some teething problems with the frame. Like one of the posts above my front bolt for the rear shock also snapped! Doesn't fill you with confidence that the carbon itself is solid, but it appears to be....i hope.
I've ordered a titanium m10x80 bolt and nut, 3mm spacers, a rubber o-ring and washer from ebay. Also ordered 10x50 mounting kit from: https://www.tftuned.com/tf-tuned-mount-kit-127mm-m10/p2938
I also had to hand make a aluminium adapter and drill the holes in the correct location to stop the frame rubbing.
Fingers crossed that'll be it!
Edit: i ordered the frame on the 5th of march 2020
Welcome, glad to hear from you. Your fix seems to be a pretty good workaround. Sucks that we have to modify things ourselves to get some added reliability, but small price in the grand scheme of things... The carbon itself appears to be pretty stout.
I currently have two fixes for the broken shock bolt:
#1, more of a preventitive measure, keeps the existing stock bolt in place. Instead of using spacers, I ordered a length of 1/2" OD .049 wall stainless tube for ten bucks on ebay. The inner diameter is a perfect fit to the 10mm shaft. I cut a section of tube to 54mm in length. Since the hardware now spans nearly the entire width from bearing to bearing, the bolt should be much less prone to breaking at the thinner center section. The shear strength is on the 10mm section of the bolt, not the center 8mm section. Youll need to use the trunnion mount inner washers on either side of the tube.
#2 is similar to the fix mentioned earlier, and will help while you're waiting for replacement parts to arrive, assuming youve already broken the bolt. I'm using off the shelf 54x8mm mounting hardware, 8mm ID 2mm thick spacers, 8mm x 70mm sex bolt (or 5/16" x 3" bolt cut to length). And use drilled out alloy chainring bolts to fit the 8mm bolt in the 10mm inner bearing race.
I'm still using the second option while I wait for the warranty replacement bolts, then I'll move to option 1 purely for aesthetics. I think both options are considerably stronger than the factory bolt, and neither is particularly expensive.
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Hi Skelt, welcome.
Now that you know about it have you contacted the seller to get a replacement rear triangle / rocker arms? They should be able to send you correct stuff.
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Hi Skelt, welcome.
Now that you know about it have you contacted the seller to get a replacement rear triangle / rocker arms? They should be able to send you correct stuff.
I've sent them a message, should i get it for free?
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Hey Guitsboy, interesting solution on the stainless steel tube. Do you have a link to the eBay listing?
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Hi Skelt, welcome.
Now that you know about it have you contacted the seller to get a replacement rear triangle / rocker arms? They should be able to send you correct stuff.
I've sent them a message, should i get it for free?
Yes, it's covered by the warranty they offer. Any refusal on their part would certainly be grounds for a dispute/escalation from your credit card.
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Hi Skelt, yes I would be expecting it for free. Please let us know what they say, I am looking the same place you bought from and two others, on is Seraph factory store, as opposed to official store, and the other is Chic bike. Not much difference in price but where you bought says they don't include rear axle or seat clamp but the factory store says they do. Chic bike includes both and headset but their price includes postage which means I'll be paying tax on postage, to Aus.
Did yours come with rear axle and set collar or did you have to order them?
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Hey Guitsboy, interesting solution on the stainless steel tube. Do you have a link to the eBay listing?
Sure, this is the one I bought. You can buy different lengths. I figured id buy it long enough to have a few tries at it.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/316-Stainless-Steel-Tube-1-2-OD-x-402-ID-x-049-Wall-x-9-50-Length/283685015510
Youll need to deburr the ID once you cut it, I just used a plain old file on a 45 angle around the inside edge. Once I did that, the broken factory bolt was a perfect fit. Its a nice tight fit through the shock bushing, and the RockShock outer mounting hardware (the parts that locate the shock) hide the stainless steel tube completely, giving you a nice all black look.
Ill take pics of it all once I have the replacement bolts.
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Hi Skelt, yes I would be expecting it for free. Please let us know what they say, I am looking the same place you bought from and two others, on is Seraph factory store, as opposed to official store, and the other is Chic bike. Not much difference in price but where you bought says they don't include rear axle or seat clamp but the factory store says they do. Chic bike includes both and headset but their price includes postage which means I'll be paying tax on postage, to Aus.
Did yours come with rear axle and set collar or did you have to order them?
It came with the rear axle and headset. I almost got this one (looks the same): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000473711753.html
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Hi Skelt, yes I would be expecting it for free. Please let us know what they say, I am looking the same place you bought from and two others, on is Seraph factory store, as opposed to official store, and the other is Chic bike. Not much difference in price but where you bought says they don't include rear axle or seat clamp but the factory store says they do. Chic bike includes both and headset but their price includes postage which means I'll be paying tax on postage, to Aus.
Did yours come with rear axle and set collar or did you have to order them?
It came with the rear axle and headset. I almost got this one (looks the same): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000473711753.html
Thanks mate. I've just noticed another difference, the one from the "factory" store has aluminium races bonded into the headtube, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000406391102.html?spm=2114.12010615.8148356.56.623a5c1f2WC7j5 looking at Guitsboy's first photo in this thread it looks like his does as well. The "official" store, chic bike and the one you just linked don't. Did yours come with aluminium races bonded in?
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Mine did indeed come with the aluminum races bonded in place, however it did not come with the headset itself. I did get a seat post clamp, and TWO rear axles, for some reason. I paid a little extra for two spare derailleur hangers, so maybe they threw in an axle with those? Dont know.
Skelt, sorry, I had assumed you had already contacted warranty support to see what they can do for you. So far my experience has been generally positive with them, but shipping times are particularly painful due to the global pandemic. For that reason, I'm doing my best to self support through DIY fixes. Good luck to you.
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Mine has arrived, and built up yesterday. Few minor niggles here and there with the paint and brake mounts, but mostly quite an easy build. Waiting on a new dropper as the Pro Koryak 150mm was too long at 467mm.
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Thanks guys.
That looks good arrkaye, may I ask where you ordered it from and does it have the aluminium races bonded into the headtube?
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Sure, it was from the Seraph Factory Store on AliExpress. The lady I spoke to said it was the same as the Seraph Official Store, I was speaking to them both. Mine does have the cups bonded in.
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Sure, it was from the Seraph Factory Store on AliExpress. The lady I spoke to said it was the same as the Seraph Official Store, I was speaking to them both. Mine does have the cups bonded in.
Funny you say that, I have also been speaking to both. The "official" store are adamant I don't get the axle or the seat collar and the pictures on their website don't show the aluminium. I sent them a message a couple of days ago asking about something else and got a message back from the "factory" store so I presumed they were the same supplier with 2 different "shop fronts" on Aliexpress but they are telling me different things.
Thanks.
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arrkaye: did you get it painted? Is that a dark blue gray with matte or satin finish? Was the seller able to provide that shock or did you buy it elsewhere? What model out of curiosity?
Let us know how it rides once you get some time on it and what kind of terrain. Looks nice!
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Sure! It's a RS Monarch RT3 200x57. Bought locally.
Paint is a custom purple in matte. Still waiting on the seatpost so no rides yet.
I asked the store to include the axle and collar and they kindly did.
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Hi arrkaye,
how much does a paintjob cost additionally? :)
In general, i see that Tan Tan and Seraph both claim a D-Type Front Derailleur can be mounted. But i don't see a mount für that purpose on the pictures. Is there some kind of adapter included or do you think it's wrong information?
And, if you choose to use 135 mm rear travel... does it still require a 150 mm fork or a shorter one? 150 mm is too much for my purpose, i think. I am merely thinking about building a ~130 mm Trailbike, but didn't see a fitting frame so far. Maybe take the FM10 and some lighter components?
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Paint was like an extra £60.
It looks like it had the mount for a regular braze-on derailleur - no adapter in the box.
Typically you can go +/- 10mm on the front travel without too much trouble. Any more and you start affecting the head angle too much and placing a stress on the head tube that the frame wasn't designed for. If you want less travel, I'd probably recommend a different frame - there are a few lighter ones designed for shorter travel forks.
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Yes, i am totally aware that the FM10 has more travel and is heavier than what i think of. But, by now the only suitable frame i found is the ICAN P1, wich i dont like too much. So i'm thinking about alternatives ;) Maybe i will go for 150 mm instead of 130. Better having without needing something, instead of needing and not having it.
(in case i opt for a trailbike, it will be a budget build anyway... so weight cannot be my fist concern)
60 Bucks for a colour other than black sonds like a nice option. I'll keep that in mind.
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Yes, i am totally aware that the FM10 has more travel and is heavier than what i think of. But, by now the only suitable frame i found is the ICAN P1, wich i dont like too much. So i'm thinking about alternatives ;) Maybe i will go for 150 mm instead of 130. Better having without needing something, instead of needing and not having it.
(in case i opt for a trailbike, it will be a budget build anyway... so weight cannot be my fist concern)
60 Bucks for a colour other than black sonds like a nice option. I'll keep that in mind.
to get 150mm i think you need 27.5 wheels, i've got 29ers and i'm using a 200x51mm shock, if i put in 200x57 i think the rear wheel would hit the seatpost, but i might be wrong.
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Received my frame yesterday and have been putting it together as I wait for BB and to pickup a shock tomorrow (200x51). I got 29er wheels and I was not sure what length shock to get (vs. 185), will switch to 27.5. Wheel does not hit seat post with a continental mountain king in 2.3.
They almost sent me the FM356 until I asked about derailleur hangers. Finish on the frame for me is 'eh' with areas around the frame I have had to file/sand down. Largest issue I have is the dropper post not going in all the way due to a ring of CF that was left which I have almost smoothed out. I was considering ordering a hardtail from them for myself and a friend, but after this process I'll have to pass on it.
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Received my frame yesterday...
Finish on the frame for me is 'eh' with areas around the frame I have had to file/sand down. Largest issue I have is the dropper post not going in all the way due to a ring of CF that was left which I have almost smoothed out. I was considering ordering a hardtail from them for myself and a friend, but after this process I'll have to pass on it.
Bike looks nice. Yeah, I'll agree that the finish might have been just a touch short of the quality other china carbon frames have arrived in. Especially the replacement parts they sent. In fact, I decided to keep my original modified parts on the bike until I have a reason to swap out. The finish one side of the metal bracket is completely rough and unfinished, as if someone surfaced that edge with a grinder by hand. I chalk it up to them trying to catch up with the backlog after the coronavirus shutdown. Maybe others manufacturers are experiencing similar issues as well.
Anyway, couple the lackluster finish with the lack of QC, and the broken parts and all the DIY work this frame has required, and it may well be my last TanTan frame too. Still, the proof is in the pudding, and if the carbon is strong and frame works well with the modifications, I'll still be quite pleased with the purchase. My bikes dont stay perfect and unscratched for very long. Only time will tell how this frame fares.
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Got pictures of the sort of thing you are talking about?
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pic of the build, im pretty happy with it now
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That was quick, 2 hours of me riding and shock bolt snapped. The frame was nice, I was having an issue with my chain tension and the derailleur not expanded XT 12sp.
Also with a dnm 36rc 200mm it hits the part they adjusted, emailing them right now about it and a replacement bolt (will that even last 1hr longer?).
Really had plans to buy a HT frame for me and a FS for a friend.
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That sucks. I've just messaged and my rep said they're replacing the bolt with a stainless steel version. I've asked for a replacement as I really don't want to have it fail and potentially cause a crash. Let's see what they say.
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pic of the build, im pretty happy with it now
Skelt, what is that white thing strapped to the frame?
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That was quick, 2 hours of me riding and shock bolt snapped. The frame was nice, I was having an issue with my chain tension and the derailleur not expanded XT 12sp.
Also with a dnm 36rc 200mm it hits the part they adjusted, emailing them right now about it and a replacement bolt (will that even last 1hr longer?).
Really had plans to buy a HT frame for me and a FS for a friend.
Was it the top bolt or the one down near the linkage?
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That was quick, 2 hours of me riding and shock bolt snapped. The frame was nice, I was having an issue with my chain tension and the derailleur not expanded XT 12sp.
Also with a dnm 36rc 200mm it hits the part they adjusted, emailing them right now about it and a replacement bolt (will that even last 1hr longer?).
Really had plans to buy a HT frame for me and a FS for a friend.
Read my previous posts, Ive run into both issues.
For the shock clearance, use a dremel and sanding disk and remove some carbon where the nose of the shock rubs. Then smear on tiny but of 2-part epoxy to seal the fibers. The seat stays are plenty strong enough, and the arch portion is thick carbon. Lots to work with, it seems.
As for the bolt, you have a couple different choices. The option that will get you up and running today is to run to the hardware store and get a 5/16 x 3" bolt and nyloc nut for a couple bucks. Youll need to find some old chainring bolts from your parts box, or visit a local bike shop. Alloy bolts are better because you need to drill the threads out. Then you can use the female chainring bolts as an adapter so the 5/6 bolt will fit snugly in the 10mm bearings ID.
http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,2876.msg22209.html#msg22209
There are some other more elegant solutions, but will require ordering special parts. The 5/16 bolt will get you back up and running immediately, even if it will look a little funny for a while.
Good luck.
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pic of the build, im pretty happy with it now
Skelt, what is that white thing strapped to the frame?
haha its for attaching the dog, to stop the line getting caught up in the front wheel.
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just received a replacement bolt, its exactly as it was before, but just realised that the 10x50 mounting kit i ordered (https://www.tftuned.com/tf-tuned-mount-kit-127mm-m10/p2938) fits perfectly and will fix my issue as it spreads the weight/impact over the thicker end parts of the bolt rather than the centre.
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Hi, using that hardware, which bolt will you use?
Can you share a picture of exactly how it's setup?
TanTan promised to send a steel bolt once it's manufactured, but I don't fancy waiting for them to sort that out.
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just received a replacement bolt, its exactly as it was before, but just realised that the 10x50 mounting kit i ordered (https://www.tftuned.com/tf-tuned-mount-kit-127mm-m10/p2938) fits perfectly and will fix my issue as it spreads the weight/impact over the thicker end parts of the bolt rather than the centre.
Yes, sounds like a good fix. That's basically the same as what I did using the 1/2" OD .049" wall thickness tubing. But I cut my tube 54mm long and it still required the two small trunnion mount spacers. You'll need to shim it by an additional 4mm somehow.
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Ah, I understand
Have ordered one of those mounting kits and some of these washers
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352860992216
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Ah, I understand
Have ordered one of those mounting kits and some of these washers
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352860992216
i used two 3mm m10 spacers on each side to bring it up to the 56mm gap: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Nylon-Plastic-Spacers-Standoff-Washer-All-Sizes-M2-to-M16-CHEAPEST/401879787794
edit: you might also want to buy the m8x40 kit for the other side
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Ah, I understand
Have ordered one of those mounting kits and some of these washers
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/352860992216
i used two 3mm m10 spacers on each side to bring it up to the 56mm gap: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-Nylon-Plastic-Spacers-Standoff-Washer-All-Sizes-M2-to-M16-CHEAPEST/401879787794
edit: you might also want to buy the m8x40 kit for the other side
Isn't it a 54mm gap? That's what the specs say.
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Isn't it a 54mm gap? That's what the specs say.
The bearings are very sligtly wider than 54mm. I would believe 56 could be correct, maybe even 58. To fit a 54mm trunnion shock in there you need to use the two 10mm ID washers that come with the hardware kit. I recall hem being closer to 2mm thick, but thats going by memory. Nevertheless, the distance from bearing to bearing is greater than 54 mm.
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i was able to load the bearings on the frame with a 56mm gap. All tightened and greased up, the bolt now rotates on the bearings. Before i never had this.
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Finally received my frame and got it all assembled. Overall it looks great. However, they still didn't really fix the shock interference issue if you are running a 200mm shock. They added a bit of clearance that helps when the shock is full extended, but as it compresses and the linkage rotates it still hits. I used a Grinder to remove a small amount of material to add the needed clearance. I think it should be good now. I will update after getting some miles on it.
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Looks good MX72.
Which shock are you using?
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Thanks! Its the DNM AOY-36RC 200mm.
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Hi! I received the frame as well, and I finally had time to assemble the bike. I am quite happy with the result. The frame color I chose came out cool too, this was a bit a risk I took. I had some minor things I had to fix when I assembled it, such as shorten the spacer bushings for the rear shock on a small lathe, so that I could get my DVO shock fitting in. I also removed all the bolts from the frame and added a bit of the blue loctite to make sure they won't get loose. And I used a torque wrench, because some screws were obviously loose! So, here it is, check the pic of my build attached! If you have any questions, feel free to ask.
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Thanks! Its the DNM AOY-36RC 200mm.
I'd be interested to hear what you think of it when you get some time on it.
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MX72 and chinerrider, both your bikes look great! Good luck with 'em! Just watch out for loosening bolts, and keep the loctite close by!
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@GuitsBoy: Yeah, that's why disassembled the entire frame and used loctite screwlock and the correct torque to assemble it. I should be safe now....
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Hi everyone, seriously considering this frame. Just wanted to ask about sizing.
Im just over 6ft & 32" inseam, would the large be suitable for me? The frame geometry looks bigger than some of the eqivalent sizies of name brand geometry.
Whats everyone else going for?
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Damn, should have ordered last night. $36A discount now only $17A, delivery has gone from $100A to $140A and price has gone from $760A to $780A.
I really have to get off the bloody fence.
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Hi everyone, seriously considering this frame. Just wanted to ask about sizing.
Im just over 6ft & 32" inseam, would the large be suitable for me? The frame geometry looks bigger than some of the eqivalent sizies of name brand geometry.
Whats everyone else going for?
I'm 6'0", 220 lbs and 32" inseam and find the Large fits well.
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OK, I am a little confused and am hoping someone here can clarify something for me. If this frame is 27.5 plus / 29er why is there a 27.5 and 29er version listed as options? Is there any difference between the two frames, if I want to be running 27.5 plus rubber should I be ordering the 29er version or the 27.5 version? I have sent the factory store a question but I'm not sure they will understand / be able to explain what I am trying to clarify.
I had always presumed that 27.5 plus and 29er were the same frames given the similar outer tyre diameter but 27.5 (non plus) would have a smaller rear triangle and possibly smaller bb drop.
I have to commit now because I just agreed to a new take off Fox DPX2 185 x 55 trunnion mount for $400A ($286 uSD)
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Does anyone know what the changes to the new 2021 version are?
http://www.tantancycling.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=895
Hopefully they might have added some more clearance for 200mm shocks.
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I don't expect any change, that was posted over three months ago.
Also, after a fair bit of clarification, I did get an answer out of them re the different options, no difference between the 27.5 and the 29 option.
Hello again. Can you please tell me what the difference between the 27.5 148 x 12 and 29er 148 x 12 frame actually is? I want to run 27.5 plus tyres. Are they actually the same frame, does the 27.5 frame take plus tyres or do I need to order the 29er version? Thank you.
Good morning, if you want to use 27.5 plus tyres, then you need to choose 27.5er frame
27.5er 148X12mm = 27.5er boost
15:19
So what dimensions are different from the 29er frame?
16:03
27.5*2.4 /27.5*2.6/37.5*2.8
29*2.35 tire
16:09
27.5*2.4 /27.5*2.6/27.5*2.8
16:54
Yes I know that. You list for sale both a 29 frame and 27.5 frame. I am asking you what dimensions on the two frames are different? Are chain stay or seat stay lengths different? Is the BB drop different? If they are identical frames why do you give both a 27.5 and 29 option?
17:07
The difference is that 142X12mm and 148X12mmaxle and tires can be installed in different sizes
Yes but you list both a 148mm x 12 27.5 AND a 148mm x 12 29er. What is the actual difference between these two frames? Will a 29er wheel fit in the 27.5 plus frame?
17:17
27.5er frame can use 27.5er*2.4/2.6/2.8 tires
29er frame can only use 29er*2.35 tire
29er wheels are not suitable for 27.5 plus frame
So that must mean that the two frames have different dimensions. What dimensions are different?
17:24
I have asked my boss and he said that the size is universal
Therefore, the tire sizes of the 27.5er and 29er frames are both 27.5*2.4 /2.6/2.8 & 29*2.35
If you choose a 27.5er 148*12mm frame, you can use up to 27.5er*2.8 tires
If you choose 29er 148*12mm, you can use up to 29er*2.35 tires
29er wheels are fit in the 27.5 plus frame
Thank you. I thought that was the case as it is with many of the big brand frames. I was just confused with the two listings. Thank you for checking.
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My last frame was a FS27, which was identical to the fs29 except it came in boost spacing, while the FS29 was standard 12x142. Perhaps something similar here? Looking at my frame with the 27.5x3 stuffed in there, it sure looks like it would fit 29er wheels as long as you didnt go too big on the tire.
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Thanks! Its the DNM AOY-36RC 200mm.
How do you find that shock performs? Compared to a a rockshox?
And pardon my ignorance, bit if I already have a Rockshox Deluxe 205x55 can I limit it to 200 so it fits?
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My last frame was a FS27, which was identical to the fs29 except it came in boost spacing, while the FS29 was standard 12x142. Perhaps something similar here? Looking at my frame with the 27.5x3 stuffed in there, it sure looks like it would fit 29er wheels as long as you didnt go too big on the tire.
I wanted to clarify because my intention is to run 27.5 plus but I wanted the choice to run 29er if I don't like the plus.
What 3.0s are you running and do you have much clearance to the stays?
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What 3.0s are you running and do you have much clearance to the stays?
I'm running 2.8 nobby nics on nextie jungle fox 52 rims (45mm inner width) and the tires measure out at 2.980" when fully stretched at 18 psi. There is just shy of 1/4 inch clearance to the stays. Slightly more than my previous frame.
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Can anyone confirm if a 185x55 trunnion Rockshox will fit and not cause problems?
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Can anyone confirm if a 185x55 trunnion Rockshox will fit and not cause problems?
The 55mm might be a problem. I measured 54mm on the frame. You might be able to mount it, as it is a bit wider at the area where screws go thru... but I wasn't able to measure it there.
I bought a 52.5mm DVO Suspension Topaz T3Air Trunnion, and this one fits perfectly with two distance washers. Maybe it was the better choice size wise...
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The 55mm might be a problem. I measured 54mm on the frame. You might be able to mount it, as it is a bit wider at the area where screws go thru... but I wasn't able to measure it there.
I bought a 52.5mm DVO Suspension Topaz T3Air Trunnion, and this one fits perfectly with two distance washers. Maybe it was the better choice size wise...
Chinerrider the way I read your post it sounds like you think 55mm is the width of the shock at the mount. 55mm refers to the useable shaft length or stroke.
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Can anyone confirm if a 185x55 trunnion Rockshox will fit and not cause problems?
northup had trouble with is 185 x 55 RS shock in his thread. Here is the relevant post http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,2929.msg22759.html#msg22759
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Can anyone confirm if a 185x55 trunnion Rockshox will fit and not cause problems?
185x55 trunnion Rockshox will NOT fit.
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Hola desde España, he pedido mi cuadro a ver si no tengo problema en el basculante trasero, he visto y leido vuestros post, gracias por ayudar de esa manera tan práctica.en 25 dias estara conmigo, espero.....aqui os mando una foto
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Hola desde España, he pedido mi cuadro a ver si no tengo problema en el basculante trasero, he visto y leido vuestros post, gracias por ayudar de esa manera tan práctica.en 25 dias estara conmigo, espero.....aqui os mando una foto
Just to save everyone from google translating.
"Hello from Spain, I have asked my frame to see if I have no problem in the rear swingarm, I have seen and read your post, thank you for helping in such a practical way. In 25 days it will be with me, I hope ..... here I send you a picture"
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This seems to be a great frame. I have a few question for someone who already has the frame.
How much is the customs import tax at the moment?
Did anyone check if the geometry numbers are correct? In the pictures here the head angle looks steeper, I am looking for a 21 inch- it it really 480mm reach?
Thanks!
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So I have ordered this frame, but it doesnt look like the rear shock rubbing issue has been resolved. Can someone confirm if this has been resolved and what is the correct size shock? Is it 185x55 Fox DPX2 Trunnion?
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No love? :-[
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So I have ordered this frame, but it doesnt look like the rear shock rubbing issue has been resolved. Can someone confirm if this has been resolved and what is the correct size shock? Is it 185x55 Fox DPX2 Trunnion?
Sorry mate, I haven't been here much of late. I have just built up this bike and am using a 2019 DPX2 185 55 without any issues. I'm running Duroc 50's with 27.5 x 2.8 Maxxis Rekon+ on it. Plenty of room between shock and arm throughout entire compression range and plenty of space between rubber and back of seat tube at full compression.
I'll be doing a build report soon but I'll post it in the 27.5+ forum as that is what I am running the bike as.
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Mine took just under 30 days by ship. It's the only reliable way right now.
Great frame so far but only in the drive way. :'(
Two issues:
1) The cable grommets won't stay in the frame. I figure some good silicone sealant will take care of it.
2) The brake cable tunnel on the chainstay is not large enough for Shimano BH90 hydraulic hose.
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Mine took just under 30 days by ship. It's the only reliable way right now.
Great frame so far but only in the drive way. :'(
Two issues:
1) The cable grommets won't stay in the frame. I figure some good silicone sealant will take care of it.
2) The brake cable tunnel on the chainstay is not large enough for Shimano BH90 hydraulic hose.
What grommets? I don't think I got any so will now have to check. I had planned on using silicon to hold them in place if they moved around too much. Two very short rides so far, about 20km total, with minimal issues.
My BH90 fit without issue, sorry to hear you are having trouble.
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$10 for the headset & $12 for the axle.
X-Fusion O2 RCX 190/51mm shock
This spacer kit (1/2X1/2-Inch 23.0x8-mm) worked perfectly with the stainless bolt:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0030HOTIO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0030HOTIO/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Had to scrape some glue from the brake mount threads. Also had to buy two M6x16 bolts from Lowes. There's not enough thread depth to support a longer bolt.
Made payment on 11/8/2020. Box was handed to shipping 11/21/2020. I received a well packed frame on 12/17/2020.
Is this an upgraded axle from earlier ones that have broken?
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This is my finished bike and I hope you like it. I also leave a link to the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQeMpudm4D0&feature=youtu.be
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Muy buena bici para un muy buen precio, enhorabuena! ;)
Do you have a component list with some aliexpress/eBay links?
Are you happy of the stem? Is it light?
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Pedals: €11.47 20% de DESCUENTO|ZTTO pedales ultraligeros para bicicleta de montaña CNC, aleación de aluminio, rodamientos antideslizantes huecos, pieza de bicicleta para ciclismo|Pedal de bicicleta| - AliExpress
chainguide : €4.2 50% de DESCUENTO|ZTTO Guía para cadena de bicicleta de montaña, sistema 1X, Colector de caída de manivela de cadena única, ISCG 03 ISCG 05 BB montura 7075 CNC|Cadena de bicicleta| - AliExpress
seat: €15.37 48% de DESCUENTO|EC90 sillín de bicicleta ultraligero de PU, asiento cómodo y transpirable, componentes de silla carreras|Sillín de bicicleta| - AliExpress
Funda cable: €1.45 36% de DESCUENTO|Cables de cambio de Cable de bicicleta de 3m equipo de vivienda de bicicleta de montaña desplazamiento en bicicleta Cable de bicicleta herramientas de Ciclismo de alambre|Cables para el hogar| - AliExpress
implemets brake: €3.06 |Freno de disco de bicicleta de montaña, rotores delanteros y traseros, 180mm, 203mm, adaptador de pinza IS/PM, adaptador de soporte de poste de aleación de aluminio, accesorio para bicicleta|Freno de bicicleta| - AliExpress
brake disc 4 pistons: €70.58 12% de DESCUENTO|SHIMANO freno de disco hidráulico DEORE M6000, M6100, M6120, MT420, BR BL M6100, M6120, DEORE, freno izquierdo y derecho|shimano deore|disc brakes mtbdisc brake - AliExpress
dropper post: €78.28 7% de DESCUENTO|Satori Gotero para tija de sillín de bicicleta, altura ajustable, 150mm de viaje, 30,9/31,6mm x 460mm, cable interno, mando a distancia|Tija de sillín de bicicleta| - AliExpress
chain: €27.4 41% de DESCUENTO|ZTTO Cadena de 12 velocidades para bicicleta de montaña, cadena de 12 velocidades dorada, 12 s, eagle Golden, x1 x12, 1x12, Conector de sistema incluido, eslabones de 126L|Cadena de bicicleta| - AliExpress
swift: €27.66 35% de DESCUENTO|LTWOO Conjunto de piezas de freno AT12 para bicicleta de montaña, palanca de cambio de 12 velocidades, cambio de marchas trasero, cassette de carreras, 52T, YBN, cadena dorada para Shimano|Desviador de bicicleta| - AliExpress
fork: €147.75 50% de DESCUENTO|ZTTO horquilla ajustable para bicicletas de montaña, cerradura de suspensión de horquilla ajustable, 32 RL BOOST 140mm Air 29 29er 27,5 + Inch 3,0 29 + Plus 110mm 110*15|Horquilla de bicicleta| - AliExpress
centerloks: €4.53 32% de DESCUENTO|ZRACE Centerlock a 6 agujero adaptador Centro de bloqueo de 6 agujero de disco de freno Centro cerradura para 6 Bolt SM RTAD05 / RTAD10|Freno de bicicleta| - AliExpress
rear shock: €67.54 30% de DESCUENTO|Amortiguador trasero de aire para bicicleta de montaña, AO 38RC, DNM, AOY 36RC, con bloqueo, 165, 190, 200, 210mm, novedad|Amortiguadores traseros| - AliExpress
discs: €12.06 40% de DESCUENTO|ZTTO 1pc MTB DH freno de disco de bicicleta de refrigeración flotante Rotor 203mm 180mm 160mm 140mm 6 pernos Rotor steelFor bicicleta de montaña RT99 RT86|Freno de bicicleta| - AliExpress
bb: €10.54 20% de DESCUENTO|PROWHEEL prensa de bicicleta de montaña BB73 BB92 BB68 BB86, soporte inferior BB de 24mm para SRAM GXP, juego de bielas|Soportes inferiores| - AliExpress
crank: €26.4 21% de DESCUENTO|PROWHEEL bielas para bicicleta de montaña, piñones 104BCD, 175mm, 170mm, 30/32/34/36/38/40/42/44/46/48/50/52T, con soporte inferior|Cigüeñal y cadena de rueda de bicicleta| - AliExpress
puños: €7.9 |Par de puños de goma para manillar de bicicleta de montaña, accesorios para deportes de ciclismo|Mangos de bicicleta| - AliExpress
frame: €467.8 27% de DESCUENTO|Cuadro de fibra de carbono M08, suspensión completa, Cuadro de bicicleta de montaña, actualización FM10, poste de freno de disco, se acepta pintura personalizada, novedad de 2021|Cuadro de bicicleta| - AliExpress
stering rings: €8.36 |EBike Taper top 1 1/8
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What do you think of that fork? Very interested to hear if any Chinese company have gotten a suspension fork right yet.
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What do you think of that fork? Very interested to hear if any Chinese company have gotten a suspension fork right yet.
[/quote
I have not tried it yet, of all the forks that I could see of Chinese origin this is the one that caused me the most confidence. Talk directly to its manufacturer and it is very similar to a Lyrik, for its cartridge and construction.
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Thank you gorkamira for all this information.
I receive frequently requests for more budget builds and this is definitely a great list.
ZTTO make great products, and are easy to communicate with.
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I'm running 2.8 nobby nics on nextie jungle fox 52 rims (45mm inner width) and the tires measure out at 2.980" when fully stretched at 18 psi. There is just shy of 1/4 inch clearance to the stays. Slightly more than my previous frame.
Hello GuitsBoy, how was the history of the damage to your frame by the shock absorber? Did they replace the part? or with the filing arrangement with the Dremel you have left it like this ... has the arrangement gone well?
I am in the same situation even file the round head of the shock absorber to see if it is solved, it rubs less but it continues to rub.
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What do you think of that fork? Very interested to hear if any Chinese company have gotten a suspension fork right yet.
I have not tried it yet, of all the forks that I could see of Chinese origin this is the one that caused me the most confidence. Talk directly to its manufacturer and it is very similar to a Lyrik, for its cartridge and construction.
I too am very interested to hear your ride reports on this fork. Please update when you have some time on the bike.
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I too am very interested to hear your ride reports on this fork. Please update when you have some time on the bike.
This is the manufacturer's link here you can see all the characteristics of the forks
http://www.ydhbike.com/
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I'm very interested in hearing about that fork too. Looking forward to ride impressions.
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What do you think of that fork? Very interested to hear if any Chinese company have gotten a suspension fork right yet.
[/quote
I have not tried it yet, of all the forks that I could see of Chinese origin this is the one that caused me the most confidence. Talk directly to its manufacturer and it is very similar to a Lyrik, for its cartridge and construction.
Any updates on how this fork performs?
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I am regulating it with the exact pressure, it is necessary to take it harder than normal, but the blocking "tics" help you to carry it well. for now. no complaints.
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Have you used it on anything technical? Has it a decent rebound adjustment?
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As soon as I regulate it in pressure, I'll tell you. something technical? Yes ... but I have low pressure. the rebound setting it has is like all of them, roulette from + to -, only 5 clicks. but without being well charged with his air I cannot give you a conclusion. as soon as I can get out more times because of the virus, I'll write to you.
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Thank you very much :)
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So is there a preference on this frame for 27.5 or 29? If you decide on 27.5 wheels (non-plus size) can you just get 165mm/170mm cranks and not have issues with pedal strikes?
I don't expect any change, that was posted over three months ago.
Also, after a fair bit of clarification, I did get an answer out of them re the different options, no difference between the 27.5 and the 29 option.
Hello again. Can you please tell me what the difference between the 27.5 148 x 12 and 29er 148 x 12 frame actually is? I want to run 27.5 plus tyres. Are they actually the same frame, does the 27.5 frame take plus tyres or do I need to order the 29er version? Thank you.
Good morning, if you want to use 27.5 plus tyres, then you need to choose 27.5er frame
27.5er 148X12mm = 27.5er boost
15:19
So what dimensions are different from the 29er frame?
16:03
27.5*2.4 /27.5*2.6/37.5*2.8
29*2.35 tire
16:09
27.5*2.4 /27.5*2.6/27.5*2.8
16:54
Yes I know that. You list for sale both a 29 frame and 27.5 frame. I am asking you what dimensions on the two frames are different? Are chain stay or seat stay lengths different? Is the BB drop different? If they are identical frames why do you give both a 27.5 and 29 option?
17:07
The difference is that 142X12mm and 148X12mmaxle and tires can be installed in different sizes
Yes but you list both a 148mm x 12 27.5 AND a 148mm x 12 29er. What is the actual difference between these two frames? Will a 29er wheel fit in the 27.5 plus frame?
17:17
27.5er frame can use 27.5er*2.4/2.6/2.8 tires
29er frame can only use 29er*2.35 tire
29er wheels are not suitable for 27.5 plus frame
So that must mean that the two frames have different dimensions. What dimensions are different?
17:24
I have asked my boss and he said that the size is universal
Therefore, the tire sizes of the 27.5er and 29er frames are both 27.5*2.4 /2.6/2.8 & 29*2.35
If you choose a 27.5er 148*12mm frame, you can use up to 27.5er*2.8 tires
If you choose 29er 148*12mm, you can use up to 29er*2.35 tires
29er wheels are fit in the 27.5 plus frame
Thank you. I thought that was the case as it is with many of the big brand frames. I was just confused with the two listings. Thank you for checking.
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So is there a preference on this frame for 27.5 or 29? If you decide on 27.5 wheels (non-plus size) can you just get 165mm/170mm cranks and not have issues with pedal strikes?
I've gone 27.5 with Reckon + 2.8s.
I normally ride 175mm cranks but was getting too many pedal strikes. Have swapped to 170mm cranks and am getting fewer pedal strikes but still get them. They tend now to be on rocky climbs. I'm in Sydney Australia and lots of my local trails are sandstone based, even the fire trails are made of crushed sandstone. As they wear we end up with decent sized rocks sticking up out of the trail and we also have lots of rock step ups that run on funny angles across the trail.
I am coming from riding a On-One 456 carbon hardtail with 27.5 wheels. It's BB was high and as a hardtail didn't really drop anywhere near as much as a duallie does so a lot of the above also is impacted by the way I have ridden for the last 7 years. I am getting better at subconsciously timing my cadence to suit what is immediately under my pedals and I am confident that with time pedal strikes will be almost completely gone on trails I know.
The good news is that we always have the option of going to 29ers if it becomes too much of an issue.
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Spent some time @ Bronte. Also did a tour of the outback for 2 weeks with an Aussie buddy. Really great country.
I dont think you should be experience pedal strikes and sounds like it may have more to do with the bike than the rider. Yes we can switch between 29er and 27.5 but wheels and shocks are expensive to swap and I would prefer one and done.
Thanks!
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Spent some time @ Bronte. Also did a tour of the outback for 2 weeks with an Aussie buddy. Really great country.
I dont think you should be experience pedal strikes and sounds like it may have more to do with the bike than the rider. Yes we can switch between 29er and 27.5 but wheels and shocks are expensive to swap and I would prefer one and done.
Thanks!
Born and bred a Bronte boy, lived there for 25 years. You did well if you swam and survived Bronte beach as a tourist, it is notorious as one of Sydney's most dangerous beaches.
BB is low, even though it is higher than most of the other chiner carbon dual wheel sized bikes. I would have loved it being another 10mm higher. I noticed on your post that you are actually talking about 27.5 non plus sized tyres, have to say I wouldn't recommend it but there are few other choices for 27.5, 150mm duallie. I looked for ages and couldn't find one that ticked all of the boxes, this came the closest and I only pulled the trigger knowing if it didn't work I could swap the plus sized tyres onto another bike and just use a 29er wheelset on this one.
Good luck with your search.
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Haha, thats crazy. Had my morning coffee at Huxtons. My buddy has a raised landcruiser with a big custom aluminum canopy on the rear for camping. You might have seen him cruising around town. Didn't venture in the water, but admired it from the hill. Not sure my host warned me tho :o
I ended up picking up some old stock new 29" XM421 with DT Swiss 350 last night. $275. Almost could not help myself. ID 25mm which isnt ideal but it will be fine for a while. Wasn't going to do it but then noticed that my buddy was riding ARC 24 on a SC 5010 with 2.5 tires and it has been working for the years that we have been riding together. I wanted DT Swiss M1900 (ID 30mm) as they are good and reasonable, but everyone is out of stock.
I am not even sure what I going to do with this bike when I am done as I have a bike and my sons niner should be here soon. Its like a tractor beam keeps pulling me in and making me build this bike. c-a-n-t s-t-o-p.
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As soon as I regulate it in pressure, I'll tell you. something technical? Yes ... but I have low pressure. the rebound setting it has is like all of them, roulette from + to -, only 5 clicks. but without being well charged with his air I cannot give you a conclusion. as soon as I can get out more times because of the virus, I'll write to you.
Any update on the forks performance?
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Hello GuitsBoy, how was the history of the damage to your frame by the shock absorber? Did they replace the part? or with the filing arrangement with the Dremel you have left it like this ... has the arrangement gone well?
I am in the same situation even file the round head of the shock absorber to see if it is solved, it rubs less but it continues to rub.
Hey, sorry, I must have missed this. Yes, they did replace the rear seatstays, main alloy pivot, and the shock bolt with a stainless steel variant. None of which have been installed since my various workarounds are doing just fine. Even the epoxy carbon repair looks fine.
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Hi all,
I just had the problem that the screws on the frames got loose very easily. I had to glue them with red loctite now. I was lucky I wasn't alone on the trail, otherwise I could walk home for a couple of miles. I lost one screw while going up the hill, so I was able to find the screw after a couple of minutes an put it back in. So, for those who buy one of these frames and intend to use it off road seriously, use loctite before you even start to assemble the rest to this frame.
I am also not so happy with the internal cable routing ports, these rubbers don't do the job, they fall out, and then the cable start to chatter with every little vibration. This needs definitely some improvments!
Besides that, everything alright so far....
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Hi all,
I just had the problem that the screws on the frames got loose very easily. I had to glue them with red loctite now. I was lucky I wasn't alone on the trail, otherwise I could walk home for a couple of miles. I lost one screw while going up the hill, so I was able to find the screw after a couple of minutes an put it back in. So, for those who buy one of these frames and intend to use it off road seriously, use loctite before you even start to assemble the rest to this frame.
I am also not so happy with the internal cable routing ports, these rubbers don't do the job, they fall out, and then the cable start to chatter with every little vibration. This needs definitely some improvments!
Besides that, everything alright so far....
I Loctite all my frame bolts. Always assumed everyone did this. Forgot to do it on my Evil Following last year and nearly lost a trunnion bolt.
I add pool noodle chunks to my down tube around the head and bottom bracket to silence cables. Forgot who recommended it on here, but it works great.
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I use closed cell rubber pipe insulation, it squashes up easier than the noodles so is easier to get in. Doesn't weigh much for the amount you need.
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Hi there, really appreciate the work you guys have done trying out the frame, troubleshooting the issues, and documenting your struggles. I’ve got a FM10 on the way, but I had some questions while I wait.
I’ve got a Fox DPX2 185x50 W/ Trunnions front mount. I’ve seen a couple others have used the 185x55, I assume I’ll be fine? What front trunnion mount bolts worked for you? What spacers in the back should I pick up?
Also, have your FM10 come with head tube bearings?
Any other recommendations for someone just starting on this frame?
Heres the rough outline of my build, mostly picked up from Pinkbike and Ali:
Frame: FM10
Rear shock: Fox Float DPX2 185x50
Fork: Fox Float 34 Rhythm
Shifter/Derailleur: Shimano XT M8000 11speeds
Cassette: Sunracer CSMX80 11-50T 11speeds
Brakes: SRAM G2 RSC
BB: Shimano XTR BB94
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following this thread, think my next build is going to be a TanTan FM10 with 135mm travel back, 140 front.
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Hi, I lost a frame link bolt (seat stay to chain stay) while riding and now I can't ride my bike. I was wondering if somebody knows which screws and bearings i could order which match with the FM10 frame. Does anybody know what bearings and screws are in here? I have already contacted TanTan Cycling, but I am afraid that it is going to take for ever until I get the spare parts. So, I thought it might be easier to find alternative screws which I can order in my country.
Thanks for your help!
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Hi, I lost a frame link bolt (seat stay to chain stay) while riding and now I can't ride my bike. I was wondering if somebody knows which screws and bearings i could order which match with the FM10 frame. Does anybody know what bearings and screws are in here? I have already contacted TanTan Cycling, but I am afraid that it is going to take for ever until I get the spare parts. So, I thought it might be easier to find alternative screws which I can order in my country.
Thanks for your help!
Good news here: TanTan Cycling will send me some spare parts!
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Hey guys,
I'm currently waiting on this frame, should arrive in a week or two as it shipped about a week ago. Just wanted to post and let you know I'll be adding my experience to the thread soon.
I actually DM'd a couple users here to ask a couple questions - thanks for the input guys!
I picked up a 185x50 dpx2 trunnion mount and will use my current Aion 35 fork with the RC2 damper. My current bike (2018 Occam TR size M) was a bit too XC and a bit too small for my riding and size (5'-11" with a 6'-2" wingspan). Planning a 135mm rear travel and 140mm front travel 29er for this frame. Due to some posts here about the included shock hardware and rear axle breakage I've picked up a low-friction 8x40mm mounting set from S4 suspension and I also ordered a spare axle from TanTan. Once I find out the length and thread pitch of the axle I may pick up a Rockshox brand rear axle as they have a good selection of sizes.
Anyway, once this is built up it will get a weekly thrashing on rocky, rooty, PNW black trails. Technical climbing is super important to me (sometimes we session the uphills) so I'll comment on how it climbs.
I'm also an experienced home mechanic & wheel builder with the Park Tool course, years of maintenance, and a few builds under my belt.
Anyway, if some of the others came back and gave an update on their experience riding this frame that would be great!
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Hello,
I consider purchasing FM10 as well.
I am 184cm tall with 87cm leg length. I am considering 21'' frame.
In the internet each calculator is giving different result.
Please advice.
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Hello,
I consider purchasing FM10 as well.
I am 184cm tall with 87cm leg length. I am considering 21'' frame.
In the internet each calculator is giving different result.
Please advice.
I'm 6.0 ft (183 cm) and I dont think I would feel comfortable on a 21. The 19 doesn't feel cramped to me, but it certainly doesnt feel long either. Do you prefer a bigger bike or a smaller one? At your height, You could go either way.
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Hello,
I consider purchasing FM10 as well.
I am 184cm tall with 87cm leg length. I am considering 21'' frame.
In the internet each calculator is giving different result.
Please advice.
You might check out this article on bike sizing: https://www.leelikesbikes.com/rad-bike-setup.html
Per formula, your "ideal" rider area distance (to enable your body to efficiently exert force on the bike) is 822.48cm
The RAD for the 21" frame calculated from reach and stack height is 798, meaning that with a small spacer and stem, you should be on the money for bike to body size, though without much wiggle room.
The 19" frame comes in at 775.63mm, a little smaller so with a few spacers and a stem you'll be right on, with the flexibility to change your size around with stem and bars rather than buying a different frame. A touch lighter on the climb as well.
Both will fit, the 19" should have more control and feel a bit more playful, the 21" should be feel more planted and stable at speed.
What type of terrain do you ride most often?
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I ordered an FM10 in size M - I'm 172cm tall. I ran the geometry numbers vs. my current 26" bike (which is too small) and this should be a good fit for me. Hoping to build it as a 150/150 mm travel rig.
I ordered it yesterday via the Seraph Official store on AliExpress, and I got notified it was shipping today. That was a pleasant surprise.
I have a pair of 27.5" rims on order from another vendor. I may wind up converting to 29" later. Would like to see how it behaves as a 27.5+ before I switch to the wagon wheels.
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I failed to order a rear thru-axle with the bike. Does anyone have the specs on the required length and threads? Thanks.
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Does it not come with one?
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Does it not come with one?
Not sure on the FM10, but you should always ask. I assumed all frames came with the rear axle and derailer hanger until I bought a Chiner that didn't. Now I ask because it's a whole lot cheaper to buy and ship them with the frame than it is to do it separately.
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Mine came with the axle. The axle is threaded into the dropout, so it s a matched set. Frames that dont come with an axle are usually e-thru type that require both the thru axle and nut, at least in my experience. I did order a spare derailleur hanger with my frame just to have a spare on hand, and I believe that came with a second axle.
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Mine came with an axle as well. I believe it's a 12mm thread pitch but I can put calipers on it if you're looking to buy a spare ahead of your frame arriving.
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Does it not come with one?
The product description says the axle is not included unless you add it to your order: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000405521351.html
I foolishly assumed that all 148x12mm thru-axles were the same. But I learned otherwise last night.
It's not a big deal, I can wait until the frame arrives to figure this out. It's in the hands of the shippers now.
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The product description says the axle is not included unless you add it to your order: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000405521351.html
I foolishly assumed that all 148x12mm thru-axles were the same. But I learned otherwise last night.
It's not a big deal, I can wait until the frame arrives to figure this out. It's in the hands of the shippers now.
I still think you might be pleasantly surprised, but just in case, the specs are printed on the axle itself.
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The included components vary widely by seller. I ordered mine on DHGate and messaged the seller to find out what was included. Oddly, they said it included a headset and rear axle but not a seatpost clamp. You should ask the seller so that you can scoop up anything that might be missing. Note that you might need some shock mounting hardware. See the earlier posts in this thread.
I inquired about ordering a spare derailleur hanger, but they told me they were out of stock! Does anyone know the hanger number or the Ali link so I can source one?
@SVChucko - Hopefully your shipping is quick - mine has been stuck at "airport departure" for 3 weeks now. I've got all my bits ready to build the bike, just waiting on the frame!
If I get mine first and build it up, feel free to DM me with any questions.
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The product description says the axle is not included unless you add it to your order: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000405521351.html
I foolishly assumed that all 148x12mm thru-axles were the same. But I learned otherwise last night.
It's not a big deal, I can wait until the frame arrives to figure this out. It's in the hands of the shippers now.
Now that I look at your link I remember having conversations with that shop before I bought mine and they were adamant it didn't come with it. I kept questioning because the pics all show it and the seat collar. Doesn't help you now but that was one of the reasons I ordered from here instead. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000406391102.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4d2COzfJ
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Thanks @GuitsBoy!
@emu26, I find the purchase process confusing because so many storefronts claim to be "official" and "factory" and "authorized"... Looking at your link, they appear to be the same company. I think the vendors are doing A/B testing on us to see what sells. In my case, it was that low low price. I know from previous (non-bike) AI purchases that vendors will often have a lower top line price and make it up in the shipping costs. Heck, I've even seen that on eBay.
@andrewj, the shipper says they picked up my frame yesterday... hoping I don't get stuck in the same holding pattern.
Meanwhile I have a bunch of component purchases also coming from China, because there is no stock at the big US retailers.
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Talking about good price have a look at this. Both links to the same store, the one with the 2021 year on it is $270 Australian cheaper. Same shipping cost.
$634 Australian plus shipping and GST https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000405521351.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4e06362c1QJq38&algo_pvid=c20fed00-9df1-4a96-9d8a-445cc86c03ab&algo_exp_id=c20fed00-9df1-4a96-9d8a-445cc86c03ab-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2210000002666905924%22%7D
$904 Australian plus shipping and GST https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002165916383.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4e06362c1QJq38&algo_pvid=c20fed00-9df1-4a96-9d8a-445cc86c03ab&algo_exp_id=c20fed00-9df1-4a96-9d8a-445cc86c03ab-3&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000018922472580%22%7D
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My frame finally arrived. I had a couple of hours to work on it last night.
I've attached a couple photos. Overall, quality seems OK. The rubber downtube guard is the one available off AliEx - it installed nicely. My fork is only at 130mm in the photo. I need to adjust it to 140mm travel still.
The bad:
- I had to sand down some excess paint / material on the inside of the shock mount to slide my trunnion mount shock into place.
- fair bit of frayed fibers on the inside where post-drilling had been done. I've not worked with a carbon frame from a big manufacturer so I don't know if this is normal. My wife has a flyxii carbon cyclocross bike and it was relatively smooth inside.
- The chainstays had to flex out about 5mm to accommodate my wheel. I hope they sent me the boost version as ordered. Doesn't seem like a big deal, only a couple mm per side. Could have been some excess paint / material similar to my shock issue.
- The provided rear axle was very tight through my hub. There is some noticeable drag through one of the seals on the drive side.
The good:
- The exterior finish is almost flawless. There are a couple visible rough spots around some of the pivots. Probably some minor chipping fron drilling. Very minor and only visible upon close inspection.
- The price. This cost me $777 CAD, plus $16.30 in taxes. That's like $640 USD all in for you folks down south.
- Availability. Yes, I had to wait a couple months, but I was actually able to buy this.
- The sizing / geo. I picked this frame based on my desired reach, HTA, and travel. I currently measure this at a 335mm bottom bracket height. This will be about 338mm once I increase my fork to 140mm. This is a similar height to my previous bike, 2018 Occam TR. While I loved that bike, it was a size medium (too small) and 120mm/130mm R/F travel was not quite enough for my riding. My size large FM10 will have an extra 30mm reach and be 135mm/140mm R/F travel with a slightly slacker HTA.
Anyway, more photos to come. Hopefully finish it up and test ride within the next week. Any technical questions, just send me a DM.
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Andrew, sounds like they might have sent you the non-boost 12x142 version. You might want to get in touch with them to confirm. My wheel slides right in perfectly without having to spread the rear triangle. I'd be afraid of running it that way, even if it is only 6mm. Maybe they messed up and will send you a new triangle? I dont know, but might as well look into it.
I had to file down my shock hardware just a touch, but I've had to do that on other brand frames in the past as well. No big deal.
As for the fibers, any chance you can take a pic of them? Its probably no big deal, but a photo would probably help solidify everyone's opinion.
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Thanks for the advice, I'll take the wheel out and measure the dropout spacing with a set of calipers. If it is incorrect, it's a good thing it's just the rear triangle.
As for the fibers, I won't be able to take a photo since it's inside the frame. I felt the frayed fibers while my fingers were inside the frame for cable routing.
Very simple cable routing on this frame by the way - I started from the back and finished at the head tube. This allowed me to reach in the head tube to guide each piece of housing through its intended opening.
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@andrewj, what shock did you go with? I have a Manitou Mara 185x55mm trunnion shock and a Cane Creek Helm II 150mm fork waiting here for the frame.
Good to hear about the cable/hose routing being straightforward.
FWIW my frame has been at "delivered to the carrier" since Sept. 26. The rims I ordered from "shunheng bike store" at the same time as the frame shipped much later. As of this morning the rims are at JFK Airport in NY, so even though I'm in California, I'm expecting to get the rims before the frame.
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It's a 185x50 Fox DPX2 trunnion mount. Once I got the shock into position, it fit perfectly between the frame mounts atthe trunnion end. It was just a matter of sanding the material around the mount.
The other end required no modification and worked perfectly with my 40mm M8 hardware installed on the shock.
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I'm with Guitsboy, sounds to me like you have a 142mm rear triangle. From memory tolerance on the rear is +1.5mm / -0.5mm, clearly -6mm is way outside that.
As for BB height, don't forget that it will actually sag more once weighted than your last bike so your BB will actually end up lower when riding.
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I heard back from TanTan about the rear spacing ... I had to send them a ton of pictures showing the rear spacing is only 143mm. Eventually their response was that it's normal and to flex the chainstays outward to install the wheel. I'm not convinced, but that's all they've come up with. It works, but makes the rear wheel very difficult to install. I think they screwed up and won't admit it.
After some preliminary riding on this, I regret pairing it with the DPX2. To anyone considering this frame I would highly recommend a coil shock. If I had seen the leverage curve posted on lightcarbon's site for the lcfs713 (I think it's the same as the fm10), I wouldn't have bought the dpx2. I removed all the volume spacers and the rear suspension is still too progressive, i.e - ramps up way before full travel. I'm going to try running more sag on the shock (like 35%) and see how that works.
With pressure set to achieve 30% sag, the rear travel is much too firm and does not track the ground very well over the rough stuff. And yes, I have turned off all compression damping. 185lbs, running at about 220psi to achieve 30% sag.
I'm curious what the experience of others had been with air shocks on this frame. If this is the same as the lightcarbon 713 frame, looks like the leverage ratio goes from 3.25 to about 2.2 over the first 135mm of travel. This is crazy progressive and seems designed for a more linear spring rate like a coil shock.
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That's a bummer to hear about the rear spacing. I think you pegged them about making the mistake, but I guess they believe its within spec. Pretty disappointing, and seems to me they deserve some bad press if that's their take on things. Theyre racking up more and more small errors, but very public facing. Maybe right now theyre scrambling just to keep their head above water? Or maybe theyve got so much business they dont care about individual retail buyers? Who knows, but it definitely sucks for us.
I'm running a manitou mcleod air shock and Ive been generally very happy with it. I'm running about 185 psi at 210 bodyweight, also at 30% sag. Compression is usually 2/4, occasionally with 3/4 for long climbs or 1/4 for downhills. I prefer a progressive spring in most cases, but it doesnt strike me as overly so. A 2 ft drop will leave me about 3/8 inch of stroke left as per the telltale, and a closer to 4 ft drop will leave about 3/16, so Ive got a little bit of room for error. I bought the king can (large volume air can) for the shock, but so far I've been happy with it in stock form, so the king can is still in the box. But I ride primarily trail, with only occasional visits to the jump line or some light jank/gnar. If you do a lot of lift assisted or enduro style riding, you probably dont care about pedaling platform the same way I do. This may change since my buddy is returning my 120mm travel bike soon, so I wont have to use the big bike for XC rides anymore.
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Andrew if you bought through Aliexpress I would be opening a dispute with them. Being 5mm under spec is not within their tolerances, that should be marked on their geo drawings and from memory it is +1mm -0.5mm. Be clear what resolution you want, replacement rear triangle in spec or x% refund. Be patient, it's a pain but these disputes take some time. I would not be stressing the rear that much by continuing to ride on it but that is just me, I'm sure others wouldn't give it a second thought.
Agree with Guits, Tantan / Seraph are certainly racking up -ve customer service commentary at the moment.
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I purchased on DHGate and they are tripling down that they sent the right frame. It is pretty clear that they are wrong. Photo attached.
They keep saying the same thing: that the axle wouldn't fit if it was a 142x12 frame. The ignorance is strong. I would have expected that they would know the basics of bikes and bike frames.
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I purchased on DHGate and they are tripling down that they sent the right frame. It is pretty clear that they are wrong. Photo attached.
They keep saying the same thing: that the axle wouldn't fit if it was a 142x12 frame. The ignorance is strong. I would have expected that they would know the basics of bikes and bike frames.
Did you try to message some who have the frame already if they can measure it for you ?
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Did you try to message some who have the frame already if they can measure it for you ?
I have one and my boost wheel goes in and out without issue. Happy to take pics with calipers if you want Andrew, just let me know. I can't see how it can be anything but a non boost rear end.
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Yeah a couple people have chimed in that they can fit their boost rear wheel in the frame without having to flex the frame outward. One of the problems here is that it makes it almost impossible to install the rear wheel when the brake caliper and derailleur are installed.
Their messaging is extremely frustrating when I have semt photos showing that they are clearly wrong.
Stuff like this:
" ps: As a frame supplier, we understand the frame better. "
Hmm, clearly not.
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Stuff like this:
" ps: As a frame supplier, we understand the frame better. "
Wow. That would piss me right off. I doubt I'll buy another frame from TanTan in the future. Its a shame because Ive been quite pleased with mine overall, and they did right by me. Too many other people having a bad experience with them. Not worth the risk now.
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Andrew, it might be too late now, but if I was you I would be speaking to my credit card company and having the payment reversed. They have not sent you what you ordered and paid for. May well have been a genuine mistake, but their attitude since would have my back up and I would be doing everything possible to recover funds.
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I lost the male bolt and washer from one of the rear frame pivot sex bolts and contacted TanTan via info@tantancycling.com and through the web site chat utility and received a response from both within 24 hours. Caroline contacted me over Whatsapp and I ordered a new one DHL express for $70 total (10 day delivery). Regular shipping would have only been $20 total but no certainty on delivery date. I received a tracking number just a few hours after making payment with Paypal.
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I lost the male bolt and washer from one of the rear frame pivot sex bolts and contacted TanTan via info@tantancycling.com and through the web site chat utility and received a response from both within 24 hours. Caroline contacted me over Whatsapp and I ordered a new one DHL express for $70 total (10 day delivery). Regular shipping would have only been $20 total but no certainty on delivery date. I received a tracking number just a few hours after making payment with Paypal.
Oh man, thats pricey delivery! I would have run your makeshift bolt and waited, but I guess you needed it sooner than later. Hope you're not down for too long.
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Just going to throw out there that I have finally given in and swapped out my 27.5 x 2.8's for 29 x 2.3's and the bike has come alive. Almost identical weights on both wheelsets so it's not that, just rolling resistance and no more pedal strikes. Will be going back to the 175 cranks asap.
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Just going to throw out there that I have finally given in and swapped out my 27.5 x 2.8's for 29 x 2.3's and the bike has come alive. Almost identical weights on both wheelsets so it's not that, just rolling resistance and no more pedal strikes. Will be going back to the 175 cranks asap.
Funny you should mention that. I just built up a set of 29er hoops on M1 hubs with DT swiss internals the last two nights. Got it all taped and mounted up this morning. Hoping to take it for a shakedown run tomorrow night. Ive been riding 29ers on my little 100mm travel bike, but now I can swap 27.5x2.8 and 29x2.35 out at will on this bike. Moving from nobby nics to maxxis forekasters made the pedal strikes unbearable, and I had to stretch the fork to 160 to compensate. The 29ers should alleviate that. Glad to hear you like the new wheels, good luck with it.
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Whose frame bolts came with loctite pre-applied? All my pivotsl bolts came with blue loctitepre-appplied, but were very under torqued. I torqued them all to 1nm below max indicated. Hopefully no one else loses any more bolts!
Also, I got the Bomber CR shock installed. 185x52.5 trunnion It's a perfect match for this frame's leverage curve. Ultra plush with a good pedalling platform at the sag point - no bob. With the 500lb spring installed the shock is almost 1kg! For the performance, the weight is easily worth it.
Other than receiving the wrong rear spacing (142 instead of 148) I'm really digging the bike on the light trails around my home. I plan to take it for a proper ride this weekend.
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Funny you should mention that. I just built up a set of 29er hoops on M1 hubs with DT swiss internals the last two nights. Got it all taped and mounted up this morning. Hoping to take it for a shakedown run tomorrow night. Ive been riding 29ers on my little 100mm travel bike, but now I can swap 27.5x2.8 and 29x2.35 out at will on this bike. Moving from nobby nics to maxxis forekasters made the pedal strikes unbearable, and I had to stretch the fork to 160 to compensate. The 29ers should alleviate that. Glad to hear you like the new wheels, good luck with it.
Yep, I'll be keeping the plus wheels as well for when I am both fitter and also for places like Thredbo when I take the boy down.
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Hey Guys,
I've used a Lightcarbon LCFS713 for over one season and the bike is briiliant!. I ride trailds really hard, drops over 6ft, and some local KOM and a lot of PR. Bottomed out the frame in some situations ;D ;D
No racing only because COVID
After one season of use, It's time to replace it. But, bad new. Not available anymore :(
So I have full spares, Fox Factory, Revive, Hope, DT... and 2 shocks 200x57 CCDB air - ELka stage 5 :) searching for a good bike
The FM10 could be the best way, I'm not sure. I've read all the thread, and not fully convinced.
The shock bolt failure has been fixed? And now th frame has a good clearance for 200x57 shock?
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If your trunnion shock bolt breaks a 5/6" x 3.5" stainless steel bolt with nyloc nut and washers will work as others have described. I found that this copper tubing from Lowes makes a great bushing to fill the gap between the 8mm diameter of the 5/16" bolt and the inside of the 10mm bearing. I used a 1/4" drill to knock the burrs off and wallow it out a bit then used a washer to push onto the bolt (one on each side). There's still a little play between the copper tubing and the bearing but once I tightened it up there's no movement. I used the 3.5" bolt so that the threads don't start until just past the bearing and then cut off the excess.
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Does anyone know if I can use the full 150mm rear travel with 29" wheels?
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@emu26 solved the question. 185x55mm seems to work with 29" wheels.
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Frame arrived today. Looks super nice.
I ordered it from Amazon and don't know if it is the exact same frame as the TanTan FM10.
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B08LL3YGKF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The geometry listed on Amazon may be not the correct one. I haven't checked them but it looks like the reach is longer than shown. So maybe the same geometry as the TanTan.
Good news:
They changed the seat stay. And this time they didn't add a large pocket at the wrong position. :D Just a small pocket at the correct position.
They also delivered a solid steel mounting screw for non-trunnion shocks and the through axle seems to be aluminium.
200x55 DNM AOY 36 mounted:
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The modified seat stay takes the full range of motion and still has about 2-3mm distance to the 200mm shock mount at the critical position. So yes, they fixed the problem.
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Bike is ready. Looks like a dropperpost is a must have.
Shimano Deore XT FC-M8100-1 Kurbel 1x12, 170mm. 52mm chainline. 34T Chainwheel.
Shimano Deore Shadow Plus RD-M6100 12-speed rear derailleur
DNM AOY-36RC 200x55 rear shock
The fork should be this one:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Catazer-27-5-29inch-MTB-Bicycle_1600178980732.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.573c6378APkSBD
36mm stanchions. They say that it has 160mm travel, but it comes at 140mm. It is possible to change the travel to 160mm but I guess it has a good reason that it is set to 140mm. There are some reports about broken stanchions after flat drops. I removed one 10mm spacer to get 150mm out of the fork. Since I won't jump or ride super hard it's ok for now. Will switch the fork in the future.
Overall the fork is not as responsible as I wish.
I used many parts from my old bike. Tektro brakes, an old ugly saddle, pedals with some rusty spikes, handlebar, stem, tyres etc.
I bought two 160mm centerlock discs. Turned out the fork wants a 180mm disc, so I recycled my old 180mm Hope 6 Bolt rotor. Used a reverse 6 bolt to centerlock adapter. Didn't worked out of the box and the rivets dragged on the fork. It was just a tiny bit. Removed 0,3mm from the adapter. Was enough to get it running without any drag.
29" wheelset. 30mm rim inner width. Continental Kaiser Projekt 2.4" on the front, Maxxis aggressor 2,25" on the back.
Bottom bracket is a ninja token. Runs smooth.
How hard do you ride this frame?
PS: Don't panic. I laid the bike down super carefully. Nothing touches the frame. :D
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Designed a little mudguard for the rear wheel. It is thicker than others available and is meant to be printed with flexible TPU.
I printed two and used one for the top part of the downtube.
3D Printed Mudguard settings:
Material: SainSmart TPU, transparent yellow
Temperature: 230-235°
Initial Layer Speed 15mm/s
Other layers: 30mm/s
Infill: 100%
Walls: 2
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I like the bike. Rides pretty good. But the cheap fork sucks.
Don't buy this fork: https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Catazer-27-5-29inch-MTB-Bicycle_1600178980732.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.573c6378APkSBD
On Amazon it is sold as this: https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B08MZVDPXP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
After I ordered it they told me that they changed the stickers on the fork and send me the one with the ABC logos.
What's good about the fork? The rebound adjustment is pretty good. From fully open to super slow. Works surprisingly well.
But the stanchions slide into some sort of plastic tubes. The plastic inserts have only two ~10mm long rings. One at the top, one at the bottom. Between those rings is about 10cm mostly nothing with a little plastic. The stanchions slide in this two rings and it doesn't run smooth. The fork doesn't react on small impacts. Zero movement for small stuff. It needs quiet some hard impacts to get the fork moving. And the stanchions won't fully bounce back all the time. They stuck and need some hard pedal strokes or a hard pull on the handle bar to get back into position. It is possible to add more pressure but that would make the fork hard like shit.
I don't recommend this one. If the trail is rough it feels "ok". Hard stuff gets eaten well. High speed over a 10cm rock is no problem. But besides that the fork feels mostly stiff and it needs a pull on the bar to jump back up or higher PSI.. I guess if the plastic inserts would be different the fork would be a little better.
The plastic insert is the same concept as this one from a youtube video (ZTZ Fork)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWkQ6BtGdsk
If I look at the ZTZ fork it could be the same manufacturer as the "ABC" Fork.
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Small update on the fork:
It is possible to get better performance from the fork. I followed a tutorial on Youtube but can't find it anymore.
Basically I marked the stanchions on the wanted point of sag, pushed the fork to that point and locked it with cable ties. Then flipped the bike and minimally loosened the dampernut and airshaftscrew. Then pressed the airshaftscrew a tiny bit in until the pressure in the lower (negative air) could get out. (pssssscht sound)
I didn't expected it to work but I was wrong. It changed the performance of the fork a lot. From basically stiff on smaller impacts to "Ok.. cool. I can live with that".
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Hi all, just dropping by to post a quick update on this frame. It took almost four years, give or take, but this past weekend, I think I finally fell in love with this frame.
As I'm getting older, and my kids school and sports schedule is taking up more and more of my time, I'm riding less and getting weaker by the minute. As such, pushing a 160/150 bike around the small hills on this sandbar I live on has gotten exhausting. Ive been riding my big squish a lot less, in favor of my 120/100 travel FM27 little squish, or the SS hardtail mostly. I still take the big bike whenever I travel the 2+ hours to get to some proper chunk / jank / light gnar /etc. But foolishly, I've still been running my shock and fork too tight and high pressures, trying to get the bike to do double duty and climb like an XC bike. It just isn't feasible.
After contacting manitou about a top out clunk in my shock, we went back and forth, and they suggested a shim stack for a custom tune based on my weight and leverage ratio. I had the option if I wanted my max compression to be a full lockout, or an enduro style tune to maximize traction on climbs. Breaking from my XC ways, I decided on the enduro style. I mean, I already have an XC bike Ive been riding and loving lately. With the new shock tune done, I went back to the beginning on tuning my manitou mezzer up front. After a fresh lowers service, I dropped a ton of pressure in both the main and IRT chambers and built up my tune from the ground up to match the new tune in the shock. I tested it locally and it felt incredibly plush and supple over small roots, and didnt feel terribly sluggish, so that was that.
This past weekend, I took a four hour drive with a couple of my buds to my parents house up in the mountains. As luck would have it, theyve been building an incredible trail network over the last 2 to 3 years. All machine built flow trail, tons of rocks, slabs, and gnarly roots, jump lines. Ive been riding it solo or with buddies from up there ever since they started building it. But this is the first time I went with a couple of the harder charging guys I normally ride with, so effectively, this was the first time I really hit the trail properly. Over two days we did probably 10 hours, 30 miles and 5K+ vertical worth of heavy flow trail, jank and tech. The bike was absolutely incredible throughout. It didn't miss a beat. It climbed well enough, but really came alive pointed downhill. The lower center of gravity (lower sag) led to a more in-the-bike feel (as opposed to on-top-of-the-bike feel). It was balanced and composed while ripping berms. Jumps and drops were comfortable and predictable. And my god, it handles chunk like nothing Ive ever owned before. Plowing at high speed through rock gardens, or burly root sections, the bike never once stepped out of line. Even navigating the slow speed tech, not once did the front wheel hang up and try and throw me over the bars. It wasn't the usual feeling of plowing into jank at high speeds and hoping you somehow skip over everything and make it to the other side. The bike felt in control and reactive through the chunder. No more point and pray, it finally feels like I'm actually riding the bike.
The long and the short of it all: I should never have tried to make this bike do double duty, especially with a well equipped stable. I should have set it up for riding that will use full travel from the start. I'm finally loving it the way I always hoped to.
Current setup:
Manitou Mezzer Pro at 160mm travel. Manitou McLeod 210x55 shock with custom enduro tune / piston.
BTLOS 29" i29 enduro carbon hoops on ZTTO M1 hubs and genuine DT Swiss 54t star ratchet. Maxxis 29x2.3 DHF and aggressor.
Eagle xx1 cassette and chain, x01 shifter and RD. Truvative descendent carbon cranks, Oval 28t, spank oozy pedals.
Shimano Zee 4-pot brakes. Answer Protaper 810 carbon bars. Brand-X Ascend dropper.
My only complaints are the shock bolts bend just by looking at them, and the pivot bearings crumble almost monthly. I'm using my homebrew steel sex bolt and common shock mounting hardware with great success. And I recently swapped out to some max duty bearings in the pivots. Hopefully theyll survive a bit longer than previous ones. Otherwise, any previous concerns have been sorted.