Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: varanik on April 22, 2015, 06:50:19 AM
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Hallo from Munich,
I'm a road cyclist (built many road bikes) planning to build my own MTB... it's a confusing world out there!
After much reading: I'm about to purchase a 29r IP-036 19" (I'm 6ft) and 2015 high-end DSS IP-HR930C carbon 29er wheels.
I need your help in buying all the parts (I'm quite lucky with the budget but don't want to go crazy).
Ideally I'd love to end up with the list of all the parts I need to order... it would be good for future builds also!
Starting with the frame which BB? and 3k/us? 135/142? (I'll go for Matte for the colour)
Thank you
Paolo
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Hi Paolo, welcome !
I can advise you to take the BSA as BB. Also 142, it's more common. And 3k or UD, it's up to you. UD is just matte black, 3k has some carbon weaves visible.
About a build list ... please take a look at this forum, there're many buildlist (for example my own build list, see my signature).
I've got the same IP-HR930C carbon wheels and I really like them.
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Hi Paolo, welcome !
I can advise you to take the BSA as BB. Also 142, it's more common. And 3k or UD, it's up to you. UD is just matte black, 3k has some carbon weaves visible.
About a build list ... please take a look at this forum, there're many buildlist (for example my own build list, see my signature).
I've got the same IP-HR930C carbon wheels and I really like them.
Definitely Matt. I'll use your list as a reference... can you paste it in a message or attach it as an editable file?
What is recommended for the back suspension?
Thank you
Paolo
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Definitely Matt. I'll use your list as a reference... can you paste it in a message or attach it as an editable file?
What is recommended for the back suspension?
And should I write down the links where the parts are the cheapest?
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Definitely Matt. I'll use your list as a reference... can you paste it in a message or attach it as an editable file?
What is recommended for the back suspension?
And should I write down the links where the parts are the cheapest?
That would be brilliant.... can you also come and assemble it for me.?
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Lol. The sarcasm is cracking me up ;D
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Lol. The sarcasm is cracking me up ;D
Sarcasm??? I was deadly serious ;D
I'm just a very confused dude... there are far too many variants out there and I don't want to end up buying the wrong part.
Ideally it would be fantastic to share a spreadsheet where we have a bike frame, model and manufacturer and 3 columns with Good, Better, Best with detailed descriptions (and links) to all the components instead of having to spend hours browsing every post.
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Ideally it would be fantastic to share a spreadsheet where we have a bike frame, model and manufacturer and 3 columns with Good, Better, Best with detailed descriptions (and links) to all the components instead of having to spend hours browsing every post.
Nice idea! Can't wait to review.
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Ideally it would be fantastic to share a spreadsheet where we have a bike frame, model and manufacturer and 3 columns with Good, Better, Best with detailed descriptions (and links) to all the components instead of having to spend hours browsing every post.
Nice idea! Can't wait to review.
Don't panic! I'll add a column also for the best assembler ;)
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Not an editable list but here is my IP-036 build sheet. Pricing is from a year ago so you should be able to do better.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/ip-036_specs.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/S2k_Dude/Carbon%20FS%2029er/Carbon_FS_vs_HT-2.jpg)
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Very nice
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I'm just a very confused dude... there are far too many variants out there and I don't want to end up buying the wrong part.
Ideally it would be fantastic to share a spreadsheet where we have a bike frame, model and manufacturer and 3 columns with Good, Better, Best with detailed descriptions (and links) to all the components instead of having to spend hours browsing every post.
Well, yeah, that would be pretty convenient. Problem is it depends far too much on personal preference. SRAM or Shimano? 11 speed or 10 speed? Single front chainring or double? Clipless or flat pedals? Etc. Most importantly, what's your budget? I think you'll find that the forum will pretty much take most of the research out of the equation for you but we just need more info.
You're going to have to put some research time in, which for some people like me, that's one of the funnest parts. Picking out each component exactly as you want it. I'd say don't get too wrapped up in only the 036 build lists. Browse through all the builds and pretty much any component is available for every frame.
Without knowing your budget.. My advice is get a full Shimano SLX 2x10 drivetrain and hydro brakes and rotors. Get the frame with standard BSA bottom bracket. Get the rear hub with 12X142 thru-axle and make sure your frame has the same in the rear dropouts. Get a Rockshox Reba, or X Fusion Velvet 100mm travel fork with 15 mm thru-axle (again, make sure your order your front wheel hub with 15mm thru-axle. That should get you started.
And if you actually get MTB2223 to assemble it for free, that would be even better, of course! ;D
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^^ That's actually all really good advice imo, and would be a great starting point. Unless, of course, you prefer SRAM. Also, it's probably not the most cost effective way of doing your build. For example, SLX is a really good value imo but maybe the XT shifters were on sale for the same or cheaper price at the time you bought the SLX. If you want to maximize how much bike you get for your set budget, you really need to have an understanding of the components.
As far as the best places to get deals.. There's Art's Cyclery, Chain Reaction, Nashbar, Pricepoint, Performance bike, Jenson, and a few more that I'm sure I'm forgetting.
Also, welcome to the forum.. And you're right about there needing to be a better resource for doing these builds. It needs to made more accessible to relative newbies, but it's not the simplest of problems to solve.
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I don't see where the confusion lies. If you've build up road bikes before...mountain bikes are different. Only thing is that there is suspension on mountain bikes...if you choose to build one with suspension.
The drive train parts all function basically the same. You just need to decide on how much you want to spend and what manufacturers functionality you like better. I chose SRAM drive train and Shimano brakes
What do you plan on doing with the bike? Race or mainly recreation?
Here is what I chose for my frame specs:
BSA bottom bracket, plain and simple. Easy to maintain. Can be installed and removed with a simple BB tool.
135 rear end. This is what I currently have so I went with it. Most of these frames have convertible 135 to 142 rear ends...so I don't matter what rear axle you go with. My frame came with the 142 drop outs and axle. So if I decide to go 142 later on...I have the parts.
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Thank you all for the replies... I'm still getting my head around all the options.
First of all it will be for fun, no racing... Though I have ridden across US solo and completed a Paris Brest: I plan to put it thru some intensive usage in the alps.
- I gather BB30 seems do develop some squeaking noises so I'm more inclined to BSA (which is 68mm?) which puts SRAM out of the question
- I don't want to have a front derailleur so was thinking of Shimano XX1
- Does it make sense to get a seatpost dropper? (seatpost is 31.6mm right?)
- Rear end: 135/142 I have been advised her on both :) ... which one ?
Again thank you.
Paolo
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Go for the BSA. And take a Shimano 1x10 setup (or the new 1x11 setup). In case of the 1x10 setup you could go for the 42T of OneUp. And replace the 15T and 17T with a 16T. And as chainring a 32T or 34T. And at the rear the 142 axle. Dropper not needed. You're building a XC mtb.
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It's SRAM XX1 not Shimano. And yeah, if you're wanting the best... do get SRAM XX1. It's just that it's pretty pricey. Also, and double check this before ordering but I think if you go with SRAM XX1 then you will need the BB30 frame.
If that's the kinda budget you're working with then you should just copy Carbon_Dude's build list he posted in this thread.
142 rear is what you want since you're ordering wheels and a frame there won't be any compatibility issues.
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SRAM XX1 works fine with a BSA BB shell, you just select the GXP option on the crank and BB. Best of both worlds in my opinion, both my bikes are this way.
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Ok here we go here's the shopping list from ChainReaction... 3024 euros total :o
Headset
- Cane Creek 40-Series IS42 Integrated Headset Black, 42mm, 1.1/8", Short Cover €44.49
- Cane Creek 40-Series IS52-30 Bottom Assembly €29.99
Stem
- Thomson Elite X4 MTB Stem Black, 100mm, 31.8mm, 1.1/8", 0 Degrees €70.49
Brakeset
- Formula R1 Racing Disc Brakeset Silver, Front PM180mm - Rear IS180mm, Pair €370.49
Forks
- RockShox SID XX Solo Air Forks - 15mm 2015 Black, 29", 120mm, 1.1/8" - 1.5" Tapered, 15mm - XLoc Sprint €626.49
Rear Shock
- Cane Creek DBInline Rear Shock165mm, 38mm € 498
Pedals
- Shimano XTR M9020 Trail SPD Clipless MTB Pedal €99.49
Grips
- Lizard Skins Logo Lock-On Grips Bonus Pack - Peaty
Tyres
- Continental X-King MTB Tyre - ProTection Black, 29", 2.2", Folding Bead €60.99 (each)
SRAM groupset €1016.19
- SRAM XX1 11 Speed Crankset Black, 76mm, 170mm, 156 Q-Factor, BB30 Grey, 68/73mm, English Thread
- SRAM Alloy GXP Bottom Bracket Grey, 68/73mm, English Thread
- SRAM XX1 Type 2 11 Speed Rear Mech 2014 - Black,
- SRAM XX1 11sp Trigger ShifterBlack, Right Hand Rear
- SRAM XX1 HollowPin 11 Speed Chain Silver
- SRAM X1 XG1180 11 Speed MTB Cassette Black, 10-42t
- SRAM XX1 Chainring Arctic Grey, 76mm, 32t
Stans No Tubes The Solution Tyre Sealant 2015
Apparently I also need these: Formula R1 MC Clamp For SRAM X0-X9 Shifters to use the Formula Brakes: they are left hand only. (I'm puzzled)
Over to you to amend/criticise/correct and above all suggest changes based on your valuable experience :)
Danke/Grazie
Paolo
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Here is some feedback Paolo:
1) I haven't tried Formula brakes but it's hard to believe there is a better brake out there than Shimano XT/XTR brakes.
2) 180mm rotor on the fork will require a caliper mounting bracket (160mm w/o bracket), 180mm rear will also require a caliper mounting bracket for the frame (160 is standard w/o bracket).
3) If you went with a Rockshox rear shock you could also get a dual lockout lever that controls both the fork and the shock so you can lock them both out on climbs.
4) Stan's sealant is pretty good, although I still prefer Orange Sealant.
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Only real reason to go Formula R1 over XTR is the weight. You can knock off some decent weight with them. I think they were somewhere around 250gr lighter then my m785 XT.
I was considering them until I starting reading the reviews. They seem to be hit or miss when it comes to servicing them. A common issue with them is the pad spacing. Its real tight. The brakes don't seem get any better even after getting serviced by Formula. So if you know the Formula brakes real well...or have a mechanic that is good with Formula brakes...I'd skip them and go XTR. With the XT/XTR...you pretty much set them up and forget it. I have a pair of XT m775 from 2010. They have been bled once in 5 years...and that was when the hoses got shortened. Zero issues.
Your frame should come with a headset. So no need to spend money there.
If the XX1 cost is too high. You can take a couple steps down and go X01/X1/GX.
Shimano is coming out with their XT 11 speed group in about 2 or 3 months. That is another option. Chain Reaction already has prices up for it.
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Your frame should come with a headset. So no need to spend money there.
It's true that you'll get a headset with the frame but from the research I've done, you may be better off going ahead and getting the cane creek. I've read that they'll both work exactly the same for the first year or two, but the CC will still be smooth and flawless in 5 years whereas the Neco that you'll get probably won't. Especially if you plan on getting it wet a lot riding in nasty conditions. That said, lots of guys around here with high-end builds have used the Neco that comes with the frame and they're all just fine. Just thought I'd throw that out there as food for thought.
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Shimano is coming out with their XT 11 speed group in about 2 or 3 months. That is another option. Chain Reaction already has prices up for it.
Looked up the prices listed on Chain Reaction: $100 for the XT 11 speed cassette and $250 for the XTR 11 speed cassette. I can't believe the XTR 2.5X the price of XT. That's crazy. I can't imagine it being that much better.
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Check Merlin Cycles. Their prices can't be beat. And free shipping to the US with a purchase over $76.
They list the XTR 11 spd cassette at $192, XT not listed yet.
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It's true that you'll get a headset with the frame but from the research I've done, you may be better off going ahead and getting the cane creek. I've read that they'll both work exactly the same for the first year or two, but the CC will still be smooth and flawless in 5 years whereas the Neco that you'll get probably won't. Especially if you plan on getting it wet a lot riding in nasty conditions. That said, lots of guys around here with high-end builds have used the Neco that comes with the frame and they're all just fine. Just thought I'd throw that out there as food for thought.
Why spend the money initially when you don't need to? I would just wait for the bearings to go bad...then switch. Its a 20 min job taking your time and doing some cleaning. The lower bearing can actually be bought separately. The bike shop I used to work for would buy the BB30 bearings from a place that sold nothing but bearings just down the street. They were real cheap. The markup for bearings in a headset (or bottom bracket) is plain ridiculous. Its like buying CO2 cartridges at the bike shop for $4 each...when you can buy a box of 20 on eBay for $20.
My frame came also came with the Neco headset. I didn't use it. I took the two year old FSA bearings from my Specialized and put them in. Going to use it when the FSA bearings go bad. :)
Shimano is coming out with their XT 11 speed group in about 2 or 3 months. That is another option. Chain Reaction already has prices up for it.
Looked up the prices listed on Chain Reaction: $100 for the XT 11 speed cassette and $250 for the XTR 11 speed cassette. I can't believe the XTR 2.5X the price of XT. That's crazy. I can't imagine it being that much better.
The XTR has a carbon carrier and titanium cogs. Thats probably what makes up the difference in price. You're paying for the weight reduction. ;)
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Update (changed the brakes to XTR based on feedback) I think I've added all the bits... can someone double check that I have picked the right break configuration (feels like babysitting... I know :) )?
Headset
- Cane Creek 40-Series IS42 Integrated Headset Black, 42mm, 1.1/8", Short Cover €44.49
- Cane Creek 40-Series IS52-30 Bottom Assembly €29.99
Stem
- Thomson Elite X4 MTB Stem Black, 100mm, 31.8mm, 1.1/8", 0 Degrees €70.49
Brakeset
Shimano Saint M820 Disc Brake + Rotor Bundle (front) € 200.99
- Shimano Saint-Zee H-Type Disc Brake Pads Resin - Radiator Fin
- Shimano Saint M820 Disc Brake Black, Front - Right Hand Lever - I-Spec B
- Shimano XT-Saint RT81 Ice-Tech CL Disc Rotor Silver, 160mm
- Shimano Mount Adaptor Front Post to IS Black, Front 160mm,
Shimano Saint M820 Disc Brake + Rotor Bundle (rear) € 200.99
- Shimano Saint-Zee H-Type Disc Brake Pads Resin - Radiator Fin
- Shimano Saint M820 Disc Brake Black, Rear - Left Hand Lever - I-Spec B
- Shimano XT-Saint RT81 Ice-Tech CL Disc Rotor Silver, 160mm
- Shimano Mount Adaptor Rear Post to IS Black, 160mm
Forks
- RockShox SID XX Solo Air Forks - 15mm 2015 Black, 29", 120mm, 1.1/8" - 1.5" Tapered, 15mm - XLoc Sprint €626.49
Rear Shock
- Cane Creek DBInline Rear Shock165mm, 38mm € 498
Pedals
- Shimano XTR M9020 Trail SPD Clipless MTB Pedal €99.49
Grips
- Lizard Skins Logo Lock-On Grips Bonus Pack - Peaty
Tyres
- Continental X-King MTB Tyre - ProTection Black, 29", 2.2", Folding Bead €60.99 (each)
SRAM groupset €1016.19
- SRAM XX1 11 Speed Crankset Black, 76mm, 170mm, 156 Q-Factor, BB30 Grey, 68/73mm, English Thread
- SRAM Alloy GXP Bottom Bracket Grey, 68/73mm, English Thread
- SRAM XX1 Type 2 11 Speed Rear Mech 2014 - Black,
- SRAM XX1 11sp Trigger ShifterBlack, Right Hand Rear
- SRAM XX1 HollowPin 11 Speed Chain Silver
- SRAM X1 XG1180 11 Speed MTB Cassette Black, 10-42t
- SRAM XX1 Chainring Arctic Grey, 76mm, 32t
Stans No Tubes The Solution Tyre Sealant 2015
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Not sure if you are on a budget but here are a few suggestions, some of them cost saving.
1) The NECO headset that the Chiner vendors (or Chendors) sell is not bad, cost is around $15 vs $75 for the CaneCreek. Some people have gone through CaneCreek headsets just as quickly as NECO headsets so at least at first, maybe just try the headset that you can get with the frame.
2) The Thomson stems are very good, I have one on my IP-036 and it very nice, however, unless you are sure you want/need a 100mm stem, you might want to go with a cheaper stem at first to be sure that 100mm length fits you best.
3) Interesting that you want to go with the Saint brakes rather than the Shimano M785 XT brakes. Saints have 4 piston calipers vs the XT 2 piston calipers and I think the Saint brakes are a bit more expensive. Saints are more of a downhill brake and are a bit heavier. However, if that's what you want, don't let me change your mind.
Also, most people do 180mm front rotor, 160mm rear rotor. I know a few people who do the 203mm front rotor but that is more personal preference. I'd recommend 180r/160rr and get the Shimano spacer for the front brake caliper.
4) SID XX 120mm forks are very nice, you must not care about remote locking the rear shock since you've decided not to match up a Rockshox shock and do the dual X-lock Sprint setup.
Also, double check the sizing of the shock, I believe you need (6.5"x1.5"), and you may need to purchase the correct with bushing to match your frame.
5) XX1 drivetrain is my favorite. Depending not the trails you ride, you can choose to go with a 32T or 34T front chainring to start.
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Regarding the headset, I Have just replaced my Cane Creek 40 series lower assembly after only 5 months. Steering became stiff and after further inspection the lower bearing disintegrated in my hands once I had removed the forks ! My rig has been through lots of bad weather and rigorous cleaning but I would've expected more life from it ! I would go with the vendor supplied NECO as it can't be any worse, I replaced mine with the stainless Cane Creek but obviously can't comment on longevity yet!
I went with Formula brakes and haven't had to touch them since install. Happy with that. I have only heard good things about the top end Shimano too so I guess it would come down to price, looks etc !
Xx1 is the way forward ...
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On phone at the moment but do check your Xx1 configuration. You have BB30 cranks listed but GXP bottom bracket !
I was on some new trails yesterday and the XX1 gripshift really made a difference ! Lots of blind corners into technical
Uphill sections at speed, jumping from one end of the cassette to the other quickly saved me from a few stalls ! (I still had plenty of spills tho and the 36 took a battering as did the carbon cranks, I will update my build thread soon with details ! )
As CD suggests, if budget allows consider matching suspension and remote !
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I don't have any issues with the 4 BB30 XX1/X01 setups I've personally worked on and seen ridden for thousands of miles. YMMV. But you must make sure your frame and crank/BB match! Also, the 156 Q-factor is pretty narrow and some people report their heals hitting the frame. I'd personally get the slightly wider 168 Q-factor crank. The 156 Q-factor is really better suited for a road bike with it's narrow frame. Some guys claim they can't pedal properly on the wider 168 Q-factor, but I think often this isn't really the case. Most do great with the 168.
I think those are the wrong disk brake adaptors. If you have post mounts on your frame/fork, you need post mount to post mount. Not IS standard.
Like this: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/shimano-mount-adaptor-front-post-to-post/rp-prod13747
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You also probably want some crank boots to protect those carbon crank arms from rock strikes. A set like these:
https://www.google.com/search?q=crank+boots&num=40&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=hfdDVdTmCsLcsAWp9YDICw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg&biw=1013&bih=564
They come in tons of colors and can be found on eBay and elsewhere for $10-15.
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^^^^^^ Essential! ☺ ^^^^^^^
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I agree with Vipassana, go with the 168Q on the GXP XX1 cranks, and you don't need an adapter/spacer in the rear if you are only using a 160mm rotor.
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What's the "best" combination of front and rear shock for dual lockout?
I'm getting there... Lol
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I cannot say what is the best combination of fork and shock are. I have a Fox CTD front and rear shocks and they work very well together with the SCOTT Twin-Lock lever. The Rockshox SID and Monarch XX would also be a nice combination with their twin push-lock remote lever. Not sure if DT Swiss has a combo that works together with a twin lockout lever.
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Why spend the money initially when you don't need to? I would just wait for the bearings to go bad...then switch. Its a 20 min job taking your time and doing some cleaning. The lower bearing can actually be bought separately. The bike shop I used to work for would buy the BB30 bearings from a place that sold nothing but bearings just down the street. They were real cheap. The markup for bearings in a headset (or bottom bracket) is plain ridiculous. Its like buying CO2 cartridges at the bike shop for $4 each...when you can buy a box of 20 on eBay for $20.
My frame came also came with the Neco headset. I didn't use it. I took the two year old FSA bearings from my Specialized and put them in. Going to use it when the FSA bearings go bad. :)
Hmm. Ok, thanks for that input. I was basing my recommendation on upgrading to the Cane Creek headset over the Neco strictly off of reading other's experiences, so I'm glad to get an opposing viewpoint.
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If that's the kinda budget you're working with then you should just copy Carbon_Dude's build list he posted in this thread.
This.
Carbon_Dude's build is very thought out and doesn't really skimp on any of the components. If you're thinking about SRAM XX1 and asking about the best possible fork and shock for lockout compatibility, then it sounds like you have the budget to just copy the build list he posted in this thread.
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Frame arrived!
Starting to assemble all the bits.
Two questions:
- GPX BB comes with two spacers which I suppose need to be installed.
- Rear shock (Monarch) needs some bushings? Any advice where to get them? Do they need bearings?
thx
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Frame arrived!
Starting to assemble all the bits.
Two questions:
- GPX BB comes with two spacers which I suppose need to be installed.
- Rear shock (Monarch) needs some bushings? Any advice where to get them? Do they need bearings?
thx
Assuming you purchased an IP-036 frame:
1) For the SRAM GXP BB, you will need to put a spacer on each side. My GXP BB had the needed spacers included in the box.
2) You will need the correct bushing/bearing at each end that matches up to your frame. You should be able to order the bushings from the regular online vendors like CRC. You first measure the inside dimension of each of your mounting points, they can be different, and order that width, I think the ID of the hole is 8mm.
As a second option, you can spend more money and order needle bearings from RWC (http://enduroforkseals.com/id275.html (http://enduroforkseals.com/id275.html))
I have a FOX CTD and ended up only needing a different bushing at one end, I think I moved the other bushing from the top of the shock to the bottom as it was the correct size for that mounting position, they installed the new bushing, then installed the shock.