Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: lantz on September 18, 2023, 06:21:35 PM
-
Welp, just ordered the entire kit for my all-ali build.
Frame: TanTan TT-X38 (http://tantancycling.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=1089)
Fork: Included
Handlebars: Included, 100mm stem/400mm width.
Headset: Included
Spacers: Included
Seatpost: Included
Tape: Vento Solocush Black 2.7 (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803455970565.html)
Saddle: RYET 3D All-Carbon (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804673681213.html)
Groupset: L-TWOO eRX Carbon 2x12 Electronic (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805480174918.html)
Brake Rotors: ONIRII 140mm Centerlock (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804246204984.html)
Crankset: Praxis Zayante Powermeter (pulled off of old bike, one of three items I am carrying over)
Bottom Bracket: Praxis T47 M30
Cassette: ZTTO 12sp. 11-34 (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803293695278.html)
Chain: ZTTO 12sp. (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805054898553.html)
Wheels: Elitewheels Flow RFC TRN (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805216576788.html)
Tires: Conti GP5000 28 (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805110414623.html)
Tubes: CycLami TPU (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803966102090.html)
Pedals: Speedplay Zero (carryover from old bike)
Bottle Cages: Kocevlo Carbon Matte (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804856500443.html)
Computer Mount: ZRACE Out-front (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2261799813926498.html)
I wanted to build something almost entirely with chinese parts and really liked the TT-X38's geo/looks. I decided to go in on the L-TWOO just to give it a proper shake, I know the reviews have been mixed, but figure in the spirit of the build, I should swing for it.
All in, I'm at about $2200 USD and it should clock in at a bit over 17 lbs. Not bad for an "aero" bike hehe.
I'll update as parts arrive and I start to build - looking like mid-october for everything.
If ya'll have any critiques, happy to hear em - not to late to make some changes haha.
-
I have a full build coming as well. Already posted this in the other thread.
I'm curious to see whether there's any differences. I ordered this from the Ceccotti store on Aliexpress. As far as I can tell these frames are not made by TanTan but rather by DongGuan Sequel Sports Equipment - model number DCFR26.
I've asked them whether it's the same mold and they said that - and I quote - "each mold will be slightly different". Whatever that means. It looks completely identical apart from the one piece cockpit which I actually like more than the one that TanTan supplies.
I ordered it painted. I'm retiring my 2nd rim brake bike for this to build up a disc bike.
Frame/Fork/handlebar/seatpost: Sequel DCFR 26 / size 58 / cockpit 120mm x 40cm
Bottom Bracket: T47/DUB - supplied by seller (for 10USD)
bottle cage: supplied by seller as a gift - let's see
groupset: LTWOO er9 (taking a leap of faith here)
cassette: SROAD 11sp superlight (from other bike)
chain: SRAM PC1110 (from other bike)
crankset: ZRACE Rotor copy DUB crank / Magene P505 powermeter (bought the cranks used dirt cheap, I built a set of these on a bike for a friend and was impressed by the quality - powermeter comes from other bike)
pedals: Time Xpro 10 (from other bike)
brake calipers: I have a set of Campagnolo disc calipers (bought 2nd hand NOS) lying around which I will use with the LTWOO brifters.
brake discs: Shimano Deore RT-MT800 center lock discs (Got them new for 25 EUR / piece) and I trust these more than the offerings on aliexpress.
saddle: Elita One Power Saddle (from other bike)
wheels: Serenade Custom Build - this manufacturer sent me ads for years via Whatsapp and Telegram. I'm getting a wheelset built to my specs. / 55mm deep / 24mm internal / 31mm external / DT Ratchet style hub / Pillar 1420 spokes / final weight: around 1440g
Tires: Tufo Calibra Plus, 28mm, brown sidewall (I live close to Czech Republic where Tufo tires are made. They can be had very cheaply here and they are actually much better than their reputation implies).
The whole bike should come in at under 8kg including pedals and all accessories. I'm hoping for 7.7kg which will be light enough for me.
Build cost (including the stuff I took over from my other bike - some of which I bought used) should stay under 2000EUR.
Everything is already on its way to me except for the frame, which will be shipped tomorrow.
The seller has been very responsive and was eager to answer all my questions. They're also sending me regular updates on the process. Got a picture of my frame coming out of the paint shop yesterday.
They promised a lead time of 10-12 days which was exactly how long they needed in the end. Pretty happy with the process so far.
-
Oh shit, that's good info!
Working with TanTan was easy, really responsive, if a bit brief; awaiting shipping info.
Would love to hear how you find the er9 as you install it - also taking a leap that the eRX i get is the newer run with some of the updates that have been identified. We'll see!
The wheels sound like a dream - where they any more expensive than others?
-
Well, I'm not gonna lie. The recent videos by Trace Velo and China Cycling had me worried. I was very close to canceling my order but decided to try LTWOO er9 anyway. Honestly, I'm doing it mainly because I want to use the rest of the parts that I already have.
I already built a bike with RX12 so I know the brakes and I can say that they're totally fine. I don't like the weird adapters and the bulky look of the LTWOO calipers. I just happen to have Campagnolo calipers and I'm confident they'll work with these brifters since the braking unit in there is a Campagnolo copy anyway.
About the wheels: They're not expensive. Quite the contrary, actually. Hence, I'm very curious how these turn out.
These are the rims: https://serenadebikes.net/allroad-700c-carbon-bicycle-rims-disc-brake-55mm-depth-31mm-wide-p4512786.html
These are the hubs - DT Swiss 240 copies: https://serenadebikes.net/sr032-serenadebikes-hub-front-and-rear-24-holes-straightpull-disc-center-lock-road-thru-axle-p4499979.html
Total cost including tax free shipping was 515 USD. Which is pretty competitive pricing in my book.
The rims are also available in a hookless version. But I chose a hooked clincher rim for versatility.
Ordering process was pretty straightforward. Communication via Whatsapp. They answer during Chinese business hours so basically within 24h.
The do have the occasional discount like free shipping and they got a very wide range of wheels. There's an interesting sub 1.200g gravel wheelset which is dirt cheap, for instance. That might be the next upgrade for my gravel rig.
I'll keep you guys updated.
-
For sure, I definitely took a flyer in spite of the recent press, sounds like a lot of the issue was related to the battery cartridge which they seem to have updated, but I know there's still plenty of other criticism. Honestly, it's a fun project and exploration, more than anything, for me.
Wheels like nice and completely reasonable at that price, similar to what the Elitewheels ran me, as well.
I'll def keep ya looped as I start to get parts delivered.
-
just received same frame, and build is in progress:
Frame/Fork/handlebar/seatpost: Sequel DCFR 26 / size 52 / cockpit 90mm x 38cm frane weight 1060 gr without hardware, fork 385gr uncut
Bottom Bracket: T47/24 by kactus
groupset: Shimano Ultegra di2 12 full with 52/36 chainrings and 11-30 cassette
pedals: Favero Assioma Powermeter
saddle: Ryet 3d X6-3d weight 170 gr
wheels: ICAN aero 40
Tires: vittoria N.ext tubeless
they sent me round bolts for FD hanger, making impossible to setup, ordered flat ones to solve.
had to cut a little of seatpost (6cm), full inserted cant reach my saddle height.
have painted frame and fork with a removable vynil paint in chameleon color. ;D
added some weights
-
Nice - I'm still a few weeks out from my build - would love to see how yours progresses!
-
just received same frame, and build is in progress:
Frame/Fork/handlebar/seatpost: Sequel DCFR 26 / size 52 / cockpit 90mm x 38cm frane weight 1060 gr without hardware, fork 385gr uncut
Bottom Bracket: T47/24 by kactus
groupset: Shimano Ultegra di2 12 full with 52/36 chainrings and 11-30 cassette
pedals: Favero Assioma Powermeter
saddle: Ryet 3d X6-3d weight 170 gr
wheels: ICAN aero 40
Tires: vittoria N.ext tubeless
they sent me round bolts for FD hanger, making impossible to setup, ordered flat ones to solve.
had to cut a little of seatpost (6cm), full inserted cant reach my saddle height.
have painted frame and fork with a removable vynil paint in chameleon color. ;D
added some weights
Nice setup man
-
Almost done, with all the things in the photo Is 8 kg
Maybe i'll cut another cm off the fork in future
-
Damn that looks dope - making more excited for when all my shit finally gets here, haha.
I think I'll be right at 8kg or so too, with pedals and powermeter.
I'll take it. I'm a big dude, if I wanna make my ride lighter, I can just not have a couple of beers - lol.
-
Hell yeah - 2 day shipping turn around from the folks at TanTan is pretty tight.
Took some quick photos of the frame - first time chinese carbon buyer; thoughts on the finishing/quality? The top tube has a bit of fiber from the cut but meh - may have to level the brake mounts? We'll see.
Now just waiting for literally everything else to show up, lol.
I guess I can install the BB, haha.
The weight is mostly what was claimed:
Frame: 1107 claimed, 1173 actual.
Fork: 395 Claimed, 390 actual.
Seatpost: 224 claimed, 221 actual.
Handlebars: 367 claimed, 377 actual.
So, actuals are 69g heavier, 2.4 oz. Weeeee.
-
Yikes, that headset cup looks terrible.
I ordered my frame unpainted. And while my headset cup area was clean, it still caused some sloppy fitting of the headset bearing. Do a dry run of the bearings to make sure they are snug and level.
-
Yikes, that headset cup looks terrible.
I ordered my frame unpainted. And while my headset cup area was clean, it still caused some sloppy fitting of the headset bearing. Do a dry run of the bearings to make sure they are snug and level.
Yeah, definitely felt a little sloppy to me too - I'll get the headset in there and see how the fit is.
-
mine was ok and bearings have a very tight fit.
maybe tantan and sequel uses a different factory or QC? or maybe is just luck
-
mine was ok and bearings have a very tight fit.
maybe tantan and sequel uses a different factory or QC? or maybe is just luck
Just went and checked - neither are "tight" but the top actually has some small play, whereas the bottom doesn't.
Hmmm what to do.
-
Just went and checked - neither are "tight" but the top actually has some small play, whereas the bottom doesn't.
Hmmm what to do.
Loctite 638 retaining compound for bearings is what I would use.
-
Good shout.
Won’t be doing any install until more of the stuff shows up haha.
-
We're in business.
Just waiting for saddle and wheels (had to change wheel order because the ones i ordered weren't ready to ship, still a 10 day delay) but I have enough to get pretty deep into the build.
-
Almost done, with all the things in the photo Is 8 kg
Maybe i'll cut another cm off the fork in future
More and more wishing I had gone withe Sequel because that cockpick is so sleek god damn.
-
More and more wishing I had gone withe Sequel because that cockpick is so sleek god damn.
i choose sequel for the cockpit!
-
Trade ya!
=P
I guess I could just drop another couple bucks and level mine up haha.
-
@c.etzo: are you happy with the saddle, is it comfortable or is the 3D printed layer too thin?
-
@c.etzo: are you happy with the saddle, is it comfortable or is the 3D printed layer too thin?
I've done 20 hours in 2 weeks and it's ok ! Comfortable
-
@c.etzo: are you happy with the saddle, is it comfortable or is the 3D printed layer too thin?
My Ryet 3d printed saddle just landed as well, I won't have wheels to finish the build for another 10 days, but just feeling it out it feels really nice - my partner was like "what the hell, taht's so padded and squishy!"
Haha.
-
My Ryet 3d printed saddle just landed as well, I won't have wheels to finish the build for another 10 days, but just feeling it out it feels really nice - my partner was like "what the hell, taht's so padded and squishy!"
Haha.
Which one did you buy?
-
Which one did you buy?
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805684927838.html
X7P-3D
-
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805684927838.html
X7P-3D
I cannot reccomend this type of 3d print. It is nice at the beginning, but the eats into my contact point.
-
I cannot reccomend this type of 3d print. It is nice at the beginning, but the eats into my contact point.
Do you have any alternatives that you'd recommend?
-
I received my frameset today.
Like I said: I got the DCFR26 frameset from Sequel.
First impression: Some Good. Some Bad.
Everything was very well packed. Nothing to worry about.
The paintjob on the frame is decent enough for the money (580EUR including tax free shipping). A few imperfections but nothing major. Seatpost and Cockpit are painted in glossy black. Also here, the paintjob is not great. If you look close enough you can see that the paint is not a perfectly even surface. But it’s okay.
Brake mounts will most likely have to be faced. Headset bearing seats look okay. Not super clean but good enough. The seat tube has been finished internally and it looks ok. From what I can see, there’s some resin pooling from imperfections in the compaction internally but no huge wrinkles in the carbon. So while the inside is not super clean, again it’s okay.
Bottom bracket threads look good. No problem there.
The fork steerer is alright on the outside but super rough in the inside. It has probably been machined to spec after coming out of the mold. When looking down the steerer, there’s fibers splintering further down the steerer. It looks like a combination of rather dry prepreg - so a lack of resin and sloppy machining. It might not be a problem structurally. But it looks appalling. What’s funny is that at the same time there’s stickers saying “QC Passed” on both the frame and fork. Not sure what their QC standard is. But it is a bit of a joke TBH.
-
Quick update: No headset bearing play unlike what other users here have posted. The bearings sit snug. Not tight. Not loose. The cockpit just barely fits on the steerer. I mean you really have to wrestle it on there.
I did contact the seller about the issue I posted above. The seller insists that the frame has passed QC and that the loose carbon flakes inside the steerer are a non issue. I kind of agree that it is cosmetic. Still, IMO even at this price point this should not be sold like this. I’ve had lots of Chiner forks. Most of them quite cheap. But none of them (except one maybe) looked like this on the inside.
I’m unsure what to do. Start a dispute? Ask Aliexpress for a partial refund?
-
I’m unsure what to do. Start a dispute? Ask Aliexpress for a partial refund?
I would start a dispute, it's the only thing we can do to help raise the QC standards...
-
Yeah, that's tough - plus if it's not just cosmetic, you won't have much to say when/if something happens.
I kind of wish I had found the Sequel shop ahead of ordering directly from TanTan - the cockpit is better and it sounds like shipping was included for you, which I had to pay separate for.
Some of the QC issues with the TT-X38:
- Small (like, half mm) play in top headset seat.
- Internal routing channels were pretty rough, made routing the thick brake hoses a smidge difficult, but I got it sorted.
- BB interface was pretty gnarly, tbh - had to use a file and clean out some paint in the threads as well as fix a really clear gouge that spanned 3 threads and threatened the seat.
-
I’m about to cut the steerer down and then I’ll see if there’s any voids that might cause concern. I’m pretty sure it’s just cosmetic. But still, stuff like this shouldn’t pass QC. The seller has offered a small discount after the transaction has been closed for 15 days. Sounds like a scam tactic to me bc then I wouldn’t be able to do anything should they choose to ignore me, right?
Anyway. Apart from that the quality is actually good for the money.
About shipping: No that’s not included. I chose the more expensive shipping method with customs handling included. That usually works best and is the fastest.
-
I’m about to cut the steerer down and then I’ll see if there’s any voids that might cause concern. I’m pretty sure it’s just cosmetic. But still, stuff like this shouldn’t pass QC. The seller has offered a small discount after the transaction has been closed for 15 days. Sounds like a scam tactic to me bc then I wouldn’t be able to do anything should they choose to ignore me, right?
Anyway. Apart from that the quality is actually good for the money.
About shipping: No that’s not included. I chose the more expensive shipping method with customs handling included. That usually works best and is the fastest.
Ah that makes sense!
Hope the cut goes well!
-
Anyone have a lead on a replacement seat wedge cover? This little flimsy piece of bullshit rubber is obvnoxious.
Not sure what spec the seatpost is? What do I even search for lol.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/57rQWz2.jpg)
V1 is done and rideable.
Haven't had a chance to go out on it yet, hehe.
In like 10 days I'll swap that cockpit out.
Couple of change to the build:
- Ended up going tubeless instead of using TPU tubes.
- Elitewheels couldn't get me the 50s that I ordered in a timely manner, so I just had them swap me for some 47/25 with ceramic bearings *shrug*
Otherwise, everything else is the same!
-
Nice looking bike.
I think the cockpit does actually look nice.
Still waiting on my wheels to finish the build. Shipping takes awfully long.
I was thinking about how to secure the little piece of RD cable to save it from being pulled by accident. But I found that most ways to secure it with a zip tie actually restrict cable movement too much when the RD tilts.
I think LTWOO should make the plugs shorter in future iterations.
What's the final weight of the full build?
-
Pulling the battery housing into the seat post pretty high and just tightening into the port, I’ve found that neither the rear nor front derailleur has much slack outside of what it needs.
The cockpit I’m swapping with is just a fully integrated setup that’s a bit more squared off, I feel like it fits the whole rig better.
18.275 lbs with pedals, bottle cages, saddle and computer.
A bit heavier than I expected but not by much. I’m a big guy, so honestly, 100g here and there isn’t going to change *anything* about my ability to go up a hill, lol.
-
Did you use the Di2 seatpost battery holder?
-
Nope, I used a tip from another poster here and did a single wrap of bubble shipper (literally cut in half a bubble mailer that one of the parts came in lol) and used elecrtical tape to wrap it snug around the body.
Sits nicely in the back of the seatpost.
So nicely that, when I didn't have the seatpost secured and the frame fell off of it while it was in the bike stand (I was holding it, fortunately), the battery *stayed* in the post and the cables unplugged instead of it yanking the battery out.
It works really well - and is lightweight haha.
-
V1 is done and rideable.
Haven't had a chance to go out on it yet, hehe.
In like 10 days I'll swap that cockpit out.
Couple of change to the build:
- Ended up going tubeless instead of using TPU tubes.
- Elitewheels couldn't get me the 50s that I ordered in a timely manner, so I just had them swap me for some 47/25 with ceramic bearings *shrug*
Otherwise, everything else is the same!
Looks really nice! What size is the frame? And how does the saddle feel when you actually sit on it?
-
Looks really nice! What size is the frame? And how does the saddle feel when you actually sit on it?
Thanks! 54cm frame and the saddle is solid so far - not as padded as it feels under hand, which makes sense, but comfortable. Still dialing in the fit a smidge so I’ll report back!
-
(https://i.imgur.com/57rQWz2.jpg)
V1 is done and rideable.
Haven't had a chance to go out on it yet, hehe.
In like 10 days I'll swap that cockpit out.
Couple of change to the build:
- Ended up going tubeless instead of using TPU tubes.
- Elitewheels couldn't get me the 50s that I ordered in a timely manner, so I just had them swap me for some 47/25 with ceramic bearings *shrug*
Otherwise, everything else is the same!
Sharp looking build! One minor detail: front tire is mounted backwards (rear tire is done right).
-
Sharp looking build! One minor detail: front tire is mounted backwards (rear tire is done right).
HAHA I was waiting for someone to flag. I sent this to a buddy who is all about aesthetic and knew it'd be the first thing he said too!
Noticed it after mounting and din't want to peel it off and fuck with sealant and all that nonsense when it doesn't actually have any real impact on slicks other than aesthetic.
I'll probably flip it when I swap my bars since i'll be back in 'get liquid everywhere' mode bleeding out my brakes.
-
HAHA I was waiting for someone to flag. I sent this to a buddy who is all about aesthetic and knew it'd be the first thing he said too!
Noticed it after mounting and din't want to peel it off and fuck with sealant and all that nonsense when it doesn't actually have any real impact on slicks other than aesthetic.
I'll probably flip it when I swap my bars since i'll be back in 'get liquid everywhere' mode bleeding out my brakes.
I feel your pain :D It's like choosing between two evils. Fucking around with sealant or riding around knowing that some ppl will notice :)
I'll await your next photo :)
-
Totally not worth it to turn the tire around unless you're completely OCD about it. :)
Happened to me as well with the rear tire on my gravel bike after patching it from the inside. But I really can't be bothered to touch it unless I absolutely have to.
-
Totally not worth it to turn the tire around unless you're completely OCD about it. :)
Happened to me as well with the rear tire on my gravel bike after patching it from the inside. But I really can't be bothered to touch it unless I absolutely have to.
Haha I could see an argument for gravel at least because tread *is* meant to go a certain direction, depending on how what tire you were working with.
But these GP5000s are agnostic as hell.
-
Update!
I bought these (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805878269778.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805878269778.html)) integrated bars because I liked how flat they were and the aero top cap/integrated system.
Specs say they are Ryet, although didn't easily find Ryet comparibles.
Either way, they're shit - currently in a dispute for compensation as their spacers are literally designed to create a space all the way up the steerer tube and they can't be closed.
Additionally, and this is my own ignorance in not doing my due diligence, the bars really only support semi-integrated cabling, as they don't have an exit from the stem near the steerer tube and, as such, there's no feasible way you can have the stem sit on the spaces and still bring brake cables from the exit in the bars to the "integrated spacers".
Lastly, the space that sits in the headset to center the steerer tube is wildly too tall, making it unusable with their "fully integrated" spacer set.
A nice lesson for me to be a bit more discerning in ordering and, moreover, before disassembling the entirety of my cockpit, hehe.
-
HAHA I was waiting for someone to flag. I sent this to a buddy who is all about aesthetic and knew it'd be the first thing he said too!
Noticed it after mounting and din't want to peel it off and fuck with sealant and all that nonsense when it doesn't actually have any real impact on slicks other than aesthetic.
I'll probably flip it when I swap my bars since i'll be back in 'get liquid everywhere' mode bleeding out my brakes.
while you are at it, you also need to line up your logos with your valves ;)
-
I’m about to cut the steerer down and then I’ll see if there’s any voids that might cause concern. I’m pretty sure it’s just cosmetic. But still, stuff like this shouldn’t pass QC. The seller has offered a small discount after the transaction has been closed for 15 days.
Update on my frameset. Cutting the steerer revealed no issues. The steerer tube is fine and the flakes of carbon on the inside are really only a cosmetic issue. The seller kept his promise and sent me a refund yesterday. So to their credit, Sequel have been very responsive and they’ve been trying to find a solution. I’m satisfied with that.
Apart from the cabling issue in the chainstay my build went smoothly. No issues. I’m about to finish the bike tomorrow. I’ll post an update then.
-
while you are at it, you also need to line up your logos with your valves ;)
ON IT!
-
Update on my frameset. Cutting the steerer revealed no issues. The steerer tube is fine and the flakes of carbon on the inside are really only a cosmetic issue. The seller kept his promise and sent me a refund yesterday. So to their credit, Sequel have been very responsive and they’ve been trying to find a solution. I’m satisfied with that.
Apart from the cabling issue in the chainstay my build went smoothly. No issues. I’m about to finish the bike tomorrow. I’ll post an update then.
Sick, can't wait to see it!
-
Received my frameset from the Ceccotti store. Frame seems to be ok but the steerer tube is out of round very much: in one direction it's up to 28.99mm and perpendicular to that down to 28.46mm :( Measuring in more points one sees that it's actually elliptical. I can't even fit the cockpit onto the steerer. Seller says all their forks are like this and so far no one complained!
-
Received my frameset from the Ceccotti store. Frame seems to be ok but the steerer tube is out of round very much: in one direction it's up to 28.99mm and perpendicular to that down to 28.46mm :( Measuring in more points one sees that it's actually elliptical. I can't even fit the cockpit onto the steerer. Seller says all their forks are like this and so far no one complained!
Oh wow, this is pretty brutal - did you open a dispute?
On a separate note, the threading for the computer mount in my bars that came stock with the frame from TanTan just slipped right out when I was replacing the mount today. Woof.
-
Oh wow, this is pretty brutal - did you open a dispute?
Atm I'm still in a discussion with the seller and I'm in contact with a carbon repair expert to see what options there might be...
-
@lantz
Did you have any issues with setting up your LTWOO FD on this particular frame? Maybe it’s the ZRACE cranks that I'm using. But it seems I can’t set the FD outboard enough to reliably shift to the big ring. I got it at the outermost extreme position and it still won’t shift as reliably as I’d like it to.
I don’t thing the cranks chainline is to blame.
Either the FD hanger on this particular frame sits very far inboard (it kinda seems that way because the seat tube is obviously very narrow). Or I’m just too stupid to set up the FD. Maybe I need to recalibrate it? I’ve tried that but it doesn’t really do anything. The max outboard position in the app is 99. And it’s not enough.
Luckily, this frame has a bolt on FD hanger. So I might just have to shim it somehow.
-
@lantz
Did you have any issues with setting up your LTWOO FD on this particular frame? Maybe it’s the ZRACE cranks that I'm using. But it seems I can’t set the FD outboard enough to reliably shift to the big ring. I got it at the outermost extreme position and it still won’t shift as reliably as I’d like it to.
I don’t thing the cranks chainline is to blame.
Either the FD hanger on this particular frame sits very far inboard (it kinda seems that way because the seat tube is obviously very narrow). Or I’m just too stupid to set up the FD. Maybe I need to recalibrate it? I’ve tried that but it doesn’t really do anything. The max outboard position in the app is 99. And it’s not enough.
Luckily, this frame has a bolt on FD hanger. So I might just have to shim it somehow.
Not *really* - although I did have plenty of struggle getting the spacing and alignment where I wanted it - honestly, a lot of it was just me going too quickly and applying theory and techniques that I used in other installs with shimano and sram setups.
It wasn't until I took a beat and then read through the instructions that they sent, that I pretty easily got everything in place. I found that fucking with the limits too much kind of puts you in a no mans land - I completely reset the groupo and followed along with their install video/instructions and it all worked swimmingly.
The fucked up thing is that I dind't really do anything differently than I had done before, but there's something to be said about slowing down and being intentional, at least for me.
Additionally, I found that the Klein build video was super helpful too! (just google klein l-twoo)
If it's the same frame, in fact, you shouldn't need any shimming or anything.
-
I compared it to my VB-R218 with a Campagnolo crankset. The chainline of the outer chainring is basically exactly the same on both frames. About 49mm for both. So that's not the issue. The FD hanger does however sit considerably further inboard on the TT-X38/DCFR26 frame. The distance to the outer chainring is 29mm on this frame. It's 25mm on my VB-R218.
I made a plastic shim and put it under the hanger. It now sits at 27mm. It was much easier to set up. Still not super perfect, which might have to do with me using an 11sp chain with a 12sp crankset? I dunno. But it's better. I'll keep it that way.
-
So here it is:
The build process was a mixed affair. The things I thought would be an issue turned out to actually be pretty straightforward such as:
- Routing the brake lines through the headset and bars.
- Setting up the brakes rub free
- Getting proper preload on the headset
There were things that usually take minutes which took ages on this one, like:
- Routing the RD cable and plug through the chainstay. Like I said, I had to sand inside the chainstay at the RD cable exit port because there was a sharp edge in there. After that it went through pretty easily. But it took me literally a whole evening of trying.
- Setting up the FD - like I just wrote. What an odyssee. It might have to do with my particular cranks. But the FD hanger does sit very far inboard on this one. The seatube is narrow to begin with. There's a recessed area where the FD hanger bolts on to.
- My steerer wasn't smooth internally. It also wasn't 100% round. Not as bad as somebody else has posted here but still. Cutting it down revealed no issues. So that's good. But it was a bit of a headache.
I'm super happy with how the build turned out. It looks very nice. I was able to replicate my favorite position, but I had to slam the cockpit all the way down with only the top cap. I'm also super happy with the brakes. The Campy calipers look very sleek and they work absolutely flawless with the LTWOO brifters.
It's cool how on this bike there are components from LTWOO, Shimano and Campy working happily together. :)
Final weight is 7.85kg as pictured, including pedals, cages & Garmin mount. Not bad for a 58size frame. But there's a few weight saving components that I migrated from the bike that I retired. TPU tubes, the very light saddle, an SROAD monobloc cassette. Also, the Campy calipers easily save 50-100g to the LTWOO hardware. And the tires are ridiculously light also at roughly 210g a piece.
The wheels are very impressive. I'm super stoked to ride them. I've weighed them at 1480g. 24.5mm internal. 31mm external. These 28c tires measure just above 31mm on these rims. There's still ample tire clearance. That was a bit of a worry for me. But this frame easily clears 32mm tires. 32c labelled tires on rims as wide as these might be a different story. But honestly, I think this frame has all the clearance you could ever want from a road bike.
I haven't ridden it. The weather is awful here atm and I probably won't get out on the road before Sunday. I'll give this a proper shakedown and at least a few hundred km until I will give a verdict.
-
Nice looking bike, but you forgot one important thing! You didn’t make your bed this morning!
-
Good looking rig! I would like to see that bike in good light outdoors.
-
Best looking X38 in here. Congrats Sebastian!
-
Very cool bike Sebastian - congrats! May I ask how much out of round your steerer tube is (I'm the guy with the very out of round one)?
-
Best looking X38 in here. Congrats Sebastian!
Rude. :P
-
Proper outdoor pics will follow.
The steerer was out of round by around 0.2-0.3mm IIRC.
Luckily, it was most prominent on the very top of the steerer - so at the part that I cut off anyway.
It’s much less of an issue where the stem actually sits and it was easy to slide on and off after I cut the fork.
Also the chain is a tad short because the cage on this RD is considerably longer than on my old bike. Combined with the plus in spring tension that this RD has it creates a lot of tension when on the bigger cogs in the back. Almost like on a 1x setup. That might explain why the front is hesitant to shift sometimes particularly when I spin the crank slowly.
-
Rude. :P
Note how Pat made sure to not include his own in that comment? ;) ;D
-
Note how Pat made sure to not include his own in that comment? ;) ;D
No rig with gold mailbox letter stickers on it can be considered.
I kid, kind of wish I had gotten mine unpainted tbh - the raw carbon is sick.
I took mine out for 20 miles this weekend and things felt pretty good.
Still dialing in the tuning on the group set - was a little jumpy as I went up and down but that’s to be expected as I fine tune and the chain starts to stretch a bit. Shakedown is feeling good tho.
-
First 100k done. No real issues apart from fit. I needed to dial the saddle in and refine the position. I tried a 170 crank on this one mainly cuz I got it cheap and there can be a benefit to shorter cranks. I absolutely hate it. I got 175s on all my other bikes and it just feels like I got no leverage on the crankarms when standing up and sprinting up hills. So that will have to go. I found a used sram crank. Luckily I won't have to get another BB. The dub BBs are merely BB30 BBs with a delrin spacer left and right. So just pop these out and put a BB30 crank in and maybe readjust spacing. Also the pedals will have to go. I got so used to the Assioma pedals on my other bike that I'm gonna get a pair of Look Keo-like pedals. The Time pedals feel just way too loose and are giving me anxiety to accidently clip out.
The bike feels great and plenty fast. I got very windy autumn weather here atm. So it's hard to tell just how quick it is. It feels slightly more suceptible to cross winds than my VB-R218. The bars are a pleasant surprise. They feel super solid, very stiff and very comfy. I love the hood shape of the LTWOO. The hands just fall in place. The bike is actually very very comfy which might have to do with the wheels and wide tires. Also, the corner grip with these wheels is off the charts. It's crazy how planted it feels around bends.
The handling is more neutral and a lot more forgiving than my VB-R218. That's no surprise as the 218 has a very steep steering angle and super aggressive steering characteristic. This one is a bit more muted.
The only issue I got is with the front wheel. I get disc rub when standing up. And the rotor has slight play on the hub interface when I rock the front wheel back and forth under braking despite the lockring being torqued down. A bit of research reveals that this seems to be a common issue with centerlock. It might have to do also with the cheap color matched lockrings that I got on Aliexpress. Not sure. I'll get it sorted. It's annoying. This is the first centerlock wheelset that I got. I had 6 bolt interface hubs on my gravel bike where I never had troubles like this. Makes me wonder just what exactly the alleged benefit of centerlock is supposed to be apart from creating another standard.
There's really not anything bad I can say about the LTWOO er9. It just works super reliable. I rode in bad weather. The group got covered in road grime. I washed the bike afterwards. Everything seems solid. So far.
-
So I took off the rotor. I see no wear marks on neither the hub nor the rotor splines. I applied a Layer of textile tape between the rotor and the hub splines. Torqued it down. But I still get play if I want to. I might try and apply some Loctite bearing retaining compound between the splines and see if that fixes it.
Apart from that: One cool thing about this frame is that because of the shape of the downtube it actually shields the lower headset bearing from road spray. Maybe if you ride in torrential rain and through huge puddles there might be some water ingress. But just riding on wet roads with a bit of rain leaves the lower headset completely dry and free of dirt.
On my VB-R218 the lower headset bearing is shot after doing a few wet rides this season.
-
Appreciate your updates - bike is looking very sick out on the road!
Agree about the L-Twoo britfter hoods, love the feel. They're a smidge taller and a little thinner than my 105s and they just feel great.
-
Update on my centerlock rotor issues. I tried tape, I tried Loctite 601, I tried threadlocker. It helps but it doesn't solve the issue. Incidentally, I talked to two friends of mine who both only realized upon me asking them that they also can make their centerlock rotors rock back and forth on their hubs if they try. It really seems to be a centerlock problem that everyone just agrees to leave alone. Even DT Swiss themselves answered to a guy on a German speaking MTB forum and basically said that it's a problem of tolerances between different manufacturers that is annoying but doesn't pose a security risk and therefore should just be ignored. I have another set of lockrings on the way which I will try together with micro shims and see if that solves the issue. If not, then I'll consider this case closed anyhow. I don't notice it when riding. Braking is fine. It doesn't look like there's wear on either the rotor or the hub splines. I guess it's just another case of the bicycle industry inventing a new standard and then failing to meet its tolerances.
-
I've had chain slip off of my big ring when pushing power twice now - I don't think it's the limiter/positioning; I'm wondering if using a 11sp crankset with 12spd setup is creating some minor slippage (or) if my chainrings are a bit worn and need replacing (or) there's just enough play in the frame that the chainline is adjusting when I drop 1000w...
Either way, i have a gash in my ankle from a tooth on my chainring, so that's gnarly.
Hehehehe.
-
I've had chain slip off of my big ring when pushing power twice now - I don't think it's the limiter/positioning; I'm wondering if using a 11sp crankset with 12spd setup is creating some minor slippage (or) if my chainrings are a bit worn and need replacing (or) there's just enough play in the frame that the chainline is adjusting when I drop 1000w...
Either way, i have a gash in my ankle from a tooth on my chainring, so that's gnarly.
Hehehehe.
Yes, 12sp chains on 11sp chainrings can slip. I've had just that happen to me as well on my VB-R218 frame. When I upgraded my Campagnolo groupset from 11 to 12sp I thought I can just keep the chainrings. But the chain slipped on the big ring as soon as I put a lot of torque through it when climbing. I switched to 12sp chainrings. No issues at all. Same cassette. Same chain.
I found my DCRF26 frame to be pretty stiff in the BB area - probably stiffer than my VB-R218. I'm crap at sprinting, though. So your experience might differ from mine.
-
I put 200k on the bike with no issues. Really liking it so far but I feel hampered by the 170 cranks.
I got a pair of SRAM S900 in 175 lying around but it turns out I do need another BB for them. The DUB BB I got uses plastic spacers. But if you do take them out then the inner race of the bearings is actually ever so slightly oversized and the BB30 axle has play. So the bike is sitting idle until I put the new cranks in. I’m curious to see how it feels then.
-
Yes, 12sp chains on 11sp chainrings can slip. I've had just that happen to me as well on my VB-R218 frame. When I upgraded my Campagnolo groupset from 11 to 12sp I thought I can just keep the chainrings. But the chain slipped on the big ring as soon as I put a lot of torque through it when climbing. I switched to 12sp chainrings. No issues at all. Same cassette. Same chain.
I found my DCRF26 frame to be pretty stiff in the BB area - probably stiffer than my VB-R218. I'm crap at sprinting, though. So your experience might differ from mine.
Sounds like that's the culprit. I'll look to swap the rings - use any from Ali?
-
Sounds like that's the culprit. I'll look to swap the rings - use any from Ali?
I'm using ZRACE chainrings in the 52/36 combination and I'll be moving these over to my new crankset. I'm not sure I'd recommend them, though. They don't shift particularly smooth with LTWOO er9. It does shift but the ramps on the big ring seem to not be working that well. Again, this might also have to do with me using an 11sp chain with these rings? I dunno. I have a set of original SRAM rings in 50/34 lying around and maybe I put them on just to see if shifting improves.
-
Ah, yeah - I'm using a 12sp chain with 10/11 chainrings.
I bought some rings from this us-made company literally called USAMade https://usamadeco.com/ (https://usamadeco.com/) - attractive prices and I appreciate someone trying to challenge the industry a bit, esp. from domestic soil.
Since they are so affordable, figured I'd take a swing at Ovals, haha.
This bike is never going to work correctly because I won't stop fucking with it hehe.
-
First 100k done. No real issues apart from fit. I needed to dial the saddle in and refine the position. I tried a 170 crank on this one mainly cuz I got it cheap and there can be a benefit to shorter cranks. I absolutely hate it. I got 175s on all my other bikes and it just feels like I got no leverage on the crankarms when standing up and sprinting up hills. So that will have to go. I found a used sram crank. Luckily I won't have to get another BB. The dub BBs are merely BB30 BBs with a delrin spacer left and right. So just pop these out and put a BB30 crank in and maybe readjust spacing. Also the pedals will have to go. I got so used to the Assioma pedals on my other bike that I'm gonna get a pair of Look Keo-like pedals. The Time pedals feel just way too loose and are giving me anxiety to accidently clip out.
The bike feels great and plenty fast. I got very windy autumn weather here atm. So it's hard to tell just how quick it is. It feels slightly more suceptible to cross winds than my VB-R218. The bars are a pleasant surprise. They feel super solid, very stiff and very comfy. I love the hood shape of the LTWOO. The hands just fall in place. The bike is actually very very comfy which might have to do with the wheels and wide tires. Also, the corner grip with these wheels is off the charts. It's crazy how planted it feels around bends.
The handling is more neutral and a lot more forgiving than my VB-R218. That's no surprise as the 218 has a very steep steering angle and super aggressive steering characteristic. This one is a bit more muted.
The only issue I got is with the front wheel. I get disc rub when standing up. And the rotor has slight play on the hub interface when I rock the front wheel back and forth under braking despite the lockring being torqued down. A bit of research reveals that this seems to be a common issue with centerlock. It might have to do also with the cheap color matched lockrings that I got on Aliexpress. Not sure. I'll get it sorted. It's annoying. This is the first centerlock wheelset that I got. I had 6 bolt interface hubs on my gravel bike where I never had troubles like this. Makes me wonder just what exactly the alleged benefit of centerlock is supposed to be apart from creating another standard.
There's really not anything bad I can say about the LTWOO er9. It just works super reliable. I rode in bad weather. The group got covered in road grime. I washed the bike afterwards. Everything seems solid. So far.
Looks really nice, the color is great! How do you like the wheels? I'm considering getting them as well, pretty much with the same setup with 28mm Tufo's.
-
I’ve only done around 250k so far. Finally put 175mm cranks and Look pedals on there so I don’t feel like riding a child’s bike anymore. :-)
But it’s raining here all the time atm. So either Im running my VB-R 218 on the turbo or my gravel bike with full length mudguards. But it’ll be more dry this week. So hopefully I’ll have the chance to test it a bit more.
These Tufos and Tufo tires in general are a bit of a revelation to me. I’m running the Thundero gravel on my other bike which honestly is the best gravel tire I’ve ever ridden. Tufo has a bad reputation which stems mainly from their low end tubulars. But I think they’re massively underrated.
The wheels are plenty fast. I’m still on the fence as to whether I find them stiff enough. More riding needed. Build quality is very good. Labels are cheap vinyl stickers. I don’t really mind. They are very good value for money. But bear in mind that 28s come very wide on these. And because of the huge internal width you can’t really put on anything smaller than 28s. But these wheels and 28c tires feels is the goldilocks standard for me. Plenty fast and yet super comfy. And the tires match the rims in width pretty much exactly, so it should still be aero.
-
Short follow-up on my steerer tube issue: I opened a dispute on Aliexpress and after 3 weeks of sending photos, documents about acceptable tolerances etc. I got a refund of 100 Euro + 20 Euro because the seller sent me a cockpit of the wrong size (400x100 instead of 420x90). Now I'm going to cut the steerer, sand down the areas which are out of specs the most and then send the fork to a carbon repair guy who will produce and glue in an alloy insert to strengthen the steerer.
Btw this is my frame (chameleon blue/purple & matt black):
-
Quick update on my build:
Replaced the handlebars with "The One" copies - lost a bit more on the steerer so I'm a bit more slammed - all in all, they're great. Kind of wish the hardware as black, but whatever.
Swapped my Praxis 52/36 11spd rings with "USAMade" oval "sharktooth" rings - 50/34 - first time on ovals and first time trying this american-made brand that aims to offer value on par with asian makers here in the US and gotta say - they're pretty rad. Really like the feel and they shift super well!
I'd say the bike is as close to "done" as it's gonna get. Need to bleed the brakes out a bit more (did a full hose drain and swap when I swapped bars) and give it a nice clean/proper photoshoot haha.
I've got the eRX mostly dialed in, as well, although I get an occassional skip in the 7/8 cogs, just need to tune it up a smidge, I wager.
-
Quick update on my build:
Replaced the handlebars with "The One" copies - lost a bit more on the steerer so I'm a bit more slammed - all in all, they're great. Kind of wish the hardware as black, but whatever.
Nice and clean! Well done. How do you like that saddle?
-
Great looking bike. Sadly I had to disassembled my x38 so I could use the groupset and saddle on my Yishun R086D.
I'm very tempted rebuild my x38 next spring to see if my feelings about its riding dynamics will changed. Perhaps give the frame a proper paint job, face the caliper mounts, and use decent headset bearings. The frame is just too aero and good looking to sit in a box collecting dust.
-
Quick update on mine. I'm approaching 500km and I've ironed out all the small details and issues. Currently where I live, it's either dark, raining or snowing so I've been riding this bike pretty much exclusively on the trainer for the last few weeks.
I faced the disc brake mounts and now the brakes are perfectly free of rub. I bought this little tool from Icetoolz that I really was quite skeptical about. But it worked a treat. It's nowhere near to what workshops are using but it's way better than using sandpaper.
Also, I swapped the cheap lockrings for original ones from Shimano. I can still rock the rotors back and forth on the hubs. I used a washer on the front. That improved the issue but it didn't completely stop it. At this point, I'm just going to accept that that's how it is with Centerlock rotors apparently. Still, if you're used to 6 bolt rotors which obviously stay put where they are, are lighter and cheaper, it's a bit hard to accept honestly. I could have bought the wheelset with 6 bolt hubs, had I wanted to. Looking back, I wish I did.
Speaking of the hubs. After just two rides in the wet, the front hub started sounding super rough. I popped away the bearing seals to find that they were bone dry. I greased them but it's too late I reckon. I will be able to ride them a bit longer but I guess the bearing races and balls are already corroded to the point where grease will only delay the inevitable. They're regular 6802s and easy to replace. This is a 500 EUR wheelset after all, so I guess it was bound to happen.
I put on 175mm Sram cranks and these super cheap pedals from Xpedo (I know, the name). These are real gems. They are rock solid. They have a very wide range of adjustment and they are only around 230g whilst having a very wide platform. They are identical in size with the Favero Assiomas I have on my other bike so they feel like home to me. And they cost just 40 EUR. If you like the Look pedal standard, these are a steal.
All in all, I'm super happy with the bike. I will eventually upgrade it to 12sp bc I do notice it compared to my 12sp road bike. There are one or two gear jumps which are a tad too big for my liking.
The LTWOO groupset is just super easy to live with. I like it a lot. It shifts very smooth and never really skips a beat. The only criticism I really have is the tactile feel of the shifter buttons. It's too vague for my liking. And shifting feels slow at times. You get used to it and it's not really a deal breaker. But I'm used to Campy Record 12sp on my other bike which is probably the most direct feeling mechanical drivetrain there is. The moment you move the paddle is when the shift happens. Compare that to clicking a button, waiting for the ECU to compute the command and only then does the derailleur move, it just feels slow. It all happens in milliseconds but it's still noticeably slower. Still, I take this over having to route 2 shift cables and 2 brake lines through a headset bearing any day.
Sorry for the huge photos. After the lates update, iOS won't let me resize the images anymore.
-
I can still rock the rotors back and forth on the hubs.
That's definitely not normal and could even be a savety risk. The rotors shouldn't just hold from the teeth but from pressure induced friction.
-
That's definitely not normal and could even be a savety risk. The rotors shouldn't just hold from the teeth but from pressure induced friction.
Yes, I have 4 bikes with centerlock rotors and used a lot of different wheelsets, and they all were rock solid...
-
The rotors are not loose by any means. They do not rattle or anything like that. It takes a considerable amount of force, rolling the bike back and forth whilst pulling the brake. If I do that and try hard, I can make the rotor move on the splines despite the lockring being torqued down. It obviously never happens during riding because braking force only ever occurs in one direction, unless you track stand or do trial riding.
The internet is virtually full of users reporting exactly that same problem. Just google it and you'll find plenty of examples with all sorts of rotor and wheel combinations in MTB and road cycling alike. And like I said, a representative of DT Swiss literally told a user on a German MTB forum to ignore it, saying that it wasn't a safety risk.
Also, I've checked on two other bikes of friends of mine only to find that their wheels have that same issue. One of them being an Elite Wheels Edge wheelset, the other one a gravel bike. Both said, they've never even realised that this was possible.
-
The rotors are not loose by any means. They do not rattle or anything like that. It takes a considerable amount of force, rolling the bike back and forth whilst pulling the brake. If I do that and try hard, I can make the rotor move on the splines despite the lockring being torqued down. It obviously never happens during riding because braking force only ever occurs in one direction, unless you track stand or do trial riding.
The internet is virtually full of users reporting exactly that same problem. Just google it and you'll find plenty of examples with all sorts of rotor and wheel combinations in MTB and road cycling alike. And like I said, a representative of DT Swiss literally told a user on a German MTB forum to ignore it, saying that it wasn't a safety risk.
Also, I've checked on two other bikes of friends of mine only to find that their wheels have that same issue. One of them being an Elite Wheels Edge wheelset, the other one a gravel bike. Both said, they've never even realised that this was possible.
Oh, OK, that's something else :) I also have some slight play on the wheel when I press the brakes and wiggle the front wheel while on the ground. I guess it's just a combination of the play in rotor and pads fitting.
-
The rotors are not loose by any means. They do not rattle or anything like that. It takes a considerable amount of force, rolling the bike back and forth whilst pulling the brake. If I do that and try hard, I can make the rotor move on the splines despite the lockring being torqued down. It obviously never happens during riding because braking force only ever occurs in one direction, unless you track stand or do trial riding.
The internet is virtually full of users reporting exactly that same problem. Just google it and you'll find plenty of examples with all sorts of rotor and wheel combinations in MTB and road cycling alike. And like I said, a representative of DT Swiss literally told a user on a German MTB forum to ignore it, saying that it wasn't a safety risk.
Also, I've checked on two other bikes of friends of mine only to find that their wheels have that same issue. One of them being an Elite Wheels Edge wheelset, the other one a gravel bike. Both said, they've never even realised that this was possible.
Are you sure that the play is coming from the centerlock?
I also notice the play you mention, but it results from pad movement in the calipers on my Bikes (105 Disc r7000 and r8150 disc).
Or can you actually rotate your rotors by hand on the centerlock interface?
-
I'm 100% sure it's the rotors. I got pad movement on my gravel bike for instance and I'm aware of that. But I can clearly see that the wheel is moving whilst the rotor is not, meaning I can rotate the rotor on the hub, if only by the tiniest amount. But still. Also, because this issue exists, you can get micro shims from Jagwire and Tune to alleviate exactly this problem. And while I found that it helps, it doesn't completely stop it.
-
I don’t get how you can have that more than one time. I would have thought that any “play” would have been taken out the first time you brake, then the rotor would rest against the “stop” and from there on, wouldn’t move again on the next braking. It had to be seriously lose to “vibrate” back in a more forward position to regain some play.
-
It doesn't vibrate. It doesn't move on its own. You can't move it by hand.
And like I said, there is no play during normal riding obviously. Once the rotor has moved against a stop on the hub it won't move under normal riding conditions and normal braking force. I can however get it to move back and forth if I pull the brake and move my wheel back and forth on the ground with enough force. It is not a functional issue, I believe. But I still find it weird, coming from 6 bolt rotors on my gravel bike where this is impossible, obviously.
-
Ok i better understand. The center lock is purely a marketing and competitive choice: tooling to make center lock is more expensive, wiping some of the cheaper competition.
It’s however a lot easier to drill 6 indexed holes precisely than it is to machine à complicated pattern…
After being away from biking for 20y, I found some of shenanigans from the big companies to be really pathetic and it was part of the drive for me to built my own bike with Chinese components
-
I faced the disc brake mounts and now the brakes are perfectly free of rub. I bought this little tool from Icetoolz that I really was quite skeptical about. But it worked a treat. It's nowhere near to what workshops are using but it's way better than using sandpaper.
Intrerested in the Icetoolz Shuriken #E272 facing tool that you used: I understand how the screw mechanism would work for postmount.
How did you use the tool on the flatmount system, can you expand?
-
The rotors are not loose by any means. They do not rattle or anything like that. It takes a considerable amount of force, rolling the bike back and forth whilst pulling the brake. If I do that and try hard, I can make the rotor move on the splines despite the lockring being torqued down. It obviously never happens during riding because braking force only ever occurs in one direction, unless you track stand or do trial riding.
The internet is virtually full of users reporting exactly that same problem. Just google it and you'll find plenty of examples with all sorts of rotor and wheel combinations in MTB and road cycling alike. And like I said, a representative of DT Swiss literally told a user on a German MTB forum to ignore it, saying that it wasn't a safety risk.
Also, I've checked on two other bikes of friends of mine only to find that their wheels have that same issue. One of them being an Elite Wheels Edge wheelset, the other one a gravel bike. Both said, they've never even realised that this was possible.
I had that once on my Reynolds Enduro Black Labels. But the only reason was the lockring got loose. It was how I noticed the lockring got loose.
My level of information is the rotors should actually hold from pressure friction and the teeth are just a redundancy, to stay save if the lockring gets loose. You might loose this redundancy accepting it.
Btw: On my Elite Edge front wheel I had initially difficulties fixing the rotor too. But all I had to do was to give it a little more torque than I would usually do. Later I found some long splinter coming off the thread. The issue came from an unclean thread in the hub and "recutting" it fixed it. I had no issues since then, running about 2000km/30000hm with it. No movement at all.
-
Intrerested in the Icetoolz Shuriken #E272 facing tool that you used: I understand how the screw mechanism would work for postmount.
How did you use the tool on the flatmount system, can you expand?
It’s really only a tool that scrapes the paint away and creates a paint free surface where the caliper sits. It’s way too blunt to do any actual milling and cutting. On my frame it was all that was needed to have the caliper sit evenly against the metal inserts in the fork and against the frame in the back. I’d say it’s worth it if you can get it cheap enough. It’s quicker and much more convenient than sandpaper. I don’t think it’s really any different with postmount. The bolts are just sitting further away from each other.
-
It’s really only a tool that scrapes the paint away and creates a paint free surface where the caliper sits. It’s way too blunt to do any actual milling and cutting. On my frame it was all that was needed to have the caliper sit evenly against the metal inserts in the fork and against the frame in the back. I’d say it’s worth it if you can get it cheap enough. It’s quicker and much more convenient than sandpaper. I don’t think it’s really any different with postmount. The bolts are just sitting further away from each other.
I can see how you used it with the fork, screw in the screw and then turn the tool. But at the rear? There is no thread in the frame, so any bolt or adapter might misalign the tool?
-
I can see how you used it with the fork, screw in the screw and then turn the tool. But at the rear? There is no thread in the frame, so any bolt or adapter might misalign the tool?
I used a long screw, a nut and a washer. Worked well enough.
-
Does anyone have an update on the ride experience of this frame after some more mileage? Any issues, creaking or slippage to worry about?
I'm tempted to pull the trigger on purchasing this frame from the Sequel store for my first bike build.
-
Does anyone have an update on the ride experience of this frame after some more mileage? Any issues, creaking or slippage to worry about?
I'm tempted to pull the trigger on purchasing this frame from the Sequel store for my first bike build.
No issues for me except for the usual sharp edges inside the frame at cable entry and exit ports here and there. But I consider this normal for a frame in this price range. No issues with the BB threads. It's too early however for a verdict. The bike is sitting on the trainer most of the time ATM and I've literally done the first outdoor ride in weeks yesterday. I'm still dialing in my position on this frame. Not 100% happy with it yet so I need more time on it. What I can say is that it feels surprisingly comfy. But I do ride wider tires on this so I can't compare it like for like with the road bikes I had before.
The beefy BB area feels plenty stiff. More so than on my other bikes which is particularly noticeable (and visible) on the turbo. I like that. All in all, the bike feels good for sustained efforts and holding a high average speed. I also like the feeling when sprinting (though I suck at sprinting so my opinion might not be worth much). I like the feeling less when climbing which might be because I'm not yet 100% satisfied with my seated position. But also during standing efforts, the bike feels somehow slower on climbs. I feel it has to do with the bigger tire volume and the tires squishing more during standing efforts. I'm still experimenting with tire pressure. I'm at around 60psi up front and 65 in the back for 28c tires (measuring 31mm). But particularly when doing standing efforts, it feels a bit soft to me. I'm 82kg, so on the heavy side.
-
I have to correct myself. I realised today that the seatpost on my frame has indeed slipped by about 1cm. I put some textile grip tape on the seatpost. I hope this helps. I torqued the seatpost wedge to around 6nm.
-
Another small issue I found: The seatpost wedge will suffer from water ingress, almost by design since it's sitting on the top tube in front of the seatpost. The rubber cover does practically nothing to keep water out there. It just does not sit tight enough. IME most of the steel bolts that come on the hardware with frames like these are of a very low grade steel. So they rust - very quickly. The bolts in the seatpost wedge were rusty. And on my VB-R 218, the retaining bolts for the BB cover under the frame did rust very quickly as well. So it's best to use something to alleviate that problem. Grease, copper paste or something else. I've also put a layer of protective paint on bolts in the past (nail lacquer works well, I found).
-
Aren't you in Germany? Back in the 90s when I was there, I replaced a lot of frame hardware with off the shelf V4A stainless steel bolts and rust was no longer a problem.
-
Yes. Sure. But some of these bolts are rather specific in that they are very short. Or those tiny grub screws in the seatpost wedge and stem of the VB-R218 are not easily found in stainless steel. But replacing them is obviously your best option. I'll see if grease does the job. Otherwise I'll replace it somewhere down the line.
-
I think you are absolutely insane to be riding that fork. Scary.
-
I think you are absolutely insane to be riding that fork. Scary.
Not sure who you’re refering to.
-
Not sure who you’re refering to.
This
(http://i.imgur.com/IUoAHhK.jpg)
-
I think you are absolutely insane to be riding that fork. Scary.
I respect your opinion. I’ll report back here regularly if I’m still alive.
-
My steerer looks similar from the inside. For other reasons, I showed it to a carbon repair expert (see above) and he said that this is no problem.
-
This
(http://i.imgur.com/IUoAHhK.jpg)
Highly suggest you to stop riding carbon-made frames and forks then.
-
I'm actually in the process of prepping my x38 frameset for a proper paint job and rebuild for next season. The uniqueness of the frame (because it's a copy) is unmatched for the price, and is just too good to collect dust.
In my frivolous quest to pump out content (and need of a groupset for my beloved Yishun R086-D) I may have possibly been too quick to cast judgement on the x38. That's what I get for building it toward the end of the season. This exact scenario also played out with my VB-177 end of last year.
-
Highly suggest you to stop riding carbon-made frames and forks then.
I've owned 7 OEM frames and none of them looked like that!!!
-
I've owned 7 OEM frames and none of them looked like that!!!
I agree with you. A product should not be sold like this. I said as much in my earlier posts. Having inspected it closely after cutting the fork down, I don’t think it’s unsafe to ride. Do I know that 100% for sure? No. But no one does unless they x-Ray their frames and forks.
Still, while I’m happy to ride this bike and choose to take the risk, I personally do not recommend this seller based on my own experience.
If I was given the choice again, I’d either buy from TanTan or go elsewhere.
The communication was always friendly and I did get a partial refund. But the seller did not really seem to acknowledge the problem.
-
The communication was always friendly and I did get a partial refund. But the seller did not really seem to acknowledge the problem.
This exactly matches my experiences with the seller. I too wouldn't buy there again. Would be interesting to know how TanTan handles cases of obvious deficiencies like my very much unround steerer tube.
-
1000km update.
Despite what it looks like in the pic, I've ridden this bike almost exclusively in very cold, very windy and very wet weather.
No issues.
The slipping seatpost seems fixed. I marked it with tape and it hasn't moved in several hundred kilometres now. So hopefully it's sorted.
The brakes are working very well now. The discs and pads took a while to get properly bedded in bc I live in a flat area so I don't brake much to begin with. Add to that the fact that I did a lot of indoor riding, it took some time. But now they work super nice. No squealing. Great modulation.
I'm happy with my fit on this bike now. I feel at home when riding it.
My impression is that it is fast in a straight line. No question.
Cornering is also very confidence inspiring on this bike - also because of the wider tires.
It's very stiff. The only area where I see a lack in stiffness is the headtube area under sprinting efforts. I am by no means a powerful sprinter. But particularly when the speed gets higher in sprints, north of 55 kph, I got it to wobble slightly when pulling on the drops. But that's me being picky.
In terms of compliance it feels slightly imbalanced. The rear feels quite comfy but the front can feel pretty harsh when going over rough roads - despite the headtube not being super stiff. I guess it's just a result of the tube shapes, the geometry and the fact that this frame probably doesn't have a super sophisticated layup in the carbon.
Also, my impression still is that this is not a frame well suited to climbing. Whenever I go uphill, it just doesn't feel that quick. I'm not necessarily slower than on my other bike but it kind of feels that way, despite having my position sorted now. Not sure why that is. It very much feels like a no compromise aero bike in that way.
-
I finished my build too :) Weight without pedals is 7.8kg.
-
Nice paint. Not certain about the decals though xD.
-
I finished my build too :) Weight without pedals is 7.8kg.
Did you end up doing anything to your fork steerer or was it fine after you cut it down?
-
Did you end up doing anything to your fork steerer or was it fine after you cut it down?
Since I had to sand it down at two places quite a bit to make the cockpit-stem fit, I gave it to a carbon repair guy who glued in an alloy insert that goes down far below the headset bearing.
-
I see you went with mechanical disc brakes. They sell some high tension gold brake cables on AliEx that work really well if you plan on keeping them.
-
I see you went with mechanical disc brakes. They sell some high tension gold brake cables on AliEx that work really well if you plan on keeping them.
I used Jagwire cables, which I was quite happy with in the past. But can you post the link to the gold cables please?
-
I used Jagwire cables, which I was quite happy with in the past. But can you post the link to the gold cables please?
You can shop around, but I believe this store is the OEM that makes them. Just make sure to order the road version and get the right length of cables for the front and rear:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804589342357.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804589342357.html)
When I installed them, I noticed a bit more tension/spring back on my Juin Tech F1 brakes. Also visually they look a bit more premium! Lol
I attached a photo of how they look on my bike.
-
You can shop around, but I believe this store is the OEM that makes them. Just make sure to order the road version and get the right length of cables for the front and rear:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804589342357.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804589342357.html)
When I installed them, I noticed a bit more tension/spring back on my Juin Tech F1 brakes. Also visually they look a bit more premium! Lol
I attached a photo of how they look on my bike.
Thanks, but unfortunately the link doesn't work for me, I just get "page couldn't be found". The cable looks very good!
-
Thanks, but unfortunately the link doesn't work for me, I just get "page couldn't be found". The cable looks very good!
Just look up "CNC Gold Road Shift Cable Bicycle Shifter Line Wire" in your search engine or search up chooee Official Store on AliExpress. I was going to swap my shifters to Ultegra hydraulic, but when I tried these cables and picked up semi-metallic finned pads (recently released on AliEx) for my Juin Tech F1 calipers, they now brake so well I haven't felt a need to replace them yet. My Ultegra shifters/hydraulic calipers have just been sitting in shoe box! Lol
-
Are these much stiffer as in harder to bend and harder to route around tight turns?
I'd like to make the rear brake on my rim brake bike less spongy. But since the cable is completely internally routed, compressionless housing is not really an option.
-
Just look up "CNC Gold Road Shift Cable Bicycle Shifter Line Wire" in your search engine or search up chooee Official Store on AliExpress. I was going to swap my shifters to Ultegra hydraulic, but when I tried these cables and picked up semi-metallic finned pads (recently released on AliEx) for my Juin Tech F1 calipers, they now brake so well I haven't felt a need to replace them yet. My Ultegra shifters/hydraulic calipers have just been sitting in shoe box! Lol
Thanks I found them! In case I won't be satisfied with the performance of my brakes I will for sure try them out.
-
Are these much stiffer as in harder to bend and harder to route around tight turns?
I'd like to make the rear brake on my rim brake bike less spongy. But since the cable is completely internally routed, compressionless housing is not really an option.
I have combined compressionless with regular housing in the tight turns.
-
Are these much stiffer as in harder to bend and harder to route around tight turns?
I'd like to make the rear brake on my rim brake bike less spongy. But since the cable is completely internally routed, compressionless housing is not really an option.
It's not a huge difference, but the brake cable appears to be a bit more robust. I think on a rim brake bike, the brake feel would lessen a bit of the sponginess. I usually do a few firm pulls on mechanical brake cables to reduce any slack in the housing. Also I use heat shrink cable ends to minimize any fraying. To apply/remove just requires heat from a lighter or heat gun.
-
I made some TanTan decals. An EPS-file ready for plotting is attached in case anyone wants to have them too.
-
i'm waiting for new wheelset and i post new photos of my build ;D
-
I made some TanTan decals. An EPS-file ready for plotting is attached in case anyone wants to have them too.
Looks way better than before, probs for keeping it real! 8)
-
I made some TanTan decals. An EPS-file ready for plotting is attached in case anyone wants to have them too.
Looks stunning!
-
I can confirm that 32c tires will fit without fear of rubbing. Which is opposite of what I said months ago. Not sure how I messed that up, but perhaps I was using the wrong wheel/tire combo. Using 32c tires with anything less than 23mm internal wheels will most likely cause rubbing since the tires will have more of a bulbous effect. My original test was with 20mm internal wheels.
Wheels: 30mm external, 23mm internal
Tires: Conti GP5000 STR 32c, measures about 32.5mm at the tire
-
My wheels are 24mm wide internally. My Vittoria Corsa 28c tires pump up to just below 31mm. Ample clearance all the way around. I’ll post pics later on.
-
Here are the pics that I promised. As you can see, there's more than enough space. It might get close with a 32c tire at the driveside chainstay if it pumps up to somewhere north of 34mm. But other than that it should be fine.
-
I made some TanTan decals. An EPS-file ready for plotting is attached in case anyone wants to have them too.
What size is your bike and how high is the saddle if I may ask?
-
What size is your bike and how high is the saddle if I may ask?
Size 56 and saddle height is 78,5cm.
-
Finally, I found a brand that sell TanTan bikes in Europe:
https://www.atom6cycling.be/en/bikes/road/
-
I made some more decals including a Tantan Logo. An EPS-file ready for plotting is attached.
-
I havent looked at geometry charts, but the seatpost looks a bit like a triathlon seatpost with the ability to move the saddle mount fore / aft. But if that's the case, by how much? a triathlon seatpost would typically have much more play.
And so from that, is this supposed to be a bike that lets you sit more vertical vs BB, like a triathlon bike would?
The shape of the seat tube is reminiscent of the Giant Trinity, so is it just looks, or is that bike you can dial in more than typical road bikes to lay flat and go fast on?
-
I havent looked at geometry charts, but the seatpost looks a bit like a triathlon seatpost with the ability to move the saddle mount fore / aft. But if that's the case, by how much?
I haven't actually measured the exact amount of movement possible, but I guess 15mm in total.
-
How are you guys finding the stiffness of this frame? I'm looking for a stiff aero frame for crits. Would this fit the bill?
-
I havent looked at geometry charts, but the seatpost looks a bit like a triathlon seatpost with the ability to move the saddle mount fore / aft. But if that's the case, by how much? a triathlon seatpost would typically have much more play.
And so from that, is this supposed to be a bike that lets you sit more vertical vs BB, like a triathlon bike would?
The shape of the seat tube is reminiscent of the Giant Trinity, so is it just looks, or is that bike you can dial in more than typical road bikes to lay flat and go fast on?
The frame's got a pretty steep seat tube angle. Steeper than 74 degrees in some sizes. "Only" 73 on my size 58. The seatpost with the saddle clamp all the way back has very little setback if any at all. So yes. If you like to get on top of your BB this frame is for you.
-
How are you guys finding the stiffness of this frame? I'm looking for a stiff aero frame for crits. Would this fit the bill?
I got the biggest size and I'm 82kg. I find this frame to be plenty stiff in the BB area. So power transfer feels good to me. The bars (on my version which is not the Tan Tan frame but the Ceccotti/Sequel Sports one) are also very stiff. The only area where I feel it flexes more than I would like is the headtube area under sprinting. If you really pull the bars at high speeds when sprinting the headtube area flexes and that can lead to the front wheel steering feeling slightly wobbly. Not enough to really bother me but I do notice it.
-
I havent looked at geometry charts, but the seatpost looks a bit like a triathlon seatpost with the ability to move the saddle mount fore / aft. But if that's the case, by how much? a triathlon seatpost would typically have much more play.
And so from that, is this supposed to be a bike that lets you sit more vertical vs BB, like a triathlon bike would?
The shape of the seat tube is reminiscent of the Giant Trinity, so is it just looks, or is that bike you can dial in more than typical road bikes to lay flat and go fast on?
i dont have this frame, but since it looks like the new Foil, check out Seb.Kienle's 2023 Norseman Tri Foil setup for inspiration 8)