Chinertown
Other Resources => Component Deals & Selection => Topic started by: StiffWeenies on February 23, 2022, 07:46:02 AM
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Hey everyone, the original discussion on the fake eeBrakes G4 got shut down (https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168829) on another forum so I'm continuing it here.
You can purchase them through this seller on AliExpress (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003678216205.html) but I'm sure there are others carrying it. For the record, I contacted that particular seller and they told me that an unbranded set without logos can be arranged. Personally I'm not a fan of fakes with logos so an unbranded set of generic brakes is right up my alley.
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Some links for your reading:
original thread on WW (https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=168829)
original thread on TPL (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=278776)
Cane Creek counterfeit identification guide (https://canecreek.com/counterfeit-identification-guide/)
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That canecreekstore is definitely a phony scam site. But I'm kinda glad it seems Cane Creek is finally outed as made in China and "assembled" in America. Lots of dancing around the topic in their statements and in those threads.
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I read 'assembled' in US like 'yes we buy them from China but it's none of your business'.
1 leaf spring + 2 circlips is rocket science now, therefore they demand premiums, lol.
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I decided to give the center mount version of these G4 counterfeits a try. I was pleasantly surprised with their looks but these are not the bees knees.
Compared to R8000 brakes (tested on two bikes with similar setups, differing only by their brake calipers) the springs are firmer and require more grip strength but I imagine this would benefit frames with serpentine cable routing. With Shimano pads, the braking is not quite as good but it's close. Also unlike R8000, there is a little slop in the right side pivot, the side with the cable pinch bolt. Somehow, this results in no squeal even with zero toe, but maybe this is more a result of the Shimano pads.
I happen to have them set up with spacers for narrow, 22mm rims but I can confirm that they will accommodate rims up to 30mm by rearranging or removing the four 2mm spacers these come with.
These will not fit on frames with dropped seat stays because of the amount of space required by the linkage and cable routing. By my measurement, there needs to be at least 53mm of clearance between the brake mount and the seat tube.
There is one really weird thing about these brakes and that's the centering mechanism. It's tool free, which is quite nice, but because of its design, only one arm spreads when opening the quick release. This could be a problem with tires that balloon much wider than the rims. See the second photo.
These weigh 101g for the front and 96g for the rear, without pads (that didn't arrive -- not the first time missing items from an Ali seller). I paid $178.11 with tax and shipping to the US from a seller called F1Z BIKE SHOP, and they took 20 days to arrive.
If the real ee brakes are identical except for the badge and shoe fixing bolts, I have to assume that they have all the same characteristics. Thus, other than the looks and weight savings, they're not better than R8000.
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I decided to give the center mount version of these G4 counterfeits a try. I was pleasantly surprised with their looks but these are not the bees knees.
Compared to R8000 brakes (tested on two bikes with similar setups, differing only by their brake calipers) the springs are firmer and require more grip strength but I imagine this would benefit frames with serpentine cable routing. With Shimano pads, the braking is not quite as good but it's close. Also unlike R8000, there is a little slop in the right side pivot, the side with the cable pinch bolt. Somehow, this results in no squeal even with zero toe, but maybe this is more a result of the Shimano pads.
I happen to have them set up with spacers for narrow, 22mm rims but I can confirm that they will accommodate rims up to 30mm by rearranging or removing the four 2mm spacers these come with.
These will not fit on frames with dropped seat stays because of the amount of space required by the linkage and cable routing. By my measurement, there needs to be at least 53mm of clearance between the brake mount and the seat tube.
There is one really weird thing about these brakes and that's the centering mechanism. It's tool free, which is quite nice, but because of its design, only one arm spreads when opening the quick release. This could be a problem with tires that balloon much wider than the rims. See the second photo.
These weigh 101g for the front and 96g for the rear, without pads (that didn't arrive -- not the first time missing items from an Ali seller). I paid $178.11 with tax and shipping to the US from a seller called F1Z BIKE SHOP, and they took 20 days to arrive.
If the real ee brakes are identical except for the badge and shoe fixing bolts, I have to assume that they have all the same characteristics. Thus, other than the looks and weight savings, they're not better than R8000.
Thank you for sharing your experience. The user krooj in the TPL thread (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=278776&page=8) reported that the fakes are less stiff compared to the real thing. Overall I think some corners were definitely cut in terms of assembly workmanship and material quality of certain parts. I hope they can fix these issues and advertise an unbranded option up front instead of having to message them to arrange it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4xEKSguFsc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4xEKSguFsc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWd5qHL7JiU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWd5qHL7JiU)
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I have taken apart my calipers to grease the pivots and the centre mounting bolt is actually titanium, which is nice.
If you want unbranded brakes, just remove the logo, it's a simple alloy cap held in place by an o-ring.
edit: forgot to mention that mine came without pads as well but they were advertised without pads.
edit 2: shite spelling lol
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Hi, do you mean I can remove the logo myself? Thank you.
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Sorry for bringing up an old thread but i just received these and how do these differ from the real deal? mine have ti hardware and patent markings all over them. even the washers look on the pad holders look oversized just like the real thing. Also mine came in a cane creek marked box. For fakes they sure went to a lot of effort to make them look real. is there any surefire way to tell the difference?
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here is the box and even an Cane creek user manual. if these are fake, they need to start charing more. paid under $150 incl. shiping to the US for the pair.
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Hi Jeff,
I also have these and the bolts are different also we probably all have the same serial on our calipers.
I have over 4000km on mine with some serious descents as well and so far so good.
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Hi Jeff,
I also have these and the bolts are different also we probably all have the same serial on our calipers.
I have over 4000km on mine with some serious descents as well and so far so good.
Thank you, I did some more web searching and did notice the pad bolt was different. still amazed at the work that went into these fakes. I assume these brakes will take regular shimano or similar cartridge pads? can someone please confirm? what are you guys using?
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Hey Jeff!
Yes they take the same pads currently using Swisstop Flash Evo Black Prince has my rims have an external width of 29mm (had to remove all the spacers from the brake calipers)
Super happy with the brakes been doing long descents with them no problem.
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I’ve been looking at these for a while, but decided to order a set of Bontrager Speed Stop Pros. They can be found very cheaply NOS. I got mine for around 120 EUR. Weight is around 200g. So slightly heavier than the fake EEbrakes.
They will replace my Record Calipers at 320g.
The Bontrager have TRP brake shoes so I’m guessing they’re made by TRP, which is a good thing IMO.
Also, I like that they have adjustable brake power to customise the brake action to any brake lever.
They seem a good alternative to the Ali fakes. Just saying.
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I’ve been looking at these for a while, but decided to order a set of Bontrager Speed Stop Pros. They can be found very cheaply NOS. I got mine for around 120 EUR. Weight is around 200g. So slightly heavier than the fake EEbrakes.
They will replace my Record Calipers at 320g.
The Bontrager have TRP brake shoes so I’m guessing they’re made by TRP, which is a good thing IMO.
Also, I like that they have adjustable brake power to customise the brake action to any brake lever.
They seem a good alternative to the Ali fakes. Just saying.
Those seem like nice brakes but i would never put anything on my bike by bontrager. I refuse to feed the Trek machine. Time will tell if these fakies are any good but fake or not, the machining and attention to detail in making these to mimic EE's is so good that i dont even care if they are fake. If they just labeled these as something else and sold them by their own name they would have a hot seller (for rim brakes in a disc brake world that is)
Those bontragers are probably made in the same factory as these. All the trek stuff is from china anyways. just with a little extra on top for big guy.
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Those seem like nice brakes but i would never put anything on my bike by bontrager. I refuse to feed the Trek machine. Time will tell if these fakies are any good but fake or not, the machining and attention to detail in making these to mimic EE's is so good that i dont even care if they are fake. If they just labeled these as something else and sold them by their own name they would have a hot seller (for rim brakes in a disc brake world that is)
Those bontragers are probably made in the same factory as these. All the trek stuff is from china anyways. just with a little extra on top for big guy.
I agree. I might just get a set of these still and put them on my weight weenie steel build.
The Bontragers are Made in Taiwan says the labelling on the box. Which makes sense because TRP stuff is Made in Taiwan.
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I had read that one of the biggest complaints on these was the pad fixing bolt. i have replaced them with some titanium pad bolts that actually fit in the groove perfectly. Also swapped out the cable clamp bolt to a titanium one. i like the looks of the black better and it saves about 4 gr. per brake.
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I had read that one of the biggest complaints on these was the pad fixing bolt. i have replaced them with some titanium pad bolts that actually fit in the groove perfectly. Also swapped out the cable clamp bolt to a titanium one. i like the looks of the black better and it saves about 4 gr. per brake.
Have you ridden them on the road? What are your thoughts on their performance?
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I had read that one of the biggest complaints on these was the pad fixing bolt. i have replaced them with some titanium pad bolts that actually fit in the groove perfectly. Also swapped out the cable clamp bolt to a titanium one. i like the looks of the black better and it saves about 4 gr. per brake.
Looks nice, can you share information for the bolts you used to replace the stainless steel ones?
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due to popular demand, these are the bolts that i bought to replace the standard issue bolts that come on the fake EE brakes. i used the stock washer as it is very thin and fist well around the shoulder on the new titanium bolt. one other nice thing is the new ti bolts use a 4mm hex key instead of the T25 torx. i am not a huge fan of torx for bikes as that is the only thing that uses them on my bike.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804682267951.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.83.26821802TDMD8r&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=US
as for the performance of these brakes, i have only taken them around the block a few times. they seem to be very powerful in the few times i slammed them to test them out. i was able to lock them with ease and they do feel very firm and solid at the lever. i have read of some other super light brakes feeling very spongy but these are very nice.
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Thanks so much for your reply, Jeff! I'm going to order some of those bolts.
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don't use these in humid/rainy weather they will start rusting out.
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don't use these in humid/rainy weather they will start rusting out.
What part have you had rust on you? I took a magnet to them and the only thing I could find that was magnetic was the return spring, cable clamp bolt (replaced with Ti) and the brake pad bolts (replaced with Ti). if there is something else that I need to look at please let me know.
although I told my wife this was the trainer bike so maybe I don't need to worry about rain. hahahaha
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What part have you had rust on you? I took a magnet to them and the only thing I could find that was magnetic was the return spring, cable clamp bolt (replaced with Ti) and the brake pad bolts (replaced with Ti). if there is something else that I need to look at please let me know.
although I told my wife this was the trainer bike so maybe I don't need to worry about rain. hahahaha
the little circular arc has been rusting on me and I have been oiling it to protect it as much as possible and it's happening on both calipers.
I would still vouch for these as it doesn't seem to affect integrity however for those who want things to look pristine all the time it's something to consider.
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I received the email from Cane cmCreek about their limited edition $800 brakes that we can be so lucky to buy. While I'd am not buying those I was noticing they sell small parts for the EEbrakes. They actual sell the pad bolts and spacers for like $5-$10. Everything is sold individually but for $30-$40 you could get actual EEbrakes parts for the only part that I have ever heard complaints about. If my titanium bolts don't work out how I want I will be going this route.
They also sell the brake pads for a shockingly reasonable price. Not allot and carbon compounds.
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Nice hack! Stick it back to them lol. Those are getting crazy honestly. Last month I was selling an All-City bike locally and someone proposed a trade offer for CK components. Just out of curiosity I asked what does he have to trade and guy says limited edition CK brakes from 2019 but since my bike was only $900 he said it's not an even trade and wanted me to pay $100 on top. Per him those brakes "will only go up in price" because every year there's a new limited edition and old ones keep getting rare :-X
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Nice hack! Stick it back to them lol. Those are getting crazy honestly. Last month I was selling an All-City bike locally and someone proposed a trade offer for CK components. Just out of curiosity I asked what does he have to trade and guy says limited edition CK brakes from 2019 but since my bike was only $900 he said it's not an even trade and wanted me to pay $100 on top. Per him those brakes "will only go up in price" because every year there's a new limited edition and old ones keep getting rare :-X
Yeah when i am buying and selling bikes i avoid anything with Pauls, Chris King, Enve, etc. components. nothing really wrong with the parts (other than ego driven elitism and over pricing) but the people that put them on their bikes generally have an emotional attachment to the bikes and the perceived status it gives them. not exactly sure but they always think that they are worth big $$$ even when on a shit bike. and they usually get very offended when i offer a realistic price. Also with the CK headsets, i still dont know what you are paying for. I am going year 7 now with my NECO Chinese one that was $15. and it is on a fat bike that sees salted roads and lots of moisture. a CK would have to last 1000 yrs to make the cost worth it.
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Yeah, a Chris King headset is a bit like jewellery. Totally unnecessary but beautiful to look at - which is in the eye of the beholder obviously. I too would never pay that kind of money.
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the little circular arc has been rusting on me and I have been oiling it to protect it as much as possible and it's happening on both calipers.
I would still vouch for these as it doesn't seem to affect integrity however for those who want things to look pristine all the time it's something to consider.
Overall, you've had good experiences with your fake eebrakes and don't have any concerns about how well they work? Besides rust on the return spring, any other QC or build issues?
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Any update on how these are holding up after months of use? I am about to give up on SRAM Red 22 calipers that refuse to stay centered. These seem like a nice lightweight option to replace them. Are these too sensitive to cable length?
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Overall, you've had good experiences with your fake eebrakes and don't have any concerns about how well they work? Besides rust on the return spring, any other QC or build issues?
I have since moved back to Disc Brakes but they worked as intended and except for the rust build up which could most likely be prevented they are fine.
They are finicky with cable just like the real thing and I know some frames won't be able to have the right angle for them.
I did about 7000km with them and never had a failure.
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During last sale I pulled trigger on silver pair of these brakes to replace SRAM Red 22 calipers on my SSE2. The Red calipers are a bitch to keep centered and very, vert susceptible to cable length. Not to mention plasticky parts on it. Enter the EE brakes and after riding for about 400 miles, I am fairly happy with the performance. But it's not without its shortfalls though.
For one, the calipers do have a flex. After installation, you can move the arms with little force - definitely not as stiff as Ultegra brakes which I have on other bike. Secondly, the little piece with "ee" logo thing is wobbly. You can pry it out pretty easily. I haven't understood the function of it as to why it needs to come out but you have it. It does have a pretty thick rubber gasket to seal but with just 2 rides in rain and dirt there was dust inside when I pulled the cover out.
Then there is the actual installation process - its definitely not as simple or straight forward compared to Shimano's or SRAM's. The cable needs to pass through tiny gaps on pivots into the tightening screw. That screw and square washer that presses against the cable are really flimsy.
With all that said, these things are a thing of beauty. Really love the complicated mechanical look of them. They also undercut Red calipers by around 50 grams. Rode the bike to my LBS and main mechanic was impressed at the machining and looks of it.
That's the thing - when I opened the box I was surprised how good they look. Absolutely no signs of it being fake. Came with all the documentation, washers, screws etc in proper packaging for each. In fact I am still not sure what the real thing does better. May be they are less flexy? Anyhoo, I still feel they are a little pricey for being fakes and aren't better than Ultegra brakes. The Ultegra R8000 caliper (pair) can be had for $65 brand new from eBay and have absolutely no flex.
Compared to SRAM Red, they definitely stay centered and look sexy. Oh and unlike SRAM, they also don't need silly 13mm wrench.
Too early to tell how the moving parts hold though. I shall report again after 2k miles. For now, if anyone is interested, buy them for novelty or to save a few grams but not for outright performance (especially if you are in Shimano land).
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I had the Bontrager Speed Stop Pro brakes which are very similar to these. And while they did stay centered, I just could not get them set up so the two arms would apply the brake force evenly. So much so that the pads would wear much more on one side. That’s why I took em off. My Campy Record brakes are heavier, sure. But they work so much better.
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During last sale I pulled trigger on silver pair of these brakes to replace SRAM Red 22 calipers on my SSE2.
Quoting my own post for an update since I have gathered some miles on it.
Issues have reared their head. First off, the rear brake felt mushy, so I changed the Shimano housing to Jagwire Pro Road (KEB-SL). Verdict? Almost unusable. The actuating arm cannot handle the pressure exerted by stiff housing. I knew the pivots have play in them but the actuation arm where cable connects is even worse - I would call it "loose". So when you use super stiff compressionless housing, it can throw the arm out of its usual location. Unfortunately for it, the design of the caliper is such that that the butterfly screw must pass through a slit in the actuation arm - so if that arm itself is moving laterally, this butterfly screw strikes against the arm. The complicated design is not helped by poorly riveted pivots. If everything was supertight with minimal tolerances this issue won't arise.
The other thing that impacts this caliper (especially the rear) is the way cable is routed. On almost all the frames rear brake cable exits from left of the top tube and the cable naturally flows into brake caliper which all have cable port on the left. Not on this, the cable port is on the right, so cable has to take a turn immediately after exit from top tube and if the housing is compressionless, it continuously pushes against the butterfly/adjusting knob. I don't have this problem on the front. Tried various lengths of cable, wasting almost 3 feet but nope. I finally gave in and installed the usual softer brake cable and things are back to working condition at least. Mushy but not unusable.
All in all, I am disappointed. This is a design that needs really tight tolerances with absolutely minimal play/movement between pivots and that is NOT the case here. :(
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Final update on these brakes as I draw curtain on them and go back to SRAM Red 22 calipers -
The tiny centering screw (on rear caliper) has started to become undone with regular road usage. That causes the caliper to lean on one side every few miles. This is similar to Red calipers who refuse to stay centered except in this case it's even more severe. This on top of all other issues. I had gotten them because Red calipers were annoying with their centering problem but alas. At least the Red calipers are solid without any slop and wiggly pivots.
Such beautiful looking, shiny artifacts but they are back into their boxes for good.
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Could some loctite on the brake bolt not help you here?
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You mean on the centering screw or the main bolt that goes through the frame? I could have on the centering screw but the idea of putting loctite on a screw that's supposed to be adjustable sounds kinda wrong.
In any case, these calipers have bigger issues than that particular screw. The tolerance is just too big on almost every moving part. Sloppy and wiggly. I have read some people are happy with it so may be my particular set is lemon.
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I was always interested in these, but after reading the problems in this thread I guess I will give them a miss.
Going to get the Ultegra dual pivot rim brakes instead. Unless there's another good light weight dual pivot option
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I was always interested in these, but after reading the problems in this thread I guess I will give them a miss.
Going to get the Ultegra dual pivot rim brakes instead. Unless there's another good light weight dual pivot option
The Ultegras are hands down better calipers. I recently scored a new R8000 set for $50. Much cheaper than these yet miles better.
Apart from this thread there are some threads on weight weenies and Bikeforums where people have noted same problems as mine. I read those threads and still went ahead with the order - don't be me lol.
Look up KCNC brake calipers, expensive but I dig the design. Also look at Ciamillo if you want (there are some horror stories about them too).
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You mean on the centering screw or the main bolt that goes through the frame? I could have on the centering screw but the idea of putting loctite on a screw that's supposed to be adjustable sounds kinda wrong.
In any case, these calipers have bigger issues than that particular screw. The tolerance is just too big on almost every moving part. Sloppy and wiggly. I have read some people are happy with it so may be my particular set is lemon.
The main bolt.
I mostly asked it as question, being a total newbie bike mechanic. :-[
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Oh okay, no the main bolt on EE is fine. Better than SRAM Red anyway. I didn't notice that screw tilting the caliper over time like it happens on Red.
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I experienced some similar issues but I screwed down the centering screw and used the main fixing bolt to manually align.
I also put a new piece of brake outer from the frame to the caliper approx 20mm longer than I had already fitted. Amazed just how much difference this has made and the back brake is as good as the front.