Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: RS VR6 on April 18, 2018, 02:56:02 AM
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158. Looks like 148 only.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018-NEW-29ER-BOOST-Full-Suspension-Full-Carbon-MTB-Bicycle-Frame-FM158-148-12mm/32854553929.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.48.3fb91244sAY1xH&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10065_10151_5722917_10344_10068_10130_10324_10342_10547_10325_10343_5722817_10546_10340_10341_10548_5722617_10698_10545_10697_10696_10084_10083_10618_10307_5722717_10059_5711217_10534_308_100031_10103_441_5722517_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620_5711317,searchweb201603_28,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=14ea6170-e624-4ec4-ab4e-da1f802f8f9d-7&algo_pvid=14ea6170-e624-4ec4-ab4e-da1f802f8f9d&priceBeautifyAB=0
258. 142 and 148.
The 258 won't ship till July.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018-NEW-Carbon-Fiber-29er-Full-Suspension-Boost-148MM-MTB-Bicycle-Frame-FM258-UD-Matte/32854379761.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.30.3fb91244sAY1xH&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10065_10151_5722917_10344_10068_10130_10324_10342_10547_10325_10343_5722817_10546_10340_10341_10548_5722617_10698_10545_10697_10696_10084_10083_10618_10307_5722717_10059_5711217_10534_308_100031_10103_441_5722517_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620_5711317-normal#cfs,searchweb201603_28,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=14ea6170-e624-4ec4-ab4e-da1f802f8f9d-4&algo_pvid=14ea6170-e624-4ec4-ab4e-da1f802f8f9d&priceBeautifyAB=0
Thoughts on these two frames?
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Yeah it looks like they are all the same variant of the 058 which you can find a few build threads on. It looks like they are offering $100 off if you order the 258 before April 30th. Not getting it shipped until July is a huge turn off though. One other minor thing is that the headtube angle is pretty steep, was hoping for something slacker. I am worried this frame will get twitchy at speed, but I will still consider getting it.
Also worth noting is the FM289 coming out sometime this year, might be worth waiting for.
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Can you share more information on the FM289? hongfu-bikes.com is down so I can't look into it.
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Can you share more information on the FM289? hongfu-bikes.com is down so I can't look into it.
They have 0 information about it on the site, not even a picture. But they should have info about it this year sometime. Another one in the works is the WCB-M-145 from workswellbikes. I inquired about info on that and they will send me an email when they have an update. Here: http://www.workswellbikes.com/PRODDUCT/MTB/Trail/20170809/153.html
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....One other minor thing is that the headtube angle is pretty steep, was hoping for something slacker. I am worried this frame will get twitchy at speed, but I will still consider getting it.
Also worth noting is the FM289 coming out sometime this year, might be worth waiting for.
You reckon a 69 degree head angle on a 29er xc race bike is "pretty steep"? What xc bike are you riding now? I thought 69 degrees is just on the slack side of the average for all the major brands' FS xc weapons these days. Yeah, the spark RC is half a degree slacker, but that is probably an outlier.
If you are instead looking for a trail bike, maybe you should be looking for something with more travel, is designed to handle a 120mm+ fork, slacker HA. Cause the 058/258 ain't designed to be primarily a trail bike.
The other thread suggested that the 289 is a hardtail. Have you heard otherwise?
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....One other minor thing is that the headtube angle is pretty steep, was hoping for something slacker. I am worried this frame will get twitchy at speed, but I will still consider getting it.
You reckon a 69 degree head angle on a 29er xc race bike is "pretty steep"? What xc bike are you riding now? I thought 69 degrees is just on the slack side of the average for all the major brands' FS xc weapons these days. Yeah, the spark RC is half a degree slacker, but that is probably an outlier.
I was thinking the same thing. It's spec'ed with a 100mm fork, so putting a 120mm would put you at 68. Yes it would slacken the seat tube a bit but the HA is on par with the SC Tallboy 3 which is definitely not an XC bike.
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On the 158 frame, it looks like there is a bend in the seat tube right at the linkage pivot. If that's the case, that could limit dropper applications. I realize that this is an XC frame but droppers are still nice to have.
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On the 158 frame, it looks like there is a bend in the seat tube right at the linkage pivot. If that's the case, that could limit dropper applications. I realize that this is an XC frame but droppers are still nice to have.
Haven't seen any XC racer using droppers and winning races.
If you want a dropper why not go for a trail bike or all mountain ?
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Big confusion on this frames. Some drawings show boost, others don't. For me the brake mount should be on the chainstay not in the seatstay. I'm trying to find who has this frame with the chainstay brake mount in 15.5 and order one.
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Haven't seen any XC racer using droppers and winning races.
If you want a dropper why not go for a trail bike or all mountain ?
Others may feel differently but here are my reasons.
Because I don't need or like long travel bikes.
The geometry looks great for this bike for what I want.
I have no desire to stand on a podium and I'm going to guess that most people buying this frame are in the same mindset.
I have used a dropper enough to know that it has it's merits on a cross country bike and it just makes riding more fun.
A 120mm front / 100mm rear travel bike with relatively short CS's, 73 degree SA, a 68 degree HA and a dropper would be a killer all around bike.
I used to be in the same mindset of "droppers are for big travel bikes" until I started using one. I put one on my trail bike last year and now I'm wanting one on my SS and my 29+ bike. To me it just seems odd that they would make it relatively modern in it's geometry but then limit it to not having a dropper. I know that I'm not alone in scratching this frame off of the list if that's the case.
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I used to be in the same mindset of "droppers are for big travel bikes" until I started using one. I put one on my trail bike last year and now I'm wanting one on my SS and my 29+ bike. To me it just seems odd that they would make it relatively modern in it's geometry but then limit it to not having a dropper. I know that I'm not alone in scratching this frame off of the list if that's the case.
I understand your point. Different Riders, different needs.
My answer on the bend is that If you make a very short chainstay you end up having to bend the seat tube to allow for tire clearance. I have even seen bikes with bend seatpost matching a bent seat tube.
We can't have it all. Big tires, big chainrings, dropper and short chainstay. I will trade a short chainstay and room for a 2.3 tire for no dropper :P
The issue is that the Chinese have no R&D so they just clone the frames and we end up with fewer choices, just a bunch of the same.
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Haven't seen any XC racer using droppers and winning races.
If you want a dropper why not go for a trail bike or all mountain ?
Didn't Annika Langvad run one in the Cape epic? Maybe not on all the stages, but I did see it on one of those "what the pros ride" kind of articles. I think she ended up winning by about an hour.
Julien Absalon, while not quite winning, has been known to often run a dropper post in recent world cups. Have you heard of him?
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Haven't seen any XC racer using droppers and winning races.
If you want a dropper why not go for a trail bike or all mountain ?
Didn't Annika Langvad run one in the Cape epic? Maybe not on all the stages, but I did see it on one of those "what the pros ride" kind of articles. I think she ended up winning by about an hour.
Julien Absalon, while not quite winning, has been known to often run a dropper post in recent world cups. Have you heard of him?
On Absalon, perhaps that's the reason he didn't win. He is tall enough not to need one and carrying the extra weight would probably moved him back. Any proof reference ?
On a stage race a pro can use for a single stage if they already have a long advantage based on sponsor reque$t.
Show me one of top 3 podium on World Cup XC race using dropper and you will change me.
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On Absalon, perhaps that's the reason he didn't win. He is tall enough not to need one and carrying the extra weight would probably moved him back. Any proof reference ?
The extra weight of the dropper would likely impact Absalon less, as he is a relatively heavier rider at about 70.5kg. He produces more absolute power than a smaller rider with the same W/Kg ratio, and has a smaller ratio of bike weight to body weight, both of which would offset the extra weight of the dropper post.
Show me one of top 3 podium on World Cup XC race using dropper and you will change me.
Maxime Marotte used a dropper at the opening round of the XC World Cup this season in Stellenbosch. He finished 3rd, a few bike lengths behind Gaze and Schurter. Other racers in the top-10 who used droppers were Florian Vogel (7th) and Titouan Carod (5th).
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In the topic of this frame.
Have you guys noticed that the Brake Caliper sometimes is mounted in the chainstay and sometimes in the seatstay ?
I have an M06 and it's mounted in the chainstay because the seatstay flexes with the wheel travel. If no shock is installed the frame still stays erect, the seatstay acts like a spring.
Wondering if anyone has a 258 in hands and can check if there is flex or smooth operation in the whole travel.
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Wondering if anyone has a 258 in hands and can check if there is flex or smooth operation in the whole travel.
It has to flex, because there is no pivot close or in the real axle.
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Wondering if anyone has a 258 in hands and can check if there is flex or smooth operation in the whole travel.
It has to flex, because there is no pivot close or in the real axle.
So do you think the brake caliper mounted on the seatstay might be an issue ? This has kept me awake at night for a few days.
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Show me one of top 3 podium on World Cup XC race using dropper and you will change me.
Different preferences for different riders but this comment leads me to a couple of questions.
1) are you chasing podiums?
2) have you spent much time on a dropper?
My opinion is that skipping the dropper only because of weight is silly. Sort of like going full rigid because it’s lighter.
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C'mon man, you are sounding like you are joining in on the narrow mindedness. I.e. Just because something works for you, on the kind of riding/terrain you do, doesn't mean someone else doing the opposite thing is wrong.
I reckon there are xc race courses out there which would warrant a dropper post, not just for more fun, but as a genuine performance enhancer (i.e. increase competitiveness) for the majority of riders, including those with skills of the very elite.
Likewise, there would be courses where the extra weight of the dropper (dunno, about 300-400g?) would be felt too much of the climbs, and not sufficiently compensated on the descents, if they weren't the kind where a dropper helps.
For me, I have been running droppers for over 10 years - started with an original gravity dropper. On my six inch trail bikes. But I don't use one on my xc bikes, as the kind of courses I ride only have probably about ~2-3% of track that i would be faster on a dropper. While I still have at least 5kg that i could lose off me (I might get close by September), I'd rather not be carrying that much unecessary weight on the bike for the other 98% of the course. Having said that, I have recently been chickening out on a few obstacles, and taking the b line, but that was on my old 26er with 71 degree head angle, longer stem, where the front-tippy feeling moments seemed to be pretty often.
I reckon we will increasingly find people running droppers on xc race bikes, probably as the weight comes down, and the course features get a bit hairier. Will be a while for me though - I've now got a new slacker, shorter stemmed, bigger wheelled xc race bike that should get me through even more of the tough bits without feeling that I need stretchier arms and legs to get further back and lower.
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C'mon man, you are sounding like you are joining in on the narrow mindedness. I.e. Just because something works for you, on the kind of riding/terrain you do, doesn't mean someone else doing the opposite thing is wrong.
Is this directed at me? I wasn’t trying to argue with anyone just pointing out the fact that it would be a deal breaker for a lot of people. I totally understand that people like to ride different styles of bike, that’s why I have 3 mountain bikes. But the comments of “get a trail bike if you want a dropper” and “I will run a dropper when the pro’s do” seems a bit off. My question asking if he was chasing podiums was not meant to be sarcastic. I was truly asking to see if they were looking for a dedicated race bike.
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C'mon man, you are sounding like you are joining in on the narrow mindedness. I.e. Just because something works for you, on the kind of riding/terrain you do, doesn't mean someone else doing the opposite thing is wrong.
Is this directed at me? I wasn’t trying to argue with anyone just pointing out the fact that it would be a deal breaker for a lot of people. I totally understand that people like to ride different styles of bike, that’s why I have 3 mountain bikes. But the comments of “get a trail bike if you want a dropper” and “I will run a dropper when the pro’s do” seems a bit off. My question asking if he was chasing podiums was not meant to be sarcastic. I was truly asking to see if they were looking for a dedicated race bike.
Nah man, the comment was for me. I was being a douche with my comments against dropper. I needed to go for a ride to get more open minded. Did it and I'm now happy with droppers. :P Totally agree, what works for me may not work for others.
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Is this directed at me? I wasn’t trying to argue with anyone just pointing out the fact that it would be a deal breaker for a lot of people. I totally understand that people like to ride different styles of bike, that’s why I have 3 mountain bikes. But the comments of “get a trail bike if you want a dropper” and “I will run a dropper when the pro’s do” seems a bit off. My question asking if he was chasing podiums was not meant to be sarcastic. I was truly asking to see if they were looking for a dedicated race bike.
Yes. I don't run a dropper on my xc race bike because of the added weight. So, do you think I'm silly? As it reads, i can't see any other way to interpret your comment ("My opinion is that skipping the dropper only because of weight is silly").
I would guess that, other than cost/maintenance, the overwhelming main reason people don't put droppers on their xc race bikes is because of weight. A lot of silly people out there?
As for my contribution to the subject of droppers on these kind of frames, my similar FM058 has a maximum seatpost insertion of 120mm, which would greatly limit dropper post options. That's on the medium frame, not sure what it is on the other sizes, or what it is on the 158 or 258. But this measurement shows up on the technical drawing that hongfu supplies before you order.
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Yes. I don't run a dropper on my xc race bike because of the added weight. So, do you think I'm silly?
If I read only that portion of the comment, then yes, I would think that you are silly. But since I have read all of your other comments on this thread, no I do not think you're silly because there is more to it than weight.
You have a dedicated race bike and you have used droppers in the past so you know what works for you and what doesn't. That is why I asked those questions, "is it a race bike" and "have you used a dropper".
If you read all of my posts in this thread, you will see that I never said it was wrong. I started by saying that the dropper option is nice to have and it seems odd that it would be of modern geometry and not have that option. Then it got confusing with the "Haven't seen any XC racer using droppers and winning races. If you want a dropper why not go for a trail bike or all mountain?" "Show me one of top 3 podium on World Cup XC race using dropper and you will change me." comments. I've used droppers and I know they work for me as they allow me to go faster even on the not so technical stuff all while keeping the optimal seat height during the pedal mashing sections.
I've seen many people stick to skinny rims, rigid posts, and crap tires because that's what the pro's are using and these people are chasing podiums that they may or may not get, and if they do get them, they will never be the bill paying podiums. They are just trying way to hard to play the part.
That being said, now back to our regularly scheduled program.
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In the topic of this frame.
Have you guys noticed that the Brake Caliper sometimes is mounted in the chainstay and sometimes in the seatstay ?
I have an M06 and it's mounted in the chainstay because the seatstay flexes with the wheel travel. If no shock is installed the frame still stays erect, the seatstay acts like a spring.
Wondering if anyone has a 258 in hands and can check if there is flex or smooth operation in the whole travel.
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If you print out a drawing of the frame and draw two circles:
(1) one circle centred on the main pivot, with the circle/arc passing through the pivot at the end of the seat stay.
(2) a smaller second circle centred on the pivot where the linkage is connected to the main frame, with the circle/arc passing through the pivot at the end of the seat stay.
The first circle traces the natural path of the end of seatstay if it wasn't connected to the linkage/rocker. The second circle traces the path that the linkage/rocker forces the end of the seatstay to take (and forces it to bend).
You can roughly visualise these paths just by looking at it.
The rocker forces the seatstay to bend upwards at first, then down again towards its "natural" path.
I confirmed this on my FM058 frame (with the same pivot locations). There was initial resistance to compressing the suspension, which eventually went the other way - i.e. around the spot where the shock would bottom out, the "spring" goes the other way, with the seatstay's cross brace suddenly springing towards the seat-tube.
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In the topic of this frame.
Have you guys noticed that the Brake Caliper sometimes is mounted in the chainstay and sometimes in the seatstay ?
I have an M06 and it's mounted in the chainstay because the seatstay flexes with the wheel travel. If no shock is installed the frame still stays erect, the seatstay acts like a spring.
Wondering if anyone has a 258 in hands and can check if there is flex or smooth operation in the whole travel.
So I know you've posted around a bit with this question (mtbr and here), and I have the M9007 with this mount, and I have to say I don't really understand what the issue is. No matter whether the brake is on the seatstay or the chainstay, it's part of the sprung rear triangle, and it's going to affect suspension kinematics under braking equally. When I ride while braking in the rear I don't notice any differences in suspension activity or any lack of braking efficiency.
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I think the problem is the fear that the caliper will move slightly with the flex in the seatstay and change its position relatively to the rear disc.
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Also because the seatstays are thinner one side gets flexed from the breaking forces and the other not. This may be an issue even on hardtails. Some aluminum frames suffer from this and I rarely see a good carbon frame with brake mount in seatstay.
Wirh 160mm rear this is small, but with 180mm the effect is much more.
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So I know you've posted around a bit with this question (mtbr and here), and I have the M9007 with this mount, and I have to say I don't really understand what the issue is. No matter whether the brake is on the seatstay or the chainstay, it's part of the sprung rear triangle, and it's going to affect suspension kinematics under braking equally. When I ride while braking in the rear I don't notice any differences in suspension activity or any lack of braking efficiency.
Since you brought up suspension, is the shock tune of the aftermarket Fox a great match for the frame's kinematics?
Did you request a firm XC tune?
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158. Looks like 148 only.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018-NEW-29ER-BOOST-Full-Suspension-Full-Carbon-MTB-Bicycle-Frame-FM158-148-12mm/32854553929.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.48.3fb91244sAY1xH&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10065_10151_5722917_10344_10068_10130_10324_10342_10547_10325_10343_5722817_10546_10340_10341_10548_5722617_10698_10545_10697_10696_10084_10083_10618_10307_5722717_10059_5711217_10534_308_100031_10103_441_5722517_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620_5711317,searchweb201603_28,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=14ea6170-e624-4ec4-ab4e-da1f802f8f9d-7&algo_pvid=14ea6170-e624-4ec4-ab4e-da1f802f8f9d&priceBeautifyAB=0
258. 142 and 148.
The 258 won't ship till July.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2018-NEW-Carbon-Fiber-29er-Full-Suspension-Boost-148MM-MTB-Bicycle-Frame-FM258-UD-Matte/32854379761.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.30.3fb91244sAY1xH&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_3_10152_10065_10151_5722917_10344_10068_10130_10324_10342_10547_10325_10343_5722817_10546_10340_10341_10548_5722617_10698_10545_10697_10696_10084_10083_10618_10307_5722717_10059_5711217_10534_308_100031_10103_441_5722517_10624_10623_10622_10621_10620_5711317-normal#cfs,searchweb201603_28,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=14ea6170-e624-4ec4-ab4e-da1f802f8f9d-4&algo_pvid=14ea6170-e624-4ec4-ab4e-da1f802f8f9d&priceBeautifyAB=0
Thoughts on these two frames?
I've never purchased from Aliexpress. The 258 shows 150 frames in stock?! A July delay would be dealbreaker for me. I know you're not the seller, but hoping to get info from anyone regarding what's shown on Aliexpress and what is reality for in stock.
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So I know you've posted around a bit with this question (mtbr and here), and I have the M9007 with this mount, and I have to say I don't really understand what the issue is. No matter whether the brake is on the seatstay or the chainstay, it's part of the sprung rear triangle, and it's going to affect suspension kinematics under braking equally. When I ride while braking in the rear I don't notice any differences in suspension activity or any lack of braking efficiency.
Since you brought up suspension, is the shock tune of the aftermarket Fox a great match for the frame's kinematics?
Did you request a firm XC tune?
Shock tune is based in the leverage ratio of the frame. There is some documentation from Rockshox in this: check it out (https://qbp.com/diagrams/TechInfo/vivid.pdf)