I totally agree with your points Thomas, the most important part is the ability to conduct structured training. It does not matter so much if train based on pulse or a power output as long as you something to measure up against. Me personally I prefer to use power as the factor I measure up against as my pulse is jumping around due to the medicine I have to take day in and day out.

About the easiness of getting access to training, I will just point out that during the last month here locally there have only been 1 day where weather and my work schedule made it possible to have a decent ride in the forest. Still I have completed 18 bike rides, about 600 km(almost 400 miles) of hard concentrated training and I would say that my fitness level is as good as it has been for many years. That is only possible due to the ability to jump on the trainer any time of the day when you have 1 hour in spare. As a matter of fact I managed to set a new record on my local mtb racetrack that I have done 100s of times. Until now the record was 1h 10 min and last Sunday I did it in 1h 03 min with an average pulse 7 beats lower than the last record ride. The day before I had spent 1 1/2 hour on the trainer so my legs was as a matter of fact a little heavy on that record ride and the trail was extremely heavy due to 3 weeks of heavy rain. All in all hard facts that the investment I made is one of the best investment I have ever made related to my fitness focus. Will I still use it in the summertime when the sun is shining - Hell yes as the efficiency is higher and it is so easy and a very flexible tool. In the end I think I will ride a lot more next season

Karsten

Quote from: karstenhorn on July 21, 2016, 12:02:29 AM

The bolts provided with the frame was around 4 mm too short and 0.3 mm under the 8.0 mm bushing diameter in my shock. They seemed of very low quality and I bought new ones before I took it for the first ride. I have similar issues with all the bushing bolts holding my chain stay together, causing a lot of flex.

Do yourself a favour and take everything apart and inspect/grease all part before first ride - My frame came dry at all joints from the vendor.

Karsten

Don't open a sealed bearing as they are greased already. Only put grease where it is bolt and bushing. When I got my frame it was painted from CS and apparently they did not cover the bushings before painting. When they assembled the rear triangle they did not clean the bushings and they did not put any grease at all. Again, quality check is non existent and it is a hit or miss if you are lucky or not. I was not lucky.........

Karsten
4mm?!  Jezuz! No, mine are only about 2.1mm too short and diameter is spot on. Nevertheless I'm myself still entertaining the idea of substituting them with Titanium ones (again Chinese  . I asked one vendor and he mailed me pictures. Tolerances are ok. The diameter is 7.93-7.96mm. I'm not sure about buying longer ones and shortening them myself...

I actually wanted to ask about greasing of all the pivot joints though. What did you actually grease? You opened bearing seals? I'm obsessing about the joints and want to fix them before mounting all the components on.   

I have bought via AliExpress a few times and always gotten what I have paid for. As far as I understand the seller will not receive your money before you have acknowledged that you have received the stuff that you have bought and are happy. If you start a dispute, Ali will keep the money until it is solved. From a buyers perspective Ali is more safe than Ebay - However, ALL packages coming from Ali to Denmark is getting inspected for fraudulent goods and it usually takes forever



Karsten

A real power meter is way beyond what I want to spend! But if you want left/right power, that's the only tool available.

Most smart home trainers providing power values actually do not have power sensors. They just rely on speed/resistance level combo. They know the power curve of their equipment, they calculate it but don't measure it.
So, this is just the same as a basic trainer equipped with a speed sensor. If you use a software which has calibrated your trainer, it will tell you the calculated power.

Then, I thought about smart trainers. And when I say "smart" I don't mean those who tell your speed/power, I mean those being controlled by a software. What they do is change the resistance. But thinking twice about it, that's not really what we want. What is important is to get in the right power zone, and this depends then always on you (how fast you pedal). If the resistance increases but you drop your cadence, or change gears to compensate, then you miss completely the point.

All that to say that I'll most likely just go with a basic trainer, good quality, silent (fluid resistance) and get the smart side of it with my speed/cadence sensors (Smart BT) coupled to a good software, calibrated on my trainer. I'll play with my gear (and legs) to get into the working zone I need to be in.

My question to you then; how will you know if you are in the power zones that you want to be in?

Digging into the world of power meters and how they actually measure/calculate your transferred energy to the wheel I think is beyond the intend with this thread However, if you go out and compare the big known brands into powermeters, you will also see variation in their readings. DCRainmaker have written tons of pages just about that specific subject - He also tested some of the smart trainers(including mine) up against professional power meter systems, and none were off by more than 5% and that is good enough for me. As a matter of fact I don't care how much it is off as I will still have something to train up against. I do rely a lot of his thoughts and comments and I agree with him in that you cannot train in a optimal way without some sort of power readings.

Karsten

Does the power sensor measure both legs separately, getting some data from a cadence meter or something?
Or just the overall power?

I'm sure that the power readings are an average value as the power sensor is integrated into the electronics of the trainer itself. If you want an individual reading for left and right side I think that we are talking 1000€+ systems(Garmin Vector, Stages etc).

Quote from: karstenhorn on October 19, 2016, 11:53:53 AM

...upload your favourite track file to the software host...

You mean a gpx file of a previous ride?

Very interesting read, thanks!
In 5ºC I'll probably reconsider indoor training

In Bkool you can use any of the common fitness file types like GPX, TCX, FIT etc. Bkool is the only system I have found where you can upload your own completed track and then ride it afterwards where resistance is controlled by the trainer software. The 3D part is fully generic but the slope part is very very realistic. If you have a camera on your bike that also stores GPS data in the metadata, you can create a full video track of your favourite track

Here is one of my favourite "racetrack" just around my home and it took 20 min for their system to generate a nice 3D track and it is very realistic indeed.



If you buy a TACX smart trainer and you have one of the newest Garmins, you can as a matter of fact ride a previous completed track directly out of your bike computer. However, there are lots of spikes in the metadata of a ride and the resistance will jump all over the scale and making it impossible to ride. When you upload the same track to Bkool, they are smoothing out the metadata and it works just perfect.

Karsten

I have now had my Home trainer for 14 days and so far it has been raining every single day since I got it so.............. Its been a huge success in many aspects, not only do you train more effectively than trying to get around in rain/mud/heavy winds. You can also jump on the system any time of the day, either early or late - No long transport time, its flat out cycling from minute one. Do I miss real cycling hell yes and this will never be the same as wind in the face, however as a combination with live cycling it can raise your actual level of strength quite a bit.

For all of you that are considering a home trainer I seriously recommend to buy a SMART trainer, they are not that expensive and the benefit from having your trainer software controlling the resistance of your trainer is mandatory I would say if you want to do some serious Watt training. Its also plain fun to upload your favourite track file to the software host and 12 hours later there is generated a 3D environment with all the slopes/resistance incorporated. It is just to jump on the bike, start the trainer software and enjoy your favourite ride.

What I would recommend based on my experience so far:

- A smart trainer for a start - This is the middle class trainer as recommended by DCrainmaker
  https://www.bike24.com/1.php?menu=1000%2C5%2C69;search=tacx+vortex;content=8;product=99376
  It will give you speed, cadence and power so no other sensors are required.
- A trainer mat
- A specific trainer tyre for your wheel size - They are quieter and will last longer
- An ANT+ FEC usb dongle for your laptop/desktop in order to connect with your trainer
- I'm using the Bkool Cycle simulator for the fun-/recreational part and I'm using the TACX IOS app for my power Watt training.
- If you have a Garmin 520/820/1000 you can control your trainer directly from your cycle computer

All in all maybe a few bucks for an initial investment but in the long run I do believe that the benefit will pay it back soon. I must say that I'm very happy with my purchase and in 14 days I have raised my FTP score about 10 percent. One thing you will have to keep in mind is the fact that unless you buy a very expensive trainer with build in free wheeling engine, there are no free riding on the trainer. You will have to pedal ALL the time and I can see, based on history from my Garmin, that I burn 25% more calories in 1 hour compared to normal outside riding.

I have been a good boy


My setup:




A rainy Saturday having fun with the wife in front of the big screen   




My best investment in a very long time and I look forward to the heavy snowstorms outside now.

Karsten