Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: patliean1 on August 02, 2023, 11:09:02 PM
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I just ordered a R086-D. Figured a new thread would be easier, to avoid confusing the with the R068-D. With such a long and low geometry I should not have any problems mirroring the setup to my Allez Sprint or Winspace T1500.
https://www.yishunbike.com/product/r086-daero-road/ (https://www.yishunbike.com/product/r086-daero-road/)
DETAILS
Frame: R086-D Aero Road frameset
Size: 540
ST062 Stem: 130mm*
HB058 Handlebar: 40cm*
*Both the stem and handlebar allow for internal cable routing
Includes bearings, spacers, hangers, and thru-axles, etc
Yishun only offers custom painting services for orders of 4 or more, so only matte black is offered. Totally fine by me. Kitty, their sales rep, responded to all of my emails within 24 hours. The transaction was super easy.
One hilarious quirk, which I couldn't tell if he/she was bluffing, was the comment below:
"Since we're going to send non-selling components parts to our german warehouse next monday. If you need the frameset, pls confirm the order this week."
Whether or not this was a simply a sales tactic or them being truthful, I'm not one to waste people's time (or mine) when it comes to pulling the trigger on a frame purchase. I'll report back in a few weeks when the frame arrives.
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That is one funky looking downtube!
Looking forward to the review and build.
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Nice :) Hope you will make a great video from it :)
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I'm actually still trying to understand why this frameset exists. The geometry is so extreme even by most major brand standards. I would be curious which companies Yishun produces for.
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The stack is not that extremely low if you take into account that the proprietary top headset cover will probably add around 2cm of stack height. And you’ll have to use it unless you source something lower. The reach however is definitely longer than most.
You could still make it work for most of you were to use a shorter stem. But the head angle is quite steep on this frame. Using a shorter than usual stem on top of that might make it steer really nervously.
The design is not
My cup of tea. That funky looking downtube and the seat stay/ seat tube cluster aren’t my thing. I’m curious however what it looks like as a full build.
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The stack is not that extremely low if you take into account that the proprietary top headset cover will probably add around 2cm of stack height. And you’ll have to use it unless you source something lower. The reach however is definitely longer than most.
You could still make it work for most of you were to use a shorter stem. But the head angle is quite steep on this frame. Using a shorter than usual stem on top of that might make it steer really nervously.
The design is not
My cup of tea. That funky looking downtube and the seat stay/ seat tube cluster aren’t my thing. I’m curious however what it looks like as a full build.
My latest Yoeleo R12 uses both the identical stem and proprietary headset system. Perhaps Yishun/LC does in fact produce for Yoeleo.
Without extra spacers the headset cover is 35mm and the stem is 20mm tall. Cockpit 55mm total. Frame stack height for a size 54 is 549mm.
For reference my Allez Sprint has a cockpit height of 50mm, but a frame stack of 558mm.
So technically the Yishun R086-D is lower than my Allez Sprint by 4mm, but once you factor in stem angles, handlebar drop, and the recessed headtube it should be pretty much identical. Mind you I am running a 140mm -12 stem slammed as much as possible on my Allez.
Honestly the R086-D isn't the best looking frame ever. However, a good looking bike is troublesome without an optimal bike fit. Part of the reason I have yet to do a full review on my TanTan x38 is that despite its looks (subjectively) I have not been able to optimize my fit. I'll take an ugly bike that allows me to be comfortably aero, versus a pretty bike with too much stack and not enough reach.
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About the TT-x38, except for the fit, would you recommend the frame otherwise? Is it compliant?
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About the TT-x38, except for the fit, would you recommend the frame otherwise? Is it compliant?
Check this thread out:
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,4139.0.html (https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,4139.0.html)
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let me know if you sell the Tantan frame or this one first, im looking for an obnoxiously aero bike to build lol
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let me know if you sell the Tantan frame or this one first, im looking for an obnoxiously aero bike to build lol
Haha I'm almost certain I will sell the TanTan mainly for geometry reasons. And redundancy of road bikes. Thankfully it's still unpainted and the decals should be easily removable with rubbing alcohol.
In case anyone else nerds out over frame geometry like myself, here is a comparison between the Allez, T1500, and R086-D.
Spacers height (Line 10) includes the headset cover and height of the stem/cockpit
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It has a similar stack and reach to my current bike which I use 130mm -17deg stem on.... I am a weird case though and definitely not representative.
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Without extra spacers the headset cover is 35mm and the stem is 20mm tall.
Really? But surely the clamping area on the fork steerer is taller than that? It certainly looks taller.
I must say I'm really not a fan of how these days' the head tubes on aero bikes get shorter an shorter, whilst the headset covers get bigger (because of internal routing) and spacer towers under people's cockpits get taller and taller. Add to that smaller stems, weird C ring designs and short expander plugs and you get a recipe for disaster - see the Tarmac SL7. And surely steering must feel less precise and the leverage and forces at the fork steerer / headset junction increase.
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Add to that smaller stems, weird C ring designs and short expander plugs and you get a recipe for disaster
I never ever ever use the supplied expander plugs from cheap Chinese brands. Besides being way too short, they usually don't grip the steer tube very well. I only use Neco Headset Expander in a size large, which can be found on Amazon. The extra weight is worth the extra security.
Side note: my frame shipped last night. The communication from Yishun has been very good thus far.
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I would be curious which companies Yishun produces for.
Here's one: https://prorace.be/bikes/aero/randa/
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4k for mechanical 105 with budget 300 bucks wheels, boy these guys are ambitious.
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4k for mechanical 105 with budget 300 bucks wheels, boy these guys are ambitious.
The fake Pinarello logos are worth 3k
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The fake Pinarello logos are worth 3k
Lol, seriously?
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Haha I'm almost certain I will sell the TanTan mainly for geometry reasons. And redundancy of road bikes.
Like it’s tooooo aero and harsh?
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The downside to constantly reviewing cheap frames is you eventually become apathetic and less attached towards them, as the entire process becomes monotonous. It's like the problematic nature of "fast fashion" but in the bike industry.
I live 15 minutes from the only two official Specialized flagship stores outside of California. I don't love the look of the new Tarmac SL8, but the specs are enough for me to consider dumping the majority of my cheap bike fleet to buy one.
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something about smashing people with bikes that cost a fraction of the price is something that makes me tick... i cant help it!
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The frameset arrived today. 6 days total. First impressions are the frameset legitimately looks OEM-quality. Whatever that means. The separate stem I ordered is straight identical to my latest Yoeleo R12, and Yishun also included the Di2 rubber battery seatpost mount. I don't recall any brand under $1000usd providing stuff like that. Also the included plastic headset cover and spacers are of very similar quality to both Yoeleo and Winspace. Caliper mounts (upon quick inspection) are properly faced. Probably the best faced mounts I've seen under $1000.
I can't remember whom in this forum said Yishun/LightCarbon was a step above the other cheap frames, but so far I tend to agree. If you remove the matte black paint, you're basically looking a mostly aero-ish frame around 1000g. The frame kind of has some Pinarello Dogma F elements to it with the funky shapes. The geometry and unboxing makes me excited to dismantle my TanTan x38 (I dont love that frame) so I can get this one going before fall. The only weird quirk is the fork is almost 100g heavier than any other frame I've tested. CX and gravel frames included.
Frame (Size 54): 1114g
Fork: 488g
Seatpost: 238g
Handlebar 40cm Width: 242g
Stem (130mm -10): 182g
Other Frame Weights For Reference
VeloBuild 168 (unpainted): 1005g
VeloBuild 177: 1044g
Dengfu R12 (unpainted): 1112g
TanTan x38 (unpainted): 1148g
Winspace T1500: 1218g
Yoeleo R12: 1344g
2022 Allez Sprint: 1521g
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Is that the HB058 handlebar? If so, could you check the reach, and the width of the clamping area?
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https://www.yishunbike.com/product/hb058/ (https://www.yishunbike.com/product/hb058/)
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I am planning to buy this frame but the reach is too much for me at size 540 (which is the correct size for my height). I think 520 might be the right size for me if ever I buy this frame and I'll just request for a 400mm seatpost.
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https://www.yishunbike.com/product/hb058/ (https://www.yishunbike.com/product/hb058/)
Thanks, but I was hoping you could double-check that :D I suspect this HB058 is identical to what some other brands are selling, but the reach numbers vary. On the drawing, Carbonda specifies 75mm reach, but that seems to be measured center-to-edge, not center-to-center.
Also, the 50mm clamping area is barely enough for a stem, so that wouldn't leave any clamping room for bike computers, lights, etc... Something that really annoys me on aero handlebars.
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Also, the 50mm clamping area is barely enough for a stem, so that wouldn't leave any clamping room for bike computers, lights, etc... Something that really annoys me on aero handlebars.
Almost all of them (particularly ones that leave no clamping area) will have some kind of integrated solution for an out front mount - then the light can be run below with a GoPro adapter. If not, you can get the type that screws into the stem bolts, I prefer those anyway for the super clean look.
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More pics and my initial thoughts coming soon. For now all I can say is...wow.
Rest in peace all my other cheap Chinese frames.
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More pics and my initial thoughts coming soon. For now all I can say is...wow.
Rest in peace all my other cheap Chinese frames.
Actually looks a lot better than expected! I did not like the frame shapes, but on a complete build it blends in nicely.
Will you paint the frame later on?
It even features a slight speed-sniffer! Thats some proper SL8 aerodynamics ;)
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I was gonna say the same. I really didn’t like the looks of the bare frame. But as a full build this thing looks very very nice.
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The matte black paint, aero wheels, and my saddle to bar drop really help mask the frame design quirks. I'm going to keep the bike as shown, as I'm almost at my limits mentally this season with tinkering with bikes.
Some notable things:
-The caliper mounts were perfectly faced. First time ever in a sub-$1000 frame. Took me only 10 minutes to align the brakes.
-The supplied bolts for both the saddle clamp and seatpost are robust.
Saddle clamp uses two bolts: a 5mm and 6mm size bolt.
Seatpost clamp foregoes the standard 4mm bolt in favor of a 5mm.
-I ordered a 40cm width separate handlebar. My measurements show 38cm at the hoods (center to center) and flares to 40cm in drops. This is perfect, as I originally requested 38cm bars of which were sold out.
-Fit and finish around the frame from the bottom bracket to the headset cups were practically flawless. Yes I'm aware that paint can easily cover imperfections, however this isn't any different than ordering a painted frame from any brand on the market.
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After your video review, I really want to get my hands on the 1088-D xD
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https://www.tifosicycles.co.uk/shop/bikes/aurigadisc/
same frame
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More pics and my initial thoughts coming soon. For now all I can say is...wow.
Rest in peace all my other cheap Chinese frames.
Hey Pat,
I really value your opinion. What would you recommend for a bike? I'm looking for aero (but not a all costs). Should be an allrounder, but race oriented. Not endurance or comfort. I like the sl7 and the new Cannondale (supersix, not the bulky system six). I normally do group ride around 39km/h average. Solo rides are around 33-35km/h. Mostly flat, but do like the occasional trip to hilly/mountain rides (so weight is not the main concern, but should be heavy).
Going for old school 2x11 (of 2x12) di2 or etap last gen and 45-50mm wheels.
Velobuild 177 is an option, so is the Yinsun R086-D.
What do you recon?
(last criteria: will be building myself, I hate problems like f'd-up c-rings and stuff. Dont want to fiddle around too much)
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Hey Pat,
I really value your opinion. What would you recommend for a bike? I'm looking for aero (but not a all costs). Should be an allrounder, but race oriented. Not endurance or comfort. I like the sl7 and the new Cannondale (supersix, not the bulky system six). I normally do group ride around 39km/h average. Solo rides are around 33-35km/h. Mostly flat, but do like the occasional trip to hilly/mountain rides (so weight is not the main concern, but should be heavy).
Going for old school 2x11 (of 2x12) di2 or etap last gen and 45-50mm wheels.
Velobuild 177 is an option, so is the Yinsun R086-D.
What do you recon?
(last criteria: will be building myself, I hate problems like f'd-up c-rings and stuff. Dont want to fiddle around too much)
Carbonda CFR 1056. Flawless quality, reasonable price, pretty, comfortable, not SUPER aggressive (like the Yishun, which is a straight up bar out of hell race bike geometry). I have three bikes, including a Crust and a Lynskey R500, and the Carbonda is just better for almost everything.
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Can you measure actual stack of the frame? I've been playing around with bikegeo.net and it calculates significantly shorterr stack for some of Yoshun frames (including R086 and R068). In the case lf R068, dofference is 15mm, which makes me wonder if Yishun lists the stack with headset cocer included. Other measurements like reach, front centre are in line
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Hey Pat,
I really value your opinion. What would you recommend for a bike? I'm looking for aero (but not a all costs). Should be an allrounder, but race oriented. Not endurance or comfort. I like the sl7 and the new Cannondale (supersix, not the bulky system six). I normally do group ride around 39km/h average. Solo rides are around 33-35km/h. Mostly flat, but do like the occasional trip to hilly/mountain rides (so weight is not the main concern, but should be heavy).
Going for old school 2x11 (of 2x12) di2 or etap last gen and 45-50mm wheels.
Velobuild 177 is an option, so is the Yinsun R086-D.
What do you recon?
(last criteria: will be building myself, I hate problems like f'd-up c-rings and stuff. Dont want to fiddle around too much)
I really like the Velobuild 177. They offer paint options (unlike Yishun), they've made improvement to their hardware (thanks to this forum), and you have a wealth of knowledge from experienced people in here should you choose to buy one.
As far as wheels I'm a fan of both the Elite Drives and Magene's latest Ultra wheels. In fact there is a forum member in here running a VB-177 and Magene Ultra wheels. Looks sick!
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Hey Pat,
Checked out the review. Maybe a separate topic, but it sounds like you are on the verge of tapping out on cheap Chinese frames. What would your YouTube presence look like?
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Hey Pat,
Checked out the review. Maybe a separate topic, but it sounds like you are on the verge of tapping out on cheap Chinese frames. What would your YouTube presence look like?
Ideally I’d like my channel to become more like China Cycling in terms of reviewing not-so-known brands that offer a great value, rather than just simply being budget/cheap. I’ve missed out on opportunities to review more premium products because companies assume I’ll somehow compare their offerings to cheaper alternatives.
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I’ve missed out on opportunities to review more premium products because companies assume I’ll somehow compare their offerings to cheaper alternatives.
Sounds like a good path!
But I hope you will always compare the premium products to cheaper alternatives. Value for money is what our community and your viewers are after, and not just high-end products no matter the cost.
Keep it Up!
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Hello can you confirm that the heat tube lenght is measured without the headset cover and the special spacer for integration?
How many centimeters do you need to add with the cover and spacer installed?
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Here is my first look video I uploaded last week, in case anyone missed it. So far I've ridden around 350mi/560km. It's a fantastic. This past weekend I took it out for a 85 mile ride and it performed exactly as I expected. Smooth and fast.
YouTube Search: The BEST Cheap Frame Money Can Buy - Yishun R086D First Look
https://youtu.be/4FxmE3UfJ-U?si=bEixZFssVNkMwB05 (https://youtu.be/4FxmE3UfJ-U?si=bEixZFssVNkMwB05)
The headtube length is measured without the headset integration because...this is the standard way to measure. The headset stack adds 60mm minimum if you don't use extra spacers. Looking at my bike position below, it's a pretty aggressive but sustainable setup. But it's mainly due to my long arms relative to my legs and torso, rather than trying to be super aero.
EDIT: The headset bearing cup is recessed 15mm into the headtube. So while the overall headset stack of 60mm is pretty tall for a "slammed" stem, Yishun made considerations for this which is why they recessed the headtube. Basically the headstack is effectively more like 45mm which is very comparable stack to my Winspace T1500 and 2022 Allez Sprint. And the headtube measurement is more like 145mm rather than 130mm for a size 54.
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Here is my first look video I uploaded last week, in case anyone missed it. So far I've ridden around 350mi/560km. It's a fantastic. This past weekend I took it out for a 85 mile ride and it performed exactly as I expected. Smooth and fast.
YouTube Search: The BEST Cheap Frame Money Can Buy - Yishun R086D First Look
https://youtu.be/4FxmE3UfJ-U?si=bEixZFssVNkMwB05 (https://youtu.be/4FxmE3UfJ-U?si=bEixZFssVNkMwB05)
But that's just a crappy Chinese frame... Would it not be better to buy a real brand like this Prorace? ;D https://prorace.be/en/bikes/aero/randa-dsq/ (https://prorace.be/en/bikes/aero/randa-dsq/)
It's on their website: "100% Belgian Brand
Every bike is a unique piece of art
With a passion for cycling"
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The headset stack adds 60mm minimum if you don't use extra spacers.
I'm interested in this frame but I'm confused.
Like with every other frame, stack is measured without the headset cap and any spacer. I get that.
You do obviously need to use the headset cap plus the cable routing spacer (the one that the stem goes on top of).
But are you sure that these are 60mm in total - 30mm each? That would make this frame's front end taller than any other bike I've used, even if I downsized.
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I'm interested in this frame but I'm confused.
Like with every other frame, stack is measured without the headset cap and any spacer. I get that.
You do obviously need to use the headset cap plus the cable routing spacer (the one that the stem goes on top of).
But are you sure that these are 60mm in total - 30mm each? That would make this frame's front end taller than any other bike I've used, even if I downsized.
Yishun on the left, Allez on the right.
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OK, so it's 15mm each for the top cap and the cable routing spacer, while the stem itself is 30mm tall, right? That makes a lot more sense. Thx!
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Hi Pat,
Just a question, what is your height in CM? I am considering on buying this frame but I am not sure if it will fit me because it's so aggressive. Maybe I'll try to maximize the spacers and just get a 420/110mm handlebar/stem combo to compensate the aggressiveness of the frame. I might be putting some 105 or ultegra 11 speed or if the budget allows, I'll get an LTwoo ERX..
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Hi Pat,
Just a question, what is your height in CM? I am considering on buying this frame but I am not sure if it will fit me because it's so aggressive. Maybe I'll try to maximize the spacers and just get a 420/110mm handlebar/stem combo to compensate the aggressiveness of the frame. I might be putting some 105 or ultegra 11 speed or if the budget allows, I'll get an LTwoo ERX..
I am 183cm tall.
https://geometrygeeks.bike/ (https://geometrygeeks.bike/) is a great resource to compare frames and sizes to your current bike.
Just a heads up - Yishun only provides 20-25mm of spacers.
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I asked Yishun directly what the measurements for the front end components are.
Here's their answer for anyone who's interested:
"For R086-D carbon framesest, the cable cover height is 15.94mm, headset top cover height is 17-17.4mm.
Usually we will supply 1pc 5mm height and 1pc 10mm spacers to customer together.
Please kindly check attachment again ( ignore integrated handlebar in the picture ), you will understand it clearly.
We can supply extra 5mm or 10mm spacer to you again if you need."
So, like Patrick said, you basically need to add 3cm to the stack figure of a given frame size. That is where the cockpit goes - one piece or not.
Also, they told me that the minimum required seatpost insertion would be 1/3, which amounts to 11,5cm of 35cm. So keep that in mind to determine whether you can actually set up the required seat height for a given frame size.
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So, like Patrick said, you basically need to add 3cm to the stack figure of a given frame size. That is where the cockpit goes - one piece or not.
Reach will also be shorter; probably between 1cm and 1.5cm to remove.
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Pat, can you name the next colour for my bike bro??
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Ironically, this frame is growing on me after I disliked the design initially. A size 56 could work rather well for me. I'm thinking I might give this one a shot, but I'd rather wait for your review @Patrick Lino.
Any idea as to when you might publish it?
Also, might there be some kind of affiliation deal between Yishun and you resulting in a possible discount for us?
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but I'd rather wait for your review @Patrick Lino.
Any idea as to when you might publish it?
It's the "generic" frame which can make me spent money too.
This frame is already used by some brands and you can find reviews :
https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/bikes/road-bikes/tifosi-auriga-chorus-disc-review/
https://road.cc/content/review/tifosi-auriga-disc-chorus-2022-295797
https://grinta.be/getest-prorace-randa-dsq/
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I finally found a brand that sells the 1088-D!
https://prorace.be/bikes/aero/batalla/
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I finally found a brand that sells the 1088-D!
https://prorace.be/bikes/aero/batalla/
And only 3.000€ for their frameset.
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I finally found a brand that sells the 1088-D!
https://prorace.be/bikes/aero/batalla/
Looks like a Beerbike <3
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Yesterday I brought the R086-D to my weekly fast group ride. The 2 hour training ride consists of a section of rolling hills and several sprint/drag points where we can easily hit 38-40mph on the flats with a proper tailwind. While it's technically not a road race (we re-group after every sprint section and traffic light) all the local race clubs do show up to make it quite competitive. For these type of rides I only trust my T1500 and Allez Sprint for obvious reasons.
Last year as an experiment I once brought my VeloBuild VB-168 with the same Elite Drive 65D wheels as a test. Big mistake. I was struggling all evening to put the power down as the 168 was noticeably sluggish/flexy (for me). Not great out of the saddle either.
I can confirm with both Bike Radar and Road.cc that the R086-D is a proper aero bike. Sprinting, climbing, handling into the corners at speed. The bike is fast on the flats and I did not detect any noticeable deficiencies compared to the T1500 and Allez Sprint. In fact this frame may just be slightly faster on the flats than the Allez Sprint, but I don't have any scientific data to prove it.
I've been showing up to this group ride for 2 years. Everyone knows each other well. But last night I was complimented on my ability for closing down gaps and make several bridges to the lead groups attacking up the road (I never do this LoL). While some of this is from experience and fitness, honestly the R086-D is such a bike to ridden fast with confidence.
Last thing note about the frameset specifically - I would invest in some microshims for underneath the headset cover and do a dry run of fitting the entire cockpit (including the expander plug and compression cap) before permanently routing the cables. Initially the headset cover was very slightly rubbing on the headtube. A 0.25mm microshim immediately solved the issue. I can't say if the problem was a anecdotal or a tolerance-related. No one else has reported it but just a heads up to be safe.
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Looks like a Beerbike <3
Well, it IS a Belgian brand after all ;)
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If i go with 160mm Discs, Do i need an adapter? Comes the frame with Adapters for 160mm Discs?
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Looks like a Beerbike <3
I would like to try that PIRALLI tires ::)
(BTW, for that "boutique" price, you don't even get the PZeros, just the P7s)
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I finally found a brand that sells the 1088-D!
https://prorace.be/bikes/aero/batalla/
And the R086-D ist this modell:
https://prorace.be/bikes/aero/randa/
What are the other ones from prorace.be?
https://prorace.be/bikes/aero/fusion-x/ ?
https://prorace.be/bikes/lightweight/cura/ ?
https://prorace.be/bikes/tofla/ ? ( this one looks very good and sporty vor an endurance...?)
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The Tofla is the R068-D [it might my next bike], the Cupra is probably the 1058, and maybe an unreleased bike for the fusion X? It looks really cool like the Scott foil.
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And the R086-D ist this modell:
https://prorace.be/bikes/aero/randa/
What are the other ones from prorace.be?
https://prorace.be/bikes/aero/fusion-x/ ?
https://prorace.be/bikes/lightweight/cura/ ?
https://prorace.be/bikes/tofla/ ? ( this one looks very good and sporty vor an endurance...?)
Thank you for finding and sharing theese. The Tofla seems to be Yishun R068-D which is on my shortlist. I've been waiting to see it painted and built up. Seeing it now as a Tofla I must say it looks great for an endurance category bike. If only LightCarbon could adopt the R068-D so I can have it painted straight away also it would be perfect.
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Yesterday I brought the R086-D to my weekly fast group ride. The 2 hour training ride consists of a section of rolling hills and several sprint/drag points where we can easily hit 38-40mph on the flats with a proper tailwind. While it's technically not a road race (we re-group after every sprint section and traffic light) all the local race clubs do show up to make it quite competitive. For these type of rides I only trust my T1500 and Allez Sprint for obvious reasons.
Last year as an experiment I once brought my VeloBuild VB-168 with the same Elite Drive 65D wheels as a test. Big mistake. I was struggling all evening to put the power down as the 168 was noticeably sluggish/flexy (for me). Not great out of the saddle either.
I can confirm with both Bike Radar and Road.cc that the R086-D is a proper aero bike. Sprinting, climbing, handling into the corners at speed. The bike is fast on the flats and I did not detect any noticeable deficiencies compared to the T1500 and Allez Sprint. In fact this frame may just be slightly faster on the flats than the Allez Sprint, but I don't have any scientific data to prove it.
I've been showing up to this group ride for 2 years. Everyone knows each other well. But last night I was complimented on my ability for closing down gaps and make several bridges to the lead groups attacking up the road (I never do this LoL). While some of this is from experience and fitness, honestly the R086-D is such a bike to ridden fast with confidence.
Last thing note about the frameset specifically - I would invest in some microshims for underneath the headset cover and do a dry run of fitting the entire cockpit (including the expander plug and compression cap) before permanently routing the cables. Initially the headset cover was very slightly rubbing on the headtube. A 0.25mm microshim immediately solved the issue. I can't say if the problem was a anecdotal or a tolerance-related. No one else has reported it but just a heads up to be safe.
How's your experience on the climbs? Is it better than most of the lightweight bikes? Reason I asked because it's hilly on our place and i might be having some issues climbing with this bike rather than the current one I have (Merida Scultura).
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The Tofla is the R068-D [it might my next bike], the Cupra is probably the 1058, and maybe an unreleased bike for the fusion X? It looks really cool like the Scott foil.
Looks like the TanTan X38.
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Geometry for the R086-D is now updated live on the website.
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And the R086-D ist this modell:
https://prorace.be/bikes/aero/randa/
What are the other ones from prorace.be?
https://prorace.be/bikes/aero/fusion-x/ ?
https://prorace.be/bikes/lightweight/cura/ ?
https://prorace.be/bikes/tofla/ ? ( this one looks very good and sporty vor an endurance...?)
The Cura also has a different geometry than Yishun has on their own website. Curious to see if that also gets updated over time. For a long time I thought that the Flybike Carbonda stuff was a cut above the other available open molds, but the recent stuff on here from Yishun is really impressive and I am certainly following the 1058-d to see where it goes.
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Cura's 546 / 383 stack/reach is familiar to me. I just can't remember where I saw that stack/reach
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The Cura also has a different geometry than Yishun has on their own website. Curious to see if that also gets updated over time. For a long time I thought that the Flybike Carbonda stuff was a cut above the other available open molds, but the recent stuff on here from Yishun is really impressive and I am certainly following the 1058-d to see where it goes.
R086-D on yishun site had error, just updated yesterday
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Yesterday I brought the R086-D to my weekly fast group ride. The 2 hour training ride consists of a section of rolling hills and several sprint/drag points where we can easily hit 38-40mph on the flats with a proper tailwind. While it's technically not a road race (we re-group after every sprint section and traffic light) all the local race clubs do show up to make it quite competitive. For these type of rides I only trust my T1500 and Allez Sprint for obvious reasons.
Last year as an experiment I once brought my VeloBuild VB-168 with the same Elite Drive 65D wheels as a test. Big mistake. I was struggling all evening to put the power down as the 168 was noticeably sluggish/flexy (for me). Not great out of the saddle either.
I can confirm with both Bike Radar and Road.cc that the R086-D is a proper aero bike. Sprinting, climbing, handling into the corners at speed. The bike is fast on the flats and I did not detect any noticeable deficiencies compared to the T1500 and Allez Sprint. In fact this frame may just be slightly faster on the flats than the Allez Sprint, but I don't have any scientific data to prove it.
I've been showing up to this group ride for 2 years. Everyone knows each other well. But last night I was complimented on my ability for closing down gaps and make several bridges to the lead groups attacking up the road (I never do this LoL). While some of this is from experience and fitness, honestly the R086-D is such a bike to ridden fast with confidence.
Last thing note about the frameset specifically - I would invest in some microshims for underneath the headset cover and do a dry run of fitting the entire cockpit (including the expander plug and compression cap) before permanently routing the cables. Initially the headset cover was very slightly rubbing on the headtube. A 0.25mm microshim immediately solved the issue. I can't say if the problem was a anecdotal or a tolerance-related. No one else has reported it but just a heads up to be safe.
Patrick, I decided to make the leap especially after reading some of the reviews of brands using that frameset. Wanted the integrated handlebar { 400±10 g} but they had none available at 38cm so i went the sep bar and stem route { 250+-/10g + 163±5g) especially since strangely there seemed hardly any weight difference. Looking at the pics, the stem looks like the sep stem/bar one for Velobuilt VBR 168. This then makes me wonder if i can use a integrated stem and bar combo I have on the VBR168 {got it from a company called airwolf). Plan to install semi hydraulic callipers {found some really good ones -ONIRII) and go the di2 11 speed route. Should save me at least 200 grams vs going 12 speed di2 105 or Ltwoo ERX.
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Yesterday I brought the R086-D to my weekly fast group ride. The 2 hour training ride consists of a section of rolling hills and several sprint/drag points where we can easily hit 38-40mph on the flats with a proper tailwind. While it's technically not a road race (we re-group after every sprint section and traffic light) all the local race clubs do show up to make it quite competitive. For these type of rides I only trust my T1500 and Allez Sprint for obvious reasons.
Last year as an experiment I once brought my VeloBuild VB-168 with the same Elite Drive 65D wheels as a test. Big mistake. I was struggling all evening to put the power down as the 168 was noticeably sluggish/flexy (for me). Not great out of the saddle either.
I can confirm with both Bike Radar and Road.cc that the R086-D is a proper aero bike. Sprinting, climbing, handling into the corners at speed. The bike is fast on the flats and I did not detect any noticeable deficiencies compared to the T1500 and Allez Sprint. In fact this frame may just be slightly faster on the flats than the Allez Sprint, but I don't have any scientific data to prove it.
I've been showing up to this group ride for 2 years. Everyone knows each other well. But last night I was complimented on my ability for closing down gaps and make several bridges to the lead groups attacking up the road (I never do this LoL). While some of this is from experience and fitness, honestly the R086-D is such a bike to ridden fast with confidence.
Last thing note about the frameset specifically - I would invest in some microshims for underneath the headset cover and do a dry run of fitting the entire cockpit (including the expander plug and compression cap) before permanently routing the cables. Initially the headset cover was very slightly rubbing on the headtube. A 0.25mm microshim immediately solved the issue. I can't say if the problem was a anecdotal or a tolerance-related. No one else has reported it but just a heads up to be safe.
Nice to read that Pat.
Just to be curious, W/Kg of that "race" rides?
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I am 183cm tall.
https://geometrygeeks.bike/ (https://geometrygeeks.bike/) is a great resource to compare frames and sizes to your current bike.
Just a heads up - Yishun only provides 20-25mm of spacers.
You have a long torso and short legs right?
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Yishun is building me a set of these wheels to test. They should be delivered this week:
https://www.yishunbike.com/product/rbd50c/ (https://www.yishunbike.com/product/rbd50c/)
Model 206DB-RBD50C
-Arch Bridge design (think ENVE/Princeton)
-50mm Depth
-Ext Width 30mm, Int Width 23mm 8)
-Pillar Wing 20 Spokes
-Straight pull hubs w/ ENDURO bearings, 36T star ratchet (DT style)
-Claimed weigh around 1490g
From Yishun:
"Net price 539 usd + delivery cost 100 usd around, we sell to others."
My Winspace Hyper D67 wheels are my road favorite wheels. However, they are freaking $1500 now :o
I recently have been testing Magene's latest DB508 Ultra wheels with 23mm internal width and let me tell you - this has been a game changer for me. The comfort of 23mm width internal is superior to 21mm because of the wider contact patch the tire has to the road. And you can run slightly lower tire pressure.
I say this to say that I'm really looking forward to these Yishun wheels. They should easily become my most versatile set of wheels for both road and gravel. And I think for the price, they will give Yoeleo and other sub-$1000 wheels a run for their money. Xiamen wheel builders (Yishun, Wheelsfar, Light Bicycle) offer some of the best value for wheels. However, the majority of the wheel expense come from using brand name hubs like DT Swiss or Chris King. I have found that the recent star ratchet design Xiamen wheel builders are using are just as good. And MUCH cheaper.
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Yishun is building me a set of these wheels to test. They should be delivered this week:
https://www.yishunbike.com/product/rbd50c/ (https://www.yishunbike.com/product/rbd50c/)
Model 206DB-RBD50C
-Arch Bridge design (think ENVE/Princeton)
-50mm Depth
-Ext Width 30mm, Int Width 23mm 8)
-Pillar Wing 20 Spokes
-Straight pull hubs w/ ENDURO bearings, 36T star ratchet (DT style)
-Claimed weigh around 1490g
From Yishun:
"Net price 539 usd + delivery cost 100 usd around, we sell to others."
My Winspace Hyper D67 wheels are my road favorite wheels. However, they are freaking $1500 now :o
I recently have been testing Magene's latest DB508 Ultra wheels with 23mm internal width and let me tell you - this has been a game changer for me. The comfort of 23mm width internal is superior to 21mm because of the wider contact patch the tire has to the road. And you can run slightly lower tire pressure.
I say this to say that I'm really looking forward to these Yishun wheels. They should easily become my most versatile set of wheels for both road and gravel. And I think for the price, they will give Yoeleo and other sub-$1000 wheels a run for their money. Xiamen wheel builders (Yishun, Wheelsfar, Light Bicycle) offer some of the best value for wheels. However, the majority of the wheel expense come from using brand name hubs like DT Swiss or Chris King. I have found that the recent star ratchet design Xiamen wheel builders are using are just as good. And MUCH cheaper.
Exactly these wheels I have also been offered!
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@patliean1 been watching their wheels for some months now LightCarbon Super Light C67DB Undulating) but from one of their other name's cproxy, 45=50 mm depth, 1319 grams, more thinking a Christmas gift to myself. How are you finding the yoelero sat wheels?
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@patliean1 been watching their wheels for some months now LightCarbon Super Light C67DB Undulating) but from one of their other name's cproxy, 45=50 mm depth, 1319 grams, more thinking a Christmas gift to myself. How are you finding the yoelero sat wheels?
The Yoeleo Pro 50 wheels are very comfortable especially with latex tubes. Steel spokes in general just handle bad roads better than carbon spokes. My original set of Magene Exar wheels also came with steel spokes, and I paired them tubeless 32 Conti GP5000s. Both the Yoeleo and Magene are like riding on clouds.
Besides being a bit of a weight weenie, I still do prefer carbon spokes for the stiffness, lighter weight, and tire feedback. One thing I should note regarding the R086-D frameset: It's not the most comfortable bike when ridden slowly. I think steel spoke wheel will help but then you will lose a little bit of responsiveness. Then again you can always increase the tire pressure. The bike truly comes alive when ridden fast or at least at tempo.
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If the Yoeleo Pro 50 with 20mm internal width is like riding on clouds, what's the point of more comfort from the 23mm internal width?
Just assuming that riding on clouds is a pretty high level of comfort...
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It's sad, they updated the price of R086D and R1088D and increased it by $100. I remember last 2 months I asked it was just $629 and $649 respectively.
Regardless, I am still going to buy either of frame,
Also, I asked Lightcarbon if they are still one with Yishun. Here's the response from Gavin;
"We had some more cooperation with Yishun in the past, but now we have become completely independent companies
Yishun sells those products that showed on yishun website, and LightCarbon sells the products that showed on lightcarbon website. "
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It's sad, they updated the price of R086D and R1088D and increased it by $100. I remember last 2 months I asked it was just $629 and $649 respectively.
Regardless, I am still going to buy either of frame,
Also, I asked Lightcarbon if they are still one with Yishun. Here's the response from Gavin;
"We had some more cooperation with Yishun in the past, but now we have become completely independent companies
Yishun sells those products that showed on yishun website, and LightCarbon sells the products that showed on lightcarbon website. "
dayum they some low frames man. my long legs/short torso can't handle that geo :(
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My 206DB-RBD50C wheels arrived today. Took 5 calendar days from Xiamen to Chicago via FedEx. First ride with them will be this evening using the same tires and TPU tubes for comparison.
Weight without tubeless rim tape: 1471g
Because the wheels were provided at a discount for the sake of a video review (my idea not theirs) the wheels neither came with tubeless rim tape installed, nor was rim tape or spare spokes provided. Also keep in mind these are $500 not $1000 wheels, but I'll still ask Yishun about this. Thankfully I had spare rim tape and it literally only takes 5 minute.
Considering Yoeleo, Magene, and Elite are offering similarly spec'd wheels for $100 to $400 more, I can live without the included rim tape and spokes.
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didn't think people still ordered holes in their rimbed in 2023
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It's sad, they updated the price of R086D and R1088D and increased it by $100. I remember last 2 months I asked it was just $629 and $649 respectively.
Regardless, I am still going to buy either of frame,
Also, I asked Lightcarbon if they are still one with Yishun. Here's the response from Gavin;
"We had some more cooperation with Yishun in the past, but now we have become completely independent companies
Yishun sells those products that showed on yishun website, and LightCarbon sells the products that showed on lightcarbon website. "
I guess inflation finally hit them as well. I hope they did not increase the price for the R068
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hey Pat, have you tried this frame on a climb? how was it? I am really close on buying this frame (maybe tomorrow I place an order and finally decide)
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hey Pat, have you tried this frame on a climb? how was it? I am really close on buying this frame (maybe tomorrow I place an order and finally decide)
There are no actual climbs in Chicago. Only a few punchy rolling hills. I would argue that if you're looking for a climbing-focused frame, an aero frame probably isn't the best choice. The frame is plenty stiff however, which is important when climbing.
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There are no actual climbs in Chicago. Only a few punchy rolling hills. I would argue that if you're looking for a climbing-focused frame, an aero frame probably isn't the best choice. The frame is plenty stiff however, which is important when climbing.
Thanks and I really appreciate the response! I would use the frame for road racing, mainly for criterium but some hill climbing would do. I asked because it's really hilly on our area. a regular 40km 2 hour ride would have 1000 meter elevation gain on my usual practice route and some places have 12% - 22% grade climbs which is my also route.
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Some additional pics of what appears to be the R086-D frame.
https://www.facebook.com/profile/100057480218997/search/?q=tifosi
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Finally got a response back from Yishun:
Hi Friend,
700C disc brake R086 road frame available with size 52cm.
HB088-42x120 remain the final one.
It is USD913 per set.
Including with frame/fork/seat post/HB088 integrated handlebar/headset/2 spacers/front & rear thru axle skewers/computer mount.
Also add with UPS delivery cost, and paypal payment fee.
Frameset with UD matte finish without decals.
Order now, you can receive the frameset after 7-9 days.
Does indeed look like the price for the frame has increased, but based on Patrick's feedback I'm ready to make a purchase. Just wish I could get it painted for a reasonable cost.
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Finally got a response back from Yishun:
Hi Friend,
700C disc brake R086 road frame available with size 52cm.
HB088-42x120 remain the final one.
It is USD913 per set.
Including with frame/fork/seat post/HB088 integrated handlebar/headset/2 spacers/front & rear thru axle skewers/computer mount.
Also add with UPS delivery cost, and paypal payment fee.
Frameset with UD matte finish without decals.
Order now, you can receive the frameset after 7-9 days.
Does indeed look like the price for the frame has increased, but based on Patrick's feedback I'm ready to make a purchase. Just wish I could get it painted for a reasonable cost.
Yishun will paint it I believe. It's pretty good. I got my forks done in gloss black and it was surprisingly cheap.
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Pulled the trigger and went to buy this frame. Wish me luck that I can still climb the hills like with my current bike which is an aluminum merida scultura rim brake.
Planning to have LTwoo ER9 as the drivetrain and brakeset, my trusted Shimano 105 as cranks and an 11-32 cogs. I am also planning to buy some 50mm deep ProX wheelset.
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Why not going for 11-34 for climbs? XD For the wheels, you could go for the undulating 5045 with carbon spokes xD.
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@Dark17, let us know how it goes especially the wheels, been eyeing them for about a year (ProX Super Light Carbon Spoke Wheels C67DB) may nake it a self Christmas gift. Want too know how it rides on rough roads
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Why not going for 11-34 for climbs? XD For the wheels, you could go for the undulating 5045 with carbon spokes xD.
Would like to have 11-34 but I would still like to feel some resistance on some 15% and above climbs that's why I chose 11-32. I use 11-30 at the moment and it's not like we have climbs like Tourmalet or Pyrenees anyways (tho we have Sierra Madre and Baguio mountains but those are far away from where I live).
Choice of carbon spokes is not for the roads in the Philippines as we have bad road conditions.
My first choice would be this wheels.
https://www.proxcarbon.com/prox-carbon-road-undulating-depth-disc-wheels-c52db-ratchet-freehub-system_p97.html
I would do a little more research and expand my choices for now.
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@ Dark17 Yeah the ratchet system read pretty much like my Yoelero Sat DB wheels which are about double that price, same spokes look
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@ Dark17 Yeah the ratchet system read pretty much like my Yoelero Sat DB wheels which are about double that price, same spokes look
Yeah, and the price is just USD409/pair like WTF? I am thinking about if these are quality wheels with that price point but they are also Lightcarbon so quality is supposed to be really good.
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Yeah, and the price is just USD409/pair like WTF? I am thinking about if these are quality wheels with that price point but they are also Lightcarbon so quality is supposed to be really good.
I think their in house hub brings price down a fair bit. I'm going to grab a set of prox wheels for a gravel build I'll do shortly. Hard to beat that price.
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Frame already arrived. I will be taking pictures later as I inspect the frame. Initial impression is, the reach is really long lol. Glad that I just ordered 100mm integrated handlebar.
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Frame already arrived. I will be taking pictures later as I inspect the frame. Initial impression is, the reach is really long lol. Glad that I just ordered 100mm integrated handlebar.
should be able to get pretty aero on such a long and low frame. good for you if you have long arms or long torso/short legs.
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@Dark17 what size frame did you get? What's your height, and inseam? Ended up getting the size 500 to match a 54 *medium ) tarmac sl7/ Velobuild VBR 168 geometry 520 was also an option but I did not want something with a higher stack
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@Dark17 what size frame did you get? What's your height, and inseam? Ended up getting the size 500 to match a 54 *medium ) tarmac sl7/ Velobuild VBR 168 geometry 520 was also an option but I did not want something with a higher stack
I went with size 540 since the stack is the closest to my current bike which is an s/m Merida Scultura 200. I also took into consideration on what my fitter said that my current bike is too small for me and we slapped a 120mm stem and zero offset seatpost to get into right fit. My height is 176cm with 83cm inseam.
BTW I am attaching a very low quality image of the frameset. I am still deciding for a groupset if I will go with ER9 or just a mechanical Ultegra.
Size of my handlebar is 420/100. I really wanted a 400/100 but it was out of stock even the separate handlebar/stem.
I am no expert on quality checking, but my untrained eyes saw that the frame is built well. Bottom Bracket is pretty well built and the headset went in pretty quick.
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Anyone ready to share their ride experience? Went with the size 500 frameset. My height is 172.7 cm, inseam 83. Have a size 54 VB 168 but felt as if I could size down to a 52. The 500 was slightly longer than my current bike and also slightly shorter. Found the bike very responsive to power input. When it came to rolling hills, found myself having to pedal less. Bike had me passing persons who were pedaling, probably due to its aero dynamics. Had someone on the group ride comment that the bike really likes to move. Paired the frame with my yoeleo Sat 50 DB wheels with Corsa Next tubeless tires. Back tire had in a ridenow tube (had some issues seating a new tire so I am using a tube for now to help the seating process), front had sealant Been told sometimes its best to ride new tubeless tires with a tube in order to properly seat them
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No ride experience yet. LTwoo ER9 is on the way and I am yet to buy some wheels. I am picking which of LightCarbon's Undulating rims with upgraded Sapim CX-Ray spokes (downgraded hubs to 4 pawls + steel bearings because I don't want ceramic) or Yishun's 206DB-RBD50C.
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Hello, I'm planning on building one too. Is the headset provided by Yishun good, or should I get another one (FSA)?
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Hello, I'm planning on building one too. Is the headset provided by Yishun good, or should I get another one (FSA)?
Bearings are decent, however you should ALWAYS use your own expander/compression plug versus the provided one. I use Neco Headset Expander (size large) on all my cheap bike frames.
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Bearings are decent, however you should ALWAYS use your own expander/compression plug versus the provided one. I use Neco Headset Expander (size large) on all my cheap bike frames.
Did you also changed the D-Shape compression plug on the seatpost?
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I find the Cane Creek Ancora Expansion Plug , even better than the Neco ones. Its not that Neco is bad, just find the Ancora better.
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Bearings are decent, however you should ALWAYS use your own expander/compression plug versus the provided one. I use Neco Headset Expander (size large) on all my cheap bike frames.
Noob question: can I ask why?
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Noob question: can I ask why?
Not a noob question at all. Budget frames are supplied with budget hardware. I've found that the default expander plugs on cheap bikes don't grip the steer tube well. And are too short. Over time the headset stack will develop headset play as the plug slips from road vibrations and bumps.
Also running a longer (albeit heavier) plug means you can safely run spacers above the stem and still have the plug extend below the second/lower stem bolt clamping force.
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Not a noob question at all. Budget frames are supplied with budget hardware. I've found that the default expander plugs on cheap bikes don't grip the steer tube well. And are too short. Over time the headset stack will develop headset play as the plug slips from road vibrations and bumps.
Also running a longer (albeit heavier) plug means you can safely run spacers above the stem and still have the plug extend below the second/lower stem bolt clamping force.
Thanks!
An idea for one of your videos, you could try to summarize your experience or advice when building a bike with cheap components, that could help everyone! It could be the small little tricks to make the build better or easier
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Noob question: can I ask why?
Wondering the same. In my experience the Neco expanders are very long but actually pretty low quality.
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Wondering the same. In my experience the Neco expanders are very long but actually pretty low quality.
I've had a similar experience with the poor quality neco expanders. Wouldn't touch them again.
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What compression plugs would you guys recommend?
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I can recommend the 70mm long version from Deda Elementi. Not available in the US though, IIRC.
Also, it’s not only about having support against the clamping force of the stem. Most shorter expanders provide this as well as the stem obviously sits on top of the steerer and has a stack height of max 40mm. It’s also about providing stability against the bending forces that occur when going over bumps or pulling on the bars. Ideally, if your frame is the correct size and you’re not using a humongous tower of spacers underneath the stem, the expander will protrude all the way or almost until the upper headset bearing. This provides maximum stability.
This for instance is also why Specialized provided super long expanders in their Tarmac SL7 recall. The steerer movement under load meant that the compression ring of the upper headset ate into the carbon steerer until it snapped. The new expander limits this. In my opinion this issue is not isolated to the Tarmac SL7. It’s a problem of internal cable routing designs per se.
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I can recommend the 70mm long version from Deda Elementi. Not available in the US though, IIRC.
Also, it’s not only about having support against the clamping force of the stem. Most shorter expanders provide this as well as the stem obviously sits on top of the steerer and has a stack height of max 40mm. It’s also about providing stability against the bending forces that occur when going over bumps or pulling on the bars. Ideally, if your frame is the correct size and you’re not using a humongous tower of spacers underneath the stem, the expander will protrude all the way or almost until the upper headset bearing. This provides maximum stability.
This for instance is also why Specialized provided super long expanders in their Tarmac SL7 recall. The steerer movement under load meant that the compression ring of the upper headset ate into the carbon steerer until it snapped. The new expander limits this. In my opinion this issue is not isolated to the Tarmac SL7. It’s a problem of internal cable routing designs per se.
The end result is correct, a longer plug is helpful. The reason why isn't correct. It's sort of off topic, but it's worth thinking about in the name of safety of internal routing systems. I've been working on trying to make <2mm over bearing options possible (largely for my own use) and it's really hard because of what's involved and the potential risks of not getting it right.
The majority of the bending forces are borne by the carbon tube. Carbon is exceptionally good at managing loads like that and the expander is fit via a very small amount of friction. It's not going to do a whole lot in terms of keeping that tube rigid and preventing bending. What it does do is that it prevents the carbon tube from shearing locally as it preloads the carbon tube.
Historically a long expander wasn't as critical because the steerer made contact with the compression ring nearly 360 degrees and was held relatively tight against the upper bearing. Even if you lost preload and the bending got worse, the typical symptom was your steerer developing the "ring of death." This meant eventual failure but more often than not seems to be spotted before it led to an accident when riders checked on chronically loose headsets.
The SL7 failures also start with the loss of headset preload. This causes three things to happen. First the bending moment increases exponentially, second the steerer is now facing local impacts against the compression spacer which in the SL7s case was a relatively small surface area part, third the steerer can get worn via movement against the metal spacer and because of the design of that spacer would rapidly develop the "ring of death." These three meant that fork failures happened much faster than on other bikes. The SL7 fix therefore needed to address all three: improved plug, extension hanging off the bottom to limit the effect of those impacts, and a metal ring to be a new wear surface and further distribute forces around the steerer
This is less of a problem for other systems like the FSA ACR because their compression plugs use a different design that's heavier but less likely to lead to preload loss and their C ring has more contact area. Its even less of a problem for the current gen Deda DCR because it uses a nylon spacer that will wear the carbon less and it's designed to fit tightly to the steerer. It's also 15mm deep which has even more contact area.
With all of these systems you should check them every few thousand miles or so even if you have never had any issues with preload to look for wear. If your headset can't hold preload, I would chuck it and replace it with either the FSA or Deda system that fits.
TLDR: Headset preload is more important than ever. Don't ride with a loose headset. Using a high quality insert / expander will certainly help!
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Thanks for elaborating, @Sakizashi. Very enlightening!
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So basically, based on my not-so-good understanding of the issue, compression plug up until upper headset bearing = better right? And failure of headset happens because of short compression plug which results to headset preload and eventual destruction of the steerer?
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The Cane Creek Ancora Expansion Plug was designed to take care of the issues mentioned. It was designed specifically for carbon steerers to prevent them from getting damaged. Here is a link to a review of it https://www.roadbikerider.com/ancora-expansion-plug-steerer-tubes/ . Used to used Neco but found that Cane creek held better
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So basically, based on my not-so-good understanding of the issue, compression plug up until upper headset bearing = better right? And failure of headset happens because of short compression plug which results to headset preload and eventual destruction of the steerer?
Once the stem is tight you don't lose preload because of the plug. The issue is the plug moving when adding preload during installation or mitigating damage due to the loss of preload due to an accident on the road that moves the stem (e.g., hitting a pothole). Modern headsets have an inner bearing that's chamfered. The ones where the cables don't pass though use a very thin compression ring to ensure a tight fit and deal with tolerance issues. Most designs need <2nm of preload. The challenge with the headsets designed to pass cables though is that the the compression rings require higher preload. FSA specs 5nm for their ACR system and quite a few others are in the 4nm range. Because of this, using a quality expander plug is critical to prevent it from slipping out during installation.
A longer plug never hurts, but the importance of a longer plug depends on the design of the compression ring. Length helps because it pre-tensions the steerer tube which can help mitigate local damage if preload is lost. However, this kind of damage is less of a risk with the ACR and DCR systems because of the way their compression rings are designed. That also holds true for the Token Cable Box system and the Enve Inroute / Chris King Aeroset. This is why those systems come stock with expansion plugs that are 40-50mm vs. 70mm+
Edit: also wanted to add that on the SL8 Specialized switched to a composite ring, also redesigned with more contact area which reduces the potential for damage, though they still have a very long extension under their expander plug
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1000 mile / 1600 km Update
I've been riding my new Giant Propel Advanced Pro for the past two weeks. So switching back to the Yishun really helps put perspective on the frame and it characteristics.
Also I have been using the R086-D with a variety of wheels: Winspace Hyper D67, Elite Drive 65D, Yishun's own wheels, and Yoeleo C50 Pro. A mix between latex and TPU tubes.
Negatives:
-The upper bottle cage mount is too high. While it's easier to grab, it can make putting the bottle back tedious at times. It's probably less aero too and you may not be able to use an extra large bottle without hitting the top tube.
-The gap between the down tube and front wheel. I can't imagine this section being aero since the sizable gap could lead to turbulent air and subsequent drag. Not sure how Yishun could resolve this while keeping the same stack and reach.
Positives:
-The frame is stiff and but not punishing. A $1500-worthy frame for sure and way more exciting to ride than my Yoeleo R12. No detectable power loss through the bottom bracket. Everything "just works" when the speeds get fast. The back end/rear triangle isn't as composed (over bad pavement) as my Propel/AllezSprint/T1500 but decent enough given the price. And superior to all my other sub-$1000 frames.
-The geometry and design as a whole lends itself to be an awesome gran fondo bike. It's not as nimble as the aforementioned bikes but it makes up for it in control.
Even if the R086-D design or geometry isn't for you, I have no reason to believe Yishun's other offerings won't have the same higher level of performance, fit and finish for the price. Pay very close attention to your bike fit and wheel/choice. Not surprising these two areas will dramatically determine who you feel about the frame. You can mitigate the stiffness with 23mm internal wheels with steel spokes. I need to reduce my fleet of aero bikes and the R086-D will probably be the reason I sell my Allez Sprint.
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1000 mile / 1600 km Update
I've been riding my new Giant Propel Advanced Pro for the past two weeks. So switching back to the Yishun really helps put perspective on the frame and it characteristics.
Also I have been using the R086-D with a variety of wheels: Winspace Hyper D67, Elite Drive 65D, Yishun's own wheels, and Yoeleo C50 Pro. A mix between latex and TPU tubes.
Negatives:
-The upper bottle cage mount is too high. While it's easier to grab, it can make putting the bottle back tedious at times. It's probably less aero too and you may not be able to use an extra large bottle without hitting the top tube.
-The gap between the down tube and front wheel. I can't imagine this section being aero since the sizable gap could lead to turbulent air and subsequent drag. Not sure how Yishun could resolve this while keeping the same stack and reach.
Positives:
-The frame is stiff and but not punishing. A $1500-worthy frame for sure and way more exciting to ride than my Yoeleo R12. No detectable power loss through the bottom bracket. Everything "just works" when the speeds get fast. The back end/rear triangle isn't as composed (over bad pavement) as my Propel/AllezSprint/T1500 but decent enough given the price. And superior to all my other sub-$1000 frames.
-The geometry and design as a whole lends itself to be an awesome gran fondo bike. It's not as nimble as the aforementioned bikes but it makes up for it in control.
Even if the R086-D design or geometry isn't for you, I have no reason to believe Yishun's other offerings won't have the same higher level of performance, fit and finish for the price. Pay very close attention to your bike fit and wheel/choice. Not surprising these two areas will dramatically determine who you feel about the frame. You can mitigate the stiffness with 23mm internal wheels with steel spokes. I need to reduce my fleet of aero bikes and the R086-D will probably be the reason I sell my Allez Sprint.
Please don't give Yishun idea about the price, they might bump up their price even more higher /s
How does this bike compare to the Giant Propel? Of course Giant is much better but what do you think is the difference between the two frames?
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The Propel is not “four times or x4” better than the Yishun. $3000usd versus $750usd. The marginal gains follow the law of diminishing returns. But considering Giant’s competitors, $3000 is a great value for a 2nd tier frame from a big brand.
What the Propel does better than the Yishun is fit finish, warranty, bike handling, and how frame (particularly the rear triangle) responds to bad pavement. Pairing the Yishun with deeper sectioned carbon spoke wheels makes for a harsh ride for most people. More harsh than my Allez Sprint, but not as harsh as my Dengfu or Tan Tan x38.
The Propel does not suffer from this regardless of wheel choice. It’s a very controlled and predictable ride regardless of pavement. Stiff out of the saddle yet comfortable as an entire system. I’m assuming sub $1500 frames obviously don’t have the engineering budget to wind tunnel test their frames or make considerations to carbon layup. Let alone the quality of carbon being used.
In a vacuum, these small differences aren’t major. But collectively as an entire package they make for a superior ride. You can immediately and tangibly feel your riding an engineered bike. Unlike like my Tan Tan x38 and VB 168 where it feels like the factory simply threw a bunch of carbon together with their eyes closed.
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Patrick - Spent 4+ minutes studying your photo trying to locate the stand...did you edit it out? ???
My R086-D arrived in 7 days. I've yet to build it up but the bottle placement on my 500mm seems fine. Perhaps an issue with larger sizes...
In theory, the geometry suits me perfectly with the added benefit of a lower stack. I race USAC and my strength is getting in long breakaways. I'm known in the area for offering very little draft so I'm very interested if I can keep that CdA advantage rolling with this setup. I also race a lot of crits so this price-point really makes sense to me from a sustainability standpoint. Win-win.
I'll post pics and feedback once I get this thing on the road. Cheers!
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Bottle cage height can be lowered with an adapter that bolts to where the cage is now. Not super pretty but probably barely visible once a bottle is in there.
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@Sebastian yep for about 12.00 on amazon. For my 500 frameset, its not an issue (yes there is a bit of frame rub when you put it in and take it out) and I have a size 500 frame and a 24 oz bottle. Actually find it easier to take it in an out than my other frames (less of a struggle reaching for the cage). In the future will look at getting some aero bottle and cages. Reading from some studies that the regular cages and bottles can cause you to lose as much at 10 watts
A criticism I have of yishun is they need to be more detailed with the torque for the various bolts (only a few components included a torque label). I see Elves has it listed on their website. Yishun should do same or include a paper with the frameset stating this info. Note: Had issues with my seat-post dropping even though I set it to the max (note i am 68kg) stated on the component of 8nm (pot holes). They suggested I go 10 and it worked. Also had to use medium strength thread-locker on the stem and handlebar bolts (pot holes) in order to keep them from loosening
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@Sebastian yep for about 12.00 on amazon. For my 500 frameset, its not an issue (yes there is a bit of frame rub when you put it in and take it out) and I have a size 500 frame and a 24 oz bottle. Actually find it easier to take it in an out than my other frames (less of a struggle reaching for the cage). In the future will look at getting some aero bottle and cages. Reading from some studies that the regular cages and bottles can cause you to lose as much at 10 watts
A criticism I have of yishun is they need to be more detailed with the torque for the various bolts (only a few components included a torque label). I see Elves has it listed on their website. Yishun should do same or include a paper with the frameset stating this info. Note: Had issues with my seat-post dropping even though I set it to the max (note i am 68kg) stated on the component of 8nm (pot holes). They suggested I go 10 and it worked. Also had to use medium strength thread-locker on the stem and handlebar bolts (pot holes) in order to keep them from loosening
I emailed Melinda and asked for Torque specifications of the frame. Will post here as soon as i get a response. I am also in the middle of building the frame as I already have my wheelset which is Yishun's 206db-RSL50c
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Seen this Canyon Aeroad CF SLX 8 for sale in my neighborhood. Looks familiar...
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@Pat especially the rear
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I did a first ride earlier with this bike. Tho I can't see the difference yet because I haven't did a thorough fit, bike came really really fast on rolling speeds and descents. I have yet to do a training ride because I still need to do some tweaks on my saddle fore/aft and specially headset because I can't seem to get the preload sweet spot.
Does anyone had issues with their headset preload?
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Dark17, try using about a 3mm spacer just before the top cap and see Pat Leno's recommendation re a .25mm micro spacer in this thread. The spacer before the top cap is just in case you did not cut the steerer short enough, to prevent it from rubbing against the top cap
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Having similar issues with the headset preload, can you point out where the spacer(s) need to go? I'm not all that familiar with the terminology. - thx
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Dark17, try using about a 3mm spacer just before the top cap and see Pat Leno's recommendation re a .25mm micro spacer in this thread. The spacer before the top cap is just in case you did not cut the steerer short enough, to prevent it from rubbing against the top cap
My mechanic suggested to sand this part because it was rubbing against the headtube when we set the preload until no headset play occurs. I already asked Melinda if it is advisable but I guess I will have my reply on monday.
For the performance review of the frame, I did a ride on some of my usual routes (albeit a shorter one) and all I can say is, the bike is fast! Really good on climbs despite being an aero bike. Really aggressive frame but with the proper fit and some long rides to get used to the geometry, it will be a really good racing bike. TBH if I don't have an experience on disc brakes, I would crash the eff out on descents because this bike descends real fast.
Overall, the bike is really fast on flats and descends and descent on climbs, tho I still need to get used to the geometry of the frame by doing a proper bike fit and doing more endurance rides to get used to the frame.
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Please note I did not use the supplied compression plug. When I tried it I found there was too much play. Used Cane Creek Ancora Expansion Plug. See attachment for spacer placement(s)
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Please note I did not use the supplied compression plug. When I tried it I found there was too much play. Used Cane Creek Ancora Expansion Plug. See attachment for spacer placement(s)
Guess it's probably too late that I haven't put a 0.25mm spacer between the headset cover and the compression ring. I also used another expander plug which is from Neco brand. I tried using Deda Expander 70 but i had bad experiences on that brand so i guess I'll stick to Neco for the meantime. Maybe the last thing I do is to sand the headset cover until it doesn't rub the headset tube.
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Dark17 or use a spacer (you can also try a 1mm one) before the screw in the headset cover. It will sit just before the cover. Would save you from having to sand down the cover
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Dark17 or use a spacer (you can also try a 1mm one) before the screw in the headset cover. It will sit just before the cover. Would save you from having to sand down the cover
I'm sorry but what screw are you talking about? Could you point it out for me? I already assembled the internal routing so I might need to sand the headset cover instead :(
Edit:
It's also my first time building a bike by myself. It was a beautiful experience tho there are a few quite expensive mistakes I also made.
-Bought an poor quality bottom bracket so I bought another BB and from now on, I'll just stick to Shimano bottom brackets
-2 Deda expander plugs and both of them have shit quality
-Didn't understand the technicalities of Patrick's advice so I ended up fixing my headset for several days which I did not even fixed lol. Now I'm gonna sand the headset cover so it will not rub the headset tube.
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Dark17 our bolt will differ because I had a lighter one, I used but you should get the idea. You will also notice the spacer just below the top cap
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ohh i see, I used to have a spacer just before my top cap but it also did not work for me. I just returned all of the supplied spacers because the stack is pretty low without them so i removed the additional spacers on the top cap. I cut the steerer tube just within 5mm without using any spacers
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Dark17, perhaps not your issue, but I learnt late when setting a bike, about a year ago, up for the first time, that its the stem bolts that you last tighten. Made the mistake of tightening the top cap last. Look at: "https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZK5u5ioZU8M?si=mOg8I-zEDbrqhMMK"
For bottom bracket I am using BB86-92 - DUB interlock Press Fit Bottom Brackets from a company called Gineyea. Do not wish to be pressing in bottom bracket, hence i like their solution where you screw it in. My crankset is dub based, with a spider based power meter, and though I have heard of potential issues with low BB bearing life (converting from bb86 to dub), figure its worth a try for 25 usd. Pat. Leno from what I recall prefers the more expensive BBinfinite solution. One thing for sure, with the Gineyea BB, atleast at this point, the cranks spin like ads I have seen from BBinfimite
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Yeah I also learned that since I built my own bike. I know some basic maintenance since I just wanted to maintain my bike myself as some of the LBS mechanics doesn't know what they do lol. But it was the first time I am dealing with compression plugs as I always dealt with star nut.
For the bottom bracket, I also wanted to try the dub version but even Hambini doesn't recommend 29mm bb86 so i'll just stick with 24mm spindle cranks for longetivity of the BB bearings.
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Some points to consider...
-My Winspace T1500 (BB86) is currently using a Kogel Bearings DUB ceramic bottom bracket. Over 4300 miles and still problem free. Still spins freely with no creaking.
-My VeloBuild CX frame (BB86) also with a SRAM DUB bottom bracket. Problem free. Although the cheap SRAM branded DUB BBs are known to be crappy.
-My Yishun R086-D frame (BB86) with a CYBREI DUB ceramic bottom bracket from Panda Podium. 1000 miles and no issues. I don't expect problems to arise.
In principle what Hambini says is correct. However in my real world usage I have never had a problem running DUB BBs with BB86 shells. And the best spider-based power meters come from SRAM/Quarg which use the DUB standard. So I refuse to compromise my power meters or be limited to Shimano cranks based the potential for BB failure. That just hasn't happened to me. Keep in mind Hambini and I are buddies in the same YouTube space. Quality BBs should run just fine for thousands of miles.
Now about the headset play issue. In addition to using a micro shim, I also filed/sanded down the bottom of the plastic headset cover. The part that's rubbing on the headtube. Only took about 10 minutes os sanding. I just assumed it was an isolated issue with my particular frame. No more headset play. The time it would have taken me to email my problem to Yishun and wait for an official answer, I figured it out on my own. Honestly I've never contacted any of these brands with my issues. It's more fun to troubleshoot myself and it adds to my bike building experience. It's a cheap frame after all.
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For the bottom bracket, I also wanted to try the dub version but even Hambini doesn't recommend 29mm bb86 so i'll just stick with 24mm spindle cranks for longetivity of the BB bearings.
Correcto. Stick to 24mm with bb86.
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I successfully sanded the headset cover after countless of hours and it's now smoothly steering whilst having no headset play. Will try the bike later again and for sure I will see a lot of difference and will report it back. I am planning to have a 50km ride later with approximately 1000 meter of elevation + little bit of laps on my local circuit.
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Just an update on the ride experience that I had earlier. Please note that the only point of reference that I can provide is my previous bike which is a Merida Scultura
Well my experience on everything has been an improvement so far. From cornering, climbing, going fast, sprinting and descending. The bike can do it all. The most surprising improvement I got from my previous bike is cornering on descents and tight turns. I dunno maybe because I came from rim brake but I can comfortably corner that hairpins unlike before. With control and just a little bit of braking power. For descending, the bike can go really fast after a few seconds that I kept asking to myself "wtf am I descending like a madman?". I think that this bike excels on flats, well after all this is an aero bike, but I think it excels more on false flats because I nearly beat my PR on our local circuit with a false flat section.
As for the cons, I think Patrick is right that this bike is suppose to be ridden fast. I dunno but for me, I am not comfortable riding this bike with little power output. I need to go to the reach of my handlebars just to eliminate the discomfort of riding this bike slow. And this bike is hard to handle on really steep climbs (18% - 22%). You need to either ride holding the reach the handlebar, put your ass in front of saddle or just stand all the way. These 2 are the only things I know that my previous bike is handles pretty well, tho I think I just need to familiarize my body on the new bike and I can turn this cons into pros in the future.
Overall, this bike is really fast and overall improvement from my previous bike. Build quality is superb (minus the headset cover but I guess it's a part of experience). Everything went smoothly minus my fck ups on the choice of bottom bracket. I would still buy mainstream brands in the future but I think this will be my bike for years to come.
PS: I would never go back to mechanical shifting again lol. I think my next investment on my bike would be a Di2 or an eTAP
Parts of my bike:
Groupset: LTwoo ER9
Wheelset: Yishun's 206db-RSL50c (21mm IW; 28mm EW; 50mm depth) with Ultegra Rotors
Crankset: Shimano 105 7100 52/36 Stone Chainrings
Cassette: Shimano Ultegra 34-11 (really thankful that I went for 34 because I don't think I would survive that steep climb on my route)
Chain: Silver KMC 12 Speed
Bartape: Prologo
Saddle: SQLab 612 Ergowave Active (GOAT saddle for me)
Pedals: Favero Assioma Duo (Pedal based PM)
Tires: GP5000 front and rear from my old bike lol
Building a bike from scratch is a pleasurable experience after all and I would do it again in the future.
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I emailed Melinda and asked for Torque specifications of the frame. Will post here as soon as i get a response. I am also in the middle of building the frame as I already have my wheelset which is Yishun's 206db-RSL50c
Something new? I need the torque of the seatpost
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Something new? I need the torque of the seatpost
Completely forgot about this one I'm sorry. Here's a response from Melinda
Hello friend,
Normally the torque on the frames as below:
M5: 6-8N
M6: 8-10N
M8: 10-12N
Stem/handlebar clamp and front derailleur, brake screw: 6-8N max.
Best regards,
Melinda
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I think Yishun updated R086-D's geometry. I dunno but i believe it got even crazier than before.
Size 540's stack-reach ratio is now a whooping 1.31? WTF is Yishunbike thinking and what is this bike for? I hope it's just a mistake on their end.
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@Dark17: Think you should ask them (will do same). On a recent group ride, someone was interested in my frameset. I had to caution them that when making a selection don't just go with regular sizing. Pointed out to them that my size 50 matches a 54 in Specialized SL7 geometry (based on the prior size chart). They then looked at the size of my frame and and was astounded on how it could be a size 50. If the current chart is correct they will need to offer longer seat-posts (350 is too small considering their minimum claimed insertion of 115)
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The geometry in terms of reach, stack, and saddle position are pretty close to my custom bike. If you want to, this geometry can allow you to rotate forward into a low and long position which is ideal for experimenting with narrow bars without resorting to a really long stem. The effect is that you can get in that really fast, aero position while maintaining a decent weight balance. With that in mind the size 50 with a -6 100mm stem is more like a 52 Tarmac with the -12 110mm stem.
Within reason you need a also need ~1cm in additional reach for every 2cm narrower you go to counteract the effects of your shoulder rotating and help you keep your arms tucked in. If you feel too stretched out a narrower bar is also an option to reduce the effective reach.
The geometry of this bike is pretty great. I would personally design it with a 5mm lower BB and a 47mm fork rake for the size 54 and below and push Enve Aero bar type dimensions for each size.
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I think Yishun updated R086-D's geometry. I dunno but i believe it got even crazier than before.
Size 540's stack-reach ratio is now a whooping 1.31? WTF is Yishunbike thinking and what is this bike for? I hope it's just a mistake on their end.
For people with really long arms, long torso and short legs. Bit of a weird one, that's for sure.
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For people with really long arms, long torso and short legs. Bit of a weird one, that's for sure.
This is largely inaccurate. This bike with the included components is inline with the old Trek H1 geometry and the last couple generations of the Tarmac with the components typically found on pro bikes. Remember that these are designed to also use the substantial spacers for cable routing that the bike comes with. I am guessing this adds 12mm to 15mm of stack vs. a traditional design and reduce the reach by 5mm or so.
If you want a Remco like position on the bike and want to use an integrated bar stem, this will probably get you closer than any open mold I have seen.
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This is largely inaccurate. This bike with the included components is inline with the old Trek H1 geometry and the last couple generations of the Tarmac with the components typically found on pro bikes. Remember that these are designed to also use the substantial spacers for cable routing that the bike comes with. I am guessing this adds 12mm to 15mm of stack vs. a traditional design and reduce the reach by 5mm or so.
If you want a Remco like position on the bike and want to use an integrated bar stem, this will probably get you closer than any open mold I have seen.
+1
People seem to forget that the stack figure usually doesn't include the obligatory spacers that you need to run in order to even build the bike up. In the days of aluminium stems it was possible to run 5mm top caps or even less (with the Cane Creek slam set for instance). I'm running a setup like this on my steel gravel bike. With this bike you need to account for 1.5 - 2cm of additional stack. At least. In fact, I asked Yishun about this and posted the measurements a few pages back.
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This is largely inaccurate.
Incorrect. But that's okay, you are entitled to be incorrect.
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My Yishun R086-D review is live
YouTube Title: Yishun R086D Review - Budget Perfection
https://youtu.be/ETB3Do3mSDI
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Just watched your video, new subscriber, not really a road guy but still like your reviews. fair play to you for calling them out on the pricing issue!
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My Yishun R086-D review is live
YouTube Title: Yishun R086D Review - Budget Perfection
https://youtu.be/ETB3Do3mSDI
disappointed by the lack of any obscene jokes in this one
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Does anyone know where these plastic caps go?
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Hi A and B go over your cables and hoses, to help to keep water out the frame. C is to cover/cap an unused hole
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I’m assuming plug A goes into the front/real derailleur holes? (I’m wireless)
Any idea what the hole at the base of the seat tube is for? I’ve never seen that before.
I still don’t know what to do with B and C :-\
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I’m assuming plug A goes into the front/real derailleur holes? (I’m wireless)
Any idea what the hole at the base of the seat tube is for? I’ve never seen that before.
I still don’t know what to do with B and C :-\
The hole on the seat tube is for the Di2 cable.
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Yes as Joegal said its for the Di2 cable (also Ltwoo electronic group-set). You would use if if you did not have a one by set-up to control the front derailleur
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Anyone tried this frameset with a carbon spoke wheelset with a rim depth of 45mm or less. What's the ride feel like, especially bad payment? Considering getting probably a 40mm depth carbon spoke wheelset for this frame
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Anyone tried this frameset with a carbon spoke wheelset with a rim depth of 45mm or less. What's the ride feel like, especially bad payment? Considering getting probably a 40mm depth carbon spoke wheelset for this frame
Finished my build today w/ Elite Drive 50D wheels. Taking her out for a spin tomorrow. Roads can be rough here in Dallas TX, I'll report back w/ impressions and hopefully some footage.
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@CJ any update?
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@CJ any update?
Sorry! Been having way too much fun on this bike to post but alas...today the fun ended (https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,4666.0.html), at least temporarily.
I'll post my impressions shortly...
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After 11 rides logging 650mi/1050km with 36 hours in the saddle...I can confidently and enthusiastically say THIS FRAME RIPS!
Rider Stats
Height: 175cm
Weight: 70kg
Inseam: 80cm
Saddle Height: 69cm
Bike Build
Frame: Yishun R086D 50cm (I normally ride a 54cm)
Cockpit: Yishun HB058 40cm Handlebars / ST062 130mm Stem (no spacers)
Components: SRAM Force AXS Hydraulic 48 x 10/28
Wheels: Elitewheels Drive 50D
Tires: Panaracer Agilest TLR 30mm with Muc-off sealant
Total Weight w/ Pedals: 7.7kg / 17lbs
Why the R086D?
As a road/crit/gravel racer, CdA is very important to me. The vast majority of drag comes from our own body and let's be honest, modern road bikes have long since reached peak efficiency. My parameters in order of importance: (1) geometry, (2) fit and finish, (3) looks, and (4) affordability/sustainability.
(1), (4), and mostly (3) are knowable prior to purchase. A quick note on (4), I race a lot of crits so spending top $$$$ on a brand name is a value proposition my psyche couldn't handle. As mentioned, modern layups have come a long way. We're in an era of diminishing returns.
When it comes to speed, an aero optimized position is the 2nd-most important facet and the R086's geometry is exactly what I was looking for (https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/yishun-r086-d-2023/). Many feel it's too aggressive and that may be true for the majority of riders but there are many that *do desire* to perform well on fast group rides or sportives. Marc Graveline, inventor/founder of one of worlds first aerometers cited an average 22 watt savings to an aero-optimized rider. The speed is there if you want it.
I logged rides of 4:28 (https://www.strava.com/activities/10421355987), 3:04 (https://www.strava.com/activities/10436135908), 6:06 (https://www.strava.com/activities/10453193659), 3:19 (https://www.strava.com/activities/10465026426), 8:24 (https://www.strava.com/activities/10476689614), and 4:09 (https://www.strava.com/activities/10513998738) hours over rough desert roads in New Mexico, USA and despite having back issues from a crash in October the R086D came through with flying colors in terms of comfort. I also did a 1:38 smashfest (https://www.strava.com/activities/10496202102) in a 3-man breakaway with most the time in the drops with no pain or discomfort (other than lactate).
Some footage to get a sense of geometry...
Hoods:
(https://i.ibb.co/Yd4t3LX/mqVNZPzl.jpg)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/SJ4TxFt0gPvq7E6quj/giphy.gif)
Drops:
(https://i.ibb.co/N9RgWYf/lzNUTCsl.jpg)
(https://media.giphy.com/media/oZ1tE1ELBCQpaQaX7C/giphy.gif)
I love its looks, the black matte finish is both fantastic and resilient. It's been suggested as an analog to the Canyon Aeroad but I think it also bears resemblance to a Pinarello. I was convinced someone else on this past Sunday's group ride had a Yishun and it was only after a meet-n-greet at a rest step did I determine it was actually a Pinarello (F or Dogma, not sure)...same matte finish (w/ black lettering), same speed-sniffer and flare at the top of the downtube.
Referring back to my parameters, we're left with - and let's face it, the elephant in the room when you're dealing with brands based in Xiamen (2) fit and finish. I'm happy to report the unit I received was flawless (wish I could say the same for the wheels (https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,4666.0.html)). Caveats below notwithstanding, this bike was a pleasure to build. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised to find a friction-free headset cap without the need of a 0.25mm micro-shim that several had suggested in this thread.
Things to know:
1) Torque guess is as good as mine...
Don't bother looking for instructions in the box because there aren't any. As other's have noted, only a few items have torque specs stamped on them but Dark17 was kind enough to reach out to Elitewheels to get some general guidelines (https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,4338.msg52072.html#msg52072). From there, it's a bit of trial and error. I initially set the seat post bolt to 9Nm only to have it slide but 11Nm did the trick. Similar issue with the handlebar clamp bolts.
And while I went ahead and stuck caps (A) into the rear/front derailleur and Di2 holes, I still have no idea what B and C were intended for.
(https://i.ibb.co/6gxq0F6/0TN5c6Ql.jpg)
2) Go Long!
The rear disc brake flat mount requires not 27mm...not 32mm...but 37mm bolts. I had to order a set and wait a few days.
3) Keep your head(set) straight
I had forgotten to apply carbon paste to the steerer tube so the headset/cable routing cap started skewing left. While away from home for 2 weeks, I stuck in a rubber gasket for the time being and that did the trick until I could get home and apply the proper fix. WARNING: Avoid the urge to over-torque if this happens to you. Apply paste, tighten the compression plug to around 6Nm, remove slack then tighten the clamp bolts to 6Nm and you should be fine.
(https://i.ibb.co/RHYnPtm/CVvjAGdl.jpg)
4) Braze On, Braze Off
I made the silly mistake of assuming the braze on bolts were properly torqued from the factory and spent a good hour trying to figure out why my chain kept dropping.
Thank you to the many in this forum who bring awareness to the largely under-appreciated products that come out of the Red Dragon. Special shoutout to Patty (https://www.youtube.com/@PatrickLino) who produces wonderful content and helps us all make informed decisions!
Edit 1/10/24 - Rehosted some images
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Sweet! But...Tried to buy one yesterday. 48cm and 50cm both out of stock. MOQ is 30 sets, so they couldn't give me a timeline. They were also out of the handlebar I wanted for the build (380x90 but have 380x100 and 400x90). And now, because of your post, I'm even more depressed :'(
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I don't understand Yishun's logic here...
I bought a frameset with my own money at what I thought was their standard price. It was only after my initial unboxing video that Yishun emailed me saying they knew who I was and gave me a marginal discount. Granted without informing any of this to me prior to purchase. Why would they send me a discounted frame and a set of wheels to test/review if they weren't looking for promotion or increased B2C business? Maybe their contracted partners got upset?
They lurk these forums too. I know because they told me they do LoL. A part of me wants to leverage my experience to obtain an LCR017-D frameset, but Yishun was very adamant on making sure I understood Yishun and Light Carbon are two completely different companies (despite the same factory address.)
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Sweet! But...Tried to buy one yesterday. 48cm and 50cm both out of stock. MOQ is 30 sets, so they couldn't give me a timeline. They were also out of the handlebar I wanted for the build (380x90 but have 380x100 and 400x90). And now, because of your post, I'm even more depressed :'(
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/eH2uOQEmvcqcqgPoH3/giphy.gif?cid=2154d3d7uix1gc15ku6es3o7dqr8soa0na1i3oz7u0w3e1od&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Dude that sucks. Please keep us informed. I had plans to buy a backup.
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I don't understand Yishun's logic here...
You probably gave them all the B2C they could handle LOL
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Sweet! But...Tried to buy one yesterday. 48cm and 50cm both out of stock. MOQ is 30 sets, so they couldn't give me a timeline. They were also out of the handlebar I wanted for the build (380x90 but have 380x100 and 400x90). And now, because of your post, I'm even more depressed :'(
Maybe consider their other frames? I wouldn't order this frame unless you're absolutely sure the long reach is what you need (meaning: get a bike fit first). I built one up for a friend, and while it's a great frame, there is no way it can fit my body. There is no such thing as a geometry that fits all riders, so measure twice, or you'll have to buy twice :D
Regarding the MOQ: I don't think there's a MOQ for this frame (I bought a single frameset), but they probably mean they can't spin up a production run just for a single frame, so you're waiting for one of their OEM clients to order a new batch of frames first.
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By the way, @patliean1, it seems they've updated the geometry--stats on the website now are different from what you show in your video. I think (just eyeballing it) that maybe they've adjusted the water bottle cage bolts too.
Maybe consider their other frames?
I'm considering their R1058, but I can't find any reviews of the ride. Also, it's the same price as the R086 (750 USD), and I can get a painted frame with decent reviews from another supplier in the 500 dollar range...
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By the way, @patliean1, it seems they've updated the geometry--stats on the website now are different from what you show in your video. I think (just eyeballing it) that maybe they've adjusted the water bottle cage bolts too.
I'm considering their R1058, but I can't find any reviews of the ride. Also, it's the same price as the R086 (750 USD), and I can get a painted frame with decent reviews from another supplier in the 500 dollar range...
A few of their geometries have been updated recently.
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Been using the R086-D as my official wheel testing frame. Didn't expect to enjoy those Elite Velo Six wheels as much as I do.
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Anyone else having issues with slipping seatpost? I already torqued them to 10NM with carbon paste and it's still slipping mid ride. :(
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Anyone else having issues with slipping seatpost? I already torqued them to 10NM with carbon paste and it's still slipping mid ride. :(
I had the same issue. 9Nm didn't work, 11Nm did the trick (I'm 70kg)
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I had the same issue. 9Nm didn't work, 11Nm did the trick (I'm 70kg)
I feel 11Nm is too tight already but I'll try.
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would suggest you try thread locker on the bolts 'and see if 10 nm works
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would suggest you try thread locker on the bolts 'and see if 10 nm works
I just tried this. Applied threadlocker on the expander bolts on seat post, torqued to 10nm, did a 60km ride and no slipping issues so far for the whole ride. I tried 11nm (with no threadlocker) but issue returned after an hour of riding.
So therefore, slipping seatpost was caused by the bolt loosening maybe due to vibration. I checked them after every ride (before I applied threadlocker) and it was really loose (Had to torque them back to 10nm each ride).
BTW I used loctite 243 medium strength.
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I just tried this. Applied threadlocker on the expander bolts on seat post, torqued to 10nm, did a 60km ride and no slipping issues so far for the whole ride. I tried 11nm (with no threadlocker) but issue returned after an hour of riding.
So therefore, slipping seatpost was caused by the bolt loosening maybe due to vibration. I checked them after every ride (before I applied threadlocker) and it was really loose (Had to torque them back to 10nm each ride).
BTW I used loctite 243 medium strength.
I have the same problem on multiple bikes with a custom clamp system. Seat post bolt gets loose. So now I always apply some threadlocker.
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Any word on tire clearance? Officially 30c, looks like there's not much extra space there with Pat's 30ish mil 28s.
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32c GP5000 on 23mm internal wheels fit. But only on dry roads I would say.
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Much appreciated