Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: dcriffraff on December 21, 2018, 02:34:52 PM
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I built a Pro-mance M7007II 29, 100mm xc full suspendsion. Thanks to the member sissypants for motivating me by his build and posts. Used xx1 cranks, M9100 series drive train, fox suspension, Light bicycle rims, DT240s, and other misc unbranded parts. The bike with pedals and water bottle cage came in at 9000g (19.84). Build details including parts/weights, links to vendors, frame analysis, some costs, and weight reduction information are detailed here: https://dcriffraff.wordpress.com/ (https://dcriffraff.wordpress.com/)
The Pro-mance M7007 II frame has similar geometry to a 2018 Scott Spark RC 900 World Cup bike. It*can be ordered in a standard or light weight version. The M7007-II (boost) frame ordered was size 17.5", light weight (T700/T800),* UD(unidirectional as opposed to weave), matte finish, and 165/38 shock (can choose this or 190/45). This frame supports up to 2.3 tires and built for the BB92 bottom bracket.
I was told that this frame is being OEM'ed in Europe (found online at least two OEM's with the exact look and geometry) and raced at the World Cup level. I am not saying that this is a Pro-mance frame, but take a look at Megamo and the U23 World Cup rider Jofre Cullell bikes.
The frame was purchased directly from Pro-mance (btw, I am not a fan of the company's name, think Bro).* They were very responsive to questions and the way they conduct business was exemplary.* The frame was not in stock and made upon order. I got a email that the frame was completed 15 days after ordering. It was delivered to my door 14 days after that. Total time from order to receipt was 29 days. * Link to vendor: Hot ! XC suspension frame (M7007-II, 36T) Definitely two thumbs up to Steven Lan at Pro-mance.
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Very good build details on your page nicely done thanks.
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Nice build! Very helpful as I placed my order with the help of sissypants earlier this month and I'm gathering the build this week
Any reason for not running tubeless? Not an option where I ride, but if I did run tubes then I would highly recommend ordering some Tubolitos (https://www.tubolito.com/en/product/s-tubo-mtb/) and you would knock off a significant amount of weight where it matters worst.
Any issues with pedal kickback? I've heard that the high anti squat characteristics of the suspension design could cause issues with a smaller front ring. I'd also like to run a 30T up front on mine.
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Still early in the development cycle for this bike. I rode mt. tam (2572') today (fire trail up, then down). Did not ride anything too steep, but did not have any bob. In any case, shock adjustment can alter this behavior. Reducing sag, volume spacers, and compression damping all effect this. I set the rear up very firm (6mm sag on shock). based on Fox's recommended settings.
I have not converted to tubeless because I can run the tire pressures I want without pinch flats. I am not sure that converting to tubeless would save weight. I run a conti race king racesport tires. They are light, have very thin sidewalls and are not recommended for tubeless. There is a 75g difference between the racesport and protection (tubeless ready) model. The tube I use is 126g. The weight difference before sealant would be 126 -75 - 7(weight of tubeless valve stem)= 44g. I think you would use more than 44g of sealant. However, if you could get the racesport tire to seal, then you would save some weight.
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Thanks for the link to the light tube. Looks interesting. Will do some research into the durability of them.
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I got a chance to take it out for a few rides on varied terrain that included climbing and descending a 2412' fire road, high and low speed single track, and mild to very steep climbs. This is my early ride report.
I want to give some background on me as a rider. I used to road race motorcycles (and still ride motocross). There is so much chatter about riding techniques and bike setup that it makes you dizzy. I definitely weigh an opinion higher if the rider finished in front of me. With that said, I am not a bicycle racer. I ride often and consider myself a very good descender. I am a motivated rider but suffer with a high heart rate and low power...
The bike is efficient with no sign of pedal bob. Handles and climbs well. On the trails I rode, I did not have any problems with the low 12.6" bottom bracket height (same as Spark). I usually ride a 22lb FS 26" (geometry similar to a 2012 Scott Spark) bike and was apprehensive about the agility of this bike due to it's larger wheel size. I did have to compensate a little to get the bike to turn by putting a little more weight on the front and using more handlebar pressure (than on the 26). I am surprised that the maneuverability difference between the bikes is so small. This has probably been said a billion times, but the 29 wheels roll better and keep momentum better. It seems that you don't lose as much speed (and need less effort) on the upward slope of undulating terrain than on the 26. It is a fast bike.
The bike has a SRAM XX1 Eagle crank/chainring, Shimano M9100 chain, M9100 SGS (long cage) derailleur and M9100 shifter. This combination works great and shifts flawlessly. You can up shift up to three gears at a time. Down shifting is one gear at a time. I used a 30T front 10/51T cassette. The low gear 30/51 combination on the 29 is roughly the same as 22/34 on the 26. The M9100 chain uses a master link that requires a master link tool for installation and removal. Gone are the days of tool-less master links.
I like to set my bike up firm/light rebound so the suspension does not sack down on high speed bumps. The shock is Fox Factory Float set up with 6mm of sag and run in the mid compression setting. The fork is Fox 32 Factory Step Cast set up with 9mm of sag and 10 clicks rebound. The fork settings are still a work in progress. The medium compression lever setting is very stiff for small to medium bumps, but good for drop offs. Open mode with almost no compression 18 clicks (22 none, 0 stiffest) is good for small/medium bumps but compresses too much for drop offs. I say this with great conviction after going over a drop off , compressing the fork too much, and endoing it. Next time I am going to try Open mode with higher compression settings.
I really like this bike for cross country riding. It is light, efficient, and turns well. There is nothing negative that stands out to me. After all, this frame is OEM'ed by a few companies that have hopefully done more testing than myself. Also the frame was raced at and made the podium at the U23 World Cup level. Now that is something I would pay attention to.
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Any reason you mounted the rear shock right side up? Doing hongfu 258 build. Wondering which way I should mount the shock.
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This is cut from my blog regarding the build that has some information about the shock mounting:
Forks are Fox Factory 32 Step Cast 100mm. I personally don’t use remote lock-outs (set my bikes up firm and don’t stand while climbing) so the fork/shock are manual. Fork weight 1380 grams with uncut steerer and Fox Kabolt front axle. Unlike the Spark, the shock is not trunion mount. Since I am using a manual shock, it can be mounted upside down or right side up. If using a remote shock, the cable port is by the bottom bracket so you would mount the shock upside down. Mounting upside down would yield less unsprung weight (and it looks good). However, mounting it upside down causes the oil in the air chamber to come out of the air valve when changing the shock’s air pressure. Decided to remount upright to prevent this and keep some oil in the air chamber.
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I just thought about how lame I am regarding the shock mounting. I can mount it upside down. I can flip the bike upside down when I need to modify the air pressure. Thanks for pinging me on this subject.
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I've been hearing about this frame. I have a question. Can you measure in mm across the inner seat and chainstays? I run Schwalbe Knobby Nicks 2.35s and wondering if the .5 in tire width will be a deal breaker. Since carcass shape and knob placement effects overall width, I am curios to know what that measured width actually is.
For instance, my nics on a 30mm wide rim measure at 59mm which equates to about 2.32 inches. I'm really curious about this....
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Here are some shots of the tire clearance. Took some shots with tire on to give some reference. Tire is Continental RaceKing Racesport 29x2.2.
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continued due to file size limitation on posts.
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Just an update on my build. The Shimano M9100 Quick Link master link is .00025 too narrow for the Eagle XX1 wide/narrow chainring. The combination worked fine, but will wear the sides of the wide chainring teeth prematurely. Fortunately, the SRAM Eagle Power Lock 12 speed link works fine with the M9100 chain. This link has enough clearance. You may run into this problem with other brands of wide/narrow chainrings.
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Cool build dcriffraff!!
It's nice-looking and very lightweight indeed! I'm humbled that my bike was an inspiration to so many riders.
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Hi sissypants, thanks for your posts that contain so much great information. It is a great time to build your own bike with the exact components you want. Adding links to unbranded (at least in the US) components that you used, weighed and reviewed is extremely valuable. I followed your model in my build blog.
Information about frames/components is sometimes obfuscated by external forces. Things like advertising income, manufacture's marketing... impact the information that is distributed. Shimano does not want you to use non Shimano chainrings, cranks, chains... with their derailleur/cassettes/shifters so they say that you cannot do it or if you do, will suffer performance penalties. They even designed the master link to not work with existing SRAM compatible chainrings (why else would you design a chain to have one link that is narrower than all other links on a chain? BTW M9100 chain works well with SRAM link on SRAM wide/narrow chainring).
Information gathered on these types of forums should be taken with a grain of salt. There may be external forces or simple lack of expertise that may cause inaccurate information to be distributed. It is great when there are people like you who add information that is accurate and well thought out. Keep up the great work!
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Hey thanks for the kind words! I have at least three more bike reviews and a number of full-blown component reviews coming this spring and summer so stay tuned.
It's unfortunate that while brands can afford to sponsor athletes and product reviews, factories can only hope to get the word out through their customers due to their low profit margins. Even in return for excellent publicity they can't offer much because their profit margins are so low. I've adopted a buy-low sell-high model for doing these reviews, it's not lucrative and it's time consuming, but it's fun. A great hobby!
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If you wonder how the M7007 is as an xc race bike. Jofre Cullell Estape just finished second at the Vallnord World Cup race in U23. Sure the bike he rode is a Megamo Track, but I am convinced it is a rebranded M7007 frame. I don't have reliable information regarding this, but the frames are identical (geometry, and physical structure). I was told that the M7007 is OEM'ed in Europe. Also, this frame cannot be sold in certain European countries indicating some sort of agreement between a reseller and Pro-mance.
I am now a fan that is rooting for Jofre. After all we ride on the same frame (albeit I suffer from high heart rate and low power, he is the converse).
Photo from Vallnord and on top step of podium HC race at Haiming.
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Have you ever had a close look at Gerhard Kerschbaumer's bike? Looks just like a hongfu 258, which, except for the toptube-seat tube junction, is the same as Hong Fu 058 (the pro-mance 7007 twin, if not the same manufacturer).
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I took a look at some photos and geo between the torpado matador and the hongfu fm 258. They do look to be the same. Thanks for the info.
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Is there any way to get a lock-out cable for the rear shock to work on this frame? I have not seen any images of that. I have the exact same shock as the picture above and this is the only thing that holding me back right now.
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Yes, Kerschbaumer's bike is a Hongfu 258 with some paint.
After some research, I pretty much built up a top-end version of his bike after seeing some pics of the Torpado Matador. Think it's 9.4kg.
And, yes, you can indeed mount the shock upside down like on his bike. It took me a while to realise that mind you!
Did half a season on it in Irish xc national races and got on pretty well. First time racing a full suss in years of racing.
Still needs some tweaks though, the saddle feels WAY far back when pedaling due to the strange seat tube angle. Thoughts on this??? Also, I changed the stem to a 80mm with a normal angle. The other yoke in the pic was tricky to control with the downward angle.
Excuse the crappy quality pics :D
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...Still needs some tweaks though, the saddle feels WAY far back when pedaling due to the strange seat tube angle. Thoughts on this??? Also, I changed the stem to a 80mm with a normal angle...
Having the saddle more forward will require some ingenious tweaking :D
Have you some ideas already ?
...you can indeed mount the shock upside down like on his bike. It took me a while to realise that mind you!...
Why mount the shock upside down ?
Isn't it better the other way, to let gravity take the dirt down and out ?
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Hello guys. The m7007II frame is exactly the same as the Megamo Track that races in the World cup series. I have the track 07 the budget version of the track used by the athletes of Megamo Factory team. Very capable and fast bike on any terrain. As it is my first F/S bike i found it difficult to set the fork and shock in the right pressures. But when its done its no problem, set and forget. About the geometry its fine and quite similar with the spark. But I have to put a longer 100mm stem over 90mm tha I use now and maybe a seatpost with a little backsweep. I am 1,82cm and I ride medium size 17,5.
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Very nice, but let me ask you why are you riding a medium frame being 182cm tall? No wonder you are using a 100mm stem ???
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Nice question in fact I'm 1,79-1,80. So I chose medium because Megamo suggests this size of frame from 1,65 to 1,80. And I tend to ride not so big frames and also many suggest to go one size down for racing. In road for example I ride 56. But I do road only as training. I've already put a 100 mm stem but with no significant drop (its -6°) and i feel fine. I dont have test the behaviour with the longer stem on the steep trails yet, because of the corona.