Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: patliean1 on June 06, 2022, 04:13:16 PM
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Howdy lovely people,
These just arrived from China (technically BC, Canada): Magene EXAR DB58Pro Disc
Depth: 58mm
External: 27mm (advertised)
Internal: 20mm (advertised)
Straight pull spokes. Not sure yet if they're carbon or CX Ray
Tubeless Rim Tape Installed By Factory
So Magene contacted me via IG to review these wheels. Honestly at first I thought it was a total scam because the IG account they contacted me from had literally zero followers and not a single IG post. But two weeks later here we are.
There doesn't seem to be much (easily) accessible info on these line of wheels, and I'm still waiting for Magene to provide their official press release details including advertised weight and retail price. Once I hear back I can then begin providing further details in this thread. Stay Tuned!
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The spokes are Pillar Wing
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1540g according to Magene. Not that light, but may be good for heavier riders with what look like some pretty high DS flanges on the rear hub, plus Magene are usually 'cheap' in other segments.
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1540g according to Magene. Not that light, but may be good for heavier riders with what look like some pretty high DS flanges on the rear hub, plus Magene are usually 'cheap' in other segments.
Where did you find this info? I can't even find the wheels on their official website, unless I'm stupid.
I sent them an email with a list of questions about the wheels. Their response? "We are translating your email and will get back to you." Nothing wrong with being honest and needing time to answer properly.
Assuming they're looking to expand to the western customers, they probably will need to ramp up on the back end. I know they're already established with smart trainers and other bike components.
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1490g for the 2022 model (https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzIzMTE2MjU2MA==&mid=2247498322&idx=1&sn=f5055a6d66bb98c2061b8a493978d4da&chksm=e8aaedfddfdd64eb378794d6baca74c7f75603566c2add0d7f46ffda190edb20e762a406fd38&scene=21) (yours), 1540g for the 2021 model (https://www.wildto.com/news/52698.html)
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1490g for the 2022 model (https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s?__biz=MzIzMTE2MjU2MA==&mid=2247498322&idx=1&sn=f5055a6d66bb98c2061b8a493978d4da&chksm=e8aaedfddfdd64eb378794d6baca74c7f75603566c2add0d7f46ffda190edb20e762a406fd38&scene=21) (yours), 1540g for the 2021 model (https://www.wildto.com/news/52698.html)
This is why you're one of the greats on this site.
Sidenote: I weighed the wheels last night. They came in at 1553g INCLUDING both rim tape and tubeless valves installed. So probably more like 1520g which is still a bit over the advertised weight.
My Hyper 65 Disc came in with a real world weight of 1615g
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Update #1
I'm still waiting to hear back from Magene with their official press information.
In the meantime...trying to align the brake calipers to my rotors with these new wheels have been a total NIGHTMARE. The flanges on both wheels are like 1-2mm too wide, which subsequently pushes each rotor to the outside brake pad. Even with several different aligning tools and methods they still rub.
Just to be sure, I mounted the same rotors to a different set of wheels and had no issues.
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Update #1
I'm still waiting to hear back from Magene with their official press information.
In the meantime...trying to align the brake calipers to my rotors with these new wheels have been a total NIGHTMARE. The flanges on both wheels are like 1-2mm too wide, which subsequently pushes each rotor to the outside brake pad. Even with several different aligning tools and methods they still rub.
Just to be sure, I mounted the same rotors to a different set of wheels and had no issues.
In the bin they go.
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Update #1
I'm still waiting to hear back from Magene with their official press information.
In the meantime...trying to align the brake calipers to my rotors with these new wheels have been a total NIGHTMARE. The flanges on both wheels are like 1-2mm too wide, which subsequently pushes each rotor to the outside brake pad. Even with several different aligning tools and methods they still rub.
Just to be sure, I mounted the same rotors to a different set of wheels and had no issues.
Well their P325 CS power meter crankset was a bit of a shit show, so it wouldn't be unprecedented.
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Update #2
I was finally able to fix the rubbing on the rear rotor and caliper. Trial and error using the alignment tool and a little bit of truing the rotor. However...the rubbing from the front rotor is still misaligned and super tight beyond tools and truing the rotor.
As an experiment, I decided to mount the wheels to a different frame (Dengfu R12). Originally I was planning to use these Magene wheels on my VeloBuild 177.
Rather than using the brand new rotors I bought for the Magene wheels, I instead used the existing rotors from the wheels off my Dengfu R12 which I know are perfectly aligned within the calipers. Controlled experiment LoL
Identical issue of rubbing with the outer brake pad on the front rotor. Significant in fact. I didn't even bother attempting to align calipers because it's clear there are tolerance issue the front wheel/flange.
So all of this puts me in a weird position with Magene in terms of reviewing the wheels and said agreement. The front wheel is basically useless and the market rep doesn't speak English well enough to understand my dilemma. Stay tuned...
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Not sure what the deal is with Magene. I really want to like the company, but they have a habit of releasing products half-cocked. I think they mean to be a quality player, but so far their execution is lacking. For these reasons, while I am excited for their radar rear light, I have reservations. Potentially only being compatible with their C406Pro would be a deal killer for me
Also, i wonder why the move into wheelsets, as that is not their area of competency. Especially since they could already stand to be more competent in their area of competency. I can't imagine they are manufacturing these wheels themselves. I wonder where they are sourcing parts.
I look forward to your review, and do not envy the position you are in with Magene right now.
For the record, I use their:
P325CS - love it. No issues. I hear the first batch had issues
Onelap App - it is 1/3 the price of Zwift. But only 1/3 as good
C406 - adequate sensors coupled with low-tech LCD display. No 3-second power, which is actually really irritating
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Update #3
After several days of troubleshooting, tinkering, and a trip to my local hardware store (which made me miss the finale of Stage 5 Criterium du Dauphine >:() I finally have the wheels mounted.
Basically, I had to use a small 2mm thick washer between the fork and the wheel, to act as a shim, to prevent the thru-axle from pushing the disc rotor too far outward toward the outer disc pad. Obviously this solution is neither ideal nor acceptable, especially for a paying customer. I'm not exactly sure how to convey this to Magene without this whole ordeal becoming a blame game.
Anyway...I took the wheels out for their maiden voyage yesterday for a quick 25 miles / 40 km. The rear freehubs is extremely quiet and super smooth. I decided to try out a pair of Vittoria Corsa G2.0 tires with Vittoria latex tubes and while the ride "feel" is smoother than butyl tubes, I realize I just don't like the Corsa G2.0 tires in general.
Until I hear back from Magene with the official retail price I will reserve my thoughts on actual wheel performance. Obviously I can't recommend these wheels AT ALL until Magene tells me what the heck is going on.
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They do look sharp though
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Update #4
Magene finally responded my email of questions:
Model: Exar DB58Pro Disc
Retail Price: $881 usd
Advertised Weight: 1490g
Spare spokes provided?: No
Tubeless Rim Tape and Valves Pre-Installed?: Yes
Spoke Type: Pillar Wing 20
Bearings: "High Precision (steel) Bearings
Available in 45mm and 58mm depth
Other tidbits from the email:
"EXAR carbon fiber wheelsets are quality and high-performing products featuring an integral design of appearance, weight, and performance. For disc brake wheels, a non-asymmetric structure is adopted and the flange width is optimized so that the spoke tension on both sides are close to the same.The flange of the disc brake version is wider, and the center of the wheelset is closer to the non-drive side compared to the rim brake one, so with a 2:1 spoke lacing pattern, it doesn't need an asymmetric rim.
Due to the location of the discs, the spokes on the drive side and the non-drive side have different angles. This will make the wheelset less stiff, and also easy to cause the spokes to break. In order to ensure the stiffness of EXAR wheelsets, the disc brake wheelsets are made of non-asymmetric structure and the flange width is optimized so that the spoke tensions on both sides tend to be similar.The rear wheel (dics brake)drive-side flange diameter is increased. It helps to adjust the angle between the drive side spokes and the symmetry center of the wheelset, making the spoke
direction aligned with the torque direction. It also helps to increase driving efficiency, and you will get faster start accordingly."
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Have you had a chance to send them your initial observations yet?
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Strange, I've advised Magene HRM bands, powermeters and home trainers to folks here and all are happy. And their support from Aliexpress messaging, has always been great.
When I swap wheels with different hubs (dt-swiss, carbon-ti, hope, novatec), I generally need to realign callipers.
Are you having them off to the point where you can't even properly align the callipers?
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Have you had a chance to send them your initial observations yet?
That will be the next update LoL. This will be interesting...
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Strange, I've advised Magene HRM bands, powermeters and home trainers to folks here and all are happy. And their support from Aliexpress messaging, has always been great.
When I swap wheels with different hubs (dt-swiss, carbon-ti, hope, novatec), I generally need to realign callipers.
Are you having them off to the point where you can't even properly align the callipers?
Correct.
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Strange, I've advised Magene HRM bands, powermeters and home trainers to folks here and all are happy. And their support from Aliexpress messaging, has always been great.
When I swap wheels with different hubs (dt-swiss, carbon-ti, hope, novatec), I generally need to realign callipers.
Are you having them off to the point where you can't even properly align the callipers?
Have you ever recommended/tried their H603 HRM?
It's been sitting in my AliX basket for a bit. Never get around to buying
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If its anything like the GPS or HR monitor, RUN!
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Strange, I've advised Magene HRM bands, powermeters and home trainers to folks here and all are happy. And their support from Aliexpress messaging, has always been great.
When I swap wheels with different hubs (dt-swiss, carbon-ti, hope, novatec), I generally need to realign callipers.
Are you having them off to the point where you can't even properly align the callipers?
I had ... still have horrific experiences with their products. I really gave their products a good bash, but they didnt even last two weeks, and this was the same for all the replacements I got. Eventally I stopped asking for replacements and moved on.
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Have you ever recommended/tried their H603 HRM?
It's been sitting in my AliX basket for a bit. Never get around to buying
No, but H303 is certainly a hell better than the H64, there were what... 303-64 = 239 versions between them 8)
Even though they claim it now, I never found the H64 to be unstable.
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Update #5
I sent an email to Magene with the photos attached below, including the YouTube video below as well I created to help clearly see the issue. The link is "Unlisted" and not public. If all possible please don't share this link until I hear back from Magene with a solution. I just wanted to show you guys visually.
https://youtu.be/RrW0BHDIF9U
https://youtu.be/RrW0BHDIF9U (https://youtu.be/RrW0BHDIF9U)
Now that I've tried different wheel and disc rotors combinations, I can confirm the rubbing ONLY happens on the Magene wheel. Here are my two theories:
Theory #1 - Either the flanges on both sides of the hub assembly are too wide, which pushes the rotor into the brake pad causing major brake rub.
Theory #2 - Or the overall hub assembly is too short, causing the entire wheel to shift 1 to 2 mm too far into the outside brake pad once the thru-axle is torqued down. This is why I used a shim.
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I'd think a miss alignment in hub. Could be from milling bearing seats on hubs. Maybe axle or caps not tightened correctly. Does thr wheel center to frame evenly? Just curious if wheel is closer to one fork.
Is the hub easily to disassemble? Usually fronts are pretty simple with 2 bearings
Just thinking what I'd look at. May not even be relevant
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Update #6 - GOOD NEWS
After I emailed Magene and sent them the video, they immediately responded not even 5 hours later. Below is their reply from the engineers:
"Because the product was sent to you before the launch, It is an earlier batch. The adaptability of the end caps next to the hubs is not good enough, but this problem has been solved after the product launch. I'll resend you two end caps , replace them and you'll have a good fit"
Awesome that Magene jumped on this issue right away and knew the root cause, as it's obviously in their best interest. I do plan to share my experience in an upcoming video once the new end caps arrive, as transparency is important. And just as important is also highlighting how quickly Magene rectified the problem.
In the meantime I've manage to forge a pretty elegant (but still temporary) wheel spacer solution.
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Update #3
Basically, I had to use a small 2mm thick washer between the fork and the wheel, to act as a shim, to prevent the thru-axle from pushing the disc rotor too far outward toward the outer disc pad. Obviously this solution is neither ideal nor acceptable, especially for a paying customer. I'm not exactly sure how to convey this to Magene without this whole ordeal becoming a blame game.
I had an issue with the front fork on my TanTan that requires a similar solution. When I was going through hell and back dealing with the headset play, it turned out that part of the problem was play in the thru axle in the front fork, regardless of how much I torqued down the thru axle. My lbs tech slipped a washer onto the thru axle on the outside of the fork and that took care of that. It's definitely not a problem with the wheels because the play is there with both my set of Light Bicycle wheels and my set of Scribes. I even tried a DT Swiss front thru axle to see if that helped, but it didn't.
The solution works, and I just chalk it up to the open mold experience since I haven't heard about anybody else with the issue. But yeah, super annoying and I'm happy to see Magene responded.
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I had an issue with the front fork on my TanTan that requires a similar solution. When I was going through hell and back dealing with the headset play, it turned out that part of the problem was play in the thru axle in the front fork, regardless of how much I torqued down the thru axle. My lbs tech slipped a washer onto the thru axle on the outside of the fork and that took care of that. It's definitely not a problem with the wheels because the play is there with both my set of Light Bicycle wheels and my set of Scribes. I even tried a DT Swiss front thru axle to see if that helped, but it didn't.
The solution works, and I just chalk it up to the open mold experience since I haven't heard about anybody else with the issue. But yeah, super annoying and I'm happy to see Magene responded.
Your story, like mine and most folks in this forum, again highlights the extra "sweat effort" required with affordable open mold frames and components. The savings and value cannot be denied once you look past resolving the little quirks.
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Well their P325 CS power meter crankset was a bit of a shit show, so it wouldn't be unprecedented.
I have P35 dual from Magene and is as precise as any other (error from Shimano spider). When they wanted to overcome the Shimano limitation and released their own crankset, it was laterally flexible.
I also own their cadence and speed sensors.
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I have P35 dual from Magene and is as precise as any other (error from Shimano spider). When they wanted to overcome the Shimano limitation and released their own crankset, it was laterally flexible.
I also own their cadence and speed sensors.
This is their area of core competency
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https://magenefitness.com/product_exar.html
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Update #7
In addition to overnighting the new/replacement end caps, Magene is also sending me a copy of their 3D-printed end cap remover tool and a heart rate arm band (assuming HRM80) as a measure of good faith. They also sent me an instructional video on how to properly remove the end caps. They simply pull off rather than needing to be unscrewed.
What does all of this mean?
I think I initially misjudged Magene (as a wheel company). Ever since addressing this end cap issue, Magene has done nothing short of going out their way with every communication. Fast response times, detailed explanations. It's clear their customer service and/or marketing department wants to be taken seriously. KUDOS TO THEM
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My full review is live.
I've really been enjoying these wheels especially with GP5000s and latex tubes. Magene is been very kind to ensure all is well regarding customer service. Of course maybe I'm just getting the Hambini Special :o
YouTube Title: Magene EXAR DB58 Pro Wheelset - Best Wheels Under $1000
https://youtu.be/yEnRYd_EYvw (https://youtu.be/yEnRYd_EYvw)