Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: Jwzard on June 17, 2022, 07:11:45 AM
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I've been lurking around the forum for a while and now I think it's time for me to finally build my budget dream bike.
Focus is aero but try to get sub 8 kg, the components I have in mind are:
Elitewheels Drive 50 wheels
Sram rival etap hydraulic 2x12 groupset (try to switch to second hand red crankset if I can find a good deal, and force cassette)
So to the frame, velobuild seems to have good quality to price ratio. I was set on the 177 but now I saw 218 was released. It's supposedly more aero but also heavier. Please help me decide, or suggest another not so heavy aero frame? It must have integrated cables in the handlebar/stem, for the good looks.
218
Pros: aero, looks (even though it kinda bothers me that it's a copy of dogma f), BSA bb
Cons: weight
177
Pros: weight, not so aero?
Cons: pressfit bb (it's a pita to change and in my experience it's prone to creaks)
Or maybe the 177 is as aero as the 218?
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Unless you put both bikes in a windtunnel, you will never know which one is more aero. Pick the frame you like the most.
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I've had great experience with the BB86 Wheels Manufacturing bottom brackets. I run GXP on all my bikes and once I put one of these in, I have never had an issue.
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I've had great experience with the BB86 Wheels Manufacturing bottom brackets. I run GXP on all my bikes and once I put one of these in, I have never had an issue.
Do they make screw on BB86 to DUB? I've only seen their pressfit versions. Would be awesome if there was a Bb86 to DUB threaded version.
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Do they make screw on BB86 to DUB? I've only seen their pressfit versions. Would be awesome if there was a Bb86 to DUB threaded version.
I run a DUB BB86 press-fit bottom bracket on my Winspace T1500. Sadly I have yet to find a threaded DUB BB86 (for Shimano 24mm spindles) on the market.
Perhaps I've just been lucky but in the 6-7 builds I've done in the past year, I have yet to experience a single creaky bottom bracket. Anecdotal of course. Everything from Kogel, Wheels MFG, Shimano, and SRAM.
Personally speaking...stay far far away from SRAM's cheap $60 plastic DUB bottom brackets
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I've been lurking around the forum for a while and now I think it's time for me to finally build my budget dream bike.
Focus is aero but try to get sub 8 kg, the components I have in mind are:
Elitewheels Drive 50 wheels
Sram rival etap hydraulic 2x12 groupset (try to switch to second hand red crankset if I can find a good deal, and force cassette)
So to the frame, velobuild seems to have good quality to price ratio. I was set on the 177 but now I saw 218 was released. It's supposedly more aero but also heavier. Please help me decide, or suggest another not so heavy aero frame? It must have integrated cables in the handlebar/stem, for the good looks.
218
Pros: aero, looks (even though it kinda bothers me that it's a copy of dogma f), BSA bb
Cons: weight
177
Pros: weight, not so aero?
Cons: pressfit bb (it's a pita to change and in my experience it's prone to creaks)
Or maybe the 177 is as aero as the 218?
Have you considered the 099 with the zero setback seatpost? It's kind of in the middle of both.
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I run a DUB BB86 press-fit bottom bracket on my Winspace T1500. Sadly I have yet to find a threaded DUB BB86 (for Shimano 24mm spindles) on the market.
Perhaps I've just been lucky but in the 6-7 builds I've done in the past year, I have yet to experience a single creaky bottom bracket. Anecdotal of course. Everything from Kogel, Wheels MFG, Shimano, and SRAM.
Personally speaking...stay far far away from SRAM's cheap $60 plastic DUB bottom brackets
Not sure what you mean by a threaded DUB BB86 (for Shimano 24mm spindles). DUB is a 29 mm spindle. You run the Wheels MFG threaded press fit 86 for Shimano spindles, right?
Wheels MFG makes a pf 86 for a DUB in a couple of flavors, but neither has a casing for the spindle. It was fine when I ran it on my TT-X21 because I ran the cable housing all the way through the frame. When I switched over to the Propel, the naked shifter cables started to cut into the spindle no matter how I tried to install the guides. I actually switched over to the cheapie DUB BB and it's been working fine, no creaks, with close to 1000 miles on it now. Definitely had my reservations too, but I'm going to keep rolling with it because I have no desire to spend $$$ on a threaded DUB press fit from Kogel, or whoever makes the high end version.
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Not sure what you mean by a threaded DUB BB86 (for Shimano 24mm spindles). DUB is a 29 mm spindle. You run the Wheels MFG threaded press fit 86 for Shimano spindles, right?
Wheels MFG makes a pf 86 for a DUB in a couple of flavors, but neither has a casing for the spindle. It was fine when I ran it on my TT-X21 because I ran the cable housing all the way through the frame. When I switched over to the Propel, the naked shifter cables started to cut into the spindle no matter how I tried to install the guides. I actually switched over to the cheapie DUB BB and it's been working fine, no creaks, with close to 1000 miles on it now. I have no desire to spend $$$ on a threaded DUB press fit from Kogel, or whoever makes the high end version.
My bad you're right. I was multi-tasking when I typed that last response LoL. DUB is a 29mm spindle.
I just have yet to find a DUB BB86 threaded bottom bracket for sale.
Regardless of threaded or pressfit, my BBs don't creak...
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Lol. Yeah, I thought I had seen one somewhere, a really really expensive one, but I was probably just thinking of the BBinfinite or something like that and was thinking that it was thread together.
Keeping my fingers crossed!
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Not sure what you mean by a threaded DUB BB86 (for Shimano 24mm spindles). DUB is a 29 mm spindle. You run the Wheels MFG threaded press fit 86 for Shimano spindles, right?
Wheels MFG makes a pf 86 for a DUB in a couple of flavors, but neither has a casing for the spindle. It was fine when I ran it on my TT-X21 because I ran the cable housing all the way through the frame. When I switched over to the Propel, the naked shifter cables started to cut into the spindle no matter how I tried to install the guides. I actually switched over to the cheapie DUB BB and it's been working fine, no creaks, with close to 1000 miles on it now. Definitely had my reservations too, but I'm going to keep rolling with it because I have no desire to spend $$$ on a threaded DUB press fit from Kogel, or whoever makes the high end version.
Ye I saw that one from wheelsmfg too but I kinda want the casing. Even though I will run hydraulic and wireless shifting I feels better with a casing.
I wouldn't have any worries using a cheap bb if it was bsa, but I hate changing pf bbs... good to hear the standard working well
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I run a DUB BB86 press-fit bottom bracket on my Winspace T1500. Sadly I have yet to find a threaded DUB BB86 (for Shimano 24mm spindles) on the market.
Perhaps I've just been lucky but in the 6-7 builds I've done in the past year, I have yet to experience a single creaky bottom bracket. Anecdotal of course. Everything from Kogel, Wheels MFG, Shimano, and SRAM.
Personally speaking...stay far far away from SRAM's cheap $60 plastic DUB bottom brackets
How do you mount them? Loctite 641 with that carbon hardener first?
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Have you considered the 099 with the zero setback seatpost? It's kind of in the middle of both.
Will check it out! Thanks
edit: can't find any frame named 99 from Velobuild?
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How do you mount them? Loctite 641 with that carbon hardener first?
A thread together bottom bracket?
Just need grease like any other press fit bottom bracket, and a 48 tooth bottom bracket wrench for the Wheels MFG thread together. Just grease the shell and as usual, then grease the threads on the bottom bracket. I've seen videos where they use a press fit tool to install the non-drive side first, then screw in the drive side using the wrench. Half the point for me when I bought the thread together was not to have to spend $100 on a press fit tool. So, I just pressed the non-drive side in by hand, then threaded the drive side onto the non-drive side by hand. Then I used the wrench to, carefully, press both sides into the shell as the two sides threaded together. Worked fine.
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Will check it out! Thanks
edit: can't find any frame named 99 from Velobuild?
Check here;
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3102.210.html
@RDY just received his 099 from velobuild. I think you can still order it from velobuild by emailing support / Christ.
But if it is strictly 177 vs 218 I'll go for the 177 then have two wheelsets. One set for climbing and one aero set. The 177 however requires some hacks for the seatpost.
Watchout for the proprietary Pinarello components of the 218. The 177 components are more available and easier to get.
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Check here;
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3102.210.html
@RDY just received his 099 from velobuild. I think you can still order it from velobuild by emailing support / Christ.
But if it is strictly 177 vs 218 I'll go for the 177 then have two wheelsets. One set for climbing and one aero set. The 177 however requires some hacks for the seatpost.
Watchout for the proprietary Pinarello components of the 218. The 177 components are more available and easier to get.
Proprietary Pinarello stuff on the 218? Such as?
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If you are going to buy the 099, buy the ltk 268 instead. I think they are the same.
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Check here;
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3102.210.html
@RDY just received his 099 from velobuild. I think you can still order it from velobuild by emailing support / Christ.
But if it is strictly 177 vs 218 I'll go for the 177 then have two wheelsets. One set for climbing and one aero set. The 177 however requires some hacks for the seatpost.
Watchout for the proprietary Pinarello components of the 218. The 177 components are more available and easier to get.
Fwiw my 177 has never had seatpost issues. I know many people have had a slipping seatpost, but to be fair some of us have had stellar experiences with their 177. I’m a fairly heavy guy, I’ve tried different posts and have had no issues with any of them.
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Fwiw my 177 has never had seatpost issues. I know many people have had a slipping seatpost, but to be fair some of us have had stellar experiences with their 177. I’m a fairly heavy guy, I’ve tried different posts and have had no issues with any of them.
Been using my VB-177 since wintertime on the trainer, and now regularly out on the road. Not a single seat post slip to report either.
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Proprietary Pinarello stuff on the 218? Such as?
Basically the spacers-to->handle bar stuffs (i.e. head tube components) looks like Pinarello components (I may be wrong? With time we'll know more when the 218 thread gets longer). If I am not mistaken someone showed the top cap has Pinarello logo on it.
No need to mention the seatpost is proprietary (must sort out the right frame size from the get go with respect to seatpost setback. Not a frame issue but a reference to my beginner mistakes when picking the 099).
Looks like whichever frame you decide to buy I wish you come out on the better side than most of us. Because for most of the popular frames on this forum there are people who were blessed on the front end but had it bad at the back end and vice versa, etc.
However there are hacks or solutions around most of the common issues for new frame owners to easily fix but was a major pain to early adopters.
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A thread together bottom bracket?
Just need grease like any other press fit bottom bracket, and a 48 tooth bottom bracket wrench for the Wheels MFG thread together. Just grease the shell and as usual, then grease the threads on the bottom bracket. I've seen videos where they use a press fit tool to install the non-drive side first, then screw in the drive side using the wrench. Half the point for me when I bought the thread together was not to have to spend $100 on a press fit tool. So, I just pressed the non-drive side in by hand, then threaded the drive side onto the non-drive side by hand. Then I used the wrench to, carefully, press both sides into the shell as the two sides threaded together. Worked fine.
Sorry I think we were talking about pf bbs. Thread bbs should be straight forward but never worked on them :)
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Basically the spacers-to->handle bar stuffs (i.e. head tube components) looks like Pinarello components (I may be wrong? With time we'll know more when the 218 thread gets longer). If I am not mistaken someone showed the top cap has Pinarello logo on it.
No need to mention the seatpost is proprietary (must sort out the right frame size from the get go with respect to seatpost setback. Not a frame issue but a reference to my beginner mistakes when picking the 099).
Looks like whichever frame you decide to buy I wish you come out on the better side than most of us. Because for most of the popular frames on this forum there are people who were blessed on the front end but had it bad at the back end and vice versa, etc.
However there are hacks or solutions around most of the common issues for new frame owners to easily fix but was a major pain to early adopters.
Yes that is also a point to consider, no one knows the flaws of 218 yet... the 177 has its known issues and fixes, that's in favor of it.
I did some "research" on Google and this is what I came up with.
Of course the rider is the majority of the drag (80%?), of the remaining 20%, wheels are 1/2, handlebars 1/4 and frame 1/4.
So really there isn't that much gains to be made on the frame. The frame that puts the rider in the most aero position will be superior.
Just knowing you have a "lightweight" bike might give you the psychological edge?
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Another thing I have noticed with the 177 is that it is not as stable as the 099 at constant 40km/h fast ride days. But it is great for long steady pace rides of 30-35km/h avg speeds.
Just dropping that for your consideration. No doubt the 177 is an all-rounder frame but not towards the hard and fast spectrum.
If you are a fast rider or considering crit racing you should definitely go for the aero frame for more stability at higher speeds and fast cornering.
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Another thing I have noticed with the 177 is that it is not as stable as the 099 at constant 40km/h fast ride days. But it is great for long steady pace rides of 30-35km/h avg speeds.
Just dropping that for your consideration. No doubt the 177 is an all-rounder frame but not towards the hard and fast spectrum.
If you are a fast rider or considering crit racing you should definitely go for the aero frame for more stability at higher speeds and fast cornering.
This is an interesting analysis of the 177 in regards to stability at higher speed. Yesterday I went for a spirited solo ride where a few times I was reaching speeds in excess of 50-51km/h on flat terrain. Probably the first time I really pushed the frame to the upper limits.
Not sure if there's very minor flex in the frame, the headset not being "firm/stable" enough for higher speeds, or just the overall design of the frame, but 177 isn't the most stable frame in my collection. Certainly not sketchy or unsafe but interesting to hear someone else relay similar thoughts. Still a very comfortable ride.
I mentioned this in the Elite Wheels thread, but the 177 would excel in a tight technical crit circuit. For road races and A-category group rides the Winspace T1500, Yoeleo R6/R12, and Dengfu R12 are better choices especially paired with aero wheels.
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I just finished a disc version of the 218. No issues with any finishes or taps or anything. Only 30 miles on it, but no seat post slip noticed yet.
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Congratulations! Looks awesome! :)
You can also add your post to the 218 thread:
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3650.30.html
What is the final on-the-road weight for your build?
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Thanks! - the bathroom scale has it at 8.8kg.
The elitewheels are slt 50mm deep x 29mm wide, so I'm sure they're a big part of the weight. Frame size is xl.
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Thanks! - the bathroom scale has it at 8.8kg.
The elitewheels are slt 50mm deep x 29mm wide, so I'm sure they're a big part of the weight. Frame size is xl.
Nice, first 218 build I've seen. Good to hear everything's working
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Thanks for the input on the stability of the 177. I mostly ride 30-35 kmh but when racing there are rides that go 50+ kmh. Does it feel unsafe when cornering at high speed only or when going straight as well?
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To add on to the stability conversation...I kinda echo what everyone has already said about the 177.
I'm not the fastest rider, but I do occasionally push the 30mph mark on my rides, mainly on downhills. On downhills I push until 35 mph or so before my confidence starts declining. I think it has a lot to do with my (lack of) skills and the crappy surfaces around here and not entirely the bike feeling unstable. I would probably push it a bit more if I were riding on nicer surfaces. It doesn't feel as solid as my gravel bike, but I'm not sure if that's a fair comparison. Not as solid, but definitely more comfortable and supple.
On the flats I never feel unsafe but I do struggle to maintain speed above 30mph or so. I think I could improve that with different gearing, better fitness and a different wheel/tire choice, but a more aero frame would likely help as well.
For serious racing with hard sprints you may be better off with a different frame in order to work just a bit less, but the 177 is pretty sweet as an all-rounder imo.
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I've been lurking around the forum for a while and now I think it's time for me to finally build my budget dream bike.
Focus is aero but try to get sub 8 kg, the components I have in mind are:
Elitewheels Drive 50 wheels
Sram rival etap hydraulic 2x12 groupset (try to switch to second hand red crankset if I can find a good deal, and force cassette)
So to the frame, velobuild seems to have good quality to price ratio. I was set on the 177 but now I saw 218 was released. It's supposedly more aero but also heavier. Please help me decide, or suggest another not so heavy aero frame? It must have integrated cables in the handlebar/stem, for the good looks.
218
Pros: aero, looks (even though it kinda bothers me that it's a copy of dogma f), BSA bb
Cons: weight
177
Pros: weight, not so aero?
Cons: pressfit bb (it's a pita to change and in my experience it's prone to creaks)
Or maybe the 177 is as aero as the 218?
Did you decide after all? I was at the same situation but I have decided for a 218.