Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: braincore on April 17, 2022, 01:15:42 AM
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Just saw a new R-218 listed on VB and didn't see it mentioned here yet. Anyone know whether this mimics an existing geometry?
http://www.velobuild.com/products/http-wwwvelobuildcom-products-http-wwwvelobuildcom-products-2021-vb-r-218-carbon-fiber-road-frame-disc-version-integrated-hidden-cables-345
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Dogma F?
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hahah this thing looks like a dogma
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For me it kind of defeat the purpose of not wanting to own a copied branded frame. Gonna keep explaining on group rides that it's a VB frame and not an OEM dogma copy, but ya, who cares right!
VB is going to sell a lot of these just like the 168 is a big hit for VB.
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hope the seatpost is better than the 168, many people complaining it is sliding dow.
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I hope I'm wrong and this is way lighter but f14 is heavy.
Frame 1300g I seen a listing even say 1690g. :o
Fork 490g
Handlebar 400g
Seatpost 240g
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frames almost a 1-1. their XXL (i think its a 54?) is half a millimeter off of the 575 size (or 57.5) for the f12's reach and stack.
At the end of the day, the frames probably okay (from a reputable seller) but its not going to weigh the 750 grams the f12 weighed, its going to weigh like 1200g due to the tubes being so aerodynamic.
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Apparently this frame wasn't intended for average-sized Americans LoL
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tbf those dimensions arent absurdly small. theyre just small for me, whos 6'7.
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It's not a one to one clone of the F, but very close and made to look like it. I think they must have bought the mold one of the Taiwanese copiers have been selling, then got one of the Chinese OEMs they use to build it. Reason being they also frequently use BSA - I can't see VB or other mainland makers independently ordering the design of a mold set up for BSA on a modern road bike.
I'm sure it'll be heavy, but the bad thing to me is that the situation is as above, rather than with PF (or failing that T47), and that given the clone nature they didn't fix the ghastly offset seatpost from the real Dogma F - that sharp trailing edge behind the seatpost at the top of the seat tube 1) looks awful 2) must badly impact aero performance. If this was an 'homage' like the 099 and 168 are to the Venge and SL7 rspectively, rather than a clone, then I'm sure a much better bike would have resulted.
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i like them for doing something like this but i hate the size variation. anyone over 6'3 is probably going to run into a sizing issue. i know inseam and armspan are factors but theres a good chance they will have a hard time fitting into a 58, unless the person is flexible.
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I asked Chris about weight. He said 80g heavier than R-168.
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FWIW Chris told me the mold was not from the Taiwanese copiers and that the BB is BSA because many customers had asked for it.
Not sure what to think. It seems very odd to me, given that virtually the only other carbon bikes produced these days with BSA are clones - because they haven't updated their tooling. And I never see anyone asking for it except steel traditionalists on round tubed bikes. BSA-68 is a completely deprecated standard for carbon road frames, and for good reason. Shell width is very narrow, bore diameter is small, and there's the danger of galvanic corrosion and debonding re: the carbon / alu interface. It's basically the worst of all worlds.
I see people asking for BB386 and T47 ... but BSA-68 on a carbon road frame? Wat.
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fm098 and a handful of other rim brakes ive seen offer bsa. bsa's not that uncommon and i personally prefer it, yes corrosion is an issue but if you take proper care of it shouldnt be an issue with the right stuff added.
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tbf those dimensions arent absurdly small. theyre just small for me, whos 6'7.
Your other thread makes 100% sense now
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Because everyone wants to look like they belong to INEOS Grenadiers…
I see people asking for BB386 and T47 ... but BSA-68 on a carbon road frame? Wat.
If it makes a difference, the F12 has an Italian BB, which is just BSA with the bad habit of loosening itself over time
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HAHA
as my insta says, my height is 99% of my personality, and the other 50 is my stupidity @1sigma
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Because everyone wants to look like they belong to INEOS Grenadiers…
If it makes a difference, the F12 has an Italian BB, which is just BSA with the bad habit of loosening itself over time
I'm shocked. The F too still has ITA .... that's absolutely ridiculous. No wonder it can only fit a 28mm tire max, despite less than massive faring of the seatube over the rear tire.
VB are claiming 32mm. If true then the BB area and chainstays must differ significantly from the original.
SKY / INEOS going after all the marginal gains and then not insisting on an update to a modern BB standard after all these years. That's pretty funny.
I take back what I said then. In this context BSA makes some sense. But imagine if it had been BB386 instead ...
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whats wrong with bb386?
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Nothing. Of the ones available it's the most ideal assuming it's well toleranced.
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I'm shocked. The F too still has ITA .... that's absolutely ridiculous.
I can only assume it is some weird Italian tradition thing.
SKY / INEOS going after all the marginal gains and then not insisting on an update to a modern BB standard after all these years. That's pretty funny.
I guess, to some degree, teams do not choose their kit.
And besides the BB the F12 is a great bike. In terms of racing, and having a team of mechanics and all that, I don't imagine the BB procession would be an issue.
I'm sure Pinarello has some marginal gain rationale for doing it, although it could very well be a support-local-industry situation
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Apparently this frame wasn't intended for average-sized Americans LoL
Biggest size is about equivalent to a 58cm Trek. Average US male height corresponds to a 56cm Trek according to Trek.
As always, your sizing mileage may vary depending on your specific measurements. Trek suggest a 54cm for me but I'd take a 50cm or 47cm.
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Biggest size is about equivalent to a 58cm Trek. Average US male height corresponds to a 56cm Trek according to Trek.
As always, your sizing mileage may vary depending on your specific measurements. Trek suggest a 54cm for me but I'd take a 50cm or 47cm.
I was being a bit facetious. I’m 6 feet tall myself, and typically take a 54 or 56 depending on the reach.
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Velobuild has direct mount rim brake model option now.
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hope the seatpost is better than the 168, many people complaining it is sliding dow.
mine is sliding as well
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mine is sliding as well
What is the specs of the 168 seatpost clamp hex socket cap bolt?
My 177 had slipping seatpost issues and I think it is solved now.
My VB177 seatpost clamp came with a M6/35mm hex socket cap bolt.
I swapped it with the M6/30mm hex socket cap bolt from my 099 seatpost clamp and my seatpost slipping issues seam to have disappeared after over 100km of testing.
I'm not sure if the seat clamps would be similar but maybe you can try this option.
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What is the specs of the seatpost clamp hex socket cap bolt?
My 177 had slipping seatpost issues and I think it is solved now.
My VB177 seatpost clamp came with a M6/35mm hex socket cap bolt.
I swapped it with the M6/30mm hex socket cap bolt from my 099 seatpost clamp and my seatpost slipping issues seam to have disappeared after over 100km of testing.
I'm not sure if the seat clamps would be similar but maybe you can try this option.
I'm gonna check it, thank you very much
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Has someone bought this frame? I wanna give it a try
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Think you'll need to wait a month or two for many reports.
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Think you'll need to wait a month or two for many reports.
You’re maybe right ;)
I will order the frame this week. But I don’t know which size. I’m 173cm and 80 inseam. What size do you suggest? (515 or 530)
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mine is sliding as well
Strange, I've never had any issues with my 168 seat post slipping and I'm a heavier rider at 90 Kg +
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You’re maybe right ;)
I will order the frame this week. But I don’t know which size. I’m 173cm and 80 inseam. What size do you suggest? (515 or 530)
Whats your current bike and size? Do you like the position or do you want to change something?
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Whats your current bike and size? Do you like the position or do you want to change something?
Right now I have a BMC Racemachine 2011 in 53. it feels like it’s a bit to big, but not much. So 515 and 530 should both fit..
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Strange, I've never had any issues with my 168 seat post slipping and I'm a heavier rider at 90 Kg +
Seems like luck of the draw.
When I built the bike, I marked my post with crayon just to track any slippage.
I torqued to spec, and it hasn’t slipped since day 1.
I’m not the heaviest nor lightest (88kg last season, currently 77kg)
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Is something wrong with me? After watching this Dogma F12 build video...I almost wanna build a 218 myself :D
YouTube Title: Dream Build Bike Pinarello F12 Shimano Duraace Miche Wheelset made in İtaly
https://youtu.be/fqIfAsdmN30 (https://youtu.be/fqIfAsdmN30)
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Is something wrong with me? After watching this Dogma F12 build video...I almost wanna build a 218 myself :D
YouTube Title: Dream Build Bike Pinarello F12 Shimano Duraace Miche Wheelset made in İtaly
https://youtu.be/fqIfAsdmN30 (https://youtu.be/fqIfAsdmN30)
Do it!
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Is something wrong with me? After watching this Dogma F12 build video...I almost wanna build a 218 myself :D
YouTube Title: Dream Build Bike Pinarello F12 Shimano Duraace Miche Wheelset made in İtaly
https://youtu.be/fqIfAsdmN30 (https://youtu.be/fqIfAsdmN30)
What stopping you ?
DO IT for all of us here
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FWIW Chris told me the mold was not from the Taiwanese copiers and that the BB is BSA because many customers had asked for it.
Not sure what to think. It seems very odd to me, given that virtually the only other carbon bikes produced these days with BSA are clones - because they haven't updated their tooling. And I never see anyone asking for it except steel traditionalists on round tubed bikes. BSA-68 is a completely deprecated standard for carbon road frames, and for good reason. Shell width is very narrow, bore diameter is small, and there's the danger of galvanic corrosion and debonding re: the carbon / alu interface. It's basically the worst of all worlds.
I see people asking for BB386 and T47 ... but BSA-68 on a carbon road frame? Wat.
Ex SBI dealer employee/mechanic/slave here chiming in:
Caveat: I am still a bike mechanic in spirit but now I do non-bike things. Last time I was in a Specialized shop was 2020-21.
BSA is not dead. SBI has done with BSA what Trek did with T47. They implemented traditional BSA bottom brackets for a host of products one year that honestly surprised us. But! We welcomed it. Even if it means using tiny tiny little bottom bracket bearings to run 30 mm spindles. They went back to BSA and even sold it a little as a “let’s go back to what works” upgrade.
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For me it kind of defeat the purpose of not wanting to own a copied branded frame. Gonna keep explaining on group rides that it's a VB frame and not an OEM dogma copy, but ya, who cares right!
VB is going to sell a lot of these just like the 168 is a big hit for VB.
I’m toying with getting a VB 168. SBI font seems to be Serpentine Medium Oblique; I want to get frame decals for the down tube in giant letters that say “Yarghmac”.
I say have fun with it! :-)
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Is something wrong with me? After watching this Dogma F12 build video...I almost wanna build a 218 myself :D
YouTube Title: Dream Build Bike Pinarello F12 Shimano Duraace Miche Wheelset made in İtaly
Thanks for sharing this nice video.
Mounting the handlebar reversed first is a great idea !
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For me it kind of defeat the purpose of not wanting to own a copied branded frame. Gonna keep explaining on group rides that it's a VB frame and not an OEM dogma copy, but ya, who cares right!
VB is going to sell a lot of these just like the 168 is a big hit for VB.
Check out the latest Colnago V4Rs spyshots (https://cyclingtips.com/2022/05/tadej-pogacar-has-a-new-colnago-aero-bike/) and tell me it doesn’t look like a SL7 inspired open mould frame
And I don’t see anything wrong with buying an open mould frame as long as one doesn’t slap the logo of the real thing along the downtube. In the watch world they call timepieces inspired by famous models ‘Microbrand homages’ and there’s no reason why we can’t extend the same euphemism to bikes.
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Check out the latest Colnago V4Rs spyshots (https://cyclingtips.com/2022/05/tadej-pogacar-has-a-new-colnago-aero-bike/) and tell me it doesn’t look like a SL7 inspired open mould frame
And I don’t see anything wrong with buying an open mould frame as long as one doesn’t slap the logo of the real thing along the downtube. In the watch world they call timepieces inspired by famous models ‘Microbrand homages’ and there’s no reason why we can’t extend the same euphemism to bikes.
As the owner of a few Rolex Submariner homages...I agree with this assessment haha.
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Hi everyone!
New to the forum and this is my first post.
I just wanted to report that I have a V BR 218 in the rim brake version on its way to me.
I’ll send some pics and keep you updated on the build process.
I too would have preferred a non counterfeit design. But I wanted a direct mount rim brake frame with internal cable routing that I liked the look of and that does not look like a Tarmac or Venge. That narrowed it down to this one.
The plan is to transfer my existing parts and wheels over to this frame.
I currently got a Ridley Helium in its low spec T700/T800 version from 2016. Frame weight is just below 1000g. This frame in XXL should be between 1200 and 1300g. I’m fine with that since it’s pan flat where I live.
The Helium in its current build is 7.1 kg ready to go with pedals and Garmin mount. So this one should ideally still be in the 7.5kg range.
Let’s see if I’m right.
Cheers
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https://www.instagram.com/p/CfADOqCO6Q6/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
Someone finally built a 218...
EDIT: oh, he already posted it in the 177 vs 218 thread haha my bad
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Yep. That's mine.
First off thanks to all the regular posters on this forum for all the knowledge they share!
I was considering a 177 back in April, but when they introduced the 218, I decided to give that a shot instead.
I ordered the XL frame on 4-18-22, they shipped on 5/6 and I got the frame on 5/12. I was pretty pleased with that speed.
I went with matte black, which maybe helped getting it a little quicker.
Wheels are elite SLT 50mm deep 29mm wide and the groupset is Sensa Empire.
No issues with the frame, other than the challenges of getting the cables through the integrated bars. Being my first build, I didn't think it was too bad.
I've only had time to get about 30 miles in so far, but no problem to report yet. I did put a little tape on my seat post, so I can check to make sure it's not slipping over time, as that's been an issue on other velobuild frames.
My other bike is an aluminum endurance frame, so this should be a lot lighter and quicker. The bathroom scale has the 218at just under 19.5 lbs, my endurance bike is 25 lbs.
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Yep. That's mine.
First off thanks to all the regular posters on this forum for all the knowledge they share!
I was considering a 177 back in April, but when they introduced the 218, I decided to give that a shot instead.
I ordered the XL frame on 4-18-22, they shipped on 5/6 and I got the frame on 5/12. I was pretty pleased with that speed.
I went with matte black, which maybe helped getting it a little quicker.
Wheels are elite SLT 50mm deep 29mm wide and the groupset is Sensa Empire.
No issues with the frame, other than the challenges of getting the cables through the integrated bars. Being my first build, I didn't think it was too bad.
I've only had time to get about 30 miles in so far, but no problem to report yet. I did put a little tape on my seat post, so I can check to make sure it's not slipping over time, as that's been an issue on other velobuild frames.
My other bike is an aluminum endurance frame, so this should be a lot lighter and quicker. The bathroom scale has the 218at just under 19.5 lbs, my endurance bike is 25 lbs.
Thanks for posting this!
I should receive mine any day now.
Just a few questions: Did you check the weight for accuracy? The XL frame's weight was quoted to me by Chris at 1200g.
Shifting housings just run all the way through the frame? Or are there any cable stops inbetween?
How do you find the handlebars? Are they overly flexy?
I'll get mine with custom paint on frame and seatpost. I'm a bit afraid that the paint might introduce slipping issues with the seatpost but we shall see.
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Sorry I didn't weigh anything prior to assembling.
The cable housings run all the way through, no stops. I used foam liners over mine to keep them quiet.
I hope you get yours soon - can't wait to see it!
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Is the 218 an actual "open mold" of the Dogma F12 design?
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Is the 218 an actual "open mold" of the Dogma F12 design?
I would say of the new Dogma F. The F12 has different seat stays.
@jth15656 is there a hole at the end of the handlebars for di2 barend junction box?
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No, there wasn't a hole near the bar end.
Just the two on the underside for cable routing.
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No, there wasn't a hole near the bar end.
Just the two on the underside for cable routing.
does the computer mount you have come with the frame/handlebar or do you have to buy it separately?
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No, the mount didn't come with. I found it on aliexpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803631474734.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.550218022MkFKA&gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803631474734.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.550218022MkFKA&gatewayAdapt=4itemAdapt)
It fits well on the bars. I'm just hoping it holds up well with the weight of my Karoo2 and headlight on it.
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does the computer mount you have come with the frame/handlebar or do you have to buy it separately?
It’s not included. But I did ask Chris and Velobuild added a Garmin mount to my order for 15 USD.
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Hi everyone!
I promised to update everyone as soon as I received my frame. Well, it took longer than expected because there was a bit of a mishap.
Velobuild shipped my frameset after 10 days, exactly as promised. It took another three weeks for it to get to Germany. That's longer than usual but still perfectly OK.
However, upon unpacking I realized that I received a disc brake frameset when I had actually ordered the rim brake version. I sorted it out with Chris and I will now get my actual frameset. The disc brake frame will now be shipped on to another customer.
However, since I had it lying around for a week or so, I made some pics and weighed everything for y'all. So here it is. Frame Size is an XXL. Handlebar is 120/40.
Overall quality seems perfectly OK for the price. Some minor imperfections in the carbon finishing here and there, maybe the caliper seats are not perfectly faced, BB threads are OK, bearing seats in frame and fork as well.
I have never seen a Dogma F in real life but from what I can see on the internet, it's a carbon copy. It even has the asymmetrical rear seat and chain stays as you can see in the pics.
More pics and details to follow. I also shot a few pics from inside the headtube seattube and downtube.
Cheers
Sebastian
I ordered it with custom paint, which will add some weight, I guess.
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Hi everyone!
I promised to update everyone as soon as I received my frame. Well, it took longer than expected because there was a bit of a mishap.
Velobuild shipped my frameset after 10 days, exactly as promised. It took another three weeks for it to get to Germany. That's longer than usual but still perfectly OK.
However, upon unpacking I realized that I received a disc brake frameset when I had actually ordered the rim brake version. I sorted it out with Chris and I will now get my actual frameset. The disc brake frame will now be shipped on to another customer.
However, since I had it lying around for a week or so, I made some pics and weighed everything for y'all. So here it is. Frame Size is an XXL. Handlebar is 120/40.
Overall quality seems perfectly OK for the price. Some minor imperfections in the carbon finishing here and there, maybe the caliper seats are not perfectly faced, BB threads are OK, bearing seats in frame and fork as well.
I have never seen a Dogma F in real life but from what I can see on the internet, it's a carbon copy. It even has the asymmetrical rear seat and chain stays as you can see in the pics.
More pics and details to follow. I also shot a few pics from inside the headtube seattube and downtube.
Cheers
Sebastian
I ordered it with custom paint, which will add some weight, I guess.
If you have some a spare wheel and 30 or 32mm tire laying around, check to see if it fits. They're claiming 32mm clearance. Front is probably ok ... but rear ... hmm?
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If you have some a spare wheel and 30 or 32mm tire laying around, check to see if it fits. They're claiming 32mm clearance. Front is probably ok ... but rear ... hmm?
I measured the geometry and it is exactly the same as a 57.5 Pinarello Dogma F. Velobuild’s geo sheet is actually wrong as it states that the seat tube is 57 tall. It is actually 54cm just like on the real Dogma F.
I’m currently travelling and won’t be able to check the tire clearance before next weekend. Dunno what Pinarello recommends for a Dogma F in the disc version? But I guess that would be a good indicator. Also, I think Ineos used 30mm tires on stage 5 of this year’s TdF when they rode the cobbles. So that works apparently.
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I measured the geometry and it is exactly the same as a 57.5 Pinarello Dogma F. Velobuild’s geo sheet is actually wrong as it states that the seat tube is 57 tall. It is actually 54cm just like on the real Dogma F.
I’m currently travelling and won’t be able to check the tire clearance before next weekend. Dunno what Pinarello recommends for a Dogma F in the disc version? But I guess that would be a good indicator. Also, I think Ineos used 30mm tires on stage 5 of this year’s TdF when they rode the cobbles. So that works apparently.
Officially 28mm. Very tight 30mm for the real Dogma F.
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I ordered it with custom paint, which will add some weight, I guess.
Looks very nice.
I also ordered a frame in size M but in Matte carbon, so should be a bit lighter. Pretty excited and curious about how much it weights.
Also found this seatpost with 0 Setback on Aliexpress. https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005004374653385.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.138d2e0ehY5rQz&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu
Do you thinks it fits the frame?
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Looks very nice.
I also ordered a frame in size M but in Matte carbon, so should be a bit lighter. Pretty excited and curious about how much it weights.
Also found this seatpost with 0 Setback on Aliexpress. https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005004374653385.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.138d2e0ehY5rQz&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu
Do you thinks it fits the frame?
I've seen that one, too. I see no reason why it shouldn't work. But you best compare the dimensions with the one that is included with the frame before you buy.
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Here are a few more details.
I've made some shots from the inside of the frame. Everything looks fairly normal judging from my experience with other frames.
The headtube area has some wrinkles. Some of it might be resin pooling. Some of it might be wrinkles in carbon sheets. Make of it what you will. I've seen similar things in other frames. I think it should be fine as this is not a lightweight frame and the headtube area seems fairly overbuilt. But obviously there's no way to know for sure unless you have someone scan and/or x-ray it.
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Officially 28mm. Very tight 30mm for the real Dogma F.
I’ve measured the chainstay clearance before shipping the frame. It is almost 40mm and narrows down to around 38mm right before the bottom bracket. I see no reason why a 32mm tire won’t fit, if that’s important to you.
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Here are a few more details.
I've made some shots from the inside of the frame. Everything looks fairly normal judging from my experience with other frames.
The headtube area has some wrinkles. Some of it might be resin pooling. Some of it might be wrinkles in carbon sheets. Make of it what you will. I've seen similar things in other frames. I think it should be fine as this is not a lightweight frame and the headtube area seems fairly overbuilt. But obviously there's no way to know for sure unless you have someone scan and/or x-ray it.
Have you got yours yet? :)
@jth15656 how long have you had yours now and do you still recommend it? I saw it yesterday and got sooo hooked! So on the fence of ordering one.
Another thing that I am wondering is if its possible to swap the handlebar in the future or are we glued to its proprietary one?
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I've had mine built for just over a month now and ridden around 225 miles. I haven't had any issues yet, so no regrets!
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I built mine up on Saturday and put some chrome decals on it :D
Rides extremly well and comfortable.
My bike before was a Cannondale Supersix evo (2016).
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I've had mine built for just over a month now and ridden around 225 miles. I haven't had any issues yet, so no regrets!
I built mine up on Saturday and put some chrome decals on it :D
Rides extremly well and comfortable.
My bike before was a Cannondale Supersix evo (2016).
These replies are for both of you :)
You guys have awesome bikes! I almost pulled the plug on the 168, when I saw this one. It was jawdroping!
So to the questions:
- Did you pay 499+shipping only or was it any "hidden cost" or additional costs that appeared on the way?
- What is your tire width?
- Is it the default handlebar?
- Did you have any kit during the building phase of the bike?
- Which size did you go and what is your height?
- is it possible to swap the handlebar to another one if I dont like that one?
- did you guys got any discount?
- how much did he charge for the paint? Different paint, different price?
- any recommendations before I order?
Sorry for the questions, thing is that I have recently become a father and last time when he was born I missed the opportunity to order VBR 099 due to the economical situation. And now, it feels that I dont want to miss this one.
I am very new to bikes however very eager to learn because I want to do it all in the future and dont want to send it to the LBS everytime I need to make a service. Also I come from a gravelbike called White GX LTD, so my idea was to move all the components to this frame and build up the other one with cheap other chinese brands that I saw some from Trace Velo.
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• Did you pay 499+shipping only or was it any "hidden cost" or additional costs that appeared on the way?
I paid 499+160 for shipping (XDB). No more costs for me like taxes or customs. (I live in Germany.)
• What is your tire width?
Currently 28mm on 21mm inner width rims. But there is plenty more room, I think 32mm should also fit.
• Is it the default handlebar?
Yes.
• Did you have any kit during the building phase of the bike?
No special tools required, you dont have to press in bearings etc. Hardest thing for me was routing di2 and hydraulic cables through the handlebar.
• Which size did you go and what is your height?
I went for Size 54 (M), but my old bikes all were Size 56. I am 181cm.
• is it possible to swap the handlebar to another one if I dont like that one?
I think only the "Talon 1 Piece Handlebars fit". But you have a lot of choice in stem length and width on the vb site. Also on aliexpress there are alot of these bars in different sizes. All models for F12/F should fit.
• did you guys got any discount?
No :D
• how much did he charge for the paint? Different paint, different price?
I dont know, I didnt ask. Went for Matte Carbon and I think it is beautiful in the sun.
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Have you got yours yet? :)
@jth15656 how long have you had yours now and do you still recommend it? I saw it yesterday and got sooo hooked! So on the fence of ordering one.
Another thing that I am wondering is if its possible to swap the handlebar in the future or are we glued to its proprietary one?
I’m still waiting for mine. I’ve sent the disc frame on to another customer. My rim brake frame is on the way. I’ll be posting updates once I got it. It’ll be interesting to see whether there are any weight differences.
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I’m still waiting for mine. I’ve sent the disc frame on to another customer. My rim brake frame is on the way. I’ll be posting updates once I got it. It’ll be interesting to see whether there are any weight differences.
Nice! Did you chose any color? :)
• Did you pay 499+shipping only or was it any "hidden cost" or additional costs that appeared on the way?
I paid 499+160 for shipping (XDB). No more costs for me like taxes or customs. (I live in Germany.)
• What is your tire width?
Currently 28mm on 21mm inner width rims. But there is plenty more room, I think 32mm should also fit.
• Is it the default handlebar?
Yes.
• Did you have any kit during the building phase of the bike?
No special tools required, you dont have to press in bearings etc. Hardest thing for me was routing di2 and hydraulic cables through the handlebar.
• Which size did you go and what is your height?
I went for Size 54 (M), but my old bikes all were Size 56. I am 181cm.
• is it possible to swap the handlebar to another one if I dont like that one?
I think only the "Talon 1 Piece Handlebars fit". But you have a lot of choice in stem length and width on the vb site. Also on aliexpress there are alot of these bars in different sizes. All models for F12/F should fit.
• did you guys got any discount?
No :D
• how much did he charge for the paint? Different paint, different price?
I dont know, I didnt ask. Went for Matte Carbon and I think it is beautiful in the sun.
Regarding the handlebar, is it circular hole like the "standard"? Or any weird shape? :)
Is the matte black prone to fingerprint?
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Nice! Did you chose any color? :)
I chose the same Color as the disc frame that I was accidentally sent. A sort of gunmetal grey.
Regarding the handlebar, is it circular hole like the "standard"? Or any weird shape? :)
The frame has 1.5 inch bearings top and bottom. So you can fit any integrated handlebar for that standard. For instance FSA’s ACR integrated stem and bar system. Loads of other choices on AliExpress. Personally I think the bar that is included is absolutely fine. The steerer is a normal round one. Brake hoses and cables are routed between steerer and headset bearing. Hence the 1.5 inch upper bearing in order to have enough space.
Is the matte black prone to fingerprint?
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I chose the same Color as the disc frame that I was accidentally sent. A sort of gunmetal grey.
Regarding the handlebar, is it circular hole like the "standard"? Or any weird shape? :)
The frame has 1.5 inch bearings top and bottom. So you can fit any integrated handlebar for that standard. For instance FSA’s ACR integrated stem and bar system. Loads of other choices on AliExpress. Personally I think the bar that is included is absolutely fine. The steerer is a normal round one. Brake hoses and cables are routed between steerer and headset bearing. Hence the 1.5 inch upper bearing in order to have enough space.
Is the matte black prone to fingerprint?
That color is badass tho! :)
I think I will go with blue ish color. Have decided that the order will take its place on the 25th once the salary comes.
Ah! Now it makes more sense! I thought it was triangle shaped based on the "cap".
One downside that I can think of is the guide tubes that doesnt exists and some people say that its very hard to pull the cable through without any cable. Wonder how that will be. I think so too but was just curious how they are going to hold up in the future in case it breaks or if I get any hairline cracks.
Which wheels were you planning to go with?
Speaking about the stem, is there any angle to these stems?
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I chose the same Color as the disc frame that I was accidentally sent. A sort of gunmetal grey.
Is it this color? http://www.velobuild.com/products/2022-vb-r-218-carbon-fiber-aero-road-frame-disc-version-grey-metallic
Your pictures seems to be brighter somehow.
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Is it this color? http://www.velobuild.com/products/2022-vb-r-218-carbon-fiber-aero-road-frame-disc-version-grey-metallic
Your pictures seems to be brighter somehow.
Yes. That’s the frameset they sent me. The photo on the website is way too dark. You can see from my photos that it looks like a darkish grey metallic. I quite like the Color. I discussed it with Chris and he suggested this Color and sent me a sample pic. That pic however looked nothing like the actual color the frame is painted in. :)
So you see that it can be a bit hit and miss. I was lucky as I’m satisfied with my choice.
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Yes. That’s the frameset they sent me. The photo on the website is way too dark. You can see from my photos that it looks like a darkish grey metallic. I quite like the Color. I discussed it with Chris and he suggested this Color and sent me a sample pic. That pic however looked nothing like the actual color the frame is painted in. :)
So you see that it can be a bit hit and miss. I was lucky as I’m satisfied with my choice.
Hahah yeah def for sure! Thats why I consider either going with matte black as the standard one haha! :D
gonna check the website for some samples.
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Hello Sebastian, im thinking about buying this frameset and slowbly build a bike on it when i can obtain all the other components. i read that you chose the XXL size, im 186 cm tall and im not quite sure if i should go for the XXL or XL. how tall are you?
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Hi, I'm about to get a bike fit for this frame and was wondering about the handlebar sizing - is the width measured from the hoods or total? (saw online that it might be total width instead of standard hood distance sizing)
Also would someone confirm that 32mm width tyres fit on this frame? Thanks
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Hello Sebastian, im thinking about buying this frameset and slowbly build a bike on it when i can obtain all the other components. i read that you chose the XXL size, im 186 cm tall and im not quite sure if i should go for the XXL or XL. how tall are you?
I’m around 190cm tall. I have a pretty good idea of my bike fit and I will get within -4mm of my regular reach with a 120mm stem length and a 40cm bar. Stack will be similar or a bit lower to my current bike, if required. I’m currently riding a Ridley Helium in size 57, which comes out very tall. It’s around the equivalent of a “classic” size 60.
The setback of the seatpost should be no issue since the seat angle is quite steep on this one. Also, the bb is lower than on my Helium.
But it’s about the smallest frame I can get away with with a 120mm stem.
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Hi, I'm about to get a bike fit for this frame and was wondering about the handlebar sizing - is the width measured from the hoods or total? (saw online that it might be total width instead of standard hood distance sizing)
Also would someone confirm that 32mm width tyres fit on this frame? Thanks
I still got the bars lying around as I was told to keep them for my frameset (which is finally on its way).
I need to recheck but I think the width is actually the total width of the handlebars. So a 40cm equates to around 38 when measured from Center to Center. But I’ll check again.
EDIT: They're actually around 41cm in total and around 39cm when measured center-center (see pic).
About the tire clearance: Like I said I’d expect them to fit. Chain stay clearance is 40-38mm right at the BB. But I haven’t actually stuck in a wheelset with that kind of rubber. One of the disc brake owners would have to confirm.
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That color is badass tho! :)
I think I will go with blue ish color. Have decided that the order will take its place on the 25th once the salary comes.
Ah! Now it makes more sense! I thought it was triangle shaped based on the "cap".
One downside that I can think of is the guide tubes that doesnt exists and some people say that its very hard to pull the cable through without any cable. Wonder how that will be. I think so too but was just curious how they are going to hold up in the future in case it breaks or if I get any hairline cracks.
Which wheels were you planning to go with?
I got two sets already. A tubeless clincher by FFWD. My favourite set though is a set of AliExpress tubulars that I built myself. Novatec hubs with carbon shell. Pillar 1420 spokes. 60mm deep rims, 28mm wide, total weight 1350g.
Groupset will he Campy Centaur. Record crankset and record direct mount brakes. Sworks Power Saddle. The whole bike should hopefully weigh around 7.5kg with (power meter) pedals and accessories. Around 7.8kg with tubeless wheels.
Speaking about the stem, is there any angle to these stems?
The angle is a fairly standard -6 degrees, I think.
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Speaking about the stem, is there any angle to these stems?
I compared the stem angle with a Ritchey stem with a -6° angle that I had lying around. It's around the same. Maybe slightly more negative on the handlebar, so maybe it's -8°
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I’m around 190cm tall. I have a pretty good idea of my bike fit and I will get within -4mm of my regular reach with a 120mm stem length and a 40cm bar. Stack will be similar or a bit lower to my current bike, if required. I’m currently riding a Ridley Helium in size 57, which comes out very tall. It’s around the equivalent of a “classic” size 60.
The setback of the seatpost should be no issue since the seat angle is quite steep on this one. Also, the bb is lower than on my Helium.
But it’s about the smallest frame I can get away with with a 120mm stem.
thanks for your answer. I just ordered my Frame, im 186cm, i also went for the xxl one with 110/400 handlebar. i hope it was the right decision. I used the current canyon aeroad geometry as orientation. The Canyon size L is very similar to the r218 XXL.
I have another Canyon CF roadbike, so im fairly confident about the best size for me regarding canyon bikes.
I have a focus culebro racebike that i use on my wahoo kickr which has nearly the same dimensions as the XL r218 and it feels too small for me.
i chatted with chris via whatsapp and he told me the xxl frames are in production at the moment and will be ready for further at the end of July. i chose a simple Painjob, matte grey. Shipping to germany via EMS. i will inform you guys when it arrives. It will be the first time i Build a bike so i invite you to join and help me on this journey haha.
Julian
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I am also on the verge of ordering one. However I am just insecure of taking 90 or 100 for the stem. So I have a bikefit appointment this weekend and hopefully after that I would be able to order one. So excited that you all ordered one already! :)
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thanks for your answer. I just ordered my Frame, im 186cm, i also went for the xxl one with 110/400 handlebar. i hope it was the right decision. I used the current canyon aeroad geometry as orientation. The Canyon size L is very similar to the r218 XXL.
I have another Canyon CF roadbike, so im fairly confident about the best size for me regarding canyon bikes.
I have a focus culebro racebike that i use on my wahoo kickr which has nearly the same dimensions as the XL r218 and it feels too small for me.
i chatted with chris via whatsapp and he told me the xxl frames are in production at the moment and will be ready for further at the end of July. i chose a simple Painjob, matte grey. Shipping to germany via EMS. i will inform you guys when it arrives. It will be the first time i Build a bike so i invite you to join and help me on this journey haha.
Julian
Which matte grey did you order mate? :)
I am also super new so I will prolly ask a lot of noob-related questions here haha! :D
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Which matte grey did you order mate? :)
I am also super new so I will prolly ask a lot of noob-related questions here haha! :D
its called "pantone 877c"
Julian
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comment retracted, since people enjoy the looks of this frame and people have bought it, who am I to say they are ugly
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comment retracted, since people enjoy the looks of this frame and people have bought it, who am I to say they are ugly
You are not the only one ;)
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comment retracted, since people enjoy the looks of this frame and people have bought it, who am I to say they are ugly
I don't understand, you find this frame ugly? :)
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Is the handlebar the same as the rest of the road bikes? Also did you order through mail or WhatsApp? :)
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Just finished my build of the 218. It was an easy build and turned out better then I expected.
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Just finished my build of the 218. It was an easy build and turned out better then I expected.
Love the build and choice of paint scheme!
What wheels are those?
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Just finished my build of the 218. It was an easy build and turned out better then I expected.
Smoking hot mate!
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Yep. That's mine.
First off thanks to all the regular posters on this forum for all the knowledge they share!
I was considering a 177 back in April, but when they introduced the 218, I decided to give that a shot instead.
I ordered the XL frame on 4-18-22, they shipped on 5/6 and I got the frame on 5/12. I was pretty pleased with that speed.
I went with matte black, which maybe helped getting it a little quicker.
Wheels are elite SLT 50mm deep 29mm wide and the groupset is Sensa Empire.
No issues with the frame, other than the challenges of getting the cables through the integrated bars. Being my first build, I didn't think it was too bad.
I've only had time to get about 30 miles in so far, but no problem to report yet. I did put a little tape on my seat post, so I can check to make sure it's not slipping over time, as that's been an issue on other velobuild frames.
My other bike is an aluminum endurance frame, so this should be a lot lighter and quicker. The bathroom scale has the 218at just under 19.5 lbs, my endurance bike is 25 lbs.
What is the thing at the end of your right dropbar? :)
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Love the build and choice of paint scheme!
What wheels are those?
The wheels are Farsports Kaze 45. I am waiting for the Winspace hyper 67's to get back in stock.
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What is the thing at the end of your right dropbar? :)
A bar end mirror. I have one on each side, but really only use the left. I guess I want to see the guys who's going to hit me. ;)
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Just finished my build of the 218. It was an easy build and turned out better then I expected.
Nice bike! That paint looks sweet!
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A bar end mirror. I have one on each side, but really only use the left. I guess I want to see the guys who's going to hit me. ;)
I have like seen those big round mirrors like on MC but never those clean as yours. Where did you get it? :)
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Amazon.
Sprintech drop bar mirrors. The were like $34.
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Really nice builds! I mean no offence, but I was just curious if you get any unwanted attention/comments from other riders for riding a Pinarello-inspired frame. Personally I think the bikes look fantastic, and I'd be glad to have one. Just wanted to know if you received any negative comments because of this. Thanks :)
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Really nice builds! I mean no offence, but I was just curious if you get any unwanted attention/comments from other riders for riding a Pinarello-inspired frame. Personally I think the bikes look fantastic, and I'd be glad to have one. Just wanted to know if you received any negative comments because of this. Thanks :)
It's now that I have seen negative comments regarding the appearance of the bike. The hate is a bit to much Imo. Wonders why? I mean, I really like the design of the bike.
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Because it's literally a copy of a different bike. Not inspired, pure copy
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Because it's literally a copy of a different bike. Not inspired, pure copy
you mean that VBR218 is a copy of Dogma F? Or that Dogma F is a copy of another bike?
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I've been looking to build a new bike, but not exactly sure what size I should get that fits me. I am 171cm and the recommended size using SL7 as a reference is size 52. Should I get a Size S(50) in this case?
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I don't understand why someone would want to put the brand decals on a copy / inspired by frame. It's just bizarre. Odd subcategory of brand-whoring. That certainly gets hate, and with some justification. Counterfeit isn't good for the sport, the consumer or the industry. I don't think there's much hate for unbranded stuff though regardless of what it's inspired by or a copy of ...
To me one of the best things about small / no brand company frames is escaping ALL THE BRANDING EVERYWHERE. Unless they want to sponsor me, I can do without all their logos ...
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I've been looking to build a new bike, but not exactly sure what size I should get that fits me. I am 171cm and the recommended size using SL7 as a reference is size 52. Should I get a Size S(50) in this case?
I am 174 and my bike geo fits me with an S at least. So Im gonna go with this on. An M/510 is to big for me :)
Also, its easier to enlarge a smaller bike than making a big bike smaller.
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I'm 174cm as well, but was eyeballing a Large / 520. It's geo most resembles my current Madone, with the exception of stack being about 15mm low. That can be solved with spacers, can't it?
Incidentally, a buddy of mine bought an actual Dogma, and said that they run small. He replaced a 57 Orbea with a 59.5 Pinarello
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I'm 174cm as well, but was eyeballing a Large / 520. It's geo most resembles my current Madone, with the exception of stack being about 15mm low. That can be solved with spacers, can't it?
Incidentally, a buddy of mine bought an actual Dogma, and said that they run small. He replaced a 57 Orbea with a 59.5 Pinarello
The stack is quoted without spacers. You need to take into account however, that at least the 1.5cm spacer below the bar needs to be installed in order to route the cables into the frame. So basically you need to add 1-1.5cm to the quoted stack height.
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Hi guys, first post ever here :D
For the ones who have the vbr218, someone mentioned a place to hold the di2 under the BB. Is it for the junction a box? That would be the first time I see that box not being held under the stem.
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Hi guys, first post ever here :D
For the ones who have the vbr218, someone mentioned a place to hold the di2 under the BB. Is it for the junction a box? That would be the first time I see that box not being held under the stem.
No. It’s a battery holder I think. Though I’m not an expert on Di2 groupsets. Once I receive my frameset I can post pics. Maybe someone else can clarify. I think this is because there is no space for a Di2 battery inside of the aero seatpost.
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Yes it is a battery holder.
I use the 11 Speed Ultegra di2 and i use the barend junction box.
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Loving the current bike builds of this 218 frame. Personally the Pinarello Prince, the F12 and F are the most beautiful frames to me. The Prince is probably the only one realistically within my reach at a stretch to afford.
So, do i keep saving and try to get a real Pinarello Prince, or, should i buy a 218 Velobuild?
Could i ask what everyones experience with these frames / velobuild frames are? Im reading that the carbon layup is actually different to the originals, so how does that translate in real world riding? A few grams heavier? What about stiffness, thats more important to me than weight i would say.
One last question, would the Velobuild 218 be any better, or worse than an aliexpress replica (some of the paint jobs on those are incredible)
Many thanks everyone.
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Loving the current bike builds of this 218 frame. Personally the Pinarello Prince, the F12 and F are the most beautiful frames to me. The Prince is probably the only one realistically within my reach at a stretch to afford.
So, do i keep saving and try to get a real Pinarello Prince, or, should i buy a 218 Velobuild?
Could i ask what everyones experience with these frames / velobuild frames are? Im reading that the carbon layup is actually different to the originals, so how does that translate in real world riding? A few grams heavier? What about stiffness, thats more important to me than weight i would say.
One last question, would the Velobuild 218 be any better, or worse than an aliexpress replica (some of the paint jobs on those are incredible)
Many thanks everyone.
It ultimately comes down to the question of whether you want the real thing or not and whether you think that the alleged difference in quality and performance justifies the higher price tag.
I'm in the middle of building a 218 rim brake frameset.
It's a carbon copy of the Dogma F. It's at least 200-300g heavier. I got my hands on both the disc and rim version of a size XXL/54 because I was sent the wrong frame. That's another thing you should be prepared to deal with when ordering from VB. Communication was always fast and friendly, but they're prone to making mistakes. After two months, I finally ended up with the right frameset. BUT they did send me an unpainted seat post when I ordered a painted one and they forgot to include the spare derailleur hanger.
Frame and fork weighed roughly the same for disc and rim. Its around 1250g with derailleur hangers and the BB cover and Di2 holder installed. The real Dogma F is quoted around 850g for a medium sized frame, I think. Though I dunno whether that is with or without paint and hardware.
The finish is definitely rough here and there. Especially the headtube bearing seats are not very cleanly finished I gotta say. Installing the bearings was no problem, though.
The layup might be less sophisticated or not. The frame might be less stiff and/or less compliant. That's impossible to know without riding both back to back.
I'll post pics and a review once I have mine built up and once I've ridden it.
Now for the counterfeits on Aliexpress. Personally, I would stay away from it. Because at least with Velobuild, you can read through many different frame builds on this forum and have a bit of an idea as to what you're probably going to get and what kind of trouble might be involved. With Aliexpress, listings pop up and disappear on a daily basis. As do the sellers and their shops. Hard to tell what kind of quality you're buying. It's too much of a gamble, I think. If it is a reputable seller that's been around for years and has a lot of good reviews, then maybe. I've bought various parts from OG Evkin and they've always been rock solid. Also, I'd never buy a counterfeit that's made to look like a real Dogma with decals and everything. But that's just me.
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Thanks Sebastian,
Interesting, "alleged" performance differences between the copies and the original. I wouldn't care if the Velobuild 218 for example wasnt as good as the original, as long as it is plenty stiff enough, and it clearly isn't too heavy for a race bike. It will obviously be just as aero as the original. For the money what is not to love about these Chinese frame sets!
Lots and lot of hate and scaremongering on the internet. Most of the hate probably comes from snobs who can never admit to themselves they payed £10,000 extra to save 300g and have a cleaner looking bearing interface
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New GC Performance video with initial impressions of the 218 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHdsnX7TMuQ&ab_channel=GCPerformance
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New GC Performance video with initial impressions of the 218 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHdsnX7TMuQ&ab_channel=GCPerformance
I'm very curious to see how he gets through the building process.
I'm almost done but it wasn't without problems - as expected.
The exit hole for the rear brake cable on the top tube (i got the rim brake frame) was way too small for any cable outer to fit through. It almost looked like it was meant to be a cable stop. That wouldn't make sense however since there's no cable stop on the other end of the top tube. So I very gently widened the hole by hand with a drill, working my way through various sizes of drills until it was big enough, trying to not scratch the paint in the process. Not for the faint hearted.
The fork steerer's wall thickness is not uniform. It looks clean on the in and outside but still, that doesn't inspire confidence in the quality control at whatever factory builds these things.
The paint came off the fork dropouts as soon as I clamped it for the first time with skewers. No big deal. It shouldn't have been painted there in the first place. But it sure doesn't look pretty.
The compression ring for the upper headset has super sharp edges where it meets the fork steerer. Not exactly confidence inspiring. So I sanded it to make all the edges smoother. Not hard to do because it's made of super soft aluminium. So soft in fact that I bent it by quite a bit when sanding it without noticing. It's so thin at the cable holes that you can easily brake it, so be careful. I'm probably going to replace the fork expander plug with a longer one, but the one that came with it is probably fine. No headset play. It all went together smoothly.
The paint is not perfect here and there if you look closely. But it's still much better than I would ever be able to do myself.
All in all, I'm rather curious to see how durable this thing is in the long run. At least with wheels installed, everything looks to be straight and in line.
The bars are not the stiffest in the world but I've had worse. On the positive side, I found it quite easy to route mechanical outers through the bars and it steers smoothly. We'll see how well it shifts. Hangers are straight front and back, no setup issues.
I'll finish the build tonight and post pictures later.
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Have been riding the 218 for the last few weeks put around 140 miles on it and have had no issue so far. My build was a small and was a little long for me so I ordered 0 setback seat post from aliexp that fits the frame.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803912995653.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef1802HC7fRR
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My build is done. I did a shakedown ride of around 45k. No issues like seatpost slippage or headset play. Everything works fine. Shifting is also smooth despite the full internal routing. The frame is surprisingly comfy. The bars are really nice as well. The shape works very well for me. Fit is not dialed in yet 100%. Saddle position not yet right. But it's great.
Final build as pictured with pedals, cages and garmin mount weighs 7.65kg. I'm pretty happy with that.
More pics and a full review once I got a few more Ks with this bike.
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My build is done. I did a shakedown ride of around 45k. No issues like seatpost slippage or headset play. Everything works fine. Shifting is also smooth despite the full internal routing. The frame is surprisingly comfy. The bars are really nice as well. The shape works very well for me. Fit is not dialed in yet 100%. Saddle position not yet right. But it's great.
Final build as pictured with pedals, cages and garmin mount weighs 7.65kg. I'm pretty happy with that.
More pics and a full review once I got a few more Ks with this bike.
Nice looking build! Love the color and choice of groppo
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My build is done. I did a shakedown ride of around 45k. No issues like seatpost slippage or headset play. Everything works fine. Shifting is also smooth despite the full internal routing. The frame is surprisingly comfy. The bars are really nice as well. The shape works very well for me. Fit is not dialed in yet 100%. Saddle position not yet right. But it's great.
Final build as pictured with pedals, cages and garmin mount weighs 7.65kg. I'm pretty happy with that.
More pics and a full review once I got a few more Ks with this bike.
nice one, that colour is awesome!
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Nice looking build! Love the color and choice of groppo
Thx!
I bought all the parts used or NOS. Campag Centaur is very underrated IMO. It's the poor man's Campag EPS, because it has the same down sweeping thumb paddles which makes it a lot easier to shift in the drops.
Brakes are Record, because I needed direct mount. I got them cheap NOS for less than half the new cost, bc in this day and age no one wants rim brakes ;). Crankset is H11, which is Record level. It's got a different chainline for disc frames, but that's only because the original chainrings are sitting further outboard. I got aftermarket 11 speed rings from Specialites and it works perfectly. Cassette is a regular Shimano 105, bc Campag 11 and Shimano 11 cassettes are virtually identical. Chain is Campag Potenza, bc Campag chains are just top notch.
So all in all, I could even make the bike a bit lighter with a lighter cassette and those fake EEbrakes on Aliexpress. But it's perfectly fine this way, since most of my rides are on pan flat terrain anyway.
I did use a longer expander plug in the end and I would recommend to everyone else to do the same, especially if you're using multiple spacers. The stock one is fine but on the short side. I don't trust these designs.
Tire clearance was a point of discussion here: I got a Vittoria Corsa 28mm tubular on the back. It's 29mm measured. I got about 4-5mm on either side of the chainstays, so I think 32mm might just about fit. BUT the limiting factor will eventually be tire height, because it get's very tight where the tire meets the seattube.
Personally, I see no reason to run bigger tires than this and I do ride shit roads and cobbles with it.
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Have been riding the 218 for the last few weeks put around 140 miles on it and have had no issue so far. My build was a small and was a little long for me so I ordered 0 setback seat post from aliexp that fits the frame.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256803912995653.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.21ef1802HC7fRR
Thank you! these are the little nuggets of information that keep me interested in this frame
It makes me wonder what other non-Velobuild parts can be used on it. Hylix (https://www.ebay.com/itm/303876791966) for example has a seatpost for the F12 which weighs 127.9g, although the seatpost shapes between the F and F12 are different (F is slimmer IIRC), it is an easy 100g saving over the stock VB unit when Hylix eventually releases one. Ditto for the Sigeyi (https://www.sigeyishop.com/product-category/direct-mount-derailleur-hanger/pinarello/) DM hanger and disc hanger cap. And what about the cockpit? the stock VB unit is flexy so why not replace it with adapters for ACR (https://www.fsaproshop.com/products/acr-spacer-for-pinarello-f12), DCR (https://dedaelementi.com/vinci-adapters), and conventional stems (https://glorycycles.com/pinarello-f12-headset-top-cap-for-conventional-stem/)?
Hylex even has a replacement disc fork (https://www.ebay.com/itm/353432339679) for the '19 Venge, the potential for weight saving (http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3650.msg35765.html#msg35765) will be absolutely huge should they ever decide to make one for the F, assuming it'll fit like the F seatpost on the 218. And this is something that is unique to the 218, as other '19 Venge and SL7 inspired open mould frames only possess visual resemblance versus supposed 1:1 fit for original parts.
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Thank you! these are the little nuggets of information that keep me interested in this frame
It makes me wonder what other non-Velobuild parts can be used on it. Hylix (https://www.ebay.com/itm/303876791966) for example has a seatpost for the F12 which weighs 127.9g, although the seatpost shapes between the F and F12 are different (F is slimmer IIRC), it is an easy 100g saving over the stock VB unit when Hylix eventually releases one. Ditto for the Sigeyi (https://www.sigeyishop.com/product-category/direct-mount-derailleur-hanger/pinarello/) DM hanger and disc hanger cap. And what about the cockpit? the stock VB unit is flexy so why not replace it with adapters for ACR (https://www.fsaproshop.com/products/acr-spacer-for-pinarello-f12), DCR (https://dedaelementi.com/vinci-adapters), and conventional stems (https://glorycycles.com/pinarello-f12-headset-top-cap-for-conventional-stem/)?
Hylex even has a replacement disc fork (https://www.ebay.com/itm/353432339679) for the '19 Venge, the potential for weight saving (http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3650.msg35765.html#msg35765) will be absolutely huge should they ever decide to make one for the F, assuming it'll fit like the F seatpost on the 218. And this is something that is unique to the 218, as other '19 Venge and SL7 inspired open mould frames only possess visual resemblance versus supposed 1:1 fit for original parts.
For what it’s worth: the painted stock seatpost I got weighed 226g. Now I got an unpainted one (with clear coat obviously) which weighs just shy of 200g. I upgraded it with a carbon seat clamp that I borrowed from an AliExpress seatpost. That saved another 25g. So you can get closer without spending too much.
Also I have to say that I don’t find the cockpit that flexy when actually riding the bike. The stem is super stiff. It’s really just the drops which are a bit flexier, probably because they have a sort of oval cross section. Dunno whether that’s to fit the hands better or whether that’s supposed to be aero. Either way, I found I don’t notice any excessive flexibility when riding it. I got an AliExpress aero bar that is reminiscent of a Zipp design which feels way worse. But even that one I’ve been riding for thousands of kilometres without issues and it actually feels quite comfy because it eats road buzz.
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Just finished my build waiting on more spacers to cut work on fit. sram forces groupset with power meter crank. only thing not forces is the cassette. 8.5kg
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Looks great.
What frame size is it?
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I got a XS I am 5'6" tall.
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Just finished my build waiting on more spacers to cut work on fit. sram forces groupset with power meter crank. only thing not forces is the cassette. 8.5kg
Nice build!
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I am about to order an XL frame and wondering about the Matte color. (I am also quite exited as it will be my first build :D )
What does it actually mean?
- is it Matte Black paint or Matte Carbon looks with the only coating?
thanks! :)
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The build look great! How does it ride?
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I built mine up on Saturday and put some chrome decals on it :D
Rides extremly well and comfortable.
My bike before was a Cannondale Supersix evo (2016).
So question why put stickers on it to say that it's something that it is not. Even if it's a clone of that something?
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So question why put stickers on it to say that it's something that it is not. Even if it's a clone of that something?
lol
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It seems silly to me and at worst dishonest. I also dislike bike badging to begin with. That's part the draw for me to design my own paint. To put my own "badging" on if I so chose. in a fancy font. "Queen of skulls... off with their head." :p or radiation symbols. or cute skulls.
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Question for anyone that built up the bike already. What torque spec did you wrench to? Thanks :)
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Just finished my build waiting on more spacers to cut work on fit. sram forces groupset with power meter crank. only thing not forces is the cassette. 8.5kg
Can you tell me what saddle that is? And your thoughts on it? Been looking at those 3D printed saddles and even the "cheap" chinese ones are close to $100.
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The saddle i have is ANTARES VERSUS EVO R1 ADAPTIVE.
https://www.fizik.com/eu_en/antares-versus-evo-r1-adaptive.html
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I am about to order an XL frame and wondering about the Matte color. (I am also quite exited as it will be my first build :D )
What does it actually mean?
- is it Matte Black paint or Matte Carbon looks with the only coating?
thanks! :)
it is matte carbon. I ceramic coated mine to protect it.
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Can you tell me what saddle that is? And your thoughts on it? Been looking at those 3D printed saddles and even the "cheap" chinese ones are close to $100.
That makes me want to print a saddle in carbon. I know that it is sla with nylon powder. But seriously. Anyone try printing a saddle.
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it is matte carbon. I ceramic coated mine to protect it.
What did you use to ceramic coat it ? I tried some cheapo ceramic coating, it looks nice for a day. Didn't last as long as turtle wax.. LOL
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Hi VB-R-218 owners, how do you guys install a barrel adjuster for mechanical shifting front derailleur in a full internal cable routing frameset like the 218?
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Hi VB-R-218 owners, how do you guys install a barrel adjuster for mechanical shifting front derailleur in a full internal cable routing frameset like the 218?
I thought about doing it. You could access it through the BB cover. But I decided not to bother because it overcomplicates the cable routing if you have to split the housing down there where it makes a bend towards the derailleur. You could also try to cram an in-line adjuster below the cover in the handlebar maybe. But that would be pretty tight and crammed. I found it easy enough to adjust the cable tension when setting up the derailleur and leave it be.
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Sizing question.
I'm 5' 10" and ride a 56cm madone & email reply from Chris said the size would be XL
1 .Is that correct ? aka same a 56cm ?
2. Can you order the frame unpainted & then have it painted locally or is it better to to just get it in matte black ?
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Compare the reach/stack on geometry geeks, they have the 218 frame there and should have the Madone.
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Compare the reach/stack on geometry geeks, they have the 218 frame there and should have the Madone.
Awesome, thanks. I compared my 2021 Madone SL-7 vs the Velo 218 L & SL sizes
https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/trek-madone-2021-56-cm,velobuild-vb-r-218-2022-525-xl,velobuild-vb-r-218-2022-520-l/
The reach is the same for XL vs Madone, while the XL has a larger stack & stop tube, while the L has a shorter reach but is closer in the top tube & stack
I'm not sure which would be the correct size in my case, so any input would be really appreciated
The other question was on brakes/groupsets
Current Madone is disc + sram force & I am thinking of either using the same setup or trying out campy record mechanical with rim brakes
This would be the very first bike I will have ever built from the ground up, though I can do the maintenance on my current bike & pretty much have a complete toolset
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Awesome, thanks. I compared my 2021 Madone SL-7 vs the Velo 218 L & SL sizes
https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/trek-madone-2021-56-cm,velobuild-vb-r-218-2022-525-xl,velobuild-vb-r-218-2022-520-l/
The reach is the same for XL vs Madone, while the XL has a larger stack & stop tube, while the L has a shorter reach but is closer in the top tube & stack
I'm not sure which would be the correct size in my case, so any input would be really appreciated
The other question was on brakes/groupsets
Current Madone is disc + sram force & I am thinking of either using the same setup or trying out campy record mechanical with rim brakes
This would be the very first bike I will have ever built from the ground up, though I can do the maintenance on my current bike & pretty much have a complete toolset
The stack might seem low on most sizes but you need to add 1.5cm to that figure because of the headset top cap that also acts as a cable routing guide. That’s the lowest possible set up for the handlebar. On more traditional frames with external routing, you can usually slam the stem much lower, so the stack figure is more representative of where the stem would actually sit.
I got an XXL and with the headset top cap it ends up having a stack of 60cm which is actually the same as my old frame despite the stack figure being smaller on the geometry chart.
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Current Madone is disc + sram force & I am thinking of either using the same setup or trying out campy record mechanical with rim brakes
From disc to rim, can I ask you why?
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What did you use to ceramic coat it ? I tried some cheapo ceramic coating, it looks nice for a day. Didn't last as long as turtle wax.. LOL
I used Adam’s UV Advanced Graphene Ceramic Coating Kit. i got it on amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B099SGQVLD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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From disc to rim, can I ask you why?
Ease of maintenance. I don't know how to bleed sram brakes as yet.
1. If I stick with disc, it will be the sram force groupset as I have the chargers etc & don't want to bother with Di2
Also, less cable routing hassle, except for the brakes
I need to check these forums & see if anyone has has any issues routing cables in these frames
2. Since this is a Dogma clone (one of my fav. bikes), I thought it would be cool to have a rim brake one & campy groupsets are very durable & well made
I live in SoCal, so there's not that much rain & it's relatively flat. My wifes 2005 Bianchi with the Chorus groupset is still working fine till today with near zero maintainence
& it's easier to get wheels out of drops & transport the bike.
Still in 2 mind over this & the size. The wheels will likely be Hunts as they are local & I don't need super aero wheels like zipps or dt swiss
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I'm tempted to try a 218 rim brake version myself
I have an old set of rim brake Hyper 65 wheels lying around that would be a great combo. Just wondering how "stiff" the frame is.
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Ease of maintenance. I don't know how to bleed sram brakes as yet.
1. If I stick with disc, it will be the sram force groupset as I have the chargers etc & don't want to bother with Di2
Also, less cable routing hassle, except for the brakes
I need to check these forums & see if anyone has has any issues routing cables in these frames
2. Since this is a Dogma clone (one of my fav. bikes), I thought it would be cool to have a rim brake one & campy groupsets are very durable & well made
I live in SoCal, so there's not that much rain & it's relatively flat. My wifes 2005 Bianchi with the Chorus groupset is still working fine till today with near zero maintainence
& it's easier to get wheels out of drops & transport the bike.
Still in 2 mind over this & the size. The wheels will likely be Hunts as they are local & I don't need super aero wheels like zipps or dt swiss
I agree on the part about cable vs bleeding brake, especially those who stays in apartment. I didn't like the rim wear that comes from rim brakes, and so went with cable actuated disc brakes. But it's heavier than rim brakes..
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I agree on the part about cable vs bleeding brake, especially those who stays in apartment. I didn't like the rim wear that comes from rim brakes, and so went with cable actuated disc brakes. But it's heavier than rim brakes..
I'm also thinking about cable actuated disc brakes............
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I'm also thinking about cable actuated disc brakes............
Hmm, good point. I just saw that Campagnolo Record 12spd groupset is also available in a mechanical disc brake, so that might be a good option or the Chorus
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... I just saw that Campagnolo Record 12spd groupset is also available in a mechanical disc brake...
Mechanical is only for the shifters apparently.
The disc brakes are hydraulic.
https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Groupsets/mechanical_groupsets_for_racing_bicycles
Or do you plan to use the rim brake version shifters coupled with disc callipers ?
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Mechanical is only for the shifters apparently.
The disc brakes are hydraulic.
https://www.campagnolo.com/WW/en/Groupsets/mechanical_groupsets_for_racing_bicycles
Or do you plan to use the rim brake version shifters coupled with disc callipers ?
Hmm, didn’t realize that. I guess I will stick to sram force then so I don’t have multiple sets of bleeding tools etc
and it’s easier to maintain just one system
So campy would only really be an option with rim brakes
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Hmm, didn’t realize that. I guess I will stick to sram force then so I don’t have multiple sets of bleeding tools etc
and it’s easier to maintain just one system
So campy would only really be an option with rim brakes
You can use the rim brake version shifters coupled with juin tech hydraulic disc callipers
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You can use the rim brake version shifters coupled with juin tech hydraulic disc callipers
Juin tech is overpriced but there are a couple of other hybrid disc brakes or cable actuated disc brakes avialable at better prices.
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I used Adam’s UV Advanced Graphene Ceramic Coating Kit. i got it on amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B099SGQVLD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
How well does that last ? I bought a cheapo type, and it doesn't last more than 1 ride or a couple of days at the balcony... which is kind of worse than turtle wax. LOL.
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Hello,
First post here. I have built lots of things but never a road bike. When I saw the VB218 build on GC, I am going to take the plunge. I'm going with a size Small (disk) after looking at VB sizing vs my current bike along with contacting Chris with his recommendation. Model, size and color decided. Now onto wheels and groupset with full hydraulic, no hybrid. I will need to get tools for the brakes and maybe cable routing tool. Any recommendation on what I might need or may overlook for my first road bike build?
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Juin tech is overpriced but there are a couple of other hybrid disc brakes or cable actuated disc brakes avialable at better prices.
Oh, there is an actual product called Juin Tech....... I thought the earlier poster had made a typo ;D
I looked up the campagnolo manuals for servicing & it seems like either the sram force woukd be the easier install or the campy rim brakes would be easier to maintain
Frankly, in all my years of riding I have never had an issues with rim's, though my first & only carbon madone now has disc brakes
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Juin tech is overpriced but there are a couple of other hybrid disc brakes or cable actuated disc brakes avialable at better prices.
Yes, but Juin tech GT-F1 is the only one 4 pistons…
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hello all, does anyone know the length of stock seat post? im waiting for mines to come in I ordered it on the 2nd of sept. its being painted glossy white. I ordered the xxl model im 6,4 or 195 cm.
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hello all, does anyone know the length of stock seat post? im waiting for mines to come in I ordered it on the 2nd of sept. its being painted glossy white. I ordered the xxl model im 6,4 or 195 cm.
I think it's 35cm, but I'd have to double check.
The seattube on the XXL is 54cm. I got the XXL frame and with my seat height of around 81-82cm I got about 10cm of seatpost inserted in the frame. I think that's about as high as you can go with that seatpost. At some point you need an aftermarket post in 40cm length.
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Yes, but Juin tech GT-F1 is the only one 4 pistons…
True.
But my experiences is that I will get wheel-lock before I see any benefit from having 4 pistons. :-)
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True.
But my experiences is that I will get wheel-lock before I see any benefit from having 4 pistons. :-)
I thought more stopping power means more modulability
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Oh, there is an actual product called Juin Tech....... I thought the earlier poster had made a typo ;D
I looked up the campagnolo manuals for servicing & it seems like either the sram force woukd be the easier install or the campy rim brakes would be easier to maintain
Frankly, in all my years of riding I have never had an issues with rim's, though my first & only carbon madone now has disc brakes
I pulled the trigger, order in.... :) Now the wait.... :(
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K3F-d4MlBY
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Anyone knows what the max tire size they can actually fit?
I am trying decide between the 218 or the 167 or maybe the 177 but the 168 can do bigger tires.
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From what I've seen and from what's on their website a 32 will fit.
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not sure if this video has already been shared
https://youtu.be/nmJDZMU4Om8
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I am super excited, I just noticed that my L frame was shipped this afternoon..
but now worried as well. After seeing the BottomBracket issue on the youtube video ( https://youtu.be/-K3F-d4MlBY?t=2074 (https://youtu.be/-K3F-d4MlBY?t=2074) ) Hope mine arrives with a better-aligned frame.
Frame Size: L
Finish: Matte (Black Matte Paint / Carbon-look was not available)
Integrated bar size: 400/120
- I ordered Sensah Empire 11-speed Aluminium.
- ZRACE BR-005 Cable Actuated Hydraulic Disc Brake (I mistakenly ordered for my alu-gravel bike before I learn the direct-mount vs post-mount difference ;D )
- DT Swiss PR 1600 spline 32 (I was about to order EliteWheels Drive 50 but wanted to give an Alu wheel a try first before such investment..)
- Still thinking about what Crankset to use :
- Shimano 105 with Left-crank power-meter
- Shimano Ultegra R8100 (Looks beautiful ;D )
- Magene P325 Power-meter enabled crankset
- Full Carbon Saddle from AliExpress https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32751879676.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.b76e1802HUpTsz (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32751879676.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.b76e1802HUpTsz)
- Muc-Off CARBON GRIPPER (I read some good reviews)
- Liqui Moly 3802 Screw Lock Medium Strength
I am also thinking about buying Bike Torque Wrench, but not sure which one to buy without breaking the bank.
I think there are many other things to consider. Anyway, I'll keep you posted.
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...I am also thinking about buying Bike Torque Wrench, but not sure which one to buy without breaking the bank...
Not sure how strong is your bank but I use the AWM-60 from: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000221636729.html
From 1.8Nm to 60Nm it covers all you need on a bike.
No problem for 2+ years with it, I love this tool.
Unfortunately the 3/8" Hex and Torx sockets I bought with it are not available anymore.
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Look at these from Pro Bike Tool on Amazon (out of stock at the moment)
PRO BIKE TOOL 1/4 Inch Drive Click Torque Wrench Set – 2 to 20 Nm
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083MRWD6Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I bought the 1/4 & 3/8 sets in 2021 & have been using it since then on my Trek Madone SL-7 eTap & these are very good tools.
Your other choice would be ParkTools. This is one area where you do not want to use an uncalibrated wrench & wreck the frame or components
If you want a smaller hand one then get this or parktool (4-6 Nm)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WMPMVGJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Finally bookmark or print this page
https://www.bikeride.com/torque-specifications/
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I am super excited, I just noticed that my L frame was shipped this afternoon..
but now worried as well. After seeing the BottomBracket issue on the youtube video ( https://youtu.be/-K3F-d4MlBY?t=2074 (https://youtu.be/-K3F-d4MlBY?t=2074) ) Hope mine arrives with a better-aligned frame.
Frame Size: L
Finish: Matte (Black Matte Paint / Carbon-look was not available)
Integrated bar size: 400/120
- I ordered Sensah Empire 11-speed Aluminium.
- ZRACE BR-005 Cable Actuated Hydraulic Disc Brake (I mistakenly ordered for my alu-gravel bike before I learn the direct-mount vs post-mount difference ;D )
- DT Swiss PR 1600 spline 32 (I was about to order EliteWheels Drive 50 but wanted to give an Alu wheel a try first before such investment..)
- Still thinking about what Crankset to use :
- Shimano 105 with Left-crank power-meter
- Shimano Ultegra R8100 (Looks beautiful ;D )
- Magene P325 Power-meter enabled crankset
- Full Carbon Saddle from AliExpress https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32751879676.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.b76e1802HUpTsz (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32751879676.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.b76e1802HUpTsz)
- Muc-Off CARBON GRIPPER (I read some good reviews)
- Liqui Moly 3802 Screw Lock Medium Strength
I am also thinking about buying Bike Torque Wrench, but not sure which one to buy without breaking the bank.
I think there are many other things to consider. Anyway, I'll keep you posted.
I'm not sure where you are located but here in USA I just went to Harbor Freight (cheap hardware store chain) and bought a ~$20 torque wrench that has been working just great for over a year now. I have to do the conversion from in-lb to nm every time but it's no big deal. No need to buy an expensive one, even a beam torque wrench will do the job for a bike purposes.
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I am super excited, I just noticed that my L frame was shipped this afternoon..
but now worried as well. After seeing the BottomBracket issue on the youtube video ( https://youtu.be/-K3F-d4MlBY?t=2074 (https://youtu.be/-K3F-d4MlBY?t=2074) ) Hope mine arrives with a better-aligned frame.
Frame Size: L
Finish: Matte (Black Matte Paint / Carbon-look was not available)
Integrated bar size: 400/120
.....
I think there are many other things to consider. Anyway, I'll keep you posted.
What's your height ?
I'm 5' 10" and ride a 56cm trek & Chris @velobulld said an XL on the 218 would fit me & I checked out bikegeometry would be the correct one & I'm checking to see what sizes people on here have ordered & their height
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Finally bookmark or print this page
https://www.bikeride.com/torque-specifications/
I was looking for something like this! great! thanks!
What's your height ?
I'm 5' 10" and ride a 56cm trek & Chris @velobulld said an XL on the 218 would fit me & I checked out bikegeometry would be the correct one & I'm checking to see what sizes people on here have ordered & their height
I am 185cm (6' 1" I guess..) He suggested XL as well.
But my arms are long and I am a bit flexible. I also compared the size with my current bike and then I went for L size.
Btw, I selected longer stem 120mm.
I'm not sure where you are located but here in USA I just went to Harbor Freight (cheap hardware store chain) and bought a ~$20 torque wrench that has been working just great for over a year now. I have to do the conversion from in-lb to nm every time but it's no big deal. No need to buy an expensive one, even a beam torque wrench will do the job for a bike purposes.
I'm from Belgium (Brussels). thanks for the suggestion
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...I'm from Belgium (Brussels)...
Oh really... I'm just a few mm below on a map 8)
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Oh really... I'm just a few mm below on a map 8)
Hehe in what scale :D Are you from Waterloo, Charleroi or .. ? :D
Would be nice to meet once the frame is ready to ride!
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I'm not sure where you are located but here in USA I just went to Harbor Freight (cheap hardware store chain) and bought a ~$20 torque wrench that has been working just great for over a year now. I have to do the conversion from in-lb to nm every time but it's no big deal. No need to buy an expensive one, even a beam torque wrench will do the job for a bike purposes.
Be careful of some of that stuff from Harbor Freight. I have bought stuff there in the past & I do get some cheap stuff there (tarps/bins/clips etc), but you are correct even a beam torque as shipped with Canyon bikes will work.
I know for a fact their mitre saws etc are not set up correctly & the last tile saw I bought was all over the map & did not last long.
For some of my tools I use Milwaukee for my home projects for the bike stuff I usually go with ParkTool or Pro Bike tool as posted above, well mainly because I can't afford to buy another trek bike ;D
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Be careful of some of that stuff from Harbor Freight. I have bought stuff there in the past & I do get some cheap stuff there (tarps/bins/clips etc), but you are correct even a beam torque as shipped with Canyon bikes will work.
I know for a fact their mitre saws etc are not set up correctly & the last tile saw I bought was all over the map & did not last long.
For some of my tools I use Milwaukee for my home projects for the bike stuff I usually go with ParkTool or Pro Bike tool as posted above, well mainly because I can't afford to buy another trek bike ;D
Oh of course. I've been a victim to some of their cheap stuff and know some things at Harbor Freight are just a waste of money, but for $20 I figured what the heck, I'll give it a shot. No complaints yet!
I'm slowly but surely building up my bin of proprietary bike tools and a nicer (and smaller) torque wrench is definitely in my future ;D
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I am super excited, I just noticed that my L frame was shipped this afternoon..
but now worried as well. After seeing the BottomBracket issue on the youtube video ( https://youtu.be/-K3F-d4MlBY?t=2074 (https://youtu.be/-K3F-d4MlBY?t=2074) ) Hope mine arrives with a better-aligned frame.
So anyone else have BB issues yet?
Weird to me that GC's videos were made private after this guy posted his video.
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i believe since he so close to the industry he probly received a letter from pinarello. I know the weekend after his vid went live velobuild pulled the frame for that Saturday and Sunday. Apparently they worked it out. i placed my order on the 9/2/2021. An after i seen the vid a friend of mine try to order and they were out of stock. "chris " from velo gave me the 411 and said they were working on it.
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So anyone else have BB issues yet?
Weird to me that GC's videos were made private after this guy posted his video.
I have the same issue. A hair off and cannot put the crank through. I put the driver side first and use the crank as the guide to put the other side BB cap. Running was smooth after the install so it is only slightly off for mine. Mine was the budget build. 105 group set , elite disc wheel, Rubino pro tubeless, I used hybrid mech hydraulic brake caliber and it works great. Total cost is less than $2k including shipping and tax.
Will use the risk routing tool from ali and it helps a lot. Get torque wrench from HF and it works fine.
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So anyone else have BB issues yet?
Weird to me that GC's videos were made private after this guy posted his video.
Mine’s fine. Not as smooth as my prior frame with a thread fit BB into a pressfit shell. But it does spin smooth enough.
I got a different issue, though. After a few rides I noticed cracks around the seatpost clamping area. Now I did make sure to have at least 10cm of seatpost inserted. I used a calibrated torque wrench from PRO and tightened it to 4nm. The upside is: Chris and VB were quick to assure me that the frame would be replaced under warranty. I am now waiting for a replacement and it should be shipped any day now. Hope that one will hold up better.
Apart from that, I loved the fit and particularly the handling and cornering feel. The steep head angle and low BB feel really great.
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I have the same issue. A hair off and cannot put the crank through. I put the driver side first and use the crank as the guide to put the other side BB cap. Running was smooth after the install so it is only slightly off for mine. Mine was the budget build. 105 group set , elite disc wheel, Rubino pro tubeless, I used hybrid mech hydraulic brake caliber and it works great. Total cost is less than $2k including shipping and tax.
Will use the risk routing tool from ali and it helps a lot. Get torque wrench from HF and it works fine.
i assume this this may be common but not to major. special for what was paid for the frame. small things like that i expect.
Mine’s fine. Not as smooth as my prior frame with a thread fit BB into a pressfit shell. But it does spin smooth enough.
I got a different issue, though. After a few rides I noticed cracks around the seatpost clamping area. Now I did make sure to have at least 10cm of seatpost inserted. I used a calibrated torque wrench from PRO and tightened it to 4nm. The upside is: Chris and VB were quick to assure me that the frame would be replaced under warranty. I am now waiting for a replacement and it should be shipped any day now. Hope that one will hold up better.
Apart from that, I loved the fit and particularly the handling and cornering feel. The steep head angle and low BB feel really great.
This what I'm glad to here about at the end of the day. side note @sebastian how is the fit. if I remeber your a tall rider.
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i assume this this may be common but not to major. special for what was paid for the frame. small things like that i expect. This what I'm glad to here about at the end of the day. side note @sebastian how is the fit. if I remeber your a tall rider.
The fit is very nice in fact. I like the steep head and seat angle. It makes for a position well above the BB which I like. And also very direct steering despite my 120mm stem. So direct is the steering in fact that I think it would be too nervous for my liking with a shorter stem. I particularly like the handlebar shape. I find it very comfy especially in the drops. The reach is a tad shorter than on my previous frame but I don’t feel cramped so all good. It does even make it easier for me to ride in an aero position with horizontal forearms since I can rest my arms better on the bars. I do have more toe overlap. But at my height and with my shoe size I do get this on all road bikes to some degree. I’ve learned to live with it and it’s basically never an issue.
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I ordered my VB-R-218 in size XXL with the 110/42 cockpit on August 20, with a September 5 ship date and September 13 arrival in Texas. My intention was to use it as a frame for all of the spare parts I've been collecting in my garage to use as a fun project bike.
I spent yesterday building it up, and it's now mostly complete. I was worried about the shifting quality with the full internal routing -- enough that I actually started researching buying a Rival eTap groupset before I built up the bike, negating the entire purpose of even beginning this project -- but I powered through and I'm pleased to say the shifting is superb. Running both hydraulic brakes and mechanical shifting through the headset was a royal pain, but now that it's done I'm happy with the results. Handlebars rotate just fine with everything bundled up in there, and the shifting is just as smooth as my bikes with more relaxed cable routing.
It was a little tough to get the bottom bracket threaded in. There was a ton of paint in the threads that I had to carefully scrape out because it was preventing me from even getting the threads engaged, but after an hour I was able to finally get the bottom bracket installed. I haven't noticed any friction or problems rotating the cranks, so I'm hopeful everything turns out to be aligned well enough.
The only problem I have so far is that after several hours of tinkering, I can't get the hydraulic brakes aligned at all using the normal tricks. The scraping is much more severe than I've experienced from any of the other bikes I've built, and I suspect the mounts need to be faced. I ordered the Hayes brake alignment tool to see if that will help, but if not I'll pop into my LBS to get them faced. I just want to fully exhaust all attempts to do it myself since they're an authorized Pinarello dealer. Maybe they won't care, or maybe they'll be totally offended and toss me out. We'll see.
Component list:
- R7000 105 mechanical groupset, including 172.5 mm crank with 4iiii power meter
- Giant PR2 wheelset
- Continental GP5000 tires, 700x25
- Bontrager tubes
- Proxim W350 saddle
- Jagwire shift cables
- RS500 SPD SL pedals, sitting in the garage not installed yet
Definitely not lightweight. In its current state without pedals, it's 8.76 kg. The RS500 pedals are about 320g, and when I install the water bottle cages that arrive tomorrow that will tip me well over the 9 kg mark. Definitely not concerned about weight since this is a spare parts build, but depending on how it rides I could see myself swapping the wheelset out with something a little more svelt sometime in the future.
Once I can get the brakes to the point where the wheels turn without waking up the neighbors, I'll report back on ride quality.
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Very nice paint job above.
Did you do that or was it done at the factory ? .... Also I think you may need handlebar tape, which you should be able to buy at the local shop, which should carry Pinarello/Most handlebar tape ;D
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Velobuild painted it. I found a picture of a VB-R-099 that I thought looked decent -- http://ueeshop.ly200-cdn.com/u_file/UPAB/UPAB004/2010/photo/e47e33d856.jpg -- so I asked Chris if they could reproduce that on the VB-R-218. There are some areas where the paint is a little uneven where two colors meet, but it's much better than anything I could do myself.
Sometimes I think I should have gone with something a little crazier, like gold and green (green for the money, gold for the honey) or maybe one of those chameleon paint jobs, but I suppose this simple and understated color scheme is the safer option.
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Looking at the photos, actually, gold with black/grey looks quite good! 8) Gold/MatteDarkGreen should match nicely as well.
I'll get matte black, but I'll soon start thinking about some gold color combinations ;D
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Mad some updates to my bike. I got sram red power meter crank from pro’s closet for less than forces crank. I also went with cheaper wheel set and got the elite drive wheels and using tpu tubes. The bike now weighs 7.95kg. Picture is with forces crank which looks better.
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Mad some updates to my bike. I got sram red power meter crank from pro’s closet for less than forces crank. I also went with cheaper wheel set and got the elite drive wheels and using tpu tubes. The bike now weighs 7.95kg. Picture is with forces crank which looks better.
It looks perfect! 8)
Are they 50mm deep wheels or deeper?
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Oh, there is an actual product called Juin Tech....... I thought the earlier poster had made a typo ;D
I looked up the campagnolo manuals for servicing & it seems like either the sram force woukd be the easier install or the campy rim brakes would be easier to maintain
Frankly, in all my years of riding I have never had an issues with rim's, though my first & only carbon madone now has disc brakes
Elite Wheels ordered. SRAM Force Etap ordered. Need BB, cassette and bar tape.
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Heyo ppl
I am about to order the frameset and am unsure about sizing ::)
I normally ride a 2019 canyon aeroad cf sl rim brake bike in size m. Am 182cm saddle height is 77cm and stem has 2 cm spacers under it.
Used geometry geeks and everything but still unsure…
Vb-r218 in m with a 40-120 or 110 stem
Or vb-218 in l with a 40-100 stem.
Which option would you recommend. Am flexible.
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Heyo ppl
I am about to order the frameset and am unsure about sizing ::)
I normally ride a 2019 canyon aeroad cf sl rim brake bike in size m. Am 182cm saddle height is 77cm and stem has 2 cm spacers under it.
Used geometry geeks and everything but still unsure…
Vb-r218 in m with a 40-120 or 110 stem
Or vb-218 in l with a 40-100 stem.
Which option would you recommend. Am flexible.
Here you go. I compared 4 sizes for you with your current Canyon CF-SL 2019
https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/velobuild-vb-r-218-2022-525-xl,velobuild-vb-r-218-2022-520-l,canyon-aeroad-cf-sl-7-0-2019-m,velobuild-vb-r-218-2022-510-m/
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Elite Wheels ordered. SRAM Force Etap ordered. Need BB, cassette and bar tape.
What BB are you specifying when ordering the frame ?
I'm a little confused at the selection of types
I haven't ordered the frame as yet as I am still in 2 minds on what exactly I want to build. I know sure it will be the vbr-218 frame
1. VBR-218 + Campagnolo Record Groupset + Rim brakes
- Ease of maintenance
- Campy's durability
- Probably harder install with multiple cables (mechanical groupset)
- Lower cost
- Less stress when dumping bike in car. I'm always afraid of damaging my madone
- Easier wheel removal
2. VBR-218 + SRAM Force AXS + Disc brakes (the force groupset is much more expensive)
- Ease of install
- I don't know anything about brake bleeding, though since the Madone has the sram force, I would just need one kit
- Cleaner install/look
Maybe we need a poll on here for rim vs disc for this frame ?
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What BB are you specifying when ordering the frame ?
I'm a little confused at the selection of types
I haven't ordered the frame as yet as I am still in 2 minds on what exactly I want to build. I know sure it will be the vbr-218 frame
1. VBR-218 + Campagnolo Record Groupset + Rim brakes
- Ease of maintenance
- Campy's durability
- Probably harder install with multiple cables (mechanical groupset)
- Lower cost
- Less stress when dumping bike in car. I'm always afraid of damaging my madone
- Easier wheel removal
2. VBR-218 + SRAM Force AXS + Disc brakes (the force groupset is much more expensive)
- Ease of install
- I don't know anything about brake bleeding, though since the Madone has the sram force, I would just need one kit
- Cleaner install/look
Maybe we need a poll on here for rim vs disc for this frame ?
I'd go with opt 2 I don't know how cable friendly this frame is. I'm still waiting on mine to come in. I'm going di2 11 speed. elite wheels 55 depth. i already strip down my old setup. the frame been in shipping since last week. I'm shooting for 17lbs form the items i weight already only thing I dont know for sure is frame weight.
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What BB are you specifying when ordering the frame ?
I'm a little confused at the selection of types
I haven't ordered the frame as yet as I am still in 2 minds on what exactly I want to build. I know sure it will be the vbr-218 frame
1. VBR-218 + Campagnolo Record Groupset + Rim brakes
- Ease of maintenance
- Campy's durability
- Probably harder install with multiple cables (mechanical groupset)
- Lower cost
- Less stress when dumping bike in car. I'm always afraid of damaging my madone
- Easier wheel removal
2. VBR-218 + SRAM Force AXS + Disc brakes (the force groupset is much more expensive)
- Ease of install
- I don't know anything about brake bleeding, though since the Madone has the sram force, I would just need one kit
- Cleaner install/look
Maybe we need a poll on here for rim vs disc for this frame ?
I went with option 1. Mainly because I already have a collection of rim brake wheels and I had the Campy groupset already. Mechanical routing on this frame is doable. Honestly I thought it was going to be way worse. Also, this Frameset is really heavy and in its rim brake version despite being the largest size, it’s below 8kg including pedals and accessories. I can get it down to 7.6 with my lightest wheels. And the terrain makes a difference IMO. My rides are predominantly flat so overheating my carbon rims is just not an issue. I have basically no rim wear and a set of pads lasts ages.
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https://youtu.be/yCAJ9oNkv7o
GC performance review
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https://youtu.be/yCAJ9oNkv7o
GC performance review
Having ridden both my VB-177 and VB-168 for some time now, I share the same exact sentiments of GC Performance.
Sluggish but overall a good value for the price. You probably wont get dropped from a fast group ride or lose any competitions solely because of a VeloBuild frame, and I don't think anyone really expects the frame to truly compete with frames ridden by professionals, enthusiasts, and dentists alike.
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It looks perfect! 8)
Are they 50mm deep wheels or deeper?
yes they are 50mm deep great set of wheels.
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Having ridden both my VB-177 and VB-168 for some time now, I share the same exact sentiments of GC Performance.
Sluggish but overall a good value for the price. You probably wont get dropped from a fast group ride or lose any competitions solely because of a VeloBuild frame, and I don't think anyone really expects the frame to truly compete with frames ridden by professionals, enthusiasts, and dentists alike.
pretty much my expectations but the fact the his tire pressure is so high. all in all not a bad review. @patliean1whens the next vid?
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Having ridden both my VB-177 and VB-168 for some time now, I share the same exact sentiments of GC Performance.
Sluggish but overall a good value for the price. You probably wont get dropped from a fast group ride or lose any competitions solely because of a VeloBuild frame, and I don't think anyone really expects the frame to truly compete with frames ridden by professionals, enthusiasts, and dentists alike.
Wait are you saying that the 218 feels sluggish to the 168 and 177 or they all feel stiff and sluggish?
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Wait are you saying that the 218 feels sluggish to the 168 and 177 or they all feel stiff and sluggish?
i think he means all
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i think he means all
Ah probably. I am still on strong pain meds, recovering from surgery. I am not at my sharpest. I mean they will all be awesome bikes to me. But if there significant difference difference between two. I am thinking about going for the 218 over the 168. So I was like this is important info if there is a difference. If one feels better that the one I want to go with.
Edit: so thinking about it, We should be asking where are these land in comparability to other bikes. If its not equal or close to a f12.... is it closer to an f10? k10? Prince? So on and so forth. How much value are we actually getting. but it preforms like a much lower end bike such as a $2500 bike. Is it worth saving 500 for the headaches and troubles.
I mean if it preforms between the f10 and f12 its totally worth it.
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Looks like we got a new video up about quality from the diabetic cyclist. Race is a little surprising, little... but face the disc mount is not. How ever they can face the bb mount to make sure they are parallel. Also I would check for rubbing on the inside.
https://youtu.be/IDLDHrArPu0
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I went with option 1. Mainly because I already have a collection of rim brake wheels and I had the Campy groupset already. Mechanical routing on this frame is doable. Honestly I thought it was going to be way worse. Also, this Frameset is really heavy and in its rim brake version despite being the largest size, it’s below 8kg including pedals and accessories. I can get it down to 7.6 with my lightest wheels. And the terrain makes a difference IMO. My rides are predominantly flat so overheating my carbon rims is just not an issue. I have basically no rim wear and a set of pads lasts ages.
Hi, a few questions on your rim brake build
1. What wheels did you use ?
2. Which campy groupset did you go with ?
3. When ordering the frame for rim, what options did you select for bottom bracket & brake mounts ?
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Having ridden both my VB-177 and VB-168 for some time now, I share the same exact sentiments of GC Performance.
Sluggish but overall a good value for the price. You probably wont get dropped from a fast group ride or lose any competitions solely because of a VeloBuild frame, and I don't think anyone really expects the frame to truly compete with frames ridden by professionals, enthusiasts, and dentists alike.
Can you define "sluggish" or add more context ?
I went from a dura-alloy 2005 Fuji to a 2021 Madone SL-7 eTap and that is my first and only carbon bike till date and it flies and I'm not even that strong of a cyclist.
I guess to me, any carbon frame would feel fast & I would expect any build on this frame to be less than my current 19.2lbs for the sl7
I'm surprised the earlier poster with the rim brake build/campy groupset clocked in @8kg/17.63lbs, which is light than my current bike
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Hi, a few questions on your rim brake build
1. What wheels did you use ?
2. Which campy groupset did you go with ?
3. When ordering the frame for rim, what options did you select for bottom bracket & brake mounts ?
1. I got 60mm deep tubular wheels from Aliexpress which weigh a stupidly light 1300g. With those wheels I get the bike down to 7.65kg ready to ride. With my heavier clincher wheels it weighs 7.9kg.
2. The majority of the groupset is Campagnolo Centaur which IMO is very good value for money. Particularly because I like the down sweeping shifting paddles. Crankset is a very lightweight Campagnolo H11 (which is equivalent to Record). Brakes are Record because I needed direct mount and those were the only available brakes. They're not particularly lightweight @320g the pair.
3. I wasn't aware there was a choice. The frame is spec'd with a BSA threaded BB and mounting points for direct mount brakes. This - next to other things - was the reason I chose it.
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https://youtu.be/yCAJ9oNkv7o
GC performance review
Not much to see here, is there? He likes his Tarmac SL7 better than a 500 USD Velobuild-frame. Well, it better feel better than a VB-frame with that price tag. And I don't think anyone of us would expect this frame to compete with bikes with 5digit price tags.
About it being sluggish and less stiff. For what it's worth, this sounds pretty similar to the review that Cyclingtips did after one year of riding the actual Dogma F. They found it to feel harsh and criticized seat tube flex.
I don't think subjective ride impressions are worth much because everyone has a different frame of reference. To me, coming from a Ridley Helium frame, this frame definitely doesn't lack stiffness. And I always felt that most of the "snappiness" when sprinting or accelerating is coming from the wheels and how heavy they are, unless the frame is a complete noodle.
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Hi Sebastian. Definitely agree regarding most of the ‘snappiness’ coming from the wheel set. Would be interesting to see his thoughts if he used the Rovals from the SL7!
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For 3x the price as those hypers. they better make it snappy.
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I got the brake mounts faced last week, finished getting everything adjusted, and put 80km on the VB-R-218 over the weekend.
I'm not going to make any claims that I'm the most discerning rider, but I haven't found it to be sluggish or harsh. The final ready-to-ride weight[1] comes in at a whopping 9.945 kg, a full kg heavier than my Giant Defy and 1.5 kg more than my Canyon Ultimate in similar configurations, but it feels snappier than the Defy because of the steeper head angle, and is just as much fun as the Ultimate. If I hadn't seen the numbers on the scale, there's nothing about the ride that would make me think I'm riding a battleship.
My only complaint so far is that I decided not to wrap the cables with foam -- I've never had to on my other bikes, so I decided to forgo it with this build as well -- and that was a huge mistake. On the first ride the noise was distracting, but on the second ride I was more used to it. The internal cable routing was enough of a pain that I'm not going to take it apart to wrap the cables, but once the cables snap and I need to replace them, I will be putting in foam liners.
[1] Ready-to-ride includes pedals, saddle bag with repair kit, bottle cages, Wahoo, and lights, but not the water itself.
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How can you even use the word sluggish, without comparing it to a frame 5x the price???
What does sluggish mean?
If you want to compare this bike, please compare it to a similarly priced bike. You cannot pay 2000USD , and expect it to ride like a 15 000USD bike.
Nobody buys a Toyota corolla ( no offense) and expects it to drive like a Lamborghini.
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Normally I'd agree with you but most people (including me) are curious how it fares against a frame costing 6k since...you know...it's inspired by a frame that's selling for 6k.
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With that said, obviously it will feel sluggish compared to a frame that costs 10x the price, but i dont think its fair to velobuild, or any of these brands, to say their frame is sluggish.
I think it's important to use precise language. It is sluggish compared to the pinarello, not compared to frames in the same price range.
I hope I am coming off clearly..
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Nobody buys a Toyota corolla ( no offense) and expects it to drive like a Lamborghini.
I can show you the 75+ messages/emails I've received over the past 6 months, of people straight up asking me how my VeloBuild bikes (Corolla) compares to my Winspace T1500 (not quite a Lamborghini, maybe an Audi). No one EVER asks me about my Dengfu R12 which is a better comparison to VeloBuild.
No matter how obvious it is that a $500 frame is not competing with a $1500 frame, let alone $4000 SL7 expert frame, confirmation bias (and sometimes delusion) is still very real.
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I totally agree with the confirmation bias.
I should have stated,
You SHOULDN'T compare a Toyota to a Lamborghini. Enjoy your Toyota, its a great car, but not a supercar.
And that's ok.
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For me the brand new toyota (velobuild) is the nicest car I'd have ridden to date
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Did any of you guys have any issues with
1. Misaligned FD/RD holes ?
2. Paint in BB or alignment issues ?
3. Fork flex ?
4. Bolt/nut inside BB that needed to be filed or was hitting the crank ?
Based on above earlier responses, it does look like a rim/campy would be easier for me to build as a first bike & maintain
I have no clue about the toyota/audi/lambo comparisons as I would expect any carbon frame to be lighter than an alloy one & if we put the vbr-218 frame next to a dogma f and use the exact same components on each bike & the only difference being the 218 would be heavier by 300 -500 gm than the dogma, then given the same rider & riding conditions I would expect them to be equal in performance
Of-course my above comment may be totally ignorant, but in my head I see this as a piece of carbon that is painted or unfinished being propelled forward by a pair of legs
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You SHOULDN'T compare a Toyota to a Lamborghini. Enjoy your Toyota, its a great car, but not a supercar.
From what I can tell Winspace has better finishing and QC/QA but not better construction. Slightly different things, So the ones that make it out of the factory Are less likely to be flawed. Thats why you are paying more for the winspace. As far as I can tell from videos and blogs and what not. winspace uses the same types of carbon as VB. And are these more like corvette? very sporty got some punch but not as BA as lambo. The toyoda is more the sub 1k bikes you can pick up. That are very decent but are not going super fast. Well ok, maybe a high-end supra if we are going to call them toyodas. Corrvette or supra
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... it does look like a rim/campy would be easier for me to build as a first bike & maintain...
I have no clue about the toyota/audi/lambo comparisons ...
The learning curve is steeper for disc brakes.
But after sone misses and youtube vids, you'll know how it works.
Never had any of the issues you listed on many frames.
The most annoying though is misaligned brake mounts.
So common that I finally bought the tool to face them.
For the car metaphor.
For road bikes, since I descend often at 80-90km/h when possible, I psychologically preferred to rely on branded frames.
I did ride for few years a Canyon Ultimate CF-SLX, fine.
When a tube cracked just before a big Alpine event, I converted my Carbonda CFR-505 to a road bike, it did ride as fine.
Then got back the Canyon finally replaced, and didn't notice any significant difference.
I moved to an Aethos S-Works now, and... it is fine too. Again not a revolution either, except maybe the number of people telling me how nice my bike is :D
Each time however they were equipped with hi-end electronic shifting and hydro disc brakes and very good wheels and tires.
Most of us will be happy with the bike they build from a reputable seller here.
And for me the equipment and wheels/tires is what makes the bike.
I'm not convinced the frame is that important.
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The learning curve is steeper for disc brakes.
But after sone misses and youtube vids, you'll know how it works.
Never had any of the issues you listed on many frames.
The most annoying though is misaligned brake mounts.
So common that I finally bought the tool to face them.
Could you let me know what tool you used for the misaligned brake mounts on the vbr-218 (I'm assuming you had the issue on the 218 (rim or disc?))
For the disc stuff, I know that eventually I will have to bleed the brakes on the trek madone & at some point I will learn how to do that.
Canyon's are pretty nice, my wife is riding the canyon aeroroad, though she does not like the shimano 105 groupset (non-Di2), compared to her old campy chorus groupset from 2005
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...From what I can tell Winspace has better finishing and QC/QA but not better construction...
For me they are just better at marketing.
They put their brand on the frame.
They flood youtube influencers with samples.
Trifox is kind of similar for MTB.
And put the prices higher.
I really like the nerdy side of this forum about finding cheap but good parts and helping each other to build their dream bike.
But this corruption of perceptions that started a year or so ago annoys me.
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Time to hang the do not disturb sign on the door. My friend finally came in.
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Could you let me know what tool you used for the misaligned brake mounts on the vbr-218 (I'm assuming you had the issue on the 218 (rim or disc?))
For the disc stuff, I know that eventually I will have to bleed the brakes on the trek madone & at some point I will learn how to do that.
Canyon's are pretty nice, my wife is riding the canyon aeroroad, though she does not like the shimano 105 groupset (non-Di2), compared to her old campy chorus groupset from 2005
This one: https://www.vartools.uk/disc-brake-mount-facing-tool-c2x36007373
The investment doesn't make any sense to build just one bike.
I've never built a Velobuild. But many others and almost always disc.
We should all unionise and tell all sellers here: we only buy if you have the mount faced ! 8)
I can understand your wife! I moved my Campy EPS 12sp from the Canyon to the Aethos. No other group convinced me to switch.
Although I'm a huge fan of Eagle AXS for MTB and as a mullet for gravels.
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I really like the nerdy side of this forum about finding cheap but good parts and helping each other to build their dream bike.
But this corruption of perceptions that started a year or so ago annoys me.
I do believe there is a ton better marketing, true. From what I can see there is a lack of horror stories about misaligned BB inserts, disc brake mounts, seat tube issues, axle alignment, and what not. Which denotes better qc/qa. Like I am hearing from VB or TT. With VB beating out tt with finish and quality by a lot. I am saying winspace has better QA/QC and finishing. So there are no major issues. But I can buy 2-3 frames for the price of ws frame.
ANd I would just find a LBS that could face the parts I needed. BB, disc, etc. probably cost you 50 bucks max.
Though one tool would be nice to have is a BB tread tap.
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This one: https://www.vartools.uk/disc-brake-mount-facing-tool-c2x36007373
The investment doesn't make any sense to build just one bike.
I've never built a Velobuild. But many others and almost always disc.
We should all unionise and tell all sellers here: we only buy if you have the mount faced ! 8)
I can understand your wife! I moved my Campy EPS 12sp from the Canyon to the Aethos. No other group convinced me to switch.
Although I'm a huge fan of Eagle AXS for MTB and as a mullet for gravels.
I looked at the tool.....and feared for my wallet & safety (wife)
At this point I already have a large collection of ParkTools & other stuff
Ok so I think I will go for the rim option & campy recordset sometime in December & leave it matte black/unfinished
I saw a few videos on painting & I think a can of Dupli-color Shift will give that frame a very nice shimmer just the Trek Project One bikes with the color changing scheme
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I looked at the tool.....and feared for my wallet & safety (wife)
Ok so I think I will go for the rim option & campy recordset sometime in December & leave it matte black/unfinished
Just find a local bike shop with the tool. and have them do it. You dont need all the tools even though you want all of them.
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...Though one tool would be nice to have is a BB tread tap.
I got them in a bundle of tools from a bike shop that went bankrupt.
And never used them in 5+ years.
As you just said, probably one you don't need either.
But I agree they look nice :)
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I got them in a bundle of tools from a bike shop that went bankrupt.
And never used them in 5+ years.
As you just said, probably one you don't need either.
But I agree they look nice :)
I mean seems like these frames would be one of the few times you might need it to face the shell/insert. But I was talking more having the threading tool to chase threads. And for some reason all my bikes are BSA BB. ANd if I get the 218. I will have another.
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...But I was talking more having the threading tool to chase threads...
Me too I guess.
If you are afraid of cross threading, just turn the cup in reverse while pressing it lightly against the frame, until you feel a click when the thread engage.
Then screw them in, but never ever force when doing this, as you may trying to put the right cup on the left side for instance, or a little misaligned. And put some grease.
The same applies to bottle cage and brake caliper screws, they are steel while the hole is generally soft alloy.
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Well apparently The conversation is on track for my issue right now. The reason I haven't posted. I've been anything on my bill is because I have paint in my bottom bracket. So I had to send my money to the bike shop today so they can clean out the threads for the bottom bracket. Hopefully I can finish this afternoon.
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We're done
specs:
frame size: xxl
groupset shimano: di2 6770 shifters, 8050 FD, 6870RD, x11el chain 11 speed 52/36 11-28
wheelset: elite 55mm gp5000 rubber, 28mm front 32mmrear
saddle fizik saddle arione r3 open
brakes: jun tech F1
garmin mount, 4iii single side powermeter, fizik bartape 2x (double rap) look keo classic cleats.garmin rear radar
wt8.98kg 19.80lbs
lighter then my old aluminum bike (giant anyroad)same gear 23 pounds
issues I had bottom bracket had paint in it bike shop hound it out was good after that. First time doing a fully internal build and the guys who did cable brakes and gears you have passions.
Im 6'4" 193cm 235 lbs 106.6 kg
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@kongo
Very nice build. Thanks for sharing the pix.
What height are you for the XXL frame size ? I'm 5' 10" & Chris@velo recommended an XL for this frame for me
For your next build, if you have paint issues again, this video was pretty good
Cleaning Bottom Bracket Threads With Basic Tools
https://youtu.be/FYfT_xP-BZE
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@kongo
Very nice build. Thanks for sharing the pix.
What height are you for the XXL frame size ? I'm 5' 10" & Chris@velo recommended an XL for this frame for me
For your next build, if you have paint issues again, this video was pretty good
Cleaning Bottom Bracket Threads With Basic Tools
https://youtu.be/FYfT_xP-BZE
6'4" but I only have 70mm of seat post in frame. bars are 420/110
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@kongo
Very nice build. Thanks for sharing the pix.
What height are you for the XXL frame size ? I'm 5' 10" & Chris@velo recommended an XL for this frame for me
For your next build, if you have paint issues again, this video was pretty good
Cleaning Bottom Bracket Threads With Basic Tools
https://youtu.be/FYfT_xP-BZE
He said he is 6'4
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wheelset: elite 55mm gp5000 rubber, 28mm front 32mm rear
Does 32mm fits without issue??
I was planning to do the similar, 25mm-front/28mm-rear or 28mm-front/32mm-rear (for bad roads..)
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Got my frame yesterday, luckily everything seems to look okay, put my BB in pretty easily too. Only thing is there's a bunch of glue leftover on the steerer tube that'll need to be sanded down.
Matte black looks much better than I thought it would. Can't wait to build it when everything comes in.
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Only thing is there's a bunch of glue leftover on the steerer tube that'll need to be sanded down.
Are you sure that's "glue"? Actually, never mind...
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Does 32mm fits without issue??
I was planning to do the similar, 25mm-front/28mm-rear or 28mm-front/32mm-rear (for bad roads..)
Yes I have a 32 on rear clear no problem
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Got my frame yesterday, luckily everything seems to look okay, put my BB in pretty easily too. Only thing is there's a bunch of glue leftover on the steerer tube that'll need to be sanded down.
Matte black looks much better than I thought it would. Can't wait to build it when everything comes in.
Did you get a actual paint job or is it their primer?
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Got my frame yesterday, luckily everything seems to look okay, put my BB in pretty easily too. Only thing is there's a bunch of glue leftover on the steerer tube that'll need to be sanded down.
Matte black looks much better than I thought it would. Can't wait to build it when everything comes in.
Did it come In with that blob on it? If so, it seems kind of suspect.
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Are you sure that's "glue"? Actually, never mind...
I hope it's glue ;)
Did you get a actual paint job or is it their primer?
No paint job, just the basic matte black frame
Did it come In with that blob on it? If so, it seems kind of suspect.
Yeah it came with that blob on it, but it's way above where I'm going to be cutting the steerer tube anyways so it's not a big deal
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OK I'm still in the honeymoon faze. An coming from a 4.5lbs heavier build. how many of you who have the 218 and road on a more expensive bike agree with GC performance review as for as the frame being stiff and not being great at the sprint. granted I'm running 28mm up front and 32 in rear 70 psi up front and 75 in rear. I feel my bike is more comfortable then my aluminum endurance bike. I'm only 35 miles in because of strong winds we have in my area(13-18mph)usually around 6-10. and the juin tech brakes definitely are better then my old advid bb5 brakes.
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OK I'm still in the honeymoon faze. An coming from a 4.5lbs heavier build. how many of you who have the 218 and road on a more expensive bike agree with GC performance review as for as the frame being stiff and not being great at the sprint. granted I'm running 28mm up front and 32 in rear 70 psi up front and 75 in rear. I feel my bike is more comfortable then my aluminum endurance bike. I'm only 35 miles in because of strong winds we have in my area(13-18mph)usually around 6-10. and the juin tech brakes definitely are better then my old advid bb5 brakes.
Why not just run 25mm tires with tubes (GP5000 or Gatorskin) @ set the PSI to 100-110 & just go for it (sprint wise) ?
I had an insane number of flats (15 in a 5 week period) & I think it was mainly due to running at 85psi (I'm 168 lbs). I set the psi to 110 & use Rhinodillo liner tape in the tires & am zipping along at 25mph or lower
My current Trek madone is @ 19.8lbs & from the looks of what people are building on here with this frame & bike at 15-17lbs, I think it would be pretty fast on the straights
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I'm 235lbs i started high(100psi on 32mm gatorskin) and worked my way down. the high psi hand my back killing after 16 miles I'd be done. once i went below 80psi i could go all day long. i will never ride anything smaller then a 28 i love myself to much. unless its a short ride 10miles are less. I had 1 flat on my gp5000 on the rear and 3200 miles and non on the gator skins.
@madmax your street have to smoot a glass. i have to go thru 2.5 miles of cracked and bumpy road to get to the nearest 20 mile bike trail. an if I'm going to do anything longer the 25 mile that means I have to get back on our shit streets. An if your wondering I'm in the greater New Orleans, La area
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I'm 235lbs i started high(100psi on 32mm gatorskin) and worked my way down. the high psi hand my back killing after 16 miles I'd be done. once i went below 80psi i could go all day long. i will never ride anything smaller then a 28 i love myself to much. unless its a short ride 10miles are less. I had 1 flat on my gp5000 on the rear and 3200 miles and non on the gator skins.
@madmax your street have to smoot a glass. i have to go thru 2.5 miles of cracked and bumpy road to get to the nearest 20 mile bike trail. an if I'm going to do anything longer the 25 mile that means I have to get back on our shit streets. An if your wondering I'm in the greater New Orleans, La area
Oh ok. I'm in San Diego & the streets are all over the place here, lots of small stones & glass. I went through a 10 pack of continental tubes 80mm & was about to give up biking when I saw a Youtube video & decided to try a higher psi, so its 110 for me for now, until i start shedding weight.
I guess the majority of the aggravation came from trying to remove & put on the GP5000's. I have never seen a tire that is so miserably hard to remove or put back on.
Have fun on your new bike & post some pix. It's really nice to read about people experiences & see their bikes.
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Oh ok. I'm in San Diego & the streets are all over the place here, lots of small stones & glass. I went through a 10 pack of continental tubes 80mm & was about to give up biking when I saw a Youtube video & decided to try a higher psi, so its 110 for me for now, until i start shedding weight.
I guess the majority of the aggravation came from trying to remove & put on the GP5000's. I have never seen a tire that is so miserably hard to remove or put back on.
Have fun on your new bike & post some pix. It's really nice to read about people experiences & see their bikes.
yea i thought it was just me with gp5000 and removing them from rims. but the absorb the road buss better then the gatorskins. but i could kill the gatorskins i still have a set.
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yea i thought it was just me with gp5000 and removing them from rims. but the absorb the road buss better then the gatorskins. but i could kill the gatorskins i still have a set.
Yeah, this is why the Germans will loose any war..... they won't be able to change their continental tires on their armored vehicles in the field ..... ;D
Very nice pix. Thanks for posting them
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I'm 235lbs i started high(100psi on 32mm gatorskin) and worked my way down. the high psi hand my back killing after 16 miles I'd be done. once i went below 80psi i could go all day long. i will never ride anything smaller then a 28 i love myself to much. unless its a short ride 10miles are less. I had 1 flat on my gp5000 on the rear and 3200 miles and non on the gator skins.
@madmax your street have to smoot a glass. i have to go thru 2.5 miles of cracked and bumpy road to get to the nearest 20 mile bike trail. an if I'm going to do anything longer the 25 mile that means I have to get back on our shit streets. An if your wondering I'm in the greater New Orleans, La area
110psi in a 32mm tire? Wow! That’s crazy high, IMO. I think I only ever used pressure that high in 23mm tires.
I use around 85-87psi in my tubulars (25 front / 28 rear) and even slightly less in my Corsa clinchers with latex tubes (25 front and rear, but 28 measured with) and I’m no flyweight at 82kg. The ride is fast and smooth.
I have no troubles averaging 20mph over long rides and I got all kinds of shit roads here, including cobbles.
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Yeah, this is why the Germans will loose any war..... they won't be able to change their continental tires on their armored vehicles in the field ..... ;D
Very nice pix. Thanks for posting them
The Conti GP5000 is what put me off of tubeless for good. It was near impossible to mount, had casing wobble when I finally had it on and started losing air despite loads of sealant. I was so frustrated, went back to inner tubes after years on tubeless. Schwalbe Pro Ones before that were constantly leaking through the sidewalls. The only tubeless tires to perform reliably are the heavier ones with a thicker vulcanised rubber layer inside but those feel about as supple as a garden hose compared to cotton clinchers. No wonder guys feel they need to run 32mm tires on a road bike.
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I’ve only used tubes and I thought about tubeless……briefly….after a few videos, it’s just too much hassle
Use a good thick tube and liner with gatorskin or tube and gp5000 and it should last a long time
The majority of flats come from incorrect psi, and your body weight pressing down on the tire and a bump will cause a pinch flat as you ride along.
I had really bad knee and back/sciatica pain that went away after I was fitted correctly and switched to a better saddle and shorts with better padding. Correct saddle height will fix a lot of the pain and this is one area where finding a good saddle brand that works for you is worth the money spent on it. I’m using the bontrager Aeolus comp saddle on all my bikes now
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The Conti GP5000 is what put me off of tubeless for good. It was near impossible to mount...
The new GP5000S is very easy to mount compared to the older one. And lighter.
I did put a pair in May and they are at their end of life now. And no puncture in thousands km.
When inspecting the tire recently, it has micro-cuts every cm or two that are apparently sealed (Orange Seal Regular).
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I went from riding Canyon Endurace sl to riding this. My endurace is way more comfortable and i will use it for my 100 mile plus rides. The velobuild 218 is faster and takes less effort to hold speeds as it should since it is a aero bike. I had to change the wheels on the velobuild because the ride was way to harsh with hunt 48 limitless wheels. I don't really sprint much so I can't say much about it being sluggish. I am 5'6" and around 200 pounds riding this frame and I enjoy it will probably enjoy it more when i lose 30 more pounds.
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The new GP5000S is very easy to mount compared to the older one. And lighter.
I did put a pair in May and they are at their end of life now. And no puncture in thousands km.
When inspecting the tire recently, it has micro-cuts every cm or two that are apparently sealed (Orange Seal Regular).
Yeah. I don’t doubt that. I’ve also had very good experiences with Schwalbe‘s regular One (not the pro version). The truth is, however, that at least with current sealants, tubeless just won’t seal properly at road pressures north of 60psi. When you get a proper cut, it fails. And when it does, the only choice you got is to make a complete mess or try to plug your tire. I’ve done both in the past. Plugs are a bit hit and miss. Putting an inner tube in might or might not be a nightmare, depending on how tight the tire sits. But ever since I realised that my tubulars are just as fast and comfy as my tubeless tires, I decided to go back to cotton clinchers and latex tubes and spare myself the pain of dealing with catastrophic tubeless failures at the roadside. I do run tubeless on my gravel bike and on my commuter. I do like it. But on road bikes not anymore.
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How does everyone else store their bike? I usually put mines on my kicker I have limited space in my man cave.
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How does everyone else store their bike? I usually put mines on my kicker I have limited space in my man cave.
I lean mine against the wall and hope it doesn't fall
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i have wall hangers and i keep my families bikes on that.
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So I finished my build last week and I’ve been putting the frame thru its paces. I’ve had few reservations at the start but it’s turning out to be an impressive machine. I’ve had zero issues with the BB fitment and the only thing that needed real attention was making the rear brake housing exit bigger, 3D printing a more robust front deraillure cable exit and sanding/dremeling down the BB paint overspray and protruding rivet.
Major parts include: Sensah 12spd, look keo pedals, elite wheels and aliEx EEbrake replicas. Without the added crap and accessories it came in exactly 7kg (including bottle cages).
One advice I can give to anyone looking to build the frame is keep small files and a dremel handy!
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So I finished my build last week and I’ve been putting the frame thru its paces. I’ve had few reservations at the start but it’s turning out to be an impressive machine. I’ve had zero issues with the BB fitment and the only thing that needed real attention was making the rear brake housing exit bigger, 3D printing a more robust front deraillure cable exit and sanding/dremeling down the BB paint overspray and protruding rivet.
Major parts include: Sensah 12spd, look keo pedals, elite wheels and aliEx EEbrake replicas. Without the added crap and accessories it came in exactly 7kg (including bottle cages).
One advice I can give to anyone looking to build the frame is keep small files and a dremel handy!
Files I get. but a dremel? I mean I like slow and exact.
Also For storage I just picked up a 40 buck mechanics stand from amazon. I was skeptical but its a solid stand. I mean Its no park shop stand. but it was $40. So I am very happy.
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So I finished my build last week and I’ve been putting the frame thru its paces. I’ve had few reservations at the start but it’s turning out to be an impressive machine. I’ve had zero issues with the BB fitment and the only thing that needed real attention was making the rear brake housing exit bigger, 3D printing a more robust front deraillure cable exit and sanding/dremeling down the BB paint overspray and protruding rivet.
Nice!
I agree. I did have the exact same problem with the rear brake exit hole on the top tube. Used a drill and a file.
About the rivet in the BB. My 25mm crank spindle on my Campag crank just about fits without rubbing. So I reckon anyone with a BB30 spindle will have to somehow file it down.
How do you like these fake EEbrakes? I am kind of tempted to try them as they'd save a big chunk of weight over my Record brakes. Then again, not sure I'm willing to take a leap of faith when it comes to braking.
Could you share a picture of the 3D printed cable exit port? I also found the one that is included less than ideal. Would you be able to share the file with me so I can have it printed?
Also like the paintjob!
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Files I get. but a dremel? I mean I like slow and exact.
Also For storage I just picked up a 40 buck mechanics stand from amazon. I was skeptical but its a solid stand. I mean Its no park shop stand. but it was $40. So I am very happy.
I used the dremel to grind away the protruding rivet in the BB area and clean up the overspray in the threads with a wire brush attachment. I started the rivet with a file but it took forever and I saw no risk going at it with a power tool. Besides, you can be quite precise with a rotary tool if you can manage it, and i didnt want to spend filing away rest of my life.
And agree on the stand, working on a bike is nigh impossible without having to suspend the bike in the air at certain points in the build.
Nice!
I agree. I did have the exact same problem with the rear brake exit hole on the top tube. Used a drill and a file.
About the rivet in the BB. My 25mm crank spindle on my Campag crank just about fits without rubbing. So I reckon anyone with a BB30 spindle will have to somehow file it down.
How do you like these fake EEbrakes? I am kind of tempted to try them as they'd save a big chunk of weight over my Record brakes. Then again, not sure I'm willing to take a leap of faith when it comes to braking.
Could you share a picture of the 3D printed cable exit port? I also found the one that is included less than ideal. Would you be able to share the file with me so I can have it printed?
Also like the paintjob!
The EEbrakes I have mixed feelings about - it was a huge pain in the ass to get the rear brake dialed in. The angle which the housing exits the frame isn’t ideal and I ended up having to splice in the more flexible part of the housing meant for inserting into the hood that came with the jagwire compressionless kit to allow the system to move and function correctly. The lever arm of the brakes have a large travel distance (2:1 of the pad travel from what I roughly measured) and It can create a severe kink in the line that causes friction / compliance issues. I have no idea what the long term implication of this set up is but hey it works.
In terms of performance however, paired with Swisstop pads, it’s very authoritative and I like it a lot so far now that it’s set up correctly. I however do live in a city with no notable hills or descents and I haven’t done much in the way of torture testing and thats what Im planning to do next and maybe design and 3D print a brake track cooling duct for fun.
Here is the cable exit STL - https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5552775 - print at 100% infill… you might need to drill the exit hole or take a hot needle and melt a bigger hole to get your cable thru. Lemme know how it works out! I made this cause the original that came with the frame shattered pretty much immediately soon as i started manipulating it.
And thanks about the paintjob - i requested it to be painted like the Lotus Type 33 ;D
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The EEbrakes I have mixed feelings about
Yes, that’s what I’ve heard about these. Also, i can see from the pics how the cable angle might cause problems, especially on the rear.
Just like you, I’m living in a predominantly flat area. So weight saving is not much of a benefit. Also, Campy brakes and levers work exceptionally well together. Super powerful. Setting them up is a breeze. Cut the cable to length, set them up and off you go.
And I just love the look of skeletons.
Thanks so much for the STL file. I’ll give it a try. Mine is still intact. But also I wasn’t happy with the super sharp metal piece that is used to screw the cable port into. It’s biting into the inside of the seat tube. So I bodged it with multiple washers to distribute the pressure against a larger surface area. But I’m still not happy with that solution.
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And I just love the look of skeletons.
Me too.... me too...
I used the dremel to grind away the protruding rivet in the BB area and clean up the overspray in the threads with a wire brush attachment. I started the rivet with a file but it took forever and I saw no risk going at it with a power tool. Besides, you can be quite precise with a rotary tool if you can manage it, and i didnt want to spend filing away rest of my life.
And agree on the stand, working on a bike is nigh impossible without having to suspend the bike in the air at certain points in the build.
Here is the cable exit STL - https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5552775 - print at 100% infill… you might need to drill the exit hole or take a hot needle and melt a bigger hole to get your cable thru. Lemme know how it works out! I made this cause the original that came with the frame shattered pretty much immediately soon as i started manipulating it.
And thanks about the paintjob - i requested it to be painted like the Lotus Type 33 ;D
Ok the rivet for the bb makes sense. ALso cant you order the thru hole from aliex? But I would use PETG or abs even for a temp job. As PLA will bio degrate. and more easily melt in the sun.
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Yes, that’s what I’ve heard about these. Also, i can see from the pics how the cable angle might cause problems, especially on the rear.
Just like you, I’m living in a predominantly flat area. So weight saving is not much of a benefit. Also, Campy brakes and levers work exceptionally well together. Super powerful. Setting them up is a breeze. Cut the cable to length, set them up and off you go.
And I just love the look of skeletons.
Thanks so much for the STL file. I’ll give it a try. Mine is still intact. But also I wasn’t happy with the super sharp metal piece that is used to screw the cable port into. It’s biting into the inside of the seat tube. So I bodged it with multiple washers to distribute the pressure against a larger surface area. But I’m still not happy with that solution.
To be clear - only the setup woes gave me mixed feelings. Its pretty solid now and I'll report back after I've put some significant miles. The build quality is very good for how much I've paid... However I'd be upset if I paid what Cane Creek is asking for full retail. Seems like they've significantly cut costs saved weight with each generation ever since they bought the rights to the design. ;)
That being said, I'll probably swap to the unit you are using as soon as these things start malfunctioning... not taking chances with the brakes!
Also, to make the STL work, you still need the sharp metal piece... maybe ill design something to redistribute that pressure you are speaking of as a second piece to this....
Me too.... me too...
Ok the rivet for the bb makes sense. ALso cant you order the thru hole from aliex? But I would use PETG or abs even for a temp job. As PLA will bio degrate. and more easily melt in the sun.
It was a choice between easily designing and printing something overnight for free and getting to ride the very next morning and ordering on AliEx and paying for shipping and waiting like a month.
Also PLA gets a bad rep for the properties you've mentioned but in order to degrade and take UV damage to failure it would take a quite a long time and neglect. Im not worried about the temperature either as it's also mostly out of direct sunlight/UV, in a mostly occluded area of the bike, and if the weather got anywhere close to the melting point of PLA... lets just say we'd have a bigger environmental disaster to worry about. Besides, if I was really worried about the integrity of the part in question I can swap it out as part of every maintenance cycle like a brake pad as it only takes 5 minutes. Also the most important consideration when choosing materials for me is I was too lazy to swap the filaments :D
I've also purposely overbuilt the parts and printing it at 100% infill should be able to withstand repeated abuse. I'll also report back on how the part holds up over time as its purely assumptions at this point without actual real world use.
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To be clear - only the setup woes gave me mixed feelings. Its pretty solid now and I'll report back after I've put some significant miles. The build quality is very good for how much I've paid... However I'd be upset if I paid what Cane Creek is asking for full retail. Seems like they've significantly cut costs saved weight with each generation ever since they bought the rights to the design. ;)
That being said, I'll probably swap to the unit you are using as soon as these things start malfunctioning... not taking chances with the brakes!
Also, to make the STL work, you still need the sharp metal piece... maybe ill design something to redistribute that pressure you are speaking of as a second piece to this....
It was a choice between easily designing and printing something overnight for free and getting to ride the very next morning and ordering on AliEx and paying for shipping and waiting like a month.
Also PLA gets a bad rep for the properties you've mentioned but in order to degrade and take UV damage to failure it would take a quite a long time and neglect. Im not worried about the temperature either as it's also mostly out of direct sunlight/UV, in a mostly occluded area of the bike, and if the weather got anywhere close to the melting point of PLA... lets just say we'd have a bigger environmental disaster to worry about. Besides, if I was really worried about the integrity of the part in question I can swap it out as part of every maintenance cycle like a brake pad as it only takes 5 minutes. Also the most important consideration when choosing materials for me is I was too lazy to swap the filaments :D
I've also purposely overbuilt the parts and printing it at 100% infill should be able to withstand repeated abuse. I'll also report back on how the part holds up over time as its purely assumptions at this point without actual real world use.
If you leave your bike in the car, its going to melt the pla. Trust me I tries a number of prints in the car. I now do abs or petg for higher temp. and yes uv damage. but it will brake down on its own too.
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If you leave your bike in the car, its going to melt the pla. Trust me I tries a number of prints in the car. I now do abs or petg for higher temp. and yes uv damage. but it will brake down on its own too.
Again, not a big deal to me as I plan to replace/check on it regularly and I rarely leave my things in state of neglect like leaving my bike in a car-oven. Working with any material is all about making concessions and understanding what you can and cant do with it. PLA is good enough - but if it fails numerous times even with different configuration (like beefing it up and adding more mass) to its shape before i get to do major maintenance on my bike, I will be changing the material. But as of right now I have only one printer and its not set up for printing anything else other then PLA, so thats the way its going to be for now. The worst that can happen if it breaks is that the front derailleur loses tension and I get stuck with a 1X bike till I get home, so its not a catastrophic life or death failure.
Besides, I've made accessories for my car with PLA as well and they held up well for couple of years including a toll-pass holder which pretty much sits right on the windshield in direct sunlight. Its definitely not the same material it started its life as (its more brittle and hard now) but still serves its purpose well.
To the issue of temperature, last time i checked, leaving anything from electronics/bike/your favorite hoodie in your toasty hot car tends to shorten their lifespan considerably. Carbon fiber resin, lubricants, adhesives, bartape, rubbers, gaskets all tend to do poorly outside of their temp range. Just ask my old xbox 360.... it knows. :'(
I understand where you are coming from though and thanks for the concern!
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Besides, I've made accessories for my car with PLA as well and they held up well for couple of years including a toll-pass holder which pretty much sits right on the windshield in direct sunlight. Its definitely not the same material it started its life as (its more brittle and hard now) but still serves its purpose well.
To the issue of temperature, last time i checked, leaving anything from electronics/bike/your favorite hoodie in your toasty hot car tends to shorten their lifespan considerably. Carbon fiber resin, lubricants, adhesives, bartape, rubbers, gaskets all tend to do poorly outside of their temp range. Just ask my old xbox 360.... it knows. :'(
I understand where you are coming from though and thanks for the concern!
Well if you done it before. Maybe environment plays a factor. I live in socal. and lets just say car- oven is about right. I can probably bake cookies or on a hotter day maybe a nice steak.
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i have wall hangers and i keep my families bikes on that.
I built a custom bike shelf in my "home office / bike cave".
I can't wait for my frame and wheels to arrive......the last items needed before the build process.
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I built a custom bike shelf in my "home office / bike cave".
I can't wait for my frame and wheels to arrive......the last items needed before the build process.
Nana nana nana nana.... BIKEMAN!!!!
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Yes, that’s what I’ve heard about these. Also, i can see from the pics how the cable angle might cause problems, especially on the rear.
Just like you, I’m living in a predominantly flat area. So weight saving is not much of a benefit. Also, Campy brakes and levers work exceptionally well together. Super powerful. Setting them up is a breeze. Cut the cable to length, set them up and off you go.
And I just love the look of skeletons.
Thanks so much for the STL file. I’ll give it a try. Mine is still intact. But also I wasn’t happy with the super sharp metal piece that is used to screw the cable port into. It’s biting into the inside of the seat tube. So I bodged it with multiple washers to distribute the pressure against a larger surface area. But I’m still not happy with that solution.
Well yeah that didnt take long. Here is the result from the replica eebrake torture test… A little bit of force off axis and pop goes the retaining c clip flying to my face. Not worth the risk and the time that goes into trying to get these to work!
… on goes the Ultegras…
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Well yeah that didnt take long. Here is the result from the replica eebrake torture test… A little bit of force off axis and pop goes the retaining c clip flying to my face. Not worth the risk and the time that goes into trying to get these to work!
… on goes the Ultegras…
Wow! That happened during a ride? You’re OK, I hope?
I just did a big ride today with some fast descents. It’s good to have faith in your brakes on those.
To reflect what GC Performance said in his review. I feel this frame is on the harsher end but I don’t really find it uncomfortable. It’s noticeably stiffer in the BB area than my previous Helium frame. If I did have to lament a lack of stiffness then it would be in headtube area. It doesn’t really bother me, but it’s a bit more flexy there.
But this bike put a big grin on my face today. Especially whilst descending. I can’t overstate how much I love how this thing handles corners. It feels just so nimble. But, the low BB takes some getting used to. I got 175mm cranks and I clipped my left pedal on the ground once because I started pedalling out of a corner to early. That’s the downside. But it’s worth it because it’s super fun!
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Wow! That happened during a ride? You’re OK, I hope?
Not dead yet, it fell apart while I was checking on it at home... I was testing the bike out on a nearby bridge in town (highest point near me about 100m in elevation) I had to bail after topping out at 30 mph after experiencing some sketchiness. Lets just say the arm was hanging on by dear life by just a c clip clearly not intended for the job. It's thin as you can get with somekind of low grade steel and this is where im guessing they've cut corners. I've noticed this with the washers and bolts as well. The lip that was supposed to retain the clip is also probably not recessed enough as it came apart so easily.
Its a bummer, for sure but Im just glad it didnt happen at speed.
But this bike put a big grin on my face today. Especially whilst descending. I can’t overstate how much I love how this thing handles corners. It feels just so nimble. But, the low BB takes some getting used to. I got 175mm cranks and I clipped my left pedal on the ground once because I started pedalling out of a corner to early. That’s the downside. But it’s worth it because it’s super fun!
Yeah the bike is very nimble and and fun. Its a huge change from my other heavier bikes (gravel and commuter) and I'm pretty happy with the initial impressions.
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Hi guys, what‘s the tire clearance for 218 ?
VBR 168 seems appropriate for allroad (at least 32, vs 177 that can‘t even take 30 plus properly)
I‘m super keen to also order it, but use for road and allroad/light gravel is eminent, living in the Swiss mountains
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Not dead yet, it fell apart while I was checking on it at home... I was testing the bike out on a nearby bridge in town (highest point near me about 100m in elevation) I had to bail after topping out at 30 mph after experiencing some sketchiness. Lets just say the arm was hanging on by dear life by just a c clip clearly not intended for the job. It's thin as you can get with somekind of low grade steel and this is where im guessing they've cut corners.
Well, glad to hear that you didn’t hurt yourself. Just one more example that goes to show that there are some areas on a bike where weight savings shouldn’t really be a priority. Dura Ace brakes are around 280g I believe. I’d have trust issues with everything lighter than that.
It’s just like those silly light brake discs that you can find all over Aliexpress for a couple of quid. Not sure I’d trust those with stopping me safely when doing a fast descent.
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Hi guys, what‘s the tire clearance for 218 ?
VBR 168 seems appropriate for allroad (at least 32, vs 177 that can‘t even take 30 plus properly)
I‘m super keen to also order it, but use for road and allroad/light gravel is eminent, living in the Swiss mountains
32s should fit fine. But I think that’s about the limit between the chain stays. And if it gets muddy, you might get rubbing. Not sure I’d ride this thing off-road. The wheelbase is pretty damn short. It would probably feel a little nervous on gravel. But that’s just me.
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I received the Frame last week (FrameSize : L , integrated bar : 400/120mm).
Finishing was quite okay. I did not see any bad-looking parts so it was a relief. But of course, things will be clearer once the parts are all installed and tested.
I attach some photos of the weight of the parts
Later I'll ask for your suggestions about internal cabling (for rattling etc.) and others..
thanks in advance!
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Looks great. Very very close to buying one. Will follow this thread with interest. Regards.
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I received the Frame last week (FrameSize : L , integrated bar : 400/120mm).
Finishing was quite okay. I did not see any bad-looking parts so it was a relief. But of course, things will be clearer once the parts are all installed and tested.
I attach some photos of the weight of the parts
Later I'll ask for your suggestions about internal cabling (for rattling etc.) and others..
thanks in advance!
WHats the lowest distance the seat post will drop down? from the top of the frame to the rail of the saddle. I am trying to figure out what the largest frame I can fit as I got short legs and long torso. I am thinking a 54. but I would like to confirm.
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WHats the lowest distance the seat post will drop down? from the top of the frame to the rail of the saddle. I am trying to figure out what the largest frame I can fit as I got short legs and long torso. I am thinking a 54. but I would like to confirm.
I have packed the frame back as I don't have much space at home, but the seat post was blocked (or touched somewhere in the frame) with the current length. I did not use any screws to hold it in that position in the photo.
So if you cut the bottom like 10cm, it can go down until the offset starts.
Alternatively, you may search seat-post without offsets.
When I start working on the frame again, I can measure the total length from BB for you.
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WHats the lowest distance the seat post will drop down? from the top of the frame to the rail of the saddle. I am trying to figure out what the largest frame I can fit as I got short legs and long torso. I am thinking a 54. but I would like to confirm.
As long as the post is 10cm inside the frame, you can cut it if too long, with a metal saw.
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Received my copy (Disc) on Monday and also ordered a set of RC-50 wheels. Complementing it with Rival AXS the assembly was straight forward, but some points one should take care of (if not already mentioned somewhere in this thread).
When you fit a DUB/30mm axle you have to file down a protruding rivet that holds the bottom battery cover. Otherwise, you can't mount the axle straight. Just remove the bottom cover and you can access the rivet. The BSA threads seem to be cut post-mold and co-axial alignment/facing is fine. I had to remove some residuary debris and paint, but then you can screw in the bottom-bracket by hand easily and crank-axle fits smooth. Break mounts seem not to be machined but are sufficiently flat/parallel - no rubbing. What you have to take care of is the thread-insert holding the rear axle. It is fixed with a small screw that may get loose/lost. It can then happen that the insert rotates, and the axle becomes loose. Coming from the factory without it (!) apply thread-lock to the screw and check regularly. Overall quality of the frame seems fine, but time will tell. Test-drive today did not reveal any issues. The frame feels firm and with 28mm/5bar sufficiently comfortable (for a race bike). The handlebar seemed quite flexible when putting power into the bike, but I have no experience with the original, so that might be normal.
Someone having long(er)-term experience?
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Received my copy (Disc) on Monday and also ordered a set of RC-50 wheels. Complementing it with Rival AXS the assembly was straight forward, but some points one should take care of (if not already mentioned somewhere in this thread).
When you fit a DUB/30mm axle you have to file down a protruding rivet that holds the bottom battery cover. Otherwise, you can't mount the axle straight. Just remove the bottom cover and you can access the rivet. The BSA threads seem to be cut post-mold and co-axial alignment/facing is fine. I had to remove some residuary debris and paint, but then you can screw in the bottom-bracket by hand easily and crank-axle fits smooth. Break mounts seem not to be machined but are sufficiently flat/parallel - no rubbing. What you have to take care of is the thread-insert holding the rear axle. It is fixed with a small screw that may get loose/lost. It can then happen that the insert rotates, and the axle becomes loose. Coming from the factory without it (!) apply thread-lock to the screw and check regularly. Overall quality of the frame seems fine, but time will tell. Test-drive today did not reveal any issues. The frame feels firm and with 28mm/5bar sufficiently comfortable (for a race bike). The handlebar seemed quite flexible when putting power into the bike, but I have no experience with the original, so that might be normal.
Someone having long(er)-term experience?
Lovely bike.
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Received my copy (Disc) on Monday and also ordered a set of RC-50 wheels. Complementing it with Rival AXS the assembly was straight forward, but some points one should take care of (if not already mentioned somewhere in this thread).
When you fit a DUB/30mm axle you have to file down a protruding rivet that holds the bottom battery cover. Otherwise, you can't mount the axle straight. Just remove the bottom cover and you can access the rivet. The BSA threads seem to be cut post-mold and co-axial alignment/facing is fine. I had to remove some residuary debris and paint, but then you can screw in the bottom-bracket by hand easily and crank-axle fits smooth. Break mounts seem not to be machined but are sufficiently flat/parallel - no rubbing. What you have to take care of is the thread-insert holding the rear axle. It is fixed with a small screw that may get loose/lost. It can then happen that the insert rotates, and the axle becomes loose. Coming from the factory without it (!) apply thread-lock to the screw and check regularly. Overall quality of the frame seems fine, but time will tell. Test-drive today did not reveal any issues. The frame feels firm and with 28mm/5bar sufficiently comfortable (for a race bike). The handlebar seemed quite flexible when putting power into the bike, but I have no experience with the original, so that might be normal.
Someone having long(er)-term experience?
Nice looking build. I received my replica and will post some pics soon. Will use SRAM Force group set and Elite Wheels. Waiting for the wheels and some other odds and ends to arrive.
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Nice looking build. I received my replica and will post some pics soon. Will use SRAM Force group set and Elite Wheels. Waiting for the wheels and some other odds and ends to arrive.
I just bought some elite wheels. They talk about having to pay tariffs for the US. What did you have to pay for yours?
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I ordered through Amazon, free shipping, no tariff. Once the order is in, then you confirm your wheel requirements.
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I did via aliexpress. the x weaves were at a good price.
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I just bought some elite wheels. They talk about having to pay tariffs for the US. What did you have to pay for yours?
The elite wheels on Amazon are $300-$500
The same brand (I think) on their website for the Elite Drive 40 V (rim brakes) is $1069
https://www.elite-wheels.com/product/drive-40mm-rim-brake-carbon-spoke-wheelsetceramic-bearing/
Are these 2 the same company & just different products ?
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The elite wheels on Amazon are $300-$500
The same brand (I think) on their website for the Elite Drive 40 V (rim brakes) is $1069
https://www.elite-wheels.com/product/drive-40mm-rim-brake-carbon-spoke-wheelsetceramic-bearing/
Are these 2 the same company & just different products ?
Yeah same company, different product. Elite makes all sorts of wheels in all sorts of price ranges, most not available through their website. The website only shows the models they're really pushing/marketing with YouTubers and such. The Drive wheelset is their top of the line set. Anything not part of their "main" product line you can get from them on AliExpress, Alibaba, Whatsapp, Amazon, etc. What you find on Amazon is likely the lowest end of their lineup
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The elite wheels on Amazon are $300-$500
The same brand (I think) on their website for the Elite Drive 40 V (rim brakes) is $1069
https://www.elite-wheels.com/product/drive-40mm-rim-brake-carbon-spoke-wheelsetceramic-bearing/
Are these 2 the same company & just different products ?
Same company... these are the ones I got. they were like 420ish with all the deals and what not. https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803582395869.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803582395869.html) Anyways I am still wondering about the taxes/tarffs in the US and how to pay them.
Bought the low end x weaves because I dont need the super lightweight ones. I need as sturdy as wheels as I can get. thats why I like the 218. its stout. I am just under 100kg and 184cm. I am XL lady. So basic carbon is fine. but X weave is pretty. so I splurged a bit.
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Hi everyone, just finished my build and a
Im happy to report 32s fit with room in the front and just enough in the back.
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Hi everyone.
I’m happy to report that I received my replacement frame from VB the other week.
The finish on the inside does actually look considerably cleaner, especially in the headtube area and at the seat tube clamping area where my first frame broke.
The rear brake exit port on the top tube again is too small despite Chris promising that they’d take care of it. But we’ll, that’s a minor problem to deal with.
I found another surprise in the BB area:
In contrast to my first frame, the BB thread inserts are connected by a sort of carbon bracing. Neither the disc frame I was accidentally sent nor the rim brake frame I got after this had this feature. I asked Chris whether this is a design update but haven’t heard back.
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Now as for the frame that broke on me. I actually did a DIY repair that turned out to be pretty successful. I grew pretty tired of waiting as each of these frames takes at least three weeks to get to me so I decided to give it a try.
I attached pics from before and after the repair. I haven’t sanded and painted it yet as I wanted to wait and see if it holds up. What can I say? I’ve ridden around 400k and gave it some pretty hard abuse on well used cobbled roads in my area. And it held up fine. No seatpost slipping. No cracks. Nothing.
I would have never attempted this on more critical parts of the bike like handlebar or headtube. But it’s good to have learnt this skill for the future. I actually repaired a broken carbon bottle cage since. And that works fine, too.
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Hi everyone.
I’m happy to report that I received my replacement frame from VB the other week.
The finish on the inside does actually look considerably cleaner, especially in the headtube area and at the seat tube clamping area where my first frame broke.
The rear brake exit port on the top tube again is too small despite Chris promising that they’d take care of it. But we’ll, that’s a minor problem to deal with.
I found another surprise in the BB area:
In contrast to my first frame, the BB thread inserts are connected by a sort of carbon bracing. Neither the disc frame I was accidentally sent nor the rim brake frame I got after this had this feature. I asked Chris whether this is a design update but haven’t heard back.
SO its not a one piece aluminum? Which is something I would hope for there is still the chance of misalignment and shifting. Less so. If its not one piece there is always a chance of misalignment.
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SO its not a one piece aluminum? Which is something I would hope for there is still the chance of misalignment and shifting. Less so. If its not one piece there is always a chance of misalignment.
No it’s not. It’s two individual aluminium thread inserts molded into the carbon. Though I would think that the threading is being cut last. I dunno. There is a chance of misalignment. My cranks however are spinning smoothly. Not as smooth as the one piece pressfit unit I had in my other frame but good enough.
Only difference between the replacement frame I got and the first unit is that on the replacement, there’s carbon bracing between the two BB shells. It looks like it’s intentionally been manufactured this way. Not sure what the logic behind this is.
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For reference: This is what the first frames looked like in the BB area. You can clearly see the difference. Maybe the additional carbon helps with the initial alignment of the thread inserts? Maybe it’s there for reinforcement? I dunno.
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@Sebastian
Are you experiencing any seat tube flex on corners ?
I read a long term (1 year) review on the Dogma F & apparently their design changes causes the seat tube to flex under load on corners & checking if this frame has a similar issue.
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For reference: This is what the first frames looked like in the BB area. You can clearly see the difference. Maybe the additional carbon helps with the initial alignment of the thread inserts? Maybe it’s there for reinforcement? I dunno.
That's extremely odd, to put it mildly ... I can't think of a good reason why this would ever be done, though several bad ones.
Re: the paint cracking around the seat clamp area like that. I'm sure you know that it usually happens when the carbon itself is flexing in a way it's not designed to do (which ultimately leads to cracking). If I were you I'd make the clamp area a 'feature' and have it naked with clear over the top. That way you can better keep an eye on the carbon itself.
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That's extremely odd, to put it mildly ... I can't think of a good reason why this would ever be done, though several bad ones.
Re: the paint cracking around the seat clamp area like that. I'm sure you know that it usually happens when the carbon itself is flexing in a way it's not designed to do (which ultimately leads to cracking). If I were you I'd make the clamp area a 'feature' and have it naked with clear over the top. That way you can better keep an eye on the carbon itself.
Care to elaborate on what you mean?
About the paint on the repair job: Yeah I thought about that but I won’t be able to sand off and smooth the edges without damaging the neighbouring paint. So that’s not gonna look good without painting over it with something.
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@Sebastian
Are you experiencing any seat tube flex on corners ?
I read a long term (1 year) review on the Dogma F & apparently their design changes causes the seat tube to flex under load on corners & checking if this frame has a similar issue.
I read that review, too. Didn’t really have that problem, no. I even put it on the Trainer to try and recreate that sort of behaviour. I do notice that the seatpost flexes from side to side noticeably more than a round one. Which is to be expected I guess, particularly with as much of it showing as on my bike. But I don’t notice any negative influence on the handling.
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I read that review, too. Didn’t really have that problem, no. I even put it on the Trainer to try and recreate that sort of behaviour. I do notice that the seatpost flexes from side to side noticeably more than a round one. Which is to be expected I guess, particularly with as much of it showing as on my bike. But I don’t notice any negative influence on the handling.
Perfect ... thanks
Yes, it was the side to side movement that I was talking about. I don't see that on my Madone probably due to the isospeed dampener, so I was curious about bikes that are fixed like this frame.
Also, thanks for replying in detail to my email as I now have a lot of good info from you & others on here on what I would like to build
Waiting on component availability & will probably start the project in Dec.
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Heard back from Chris about the difference in BB design on my newer frame. This is what he said:
"Hello
Yes ,we use one complete BB instead of two separate one .Both works
Chris"
I asked him if that is a general design update on this frame. But no reply, yet. Judging from my experience so far with VB, I have no reason to doubt him.
Frame weight on the new frame is identical to the old one. 1260g for a size XXL, painted.
My take on this is this: We all know these cheap frames are not monocoque but rather several pieces joined in a tube to tube construction. This and the usual lower grade carbon (T700/800 instead of High Mod T1000/1100 stuff) makes for the higher weight. I think, they just used a different BB on this one. Be it, because it was all they had lying around at the time or be it because they changed the design to avoid misalignment issues. I dunno.
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Hi VBR218 owners. On the edge of ordering a XXL frame. The geometry would be good for me. In fact, the dogma F is a relatively relaxed superbike geometry from my POV. The only thing that bothers me is the GC performance review on the fact that the frame would be stiff "vertically". I don't really care about the sluggish critic.
What do you think about that "vertically" stiff claim? Is it truly a back breaker?
How would you rate the comfort of the frame? Of course, wheel/tire setup affects that. What do you run for wheel/tires?
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https://youtu.be/8LPiqdzkugM (https://youtu.be/8LPiqdzkugM)
This guy thinks it rides super comfy, for what it’s worth.
Also, GC Performance by his own admission pumps his tires up super hard.
I think it rides as firm as expected for an aero frame. Not as comfy as a traditional round tubed frame anyway. But by no means exceptionally harsh. I use Vittoria Corsa tubulars and Clinchers depending on the wheelset. Measured 28mm wide (25c labelled tires). It did not beat me up any more than my other bikes on longish 100km+ rides.
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Hi VBR218 owners. On the edge of ordering a XXL frame. The geometry would be good for me. In fact, the dogma F is a relatively relaxed superbike geometry from my POV. The only thing that bothers me is the GC performance review on the fact that the frame would be stiff "vertically". I don't really care about the sluggish critic.
What do you think about that "vertically" stiff claim? Is it truly a back breaker?
How would you rate the comfort of the frame? Of course, wheel/tire setup affects that. What do you run for wheel/tires?
im 6'4" 235 lbs and coming from a endurance frame and i find it really comfortable. its all in your fit. i ride a 32 on the rear with 68 psi and a 28 with 65psi on front i put 420 miles on it since last month. including a road race last sunday. its more all i was expecting an then some.
p.s. don't thread lock grub screws on the handlebars
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im 6'4" 235 lbs and coming from a endurance frame and i find it really comfortable. its all in your fit. i ride a 32 on the rear with 68 psi and a 28 with 65psi on front i put 420 miles on it since last month. including a road race last sunday.
Loving the white Color on yours. It really works well on this frame. I see the handlebar didn’t work out for you? Just curious because I find them probably the comfiest bars I’ve ever ridden.
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Loving the white Color on yours. It really works well on this frame. I see the handlebar didn’t work out for you? Just curious because I find them probably the comfiest bars I’ve ever ridden.
i put threadlock on the original grub screws in the rear of bars. i have been lowering the bars 5 mm at a time.since i first set it up. the last time went to lower it the screw didnt come out. so i put my pro stealth bar back on.
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i put threadlock on the original grub screws in the rear of bars. i have been lowering the bars 5 mm at a time.since i first set it up. the last time went to lower it the screw didnt come out. so i put my pro stealth bar back on. theirs a standard 5mm spacer under the bars and then 1 5mm oem spacer and 3 10mm spacers.
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Oh! Good to know. I put Loctite on there, too. I removed it once, so far. The screws were harder to turn as expected with threadlock. But no problem removing them. I'll keep an eye on it.
Did you round out the heads or what's the problem?
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Oh! Good to know. I put Loctite on there, too. I removed it once, so far. The screws were harder to turn as expected with threadlock. But no problem removing them. I'll keep an eye on it.
Did you round out the heads or what's the problem?
yea i rounded them out real good. been trying to drill them out for when i find my final height.
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yea i rounded them out real good. been trying to drill them out for when i find my final height.
Before you take to the drill, I’d try to gently tap in a slightly oversized torx bit with a hammer and see if you can turn it. That has worked for me a few times.
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https://youtu.be/8LPiqdzkugM (https://youtu.be/8LPiqdzkugM)
This guy thinks it rides super comfy, for what it’s worth.
Also, GC Performance by his own admission pumps his tires up super hard.
That has me leaning even more to the 218 from the 168... if Its comfy... then thats a solid check mark in the pro column.
The heaviness that is talked about might be the BB issue he has and a poor set up and the wheelset... not that I could do any better with a set up... So it might be the flex robs some power which add some comfiness. There can be a number of factors.
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That has me leaning even more to the 218 from the 168... if Its comfy... then thats a solid check mark in the pro column.
The heaviness that is talked about might be the BB issue he has and a poor set up and the wheelset... not that I could do any better with a set up... So it might be the flex robs some power which add some comfiness. There can be a number of factors.
I am by no means a powerful sprinter. But I do feel there is noticeable flex in the headtube and probably even more in the rear triangle when sprinting. So if someone was able to crank out 1000+ watts I could see this being an issue. It isn't for me. And I don't feel it's slowing me down either. When standing up on climbs it is even less of an issue.
So while it does feel like there is flex, all my strava stats are saying that I'm equally fast or faster on this bike, no matter the terrain. Also, my wheels are probably not the stiffest. So that might add to the feeling.
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Now as for the frame that broke on me. I actually did a DIY repair that turned out to be pretty successful. I grew pretty tired of waiting as each of these frames takes at least three weeks to get to me so I decided to give it a try.
I attached pics from before and after the repair. I haven’t sanded and painted it yet as I wanted to wait and see if it holds up. What can I say? I’ve ridden around 400k and gave it some pretty hard abuse on well used cobbled roads in my area. And it held up fine. No seatpost slipping. No cracks. Nothing.
I would have never attempted this on more critical parts of the bike like handlebar or headtube. But it’s good to have learnt this skill for the future. I actually repaired a broken carbon bottle cage since. And that works fine, too.
I am super impressed by your repair. How did you get the two parts to bond together, there must be overlap between the bit you replaced and the frame, right? And how did you get the right shape out of the bit you replaced?
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I am super impressed by your repair. How did you get the two parts to bond together, there must be overlap between the bit you replaced and the frame, right? And how did you get the right shape out of the bit you replaced?
I got the stuff from a local composite shop. I used dry carbon cloth sheets and 2 component ready-to-mix epoxy. I used multidirectional rather than UD sheets. Now dry carbon cloth is rather fragile to handle because you can easily move and shift the fibres in the matrix and applying the epoxy can be a rather messy job. BUT the upside is that it can easily be manipulated into any shape you want.
You need to liberally sand off the affected area to expose any cracks. I’ve read various guides as to how to do this and depending on how high stressed the area is you should reinforce at least three to five times the length of the crack.
I made sure to use material with the same properties as the T700 that the frame is made out of. I checked the spec sheet and the fibres I used have a slightly lower tensile strength but the same e-module/elasticity which means they should flex the same way under load than the original material.
I applied one layer on the inside and two layers on the outside. Now the hard part is compressing the whole thing for it to cure. On the inside, I actually used the seatpost wedge itself wrapped in thin plastic foil to compress the area. On the outside I wrapped everything tightly in plastic and heat it up slightly for it to shrink.
Once it’s completely dry you can peel the foil off.
The inside was rather messy and it took A LOT of sanding and trying until the seatpost and wedge fit correctly. It was actually too tight after the repair. Now the wedge sits flush and fits better than before arguably. On the outside the surface was pretty good to begin with.
The manufacturer recommends that the repaired area be tempered at about 50 degrees Celsius for the epoxy to cure even harder. Now that I could not do. But it still hardened reasonably well.
The final step is smoothing out the edges of the repaired area to create a smooth surface to paint over without any visible overlap. That’s what I haven’t done yet.
I’ve now ridden the frame around 800k with the repair and I’m confident it’ll hold up. Just don’t know yet how exactly I’ll paint it because I won’t be able to match the color. I’ll probably go just with black.
I thought about manipulating the fibres to form the two holes in order for the fibres to not be interrupted and increase strength. I tried it but it shifts the whole matrix around and you don’t want that. So I’m the end I just covered the in- and outside completely and drilled it afterwards.
The whole repair cost me 20EUR / about 20USD. I got a quote from a local composite expert before I tried it and he would have charged me 350 including the paintjob. He would probably have done it a bit cleaner than I was able to. But I’m glad I tried it.
Sorry for the lengthy post!
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I applied one layer on the inside and two layers on the outside. Now the hard part is compressing the whole thing for it to cure. On the inside, I actually used the seatpost wedge itself wrapped in thin plastic foil to compress the area. On the outside I wrapped everything tightly in plastic and heat it up slightly for it to shrink.
Sorry for the lengthy post!
I think I understand, thank you for the detailed answer, it's extremely helpful. I realized you "only" had a crack, in the sense that you didn't rebuild the entire repaired area with an entire chunk of carbon, you "just" added 1 sheet inside and 2 outside to stabilize the crack. Makes total sense. I can imagine how awkward the outside compression would be. I'd probably have 3 printed a shape to use as clamp because I have a 3d printer, and use some straps to secure it (that's me flexing my CAD skills...)
Skills are freedom, I think it's great to do things yourself when you can! Makes you appreciate craftsmanship more, it's easier to see through marketing BS, and more!
Congrats once again! I'm not sure I'd try to hide the repair per se, i kind of like the battle wound idea.
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I think I understand, thank you for the detailed answer, it's extremely helpful. I realized you "only" had a crack, in the sense that you didn't rebuild the entire repaired area with an entire chunk of carbon, you "just" added 1 sheet inside and 2 outside to stabilize the crack. Makes total sense. I can imagine how awkward the outside compression would be. I'd probably have 3 printed a shape to use as clamp because I have a 3d printer, and use some straps to secure it (that's me flexing my CAD skills...)
Skills are freedom, I think it's great to do things yourself when you can! Makes you appreciate craftsmanship more, it's easier to see through marketing BS, and more!
Congrats once again! I'm not sure I'd try to hide the repair per se, i kind of like the battle wound idea.
There’s also dedicated shrink wrap as well as vacuum and expansion bladders you can buy for that sort of stuff. But I felt that in my case that’s overkill.
I’d be curious to try what it’s like to work with prepreg sheets in the future. I suppose that’s a lot less messy.
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Hey, I'll probably buy me an VBR218 with rim brakes for Christmas but i don't know which size should i get. Velobuild told me i should get an XL, can you guys give me advices ?
I'm 194cm 84kg but i have an 88cm inseam (very short legs)(saddle height between 79 80), i'm 22yo and flexible.
So, should i get an L or an XL ???
Thanks in advance and sorry for the spelling mistakes, english is not my first language.
Have a good one !
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Hey, I'll probably buy me an VBR218 with rim brakes for Christmas but i don't know which size should i get. Velobuild told me i should get an XL, can you guys give me advices ?
I'm 194cm 84kg but i have an 88cm inseam (very short legs)(saddle height between 79 80), i'm 22yo and flexible.
So, should i get an L or an XL ???
Thanks in advance and sorry for the spelling mistakes, english is not my first language.
Have a good one !
Bike fit questions like these are hard to answer without knowing your current fit. You should measure your current stack and reach (including stem length and handlebar reach) to get an idea. Because it doesn't end at the frame size. You also need to decide on cockpit measurements and you need to determine whether the setback seatpost works for you.
We're very similar. You're slightly taller than me and have a slightly lower seat height. I'm 190cm tall and my seat height is 81.5cm.
I've found the Dogma to have a rather high stack (if you include the obligatory headset cover which is 1.5cm tall) and a rather short reach compared to most aero bikes. For me, the XXL with the 120mm stem length is just right. But the reach is actually on the shorter side and if it was any shorter, I think I might start feeling cramped on the bike.
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Hey, I'll probably buy me an VBR218 with rim brakes for Christmas but i don't know which size should i get. Velobuild told me i should get an XL, can you guys give me advices ?
I'm 194cm 84kg but i have an 88cm inseam (very short legs)(saddle height between 79 80), i'm 22yo and flexible.
So, should i get an L or an XL ???
Thanks in advance and sorry for the spelling mistakes, english is not my first language.
Have a good one !
I'm 185 cm with an 88 cm inseam, and I was able to transfer the fit from my other bikes to the XXL with a 110 mm stem very easily. For comparison, it's similar to a large (57.5 cm) Giant Defy or a M (56 cm) Canyon Ultimate where I've swapped in a longer stem.
I have a feeling at 190 cm you'd be pretty cramped on a L, which is the same geometry as the 55 cm Dogma and designed for people around 175 cm tall. But in the end, like Sebastian says, it all depends on what you're used to.
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Heyo wrote in a couple of weeks ago asking for sizing recommendations. Decided to go for a M with 110-400 handlebar.
Was my first build. Had my troubles with internal routing, but managed to pull through :) Pretty happy with the result. You be the judge.
For me it rides a little rougher than my 2019 Aeroad CF SL but I had 28mm tyres on there and on the velobuild its 25mm and a blank carbon saddle.
All in all a great bike and solid value for money with the 105, the sensah shifters and elite ent wheelset. I am putting on tan sidewall tyres once these contis are done. Then it should look a little more exiting ;)
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For me it rides a little rougher than my 2019 Aeroad CF SL but I had 28mm tyres on there and on the velobuild its 25mm and a blank carbon saddle.
tan sidewall tyres once these contis are done.
Rim brake? interesting choice! You don't have access to the glut of second hand rim brake bikes everybody is trying to offload? The 25 vs 28mm can alone probably explain the ride difference. Would be curious to hear your thoughts on ride quality difference controlling for contact points, if you ever feel like running a semi scientific experiment.
FYI, Conti GP 5000 exist in "transparent", from memory, which is a dark shade on tan. I have a pair of 25.
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Rim brake? interesting choice! You don't have access to the glut of second hand rim brake bikes everybody is trying to offload? The 25 vs 28mm can alone probably explain the ride difference. Would be curious to hear your thoughts on ride quality difference controlling for contact points, if you ever feel like running a semi scientific experiment.
FYI, Conti GP 5000 exist in "transparent", from memory, which is a dark shade on tan. I have a pair of 25.
I do! Thats how I got my Canyon Aeroad :D There is quite a few rim brake bikes on sites like ebay etc. atm. None of the ones in my price range have the iconic pinarello dogma look tho
But for real these are my reasons in no particular order:
- easier to work with
- lighter
- I need no extra tools to install nor a drain kit for maintanence
- I had fake ee brakes lying around from my first ever shopping experience on aliexpress and decided to then build a cheapish bike around them (I know its a weird place to start :D)
- more aerodramatic ;)
- I despise the rising costs for bike parts and disc grupos are most of the time around 20ish% pricier
- Also I dont have a big wallet.
- Save the rim brake
- I have a set of winter fulcrum alloy clinchers for the rainy days
- I have always wanted the iconic looking tdf winning curved pinarello dogma frame with rim brakes; now i got the less paperello doge f, so I am happy - I just hope the brakes and the frameset hold up to my watts and riding skill (both not really high hehe)
Conti even has a "cream" colored version, but usually it is 40€ more and ways around 40-50g more for both tyres.
I had a look at the michelin power cup in tan. Looks interesting, but I have only ever ridden conti, so I might go for transparent, since it does not have the mentioned drawbacks. But it might not look as good - ah decisions
But as is - totally blacked out - it gives me batmobile vibes :D I don't know if I like that.
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I applaud your choice, Hurburt. And my reasons are pretty much the same. Everyone has different taste obviously. But to me, the Dogma represents peak rim brake. That’s why I wanted one. But I could never afford nor justify the real thing.
Also, I wanted direct mount and fully internal cabling. The Dogma is one of very few bikes to have that.
I’m curious to see how you fare with those fake EEs. You’re aware that one other poster here already had a pair of these disintegrate on him?
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I applaud your choice, Hurburt. And my reasons are pretty much the same. Everyone has different taste obviously. But to me, the Dogma represents peak rim brake. That’s why I wanted one. But I could never afford nor justify the real thing.
Also, I wanted direct mount and fully internal cabling. The Dogma is one of very few bikes to have that.
I’m curious to see how you fare with those fake EEs. You’re aware that one other poster here already had a pair of these disintegrate on him?
Heyo Sebastian, well thanks!
the real pinarello dogma f certainly is peak rim brake road bike stuff.
Yes... the velobuild has sometimes minor sometimes major qc issues and the weight is not the same. But all in all its a stunning bike for round about 1500€. A pinarello from 2009 would just barely go for the same money hehe.
I know I have skimmed over that part of the post and try not to think about it... But it ways somewhat on my conscience. I decided to try them anyway and apart from the installation being kind of complicated, they have been quiet nice (looks and performance).
I have only been on two rides so far. One today, one yesterday. And I must say, the perfomance of the brakes has been slowly decreasing my supressed angst of sudden critical failure. I hope it stays that way.
I have them in black and maybe that is key? :D idk I weight around 70kg and today I went down a little berg with about 75kmh and the braking performance wasn't lacking. Could be the wheels aswell. They seem to take quite a bit of rubber from the yellow swissstop brake pads. More than on my old FFWD F4R (maybe because the pads are new or the braking surface is more grippy).
Anyhow I like your build as well. Was really debating between the 105 and sensah combo, complete 105, complete sensah or campi centaur (I have campi 11 spd eps super record shifting mixed with other stuff on my aeroad). But in the end I went for the sensah 105 with ee brake in the spirit of chinertown :D and i had those brakes anyway and didnt need a whole grupo.
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And I must say, the perfomance of the brakes has been slowly decreasing my supressed angst of sudden critical failure. I hope it stays that way.
I have them in black and maybe that is key? :D idk I weight around 70kg and today I went down a little berg with about 75kmh and the braking performance wasn't lacking. Could be the wheels aswell. They seem to take quite a bit of rubber from the yellow swissstop brake pads. More than on my old FFWD F4R (maybe because the pads are new or the braking surface is more grippy).
Anyhow I like your build as well. Was really debating between the 105 and sensah combo, complete 105, complete sensah or campi centaur (I have campi 11 spd eps super record shifting mixed with other stuff on my aeroad). But in the end I went for the sensah 105 with ee brake in the spirit of chinertown :D and i had those brakes anyway and didnt need a whole grupo.
Well, I hope they work out for you.
How's Campy EPS for you? I'm seriously considering getting EPS 11sp since the stuff can be bought used rather cheap sometimes. The only thing I don't like is that the rear mech shouldn't be used with more than a 29cog according to spec.
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Thanks for the response guys ! I'll definitely go for an XL with the longer stem, I've compared it to my others bikes, the reach is about the same on one.
Take care.
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Well, I hope they work out for you.
How's Campy EPS for you? I'm seriously considering getting EPS 11sp since the stuff can be bought used rather cheap sometimes. The only thing I don't like is that the rear mech shouldn't be used with more than a 29cog according to spec.
Thanks mate. I will keep you posted. And I hope I will be able to keep you posted, if they decide to bail on me.
I really enjoy the shifting of EPS. Its quite precise and the hoods feel great. I found it quite hard to get the front derailleur to work properly in the beginning, because I was using 50/34 Chainrings (because of 29 tooth max at the back) the derailleur would scratch my crank when in the hardest gear at the back. the app is not as refined as di2. Also the shifting buttons on top are not existent on EPS (unlike shimano). So you only get the typical campi mech shifting buttons, which is a bummer if you are used to more. Also you can't individually assign functions to the buttons only presets can be chosen, negating the major benefits of electronic shifting a little bit.
Pro:
- shifting in extreme positions is prossible with electronic
- shifting is always the same once the button is clicked
- very comfortable to use without app and adjust mid ride without even stopping.
Cons:
- the actual electronic or "smart" part of electronic shifting on campy isnt as refined (app has barely any customisation)
- I think in this regard all electronic shifting could be better. It is electronic yes but its missing some of the "smart" features like more buttons on other places, custom button mapping etc.
I have never ridden campy mechanical shifting, but from what I am told, it is quite precise and clean to begin with. So if you have campy mech now, I am not sure if electronic is a huge step up.
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Ok, I have pulled the trigger on the frame. Unpainted matte. Next step is the wheelset. I am hesitating between the x-weave or standard elite wheels. Also I think about upgrading the spokes from pillar 1423 to 1420 for about a 50gr per wheel for 50$. Do you guys think it's worth it?
Also what do you think about the x-weave style?
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I had to go with the standard wheels, as the X-Weave doesnt come in 60mm depth (which is what I like).
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I have never ridden campy mechanical shifting, but from what I am told, it is quite precise and clean to begin with. So if you have campy mech now, I am not sure if electronic is a huge step up.
Thanks for sharing your experience. EPS is tempting but every time I weigh up the pros and cons I’m deciding against it. Centaur is great but the shifting is not as quick as with higher ranking Campy groups. It’s more resembling the feeling of SRAM Double Tap, because the shift only engages upon releasing the thumb paddle. But the thumb paddle is much easier to reach especially when sprinting.
I’ve also been thinking of going 12sp with Chorus as that can be bought for reasonable prices, too. But that again opens up a whole can of problems bc I think Id have to swap not only the cassette but also the chainrings. Too expensive.
I still have a 1st gen Chorus 11 groupset which is silly light and gorgeous to look at. I’ve read that people have made it to work with 11-32. I might just give that a try when rebuilding the bike on the replacement frame.
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Ok, I have pulled the trigger on the frame. Unpainted matte. Next step is the wheelset. I am hesitating between the x-weave or standard elite wheels. Also I think about upgrading the spokes from pillar 1423 to 1420 for about a 50gr per wheel for 50$. Do you guys think it's worth it?
Also what do you think about the x-weave style?
As an amateur wheelbuilder I’d say if you’re investing in a carbon wheelset I wouldn’t save on the spokes. 50USD upcharge is reasonable for Pillar 1420s. They’re equivalent to Sapim CX Rays in cross section, weight and fatigue resistance. They’re among the best steel bladed spokes you can get. Also, saving 100g on a wheelset is a lot. Saving weight makes more of a noticeable difference on the rims and tires/inner tubes. But still.
Only downside with the 1420s is that they will make the wheels marginally less stiff.
I got 1420s on my tubulars and CX Rays on my clinchers. I can’t say anything negative about them.
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Thanks for sharing your experience. EPS is tempting but every time I weigh up the pros and cons I’m deciding against it. Centaur is great but the shifting is not as quick as with higher ranking Campy groups. It’s more resembling the feeling of SRAM Double Tap, because the shift only engages upon releasing the thumb paddle. But the thumb paddle is much easier to reach especially when sprinting.
I still have a 1st gen Chorus 11 groupset which is silly light and gorgeous to look at. I’ve read that people have made it to work with 11-32. I might just give that a try when rebuilding the bike on the replacement frame.
Well if you want electronic shifting, I would wait for some bigger changes than one more cog at the back. They must be some big innovations around the corner, because not a lot has happened lately. Maybe wireless and more buttons and customisation options.
Also using a bike - where you do everything with your own body and your own strength - it feels somewhat strange to use electronic shifting... But maybe thats just a weird thought I have.
But then again, if you find a deal you cant let pass, go for it. Something new is always a motivator to go out and ride our bikes, right? :D
Yeah I thought they must be a difference between Centaur and the higher ranking groups other than the looks obviously. I must say tho I am pleasently suprised with the Sensah Shimano combination. It works well and I should be able to use it with gloves no problem, because you only use one big lever.
Go for the Chorus build! If you have it laying around that would be the way to go. I would have gone for it, but it wasn't in my budget range at the time of purchasing the parts.
Mind posting a pic of the bb are, when you receive the replacement frame?
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Finally frame order size XL, handlebar 420/110
What mount do I need for my Garmin Edge 1030+ ?
I'm going back & forth via email with Chris@velobuild & trying to figure out how to order the mount. since it does not show up on their webpage
Groupset will be 12spd Campagnolo Record + rim brakes & wheels will be Elite Drive 50V & this should be a really nice bike to ride
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What mount do I need for my Garmin Edge 1030+ ?
I'm going back & forth via email with Chris@velobuild & trying to figure out how to order the mount. since it does not show up on their webpage
I bought this one :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003817789486.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.0.0.9d7a1802aemgEd
but I haven't ridden outside yet..
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Still waiting for my frame. It should ship tomorrow.
Anyone here running this bike with Di2? I am realizing that the only wires that will be visible are the ones from junction A. I have the external box. Did you try to hide hte junction a box in the handlebar? It seems that there is a lot of space under the handlebar screwed cover.
I don't mind unscrewing the bolts for charging everytime if I can hide it :)
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Ok, I have pulled the trigger on the frame. Unpainted matte. Next step is the wheelset. I am hesitating between the x-weave or standard elite wheels. Also I think about upgrading the spokes from pillar 1423 to 1420 for about a 50gr per wheel for 50$. Do you guys think it's worth it?
Also what do you think about the x-weave style?
If you get the elite drive wheels, use the code GC15 & save about ~ $168
I bought the Elite Drive 50v (rim) in team spec
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Anyone here running this bike with Di2? I am realizing that the only wires that will be visible are the ones from junction A. I have the external box. Did you try to hide hte junction a box in the handlebar? It seems that there is a lot of space under the handlebar screwed cover.
That could work. There is quite a lot of space there.
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Mind posting a pic of the bb are, when you receive the replacement frame?
I already did. It’s one or two pages back. My new frame is different from the old one in the BB. Dunno though, if this is a general design update and all the newer frames are like this. Maybe some of the recent buyers can confirm.
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I'm going back & forth via email with Chris@velobuild & trying to figure out how to order the mount. since it does not show up on their webpage
Groupset will be 12spd Campagnolo Record + rim brakes & wheels will be Elite Drive 50V & this should be a really nice bike to ride
I ordered mine for an additional 15 USD through Chris. Paid via PayPal.
It’s a pretty chunky piece and I’m not to keen on the fake MOST-logo on there. I didn’t know it would come with a logo. It’s sturdy, though. Which is good since I’m also attaching my front light to it.
Looking forward to seeing your build. And I’m also keen on hearing how you like Record 12.
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I'm almost done my build and for some reason I have these leftover... what are they for?
Literally my first time building a bike, but it's been a really fun journey.
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I ordered mine for an additional 15 USD through Chris. Paid via PayPal.
It’s a pretty chunky piece and I’m not to keen on the fake MOST-logo on there. I didn’t know it would come with a logo. It’s sturdy, though. Which is good since I’m also attaching my front light to it.
Looking forward to seeing your build. And I’m also keen on hearing how you like Record 12.
Just ordered my mount for $10, also from Chris.
Now, I just need to figure out how to assemble it & set up the drive train & index that correctly.
I do have most of the parktools/others except for the cable routing kit & the bb cup tool for the campy
ie. metric wrenches/cone wrenches/chaintool/torque wrenches & I asked the shop where I bough the record groupset to add in the FD alignment tool & any spares that come in the package (pins etc)
It's really annoying when bike shops sell you a bike & remove stuff like brake blocks, alignment tools etc from a package (eg sram.)
(SRAM will send these over for free if you email or call them, which is really of them)
What I need to know what kind of grease to use & where. I routinely use polylube1000 or bontrager grease when servicing my madone on the non carbon parts
I also have tubes of HPG-1 & SAC-2-1 (carbon paste), lying around unopened
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I'm almost done my build and for some reason I have these leftover... what are they for?
Literally my first time building a bike, but it's been a really fun journey.
Steerer fork compression plug/sleeve ?
or
Polished centrifuge part from their nuclear program...for bikes
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I'm almost done my build and for some reason I have these leftover... what are they for?
Literally my first time building a bike, but it's been a really fun journey.
Not entirely sure but I think those are some sort of adapters to accommodate different diameter batteries for electronic groupsets. Anyway, it’s nothing you need for a mechanical build. So don’t worry.
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Ok, I have pulled the trigger on the frame. Unpainted matte. Next step is the wheelset. I am hesitating between the x-weave or standard elite wheels. Also I think about upgrading the spokes from pillar 1423 to 1420 for about a 50gr per wheel for 50$. Do you guys think it's worth it?
Also what do you think about the x-weave style?
I ordered the ent xweave. Because why not. in the 50mm. I am waiting for them to show up.
If I want to save 300gs. I just need to go for a few rides. I will drop some weight. Though from surgery and being sick last week. I am down like 5 lbs. But havent touched my bike. because just as I can exercise again, boom the cold from hell. #not covid
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I ordered the ent xweave. Because why not. in the 50mm. I am waiting for them to show up.
If I want to save 300gs. I just need to go for a few rides. I will drop some weight. Though from surgery and being sick last week. I am down like 5 lbs. But havent touched my bike. because just as I can exercise again, boom the cold from hell. #not covid
Hope you feel better soon.
It is flu season in SoCal & is raining at the moment, so if you are in the region, might as well just rest for the time being.
I did not know you could order the vbr-218 in different weaves. What is the default weave ?
I did ask Chris to leave it unfinished matte & then he emailed back saying it was in the process of being painted matte & clearcoated.......guess I may have to clean out the threads etc
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What size skewers do I need for the rim brake version of this frame ?
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X-weave is for the wheelset from elite wheels. I also ended up going with x-weave ENT with pillar 1420 spokes.
For the matte frame, I also picked this one. Chris said it was the same as in GC performance video. I am not sure why he told you it is being painted as we see the carbon through the clear. Maybe just the frame joints are being painted.
I will build the bike with Di2 ultegra, senicx PR2 crank, onirii br 05 brakes
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Does anyone have a link to a manual or diagram on this frame that shows how the cable hose routing is laid out in the frame ?
Do I need the cable routing kit from parktool or can I just get away using fishing line and dumb luck
Also are the cable houses clamped anywhere in the frame to prevent rattling ?
I have no idea when the frame or wheel will show up so I’m asking all the questions I can think of ahead of time and getting everything ready for my first build
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...Do I need the cable routing kit from parktool or can I just get away using fishing line and dumb luck...
You can easily route a brake cable with a good magnet in any frame.
Then put the end of the cable into the hose, like 5-10cm.
And gently push the hose into the frame.
The brake cable with its rigidity will guide the hose trough the eventual twists.
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Does anyone have a link to a manual or diagram on this frame that shows how the cable hose routing is laid out in the frame ?
There is none that I would be aware of.
Do I need the cable routing kit from parktool or can I just get away using fishing line and dumb luck
You don't need one IMO. It's pretty easy to route cables on this frame. Also, the big bottom bracket cover makes it easier. You can route the cables to the BB and then continue from there.
Also are the cable houses clamped anywhere in the frame to prevent rattling ?
As with most of these frames, there's a hole on either end of the frame and that's it. The rest you got to figure out yourself. Most people use full length housing and wrap it into some sort of foam. There's a housing damper kit by Jagwire. That's what I used.
I have no idea when the frame or wheel will show up so I’m asking all the questions I can think of ahead of time and getting everything ready for my first build
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You can easily route a brake cable with a good magnet in any frame.
Then put the end of the cable into the hose, like 5-10cm.
And gently push the hose into the frame.
The brake cable with its rigidity will guide the hose trough the eventual twists.
what type of hose are we talking?
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what type of hose are we talking?
Jagwire ZSK600 Foam for Inner Tubes/Tubes, Unisex, Adult, Black
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C32KBG9/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=AMY4I718ZUBOU&psc=1
Don't ask why they named it above (Unisex, Adult...)..... ;D ..but is it for brake/shifter hoses
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I think most bikes either use a foam or some type of retainer guide for the hose in the frame.
On my wife's Canyon Aeroroad, they have the hoses running through the downtube & are zip tied & I don't know if they have foam cover as above
Some people have reported rattling in the Canyon frame, but those might be older models
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Heres the routing kit I ordered for $16
Looks like an exact clone of the ParkTool one which is way overpriced at $67
BESNIN Internal Cable Routing kit Bicycle Internal Cable Routing Tool Cycling Bike Internal Cable Routing Tool for Bicycle Frame Put Out Inner Wire
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5WVXRWL?psc=1&smid=AZHOINDEUNJQ8&ref_=chk_typ_imgToDp
This one has good reviews & is on sale & I will need it at some point when I work on the Canyon or my Madone
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Reply from Chris @Velobuild with a pix of the cable routing
It's for the disc version, though my frame is a rim brake. Still good to see how the cables are routed
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In above diagram the cable for front derailleur is routed above the BB or below the BB? Or it doesn't matter
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In above diagram the cable for front derailleur is routed above the BB or below the BB? Or it doesn't matter
In the photo it's routed under the BB. If the 218 is anything like the 177, then the cable surely has to go under the BB. There's not really enough space to go over, the bend would probably be too tight anyway
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Chris just confirmed that the pix is for the 099, but the routing is identical for the 218 disc
For the rim version the fd and rd cables will go thru bottom tube and the rear rim brake cable will go through top tube
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The 218 is massive at the bottom bracket. Plenty of space there. I found it easier to route the cables above the crank spindle. You could route it below. But it’s tighter there. And particularly with the front rd I’d be worried that the cable moves and rubs at the crank spindle.
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The 218 is massive at the bottom bracket. Plenty of space there. I found it easier to route the cables above the crank spindle. You could route it below. But it’s tighter there. And particularly with the front rd I’d be worried that the cable moves and rubs at the crank spindle.
Did you have to do any filing inside the BB, where they added a bolt that’s sticking up a bit
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Did you have to do any filing inside the BB, where they added a bolt that’s sticking up a bit
No. My Campagnolo crank has a 25mm spindle which just about does not rub. Shimano 24mm and SRAM GXP with 24mm will be fine as well. But SRAM Dub might rub and BB30 definitely will, I guess.
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Hello everyone. I would also like to buy a frame with rim brakes.
I saw that on the geometry table from velobuild and aliexpress the size S is from velob. a A=53cm and ali CF=50cm.
I think the velobuild table is wrong, am I right? I like it when the seat post sticks out a lot.
I'm 173cm, should size S fit?
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Hello everyone. I would also like to buy a frame with rim brakes.
I saw that on the geometry table from velobuild and aliexpress the size S is from velob. a A=53cm and ali CF=50cm.
I think the velobuild table is wrong, am I right? I like it when the seat post sticks out a lot.
I'm 173cm, should size S fit?
173cm = 5' 6"
I am 5' 10" & ride a size 56cm Trek & Chris recommended a XL 218 frame for me.
Take this comparison I did for my own bike & then add/remove sizes with your own existing bike & get an idea of the the geometry
https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/trek-madone-2021-56-cm,velobuild-vb-r-218-2022-525-xl,velobuild-vb-r-218-2022-520-l/
After that email Chris @velo & tell him your height & send a pix of your comparison to him & he will be able to guide you on frame size & handlebars
They are responsive & very nice to work with
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173cm = 5' 6"
I am 5' 10" & ride a size 56cm Trek & Chris recommended a XL 218 frame for me.
I have a size m and am bang on 6'. Handlebar stem is 400x110. My ride before was a canyon aroad 2019 in size m.
And i find the frame big enough. So I wouldnt go for xl.
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I have a size m and am bang on 6'. Handlebar stem is 400x110. My ride before was a canyon aroad 2019 in size m.
And i find the frame big enough. So I wouldnt go for xl.
Little late in the day, as I already paid for the frame & it will be shipped or has shipped (I have no idea)
I also had multiple email exchanges with Chris & sent him the same link below before placing the order
I checked the geometry for the L & XL against my existing Trek Madone SL7 & the XL is +0.6/-0.6 mm difference (See below)
https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/trek-madone-2021-56-cm,velobuild-vb-r-218-2022-525-xl,velobuild-vb-r-218-2022-520-l/
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just checking what's everyone all up wt.? Im at 22lbs with 55mm depth X 28mm wide wheels.
correction 19lbs or 9kg with pedals bottle cages, and garmin mount
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Hello everyone. I would also like to buy a frame with rim brakes.
I saw that on the geometry table from velobuild and aliexpress the size S is from velob. a A=53cm and ali CF=50cm.
I think the velobuild table is wrong, am I right? I like it when the seat post sticks out a lot.
I'm 173cm, should size S fit?
you may want to size down Im 6 4 and i have the xl. unless you have a long torso.
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you may want to size down Im 6 4 and i have the xl. unless you have a long torso.
so you recommend me a smaller size (xs)?
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so you recommend me a smaller size (xs)?
What is the existing road bike you use and it's size ?
Send that info over to Chris @velobuild & see what he says. In the meantime also use geometrygeeks above and outing your existing bike & size & add in S/M/L etc for the 218 & compare the differences
That will be the starting point which will help you make an informed decision
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Anyone know of any aero bars (tri bars) that would work with this handlebar?
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just checking what's everyone all up wt.? Im at 22lbs with 55mm depth X 28mm wide wheels.
wow almost 10kg. Thats quite alot.
I dont have a scale but it doesnt feel heavier than my canyon aeroad cf sl in m. that weighs 7.5kg. So mine weighs approx. 7.5kg-8kg. Its rimbrake and has 38mm elitewheels ent wheels (1550gr)
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All right, received my frame yesterday. the box was pretty damaged, but not velobuild fault of course. Frame does not look hit or damaged, except for the derailleur hanger that was bent a lot. I hope the frame did not have a truck sitting on it for 2 days ::)
Tried a few things while waiting for parts. About the seat/handlebar bolts, where did you put the long ones? Definitely too long for the seat clamp, but also sticking out of handlebar. Did I receive longer bolts than what they usually send? Are they sticking out of your handlebar as well? Around 3mm.
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wow almost 10kg. Thats quite alot.
I dont have a scale but it doesnt feel heavier than my canyon aeroad cf sl in m. that weighs 7.5kg. So mine weighs approx. 7.5kg-8kg. Its rimbrake and has 38mm elitewheels ent wheels (1550gr)
Mine's a size XXL/57.5 with rim brakes. Weight is 7.7kg with 60mm tubulars / 8kg with tubeless clinchers in 60mm depth.
That includes bottle cages, Garmin mount and Assioma Power Meter pedals
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All right, received my frame yesterday. the box was pretty damaged, but not velobuild fault of course. Frame does not look hit or damaged, except for the derailleur hanger that was bent a lot. I hope the frame did not have a truck sitting on it for 2 days ::)
Tried a few things while waiting for parts. About the seat/handlebar bolts, where did you put the long ones? Definitely too long for the seat clamp, but also sticking out of handlebar. Did I receive longer bolts than what they usually send? Are they sticking out of your handlebar as well? Around 3mm.
Yes, the handlebar bolts are sticking out. Though, 3mm sounds like a lot. It doesn't bother me that much but I might swap them out for shorter ones at some point.
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Went back & forth over email on this & despite asking "Chris" to add in 2 extra short bolts, they seem to have added another whole set of extra long bolts, so I guess I will find out when the frame shows up here ;D
Replacement titanium bolts are pretty cheap or I guess just walk/drive to the LBS & ask them for a pair of bolts
If you guys wind up using different bolts please post the metric sizes.
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I ordered M5x12mm screws for stem to fork tube tightening along with nut because my stem came with those nuts - if your stem doesn't have the nut then you need M5x16mm, two M5x40mm + two M5x25mm for handlebar to stem tightening, M6x30mm flat top for stem cap, M5x16mm for bottle holder and just to fill the holes on the fork.
I believe almost all bikes have same measurement because same screws fit on my Cannondale and Giant too.
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Wheels should show up this week, 8 days in transit
Frame was finally shipped out today per email despite being ordered and paid for on Nov 4th
Might show up in Dec. No tracking info.
Is anyone using a chain catcher in their setup and did you guys install a chain stay protection on the rear ?
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Mine also shipped the 22nd after ordering on the fourth and I got tracking information. I would just ask their support for tracking information. Mine is being shipped via FedEx.
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Wheels showed up & are sitting in the box behind me.
Will open up everything once frame arrives.
Frame is now somewhere in Tennessee after having gone through Hong Kong & Alaska
Meanwhile, I wound up buying even more stuff on Amazon, including a Campagnolo chain catcher.
I was on the fence about this till I remembered my sram force dropped the front chain & that got stuck so bad, we had to remove the crank.
The guys at Trek had forgotten to align the chain guard on the Madone within spec & it dropped under high torque/speed
I thought about painting the frame myself, but at this point I will leave it raw/matte & add a couple of decals on it & clearcoat that
add in conti tubes & vittoria corsa tires & inner liners & the campy record 12spd groupset & bike is done & probably the dura-ace spd pedals, which are on my other bikes & can take an incredible amount of abuse.
Finish off the handlebar with Bontrager super tack tape, same as on my madone sl7, which is holding up very well.
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Ordered mine in xl and working on the paint with chris.... going to have to do some stencil design.
Yay so close.
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Ordered mine in xl and working on the paint with chris.... going to have to do some stencil design.
Yay so close.
Mine is showing up in the next couple of hours.
Are you airbrushing on the decals yourself or having it done outside ?
I have a couple of designs in my head that I want to get done & put on the frame & clearcoated
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Mine is showing up in the next couple of hours.
Are you airbrushing on the decals yourself or having it done outside ?
I have a couple of designs in my head that I want to get done & put on the frame & clearcoated
Did your frame show yet? Having trouble getting my bottom bracket threaded in both sides.
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Did your frame show yet? Having trouble getting my bottom bracket threaded in both sides.
Should be here by 4:30 PM PST per Fedex
Mine is the rim brake version with BSA threads, so remember crank side is left threaded, ie lefty-tighty (double check this)
1. Check threads for any paints & clean the inside very carefully with a shop towel & isopropyl alcohol to get any gunk out of the threads
2. DO NOT force the threads. if doubt take it to local shop where they can get the bracket in for you or rethread if needed.
3. Ideally, you should be able to use a light smear of grease, polylube1000 or asc-1 (anti-seize) & be able to screw the bottoms in & finger tighten them without cross-threading
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Box showed up..... somewhat opened/dented
Parts all over the bottom of the box. I will post a pix on these, as I am not sure if I'm actually missing parts/screws/caps now or if everything is included
Frame is wrapped & not opened yet & will examine this after work & take a pix
If someone can post a pix of their parts after opening the box, it would be appreciated....
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Should be here by 4:30 PM PST per Fedex
Mine is the rim brake version with BSA threads, so remember crank side is left threaded, ie lefty-tighty (double check this)
1. Check threads for any paints & clean the inside very carefully with a shop towel & isopropyl alcohol to get any gunk out of the threads
2. DO NOT force the threads. if doubt take it to local shop where they can get the bracket in for you or rethread if needed.
3. Ideally, you should be able to use a light smear of grease, polylube1000 or asc-1 (anti-seize) & be able to screw the bottoms in & finger tighten them without cross-threading
Thanks, I got it. Paint in the threads was worse than it looked. Used a wire brush and an older BSA BB I had lying around to test/chase the threads with until it was butter. I had file down the center rivet almost flat to get my DUB BB to fit. Thankfully the provided bolt is already short enough so that didn't need any modification.
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Here's the pix of all the parts that fell into & out of the box as soon as it was opened
I think I am missing the Garmin mount that I paid for & probably the top cap cover
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Thanks, I got it. Paint in the threads was worse than it looked. Used a wire brush and an older BSA BB I had lying around to test/chase the threads with until it was butter. I had file down the center rivet almost flat to get my DUB BB to fit. Thankfully the provided bolt is already short enough so that didn't need any modification.
Just checked my box & frame & there almost no paint in the threads in the BB.
I am missing stem cover with "P" logo or whatever, Garmin mount & optional skewers for the rims (I don't know if they actually send those with the frame or not)
I have 2 alum pieces & 3 metals pieces (which go on teh frame), or I have no ideas where those are used
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Just checked my box & frame & there almost no paint in the threads in the BB.
I am missing stem cover with "P" logo or whatever, Garmin mount & optional skewers for the rims (I don't know if they actually send those with the frame or not)
I have 2 alum pieces & 3 metals pieces (which go on teh frame), or I have no ideas where those are used
You’re missing a couple headset spacer items. I got a Garmin mount that came with my frame. You seem to have an extra set of grub screws for yours. Lol what a mess. Are you US based? I actually bought spare headset spacers and might be able to help you out if velobuild is painful on getting you your parts.
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You’re missing a couple headset spacer items. I got a Garmin mount that came with my frame. You seem to have an extra set of grub screws for yours. Lol what a mess. Are you US based? I actually bought spare headset spacers and might be able to help you out if velobuild is painful on getting you your parts.
Just sent you a PM. I have emailed Chris on the missing parts, but I am confused on what parts should actually be there
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Here's the pix of all the parts that fell into & out of the box as soon as it was opened
I think I am missing the Garmin mount that I paid for & probably the top cap cover
You are missing the top cap and most importantly you are missing the upper headset bearing cap that the two piece spacers sit on top of.
The black metal parts are the wedges for the seatpost and handlebar. For those you’ll need the grub screws. The two piece silver aluminium part is a Di2 battery adapter. You can ignore that if you’re using a mechanical groupset. There’s also a battery holder inside attached to the bottom bracket cover that you won’t need.
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Here's a cleaner pix taken 5 min ago & added numbers & folks can correct me if I am wrong
1. Headset compression plug
2. Bearing #1
3. Bearing #1 bottom race
4. Bearing #2
5. Bearing #2 top race
6. Various screws for seat-post etc
7. Spacer (big)
8. Spacer (small)
9. Bottom or top ?
10. Wedge for ?
11. Wedge for ?
12. Wedge for ?
13. Di2 battery adapter
I think I am missing only the top cap & the garmin mount at this point.
Does anything look broken or missing to you guys ?
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#9 looks like dust cap. All your headset spacers will go on top of it
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Here's a cleaner pix taken 5 min ago & added numbers & folks can correct me if I am wrong
1. Headset compression plug
2. Bearing #1
3. Bearing #1 bottom race
4. Bearing #2
5. Bearing #2 top race
6. Various screws for seat-post etc
7. Spacer (big)
8. Spacer (small)
9. Bottom (goes ontop of 5 and is keyed)
10. Wedge for seat post
11. Wedge for stem
12. Wedge for seat post
13. Di2 battery adapter
I think I am missing only the top cap & the garmin mount at this point.
Does anything look broken or missing to you guys ?
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Ok I finished my paint scheme.... what does every one think? the inside of the stays and fork will be pink too. I need to make the mask for the purple paint transition. But getting chris to tell me the file type needed is like pulling teeth. I hope they can do it. otherwise I will have to and it will be a pain.
I need to get some stickers made to say Skull-ma... and Bonerello... haha
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Paint scheme looks awesome
“Donatello” for a more Italian name + skull with turtle shell and bandanna should look …..
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Paint scheme looks awesome
“Donatello” for a more Italian name + skull with turtle shell and bandanna should look …..
How about we say we did but don't actually... I am the queen of skulls and I have to ride a skull pun bike
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How about we say we did but don't actually... I am the queen of skulls and I have to ride a skull pun bike
Post some when done. It will be great to see some artwork
How did you get the decals done ?
Are they painted on or vinyl and clearcoat ?
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Post some when done. It will be great to see some artwork
How did you get the decals done ?
Are they painted on or vinyl and clearcoat ?
For the lettering I am probably going to do vinyl lettering just so I can take them off if I get board with it. I am going to have velo build do the paint. And if they dont clear coat it. I may do a logo on the head tube and clear coat it.
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Here's the pix of all the parts that fell into & out of the box as soon as it was opened
I think I am missing the Garmin mount that I paid for & probably the top cap cover
#9 is the top headset bearing dust cover. Contrary to the spacers, this one is mandatory because it seamlessly integrates between the handlebar and the frame
#10 and 12 is the two piece wedge that goes into the little pocket behind the seatpost.
#11 is the wedge that goes inbetween the handlebar and the steerer tube.
#13 is the Di2 adapter. You won't need that for your build.
Be careful with #5 - I found it to have sharp edges and sanded them smooth to protect the carbon steerer tube. But the aluminium is super thin in places and it can easily bend and break if you're not careful. I've bent mine back in shape but ordered a replacement just to be safe.
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Hi People,
Just wanted to give a long term update.
So I am overall happy with the bike. Have been riding for the last 4 weeks with a pause of 7 days in between. My Garmin says I rode around 700kms.
The bike handles great, with the right tyre pressure it isnt unforgiving or anything like that. I am okay with the weight ca. 7,5kg and the china ee brakes hold up fine. I have my problems with getting the sensah team shifting go alright with the 105 groupset. Scored a good deal on some dura ace shifters. I will probably put them on after the winter. That should sort out any weird shifting issues.
2 things that really grind my gears (next to the shifting issues - huehuehue) are the following: After just 3 rides one of the bottle cages I bought from velo build broke. It was the one on the seat tube. So I am guessing it is a construction error and the weight of the bottle caused this mishap. The piece on the bottom broke of. Have told chris about it, he said its under warranty and he will send new ones. Haven't heard from him since...
The other thing happenend today. I rode over some rough terrain, namely cobblestones and my garmin mount snapped of with a loud bang. It was wobbly from the start and honestly I was waiting for it to happen...
Lets see how chris handles this.
What this does though, is leave a sour taste in my mouth. What if my frame or my steerer just snap like that? Havent had any weird noises when riding, but it makes me anxious somewhat.
How is it with all you guys? any similar probs?
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I rode over some rough terrain, namely cobblestones and my garmin mount snapped of with a loud bang. It was wobbly from the start and honestly I was waiting for it to happen...
Lets see how chris handles this.
What this does though, is leave a sour taste in my mouth. What if my frame or my steerer just snap like that? Havent had any weird noises when riding, but it makes me anxious somewhat.
Where exactly did the Garmin mount break? I bought one from Chris as well. Mine's a pretty hefty piece of aluminium and I doubt it will ever break. Also, the threaded inserts in the handlebar where this thing attaches don't give me the impression that they would break or become loose easily. They seem to be bonded in well. How and where exactly did yours wobble?
About carbon bottle cages: Yeah, I bought a few from Ali and basically all of them either broke on me or were so flexy that I'd be losing my bottles all the time. I since decided that bottle cages aren't something I want to save weight on. There's not much in it anyway between a good nylon plastic cage and a carbon one.
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It broke off right at the screw holes. Havent tightened the screws too hard... Mine was made from carbon and it was wobbly from the start. Just really flexi. How would you proceed with this? Does anybody have a good mount they would recommend? I thinking of buying a original most mount, so that won't happen again.
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Ok I finished my paint scheme.... what does every one think? the inside of the stays and fork will be pink too. I need to make the mask for the purple paint transition. But getting chris to tell me the file type needed is like pulling teeth. I hope they can do it. otherwise I will have to and it will be a pain.
I need to get some stickers made to say Skull-ma... and Bonerello... haha
I love it!
If you haven't already, you might want to pick out the Pantone / RAL color codes unless you trust Velobuild to match them. It can be a bit difficult to match digital color samples to reality. (This is coming from a guy whose dark blue bike is actually purple...)
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It broke off right at the screw holes. Havent tightened the screws too hard... Mine was made from carbon and it was wobbly from the start. Just really flexi. How would you proceed with this? Does anybody have a good mount they would recommend? I thinking of buying a original most mount, so that won't happen again.
Get these from Amazon. I've bought these multiple times for different bikes & never had any issues
My wife can find a way to stuff the most oversized bottle in these & they have held up
ThinkTop 2 Pack Ultra-Light Full Carbon Fiber Bicycle Bike Drink Water Bottle Cage
https://www.amazon.com/ThinkTop-Bike-Water-Bottle-Cage/dp/B07D6NCQCP/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=ThinkTop+2+Pack+Ultra-Light+Full+Carbon+Fiber+Bicycle+Bike+Drink+Water+Bottle+Cage+Holder+Brackets+for+Road+Bike+MTB+Cycling&qid=1669826476&sr=8-1
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#9 is the top headset bearing dust cover. Contrary to the spacers, this one is mandatory because it seamlessly integrates between the handlebar and the frame
#10 and 12 is the two piece wedge that goes into the little pocket behind the seatpost.
#11 is the wedge that goes inbetween the handlebar and the steerer tube.
#13 is the Di2 adapter. You won't need that for your build.
Be careful with #5 - I found it to have sharp edges and sanded them smooth to protect the carbon steerer tube. But the aluminium is super thin in places and it can easily bend and break if you're not careful. I've bent mine back in shape but ordered a replacement just to be safe.
Thanks, that clarified things a lot.
For the freehub, do you guys put any lubricant on the hub before adding cassette or just add cassette & then anti-seize lube to threads on lockring ?
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Shimano green colored grease on the hub before putting in cassette.
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Shimano green colored grease on the hub before putting in cassette.
Thanks. I'm looking this up and seeing different responses online
My freehub/pawl is a Campagnolo
1. Do not use grease on the pawl/hub spline when adding a cassette
2. Use a very thin coating of Triflow teflon so the cassette won't seize later on (the locking threads use anti-seize)
3. Use shimano/sram paste per above.
Wheels are Elite-Drive 50V, which I think have ceramic bearings. I added conti tubes + extenders last night & Vittoria Corsa tires which went on with some effort & inflated to 90 psi & left
them in the garage overnight.
There was some "popping" sound as the tube was being seated during inflation & it sounded like the carbon spokes, but everything checked out fine
I might deflate the tires & add in the Rhinidillos blue liner, as I do for all my other wheels & then set the psi to 110
I used this tool to get the tire on & it was worth every penny & it did not scratch the carbon at all
I've pretty much scratched my Bontrager & Reynolds carbon wheels using regular conti or park tool levers. This tool is much easier to use
BIKEHAND Bike Bicycle Tire Lever Cycling Repair Tool Spoon - Install Difficult Wire Bead and Stubborn Tires - Tire Bead Jack Changing Mounting Seating Tool
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CW912J0/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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Get these from Amazon. I've bought these multiple times for different bikes & never had any issues
My wife can find a way to stuff the most oversized bottle in these & they have held up
ThinkTop 2 Pack Ultra-Light Full Carbon Fiber Bicycle Bike Drink Water Bottle Cage
https://www.amazon.com/ThinkTop-Bike-Water-Bottle-Cage/dp/B07D6NCQCP/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=ThinkTop+2+Pack+Ultra-Light+Full+Carbon+Fiber+Bicycle+Bike+Drink+Water+Bottle+Cage+Holder+Brackets+for+Road+Bike+MTB+Cycling&qid=1669826476&sr=8-1
Nice thanks! Do you have a recommendation for the garmin mount as well? Chris said he wants to send a new mount and bottle cages. Lets see if they are any better.
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For the freehub, do you guys put any lubricant on the hub before adding cassette or just add cassette & then anti-seize lube to threads on lockring ?
Never. And I don't see why you should, at least with aluminium freehubs. If the cassette is hard to get off, it's usually because of cassette bite. Grease will do nothing to alleviate that problem. Campagnolo freehubs have taller splines however and cassette bite is much less of an issue.
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Never. And I don't see why you should, at least with aluminium freehubs. If the cassette is hard to get off, it's usually because of cassette bite. Grease will do nothing to alleviate that problem. Campagnolo freehubs have taller splines however and cassette bite is much less of an issue.
Thanks.
Cassette went on smoothly after I watched a few videos which showed me how to align everything with the notch.
Added a light coating of parktool asc-1 antiseize to the locking threads & torqued to 40nm & added tubes & tires
I might deflate the tires tomorrow & add in blue Rhinodillo liners as the vittoria's are more prone to punctures & theres always broken glass/debris on the road on the way to the dedicated bike path
I took a brief look at the paper manual/foldout that came in the campy cassette box & to my amusement, their US support office is in Carlsbad, literally 9 miles down from me.
Will start on rest of build tomorrow / fri night & try to get it done over the weekend.
Chris replied that they would send out the missing top cap, but I guess I can still get the build done without that, as all the other parts are there & get an idea of where I need to cut the steerer
The geometry is very similar to my existing Madone SL7 +-/2cm in some places, so I expect the reach to be the same & the seatpost to be a bit higher, so that height will be lowered to compensate.
Elite-Wheels Drive 50V are pretty darn good with the ceramic bearings, though they shipped it with Shimano Dura-Ace brake pads that I gave to my neighbor
I emailed support asking about the pads compatibility & they got mixed up & decided to ship out another set of wheels ;D, resulting in a mad scramble to stop them from sending something I hadn't paid for
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Can anyone post the following pix, if their parts are not in the bike as yet
1. Headset compression plug
2. Top cap & screw/bolt
Basically my plug above has a bolt that is completely smooth on top, so I'm not sure how after putting it into the tube, I'm supposed to tighten it or torque it
or maybe I'm just looking at it wrong....
Edit:
Never mind....my mistake. The bolt had a plastic top that was probably added on with locktite
The compression plug looks a little small in length, in my opinion & from checking the Madone I will probably need atleast 2 more spacers
At this point it might be cheaper for me to go to my local shop & buy the actual Pinarello top cap + spacers + headset plug for $35 & be done with it
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Still waiting on a couple things but I put some spare components on to go for a ride. This thing is great!
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Still waiting on a couple things but I put some spare components on to go for a ride. This thing is great!
Beautiful bike
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The compression plug looks a little small in length, in my opinion & from checking the Madone I will probably need atleast 2 more spacers
At this point it might be cheaper for me to go to my local shop & buy the actual Pinarello top cap + spacers + headset plug for $35 & be done with it
I always try to use an expander plug that protrudes the full length of the stem and preferably down til the upper headset bearing. That’s why on this bike I used the longer Deda expander that’s available. But with the height of the top caps on today‘s modern fully integrated frames and with the amount of spacers that most people run this becomes more or less impossible. The plug that VB deliver is OKish. There’s worse designs out there. But I prefer longer ones for peace of mind. The long Deda one is 7cm I think. There’s areas on the bike better suited to saving weight.
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I always try to use an expander plug that protrudes the full length of the stem and preferably down til the upper headset bearing. That’s why on this bike I used the longer Deda expander that’s available. But with the height of the top caps on today‘s modern fully integrated frames and with the amount of spacers that most people run this becomes more or less impossible. The plug that VB deliver is OKish. There’s worse designs out there. But I prefer longer ones for peace of mind. The long Deda one is 7cm I think. There’s areas on the bike better suited to saving weight.
Post a link to the dead plug or let me know if this one will fit
https://www.incycle.com/products/most-stem-1k-aero-top-cap-cmpplug
I don’t know when Chris will ship out the missing part and extra spacers
If the above fits I might as well use a higher quality part and solve the missing cap issue in one go
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Post a link to the dead plug or let me know if this one will fit
https://www.incycle.com/products/most-stem-1k-aero-top-cap-cmpplug
I don’t know when Chris will ship out the missing part and extra spacers
If the above fits I might as well use a higher quality part and solve the missing cap issue in one go
This is the one I’m talking about: https://dedaelementi.com/expander-70
You can of course use any other top cap with it.
The original Pinarello expander is fine as well, obviously. It seems to be around 40mm long which is pretty standard. Like I said before, I prefer longer expanders.
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Thanks. Looks like the link is for eu and I was unable to find the same part here that would ship in time
Will check Amazon and I think they have the 70mm with a red top
Did you wind up cutting your steerer tube to size after doing a test fit ?
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Thanks. Looks like the link is for eu and I was unable to find the same part here that would ship in time
Will check Amazon and I think they have the 70mm with a red top
Did you wind up cutting your steerer tube to size after doing a test fit ?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/384953767375
California based seller.
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Some general notes.
Better sized grub screws are stem and seat post.
Seat post: 2x M6x12mm 1.0mm thread pitch
- result is a nice flush fit
Stem: 2x M6x12mm 1.0mm thread pitch
-semi recessed, much better than stock
Check your local Home Depot for availability:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/M6-1-0-x-12-mm-Alloy-Socket-Set-Screws-2-Pack-813898/204274349 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/M6-1-0-x-12-mm-Alloy-Socket-Set-Screws-2-Pack-813898/204274349)
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Some general notes.
Better sized grub screws are stem and seat post.
Seat post: 2x M6x12mm 1.0mm thread pitch
- result is a nice flush fit
Stem: 2x M6x12mm 1.0mm thread pitch
-semi recessed, much better than stock
Check your local Home Depot for availability:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/M6-1-0-x-12-mm-Alloy-Socket-Set-Screws-2-Pack-813898/204274349 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/M6-1-0-x-12-mm-Alloy-Socket-Set-Screws-2-Pack-813898/204274349)
Lifesaver...... thanks...... since I dropped one screw somewhere in the garage ;D
I found top cap & plug for $10 more in Escondidio & headed out to pick that up in 30 min.
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Some general notes.
Better sized grub screws are stem and seat post.
Seat post: 2x M6x12mm 1.0mm thread pitch
- result is a nice flush fit
Stem: 2x M6x12mm 1.0mm thread pitch
-semi recessed, much better than stock
Check your local Home Depot for availability:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/M6-1-0-x-12-mm-Alloy-Socket-Set-Screws-2-Pack-813898/204274349 (https://www.homedepot.com/p/M6-1-0-x-12-mm-Alloy-Socket-Set-Screws-2-Pack-813898/204274349)
Thanks! That's really helpful. Personally, the seatpost screws being recessed doesn't really bother me that much. I'm covering it up with tape anyway. But the stem bolts just don't look right sticking out like that.
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Thanks! That's really helpful. Personally, the seatpost screws being recessed doesn't really bother me that much. I'm covering it up with tape anyway. But the stem bolts just don't look right sticking out like that.
See I installed it the other way round. Longer hardware in the seat post and shorter in the stem. It also material. I don't know what the stock hardware is made out of but the Home Depot stuff tells you right there.
Here is a bit more information from Pinarello. https://pinarello.com/storage/download/7aa0c78fe7bd3423eab73c73b65f818b.pdf
These are the torque specs. (not saying they should be exactly the same since its the F12 but I ballparked most around these values.
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See I installed it the other way round. Longer hardware in the seat post and shorter in the stem. It also material. I don't know what the stock hardware is made out of but the Home Depot stuff tells you right there.
Here is a bit more information from Pinarello. https://pinarello.com/storage/download/7aa0c78fe7bd3423eab73c73b65f818b.pdf
These are the torque specs. (not saying they should be exactly the same since its the F12 but I ballparked most around these values.
Thanks again. Some good info, there.
Interesting: The rear brake housing for rim brakes is supposed to be routed through the hole on the right hand side of the steerer. I did route it like that but thought I've done it wrong after assembling the bike. Because traditionally with external routing, the rear brake would be routed around the steerer on the opposite side. AND: If I turn the bars all the way to the left, I cannot pull the rear brake. I'm not sure why. The cable seems to be compressed in a way that completely stops the cable from moving. It doesn't bother me. I would never have the bars in that position on the road anyway and braking is perfectly smooth otherwise. Still, instinctively I would route the cable on the other side.
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Picked up top cap & plug @Bike Bling in Escondido, who are an exclusive Pinarello & Orbea bike shop
They were amused when I walked in with the fork & handlebar, but were super helpful & make sure the parts fit etc & pointed out where the carbon weave direction differed
against the existing Dogma F & gave me a bunch of helpful info, since this is my first build
Image attached for existing compression plugs vs the pinarello one.
The newer one is slightly longer & the top & plug screws are different.
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I'm missing one or two end pieces on the frame where the cable would exit for the brake or shifter
I think these are hard plastic or rubber.
Anyone know what they are called & where I can get spares ?
Rest of the frame looks fine & I just did a quick wipe down after unwrap with a cloth
BB threads seem to be fine with no indication of any heavy paint on them
Another small screw fell out of the frame (small silver grub), so I guess they did include 4 long & 4 short screws per my request
Bottom bracket bolt insert in frame seems a bit high, but I may not need to file that down as per @Sebastian, the Campy crank spindle @25mm can fit with no issues with rubbing
So i'll do a test fit with the BB cups later & check & see if everything looks ok & hopefully everything will fit.
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I'm missing one or two end pieces on the frame where the cable would exit for the brake or shifter
I think these are hard plastic or rubber.
Anyone know what they are called & where I can get spares ?
Cable stoppers? Cable guides? Mind you though, for rear derailleur and brake they are of different sizes and shapes. It would be helpful if you can post picture of the frame where it's supposed to come out from.
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Cable stoppers? Cable guides? Mind you though, for rear derailleur and brake they are of different sizes and shapes. It would be helpful if you can post picture of the frame where it's supposed to come out from.
Here's the pix. May it doesn't have a stopper/grommet & I was just mistaken
See attached pix. I just went & bought a 20 pack of frame plugs for $8 & if its not needed, they can go back unopened.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09LQP1M2B/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Green mat is my wife's yoga mat (I didn't know that at the time) which was used & now has grease on it & has now becoming the assembly mat :)
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Yup. The shape of those cable guides is what you need though I'm a little skeptical of how well they will hold. The one that comes from VB have a deep pinch pin that goes inside the frame. I received something like this :
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mMxLOX2
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After an hour struggling with the left side BB cup, I gave up
I cleaned the BB out with isopropyl alcohol & tried the left Campy Ultra Torque cup & no matter what I tried, I cant get the threads to bite or screw it in
I believe left side is anti-clockwise to tighten
I also put a touch of parktool polylube 1000 on the inner threads just so I wouldn't strip them out
Finally gave up in sheer frustration & just put crank on other side & took a quick pix to check clearance against the inner bolt & that looks fine.
To me the threads look clean, but then again I am extremely short sighted so its a bit hard for me to gauge that.
Edit:
GRRRRR.... I was in the wrong direction on the non-drive side........will try again in 1 hour
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xUlvBBxRFo
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and fixed......
Some PPL-1 on the threads & patience & both sides for BB cups fit perfectly
However, I did not torque them & I forgot it had that campy yellow threadlocker on it & it was pain to remove the cups because I needed to file down the bolt inside the frame by a tiny bit
This time I cleaned the the threads on the cups & used light painters tape over the BB for now till I figure out my cables issues
This is a Campy record groupset & the 5mm housing looks like its for the brakes & the 4mm for the shifters.
The shifter cables are already on the the levers making it really annoying to try to get them on the handlebars
I now have 5 pieces of housing 3 x 4mm (shifters) & 2 x 5mm (brakes)
From the looks of it, some of the housing is simply not long enough to go through the handlebar & into the frame to the frame exit point (FD/RD)
So some of the cable will be bare inside the frame & since theres no downtube access hatch & guide point as in the Pinarello F12, I'm not sure if the bare cable will be hitting anything or rubbing against the frame & not cause any issues.
Also, is there a direction the cable housing should be laid out in the handlebar
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and fixed......
Some PPL-1 on the threads & patience & both sides for BB cups fit perfectly
However, I did not torque them & I forgot it had that campy yellow threadlocker on it & it was pain to remove the cups because I needed to file down the bolt inside the frame by a tiny bit
This time I cleaned the the threads on the cups & used light painters tape over the BB for now till I figure out my cables issues
This is a Campy record groupset & the 5mm housing looks like its for the brakes & the 4mm for the shifters.
The shifter cables are already on the the levers making it really annoying to try to get them on the handlebars
I now have 5 pieces of housing 3 x 4mm (shifters) & 2 x 5mm (brakes)
From the looks of it, some of the housing is simply not long enough to go through the handlebar & into the frame to the frame exit point (FD/RD)
So some of the cable will be bare inside the frame & since theres no downtube access hatch & guide point as in the Pinarello F12, I'm not sure if the bare cable will be hitting anything or rubbing against the frame & not cause any issues.
Also, is there a direction the cable housing should be laid out in the handlebar
There's only one piece of rubber on the rim brake frame - where the rear derailleur cable exits the frame.
Also, my advice is to keep the cables in the shifters when installing them. They do a really tight bend on top of the shifter and it's easy to kink the cable when routing it through there.
Lastly on the housing: Yes, 5mm is for brakes, 4mm is for shifter cables. You can also tell them apart because shifter housing is compressionless and much harder to cut. You can see that the housing is reinforced with lots of wires in circular order.
DO NOT run the cables bare through the frame without anything to guide them. The frame is designed for full length housing. Campagnolo annoyingly does not deliver housing long enough. The pieces they deliver are designed for traditional externally routed frames. Also, they do not sell their housing any longer to my knowledge. So just go to your LBS and get brake and shifter housing long enough. They sell it by the meter, or whatever unit you guys are using in California :).
If you run the cables bare, I can't imagine it will shift right. There are no cable stops inside the frame so the cables won't be under tension AND even if it did work, the cable would most likely rub through the carbon over time.
I might try and install cable stops with heat glue on my replacement frame. At least for the rear brake. But not sure yet if it's worth it.
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Gave up trying to fiddle with the campy housing and just ordered 20’ of brake housing and 30’ of derailleur housing from jagwire on Amazon
After an intense ;D battle trying to get the 5mm housing into the handlebar, I realized that it simply wasn’t long enough to reach the rear of the bike and the exit point hole for the rear rim is so small, I can’t even put a wire through it never mind the housing. I might have to enlarge that a bit with a drill bit
The derailleur housing is 4.1, but the 4mm housing above should work.
Campagnolo included 1x 1’ and 2 x 2’ or less which will not reach the rear of the frame and this housing may have been intended for older bikes with external routing and non integrated handlebars
Edit
….and Seb replied above as I was typing this ……at this point thanks to your posts and detailed emails, I probably owe you a keg or 2 of beer
Yeah, I forgot there was a local shop down the street and I’ll buy a few feet of housing unless the Amazon shipment shows up tomorrow
I do think I will need to drill that hole in the rear for the brake as the exit is so tiny I can just barely get a .09 guitar string in there
I think they forgot to finish that at the factory
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the exit point hole for the rear rim is so small, I can’t even put a wire through it never mind the housing. I might have to enlarge that a bit with a drill bit
Yes, that's what I and a few others here with rim brake frames have done.
It almost looks like the exit hole is designed to act as a cable stop. But there's no cable stop on the other end of the top tube.
I used a drill and widened it by hand. A dremel would probably be even better. I also told Chris that this is an issue with the rim brake frames and he promised to get it sorted on my replacement frame. But it looks exactly the same :)
This is exactly the kind of stuff that you need to be prepared to deal with when ordering frames at that price point.
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……at this point thanks to your posts and detailed emails, I probably owe you a keg or 2 of beer
You're welcome! Glad I could help.
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Is the hosing clamped somewhere on the bottom so it doesn’t hit the spindle ?
You were right about the campy spindle.
There is gap between that and the bolt top, but it is quite small and so I had to file it down a bit, just to make the gap a bit bigger for safety
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Is the hosing clamped somewhere on the bottom so it doesn’t hit the spindle ?
No, there's absolutely nothing in the frame to secure the housings.
I ended up running them short enough so they would bend well above the spindle. On this particular frame there's so much room above the spindle in the BB area that it works quite well. I did not bother with foam dampener. But I should have. It does rattle in the down tube and I can hear it rub when I turn the bars to their extreme left and right. Over time, that might not be too good for the frame. But I'm sure it never rubs in normal riding scenarios. Anyway, once I rebuild this bike on the replacement frame, I will probably address all these issues.
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No, there's absolutely nothing in the frame to secure the housings.
I ended up running them short enough so they would bend well above the spindle. On this particular frame there's so much room above the spindle in the BB area that it works quite well. I did not bother with foam dampener. But I should have. It does rattle in the down tube and I can hear it rub when I turn the bars to their extreme left and right. Over time, that might not be too good for the frame. But I'm sure it never rubs in normal riding scenarios. Anyway, once I rebuild this bike on the replacement frame, I will probably address all these issues.
Ok, while I wait for the new cable housing's to show up, this is the idea I had in mind
Looking at the drive side of the frame, ie rear to your left, fork to your right
1. Rear brake cable housing & foam cover will go through top tube & I will have to enlarge the exit hole
2. Rear derailleur & front derailleur cables now go through down tube & under spindle, near the bottom hatch area
3. FD loops up into seat post to exit & RD continues through rear chain stay
The bottom hatch has a metal cylinder piece attached to it that would hold a Di2 battery or part
1. Simply tie a very thin zip tie at the base of the cylinder where it meets the plastic
2. Before pulling it tight, add 2 small zip tie loops on either size & clip & keep the circumference small for a housing to pass through
3. Add a drop of superglue to zip tie around metal so it wont move
This should allow you to have a foam covering on each housing in the down tube up until the BB starts & then the housing goes on its on
OR
Use a simple cable clamp around the cylinder with a bolt/nut & that makes the base wide enough that it retains the cables in place without needing zip ties or superglue
https://www.amazon.com/TICONN-42PCS-Cable-Clamps-Set/dp/B094YKZBKP/ref=sr_1_13?keywords=metal+cable+retainer&qid=1670342718&sprefix=cable+retainer+meta%2Caps%2C146&sr=8-13
Edit:
After much thought (and 3 more cups of coffee), I realized that any simple rubber O-ring over the metal cylinder pushed to bottom will securely hold the cables on either side as the lower part of the attachment has a plastic base on which the cylinder is sitting
Edit #2
After another cup of coffee & a file I managed to do this as a test fit.
In practice the 3/4" plastic bushing will be reversed & it is a very tight fit & should hold the cable housings in place
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Upon further reflection, the metal piece simply unscrews from the plastic base, so all the above options may not be needed
There is enough space at the base inside the plastic flange where the cylinder used to sit so the cables will sit there & I guess you can just add a small plastic cap on top
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Spoke with 4 different local bike shops & every single one of them declined to work on the frame & drill the rear brake hole.
So at this point I'm going to run the housing internally & have just the brake wire go through the rear hole & then add the sleeve & another short piece of housing
Frankly, I have no idea how I am going to thread the actual cable through this tiny hole, but will figure something out.
Same with the rear & front shifter, but those seem to have rubber or plastic grommets that can be replaced.
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Why not push the cable outer (housing) from the rear brake cable hole towards the handlebar rather than other way around.
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Why not push the cable outer (housing) from the rear brake cable hole towards the handlebar rather than other way around.
The rear hole near the seatpost i so small I can just get a brake cable through it & housing will not fit without drilling the hole & making it larger
The campy groupset housings were way too short so I had to order a 30' roll of jagwire shifter housing which showed up yesterday & a 20' roll of jagwire brake housing which will show up today
I will run a piece of fishing or lawn trimmer line through the hole starting at the rear to front & then put housing on that till it reaches the end of the frame on the rear.
At that point I will fish the actual brake cable through the housing, while removing twine & the cable will go through the hole & I will put a sleeve on it & that will resolve the issue without trying to drill the hole etc etc.
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The rear hole near the seatpost i so small I can just get a brake cable through it & housing will not fit without drilling the hole & making it larger
The campy groupset housings were way too short so I had to order a 30' roll of jagwire shifter housing which showed up yesterday & a 20' roll of jagwire brake housing which will show up today
I will run a piece of fishing or lawn trimmer line through the hole starting at the rear to front & then put housing on that till it reaches the end of the frame on the rear.
At that point I will fish the actual brake cable through the housing, while removing twine & the cable will go through the hole & I will put a sleeve on it & that will resolve the issue without trying to drill the hole etc etc.
I think Sebastian and Coffeebreak have the right idea. I would think you'd have to run the housing all the way to the brake caliper for it to work properly? No way this would work with hydraulic brakes as is, so I would think that useless flap of CF covering the hole is a screw up. Dremel it out, sand it smooth, then run the housing through. It'll operate with or without the plug Coffeebreak linked. The plug will help keep water out of the opening, help guide the housing, and make for a cleaner install, but I would think that you really just need an opening big enough to run the housing through.
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Spoke with 4 different local bike shops & every single one of them declined to work on the frame & drill the rear brake hole.
So at this point I'm going to run the housing internally & have just the brake wire go through the rear hole & then add the sleeve & another short piece of housing
Frankly, I have no idea how I am going to thread the actual cable through this tiny hole, but will figure something out.
Same with the rear & front shifter, but those seem to have rubber or plastic grommets that can be replaced.
You’ll be fine. The frame is not that fragile. Just use a drill. Be careful. Widen the hole. Use a round file to smooth the edges or a bit of rolled sand paper. Run full length brake housing and that’s it. That’s what I did. Everything else will be a bodge. No rubber grommet is needed for that hole. It’s not in a position where water ingress is an issue.
In the early Di2 days Cervelo actually advised customers to drill their frames because they did not come stock with the respective holes.
It’s not like you’re drilling the fork steerer or the handlebar.
Same with the FD and RD. Run full length housing. There’s really no other way of doing it with this frame.
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Ok I could use some expert help here, since I am probably overthinking this
I found an old box in the garage that has a Tack Life toolkit that was a Dremel kit I bought from Amazon in 2018 or so & forgot I had it.
It still works
Pix #1 shows the various bit & speed settings
Pix #2 shows the grinding bits (Grinding wheel in pix #1) & on the extreme right is a bit with a diamond carbide tip (Diamond Grinding Needle in pix#1)
I have never made a hole or tried to work on carbon before
1. Which bit do I use ?
2. What speed setting ?
My main concern is screwing things up & at the moment I still haven't received my garmin mount or other parts from velobuild & Chris hasn't replied, so I don't want to be stuck ordering another frame & going through the whole hassle again
Thanks for all the earlier help as it helped resolve some other issues & I was able to order the extra housings from amazon
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All pix are taken on my desk with my iphone & the brown underlay in the pix is this one
Londo Leather Extended Mouse Pad - Desk Mat
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PVC5ZVL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Very durable & has lasted a few years now, mine is faux leather
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Use actual drills. Start small and go wider gradually. Don’t force it in but rather let it gently eat its way in. 5mm is the diameter of the housing. You’ll need it slightly bigger because the housing enters at an angle. Once it’s big enough you can use those bits to smooth the edges. You need something straight rather than comically shaped to smoothen it evenly throughout.
It’s really not that difficult. The carbon won’t fray or crack that easily. Don’t worry. I mean be gentle and don’t butcher it. But it’s really unlikely that you’ll ruin the frame there in my opinion as long as you go easy and gradually and use good tools.
For what it’s worth: I just used drills and carefully scraped my way through by hand and tested it again and again until the housing fit the way I liked it.
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Also its Dremel so no need to force your way the way you will do it with a normal drill. Set it to high(est) speed and use a straight bit (not conical, as Sebastian said) and touch it ever so lightly on the area to be drilled/sanded - you will see the "impact" and get an idea how much material it is actually removing. I speak from experience - I screwed my fork cut a bit and ended with uneven edge. At first I used Dremel's small grinding wheel to even out the bump to a flat and then used sand paper to make it as flat is possible. Again, Dremel, so use high speed and sand that baby lightly.
Edit, I think personally I will use 3rd bit from right to start with though I have never seen pink ones.
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Use actual drills. Start small and go wider gradually. Don’t force it in but rather let it gently eat its way in. 5mm is the diameter of the housing. You’ll need it slightly bigger because the housing enters at an angle. Once it’s big enough you can use those bits to smooth the edges. You need something straight rather than comically shaped to smoothen it evenly throughout.
It’s really not that difficult. The carbon won’t fray or crack that easily. Don’t worry. I mean be gentle and don’t butcher it. But it’s really unlikely that you’ll ruin the frame there in my opinion as long as you go easy and gradually and use good tools.
For what it’s worth: I just used drills and carefully scraped my way through by hand and tested it again and again until the housing fit the way I liked it.
Ok, will do.
Now, did you use any inline tension adjusters for the FD/RD like these ?
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0029LF1GQ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
I have bought a lot of extra stuff over the last 2 weeks, trying to get this build done & if it's not needed, then I can send them back unopened.
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Now, did you use any inline tension adjusters for the FD/RD like these ?
For the RD it’s not necessary. The adjustment on the RD itself is good enough. For the FD I did think about it but ended up not doing it. You could maybe cram one under the handlebar cover. But I think you would have a hard time actually turning it in that position. Or you could put it under the BB cover so you can access it from there. But piecing two pieces of housing together with an inline adjuster in between and routing it through the exit hole down there is quite fiddly. I think it’s actually easy enough to adjust the FD well enough without any additional adjusters IME. And after a bit of initial cable stretch not much more is happening through the life of a cable, I think. As long as you’re using quality cables, that is.
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For the RD it’s not necessary. The adjustment on the RD itself is good enough. For the FD I did think about it but ended up not doing it. You could maybe cram one under the handlebar cover. But I think you would have a hard time actually turning it in that position. Or you could put it under the BB cover so you can access it from there. But piecing two pieces of housing together with an inline adjuster in between and routing it through the exit hole down there is quite fiddly. I think it’s actually easy enough to adjust the FD well enough without any additional adjusters IME. And after a bit of initial cable stretch not much more is happening through the life of a cable, I think. As long as you’re using quality cables, that is.
Perfect, thanks
Yes, I am using Campagnolo Record shifter & brake cables that came packages with the groupset. All parts are from the groupset except the housings where I had to buy longer lengths from Jagwire.
I will return the adjusters & a few other items that are no longer needed
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Not only is adjusting FD near impossible with ICR, $16+Tax for a single piece cable adjuster is criminal.
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Done.
I was unable to get the flex shaft tool working on the "TackLife" tool & then realized I actually had a Milwaukee M12 cordless dremel tool & found that & attached the diamond carbide tip & went at the hole & enlarged it a bit.....somewhat lopsided, but the speed of the carbide tip fused the ends so the hole looks a bit like funny oval but the 5mm cable went thru
Might look at it in the morning & use the sanding cone bit to smoothen the edge out. There was a bit of carbon dust that I vac'd up & for a moment though I had one stuck on my contact lens, which would have been really, really annoying
I also have a couple of the exit covers & I might just trim one & superglue it on there for a cleaner look & probably the same cover for the FD at the bottom
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Updated pix of the hole process :D
The plastic bits are from Amazon $8 for 20 pcs.
I still have no idea how well they will fit & I know that I will need to cut/grind one down to make it fit the top hole for the rear brake & make it look neat
JooFn Bike Brake Derailleur Shifter Internal Wiring Routing Kits Frame Plugs Bicycle Frame Embedded Single Hole Buckle
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09LQP1M2B?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
Green wire/cable is $17 & cheaper than ParkTool, but works really well & I decided to keep it.
BESNIN Internal Cable Routing kit Bicycle Internal Cable Routing Tool Cycling Bike Internal Cable Routing Tool for Bicycle Frame Put Out Inner Wire
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B5WVXRWL?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
There's a whole stack of extra stuff thats unopened & will go back because the Jagwire kits came with some of those pieces (end caps/tension limiters etc etc)
I will keep the ParkTool wire/hose cutters (not opened yet), which I thought was very expensive @ $44, but looking at what I need to cut, I will wind up wrecking my regular tools
so might as well use this & keep it
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I say slow and steady with hobby files wins the race.
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All basic parts and cable housings are in the frame
Still need to add fd/rd, levers and handlebar
The crank went in smoothly, but if I try and spin it by hand it does not go beyond 1 revolution on its own. I expected it to spin freely
I checked the bb and the bolt does not touch the campy spindle, nor the foam housing on top of the cable housing to prevent rattles
There is no lateral play either, so I’m a little lost on this issue
Anyone any ideas ?
Edit:
Fixed.
Non-drive side wavy ring was not set when the crank arm was added & was probably skewed by a tiny amount.
Removing both cranks & double checking everything & tap with a rubber mallet & everything sets correctly & the cranks spin freely
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so anyone else seen this one by Hambini ?
https://youtu.be/690Q5NSbQ0g (https://youtu.be/690Q5NSbQ0g)
so after hambini did his video GC updated his videohttps://youtu.be/wx5ZEBSZ66E (https://youtu.be/wx5ZEBSZ66E)
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Yep, it seems the main issues are
1. Disc brake frame have through axles alignment issues & need facing
2. Paint in the BB threads
3. Bolt in BB height is too high
My frame above is the rim brake version & in my order/email with Chris
1. I asked for matte black/unfinished frame & to make sure there was no paint
I did clean out the BB/BSA threads with isopropyl & there was barely any paint in there (yes they do listen in their emails)
2. Front direct mount brake gave me issues & I cleaned that out & I had to coat the threads with ASC-1 anti-seize when mounting the campy brakes
I have no idea what the heck they put in those holes, but that was a hard install
3. Started to file down the internal bolt & then Sebastian mentioned the Campy spindle is 25mm & will have enough clearence & sure enough that was the case & I did not bother sanding that down
My bike is in the local shop waiting to get the steerer cut & the shifting/indexing setup & then I'll ride & test it out
I did have to go to the Pinarello shop & get spacers so now I have the base spacers from Velo stacked up & then 3 spacers with impeccable finish from Pinarello & it looks a bit comical, but it all fits together...
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Yep, it seems the main issues are
1. Disc brake frame have through axles alignment issues & need facing
2. Paint in the BB threads
3. Bolt in BB height is too high
My frame above is the rim brake version & in my order/email with Chris
1. I asked for matte black/unfinished frame & to make sure there was no paint
I did clean out the BB/BSA threads with isopropyl & there was barely any paint in there (yes they do listen in their emails)
2. Front direct mount brake gave me issues & I cleaned that out & I had to coat the threads with ASC-1 anti-seize when mounting the campy brakes
I have no idea what the heck they put in those holes, but that was a hard install
3. Started to file down the internal bolt & then Sebastian mentioned the Campy spindle is 25mm & will have enough clearence & sure enough that was the case & I did not bother sanding that down
My bike is in the local shop waiting to get the steerer cut & the shifting/indexing setup & then I'll ride & test it out
I did have to go to the Pinarello shop & get spacers so now I have the base spacers from Velo stacked up & then 3 spacers with impeccable finish from Pinarello & it looks a bit comical, but it all fits together...
so on 1-10 recommendation for a rim brake of this frame?
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so on 1-10 recommendation for a rim brake of this frame?
9 out of 10
Keep my recommendation in mind with the following caveats on why I did this build
1. My existing bike is a Trek Madone SL-7 eTap with sram force & is a superb bike, but disc brake have their own unique issues
2. I wanted a Pinarello Dogma F, but obviously beyond budget so I went for this frame + a Campagnolo Record/Super Record groupset + Rim brakes (direct mount)
This is so I could take the bike on local trips etc & not have to worry about baby sitting the brakes & be able to fix or adjust anything I needed with minimal hassle
ie If wife & I go to Palm Springs etc, remove wheels, toss bike in suv & you are done. Reach destination & attach wheels + skewers & you are ready to go.
3. Cable routing
This was a major pain in the ass, because after spending $1700 on a very nice groupset, they gave me very short housings so I had to buy brake/shifter/foam cover housings (Jagwire)
from Amazon
I also stupidly routed the cable in the frame first & then the handlebar & it was 10x as difficult & was saved by the "bestin cable routing kit" for $15 (same a Park Tools $66 kit)
4. Weight on the bike is just close to 16lbs with the groupset, elite-drive wheels (50V), Bontrager Aeolus Elite saddle (145mm) & Dura-ace 9100E pedals
5. This is the very first time I have built a bike....any bike my life, so my total cost was around $4400, mainly because of the groupset ($1700), Wheels ($908), Frame ($700)
ad the rest is the insane number of tools I have wound up with, which I won't need to buy again
If you want a nice light roadbike I would say go for the rim version & probably go with sram electronic shift/mechanical rim brakes or a shimano 105 to keep costs low & get it unpainted to avoid all the hassle above
I also had a ton of help from a lot of folks on here & Sebastian who replied in depth to my emails & got me through this process
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so anyone else seen this one by Hambini ?
https://youtu.be/690Q5NSbQ0g (https://youtu.be/690Q5NSbQ0g)
so after hambini did his video GC updated his videohttps://youtu.be/wx5ZEBSZ66E (https://youtu.be/wx5ZEBSZ66E)
Well I’ve had no less than three of these frames in my workshop for reasons I mentioned earlier.
I agree with Hambini for the most part.
He’s not talking about thru axle alignment but rather about the brake mounts for the disc callipers. That’s a common issue on many frames.
I agree with him that the BB threads are shit. Not very cleanly cut at all. However, on all three frames I was able to thread in BB cups on the first attempt without cleaning anything.
And lastly the paintjob. Well, it’s a 50USD paintjob. It’s way better than what I could do for 50USD. But it’s far from spotless. However, all three frames I got were not as badly finished as his frame.
I think what this clearly shows is that there’s quite the variation in quality with Velobuild. And that doesn’t inspire confidence in their QC.
They do however in my experience admit when they’re at failure and try to correct it.
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I need some recommendations on brake pads, my bike is still in the local shop
The wheels are elite drive carbon 50V
Brakes are direct mount Campagnolo Record and they came with black pads but those may have been for alloy rims and will check when I get the bike back
As a backup I just ordered a set of Swiss Stop Black Prince brake pads, though if those are incorrect they will be sent back unopened
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I need some recommendations on brake pads, my bike is still in the local shop
The wheels are elite drive carbon 50V
Brakes are direct mount Campagnolo Record and they came with black pads but those may have been for alloy rims and will check when I get the bike back
As a backup I just ordered a set of Swiss Stop Black Prince brake pads, though if those are incorrect they will be sent back unopened
You can’t really go wrong with Black Prince pads. I’ve switched to Kool Stop pads because I prefer the slightly softer compound. They do wear quicker, though. I’ve heard good things about Campagnolo’s own red carbon pads. Never tried them myself. The black ones that come stock on the brakes are for aluminium rims only.
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You can’t really go wrong with Black Prince pads. I’ve switched to Kool Stop pads because I prefer the slightly softer compound. They do wear quicker, though. I’ve heard good things about Campagnolo’s own red carbon pads. Never tried them myself. The black ones that come stock on the brakes are for aluminium rims only.
At this point after starting the build I have
1. Bought the Pinarello top cap & compression plug for $60 (much better quality & longer length on the plug)
2. Additional spacers for $75 (yes, it sucks to pay that much for fine, refined plastic....from Taiwan)
(and they are the only ones that fit perfectly on the Velo 218 spacers)
3. New SwissStop brake pads for $53 (campy ones are for alloy & I have no idea what the heck elite-wheels sent, they were marked Shimano Drua-ace, so I gave those away)
4. Garmin mount for $34 (I paid $15 for this to Velo & it wasn't in the box)
5. $17 for 666 grub screws (I am not making this up), made of 12.9 class alloy steel
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FM9JJWK?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
I guess if the missing velo parts show up I can return the Garmin mount unopened & probably the spacers & maybe use the fake Pinarello top cap as a guitar pick
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At this point after starting the build I have
1. Bought the Pinarello top cap & compression plug for $60 (much better quality & longer length on the plug)
2. Additional spacers for $75 (yes, it sucks to pay that much for fine, refined plastic....from Taiwan)
(and they are the only ones that fit perfectly on the Velo 218 spacers)
3. New SwissStop brake pads for $53 (campy ones are for alloy & I have no idea what the heck elite-wheels sent, they were marked Shimano Drua-ace, so I gave those away)
4. Garmin mount for $34 (I paid $15 for this to Velo & it wasn't in the box)
5. $17 for 666 grub screws (I am not making this up), made of 12.9 class alloy steel
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08FM9JJWK?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
I guess if the missing velo parts show up I can return the Garmin mount unopened & probably the spacers & maybe use the fake Pinarello top cap as a guitar pick
you have pic and web page for plug.i went with an unbranded carbon piece for top cap.
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you have pic and web page for plug.i went with an unbranded carbon piece for top cap.
Here you go
https://www.bikebling.com/Most-Pinarello-Headset-Compression-Plug-p/most22-pi-hs-compplug.htm
This is what I wound up buying (highway robbery, but probably saved the US economy & the govt from shutdown during xmas)
https://www.bikebling.com/Pinarello-Aero-1k-Carbon-Top-Cap-Expander-p/pinarello22-stexa1kpam.htm
Seb above had a nice one from Deda that is 70mm in length, but I was unable to find that
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2. Paint in the BB threads
I thought its not paint but poor machining???? If its paint then I can deal with that
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2. Additional spacers for $75 (yes, it sucks to pay that much for fine, refined plastic....from Taiwan)
(and they are the only ones that fit perfectly on the Velo 218 spacers)
Got a link I am a tall person and need spacers
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Got a link I am a tall person and need spacers
Link is in post above.
If you are in SoCal then the place linked above is in Escondido & you can pick it up in store or order it & have it mailed to you
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Well, the local bike shop has now clobbered my front derailleur and stripped out the helicoil and held the bike for more than 12 days now
I don’t know what size coil I need now and if I have to buy yet another fd, because the shop will not pay for one.
I didn’t know campy used a helicoil in the fd for a braze on and at this point I just want to get my bike back
didn’t expect an actual bike shop mechanic to mess up an installation.
Anyone using a campy group can tell me what part I need and it’s probably metric
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Well, the local bike shop has now clobbered my front derailleur and stripped out the helicoil and held the bike for more than 12 days now
I don’t know what size coil I need now and if I have to buy yet another fd, because the shop will not pay for one.
I didn’t know campy used a helicoil in the fd for a braze on and at this point I just want to get my bike back
didn’t expect an actual bike shop mechanic to mess up an installation.
Anyone using a campy group can tell me what part I need and it’s probably metric
I wasn't familiar with the term Helicoil.
You mean the little thread insert that the clamping bolt for the FD cable screws into, right?
I attached a photo of a Record 12sp FD.
I got various generations of Campagnolo stuff in use. I never noticed it, but they all have it. It's a steel insert to make the thread interface more durable, I guess.
I tried to remove it from an old Chorus 11sp FD that I have lying around. But it seems to be pressed in.
Also, there seems to be no spare part no. for this bit (see the attached pic).
So I think it's safe to say that this insert is not intended to be removed/replaced. The guy has probably permanently ruined your brand new FD.
If you mean the threaded hole that is used to attach the FD to the frame's FD mount - there's no helicoil in there. Those threads are cut directly into the aluminium of the FD. If he stripped those, then the FD is trashed as well, I guess.
The limit screws are also threaded directly into the FD. They use little springs which help keeping them in position once they're set up correctly. Those are sold as a complete set - two screws plus the springs.
Hope this helps. Your build is turning into a proper odyssee. Hope you're going to finish the bike soon.
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This one (see pix)
Apparently, all campy FD's have them & somehow this guy with 40 years of experience as he repeatedly kept telling me managed to mess this up & then wanted to sell me a Chorus FD for $103
After a few YouTube's etc, it is possible to press in a new coil in there & I really hope I will get my bike back today, regardless of whether they have fixed it or not
I might wind up having to either fix this or buy a new one & I'm thinking of filing a legal dispute, because at the very least they should have simply apologized & offered to replace it instead of blaming it on "the chinese frame" etc etc
I called another shop that is a pro campy center & the tech there said, "you have to be really incompetent to manage to destroy that coil" and "please just bring the bike in so we can make it right"
.....and I haven't even ridden the bike yet.
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can you re-tap the threads, find a coil my be be a problem
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Lefty forks had(still have?) an helicoil where you thread the wheel.
To protect the alloy part, the helicoil will die first if you cross thread.
Once I stripped one, and it was a little nightmare to replace.
On Weight Weenies you can look for graeme_f_k he's generally responsive about Campagnolo questions.
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He’s not talking about thru axle alignment but rather about the brake mounts for the disc callipers. That’s a common issue on many frames.
Common on brand frames? I had this issue with a Velobuild 177, even the second fork Chris sent had the issue, my mechanic was good enough to resolve the issue making a new insert with helicoil.
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Update
Front derailleur was saved by a more competent mechanic and retapped
Now, it needs a M7 x 1.0 helicoil which is on order and will arrive next Tuesday
Extra spacers and top cap and garmin mount finally showed up
Black Swiss Stop brake pads went back as they were the wrong ones and yellow campy compatible
ones should show up tomorrow
Merry Christmas everyone
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Yep, it seems the main issues are
1. Disc brake frame have through axles alignment issues & need facing
2. Paint in the BB threads
3. Bolt in BB height is too high
My frame above is the rim brake version & in my order/email with Chris
1. I asked for matte black/unfinished frame & to make sure there was no paint
I did clean out the BB/BSA threads with isopropyl & there was barely any paint in there (yes they do listen in their emails)
2. Front direct mount brake gave me issues & I cleaned that out & I had to coat the threads with ASC-1 anti-seize when mounting the campy brakes
I have no idea what the heck they put in those holes, but that was a hard install
3. Started to file down the internal bolt & then Sebastian mentioned the Campy spindle is 25mm & will have enough clearence & sure enough that was the case & I did not bother sanding that down
My bike is in the local shop waiting to get the steerer cut & the shifting/indexing setup & then I'll ride & test it out
I did have to go to the Pinarello shop & get spacers so now I have the base spacers from Velo stacked up & then 3 spacers with impeccable finish from Pinarello & it looks a bit comical, but it all fits together...
I just got this same frame yesterday! I got the BB installed after cleaning out the threads. This took less than 1 hour.
I went to install the Ultegra 8010 direct mount rim brakes that I chose and they won't go in. Are the Campagnolo and Shimano bolt patterns the same? Or will the Shimano brakes not work with this frame?
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I just got this same frame yesterday! I got the BB installed after cleaning out the threads. This took less than 1 hour.
I went to install the Ultegra 8010 direct mount rim brakes that I chose and they won't go in. Are the Campagnolo and Shimano bolt patterns the same? Or will the Shimano brakes not work with this frame?
There’s no difference. Bolt pattern and threads are identical. Please provide a bit more info. What exactly is the problem. Do the bolts line up with the holes in the frame? Do the bolts not catch the threads? Have you tried to screw something else in to see if the threads actually work? Most brakes come with thread lock applied to the mounting bolts. That might make it harder to screw them in initially.
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There’s no difference. Bolt pattern and threads are identical. Please provide a bit more info. What exactly is the problem. Do the bolts line up with the holes in the frame? Do the bolts not catch the threads? Have you tried to screw something else in to see if the threads actually work? Most brakes come with thread lock applied to the mounting bolts. That might make it harder to screw them in initially.
Only bolts I had were the ones in the brakes. They wouldn't thread together at all. Barely start, tons of running torque. Felt like it was cross threading. I spent the past few hours troubleshooting and I found the solution.
So they are both M6-1 threads. I found this out with calipers, thread standard sheets online, and some pitch gauges. The Shimano Ultegra bolts had included a thread locker. The female threads in the frame ended up having a tiny amount of resin in them. These two things combined made it almost impossible for them to thread together. I carefully (by hand for 80% of the time) ran an M6-1 thread tap through the frame threads to clean them up. Once I had done this, they actually went together.
Tomorrow I drill out the hole for the rear brake cable and file down the interference with the crank spindle. Wish me luck!
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Only bolts I had were the ones in the brakes. They wouldn't thread together at all. Barely start, tons of running torque. Felt like it was cross threading. I spent the past few hours troubleshooting and I found the solution.
So they are both M6-1 threads. I found this out with calipers, thread standard sheets online, and some pitch gauges. The Shimano Ultegra bolts had included a thread locker. The female threads in the frame ended up having a tiny amount of resin in them. These two things combined made it almost impossible for them to thread together. I carefully (by hand for 80% of the time) ran an M6-1 thread tap through the frame threads to clean them up. Once I had done this, they actually went together.
Tomorrow I drill out the hole for the rear brake cable and file down the interference with the crank spindle. Wish me luck!
See my earlier post on the drilling with the carbide bit & finish with the sanding bit
My Chinese dremel was a pain to use & the company seems to be defunct so I used the bits on my Milwaukee rotary M12 cordless which was easier to use
For direct mount brakes I had a miserable time mounting the front one & removed the thread locker from the bolts (campy) & cleaned out the inside of the mount point with isopropyl alcohol & a soft rag & used a touch of asc-1 (anti sieze) on the bolt thread to get it started & carefully tightened it
Yes, I know, you should not use grease ppl-1 or asc-1 on this, but I was afraid of damaging the fork etc & I can always use a medium strength blue loctite later if it loosens out
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See my earlier post on the drilling with the carbide bit & finish with the sanding bit
My Chinese dremel was a pain to use & the company seems to be defunct so I used the bits on my Milwaukee rotary M12 cordless which was easier to use
For direct mount brakes I had a miserable time mounting the front one & removed the thread locker from the bolts (campy) & cleaned out the inside of the mount point with isopropyl alcohol & a soft rag & used a touch of asc-1 (anti sieze) on the bolt thread to get it started & carefully tightened it
Yes, I know, you should not use grease ppl-1 or asc-1 on this, but I was afraid of damaging the fork etc & I can always use a medium strength blue loctite later if it loosens out
I saw your notes about that specific hole, and sebastian's responses. I used a hand drill and stepped it up like you guys talked about. Then cleaned up the edge of the hole with a dremel.
Did you have any issues threading the bolts into the handlebars where they clamp onto the fork tube? Those are giving me issues too. Thinking I'll have to clean out those tapped holes too.
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I saw your notes about that specific hole, and sebastian's responses. I used a hand drill and stepped it up like you guys talked about. Then cleaned up the edge of the hole with a dremel.
Did you have any issues threading the bolts into the handlebars where they clamp onto the fork tube? Those are giving me issues too. Thinking I'll have to clean out those tapped holes too.
" threading the bolts into the handlebars " ????
Paste a pix, because I don't understand what you are referring to
My bike it still in the shop, tech is out due to illness so I wont get it back until later next week, which is fine as I'd not have someone sick being forced to work on new years eve on something that can wait.
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Did you have any issues threading the bolts into the handlebars where they clamp onto the fork tube? Those are giving me issues too. Thinking I'll have to clean out those tapped holes too.
You mean the threads in the one piece Handlebar for the grub screws, right? I had no issues with these. But there was one other forum member posting here who stripped the threads there after using Loctite. I think it’s safe to say that everything that is threaded on this frame should be met with a lot of caution. The material is not particularly durable and the threads are not particularly clean.
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You mean the threads in the one piece Handlebar for the grub screws, right? I had no issues with these. But there was one other forum member posting here who stripped the threads there after using Loctite. I think it’s safe to say that everything that is threaded on this frame should be met with a lot of caution. The material is not particularly durable and the threads are not particularly clean.
i had the same issues on my first set of bars that came with the frame( it was un painted) the grub screw were not drilled correctly. order another one off Ali. The grub screws holes are in better condition. I did use different grub screws then what came with bars. the OEM once are alum i went with a stainless steal.
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Bike done & the FD was retapped with M7 & used an M6 helicoil & everything is smooth.
This is a new tech @Leucadia Cyclery & he basically saved me from having to buy an all new FD that was butchered by SoCal bikes.
Now. I'm running into 2 minor issues
1. The steel grub screws were sticking out a bit on handbar & seatpost so those were replace by M6 x12mm g12 black alloy steel & now they are too short it seems
(I have a box of 666 M3/4/5/6/8/10/12) (if anyone needs any size let me know)
Ideally I would like a flush install, currently the inner threads are exposed & I don't like that, because if they get damaged, it will be impossible to get the screw out.
2. The wedge piece behind seatpost sticks out a bit & I dont know if its supposed to be flush or not (can anyone take a pix & confirm ? )
Will post pix of completed bike in a bit. Waiting on custom decals to be printed
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Some pix....pouring in SoCal at the moment...will take a better one later with lighting
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More pix & questions
M6 x 12mm bolt in stem goes in & does not sit flush & that made me nervous, so I reverted back to the original bolts that stick out a bit (torque 6 nm)
Is there any other side I can use or go back to smaller 12mm & use a rubber cap ? The original steel grubs are ~ 15mm length
M6 x 12 black g12 alloy steel on seat post fit & now I need to find a rubber grommet/cap so I need to know what size (a link would help)
Seatpost wedge sticks out a bit & I'm thinking of using clear silicon sealer to lay down a bead around the base & waterproof it or use silicon fuse tape
If this is supposed to sit flush let me know
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Did the first test ride & bike is much lighter than my Madone (19.6 lbs) at 17.4 with pedals/ bottles etc etc
It handles well & ran into a couple of issues
1. FD will not shift from small ring to big & only does that only in a while. I can see the cable move the FD when I try to shift
2. Saddle rear hex bolt fell off. It looks like a 5mm hex bolt with some sort of plate nut & my saddle came off & nearly killed me in the process
This is probably the first bike shop that did not torque the bolts or use loctite. Luckily I was able to regain my balance & not keel over in traffic
Can anyone tell me what bolt/nut is used to clamp the saddle in the rear so I go find a spare bolt ?
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All my bikes have varying lengths of M5 screws to tighten saddles. The ones on my VB frame are M5x35mm.
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All my bikes have varying lengths of M5 screws to tighten saddles. The ones on my VB frame are M5x35mm.
Yep the rear bolt is an M5, I don't know what that tiny rectangular nut is called or its dimensions since mine fell off
At the moment I have a replacement M5 bolt with a washer & barrel nut which looks funny but holds the seat in place
Edit :#1
Partial solution
Chris @Velobuild responded within a few hours & sent out another set of bolts
Brian @ Lecuadia Cyclery looked up the F12 & used a barrel nut thats used in the Pinarello to fit in the space & torqued it to 8 nm & also fixed my FD so the shifting is smooth now
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Glad it's all sorted out. I think with a little scavenging around in local hardware store you might be able to stock up on those nuts. I found something similar.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Hillman-3-8-x-5-8-x-1-4-20-Barrel-Nut-880543/202242356
This of course isn't metric style but they might have metric too.
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Ordered these ones as they are a better fit, right now I have a stopgap nut and bolt in there
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07NP4RCHJ?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1&psc=1
FD chain rub on small and large ring in front when the largest 2 rear cogs are used
Also it will not shift at all from small to large in front if I’m pedaling, so I think the adjustment is off
There is no inline barrel adjuster so setting this up correctly is proving to be hit or miss and I will have to learn how to do this myself
Oddly, the bike feels smaller compared to my Madone 56cm, though they are identical in size with +- 3.5 cm difference in reach
Takes a bit more effort to get going, but holds speed really well, probably due to ceramic bearings in the elite drive wheels
Madone is 12x2 48/35, 10-33
Velo is 12x2 52/36, 11-34
I seem to be using the big ring on front a lot more on this bike than on the Madone sl7
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Completed Bike pix
Bike with decals installed
Matt from MH Custom Printing in Oceanside/San Diego, who made the decals for me & put them on
Huge thanks to everyone on here who replied with helpful suggestion & Sebastian who has been in touch via email & helped me resolve my front derailleur issues
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Completed Bike pix
Bike with decals installed
Matt from MH Custom Printing in Oceanside/San Diego, who made the decals for me & put them on
Huge thanks to everyone on here who replied with helpful suggestion & Sebastian who has been in touch via email & helped me resolve my front derailleur issues
Nice One! Congrats on finishing your build. Looking great. I like the Blackbird reference.
Glad I could help you on your odyssee
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need ideas, the bottom bolt that mounts the water bottle is siezed in bolt hole. when i try to un screw i can feel it ripping up the carbon. basically the mounting poing feels like it want to spin free. the top mount is good. wondering if i should leave it as-is.
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Just did a 26 mile ride & ran into the following issues (give me your opinion here folks)
1. Clicking noise. This may be the rear indexing
2. Chain rub on largest sprocket in rear (11-34)
3. Creaking/swooshing noise if I stand & pedal up a hill & I think this may be the spindle rubbing against that inner bolt
This is the first time I've heard this since riding this bike
4. Creaking noises from the front of the bike.
This one is really odd as I can't tell what the heck is causing this or if the Elite Wheels carbon spokes are "twanging" due to wind, since I did not have this noise in the last 5 rides
The Campy Record can definitely take a beating & I was in the large ring in the front for most of my ride, which surprised me as I'm usually on the smaller ring on the SRAM Force on the Madone
I think this may have to do with the 52/36 front & 11-34 rear combination
Overall the bike rides well & is more comfortable in reach than the Madone, though the seat is really stiff (same Bontrager Aeolus saddles on all my bikes) & for that the Trek iso speed wins out for comfort.
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For #4 did you lube between the outer diameter of the bearings and the frame? I've had that weird creaking front end before on one of my Specialized bikes and I solved it with an extra help of grease.
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For #4 did you lube between the outer diameter of the bearings and the frame? I've had that weird creaking front end before on one of my Specialized bikes and I solved it with an extra help of grease.
Yes. I used ParkTool ASC-1 on the threads of the Campy Ultra Torque cups & set those to 35nm & then the crank itself was coated with PL-1 & tightened to 42nm (40-60nm)
Keep in mind the crank spins freely & all is fine when riding straight. The moment I put some muscle into the pedals I get this slight creak & if I am standing I get this dull rubbing sound
I swear this sounds like one of the old WW2 planes with mechanical controls & everything creaking & clicking in the wind & the red campy carbon pads make a hissing noise like a jet turbine spooling down as you brake to a halt....now that does sound cool
The only difference between the last 4-5 rides & this one today was I didn't have my headphones in & the decals are now on the bike & maybe Kelly Johnsons (Skunkworks/SR-71) spirit has somehow taken up residence on the bike ;D
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need ideas, the bottom bolt that mounts the water bottle is siezed in bolt hole. when i try to un screw i can feel it ripping up the carbon. basically the mounting poing feels like it want to spin free. the top mount is good. wondering if i should leave it as-is.
Well, if you don't HAVE TO undo it, I'd say leave it be.
Did you use Loctite?
If you MUST get it out, I'd probaly start by taking out the cranks and try to apply penetrating oil like WD40 from in- and outside and see if you can loosen it somehow.
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Just did a 26 mile ride & ran into the following issues (give me your opinion here folks)
1. Clicking noise. This may be the rear indexing
2. Chain rub on largest sprocket in rear (11-34)
3. Creaking/swooshing noise if I stand & pedal up a hill & I think this may be the spindle rubbing against that inner bolt
This is the first time I've heard this since riding this bike
4. Creaking noises from the front of the bike.
This one is really odd as I can't tell what the heck is causing this or if the Elite Wheels carbon spokes are "twanging" due to wind, since I did not have this noise in the last 5 rides
1. Sounds like an issue with the indexing
2. Where does the chain rub? On the FD? Then it's an FD setup issue. Set the inner limit screw. If the chain rubs in the big/big gear combination, then that's a reminder from your bike to shift to the small ring :)
3. Sounds weird and could be any number of things. Does it only happen when pedalling? Are your QR skewers properly tightened? Does your tire rub on the chainstay? Do your brake pads rub when yanking on the bike during pedalling while standing? I did have noise coming from brand new Ultra Torque cups on more than one occasion, because the brand new rubber seals make a noise when the crank spindle is rubbing against them. It would usually disappear after a few rides. But that usually sounded like a very high pitched squeaking.
4. Sounds like something coming from any of the interfaces on the front. Check the handlebar grub screws. Are they still torqued correctly? Do you have headset play? Also, I think what @jr223 actually meant, is if you greased the headset bearings when you pressed them into the frame's headtube. Those could creak as well.
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1. Sounds like an issue with the indexing
I redid the FD after the bike shop installed the chainstay (CSD) bracket upside down & I was able to get the front to shift in 2 clicks
Because of all the futzing around in the front the chain line may not be perfect which is probably throwing off the rear indexing
2. Where does the chain rub? On the FD? Then it's an FD setup issue. Set the inner limit screw. If the chain rubs in the big/big gear combination, then that's a reminder from your bike to shift to the small ring :)
Yes. Chain rubs against inner part of the FD, when in big/big & thats the only time it does that
3. Sounds weird and could be any number of things. Does it only happen when pedalling? Are your QR skewers properly tightened? Does your tire rub on the chainstay? Do your brake pads rub when yanking on the bike during pedalling while standing? I did have noise coming from brand new Ultra Torque cups on more than one occasion, because the brand new rubber seals make a noise when the crank spindle is rubbing against them. It would usually disappear after a few rides. But that usually sounded like a very high pitched squeaking.
Tires are not rubbing & I will check the skewers (thanks for adding that). I did switch the grubs from small black alloy steel to the original stainless steel in the front handlebar so that may have caused the issue
4. Sounds like something coming from any of the interfaces on the front. Check the handlebar grub screws. Are they still torqued correctly? Do you have headset play? Also, I think what @jr223 actually meant, is if you greased the headset bearings when you pressed them into the frame's headtube. Those could creak as well.
Zero headset play. Yes every single thing was lubed with PPL-1 or HPG-1 from ParkTool.
I will recheck all screws. Because the saddle fell off on my 1st ride & I had to buy a brand new titanium bolt, I am extremely apprehensive about getting on the bike in case the tech sabotaged it since it's a chinese frame
(Yes, I'm probably being paranoid here, but I had zero creaks before I dropped the bike off & I'm very sure the saddle was torqued correctly by me)
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1. Rear clicking issue resolved via index/tension adjuster
2. FD was a lot more challenging because it will now rub on top 2 & bottom 2 (on rears) when the front is large & small respectively
The FD does not have a tension adjuster due to all the cabling being internal & campy is very finicky to set up correctly
Also the techs did strip the low limit screw & at this point I have it set up & can use the single click on left side to micro adjust when shifting from front small to large (with 2 clicks)
The fronts will shift when level, but will not shift under load going uphill & thats ok, I can live with that as long as the other clicks are resolved.
So now for a test ride on sun after it stops raining & see if the BB still creaks & if there are any other odd rattles. My friend who helped me out is pretty experienced on bikes & said he did not hear any BB rubbing or rattles, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed
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2. FD was a lot more challenging because it will now rub on top 2 & bottom 2 (on rears) when the front is large & small respectively
The FD does not have a tension adjuster due to all the cabling being internal & campy is very finicky to set up correctly.
Your chain rub problem sounds like a non issue to me. I dunno about you but I’m not using these gears anyway. My experience with Campy is that you could try and set it up with no chain rub in all the gears but that might make Front shifting less smooth because the FD’s zero position is too far inboard. That means that a) you might drop the chain when downshifting unless you’re careful to not shift all the way through with your front shifter. And b) You might struggle to upshift in one go unless you remind yourself to trim the FD and shift one click in the outboard direction before actually doing the shift.
I do actually have my limit screws set up so I can slightly overshift on the upshifts and so I can eliminate chain rub in the easiest gear. I love that I can micro trim the FD all the time. It’s become second nature. But you got to get used to this when coming from other systems.
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Your chain rub problem sounds like a non issue to me. I dunno about you but I’m not using these gears anyway. My experience with Campy is that you could try and set it up with no chain rub in all the gears but that might make Front shifting less smooth because the FD’s zero position is too far inboard. That means that a) you might drop the chain when downshifting unless you’re careful to not shift all the way through with your front shifter. And b) You might struggle to upshift in one go unless you remind yourself to trim the FD and shift one click in the outboard direction before actually doing the shift.
I do actually have my limit screws set up so I can slightly overshift on the upshifts and so I can eliminate chain rub in the easiest gear. I love that I can micro trim the FD all the time. It’s become second nature. But you got to get used to this when coming from other systems.
Neighbour came down & helped with the clicking issue etc by checking the RD tension.
FD now clicks on front large & top 1 or 2 rears & we finally ran into the micro adjustment feature via 1 click on front & that seems to have solved that issue.
The chain did drop a few times on to the pedal when shifting in front & we finally fixed that & everything shifts, but won't go from small to large in front if there is the slightest incline
This used to work, so maybe we messed up the cable tension
It looks like the inner limit screw head is stripped & I will have to find a replacement for that & remove the existing screw or swap out inner & out screws on the FD.
I think the bike tech really mashed them
After everything was done he (neighbor) took off on the bike & since he is much shorter than me, he had to stand & lean forward & pedal up the hill & down the hill from my home & said
he could not detect any rubbing noise on the crank or any clicks or creaks, so maybe that is a good sign
What was funny was when he came zooming back into the garage with a huge grin & said "Man, I though this was weird, but I finally understand why people like campagnolo and I may switch my old dura-ace to a record group at some point...." ;D
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I love that I can micro trim the FD all the time. It’s become second nature. But you got to get used to this when coming from other systems.
Shimano has always had trim on FD on all their groups. May be SRAM has it too?
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Shimano has always had trim on FD on all their groups. May be SRAM has it too?
I know. I think you misunderstand what I mean. Campagnolo Ultra Shift on the front is basically almost like a friction shifter with many index points. From the inboard zero position to the outboard most position (aka big ring) you get probably five clicks or more.
What this means is that there’s many more positions you can let your FD “rest in” than on other groupsets. And once you’re used to that, you can basically fine trim your FD position to whatever gear you’re in at the back. You can of course also not care at all and sweep the paddle all the way through in both directions and use it like any other shifter. But I for one love that I never have chain rub.
And like I said, you can also set up your FD so it over shifts in both directions. That means on upshifts you get smoother shifts and once the chain is on the big ring you move the FD one click back. And on the small ring, you got some wiggle room when you’re in the biggest cog in the back so you never get chain rub. You do however have to remind yourself to not move the FD all the way inboard when shifting to the small ring, because that might then lead to dropping the chain.
Like I said: To me it’s second nature. You don’t need to use an Ultra Shift FD like that if you don’t want to. But it’s nice to have the option.
Sram and Shimano to my knowledge had one or max two micro trim positions inbetween shifts. But that’s nothing like Ultra Shift.
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I know. I think you misunderstand what I mean. Campagnolo Ultra Shift on the front is basically almost like a friction shifter with many index points. From the inboard zero position to the outboard most position (aka big ring) you get probably five clicks or more.
What this means is that there’s many more positions you can let your FD “rest in” than on other groupsets. And once you’re used to that, you can basically fine trim your FD position to whatever gear you’re in at the back. You can of course also not care at all and sweep the paddle all the way through in both directions and use it like any other shifter. But I for one love that I never have chain rub.
And like I said, you can also set up your FD so it over shifts in both directions. That means on upshifts you get smoother shifts and once the chain is on the big ring you move the FD one click back. And on the small ring, you got some wiggle room when you’re in the biggest cog in the back so you never get chain rub. You do however have to remind yourself to not move the FD all the way inboard when shifting to the small ring, because that might then lead to dropping the chain.
Like I said: To me it’s second nature. You don’t need to use an Ultra Shift FD like that if you don’t want to. But it’s nice to have the option.
Sram and Shimano to my knowledge had one or max two micro trim positions inbetween shifts. But that’s nothing like Ultra Shift.
Yes now it makes sense. The Shimano has two distinct but discrete trim shifts around both the "main" shifts. While it is possible to not have any chain rub in any chainring-rear cog combination it is a little bit of pain to set up perfectly. I was able to fine tune the Ultegra R8000 FD to perfection on my VB build but can never do the R7000 105 FD on my road bike for some reason. I had to take it to a shop to set it up to my satisfaction.
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@Sebastian
I think you are also running a 12x2 Campy ? If so , are you getting any chain rub in any combination ?
I was told that you always get some chain rub on large/large or small/small on 12 spd & it's impossible to not have that on a 12speed
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@Sebastian
I think you are also running a 12x2 Campy ? If so , are you getting any chain rub in any combination ?
I was told that you always get some chain rub on large/large or small/small on 12 spd & it's impossible to not have that on a 12speed
No. I’m still running 11sp and on my town bike even 9sp. All Campy. But I don’t see why you shouldnt be able to set up Campy 12sp without chain rub. Provided, that you trim your FD whilst riding, that is. Just like I described above. Just set your limit screws accordingly so you can overshift in both directions If your chain rubs, just move your FD one click in the respective direction to eliminate it.
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No. I’m still running 11sp and on my town bike even 9sp. All Campy. But I don’t see why you shouldnt be able to set up Campy 12sp without chain rub. Provided, that you trim your FD whilst riding, that is. Just like I described above. Just set your limit screws accordingly so you can overshift in both directions If your chain rubs, just move your FD one click in the respective direction to eliminate it.
1. This might sound like a dumb question, but when you move the inner or outer limit screws on the FD do you see it move ?
2. Also, when in lower gear on front is the FD cable tension tight or is there any slack in it ?
3. Can you shift from front small to large when going up an incline ? (this might be cable tension related)
I think the FD screw look like they have been stripped & damaged & I'm looking around for a replacement screw without buying a whole new FD
Without screws fine tuning or barrel adjuster I have to do the initial setup as best as I can & hope it will only rub on the large/large combo & then use the FD trim 1 click & that is good enough for me
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1. This might sound like a dumb question, but when you move the inner or outer limit screws on the FD do you see it move ?
2. Also, when in lower gear on front is the FD cable tension tight or is there any slack in it ?
3. Can you shift from front small to large when going up an incline ? (this might be cable tension related)
I think the FD screw look like they have been stripped & damaged & I'm looking around for a replacement screw without buying a whole new FD
Without screws fine tuning or barrel adjuster I have to do the initial setup as best as I can & hope it will only rub on the large/large combo & then use the FD trim 1 click & that is good enough for me
Here’s how I do it:
Step 1: Attaching the cable to the FD. Put the chain in the small ring on the front and on the largest cog in the back and set the derailleur with the inner limit screw so it just about doesn’t rub. When adjusting the inner limit screw, you will see the FD move.
This is the front FDs zero position.
Step 2: Pull the cable tight and attach and tighten it to the FD. If it’s a new cable and I haven’t shortened it yet, I might use some pliers to grab and pull it tight.
Step 3: Shift to the big ring on the front and to the smallest cog in the back. Adjust the outer limit screw so you can overshift with the FD, but not too far because you might drop the chain when upshifting otherwise. Now upon setting the outer limit screw you will not see any movement on the FD. The outer limit screw provides a stop for the FD to push against when you upshift. It won’t go further outboard than to where you set the outer limit. And as I said: I set it up so it slightly overshifts and once the chain is in the big ring I move the FD one click back.
As for your question about shifting on inclines: Yes, I can. But you have to give it some thought and release the power on the pedals a bit whe you do the shift. I understand you’ve been using an electronic groupset on your Madone. Probably the biggest advantage on electronic groupsets in my opinion is how great the front shifting works. The electronic motor will force the chain on the big ring no matter what. You don’t have to think about it. But if you time your shift badly the chain might get severely stuck in a way you wouldn’t be able to do it by sheer hand force.
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Here’s how I do it:
Step 1: Attaching the cable to the FD. Put the chain in the small ring on the front and on the largest cog in the back and set the derailleur with the inner limit screw so it just about doesn’t rub. When adjusting the inner limit screw, you will see the FD move.
This is the front FDs zero position.
Step 2: Pull the cable tight and attach and tighten it to the FD. If it’s a new cable and I haven’t shortened it yet, I might use some pliers to grab and pull it tight.
Step 3: Shift to the big ring on the front and to the smallest cog in the back. Adjust the outer limit screw so you can overshift with the FD, but not too far because you might drop the chain when upshifting otherwise. Now upon setting the outer limit screw you will not see any movement on the FD. The outer limit screw provides a stop for the FD to push against when you upshift. It won’t go further outboard than to where you set the outer limit. And as I said: I set it up so it slightly overshifts and once the chain is in the big ring I move the FD one click back.
As for your question about shifting on inclines: Yes, I can. But you have to give it some thought and release the power on the pedals a bit whe you do the shift. I understand you’ve been using an electronic groupset on your Madone. Probably the biggest advantage on electronic groupsets in my opinion is how great the front shifting works. The electronic motor will force the chain on the big ring no matter what. You don’t have to think about it. But if you time your shift badly the chain might get severely stuck in a way you wouldn’t be able to do it by sheer hand force.
Perfect response. I followed the steps above, except in my case when you move the inner limit screw you do not see the fd move at all until you actually go in 3 or 4 turns, which is why I think the screw may be broken.
The screw was really tightened down & the head is now almost stripped, which I why I was looking around to see what is being used, so I can replace that part
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I just realized that my step1 is a bit misleading. Obviously, step 1 is done without the cable attached. that happens in step 2.
No matter how stripped the screw head is, if you get it to turn then the FD should move. Unless you've exceeded the maximum inboard position. At that point, the screw will do nothing more but turn further out and FD is as far inboard as it goes.
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I just realized that my step1 is a bit misleading. Obviously, step 1 is done without the cable attached. that happens in step 2.
No matter how stripped the screw head is, if you get it to turn then the FD should move. Unless you've exceeded the maximum inboard position. At that point, the screw will do nothing more but turn further out and FD is as far inboard as it goes.
Well, should the FD move with just a quarter/half/full turn on the screw ?
At this point I think my bike is mocking me and taking perverse delight in my confusion/misery ....aka schadenfreude ;D
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Well, should the FD move with just a quarter/half/full turn on the screw ?
At this point I think my bike is mocking me and taking perverse delight in my confusion/misery ....aka schadenfreude ;D
Well, I feel like you should take a brief look at how the limit screws actually work. That’s gonna make it a lot easier for you to understand how to set this thing up. You can probably see it better on the RD. There’s tabs in the derailleur that the screws make contact with and then push against as you turn them further in. So the answer to your question is: Yes, the FD should move at a quarter of a turn of the LOWER limit screw, IF that screw is already turned in far enough to actually make contact with the aforementioned tab.
The OUTER limit screw will not make your FD move. It will just make it stop further outboard or inboard when you upshift.
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Well, I feel like you should take a brief look at how the limit screws actually work. That’s gonna make it a lot easier for you to understand how to set this thing up. You can probably see it better on the RD. There’s tabs in the derailleur that the screws make contact with and then push against as you turn them further in. So the answer to your question is: Yes, the FD should move at a quarter of a turn of the LOWER limit screw, IF that screw is already turned in far enough to actually make contact with the aforementioned tab.
The OUTER limit screw will not make your FD move. It will just make it stop further outboard or inboard when you upshift.
Yes, I was referring to the inner limit screw (thanks for adding in the outer limit description, which helps)
My inner screw is buried so deep that even back it out all the way & turning it does not move the FD until you really crank it several turns & that is why I think its damaged
I will double check everything per your posts, so I can get the shifting to where I would like it
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Finished a quick 14 mile sprint for lunch.
Shifting was pretty smooth & I understood when to use the trim function on the left hand levers
There was an incredible amount of creaking & rattling & I might have to pull the crank & re-grease everything & torque it back up & optionally check for bottom bolt rub & just dremel that
This is on a near lever surface & the creaking sounds like one of those gates or doors in a horror movie that are constantly opening/closing with squeaks/creaks...as best as I can describe that
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You mean the threads in the one piece Handlebar for the grub screws, right? I had no issues with these. But there was one other forum member posting here who stripped the threads there after using Loctite. I think it’s safe to say that everything that is threaded on this frame should be met with a lot of caution. The material is not particularly durable and the threads are not particularly clean.
Yes, I finally got a picture of them. They now thread in securely without any issue. Have to be SUPER CAREFUL with threads into composite. Definitely going to use lubricant instead of Loctite.
I did also start cable routing the handle bars. That was pretty tough.
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Yes, I was referring to the inner limit screw (thanks for adding in the outer limit description, which helps)
My inner screw is buried so deep that even back it out all the way & turning it does not move the FD until you really crank it several turns & that is why I think its damaged
I will double check everything per your posts, so I can get the shifting to where I would like it
It's hard to diagnose your FD without ever having seen it.
Maybe have a look here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St3whaq-pmA
It's an 11sp FD but the principle is identical.
If your FD doesn't move at all upon turning the inner limit screw, I'm afraid it might just be terminally damaged.
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Did you post a link ? It's not showing up
I contacted the Campagnolo US office & they were very nice & agreed to replace the inner & outer limit screws on the FD at no charge sometime in Feb & that will resolve that
1. Looks like I will have to pull the cranks & turn bike upside down & figure out what is causing all the creaking & rubbing noise
It might be the bolt, though the noise should have happened sooner or maybe the cable foam housing is hitting the spindle somewhere, when theres load on the pedals (aka uphill)
2. Front fork has a weird squeak, when riding on the hoods & going slightly uphill & sound like a bearing or race.
No lateral play in either case above, so probably a case of regrease & correct torque on cranks & compression plug on steerer
Overall, still very pleased with the way the build turned out & its a nice enjoyable ride.
I did take the time today to focus on the shifting and feel and when to use the trim and I must say the groupset is remarkably smooth and feels really nice
Edit #1
I did look at the same YouTube video you posted above & that helped me align & finalize the FD set up
Crank squeak is caused by the wavy ring on the non-drive side arm.
Per another YouTube, this is due to minor play on one side in the Ultra Torque cup design when the spindle is inserted with wavy ring & this is by design and the only solution is to remove arm on one side & grease, reattach & insert bolt & torque up 40-60nm
My issue is probably caused by setting torque to 42nm, as I did not have the strength to go any higher & will probably get someone to hold frame when I set it to 50nm & that should resolve the issue
Handlebar. I will probably remove this & re-grease the bearing & make sure the race is sitting correctly & everything is torqued correctly.
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Heyo guys,
long time no see.
I have been riding my vb-218 since last september pretty much exclusively.
I just got home from a ride yesterday and today I wanted to hop on and take it for a spin, but I observed the following: see the pic.
there is a small crack in the carbon near the lower seatpost screw. I have not changed my saddleheight in quite a while and tightened it with 3-4nm only. So im guessing the frame is gone then?
I rode in around 0 degrees c in winter and my bike made some weird noises in those very cold temps. But i thaught that was the saddle rails or something like that.
How did you repair yours sebastian? And would you mind giving me a crashcourse in your trades :D? Also you think this is a warranty claim worthy case?
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Heyo guys,
long time no see.
I have been riding my vb-218 since last september pretty much exclusively.
I just got home from a ride yesterday and today I wanted to hop on and take it for a spin, but I observed the following: see the pic.
there is a small crack in the carbon near the lower seatpost screw. I have not changed my saddleheight in quite a while and tightened it with 3-4nm only. So im guessing the frame is gone then?
I rode in around 0 degrees c in winter and my bike made some weird noises in those very cold temps. But i thaught that was the saddle rails or something like that.
How did you repair yours sebastian? And would you mind giving me a crashcourse in your trades :D? Also you think this is a warranty claim worthy case?
I was wondering if that is just a crack in the clear coat? if all warranty options etc fail you may as well sand that little area and see if the carbon is compromised. If it isn't just cover the sanded area in nail varnish to seal.
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Heyo guys,
long time no see.
I have been riding my vb-218 since last september pretty much exclusively.
I just got home from a ride yesterday and today I wanted to hop on and take it for a spin, but I observed the following: see the pic.
there is a small crack in the carbon near the lower seatpost screw. I have not changed my saddleheight in quite a while and tightened it with 3-4nm only. So im guessing the frame is gone then?
I rode in around 0 degrees c in winter and my bike made some weird noises in those very cold temps. But i thaught that was the saddle rails or something like that.
How did you repair yours sebastian? And would you mind giving me a crashcourse in your trades :D? Also you think this is a warranty claim worthy case?
Un-Tighten an Re-Tighten the seat clamp screws slowly and see if you can make out any movement in the crack.
It's a bit of a weird spot because it appears to be below where the seatpost wedge actually expands. Also, examine the inside for cracks.
If you're sure that it's actually a structural crack, definitely make a warranty claim with VB.
Mine was replaced under warranty. Chris asked me to sand away the paint to expose the crack. But that shouldn't be necessary with yours.
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Creaking is bad despite best attempts to lube the crank (non-ds) & skewers
AT this point I will have to start dismantling the bike & re-lube & re-torque everything as I think the bike shop really messed it up despite me printing out the specs for the Dogma F12 & leaving it with them & giving them original Pinarello compression plugs & screws etc etc
I did find these 2 links that were useful and may help someone else.
https://bicycleuniverse.com/why-is-my-bike-is-making-a-creaking-noise-when-pedaling/
https://bicycleuniverse.com/creak-bike-10-things-worth-checking/
Last option would be the Elite-Drive wheels, but since the creak only happens when I pedal & there is zero play in the crank, I'm thinking they messed up the drive side crank or UT cups & I had better remove & lube those & tighten them back & check handlebar/pedals & cassette lockring
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Creaking is bad despite best attempts to lube the crank (non-ds) & skewers
AT this point I will have to start dismantling the bike & re-lube & re-torque everything as I think the bike shop really messed it up despite me printing out the specs for the Dogma F12 & leaving it with them & giving them original Pinarello compression plugs & screws etc etc
I did find these 2 links that were useful and may help someone else.
https://bicycleuniverse.com/why-is-my-bike-is-making-a-creaking-noise-when-pedaling/
https://bicycleuniverse.com/creak-bike-10-things-worth-checking/
Last option would be the Elite-Drive wheels, but since the creak only happens when I pedal & there is zero play in the crank, I'm thinking they messed up the drive side crank or UT cups & I had better remove & lube those & tighten them back & check handlebar/pedals & cassette lockring
Try swapping you wheels with different ones for a test and see if that makes a difference.
There's not much you can mess up when assembling an UT crankset. Drive side just goes straight in. NDS goes in together with a wavy washer.
Maybe make a video so we can hear what it sounds like?
Also: Is the retaining clip inserted correctly on the drive side BB cup?
And you could also try and pop the seals out of the BB cups. I always take those out since they do nothing but add drag. But I doubt that they would cause a creak like that.
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Removed the non drive side crank & then tried to remove the UT cup
To my surprise the whole aluminum BB insert/shell started moving & now I'm fairly certain that was the cause of the creak
Is this frame even safe to use anymore ?
See image. The video is too large to post
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that looks like it is completely separated from the frame.
Warranty request and hopefully Velobuild helps you out.
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Thanks everyone for their help so far!
I am doing cable routing now and have a question about this plastic insert for the rear mech. How did you get internally routed cables around/through this?
The hole is too small to feed the cable housing through. Does the cable housing terminate internally there and then a smaller section goes from this plastic insert to the mech interface?
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Thanks everyone for their help so far!
I am doing cable routing now and have a question about this plastic insert for the rear mech. How did you get internally routed cables around/through this?
The hole is too small to feed the cable housing through. Does the cable housing terminate internally there and then a smaller section goes from this plastic insert to the mech interface?
Remove plastic insert at rear and run cable through
Use a small drill bit on insert after its remove and enlarge the hole a bit
Put insert back on cable and into hole
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that looks like it is completely separated from the frame.
Warranty request and hopefully Velobuild helps you out.
I emailed Velo and Chris said to epoxy/resin it and will follow up with an email next week
The problem is I can’t remove the cups now nor do I have the tools to remove the inserts to glue them back
I may also reach out to bb infinite an get their threaded inserts and use those as they are much higher quality
The campagnolo cups were threaded in with antiseize and torqued at 35nm per spec
The cranks were installed and the bolt greased and set to 50nm per spec
If the insert was correctly bonded to the carbon frame it should not have separated out
I put the crank back in for now and it runs smoothly but will creak when I pedal, so I won’t use the bike for now
So now its either a replacement frame or get someone to get the inserts out and use adhesive to bond it back after checking frame for cracks and let that cure for a days before reinstalling cups and cranks
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I emailed Velo and Chris said to epoxy/resin it and will follow up with an email next week...
What a service. Don't let them go with this.
Ask for a warranty replacement, nothing else.
It happened once to a kid's bike I've built from Peter.
He replaced it immediately, no question asked.
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Thanks everyone for their help so far!
I am doing cable routing now and have a question about this plastic insert for the rear mech. How did you get internally routed cables around/through this?
The hole is too small to feed the cable housing through. Does the cable housing terminate internally there and then a smaller section goes from this plastic insert to the mech interface?
You don't actually need that hard plastic insert in that place. You only need a small rubber gasket to plug the area around cable outer once it has exited from the hole. If you pull it out it will come off.
I'm kinda surprised that piece is attached to RD cable exit. On my frame it came in a pouch with other bits and pieces while a tiny rubber grommet was inserted into that hole. Since it's rubber, it expands and fits snuggly once cable housing has come out. I'll send you a picture in a bit. If you don't have it, it's fairly easy thing to get from hardware store.
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Thanks everyone for their help so far!
I am doing cable routing now and have a question about this plastic insert for the rear mech. How did you get internally routed cables around/through this?
The hole is too small to feed the cable housing through. Does the cable housing terminate internally there and then a smaller section goes from this plastic insert to the mech interface?
It fit on mine. I didn't have to do anything to that hole. I routed the housing all the way through the frame out of the rear hole. I slid the rubber cable guide over the housing and into the hole. It's a pretty flexy piece of rubber and it's only really there so the housing doesn't rattle around.
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What a service. Don't let them go with this.
Ask for a warranty replacement, nothing else.
It happened once to a kid's bike I've built from Peter.
He replaced it immediately, no question asked.
I second that. The BB shell probably wasn't properly bonded into the frame in the first place. It shouldn't have come loose. Asking you to fix it is unacceptable. They should replace the frame.
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At this point I can’t even get the UT cup off on the non drive side
I’m stumped, because it looks like the paint has cracked and the threaded insert has an aluminum face that’s stuck to the carbon frame or maybe the frame outer layer is broken
I will ask for a new frame when their holidays are over and Chris responds, but it looks like I won’t be able to use this bike or assemble a new one for several months
I see a similar hairline paint crack line on the drive side, in which case both inserts should come out, making it easier to inspect any damage to the frame.
Definitely wouldn’t want to try and rebond these back and it would be safer to add in a bb infinite 30 insert there, though that would now cost $230 and extra tools etc
I guess I will know next week if they will do a warranty or not and I’m hoping they will do the right thing
They have sent over missing parts when requested, though it takes time to show up
Edit:
Just received an email from BB Infinite, who probably did not understand the issue and asked me to use loctitie and hand tighten the cup and did not have a product that could help me
This is despite their own website saying they have a product that fixes this very same issue (assuming frame is intact)
Starting the warranty claim on this frame...wish me luck here
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Hello everyone,
first post here! Just been lurking for the past few weeks, so thanks everyone for all the pictures and experience that helped me decide. I've pulled the trigger on a XL Disc version of the 218 today. Hopefully it'll turn up fine without the unlucky experiences some of you had.
Planning an SRAM Force Etap build, but I'll hold off from ordering other components until I see the frame.
Did anyone run into trouble with taxing it when importing to EU (Germany)?
KR
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At this point I can’t even get the UT cup off on the non drive side
I’m stumped, because it looks like the paint has cracked and the threaded insert has an aluminum face that’s stuck to the carbon frame or maybe the frame outer layer is broken
I will ask for a new frame when their holidays are over and Chris responds, but it looks like I won’t be able to use this bike or assemble a new one for several months
I see a similar hairline paint crack line on the drive side, in which case both inserts should come out, making it easier to inspect any damage to the frame.
Definitely wouldn’t want to try and rebond these back and it would be safer to add in a bb infinite 30 insert there, though that would now cost $230 and extra tools etc
I guess I will know next week if they will do a warranty or not and I’m hoping they will do the right thing
They have sent over missing parts when requested, though it takes time to show up
Edit:
Just received an email from BB Infinite, who probably did not understand the issue and asked me to use loctitie and hand tighten the cup and did not have a product that could help me
This is despite their own website saying they have a product that fixes this very same issue (assuming frame is intact)
Starting the warranty claim on this frame...wish me luck here
not to be a debbie downer but from that previous photo, you uploaded the whole area around the bb cup is completely cracked I wouldn't try to ride that frame.
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not to be a debbie downer but from that previous photo, you uploaded the whole area around the bb cup is completely cracked I wouldn't try to ride that frame.
Nope, I appreciate all opinions & would much rather you were direct with me & gave me good advice & I really do appreciate that
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Edit:
Just received an email from BB Infinite, who probably did not understand the issue and asked me to use loctitie and hand tighten the cup and did not have a product that could help me
This is despite their own website saying they have a product that fixes this very same issue (assuming frame is intact)
May be I am not reading this right. Your frame is not intact so they are right when they say they don't have product that could help you - which seems like correct response?
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May be I am not reading this right. Your frame is not intact so they are right when they say they don't have product that could help you - which seems like correct response?
No, they thought that the UT cup wasn't correct and told me to use Loctite.
Later on Wes, the founder of the company called and we spoke for about 30 min & he gave me some good advice on where to take the frame and get the insert removed
Also, Chris just responded & they are sending a new frame
I managed to remove the drive crank & UT cup & took pix (see attached) also used a light sanding block on the portion around the non-drive side UT cup & if you can see the area where it looks like a circular crack,
that is actually the matte paint &below that is a shiny aluminum ring & definite not carbon
So the insert itself has a large outer flange & this is exactly the same design as the Pinarello Dogma F12, except on the Dogma the circular outer flange may be a bit smaller & is usually red in color
This means that everyone on here using the same 218 frame will have the same flange that is painted over & looks like part of the frame & this can be carefully removed with a BB30 press tool etc
There is no sign of any crack or tear or any carbon material inside the BB as well. I think after taking it to a specialist shop they will be able to remove the insert & use Vibratite and reattach it after letting it cure for 24 hours
after checking the frame for any damage & I may wind up using it indoors on a trainer
The BB shell itself is quite thick & this is good news for other users as well if they have any BB issues
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Once again it’s good to see that VB at least stand behind their warranty.
But I must say, all the issues in this thread do not fill me with confidence. Not sure I would buy from VB again, to be honest.
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Once again it’s good to see that VB at least stand behind their warranty.
But I must say, all the issues in this thread do not fill me with confidence. Not sure I would buy from VB again, to be honest.
The price is pretty good if you are building a bike for the first time on your own.
The bike itself rides quite well & is very light
These are the areas on which Velobuild should focus (IMO) & I sent this to Chris as feedback
1. Adhesive bonds on the BB inserts. If using Vibratite then let it cure for 3+ hours
2. No paint on threads (BB & brake mounts)
3. Make sure mounts are faced correctly & the threads are chased
4. Correct sized bolts to be included with each order
5. No missing parts
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The price is pretty good if you are building a bike for the first time on your own.
The bike itself rides quite well & is very light
These are the areas on which Velobuild should focus (IMO) & I sent this to Chris as feedback
1. Adhesive bonds on the BB inserts. If using Vibratite then let it cure for 3+ hours
2. No paint on threads (BB & brake mounts)
3. Make sure mounts are faced correctly & the threads are chased
4. Correct sized bolts to be included with each order
5. No missing parts
I second this. I was quite close to buying one of these and then backed off when I saw all the problems.
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Took bike in to a carbon specialist shop & despite our best attempts we were unable to get the non-drive side threaded insert put from the bottom bracket so it it could be glued back inside
Frame is fine, except now the insert can be moved by hand.
Per Chris from Velobuild
"The bb installed during mould ,not glue after made .get the glue out ,it should be moved"
So, basically I cannot get the insert out without wrecking the frame
Since there is an outer flange made of alumnium, I will simply add in a small metal insert to make a tiny gap & pour in some Park Tool RC-1, which should flow in & fill gaps & bind everything & stop the moving
though there may be some minor creaking
This lets me get back on the bike & use it, while the other replacement frame get's shipped out next week
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Removed the non drive side crank & then tried to remove the UT cup
To my surprise the whole aluminum BB insert/shell started moving & now I'm fairly certain that was the cause of the creak
Is this frame even safe to use anymore ?
See image. The video is too large to post
[/quote
ouch time for another frame or a good repair service. but it looks done to me.
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Did anyone see GC Performance video on the new 2023 budget f series frames? was wondering if that has something todo with his first review of the 218. An how close are they going to be to the 218 as for the carbon lay up.
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Took bike in to a carbon specialist shop & despite our best attempts we were unable to get the non-drive side threaded insert put from the bottom bracket so it it could be glued back inside
Frame is fine, except now the insert can be moved by hand.
I don’t quite get it. If the BB insert is a one piece unit, you won’t be able to get it out without destroying it, right? If it’s two separate shells on each side, you should be able to pull them out even with one of the Campy BB cups installed. Shouldn’t matter.
And either way, your best chance would probably to glue it at the flanges. Once it doesn’t move anymore you could still thread out the Campy BB cup if you need to.
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... I will simply add in a small metal insert to make a tiny gap & pour in some Park Tool RC-1, which should flow in & fill gaps & bind everything & stop the moving
though there may be some minor creaking...
When this happened to the kid's bike, we had a good success using the Pattex 1875425 repair paste. While waiting for the new frame.
You put this pasta with your fingers everywhere you can inside during 5' or less
Then place the axle to keep it aligned when it is curing in about 24h
I gave the frame later to another kid, who used it, and never heard back.
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When this happened to the kid's bike, we had a good success using the Pattex 1875425 repair paste. While waiting for the new frame.
You put this pasta with your fingers everywhere you can inside during 5' or less
Then place the axle to keep it aligned when it is curing in about 24h
I gave the frame later to another kid, who used it, and never heard back.
Thanks, will check it out and see if taht works better
See pix, which explain what I'm talking about above
I'm looking at the RC-1 so it can flow behind the front plate (if its metal)
I also sent the above pix to Chris & asked him to send me a pix of the raw frame without the insert & the insert byotself so I can understand what the part looks like
At the moment, the insert will move if you use a wrench & move the outboard UT cup & that much force is easily generated when pedaling.
Due to the depth of the shell, I'm still thinking of a good way to get the glue around the insert so its a permanent fix
The frame itself is remarkably well built in terms of thickness & I am surprised there was no damage with all the creaking, when I rode it over 100+ miles over a month (10 - 20 mile rides)
& put it through its paces
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Bike is back at home.
The shop tried everything to get that insert out and they were unable to do so
They also tried to put in a metal blade between the flange and frame but the fit is extremely tight
The carbon repair guy said the fame was very well made overall, apart from the bb issue, which was probably caused by the other bike shop over torquing the cup past 35nm
Chris at velobuild emailed again and confirmed the outer disc portion is the aluminum flange and the whole thing is molded in place, make it impossible to remove
So now the new plan is to use a 1/16” drill bit and make 2 tiny holes in the bottom carbon until the insert and use a syringe with a hollow needle to pour in some park tool rc-1 compound while another person uses the campy cup tool and wrench to turn the cup and insert so the fluid flows in and expands and binds everything together and that should stop the creaking once and for all
Yes, Velo is sending a replacement frame, so this is more of an experiment to see if this works without chopping up the frame
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apart from the bb issue, which was probably caused by the other bike shop over torquing the cup past 35nm
Is it the same shop that 1) Stripped FD mount screws on your frame 2) did not tighten saddle 3) could not tune FD 4) screwed up FD limit bolts?
I think the writing was on the wall. It’s great VB is sending a frame for a damage that very possibly stemmed from improper torquing.
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the bb issue, which was probably caused by the other bike shop over torquing the cup past 35nm
You'd have to be pretty determined and stupid at the same time to yank hard enough on a BB shell for it to come undone. I think it's unlikely that this was the reason. But judging from what you told us about your LBS so far, who knows?
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So now the new plan is to use a 1/16” drill bit and make 2 tiny holes in the bottom carbon until the insert and use a syringe with a hollow needle to pour in some park tool rc-1 compound while another person uses the campy cup tool and wrench to turn the cup and insert so the fluid flows in and expands and binds everything together and that should stop the creaking once and for all
I think If I had to do it, I'd probably try and drill into the flange from the DS and NDS and inject the adhesive from there to get it between the flange and the frame. Maybe 4 holes each side or one and then turn it a quarter turn for each injection. It would also give you a lot of contact area between the BB insert and the frame for the adhesive to do its work. I wouldn't drill into the frame from below. Also, I'd be worried to drill too far there and damage the aluminium threading or weaken it.
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@ Sebastian
1. No idea what shop did this. Might be the 2nd one as after I got the bike, the seat bolt fell off & there were clicks during shifting
I fixed the bolt issue by buying replacement bolts on Amazon & the clicking was fixed via indexing & fixing the csd that was installed upside down
You and others helped out quite a bit here when you mentioned the micro-trim function & after that I had no issues
Seat was set at 4nm(front)/ 8nm(rear) per F12 spec & the UT cups were set at 35nm per spec & I am 100% sure there was no creaking
2. The new bike shop is a carbon repair specialist place Element6.us
They did their best to get that insert out without damaging the frame & gave up & did not charge me anything & make a few suggestions
3. Yes, I can drill from the outside side, but that is aluminum & it is so close to the carbon frame, it will be impossible to not punch through
Per element6, the bottom shell is rock solid with enough thickness that 1 or 2 holes max to inject in RC-1
What they don't know/unsure of if the liquid has enough viscosity to flow into any space between inner shell & insert as it does take a wrench to move the UT cup & the whole insert
ie, You cannot move just with your hand without a a good amount of force
4. Yes, there wll be a replacement frame sent at sometime, I don't know when, so I will have to follow up with Chris to get a tracking #
I've done 116 miles in the 1 month that I was able to ride "Blackbird" & given the amount of abuse on that frame from 2 shops & the incredible amount of torque put on it by standing up & going uphill
& changing front & rear gears at the same time (to test the Campy system), I think the frame is solidly built & apart from a few niggles, I do think Velo has a good product on their hands.
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I’ve ridden mine for around 1500km / 930 miles now and no issues. I think it’s solid. Also, the repaired seat post clamping area holds up totally fine. That’s why out of pure laziness I haven’t bothered to build up the replacement frame. It’s hanging on my wall.
I’ve been using this bike on the trainer as well for several weeks now including sprints and FTP tests and the likes. It holds up fine. If anything it’s actually quieter than my Ridley before.
I got a superlight monobloc cassette from SROAD on order plus a set of Bontrager Speed Stop pro brakes. That will shed almost another 200g from this build.
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The carbon repair guy said the fame was very well made overall, apart from the bb issue, which was probably caused by the other bike shop over torquing the cup past 35nm
This sounds very plausible to me. A new youtube video from Jourdain Coleman just popped into my feed today, with a very similar topic starting at 02:15:
https://youtu.be/RilWvIzKq1I
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Main takeaways here:
-Probably stay away from BSA on cheaper frames.
-If insisting on ordering a frame with BSA, order unpainted.
VeloBuild generally does carbon and BB86 well. It's their use of aluminium that gets tricky, even occasionally with fork caliper mounts.
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Main takeaways here:
-Probably stay away from BSA on cheaper frames.
-If insisting on ordering a frame with BSA, order unpainted.
VeloBuild generally does carbon and BB86 well. It's their use of aluminium that gets tricky, even occasionally with fork caliper mounts.
I don’t think paint is an issue because
a) the residue that some people seemed to have on the BSA threads looked more like resin than paint. I had three of these on my bench and I had no troubles threading in cups on each of them. The threads are not cut very well, though. And
b) The unpainted frame is not actually completely unpainted. The BB area is in fact painted in matte black which is why you can’t see the carbon weave there. They probably did this to hide the areas where they joined the tubes.
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Still waiting on replacement frame or an acknowledgment that one will actually be sent out
I was told a couple of weeks ago it would be sent, then a week later they asked me if it was the same address
Yesterday or day before, I asked for a tracking # & then then they asked again if it was the same shipping address (I have lived in the same home for 10+ years)
I guess I will see a frame at some point in time in the next couple of months & in the meantime going back to my Trek Madone & the vbr-218 will lie dismantled in the garage as all attempts to fix it have failed
It's a shame they didn't use more glue as I really do like the frame
Chris, also mailed out some extra screws & I think that got delayed in the mail, but finally showed up. So they do keep their word, though their tracking system & QC need a bit of work
I don't think anyone here should hesitate to try these frames, as it's a really good experience to learn how to build your own bike & it really is a very nice bike to ride on.
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OK, I am trying to mock up my bike with my color pallet... what looks the best... Frist is the mock up which is not exact colors and second is the exact color pallet which I will use.
WHat does everyone think?
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Nice colors and the pattern. I like the first one better.
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Still waiting on replacement frame or an acknowledgment that one will actually be sent out
I was told a couple of weeks ago it would be sent, then a week later they asked me if it was the same address
Yesterday or day before, I asked for a tracking # & then then they asked again if it was the same shipping address (I have lived in the same home for 10+ years)
I don’t know if VB produce all their frames on order (or have them produced) but every time I was going to get a frame, Chris told me they’d need about ten days to produce and paint it before it’s going to be shipped. That was usually accurate.
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Nice colors and the pattern. I like the first one better.
I actually might go with something like this...
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lastly mine and many womens favorite color... tiffany blue..
If you thinking its like that other one. they are a like but not the same.
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I don’t know if VB produce all their frames on order (or have them produced) but every time I was going to get a frame, Chris told me they’d need about ten days to produce and paint it before it’s going to be shipped. That was usually accurate.
If you look Velobuild Instagram there are some post with Factory photos.
At least they have access to the production lines.
Just in case, they are one of the cheapest but try to offer a decent communication via "Chris" and somehow of guarantee.
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lastly mine and many womens favorite color... tiffany blue..
If you thinking its like that other one. they are a like but not the same.
Take one of the earlier pix a few pages ago (either Sebastian's bike or mine) & replace the color in photoshop/pixelmator etc & see how it looks
I did this exercise with the logo on my bike
I've attached the cable routing guide from "Chris", in case you haven't finished assembling it yet & it may help out
Have fun with the color schemes
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OK, I am trying to mock up my bike with my color pallet... what looks the best... Frist is the mock up which is not exact colors and second is the exact color pallet which I will use.
WHat does everyone think?
Both of those are nice, especially the first one!. I am a big fan of bright colors on the inside of the fork and chainstays. I think that pops out a bit better than having the brighter colors on the outside of the frame.
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Just an update on tire clearance on the rim brake frame.
I built a custom set of 60mm deep clinchers for this bike. The rims are around 30mm wide - slightly less at the brake track. Internal width is 22.5mm. A 25c Vittoria Corsa measures almost 28.5mm on these rims. As you can see, there’s still plenty of clearance on fork and brake.
No pics from the rear as I had the bike in the trainer. But there’s still plenty of clearance at the chainstays as well. I reckon you could just about get 32s in there if you wanted. Actual measured width, that is.
For me 28mm is all the width I ever need on a road bike.
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Just an update on tire clearance on the rim brake frame.
I built a custom set of 60mm deep clinchers for this bike. The rims are around 30mm wide - slightly less at the brake track. Internal width is 22.5mm. A 25c Vittoria Corsa measures almost 28.5mm on these rims. As you can see, there’s still plenty of clearance on fork and brake.
No pics from the rear as I had the bike in the trainer. But there’s still plenty of clearance at the chainstays as well. I reckon you could just about get 32s in there if you wanted. Actual measured width, that is.
For me 28mm is all the width I ever need on a road bike.
@ what psi is your tire pump to just for reference.
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@ what psi is your tire pump to just for reference.
Around 70psi on the front and 72 at the back. Sometimes slightly less if I ride rough stuff like cobbles much.
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Around 70psi on the front and 72 at the back. Sometimes slightly less if I ride rough stuff like cobbles much.
Are you running tubeless ?
I'm using Vittoria Corsa tires with tubes & Rhinodillo liners
Vittoria Rubino Pro IV Graphene 2.0 Tire Set with Inner Tubes - Includes 2 Performance Road Bike Tires (700x25c)
I am at 100psi front & rear, mainly because I am heavy @ 167lbs & any lower psi results in pinch flats.
Other bikes in the house at the same psi are running Conti GP 5000
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No. Regular clinchers with latex inner tubes. I‘ve been running tubeless on all my bikes for years but decided that for me it’s not worth the hassle on my road bikes. I just never really got many flats in the first place. But I did get leaky tires and other troubles with tubeless. Now I only ride tubeless on my gravel bike and on my commuter, which is an old steel cx bike with custom wheels that I built.
I’m heavier than you at around 80kg/180lbs. No pinch flats at these pressures. Even on stuff like cobbles.
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Around 70psi on the front and 72 at the back. Sometimes slightly less if I ride rough stuff like cobbles much.
Sorry. Need to correct myself here. It’s 80-82 at the rear and 72-75 in the front. Forgive me. I’m not using psi much. For me it’s all about pressure in bars.
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Sorry. Need to correct myself here. It’s 80-82 at the rear and 72-75 in the front. Forgive me. I’m not using psi much. For me it’s all about pressure in bars.
80 bar =1160.3 psi
If the earlier poster followed the recommendation in psi & managed to get past 1000psi, then please post the brand of the tire & tubes used as it would solve all our pinch flat issues
I did have a funny image in my head of someone pumping their tire and it slowly getting larger & filling up their garage ;D
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Hi Guys,
I would like to buy this frame.
I can't understand where is the Di2 battery?
Can you help me?
thanks
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80 bar =1160.3 psi
If the earlier poster followed the recommendation in psi & managed to get past 1000psi, then please post the brand of the tire & tubes used as it would solve all our pinch flat issues
I did have a funny image in my head of someone pumping their tire and it slowly getting larger & filling up their garage ;D
You’re probably just mocking me now. But those figures are in psi. In bars that would be 5 up front and around 5.5 at the rear.
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Hi Guys,
I would like to buy this frame.
I can't understand where is the Di2 battery?
Can you help me?
thanks
There’s a screw on cover beneath the BB. The frame comes with a Di2 battery holder that can be attached to that BB cover.
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Sorry it is the last question:
Is the Shimano Di2 Junction box fixed on the bar or in the frame (like Pinarello)?
Thanks
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You’re probably just mocking me now. But those figures are in psi. In bars that would be 5 up front and around 5.5 at the rear.
Nah, just light hearted fun amongst friends. :)
Just got the tracking# for the replacement frame.
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Sorry it is the last question:
Is the Shimano Di2 Junction box fixed on the bar or in the frame (like Pinarello)?
Thanks
I think your question depends on what version of Di2 you will be using.
(I'm basing my assumption on reviews, I have read online & YouTube's etc. I don't own a Di2 as yet)
The older Di2 7xxx series had the box under the handlebar
The newer 2022 revisions have the charging port in the back of the bike (rear derailleur)
Right now the newer R7100 105 seems to be the best value for money with dual 2032 cells in the shifters and a much better battery life
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Thank for your help and sorry for my bad explanation.
My question was where's installed the cable connection on this frame.
Please see the attached file.
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The frame does not have a port in the downtube. Just like the current Dogma F. So you would have to get a handlebar junction box. I don’t know however if this handlebar is compatible with Shimanos bar end junction box. Maybe someone else has built this thing with Di2?
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Thank for your help and sorry for my bad explanation.
My question was where's installed the cable connection on this frame.
Please see the attached file.
This frame does not have the access port on the downtube as in the Dogma
If you post the groupset version you are using with a link to the tech specs, someone may be able to better help you.
Shimano has moved the "brains" of the system from the box to the rear derailleur (per my understanding), so posting more info about which one you are using or planning to buy will clear up any confusion
Very nice Dogma in the pix....is that yours ?
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The frame does not have a port in the downtube. Just like the current Dogma F. So you would have to get a handlebar junction box. I don’t know however if this handlebar is compatible with Shimanos bar end junction box. Maybe someone else has built this thing with Di2?
I've built a frame with wired Di2 and the bar end Junctionbox, no problems besides the internal/eternal routing headache :)
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The frame does not have a port in the downtube. Just like the current Dogma F. So you would have to get a handlebar junction box. I don’t know however if this handlebar is compatible with Shimanos bar end junction box. Maybe someone else has built this thing with Di2?
ù
Thanks,
I will use the the bar end junction box version.
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This frame does not have the access port on the downtube as in the Dogma
If you post the groupset version you are using with a link to the tech specs, someone may be able to better help you.
Shimano has moved the "brains" of the system from the box to the rear derailleur (per my understanding), so posting more info about which one you are using or planning to buy will clear up any confusion
Very nice Dogma in the pix....is that yours ?
Thanks,
I will use the R8070 ultegra with the box in the hand bar.
No, unfortunately it's not my Dogma.
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Thanks,
I will use the R8070 ultegra with the box in the hand bar.
No, unfortunately it's not my Dogma.
ok so a quick search found this on ebay & your component set is 11spd & looks like this (pix attached)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225133006933?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&srsltid=Ad5pg_GttCHIyqlD4_l_bnmx9i8o5t_RFezjRN1xy4QHIcR79A9v3mbezZU
Here's what I suggest, based on my miserable experience routing brake & shift cables backwards through the bar
1. Start with the handlebar first (DO NO do this backwards)
2. The Di2 box will fit in the handlebar. The VBR-218 & handlebar are an exact copy of the Dogma F-12
I am actually using the original Pinarello top cap & compression plug & spacers on my bike
3. Add in the shifters & wiring first & then add in the brake cables.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fYjwZxu-d0 (Dogma F-12 assembly)
4. Take a look at the actual F12 assemble manual here
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1949164/Pinarello-Dogma-F12-Series.html?page=5#manual
Print out the following pages from the manual
Page #5 - Torque Specs (DO NOT deviate from these specs. You will damage your frame)
Page #41 - cable routing for Di2
When in doubt check base in here & pay attention to any advice (esp Sebastian). It will save you hours of frustration
Post pix of new bike when completed :)
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ok so a quick search found this on ebay & your component set is 11spd & looks like this (pix attached)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225133006933?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&srsltid=Ad5pg_GttCHIyqlD4_l_bnmx9i8o5t_RFezjRN1xy4QHIcR79A9v3mbezZU
Here's what I suggest, based on my miserable experience routing brake & shift cables backwards through the bar
1. Start with the handlebar first (DO NO do this backwards)
2. The Di2 box will fit in the handlebar. The VBR-218 & handlebar are an exact copy of the Dogma F-12
I am actually using the original Pinarello top cap & compression plug & spacers on my bike
3. Add in the shifters & wiring first & then add in the brake cables.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fYjwZxu-d0 (Dogma F-12 assembly)
4. Take a look at the actual F12 assemble manual here
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1949164/Pinarello-Dogma-F12-Series.html?page=5#manual
Print out the following pages from the manual
Page #5 - Torque Specs (DO NOT deviate from these specs. You will damage your frame)
Page #41 - cable routing for Di2
When in doubt check base in here & pay attention to any advice (esp Sebastian). It will save you hours of frustration
Post pix of new bike when completed :)
Thank you very much!
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ok so a quick search found this on ebay & your component set is 11spd & looks like this (pix attached)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225133006933?chn=ps&mkevt=1&mkcid=28&srsltid=Ad5pg_GttCHIyqlD4_l_bnmx9i8o5t_RFezjRN1xy4QHIcR79A9v3mbezZU
Here's what I suggest, based on my miserable experience routing brake & shift cables backwards through the bar
1. Start with the handlebar first (DO NO do this backwards)
2. The Di2 box will fit in the handlebar. The VBR-218 & handlebar are an exact copy of the Dogma F-12
I am actually using the original Pinarello top cap & compression plug & spacers on my bike
3. Add in the shifters & wiring first & then add in the brake cables.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6fYjwZxu-d0 (Dogma F-12 assembly)
4. Take a look at the actual F12 assemble manual here
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1949164/Pinarello-Dogma-F12-Series.html?page=5#manual
Print out the following pages from the manual
Page #5 - Torque Specs (DO NOT deviate from these specs. You will damage your frame)
Page #41 - cable routing for Di2
When in doubt check base in here & pay attention to any advice (esp Sebastian). It will save you hours of frustration
Post pix of new bike when completed :)
how much was the group set uesd?
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@Queen
The ebay link shows it at $1700 for the Shimano Ultegra R8070 Di2 Hydro Groupset
Prices are bit crazy at the moment & I don't know much about Di2, except what I've read.
That being said I am looking at converting my wife's Canyon Aeroroad SL from regular 105 to 105 Di2 & will likely go with the newer revision as it fixes a few issues with the last gen.
Also the 105 Di2 is much cheaper & there is barely any difference between that & the Ultegra & the 105 has dual batteries in the shifters so those will last a few years
If you are in Europe then Merlin Cycles has very good prices. Other than that you will need to look around
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Thank for your help and sorry for my bad explanation.
My question was where's installed the cable connection on this frame.
Please see the attached file.
hopefully this help. bottom of frame has a drop out port. an your junction a box should be a bar end.
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hopefully this help. bottom of frame has a drop out port. an your junction a box should be a bar end.
It is very helpful for me.
Thanks a lot.
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Im enjoying my frame. So Im just asking, Im not taking a dig at the product just making conversation
Just wondering if any one have any post build issues? I'm 1480 miles in on my build. I've come across 2. front derailleur hanger has movement. feels like 2 of the 3 rivets is secure. An the water bottle cage on me down tube. bottom bolt is just spins. for the most part their secure, but if I was to have to do a trans plant to another frame wondering if i should go with another 218 or look into something new.
I'm happy with the 750 (including shipping) I spent on the frameset. For what I paid to what I got in return I feel like I broke even so far. after all its a clone. I see maybe another 9 months before one of the 2 issues become a major problem and I need to replace the frameset. so I'm looking to the community for thoughts. by that time were looking at north of 3000 miles on the frameset. i never thought of these frames as a long term item. for 1 its carbon which make it disposable, and by it being a clone and suspect carbon we don't know the actual durability.
me and my specs
groupset di2 11 speed,172.5 crank ,4iii left side power meter elite wheels 55mm juntech brakes system.
frame size xxl
dirty wt.19 lbs /8.6kg (no saddle bag no water bottles) but with computer edge 1030 garmin and garmin radar and separate tail light
std weight full load 24 lbs/ 10.88 kg (saddle bag=1.5lbs and 2 750ml water bottles)
my wt as of this post 227.9lbs/ 103.3 kg
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Both issues could be fixed rather easily. Just saying. The bottle cage mount as well as the derailleur hanger rivet could be drilled out and you could install a new rivet / rivnut with one of these rivet guns. Just saying.
There’s a good video by Hambini about this:
https://youtu.be/-0MKuzeZA0k (https://youtu.be/-0MKuzeZA0k)
I haven’t had these issues so far. Knock on wood. But my mileage is lower than yours since I’m jumping between three different bikes. Mine has done just a little above 1000 miles. Hoping it lasts a while, though. I sure wasn’t planning on replacing it any time soon.
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Both issues could be fixed rather easily. Just saying. The bottle cage mount as well as the derailleur hanger rivet could be drilled out and you could install a new rivet / rivnut with one of these rivet guns. Just saying.
There’s a good video by Hambini about this:
https://youtu.be/-0MKuzeZA0k (https://youtu.be/-0MKuzeZA0k)
I haven’t had these issues so far. Knock on wood. But my mileage is lower than yours since I’m jumping between three different bikes. Mine has done just a little above 1000 miles. Hoping it lasts a while, though. I sure wasn’t planning on replacing it any time soon.
thanks your like a bike repair search engine. with that being out the way. i have nothing left to say
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Just wondering if any one have any post build issues? I'm 1480 miles in on my build. I've come across 2. front derailleur hanger has movement. feels like 2 of the 3 rivets is secure. An the water bottle cage on me down tube. bottom bolt is just spins. for the most part their secure, but if I was to have to do a trans plant to another frame wondering if i should go with another 218 or look into something new.
I'm happy with the 750 (including shipping) I spent on the frameset. For what I paid to what I got in return I feel like I broke even so far. after all its a clone. I see maybe another 9 months before one of the 2 issues become a major problem and I need to replace the frameset. so I'm looking to the community for thoughts. by that time were looking at north of 3000 miles on the frameset. i never thought of these frames as a long term item. for 1 its carbon which make it disposable, and by it being a clone and suspect carbon we don't know the actual durability.
me and my specs
groupset di2 11 speed,172.5 crank ,4iii left side power meter elite wheels 55mm juntech brakes system.
frame size xxl
dirty wt.19 lbs /8.6kg (no saddle bag no water bottles) but with computer edge 1030 garmin and garmin radar and separate tail light
std weight full load 24 lbs/ 10.88 kg (saddle bag=1.5lbs and 2 750ml water bottles)
my wt as of this post 227.9lbs/ 103.3 kg
Hi, in my experience with VB (I bought a 177 6 months a go) they offered a very good warranty service. In my case I received a seat post and a stem after some very small problem with that, withot any payment.
You can try asking them if your frame is under warranty.
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For anyone concerned about this being a "clone"
My bike weighed in at 16.7 lbs (size xl), campagnolo record rim brake group +Elite drive wheels (50") + Garmin 1030+ and varia radar + 2 bontrager ion lights (front/rear), durace pedals
Yes, you can beat the crap out of an actual Pinarello Dogma F, which I have done on this bike. ;D
(Most cyclists are nice genuinely curious, some are snots at a "chinese" frame....never mind that the Pinarello is made in Taiwan)
At the end of the day, what you have is a very unique personalized bike that you built with your very own hands & there's nothing else like it in your area (ie your logo etc)
and it's one of a kind to be enjoyed
Truth be told, I rode my "Blackbird SR-71" more times in a 1 month than I did my Trek Madone SL-7 eTap (awesome bike as well), because there was just something tactile about the mechanical shifting that really connected you to the bike & the immense satisfaction of riding something you built
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Just wondering if any one have any post build issues? I'm 1480 miles in on my build. I've come across 2. front derailleur hanger has movement. feels like 2 of the 3 rivets is secure. An the water bottle cage on me down tube. bottom bolt is just spins. for the most part their secure, but if I was to have to do a trans plant to another frame wondering if i should go with another 218 or look into something new.
FD mount issue has happened to me before. A local shop sorted this out for me in an hour or so. They only charged me $25, maybe this is an option of there's a good shop near you
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@madmax 16.7lbs light or heavy? i came into road bike on disk last rim bike I had was in the 90s. Should I push to get this takin care of asap (fd mount)? maybe I should rewite my post. I dont want any one to read it and thing it a bad product. Im happy with it. just at the price I paid for it, it gives me options to move on to another frame and not be pissed or raise hell of the minor things I have found which can be repair at home or by a shop. The price was one of the things that brought my attention to the Asian market of frames. were as western brands start at 2k for mid tiers and 6.5k for top. with my system weight and the jacked up roads in my area, im surpised any frame and wheelset made it this far. (wheelset has 7k miles 1 bearing went one from riding in the rain 15 dollar and i was back at it)
an i had to replace my bars i use the wrong threadlock on oem bars
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Yishun are now offering a somewhat inspired by F model (rather than obvious clone). Not sure if it'll be offered by LightCarbon for direct to consumer, or just to brands by Yishun.
https://www.yishunbike.com/product/r1088-daero-road/
I'd imagine it'll be much higher quality than the 218, though obviously if you want a clone it won't fit the bill.
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So I finished my build last week and I’ve been putting the frame thru its paces. I’ve had few reservations at the start but it’s turning out to be an impressive machine. I’ve had zero issues with the BB fitment and the only thing that needed real attention was making the rear brake housing exit bigger, 3D printing a more robust front deraillure cable exit and sanding/dremeling down the BB paint overspray and protruding rivet.
Major parts include: Sensah 12spd, look keo pedals, elite wheels and aliEx EEbrake replicas. Without the added crap and accessories it came in exactly 7kg (including bottle cages).
One advice I can give to anyone looking to build the frame is keep small files and a dremel handy!
What did you use the small files and the dremel for? :D
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My bike weighed in at 16.7 lbs (size xl), campagnolo record rim brake group +Elite drive wheels (50") + Garmin 1030+ and varia radar + 2 bontrager ion lights (front/rear), durace pedals
That's impressively light considering all the included accessories.
What does that Elite Drive wheelset weigh?
I have put on a set of Bontrager Speed Stop direct mount brakes and one of those silly light SROAD 11sp cassettes (220g for an 11-32) to my XXL rim brake build.
Other than that it's a Campy Centaur groupset but with a Record crankset and Favero Assioma PM pedals.
Built the wheelset myself. Sapim CX Ray spokes, 60mm deep and 30mm wide clincher rims, Novatec hub in the rear and a very nice Roval front hub that I had lying around that I polished to a nice shiny silver look. The wheels are not the lightest at around 1450g but they sure ride and look nice.
Including bottle cages and head unit mount the bike now weighs 7.75kg / 17lbs.
If I put on my silly light 60mm tubular wheels (yes, I still ride those and they're VERY NICE), I get the weight down to 7.5kg/16.5lbs.
I ride Vittoria Corsa tires - tubs as well as clinchers. So the tire weight is pretty identical.
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That's impressively light considering all the included accessories.
What does that Elite Drive wheelset weigh?
I have put on a set of Bontrager Speed Stop direct mount brakes and one of those silly light SROAD 11sp cassettes (220g for an 11-32) to my XXL rim brake build.
Other than that it's a Campy Centaur groupset but with a Record crankset and Favero Assioma PM pedals.
Built the wheelset myself. Sapim CX Ray spokes, 60mm deep and 30mm wide clincher rims, Novatec hub in the rear and a very nice Roval front hub that I had lying around that I polished to a nice shiny silver look. The wheels are not the lightest at around 1450g but they sure ride and look nice.
Including bottle cages and head unit mount the bike now weighs 7.75kg / 17lbs.
If I put on my silly light 60mm tubular wheels (yes, I still ride those and they're VERY NICE), I get the weight down to 7.5kg/16.5lbs.
I ride Vittoria Corsa tires - tubs as well as clinchers. So the tire weight is pretty identical.
Elite Drive 50V (rim brake), Team version, 1315g - 1500g
Campagnolo freebody 12spd, black decals
$1069 ...... $200 off so it came to ~ $900
https://www.elite-wheels.com/product/drive-50mm-rim-brake-carbon-spoke-wheelsetceramic-bearing/
Now, when I weigh my bike it shows 16.7 to 17.4 lbs
Either there is a gravitational anomaly in my garage or I added too much grease/lube when I was fixing the BB & added the crank back in ;D
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Seems like a great wheelset especially for the price.
I’ll stick with custom built wheels, though. I’m a DIY kind of guy. 8)
Glad to read that you managed to fix your BB!
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Hey anyone know what juin techs fit the 218? I want to order them but I want to get the right ones
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Hey anyone know what juin techs fit the 218? I want to order them but I want to get the right ones
You may want to see these videos where he puts together the same 218 frame with the Sensah components + disc brakes
https://www.youtube.com/@cycleandexplore/videos
Frankly, if I had to do this all over again & went with a disc brake, I would probably look at the SRAM AXS option for wireless shifting, because running 2 cables on each end of the handlebar was one of the most excruciating things I have ever done on a bike
and buy this cable routing kit for $16 (much cheaper than park tool & works just as well)...this will save you a lot of heartache, trying to fish cable through the frame
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B5WVXRWL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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You may want to see these videos where he puts together the same 218 frame with the Sensah components + disc brakes
https://www.youtube.com/@cycleandexplore/videos
Frankly, if I had to do this all over again & went with a disc brake, I would probably look at the SRAM AXS option for wireless shifting, because running 2 cables on each end of the handlebar was one of the most excruciating things I have ever done on a bike
and buy this cable routing kit for $16 (much cheaper than park tool & works just as well)...this will save you a lot of heartache, trying to fish cable through the frame
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0B5WVXRWL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I think there is a better-cheaper way....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9cW70vFwM
But thanks for the build guild... I dont know how much it will help as I am very handy... but never hurts to look.
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I think there is a better-cheaper way....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt9cW70vFwM
This is a great idea and it works. First hand experience when I converted my Fuji SL to semi internal. Wish I knew this while assembling the VB GF002.
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Heyo guys,
couple of weeks ago I posted some picture from a small crack in my seat tube. As Sebastian described I tried tightening and loosening the bolts the tiniest bit and see what happened. The crack actually widened, so no bueno...
I wrote to VB-Chris with some pictures. First he said it might only be surface level crack. But I could really tell it wasn't. Even tho it wasn't big I was way to concerned to ride down a hill with a Crack that moved slightly when tightening the bolts. But Chris pulled through and they send me a barebones Frame, which looks and fells pretty much identically to the old one. Just with bottle cage screws in black instead of silver. So I gues I will be rebuilding my bike then. Since the Crack appeared I have been riding the bike exclusively on my turbo trainer, because I was not comfy to go down hills or hit potholes with that crack...
Anyway can only support your opinion sebastian. This is a nice starting point in the world of building your own bikes, if you are ready to tamper and learn. And secondly I am also unsure if I will buy again, Yes they honored warranty, when I persisted, which is nice. But my bottle cages snapped and my garmin mount snapped when riding over normal road sufaces and a couple of cobbles... And lastly my seat tube cracked under the lower screw hole. I weigh 72 kg.
Idk just leaves a stale taste...
anyway, take care guys :)
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Anyway can only support your opinion sebastian. This is a nice starting point in the world of building your own bikes, if you are ready to tamper and learn. And secondly I am also unsure if I will buy again, Yes they honored warranty, when I persisted, which is nice. But my bottle cages snapped and my garmin mount snapped when riding over normal road sufaces and a couple of cobbles... And lastly my seat tube cracked under the lower screw hole. I weigh 72 kg.
Idk just leaves a stale taste...
anyway, take care guys :)
You might have gotten a bad batch of resin. Which does happen. There could be a ton of factor from bad batch to poor mixing. So your new frame may never have an issues. And being that this problem seems to be limited to your bike. and you are having so many issues with this frame. The frist thing that came to mind is resin issues. Personally I wouldnt ride that frame anymore at all.
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Well, the Garmin mount and the bottle cages don’t say anything about the frame, do they? Or did the mounting inserts in the frame break or come loose?
I bought a Garmin mount from Chris that is perfectly fine. It’s made out of aluminium though and it’s probably not the lightest.
Still, I understand your frustration, hurburt. Next time around at least I’d probably avoid being amongst the first buyers of a newly issued VB frame and let them iron out their issues first.
Or go one step higher and buy from sellers like Carbonda. I got a Carbonda gravel fork for my steel frame that was still very affordable and absolutely flawless. Two years later it’s still going strong.
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Well, the Garmin mount and the bottle cages don’t say anything about the frame, do they? Or did the mounting inserts in the frame break or come loose?
I bought a Garmin mount from Chris that is perfectly fine. It’s made out of aluminium though and it’s probably not the lightest.
Still, I understand your frustration, hurburt. Next time around at least I’d probably avoid being amongst the first buyers of a newly issued VB frame and let them iron out their issues first.
Or go one step higher and buy from sellers like Carbonda. I got a Carbonda gravel fork for my steel frame that was still very affordable and absolutely flawless. Two years later it’s still going strong.
My point is that carbon is not fool proof. their is a lot that can go bad.
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Chris sent out the replacement 218 frame and it arrived here a few weeks later with no issues.
They stood by their warranty and also sent out extra screws/spacers etc when I requested them at no charge, so I have had a good experience with Velobuild
In my case the loose insert in the BB could have been caused by the local bike shop overturning the Campy UT cup way past the 35nm mark, even after I told them not to do that & caused problems
Other than minor issues, I think the frame is very good value for money & I would have no hesitation buying from Velobuild again
In fact I am purchasing an extra fork/seatpost/handlebar & will use that on the old frame & make that into an indoor trainer bike & move my components etc on to the new frame & enjoy it
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Hi guys,
The Chrisses have been postponing my shipment over and over again. Originally it should've been sent out mid February. Is this normal?
Kr
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Hi guys,
The Chrisses have been postponing my shipment over and over again. Originally it should've been sent out mid February. Is this normal?
Kr
It may have to do with covid. and the shut downs china has. It effects the supply chain from making the needed materials to transportation. So we all still need to be patent with how quickly we get our bikes.
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Hey anyone know what juin techs fit the 218? I want to order them but I want to get the right ones
I put the F1s on mine.
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Look who arrived on Friday. First look of the frame is good, the paint job is superb for 50€. I can confirm they still haven't fixed the issue with the bolt in the bottom bracket, but since I knew that was coming it was a job of a few minutes with a dremel.
Bottom bracket is aligned well, so I have just kicked off the orders for the other components. Now back to waiting untill they arrive.
Total delivery time was longer than expected though. Ordered 29th of Jan. Shipment on 25th of Feb. Delivery in Germany on 10th of March.
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Total delivery time was longer than expected though. Ordered 29th of Jan. Shipment on 25th of Feb. Delivery in Germany on 10th of March.
Nice one, paintjob looks very good, especially for that price!
Which shipping method did you chose to Germany? Did you have to pay any additional duties or fees?
Thanks and greetings from Germany! ;)
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Which shipping method did you chose to Germany? Did you have to pay any additional duties or fees?
I wasn't aware you could chose different shopping. Mine says "EMS" on the invoice. The final delivery in Germany was done by DPD.
Apparently the shipping went through Belgium ans I didn't have to pay any additional fees other than the ~160€ that I paid to velobuild. Not sure if they are avoiding customs that way or if that already was included.
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I wasn't aware you could chose different shopping. Mine says "EMS" on the invoice. The final delivery in Germany was done by DPD.
Apparently the shipping went through Belgium ans I didn't have to pay any additional fees other than the ~160€ that I paid to velobuild. Not sure if they are avoiding customs that way or if that already was included.
Nice one, paintjob looks very good, especially for that price!
Which shipping method did you chose to Germany? Did you have to pay any additional duties or fees?
Thanks and greetings from Germany! ;)
i asked chris and he said i should use xbd shipping to avoid any customs etc. (that is for shipping to austria, which is probably the same as for germany)
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I’ve done around 2000k now on my VB218. No issues. I recently serviced my chain and noticed that my crankset spun VERY smoothly. So my initial concerns about possible BB misalignment seem unfounded. I had some seatpost slippage. I have since put some textile tape on the seatpost were it contacts the clamping wedge to see if that helps. We’ll see.
I put a pair of used Bontrager Speed Stop Pro brakes on this bike that I got very cheap. Those are nice brakes indeed. Particularly the braking power adjustment is cool so you can fine trim the brake feel to your particular brifter. The set weighs around 220g. They also have a lot of tire clearance. I’m confident that I could fit 32mm tires (measured width). My Vittoria Corsas currently measure around 29mm. I also put one of those one piece machined superlight SROAD cassettes from Aliexpress on. VERY nice piece of kit. Just around 230g for an 11-32 cassette. Shifting with Campag is super smooth. And, since this is one piece it completely eliminates cassette bite on alloy freehubs which is a bonus.
All this saves a bit of weight. The bike now weighs 7.7kg including power meter pedals, Garmin mount and bottle cages. With my tubular race wheels, I could get it down to 7.5kg. But that’s as low as it’s ever going to be. I’m pretty happy with that.
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@Sebastian
What skewers are those in the last pix ?
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@Sebastian
What skewers are those in the last pix ?
Those are screw axles from German bike retailer Rose: https://www.rosebikes.de/rose-lite-axle-spannachsen-50001
I bought them mainly for the looks. I don’t like how QR skewers look on this bike. Particularly on the fork. Also, I got a multi tool with me anyway when I’m out for a ride. So taking a wheel out isn’t a problem.
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Finished my build and just went for a short ride to check on everything. Rides very nicely, very stiff (I might change the rear tire from 25mm to 28mm to increase comfort). Overall I'm very happy with it and for the cost I cannot complain (warning: new toy syndrome). The fit is also nice, as I was afraid the frame could be too small. But the aero spacers and saddle setback make up for it. I'm 188cm tall with a 92cm inseam and long arms, got the XL Frame. I haven't decided on the final bike fit, so I still have 15mm 3d printed spacers on top - thanks to the stranger who designed these and put them on thingiverse! I'll also put some TPU on my 3d printer this weekend and see if I can draw up some grommets for the frame openings that I don’t need due to the electronic shifting and a seat post gasket.
The only issue I have not solved yet is some disc brake rubbing on the rear brake that I cannot get rid of at the moment. Possibly due to misaligned (unfaced) brake mounting points. I went with post mount brakes as I got the Sram Red groupset for 600€ cheaper than flat mount, so I had to use adapters that increase the distance between the calliper and the frame. Not sure if that worsens the issue. I might want to exchange the callipers to flat mount. Does anyone know if changing to flat mount callipers helps with the disc brake rubbing? Or does anyone have experience with DIY facing the brake mounts?
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Finished my build and just went for a short ride to check on everything. Rides very nicely, very stiff (I might change the rear tire from 25mm to 28mm to increase comfort). Overall I'm very happy with it and for the cost I cannot complain (warning: new toy syndrome). The fit is also nice, as I was afraid the frame could be too small. But the aero spacers and saddle setback make up for it. I'm 188cm tall with a 92cm inseam and long arms, got the XL Frame. I haven't decided on the final bike fit, so I still have 15mm 3d printed spacers on top - thanks to the stranger who designed these and put them on thingiverse! I'll also put some TPU on my 3d printer this weekend and see if I can draw up some grommets for the frame openings that I don’t need due to the electronic shifting and a seat post gasket.
The only issue I have not solved yet is some disc brake rubbing on the rear brake that I cannot get rid of at the moment. Possibly due to misaligned (unfaced) brake mounting points. I went with post mount brakes as I got the Sram Red groupset for 600€ cheaper than flat mount, so I had to use adapters that increase the distance between the calliper and the frame. Not sure if that worsens the issue. I might want to exchange the callipers to flat mount. Does anyone know if changing to flat mount callipers helps with the disc brake rubbing? Or does anyone have experience with DIY facing the brake mounts?
Nice build Matt what wheels are those I dig the finish and that paint is sparkly!!! Definitely go to a shop and get the brake mounts faced to help with the rubbing!
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Nice build Matt what wheels are those I dig the finish and that paint is sparkly!!! Definitely go to a shop and get the brake mounts faced to help with the rubbing!
That’s what I was gonna suggest. Your postmount calipers should be fine. The misalignment is most likely due to uneven brake mounts.
Nice bike! I dig the paintjob.
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Thanks both. I'm also positively surprised by the paint. Its quite hard to capture on camera, but the chameleon effect from green to purple as the light changes is cool. (I would laught at someone who has this on his car, but I'm a bike person after all).
I'll see if I can find someone with that hillariously expensive facing tool next week. But since it is Sunday and nothing is open, I fired up the 3d printed and made a nice gasket for the seatpost cover. Also a front derallieur gasket and rear derallieur gasket since I'm using wireless shifting. If anyone wants the files:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5917550
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5917583
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5917830
Nice build Matt what wheels are those
I purchased them from velobuild too. VB-RC-50-23/25mm 142x12 Carbon road Wheelset disc 25mm Width
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I purchased them from velobuild too. VB-RC-50-23/25mm 142x12 Carbon road Wheelset disc 25mm Width
Nice color choice. Looks fantastic! Will be interested in knowing how those wheels perform - so many VB frames here but not a single review of VB wheels. It makes perfect sense to order wheels too, in the same order as frameset.
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so many VB frames here but not a single review of VB wheels.
in fact, Patrick Lino had these wheels (the 38mm version) on his Velobuild 177, but he wasn't overly impressed by their ride feel and the heavy weight.
Check it out here: https://youtu.be/rxMNro-d22A
and here: https://youtu.be/JIsF_ropxME?t=396
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Finished my build and just went for a short ride to check on everything. Rides very nicely, very stiff (I might change the rear tire from 25mm to 28mm to increase comfort). Overall I'm very happy with it and for the cost I cannot complain (warning: new toy syndrome). The fit is also nice, as I was afraid the frame could be too small. But the aero spacers and saddle setback make up for it. I'm 188cm tall with a 92cm inseam and long arms, got the XL Frame. I haven't decided on the final bike fit, so I still have 15mm 3d printed spacers on top - thanks to the stranger who designed these and put them on thingiverse! I'll also put some TPU on my 3d printer this weekend and see if I can draw up some grommets for the frame openings that I don’t need due to the electronic shifting and a seat post gasket.
The only issue I have not solved yet is some disc brake rubbing on the rear brake that I cannot get rid of at the moment. Possibly due to misaligned (unfaced) brake mounting points. I went with post mount brakes as I got the Sram Red groupset for 600€ cheaper than flat mount, so I had to use adapters that increase the distance between the calliper and the frame. Not sure if that worsens the issue. I might want to exchange the callipers to flat mount. Does anyone know if changing to flat mount callipers helps with the disc brake rubbing? Or does anyone have experience with DIY facing the brake mounts?
Great looking bike. Look like a good paintjob as wel.
For rubbing I think trying without adapters is worth a try. Look better as well.
Small detail: your front tire is on backwards/the wrong way around :)
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I added the geo for all sizes to BikeInsight so you can compare geo with other bikes and get a graphic view of the differences.
https://bikeinsights.com/bikes/641dae592688e1001b2bf5fa-velobuild-218?version=2022&build=base
Example comparing 218 to 177
https://bikeinsights.com/compare?geometries=641dae5a2688e1001b2bf610,604f80118f67120017f7cdfa,
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Hi All,
Is the handlebar ready for Di2 installation? Is the small hole present in the bottom right part of the handlebar?
Thnaks a lot.
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Hi All,
Is the handlebar ready for Di2 installation? Is the small hole present in the bottom right part of the handlebar?
Thnaks a lot.
Hello sir,
Your comment just made me research how to install Di2 and I realized what a pain it ist, lol. Glad I went with sram etap.
In other words: no, the handlebars do not have the extra hole for Di2. Also the frame does not have the hole in the downtube like the dogma F has. There is a Di2 battery holder in the bottom bracket, though.
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Thanks for your comment:
someone has other suggestions?
@Sebastian ?
@kongo ?
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Thanks for your comment:
someone has other suggestions?
@Sebastian ?
@kongo ?
Did you already buy the Di2 groupset or had one lying around ?
If no, then the sram eTap is the easiest way to get a groupset on that frame & handlebar
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Thanks,
but I have already this group.
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Thanks for your comment:
someone has other suggestions?
@Sebastian ?
@kongo ?
There’s no holes in the bar but if you have a bar end junction you’ll be able to daisy chain the Di2 wires to the levers utilising the multiple di2 ports on them. And then route through the brake hose holes and from there to the frame and down to the battery and derailleurs - DI2 will basically shift correctly as long as all the components are connected in some way. Bettershifting.com is a great resource for this.
If you’re handy with a solder iron you can also save a few pennies by making your own wiring loom and avoid the need for multiple junction boxes.
I put the new 12 speed on mine so no need for wires in the handlebars but I may well install some at a later date to increase the system battery life (lasts longer when wired)
I’m still waiting for Chris to ship me a replacement frame after I had the cracked seattube issue Sebastian also had.
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My replacement frame showed up after much emailing back & forth
Note. They will only ship you the frame & not the seatpost or fork or handlebar.
I went ahead & paid another $300 to get another fork/seatpost/handlebar & they forgot to add in the Garmin mount, which I paid for & they have now stopped responding to emails & I have no idea if it will ever show up.
So at this point I have a fullblown set sitting in the garage with parts to make a whole new bike or move components over from existing bike, where I had the bb creak & the insert move around.
I did fix that (for now) by drilling a hole & pouring in RC-1 but now there other rattles in the front & I might just move over components to new frame & keep old one as a spare or put that bike on a trainer & just go with force eTap on the replacement frame (though now I am badly addicted to the Campagnolo Record mechanical shifting, after they sent a replacement FD & the tech fixed it & did a superb job)
I'd pay the extra $280 for the above 2 components & just keep them as a standby in case you need them.
You might be able to use RC-1 to bond the seatpost & just use the frame in a trainer at home, since it won't be safe to ride outside anywhere.
Keep the above in mind & keep in touch via email with "Chris" so you get your replacement frame. Their communication is fairly good given the latency & they do send out tracking #'s when they ship.
All in all, it was still an awesome learning experience & apart from some niggling issues, I would have no hesitation buying the same frame again to build a bike.
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Thanks,
but I have already this group.
If I was you, I'd probably use this method: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cON3w1IL_7k&t=547s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cON3w1IL_7k&t=547s)
Yes, it would require you to drill the bar down at the bar end where the junction box is inserted. But that can be done with pretty much no risk IMO. You then route from there externally below the bar tape to the right brifter. Connection between the brifters and into the frame can then be done by using the existing holes for brake and shifting lines. So there's minimal modification needed.
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My replacement frame showed up after much emailing back & forth
Note. They will only ship you the frame & not the seatpost or fork or handlebar.
I went ahead & paid another $300 to get another fork/seatpost/handlebar & they forgot to add in the Garmin mount, which I paid for & they have now stopped responding to emails & I have no idea if it will ever show up.
So at this point I have a fullblown set sitting in the garage with parts to make a whole new bike or move components over from existing bike, where I had the bb creak & the insert move around.
I did fix that (for now) by drilling a hole & pouring in RC-1 but now there other rattles in the front & I might just move over components to new frame & keep old one as a spare or put that bike on a trainer & just go with force eTap on the replacement frame (though now I am badly addicted to the Campagnolo Record mechanical shifting, after they sent a replacement FD & the tech fixed it & did a superb job)
I'd pay the extra $280 for the above 2 components & just keep them as a standby in case you need them.
You might be able to use RC-1 to bond the seatpost & just use the frame in a trainer at home, since it won't be safe to ride outside anywhere.
Keep the above in mind & keep in touch via email with "Chris" so you get your replacement frame. Their communication is fairly good given the latency & they do send out tracking #'s when they ship.
All in all, it was still an awesome learning experience & apart from some niggling issues, I would have no hesitation buying the same frame again to build a bike.
Thanks for the advice. ‘Chris’ responded this morning to say they could send a 1.5k frame out on Monday. There was a bit of confusion as they first said they would send a UD finish so I said this was fine but would want new forks as this would match.
I did also previously get a quote for $200 to change to the vb168 frame with all the additional components added but decided against.
I know what you mean with nice to have spare parts - also I may well paint/get somebody to paint this replacement frame before building it so new parts would be easier. Did they send you all new hardware too? Bearings clamps etc?
Then again. Part of me also thinks it’s another $200-300 dollars down the drain when I decide against using the new frame and go buy a western brand haha.
Last question: does everybody else’s frame seem to have a worrying amount of flex around bottle cage area on the downtube and the middle of the chain stays? I know you’re not supposed to ‘squeeze’ the carbon but honestly some of the wall thickness does worry me! Forks, handlebars and seatpost all seem solid but the frame just doesn’t seem to match.
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What exactly is a "western brand" when all frames are made in China or Taiwan
Might as well go further East & look back & now Velobuild is a "western brand" ;D
My 218 frame above is using the Campagnolo Record groupset with rim brakes & I have gone up & down the hills here in San Diego & bounced the bike around with zero flex or issues, apart from the BB one
Because I had to drill a hole in the bottom of the frame to pour in RC-1 to epoxy in the BB insert & prevent it from moving, I now know the thickness of the carbon is somewhere between 4-5mm & it is pretty well built
The whole setup above is lighter and faster than my 2021 Trek Madone SL-7 eTap with disc brakes & sram force groupset & I actually enjoy riding the 218 more than the Madone, except for the handlebar which is very uncomfortable on the hoods & the Bontrager bar is much better
(never thought I would say that for fear of hurting the Madone's feelings)
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@madmaxhow deep is your seatpost inserted into the frame when you had the issues with the frame splitting? I'm starting to worry if I should get a longer seatpost, since it is extended quite far.
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@madmaxhow deep is your seatpost inserted into the frame when you had the issues with the frame splitting? I'm starting to worry if I should get a longer seatpost, since it is extended quite far.
I have never had any frame splitting issues. My bike pix is on page 33 of this thread
Go to page# 33 and look at my bike "Blackbird" & view the full rez image and you will be able to figure out how much of the seatpost is in the frame
My frame is a size XL (56cm) & I think top of seat to center of crank is 47inches (could be wrong on this)
http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3650.0;attach=13865;image
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Here you go
Just took a pix with a tape measure and it’s 6.5”
Hope this helps
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Here you go
Just took a pix with a tape measure and it’s 6.5”
Hope this helps
Thank you very much for the picture. Apparently I have mistaken you for someone who had frame cracking at the seat post screws, haha. But thanks a ton for your effort
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Hi,
I am counfused about the size of the bike .
my height is 172cm
And my curent bike had the following measure :
reach: 450mm
effective top tube: 515 mm
top tube: 465mm (short size because Giant TCR1 (2005) compact frame)
If I take my reach and effective top tube, the VB-R-218 size would be between XS or S.
Does that make sense ?
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Hi,
I am counfused about the size of the bike .
my height is 172cm
And my curent bike had the following measure :
reach: 450mm
effective top tube: 515 mm
top tube: 465mm (short size because Giant TCR1 (2005) compact frame)
If I take my reach and effective top tube, the VB-R-218 size would be between XS or S.
Does that make sense ?
I am 177.8 cm or 5' 10" & the size XL is the correct size for me (56cm on a Trek)
See link below. I compared my SL 7 Madone with size L & XL on VBR-218 & XL was the correct size
https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/trek-madone-2021-56-cm,velobuild-vb-r-218-2022-525-xl,velobuild-vb-r-218-2022-520-l/
Do a similar comparison vs your TCR1 & then email "Chris" the results to get his suggestion
The 218 frame reach is shorter/more compact than my 56cm Madone & the bike is lighter
If the difference is +-1-3/1-3cm then go with the larger size, in this case "S"
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Thank you very much for the picture. Apparently I have mistaken you for someone who had frame cracking at the seat post screws, haha. But thanks a ton for your effort
That was me. I got my seatpost set up to a seat height of approx 81.5cm. The seat tube is 54cm tall on my XXL frame. I dunno how long exactly the seatpost is but I marked and measured it and it's inserted around 10cm. I'm pretty sure though that my frame cracked upon the first installing of the seatpost when torqued the bolts up to 4nm. At least I heard a cracking noise then. Actual cracks only showed after the second ride, though. But ever since I repaired it, it holds up fine. I still haven't built up my replacement frame because I see no reason to do so.
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Hi,
Wondering if someone bought the vbr218 without the integrated handlebar ??
I just contacted Chris and he informed me the frame come as a whole, frame, fork and handlebar.
I quoted : '218 bar is special which included in frame set .our other bar stem not fit'
I was planning to buy the velobuild separeated stem and handlebar
https://www.velobuildmall.com/products/2021-new-carbon-handlebar-with-separate-stem
I am really surprise that any other handlebar will fit ??
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I don’t see why you couldn’t use that stem and bar with the 218 frame. But you would have to use a different upper headset bearing compression ring. From what I can see, the compression ring that comes with the 218 will route two cables each left and right to line them up with two holes in the integrated bars. That stem however has only one big hole which won’t line up with the compression ring. The compression ring that comes with the 168 should work however, since that frameset is being sold with that bar and stem.
Also, the spacer and bar that come with the 218 frame fit best in terms of the shape. The headset top cap perfectly integrates into the frame and another top cap might look slightly odd. But that’s just aesthetics.
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Still waiting on replacement frame or an acknowledgment that one will actually be sent out
I was told a couple of weeks ago it would be sent, then a week later they asked me if it was the same address
Yesterday or day before, I asked for a tracking # & then then they asked again if it was the same shipping address (I have lived in the same home for 10+ years)
I guess I will see a frame at some point in time in the next couple of months & in the meantime going back to my Trek Madone & the vbr-218 will lie dismantled in the garage as all attempts to fix it have failed
It's a shame they didn't use more glue as I really do like the frame
Chris, also mailed out some extra screws & I think that got delayed in the mail, but finally showed up. So they do keep their word, though their tracking system & QC need a bit of work
I don't think anyone here should hesitate to try these frames, as it's a really good experience to learn how to build your own bike & it really is a very nice bike to ride on.
The problems you had on the frame make me think twice !
I am still debating if I should get a chineese frame !
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I don’t see why you couldn’t use that stem and bar with the 218 frame. But you would have to use a different upper headset bearing compression ring. From what I can see, the compression ring that comes with the 218 will route two cables each left and right to line them up with two holes in the integrated bars. That stem however has only one big hole which won’t line up with the compression ring. The compression ring that comes with the 168 should work however, since that frameset is being sold with that bar and stem.
Also, the spacer and bar that come with the 218 frame fit best in terms of the shape. The headset top cap perfectly integrates into the frame and another top cap might look slightly odd. But that’s just aesthetics.
maybe better to stick to the integrated nandle bar.
Or just go for the vbr-168 frame .. But I am not very keen to have a BB86 press fit, I have the feeling that maintenance would be hard , for example if i want to clean the BB interior frame
Am i right or wrong on thses assumptions ?
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maybe better to stick to the integrated nandle bar.
Or just go for the vbr-168 frame .. But I am not very keen to have a BB86 press fit, I have the feeling that maintenance would be hard , for example if i want to clean the BB interior frame
Am i right or wrong on thses assumptions ?
You can buy a press fit BB that threads together internally, making it easier IMO to take apart and put back together for servicing, etc instead of having to hammer the BB out. I've been using this ZTTO one with ceramic for over a year and it's been great. Make sure to use the right tool(s) though, as you can easily chew out teeth or squash the BB since it's AL and not super strong. Other brands like Wheels Manufacturing make them as well if you want a more premium one.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832836732250.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.98.63f71802WAqpCm&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US
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You can buy a press fit BB that threads together internally, making it easier IMO to take apart and put back together for servicing, etc instead of having to hammer the BB out. I've been using this ZTTO one with ceramic for over a year and it's been great. Make sure to use the right tool(s) though, as you can easily chew out teeth or squash the BB since it's AL and not super strong. Other brands like Wheels Manufacturing make them as well if you want a more premium one.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832836732250.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.98.63f71802WAqpCm&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US
interesting !
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Not sure what you mean by cleaning the interior of the BB. A press fit assembly is best left alone once it’s installed and creak free. That’s why IMO it’s best to install a BB that comes as a one piece shell or a thread together two piece shell like the ones from Wheels Mfg. Once those are in you can then just replace the bearings if necessary by knocking the old ones out and pressing a set of new bearings into the shell which remains in the frame.
At least on the PF30 frame that I had, the fitment deteriorated with each new BB that I pressed in until I had to use Loctite for a good and creak free fit. But maybe that’s not the case with every frame. I dunno.
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VBR-218 bike computer mount showed up yesterday.
Either Chris is reading these forums or saw my earlier email & mailed it out & forgot to send a reply & it showed up 1 month later
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Not sure what you mean by cleaning the interior of the BB. A press fit assembly is best left alone once it’s installed and creak free. That’s why IMO it’s best to install a BB that comes as a one piece shell or a thread together two piece shell like the ones from Wheels Mfg. Once those are in you can then just replace the bearings if necessary by knocking the old ones out and pressing a set of new bearings into the shell which remains in the frame.
At least on the PF30 frame that I had, the fitment deteriorated with each new BB that I pressed in until I had to use Loctite for a good and creak free fit. But maybe that’s not the case with every frame. I dunno.
on my current bike, i remove the BB annually and found dust and sans inside of the BB shell. thats what i mean cleaning
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There’s no need to clean the inside of the BB shell IMO. You could clean and relube your bearings. But on most bearings the seals can’t easily be popped off and reinstalled and you might do more harm than good. I usually leave it alone. At most, I take out the crank once in a while and remove debris and dirt that’s caught inbetween the crank arm and the BB. Once the bearings sound rough, I might attempt to clean and relube them. But that usually doesn’t really prolong their life significantly. Once they start sounding rough that’s usually a sign that they need replacing. With all that said, I don’t feel like my BBs wear out prematurely. But I had two PF30 frames and on those, the BB bearings did not last as long as the BB on my BSA road bikes. I bought a used Campy crank from 2009 for my steel road bike. No idea how old the bearings were. But after around 10.000k one of them needed replacing. The used record square taper BB on my commuter was more than ten years old when I bought it. I rode it for five years in all weathers including salty winter roads with absolutely no maintenance. And it still wins every spin test.
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Did you already buy the Di2 groupset or had one lying around ?
If no, then the sram eTap is the easiest way to get a groupset on that frame & handlebar
sorry, for late reply but no. what junction A box are u planing to use?
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guys, update from me.
I am waiting for replacement frame. It cracked around the seat post holes. Chris handled it very well. After asking to sand to confirm the cracks, he confirmed quickly they would send a replacement.
Now it shipped and he advised it was a different UD finish. Also shipped from HK. New facility? Anyone got that finish?
For the di2 people, see what I did. The strap did not fit anyway and I think this looks pretty clean. Only other option would be the 150$ end bar junctio
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Also pic of the bike before the cracks :)
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Woo got my frame!!! mint and turquoise with pearl white. The paint has all the issues that everyone says. but I still like it over the black. I am going to add some stickers... woo pride... to the parts I dont like... and need to get grip paste and lube. What does everyone suggest for those??
also to see if there is any major issues with the frame as I built it. thats the scary part... to see if the frame I just got is decent. or is there is alinemnt issues like in the BB... I still dont know why they dont use a 1 peice BB>
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Woo got my frame!!! mint and turquoise with pearl white. The paint has all the issues that everyone says. but I still like it over the black. I am going to add some stickers... woo pride... to the parts I dont like... and need to get grip paste and lube. What does everyone suggest for those??
also to see if there is any major issues with the frame as I built it. thats the scary part... to see if the frame I just got is decent. or is there is alinemnt issues like in the BB... I still dont know why they dont use a 1 peice BB>
Congratulations on the new frame/bike.
Print this page out for torque specs. This frame (VBR-218) is identical to the F12 Dogma
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1949164/Pinarello-Dogma-F12-Series.html?page=5
Don't worry about threadlocker (I did not use any)
DO NOT over-tighten any screws/bolts beyond the rated spec & use a good torque wrench
Enjoy the bike & post completed pix
Edit:
The frame will ship with carbon paste for the seatpost and thats the only place it should be used
For bottom bracket, fork etc, I strongly suggest picking up a tube of PPL-1000 (ParkTool Polylube), unless you happen to have specialist grease already in your workshop
Route the cables through the handlebar before your attach to fork & don't cut anything unless you are sure about your reach/height
I did mine backwards & really suffered through the install, because it was a Campagnolo rim brake/mechanical so 2 cables each side & it was very difficult to work with
If you have the flat aero handlebar on the vbr-218 then use a nice 2.5 or 3mm tape like Bontrager, because putting your hands on the tops/flat part will tire them out
Yeah, I know this sound wierd but I have more hand pain on this handlebar than on my actual Trek Madone & when I redo the tape I will use a thicker one as mentioned above.
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Congratulations on the new frame/bike.
Print this page out for torque specs. This frame (VBR-218) is identical to the F12 Dogma
https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1949164/Pinarello-Dogma-F12-Series.html?page=5
Don't worry about threadlocker (I did not use any)
DO NOT over-tighten any screws/bolts beyond the rated spec & use a good torque wrench
Enjoy the bike & post completed pix
Of course I got to post a pic. And I have a number of torque wrenches. I tighten things to spec... And I dont plan to cut the tube Til I get a feel. however the seat post might get shorter. and I got an extra set of head tube spacers So I can go as high as I need. I am all torso short legs. I am 6ft tall and sit taller then almost everyone. ANd I got big hands too. So I wonder about the bars. I am tall lady.
Edit:
The frame will ship with carbon paste for the seatpost and thats the only place it should be used
For bottom bracket, fork etc, I strongly suggest picking up a tube of PPL-1000 (ParkTool Polylube), unless you happen to have specialist grease already in your workshop
Route the cables through the handlebar before your attach to fork & don't cut anything unless you are sure about your reach/height
I did mine backwards & really suffered through the install, because it was a Campagnolo rim brake/mechanical so 2 cables each side & it was very difficult to work with
If you have the flat aero handlebar on the vbr-218 then use a nice 2.5 or 3mm tape like Bontrager, because putting your hands on the tops/flat part will tire them out
Yeah, I know this sound wierd but I have more hand pain on this handlebar than on my actual Trek Madone & when I redo the tape I will use a thicker one as mentioned above.
of course a pic... And I got big hands. So I think the bars should be fine. I was going to get some finish line grip paste. I have the juintech gts. I got the jagwire cables. I need to order the saddle... I totally forgot about it. Also I am all torso and small legs. So I bought another set of top tube spacers and I mght cut the seat post if I can drop it more.
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of course a pic... And I got big hands. So I think the bars should be fine. I was going to get some finish line grip paste. I have the juintech gts. I got the jagwire cables. I need to order the saddle... I totally forgot about it. Also I am all torso and small legs. So I bought another set of top tube spacers and I mght cut the seat post if I can drop it more.
Please use Jagwire foam over the cables...I cannot stress this enough.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C32KBG9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Both Sebastian & I have the same frame & there is a rattle in the front on mine & it can get really annoying, so be liberal with the foam & you can always trim it later
I would be hesitant to cut the seatpost, if you get away with dropping it lower. Someone else can chime in & help you here since a few people have had seat post issues
Also the seatpost bolts have a habit of falling & vanishing & you will need 1x M5x30mm & 1 x M5x35mm if that ever happens, so get saddle angle correct & use a tiny bit of threadlocker
I'm adding the parts below for your reference, but you can find them much cheaper at a hardware store
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NNR2H4Q/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1&psc=1
If you are using a varia radar then this aluminum mount will work very well with your seat
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07NTZ6HWK/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
I'm using the Bontrager Aero Comp saddle, which is usually $129 but goes on sale at summit bicycles for $79 & they have other saddles
(Bontrager because the saddle has an integrated mount for Ion Flare lights)
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Quick update on my end:
I noticed in the long run, that I routed my rear brake housing a bit too short, causing a kink in the housing at the headset and bad rear brake action.
So I needed to put in new housing and therefore take apart the whole bike basically.
So I decided to finally build up the replacement frame instead just for the sake of trying it. Also, I switched the groupset from Campy 11sp Centaur to 12sp Record - sourced the parts slightly used for cheap. Mechanical rim brake stuff isn't really worth much any more in this day and age.
The build turned out very nice. The seatpost clamping area holds up. The BB did not cause me any trouble. The cups screwed right in, the cranks spin smoothly.
Headtube bearing seats were slightly less tight on this frame, but the surface was a lot nicer finished. On my first frame it looked kinda rough. On this, it seems it was finished with some kind of lacquer coating. Again, I needed to drill the rear brake cable exit hole at the top tube. I explicitly told Chris at VB to make sure it's properly sized and he promised to take care of it. But alas, I guess stuff like this is just something you need to be prepared to do with Chiner frames.
I got another one of the superlight SROAD cassettes. A 12sp 11-32 cassette made from one block of steel, weighing about 215g. They only had it in stock in rainbow colors. Wouldn't have been my favorite choice but now that it's on the bike, I quite like it. I found these one piece cassettes to transfer more noise, especially in combination with deep wheels. So if you like your drivetrain to be dead silent, they might not be the best choice.
The build turned out very nice. I really like the bike. I dropped some weight in the process. This build as pictured, including all accessories (without Wahoo, bottles and saddle bag of course) does now weigh 7.6kg for the biggest available frame size (XXL/54).
Thanks also to madmax for giving me setup tips with Record 12sp.
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Awesome build Sebastian
"The build turned out very nice. I really like the bike. I dropped some weight in the process."
Yes, routing 3 cables through that handlebar and frame can result in a minor weight loss after struggling for a few hours and greatly improved muscle tone
;D
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Turns out my aftermarket 11sp chainrings don’t play well with 12sp chains. At least on the inner ring the chain skips on steep inclines. On the big ring it’s fine probably because the chain is engaging on more teeth.
I’ll replace the inner ring now with a Super Record 12sp one and see if that fixes things.
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Turns out my aftermarket 11sp chainrings don’t play well with 12sp chains. At least on the inner ring the chain skips on steep inclines. On the big ring it’s fine probably because the chain is engaging on more teeth.
I’ll replace the inner ring now with a Super Record 12sp one and see if that fixes things.
Use the 11-34 Super Record 12spd cassette. Don't alter chain length till you test it.
I think I sent you a detailed parts list one of our earlier emails so your build parts should be identical
Let me know if you have any issues & I'll help out
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Use the 11-34 Super Record 12spd cassette. Don't alter chain length till you test it.
I think I sent you a detailed parts list one of our earlier emails so your build parts should be identical
Let me know if you have any issues & I'll help out
I don’t think the cassette is to blame here. It shifts fine. The chain is skipping on the chainring. Exactly why I’m not sure yet. If the problem was cross chaining, then in theory it should be just as bad if not worse when on the big ring as cross chaining is much worse when in big/big. Yet it doesn’t happen. I continued my ride climbing in the big ring, therefore cross chaining much more and no chain skipping. I can also see the marks on the inner chainring so I’m sure this is where it happened. It is a set of chainrings of the same type. Aftermarket Campy rings from TA Specialites in France. But for some reason it only happens on the small ring. I’ll see if a different inner ring fixes the problem.
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I think it is widely accepted that with 12sp, you can use 11sp chainrings and people even use 12sp chains to quieten down their 11sp drivetrains, but it might not work perfectly. Remember how much trouble the pro peloton had when Shimano introduced 12sp but couldn’t supply whole groupsets? The teams combined 12sp groups with 11sp powermeter cranksets. The result was that guys were dropping their chains left and right.
I think I just stumbled upon a particularly bad combination here.
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I think it is widely accepted that with 12sp, you can use 11sp chainrings and people even use 12sp chains to quieten down their 11sp drivetrains, but it might not work perfectly. Remember how much trouble the pro peloton had when Shimano introduced 12sp but couldn’t supply whole groupsets? The teams combined 12sp groups with 11sp powermeter cranksets. The result was that guys were dropping their chains left and right.
I think I just stumbled upon a particularly bad combination here.
I get a chain drop when I am in my large in the front & use the left & right thumb shifters to drop to small in front & rear simultaneously
This has happened a couple of times so I stopped doing that & my bike tech Yao said that he had set the FD cable as tight as possible for a smooth shift & it does shift nicely
Put your bike on a stand & record the gears as you spin the crank & switch gears & lets see what is goin on & email me the video
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I got some new wheels and tires :)
Reserve 34|37 wrapped in GP5000 TR 30c
Bike rides totally different now
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I get a chain drop when I am in my large in the front & use the left & right thumb shifters to drop to small in front & rear simultaneously
This has happened a couple of times so I stopped doing that & my bike tech Yao said that he had set the FD cable as tight as possible for a smooth shift & it does shift nicely
My chain does not drop when shifting. The FD shifts just fine both ways. I was just making a point about the limited compatibility between 12sp chains and 11sp chainrings.
I have a 12sp inner ring with me tomorrow. I’ll install that and see if it fixes things. I’ll give an update then.
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I discussed my issue over on the WW forum. Graeme Freestone King, pro mechanic and UK Campag distributor chimed in. He confirmed that my chainrings are to blame. There's already limited compatibility between original Campag 11sp rings and 12sp chains, usually at least resulting in accelerated wear. Now I'm running aftermarket chainrings, so compatibility is unknown. Shimano as well advises against combining 11sp chainrings and 12sp chains. I'm switching over to 12sp chainrings now.
I did another ride yesterday. I got around 400k on this groupset now and I can definitely see wear marks on bot chainrings that weren't there when I was using 11sp chains. I was hoping I could get around swapping chainrings, but oh well. So be it.
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I discussed my issue over on the WW forum. Graeme Freestone King, pro mechanic and UK Campag distributor chimed in. He confirmed that my chainrings are to blame. There's already limited compatibility between original Campag 11sp rings and 12sp chains, usually at least resulting in accelerated wear. Now I'm running aftermarket chainrings, so compatibility is unknown. Shimano as well advises against combining 11sp chainrings and 12sp chains. I'm switching over to 12sp chainrings now.
I did another ride yesterday. I got around 400k on this groupset now and I can definitely see wear marks on bot chainrings that weren't there when I was using 11sp chains. I was hoping I could get around swapping chainrings, but oh well. So be it.
Now you will be 100% Campagnolocal3rdpartyparts
Let me now about your chain length/number of links, since we discussed this earlier. Your large-large combo issue should go away
Cleaned out cassette and chain yesterday with degreaser & used Finish Line Dry Lube & there was zero "clanking" on the ride to the beach & back & shifting was very smooth
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Noticed a crack in my seatstay the other day. Opened an inquiry with velobuild about a warranty exchange. Anyone else have any experience with it?
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Where exactly is this on the seat stay? Rather close to the seat tube junction by the looks of it? Weird place for a crack to happen IMO. First step would probably be to sand a way the paint and inspect the carbon. Chris/Velobuild will probably ask you to do this anyway.
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Where exactly is this on the seat stay? Rather close to the seat tube junction by the looks of it? Weird place for a crack to happen IMO. First step would probably be to sand a way the paint and inspect the carbon. Chris/Velobuild will probably ask you to do this anyway.
Yep that is where it is. I will wait for velobuild response before sanding. Dont want to get blamed for anything by jumping ahead. I sent pictures as well as a video showing the crack flexing under load.
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It might have to do with the dropped stays. That creates more stress in this area. Still it shouldn’t happen of course. Let’s see how VB handle this.
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It might have to do with the dropped stays. That creates more stress in this area. Still it shouldn’t happen of course. Let’s see how VB handle this.
They are replacing the frame. I will keep this updated if/when I get tracking information and frame.
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There's already limited compatibility between original Campag 11sp rings and 12sp chains, usually at least resulting in accelerated wear. Now I'm running aftermarket chainrings, so compatibility is unknown.
I fit 12sp chainrings to my cranks today. 52/36 teeth combo. This seems to have fixed my issues. Chain runs quieter now. Front shifting is smooth. No chain skipping anymore on the small ring. I rode up a steep incline and everything was smooth. I deliberately tried to make the chain skip but it wouldn’t. So all good now.
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Have anyone bought another handlebar and installed it? I might need a 80mm stem and from what I can see, they only have 90mm.
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I fit 12sp chainrings to my cranks today. 52/36 teeth combo. This seems to have fixed my issues. Chain runs quieter now. Front shifting is smooth. No chain skipping anymore on the small ring. I rode up a steep incline and everything was smooth. I deliberately tried to make the chain skip but it wouldn’t. So all good now.
Nice work there, glad it all worked out.
If you are in the large ring in the front & stand up and power up an incline and press both thumb shifters at the same time, a correctly setup Campy will shift front & back instantly under full torque with zero issues or dropouts.
Obviously this is not recommended practice all the time, but a Campy is the only groupset that I have seen/owned/used that can handle this & it is by far the best mechanical shifting system I have ever used
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Qn from a newbie.
I have a 105 mechanical groupset on an old bike with rim brakes. Was looking at at buying a new chinese carbon frame, and transfer components on and just buy a wheelset giving me a new bike in effect for very little outlay.
Is the VB-R-218 my best option ?
I will be handing it to someone to do, will it be straightforward with the cabling given its mechanical
Has the headset issue been resolved with a new ring or is it still an issue. If it is, then this rules it out.
Thanks
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Qn from a newbie.
I have a 105 mechanical groupset on an old bike with rim brakes. Was looking at at buying a new chinese carbon frame, and transfer components on and just buy a wheelset giving me a new bike in effect for very little outlay.
Is the VB-R-218 my best option ?
I will be handing it to someone to do, will it be straightforward with the cabling given its mechanical
Has the headset issue been resolved with a new ring or is it still an issue. If it is, then this rules it out.
Thanks
Unless your old groupset has direct mount rim brakes, you would have to get new ones for this frame.
Is it straightforward? Well it depends on the skills of your mechanic. It is a fully internally routed frame. So installing a fully mechanical groupset on this and routing everything through the headset is obviously a bit of a nightmare job. Also, you will most likely have to drill the rear brake cable exit hole bigger on the top tube as it’s seemingly too small the way the frame is coming out of the mold. So no. it’s not straightforward. ;-)
There’s no issues that I know of with the compression ring on this frame. That would be the 168 and 177, I believe.
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Unless your old groupset has direct mount rim brakes, you would have to get new ones for this frame.
Is it straightforward? Well it depends on the skills of your mechanic. It is a fully internally routed frame. So installing a fully mechanical groupset on this and routing everything through the headset id obviously a bit of a nightmare job. Also, you will most likely have to drill the rear brake cable exit hole bigger on the top tube as it’s seemingly too small the way the frame is coming out of the mold. So no. it’s not straightforward. ;-)
There’s no issues that I know of with the compression ring on this frame. That would be the 168 and 177, I believe.
I have gone back and forth for a while now and would you still recommend this bike frame? :)
I remember that you also had rim brakes. Which wheelset did you got for that? :)
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I have gone back and forth for a while now and would you still recommend this bike frame? :)
I remember that you also had rim brakes. Which wheelset did you got for that? :)
Well, if you’re looking for something like this, as in an aero rim brake frame with internal routing and if you’re fine with owning a replica then yes, I can recommend it.
Make sure to read this thread and be prepared for the issues you might have. But I love riding this bike. And I particularly love the geometry and handling as well as the ergonomics of the bars. Also to me this bike represents peak rim brake, the end of an era. Just as Campy 12sp represents peak mechanical groupsets for me. That’s why I wanted to build one. But I would never be able to spend 6grand on a real Dogma F frame nor do I expect this VB frame to perform the same.
It’s just a nice bike to ride. And a fast one at that.
The wheels are fully custom. Built by me. Front hub is an old Roval that I polished. Rear hub is Novatec. Sapim CX Ray spokes. 60mm deep, 30mm wide, 23mm internal. Grooved brake track. About 1450g weight. I sourced the rims from an Aliexpress seller that I’ve had good experience with in the past.
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Well, if you’re looking for something like this, as in an aero rim brake frame with internal routing and if you’re fine with owning a replica then yes, I can recommend it.
Make sure to read this thread and be prepared for the issues you might have. But I love riding this bike. And I particularly love the geometry and handling as well as the ergonomics of the bars. Also to me this bike represents peak rim brake, the end of an era. Just as Campy 12sp represents peak mechanical groupsets for me. That’s why I wanted to build one. But I would never be able to spend 6grand on a real Dogma F frame nor do I expect this VB frame to perform the same.
It’s just a nice bike to ride. And a fast one at that.
The wheels are fully custom. Built by me. Front hub is an old Roval that I polished. Rear hub is Novatec. Sapim CX Ray spokes. 60mm deep, 30mm wide, 23mm internal. Grooved brake track. About 1450g weight. I sourced the rims from an Aliexpress seller that I’ve had good experience with in the past.
Get these . Elite Wheels Drive 50V
https://www.elite-wheels.com/product/drive-50mm-rim-brake-carbon-spoke-wheelset-ceramic-bearing/
Check online for discount codes, notably gcperformance on YouTube..... you could save up to $200
I am using the above wheels on the vbr-218 frame & they are exceptionally well made
Also get direct mount brakes per Seb's suggestion earlier & use the correct pads for carbon wheels
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Well, if you’re looking for something like this, as in an aero rim brake frame with internal routing and if you’re fine with owning a replica then yes, I can recommend it.
Make sure to read this thread and be prepared for the issues you might have. But I love riding this bike. And I particularly love the geometry and handling as well as the ergonomics of the bars. Also to me this bike represents peak rim brake, the end of an era. Just as Campy 12sp represents peak mechanical groupsets for me. That’s why I wanted to build one. But I would never be able to spend 6grand on a real Dogma F frame nor do I expect this VB frame to perform the same.
It’s just a nice bike to ride. And a fast one at that.
The wheels are fully custom. Built by me. Front hub is an old Roval that I polished. Rear hub is Novatec. Sapim CX Ray spokes. 60mm deep, 30mm wide, 23mm internal. Grooved brake track. About 1450g weight. I sourced the rims from an Aliexpress seller that I’ve had good experience with in the past.
I dont mind replica tbh and internal routing are
the thing that I am most looking for. Been going back and forth between VBR099 as well as this one. The 2nd thing for me is that I am still confused if I should go disc or rims.
I am reading on and off from time to time and I understand that theres is a major issue with the BB. That is a shame that they are using BSA.
Oh are the bars ergonomic? I was actually a bit worry about them. But if they crack in the future, are we locked into VBs handlebar as I understand that they are somewhat propietary or perhaps I just misunderstood it all? :)
That makes sense, for you its entirely another story regarding the meaning of this bike than I do tbh. Thought that it would be fun to build a bike on my own without any experience nor do I own a bike(just borrows my brothers gravelbike all the time).
Oh damn! That is really nice! May I ask which seller? :)
Get these . Elite Wheels Drive 50V
https://www.elite-wheels.com/product/drive-50mm-rim-brake-carbon-spoke-wheelset-ceramic-bearing/
Check online for discount codes, notably gcperformance on YouTube..... you could save up to $200
I am using the above wheels on the vbr-218 frame & they are exceptionally well made
Also get direct mount brakes per Seb's suggestion earlier & use the correct pads for carbon wheels
Oh they are sure really nice! I was also thinking roughly 50mm.
Alright! Thanks, will note it down :)
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Have anyone bought another handlebar and installed it? I might need a 80mm stem and from what I can see, they only have 90mm.
You can get a standard stem from pinarello that will allow you to use a different bar but it must also be full internal routing.
As far as replacement bars? You get original Dogma F bars or you can get replica bars from Aliexpress for around $120 USD.
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1000km Update!
Still in love with this frame. Stiff, rides like a dream and it fits my body type very well (loong arms) . Brake misalignment issue is still only 99% fixed, as I still have some disc rubbing when I go out of the saddle. Still hoping this will eventually fade when the brake pads bed in more, but I might have to do some more effort into re-centering again.
However, I don't have any issues with the frame. No cracks, no creaking, no rattling. Nothing!
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The wheels are fully custom. Built by me. Front hub is an old Roval that I polished. Rear hub is Novatec. Sapim CX Ray spokes. 60mm deep, 30mm wide, 23mm internal. Grooved brake track. About 1450g weight. I sourced the rims from an Aliexpress seller that I’ve had good experience with in the past.
Could you share the link? Very interested. :)
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Could you share the link? Very interested. :)
These are the rims that I got: https://a.aliexpress.com/_ExitYVH (https://a.aliexpress.com/_ExitYVH)
The seller offers all kinds of customisation options, lightweight versions of their rims, spoke upgrades, custom weave and decals. And they got lots of options they don’t actually list on Aliexpress, including the 60mm version of these rims.
They are advertised as being 28mm external/21mm internal. I got them for rim brakes with a machined and grooved brake track. But I’ve measured them to be actually wider than that. They are 22.5mm internal and 29.2 at the brake track. 30mm just below the brake track. I got 25c Vittoria Corsas on there which end up being 28mm wide. See my pictures.
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Like I said, I only bought the rims and built the wheels myself because I already had the hubs lying around. If you start from zero, I’d actually recommend buying a whole wheelset instead of individual parts because the pricing for a complete set is actually the better deal.
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They are replacing the frame. I will keep this updated if/when I get tracking information and frame.
Replacement frame has been shipped. I'll keep this updated as I get the replacement.
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Replacement frame has been shipped. I'll keep this updated as I get the replacement.
Might as well spend the extra money & get a fork & seatpost & keep them around
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Might as well spend the extra money & get a fork & seatpost & keep them around
Good idea. I messaged them and asked.
Replacement frame came in today. Looks pretty good from what I can see. Rear axle inserts easier than previous frame. Much smoother. Still paint on bottom bracket threads, resin puddle in headset cups, rear brake holes are uneven. Not too far off my first one.
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I've done 4000k now on this bike - well, about 1.5k on the new frame, the rest on the old one. I'm really really happy with it.
I've done an ultra event last weekend - 420km / 3600m of climbing in about 14h - part of it through the night. The bike felt really really comfy. It certainly isn't slow uphill and it just rolls so well on the flat and downhill. I've put an 28c Vittoria Corsa on the back, which measures pretty much exactly 30mm. The front is a 25c which measures 28mm. Very comfy setup and still super fast.
At least on the rim brake frame, 30mm in the back is the limit IMO. You could put a 32mm in there, but it gets pretty tight at the rim brake mounts on each side of the seat stays. Clearance at the chain stays is still fine.
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I've done 4000k now on this bike - well, about 1.5k on the new frame, the rest on the old one. I'm really really happy with it.
I've done an ultra event last weekend - 420km / 3600m of climbing in about 14h - part of it through the night. The bike felt really really comfy. It certainly isn't slow uphill and it just rolls so well on the flat and downhill. I've put an 28c Vittoria Corsa on the back, which measures pretty much exactly 30mm. The front is a 25c which measures 28mm. Very comfy setup and still super fast.
At least on the rim brake frame, 30mm in the back is the limit IMO. You could put a 32mm in there, but it gets pretty tight at the rim brake mounts on each side of the seat stays. Clearance at the chain stays is still fine.
Very nice. What happened with the frame swap?
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Very nice. What happened with the frame swap?
I had to redo the rear brake housing and cabling. With the frame being fully internally routed, that meant tearing apart the headset and pretty much rerouting all cables and housings. When I did that, I thought I might as well build up the new frame that had been lying around for months. The old one is now hanging on the wall.
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Good idea. I messaged them and asked.
Replacement frame came in today. Looks pretty good from what I can see. Rear axle inserts easier than previous frame. Much smoother. Still paint on bottom bracket threads, resin puddle in headset cups, rear brake holes are uneven. Not too far off my first one.
150$ USD for the following
Fork
Seatpost 0 degree offset
Seatpost clamp/wedge
Complete Headset
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I just started my built and the hanger bolt for the groupset I bought a while back from someone on this forum.... thread is marred. I just ruined one of my hangers.
Good thing I got 5 more. And I going to try to re tap it and get a new one.
Also I seem to have a good BB alignment. Woo Now to get the brakes faced.
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Please use Jagwire foam over the cables...I cannot stress this enough.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07C32KBG9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Both Sebastian & I have the same frame & there is a rattle in the front on mine & it can get really annoying, so be liberal with the foam & you can always trim it later
Hey I finally got the foam. So where is the best places for it besides the down tube and stays? front fork? the handle bars?
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Hey I finally got the foam. So where is the best places for it besides the down tube and stays? front fork? the handle bars?
fork and bar, dont even try, cannot possibly fit.
In the frame, i built 4 bikes recently, have used foam on most, can't tell any difference. Use some WD40 type spray to help the foam slide onto the housing, can get very tight and super frustrating otherwise.
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Hey I finally got the foam. So where is the best places for it besides the down tube and stays? front fork? the handle bars?
I used it mainly in the downtube. It does make a difference on my VB218. I built the first frame without foam liner and it rattled like hell. I also used it on the rear brake housing through the top tube. But that doesn't concern you on a disc frame.
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150$ USD for the following
Fork
Seatpost 0 degree offset
Seatpost clamp/wedge
Complete Headset
To my surprise, my items were shipped within the same week as payment. I should have them this week as they are already in the USA. I have some updates on my original frame I will share when my additional components arrive.
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Big update time.
My original frame was discovered to have a crack in the seat stay on the drive side. I opened a claim with velobuild and they shipped a replacement which I got about a month later (they had to make me one since my size is XXL).
During that time I looked into fixing the frame like others have done. Ended up following through with fixing it and kept riding it while I waited for a replacement. Once replacement frame was here I decided to buy the extra goodies sans handlebar to have a second bike. Those items have arrived and I will be slowly building up a second bike through the fall. Pictures below will include the carbon repair job I performed and my replacement frame getting painted.
Original frame repair
(https://i.imgur.com/RgEadVc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OWtqfYb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/b2wC50d.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GmCBoZO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/b3PeiYO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SUmvm8Z.jpg)
Replacement frame paint job
(https://i.imgur.com/WFi7CzM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fZmOOUm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/E27QQ7G.jpg)
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Big update time.
My original frame was discovered to have a crack in the seat stay on the drive side. I opened a claim with velobuild and they shipped a replacement which I got about a month later (they had to make me one since my size is XXL).
During that time I looked into fixing the frame like others have done. Ended up following through with fixing it and kept riding it while I waited for a replacement. Once replacement frame was here I decided to buy the extra goodies sans handlebar to have a second bike. Those items have arrived and I will be slowly building up a second bike through the fall. Pictures below will include the carbon repair job I performed and my replacement frame getting painted.
Original frame repair
(https://i.imgur.com/RgEadVc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OWtqfYb.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/b2wC50d.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GmCBoZO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/b3PeiYO.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/SUmvm8Z.jpg)
Replacement frame paint job
(https://i.imgur.com/WFi7CzM.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/fZmOOUm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/E27QQ7G.jpg)
This is some next level of DIY
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Moar pictures of final frame. I added gloss black vinyl around the paint transition to make them less ugly.
Also OEM Pinarello headset fits the bike perfectly Part#: STHSBF12KITAM (F12 & F)
(https://i.imgur.com/sJiCdHr.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ObG2ZiA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/euyn8Kg.jpg)
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hello all just an update. frame is riding great. no issues. had to change out my bars 3 times( 1 time was my fought for locktit grub screws `other 2 times was to dial on the fit). so far 2300 road mils and 330 mile on a wahoo kicker snap
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1000km Update!
Still in love with this frame. Stiff, rides like a dream and it fits my body type very well (loong arms) . Brake misalignment issue is still only 99% fixed, as I still have some disc rubbing when I go out of the saddle. Still hoping this will eventually fade when the brake pads bed in more, but I might have to do some more effort into re-centering again.
However, I don't have any issues with the frame. No cracks, no creaking, no rattling. Nothing!
is that a bell on your computer mount?
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hey together,
i have my r-218 frame now for arround 1 year and just hit 10000 km with it. No issues so far.
But I want to go for a narrower bar with arround 36 cm width. So far I am thinking about the Farsports F1 Integrated handlebar, Farsports is offering a special top cap to use it with dogma f12/f. https://www.farsports.com/products/f1-handlebar-spacer
Are there any other alternatives? Cheaper maybe? :D
thanks
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I want to 3d print stem spacers. is there any real advantage to them being 2 piece? or would one piece be ok? also I am going to do a version with an arm and a mount for a computer.
I am all torso and need a taller stem. for a more relaxed position.
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I want to 3d print stem spacers. is there any real advantage to them being 2 piece? or would one piece be ok? also I am going to do a version with an arm and a mount for a computer.
I am all torso and need a taller stem. for a more relaxed position.
The Pinarello stuff is likely two piece to aid in adjusting stack without having to undo everything with the integrated handlebars.
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ok which bolts should I be greasing up? Because greasing up changes the torque. but some of the screws are hard to get in like the handlebar to stem clamp?
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ok which bolts should I be greasing up? Because greasing up changes the torque. but some of the screws are hard to get in like the handlebar to stem clamp?
I have a PDF a few pages back with torque specs and grease.
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I have a PDF a few pages back with torque specs and grease.
it calls for thread locker but the bolts are all ready so tight. like I was re-cutting the threads. at least in the handle bar stem clamp... also I cant seem to find the use for the aluminum tube halfs. they sliver al pieces and like a tube cut in half and about 50mm or 2 in long.
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Welp got my replacement bike built up. Still using Force AXS but this time in the shiny new D2 colors.
(https://i.imgur.com/NMLhOOS.jpg)
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Has anyone by any chance had to replace their headset bearings on the VB-R218? Or did you maybe use a different one from the one that VB supply?
Reason I’m asking is I need to replace my lower headset bearing. A few wet rides and it seems that water ingress made it corrode.
Now I know this is an IS52/40 headset. But what shape does the bearing seat in the VB-R218 frame have? The original Dogma F uses bearings with 45/45degrees where most other frames are using 36/45degree bearings. Is the difference only the angle on the inside and it doesn’t matter as long as you’re using the crown race that comes with the bearing? I’m lost. I wanna order the replacement bearing before I tear the bike apart. But I dunno which one.
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Finally got my bike built with ltwoo erx groupset, 105 crankset, ec90 saddle and a gold YBN chain.
Rides amazing, and it's super quick. I really should've gotten it done earlier but life got in the way.
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Has anyone by any chance had to replace their headset bearings on the VB-R218? Or did you maybe use a different one from the one that VB supply?
Reason I’m asking is I need to replace my lower headset bearing. A few wet rides and it seems that water ingress made it corrode.
Now I know this is an IS52/40 headset. But what shape does the bearing seat in the VB-R218 frame have? The original Dogma F uses bearings with 45/45degrees where most other frames are using 36/45degree bearings. Is the difference only the angle on the inside and it doesn’t matter as long as you’re using the crown race that comes with the bearing? I’m lost. I wanna order the replacement bearing before I tear the bike apart. But I dunno which one.
I asked Chris. It's an IS 52/40 with 45° bearing interface in the frame. The bearing is 7mm tall. Good to know because there's also headset bearings with 8mm height. I got a Cane Creek 10 Series lower headset bearing. Those are durable enough and pretty cheap. I'm using one in my gravel bike which lasts ages already. Also, they come with a glass fiber plastic crown race which is easy to put on. I'll take that opportunity and finally cut my fork down enough to lose that spacer I still got sitting on my stem. Luckily, on the rim brake frame I can just pull the fork out. I just have to loosen the cable clamp bolt on the front brake.
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Finally got my bike built with ltwoo erx groupset, 105 crankset, ec90 saddle and a gold YBN chain.
Rides amazing, and it's super quick. I really should've gotten it done earlier but life got in the way.
Nice! The gold chain and the gold labelling on the erx gruppo go rather well together. Also, I'm a fan of the previous generation Shimano cranks aesthetically. I like the lines and the combination of gloss black and matte on the 105 crank. Have fun!
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Nice! The gold chain and the gold labelling on the erx gruppo go rather well together. Also, I'm a fan of the previous generation Shimano cranks aesthetically. I like the lines and the combination of gloss black and matte on the 105 crank. Have fun!
Thanks! I'm surprised how well it came out with the gold hcain and erx group. I don't even know how the new shimano cranks look, originally I was going to go with 105 rim groupset with juin-tech pistons instead of erx but I cannibalized that groupset to fix my other bikes and was left with only the crankset left. Weighs about 8.9kg including the assioma duo-shi pedals, I think it would be 8.6kg without them. Similar to my old Motobecane carbon road bike.
I asked Chris. It's an IS 52/40 with 45° bearing interface in the frame. The bearing is 7mm tall. Good to know because there's also headset bearings with 8mm height. I got a Cane Creek 10 Series lower headset bearing. Those are durable enough and pretty cheap. I'm using one in my gravel bike which lasts ages already. Also, they come with a glass fiber plastic crown race which is easy to put on. I'll take that opportunity and finally cut my fork down enough to lose that spacer I still got sitting on my stem. Luckily, on the rim brake frame I can just pull the fork out. I just have to loosen the cable clamp bolt on the front brake.
I'm glad you figured it out, you're the resident expert of this frame, if you couldn't do it no one can!
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Has anyone by any chance had to replace their headset bearings on the VB-R218? Or did you maybe use a different one from the one that VB supply?
Reason I’m asking is I need to replace my lower headset bearing. A few wet rides and it seems that water ingress made it corrode.
Now I know this is an IS52/40 headset. But what shape does the bearing seat in the VB-R218 frame have? The original Dogma F uses bearings with 45/45degrees where most other frames are using 36/45degree bearings. Is the difference only the angle on the inside and it doesn’t matter as long as you’re using the crown race that comes with the bearing? I’m lost. I wanna order the replacement bearing before I tear the bike apart. But I dunno which one.
I bought an OEM pinarello headset for my replacement frame.
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Thanks! I'm surprised how well it came out with the gold hcain and erx group. I don't even know how the new shimano cranks look, originally I was going to go with 105 rim groupset with juin-tech pistons instead of erx but I cannibalized that groupset to fix my other bikes and was left with only the crankset left. Weighs about 8.9kg including the assioma duo-shi pedals, I think it would be 8.6kg without them. Similar to my old Motobecane carbon road bike.
I'm glad you figured it out, you're the resident expert of this frame, if you couldn't do it no one can!
I'm curious, looking at your frame I'd presume it'd be a sub 8kg bike maybe sub 7.5kg. Even with power meter pedals, I would think going with ERX would offset a bit of the weight. The 105 R7000 isn't that heavy either. Is it your 60mm deep dish Elite Wheels and/or cassette that's adding weight?
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The frame and fork are both not particularly light, I think. My size XXL/54 weighs 1250g painted. Both forks I had weighed north of 450g. So that’s already heavier than most. The cheaper Elite Wheels models are easily 1600-1700g in depths of 50mm or more.
I only got mine to 7.8kg all included because of the groupset’s and crank’s low weight. The Sroad cassette saves another 120g.
My DIY custom wheels are around 1450g in a 60mm depth.
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I'm curious, looking at your frame I'd presume it'd be a sub 8kg bike maybe sub 7.5kg. Even with power meter pedals, I would think going with ERX would offset a bit of the weight. The 105 R7000 isn't that heavy either. Is it your 60mm deep dish Elite Wheels and/or cassette that's adding weight?
I think even the real pinarello is a pretty weighty bike. I definitely didn't go the weight weenie route, the 60mm Elitewheels SLT were about 1750g, cassette is a Shimano Ultegra 11-32. I'm using a cheap set of IIIpro disc brakes, not sure if they're lighter than normal disc brakes. Also, ERX groupset is quite heavy compared to a mechanical groupset too.
Quick question about the saddle bolts, how do you tighten a saddle without a cutout in the middle? I realized that one of the bolt faces upwards, and if there's no cut out in the saddle, I have no idea how to tighten it.
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I think even the real pinarello is a pretty weighty bike. I definitely didn't go the weight weenie route, the 60mm Elitewheels SLT were about 1750g, cassette is a Shimano Ultegra 11-32. I'm using a cheap set of IIIpro disc brakes, not sure if they're lighter than normal disc brakes. Also, ERX groupset is quite heavy compared to a mechanical groupset too.
Quick question about the saddle bolts, how do you tighten a saddle without a cutout in the middle? I realized that one of the bolt faces upwards, and if there's no cut out in the saddle, I have no idea how to tighten it.
Got it. Still a nice build you have there!
Regarding the front screw saddle adjustment, you're going to have to remove the saddle, guesstimate your angle tilt and then adjust the screw prior to installing the saddle. Unless you have a center cutout saddle, there's not much else you can do to adjust it with the saddle attached.
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Quick question about the saddle bolts, how do you tighten a saddle without a cutout in the middle? I realized that one of the bolt faces upwards, and if there's no cut out in the saddle, I have no idea how to tighten it.
You could also check if there is enough space so you could use a trimmed down/shortened allen key.
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I think even the real pinarello is a pretty weighty bike.
They all were until the Dogma F, I think. Which is why Team Sky bikes were usually heavier than 7kg despite being rim brake bikes with tubs. And that’s also why Pinarello had to build an extralight version of the F8 and F10 frame for Froomey. The Dogma F then got considerably lighter and the real thing should easily have a frame weight of around 800g compared to this VB frame at 1200g. But I mean it better be lightweight at 6k for a frameset.
So yeah. If you care about weight, this VB frame is probably not for you.
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I replaced the bottom headset bearing. To my pleasant surprise it wasn't actually worn out. It was just the dirt and grime that got in there that produced noise when turning the bars. I could have just cleaned it. Since I had the new Cane Creek bearing and crown race lying around I figured I might as well put that in and keep the original bearing as a spare. I took the opportunity to cut down the steerer a bit more and take off the single spacer I still had on top of the stem.
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The no spacer look is nice, now I want to do it too...
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Alright, I am building the frame that I have received under warranty because the first one was showing cracks between to he 2 holes on the seat stay.
Now I have just tightened the same bolt (making sure not to go above 3.5 nm). See picture. I see similar hairline "cracks" around the hole.
Do you guys have the same thing? It's really small, but still I don't believe I should have those "cracks". Unless the paint (basic black matte) is really bad quality.
For now, the indications don't seem to transfer into the carbon layup. But if you guys tell me that some of you have the same thing, I would know it really is the paint ain't no risk for those indications to become cracks in carbon.
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Loosen the bolts and tighten them back up and see if you can make out any movement in the cracks. I don’t see any of these on my frame.
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I am 188 cm and 97 kg, is XXL frame to small for me?
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I am 188 cm and 97 kg, is XXL frame to small for me?
185CM and it fits me great with a 100mm stem. Just size the stem/bar for what you need.
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I am 190cm with long arms and I like the fit with a 120mm stem and the cockpit slammed onto the 20mm headset cover. The reach is on the shorter side for me but it rides nicely. There’s a lot of toe overlap on this frame for me because of the short wheelbase. Not a problem when you’re riding but you need to be aware of it when manoeuvring at low speeds.
Fit is very personal and your height alone really isn’t enough information to help you. Am XXL frame should get you in the ballpark. What stem length you need. If the seatpost setback works for you. If the geometry is for you or not. That’s impossible to tell without any further reference.
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thanks, i gone need more help when i start ordering things for bike, maybe i go with sensah 1x12 groupset
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Just pulled the trigger on this one
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Alright, I am building the frame that I have received under warranty because the first one was showing cracks between to he 2 holes on the seat stay.
Now I have just tightened the same bolt (making sure not to go above 3.5 nm). See picture. I see similar hairline "cracks" around the hole.
Do you guys have the same thing? It's really small, but still I don't believe I should have those "cracks". Unless the paint (basic black matte) is really bad quality.
For now, the indications don't seem to transfer into the carbon layup. But if you guys tell me that some of you have the same thing, I would know it really is the paint ain't no risk for those indications to become cracks in carbon.
Looks like warranty number 2 to me.
It staggers me that people are still buying these (or really anything from Velobuild) given the number of cracked 218s in the last year. But then I suppose people are buying Dogmas still for 10x the price when they've had a plague of similar cracks.
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I'm not saying this frame is without issues. But if every little problem with brand name frames would be as public and as much discussed in detail as the Chiner frames are on this forum, you'd probably say the same thing about those.
Also, it is worth noting that from what I can tell, VB has respected the warranty for this frame in every single case that has been discussed here.
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By the way, they are stopping the sell of this model.
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By the way, they are stopping the sell of this model.
Due to legal reasons or warranty/quality reasons?
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I have sent Chris the picture. He said he was checking and will reply. At this point, I would prefer that they send another model. After waiting months to rebuild the bike with warranty frame, the feeling was not great when I saw the cracks again on a new frame. I will let you know what is the outcome of warranty discussion.
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Positive discussion for now with Chris. He agreed to send another model, but I have to pay to compensate for fork, bar and seat post. That is fair.
I would go with the 177, but I am tempted by the 268. It seems to be almost as light as the 177.It seems that the 177 reputation is pretty good. Do you guys think I should jump with the 268 or stay conservative with the 177?
Edit: I just placed the order for the 268.
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Hello!
I’m a new member here. Last October, I bought a 218 frame and spent the winter season indoors using it with my Kickr Core. Recently, I’ve noticed some cracks around the screw seatposts, and it seems like other members have experienced this issue too.
Have any of you dealt with these cracks yourselves? How was the customer service in addressing this specific issue?
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That is not good. I've bought 4 frames from Chris but not that one. Strange clamping system, especially 4nm. Did you use a torque wrench?
I'd email him and see what he says. AFAIK, frames that are cracked at the seat post are written off. Can it be just a paint thing? If you look inside the tube what do you see? Can you film what happens when you sit on the frame? Paint crack, fine, frame crack, landfill?
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This is not the first frame with cracks in a seat tube in that specific area and I cannot fathom why these cracks even appear there in the first place as the bolts are not tightened to the frame itself. The holes are there just to access the bolts and all the force from tightening them should act on the seatpost so if anything the seatpost should crack and not the seat tube.
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Oh wow these pictures don't seem good. Fingers crossed to everyone who has the cracks, that velobuild resolves this. I'm still spared by this problem, but given that my seatpost is quite far extended I'm afraid it could happen too.
However I also cannot understand why they appear. The gub screws only force the two metal bits apart, so the load should me evenly distributed in the area, and not only on the threads.
Regarding why they stop selling the 218.. I'm not surprised. Does anyone remember how quickly gcperformance took his video offline after he posted it? I'm sure pinarello is not very amused about this frame being around.
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The seatpost clamping is just like the original Pinarello. But I got serious doubts in this construction. The bolts spread 2 metal parts behind the seatpost, so they press it against the front of the seattube. Any force on the saddle will work against that. So some force is held by the rather thin back of the seattube at those bolts. In the end most force is held by the lower part of the seattube where the seatpost will sit rather tightly and tilt to take the force. But not all of it if the seatpost shall be fixed forward. I don't know, it could be an issue of manyfactoring tolarances?
Anyway: I got cracks too and Chris send me a replacement frame. It took 3 month though. The good news is: I didn't bother to build the new frame yet. I'm running cracks worse than that for 5000km now and it's still working and holding the seatpost fine...
I would recommend taking measures agains seatpost slipping though so one can use less force on the clamping. I used some textile tape (after degreasing the seatpost with isopropanol) at the bottom-front of the seatpost (where it doesn't reach full width yet) and some at the back right in the clamping area. Additionally I made generous use of carbon paste. It may be needed to tilt the seatpost a few degrees forward when inserting it, but once in position it will almost hold by itself. It didn't even slide a mm since I did that.
Other than that I still love that bike. It's running great.
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Regarding why they stop selling the 218.. I'm not surprised.
You are a second one to say here they are stop selling this model. May I ask what do you base this claim on? In fact, you can still order the frame on their website to this day.
Anyway: I got cracks too and Chris send me a replacement frame.
May I ask where did you get the cracks?
I would recommend taking measures agains seatpost slipping though so one can use less force on the clamping.
Also please can you say what torque did you use after taking these measures? It would be helpful as I am currently in the process of building a bike on this frame.
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May I ask where did you get the cracks?
Also please can you say what torque did you use after taking these measures? It would be helpful as I am currently in the process of building a bike on this frame.
Mine where right between the bolts.
I probably used 4nm, but I'm not sure. I may have been lazy.
If you're still building, don't even try fixing the seatpost by grease and bolts. Use some helpers like I described, try to get away with less than 4nm and you should be fine. I will do it that way when I build the replacement frame.
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I probably used 4nm, but I'm not sure. I may have been lazy.
Thanks for answer but... wow, that's kinda heavy torque. I was expecting the measures would allow you to go much lower. It's the maximum allowed torque for the real Dogma F. Someone here did use less (3,5 Nm) and still got the cracks...
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The frame is on closeout sale. You can only order leftover stock. The disc frames are only available in size S. I know, because I asked. I like my rim brake 218 so much that I thought about building a disc version as well. My first rim brake frame cracked as well. I repaired it. It was an easy fix with a bit of carbon cloth and resin. But I still built up my replacement frame and retired the first one. It's now hanging on the wall. The replacement frame is fine after more than 6.500 km. I used 4nm on the grub screws. Also, I use a bit of textile tape on the seatpost usually to make it less slippery.
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I didn't try yet how low I could go. I just assembled it and holds since.
Look, no need to panic. It's a 550 € china frame. It's about fun. And velobuild respect their warranty actually. Do some measures, stay easy with the torque and chances are good you'll be fine.
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The frame is on closeout sale. You can only order leftover stock. The disc frames are only available in size S. I know, because I asked. I like my rim brake 218 so much that I thought about building a disc version as well.
That's kind of an irony considering you already got the disc version first instead by their mistake and now you can't build a disc version because the only left are too small for you. :D
Velobuild respect their warranty actually.
I know they do but I am still a bit afraid as people say they are stop making this frame and what if I ever need a replacement...
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I'm testing this, you guys might be interested in that one if VB stops selling the 218. The clamping system is normal. The geometry is virtually the same as the Grevil, so it's a gravel bike, but very roady. I havent ridden it much, but it's been great fun.
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That's kind of an irony considering you already got the disc version first instead by their mistake and now you can't build a disc version because the only left are too small for you. :D
Yeah, that's alright with me I guess. The idea was to build this up as an homage to one of the last great rim brake bikes without braking the bank. And I'm happy that I did it. It's still the fastest bike I got, despite having built up an aero disc bike in the meantime.
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Anyway, my conclusion from this is (and it's pure speculation of course) that the cracks in seat tube actually may have nothing to do with the torque of the grub screws there (since they are not tigtened to the frame itself) and rather are a result of a design flaw when maybe forces that are caused by a rider sitting and riding on a bike are transferred to that area and said area is simply not strong enough.
I am also sad they are stop making this model after they actually listened to some of the suggestions made from customers and thus improving the overall quality. For instance my frame came with all the bolts already screwed inside the frame or handlebar which negates two possible issues - bolts being lost during packaging or transportation and wrong/damaged threads.
Or they changed design of BB area where the BB shell is finally one piece of metal so no more BB facing issues. The screw there is also shorter and so even DUB BB fits.
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That is not good. I've bought 4 frames from Chris but not that one. Strange clamping system, especially 4nm. Did you use a torque wrench?
I'd email him and see what he says. AFAIK, frames that are cracked at the seat post are written off. Can it be just a paint thing? If you look inside the tube what do you see? Can you film what happens when you sit on the frame? Paint crack, fine, frame crack, landfill?
So I check inside the seat post and yeah they were two small cracks. I sent those pictures to Chris and we manage to get a new replacement frame. I'll put the current frame on my Kick Core and just use it for indoor training, I guess.
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So I check inside the seat post and yeah they were two small cracks. I sent those pictures to Chris and we manage to get a new replacement frame. I'll put the current frame on my Kick Core and just use it for indoor training, I guess.
Good outcome!
I guess the morale of the story is, stay away from non standard features. A round seat post is best. A D-shaped seatpost with a "standard" clamp, we've seen on dozen of bikes. But the clamping system on this one just doesn't make sense.
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I'm testing this, you guys might be interested in that one if VB stops selling the 218. The clamping system is normal. The geometry is virtually the same as the Grevil, so it's a gravel bike, but very roady. I havent ridden it much, but it's been great fun.
So where can I buy this?
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Good outcome!
I guess the morale of the story is, stay away from non standard features. A round seat post is best. A D-shaped seatpost with a "standard" clamp, we've seen on dozen of bikes. But the clamping system on this one just doesn't make sense.
They chose this clamping arrangement because the top tube/seat tube junction is simply not wide enough to put a clamping wedge in there, I think. At least not one of the wedges you typically find on other frames. And I don't think the seatpost clamping expander is inherently a bad design. It actually works quite well and it spreads the load on the seatpost on a reasonably big area. But obviously you have to build the frame durable enough to withstand the load. And also, the 218 is so narrow at the seatpost/seattube that it flexes from side to side. It doesn't bother me and it is something that reviewers have also lamented about the actual Dogma F. And I think this might put additional stress on this area.
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They chose this clamping arrangement because the top tube/seat tube junction is simply not wide enough to put a clamping wedge in there, I think. At least not one of the wedges you typically find on other frames. And I don't think the seatpost clamping expander is inherently a bad design. It actually works quite well and it spreads the load on the seatpost on a reasonably big area. But obviously you have to build the frame durable enough to withstand the load. And also, the 218 is so narrow at the seatpost/seattube that it flexes from side to side. It doesn't bother me and it is something that reviewers have also lamented about the actual Dogma F. And I think this might put additional stress on this area.
Curious if those with setback seat post are having this problem more so than folks with zero setback posts. I have 0 setback on both of my 218s and have no problems.
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Frame Update 2024
Figured I'd keep telling the story of my 218s
After painting my replacement frame I decided I wanted to paint my repaired frame this season. I sanded down the paint where I repaired prevously to check up on the repair and redo some of the body work so it would have a nicer finish once painted.
Purple is my favorite color. I found this one on the Aston Martin catalog called Digital Violet.Enjoy the pics
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I'm testing this, you guys might be interested in that one if VB stops selling the 218. The clamping system is normal. The geometry is virtually the same as the Grevil, so it's a gravel bike, but very roady. I havent ridden it much, but it's been great fun.
What frame is this?
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Hi everyone,
I have received some direct messages over my bike computer setup on the VB218, because I have mounted a bell below it. If anyone is interested, here are some infos about it:
My bell mount is actually a self-made contraption, that consists of three things:
- a standard bell, that you would normally mount to a round handlebar
- the standard computer mount that came with the velobuild 218 frame
- a 3d printed part, that allows me to mount the bell
The 3d file can be downloaded here: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6578675 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6578675)
This setup has worked fine, but it was a bit heavy. A few weeks ago I hit a pothole and the computer mount broke, so I ordered the off the shelf variant for a pinarello. It's made from the brand "close the gap" and is currently very popular in germany (probably because germans like rules and there is a rule that you must have a bell on your bike)
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This setup has worked fine, but it was a bit heavy. A few weeks ago I hit a pothole and the computer mount broke, so I ordered the off the shelf variant for a pinarello. It's made from the brand "close the gap" and is currently very popular in germany (probably because germans like rules and there is a rule that you must have a bell on your bike)
Thanks. "Close the gap" looks like a very solid and elegant solution but I am not sure if I want to pay 60 euros for a Garmin mount with bell. You can find cheap chinese copies on Aliexpress (like five times cheaper) but sadly I only found versions for either standard aero bars or normal round bars. I cannot find a chinese version for Most iTalon bars.
Btw does the bell of the "Close the gap" sound good and loud enough? Are you satisfied with it? Did you have any problems mounting it on this frame bars since they are just a copy of the Most original?
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Btw does the bell of the "Close the gap" sound good and loud enough? I mean is it worth the price? Are you satisfied with it? Also is the "uni light adapter" part of the package or you have to buy it separately?
No idea, its still in transit ;D I'll let you know once I receive it
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So where can I buy this?
Email petercycles@foxmail.com. Peter is a member on the forum, he sent me the frame for review. I haven't ridden it much at all but it's been super nice so far.
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What frame is this?
To call a cat a cat, it's a clone of the latest Grevil. You can email petercycles@foxmail.com, he sent me the frame for review.
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Thanks. "Close the gap" looks like a very solid and elegant solution but I am not sure if I want to pay 60 euros for a Garmin mount with bell. You can find cheap chinese copies on Aliexpress (like five times cheaper) but sadly I only found versions for either standard aero bars or normal round bars. I cannot find a chinese version for Most iTalon bars.
Btw does the bell of the "Close the gap" sound good and loud enough? Are you satisfied with it? Did you have any problems mounting it on this frame bars since they are just a copy of the Most original?
I have two Pinarello version of the close the gap computer mount and bell. Volume is great, I use it every ride.
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To call a cat a cat, it's a clone of the latest Grevil. You can email petercycles@foxmail.com, he sent me the frame for review.
Thanks, I've reached out.
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Thanks. "Close the gap" looks like a very solid and elegant solution but I am not sure if I want to pay 60 euros for a Garmin mount with bell. You can find cheap chinese copies on Aliexpress (like five times cheaper) but sadly I only found versions for either standard aero bars or normal round bars. I cannot find a chinese version for Most iTalon bars.
Btw does the bell of the "Close the gap" sound good and loud enough? Are you satisfied with it? Did you have any problems mounting it on this frame bars since they are just a copy of the Most original?
I had the aliexpress aero version. Didn't last more than few rides until it broke. Bought the Close the gap version. Worth every penny. Solid build quality and the bell is easier to use and better.
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Got some new shoes for the purple bike. I asked the seller to ship without PCW branding but these are what showed up. I will likely remove the decals eventually.
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Thanks, I've reached out.
In case you haven't seen, Peter has since posted a new thread for the frame on the forum. T47 BB & 50mm tyre clearance.
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Bike almost finished, but I have issues with a headset play. Any recommendations on what I should do to fix this, as I am not really familiar with headset shenanigans. Some background:
- I've already replaced the original short compression plug with an extra long version (80 mm, not that I expected it will help, I did it mostly for other reasons).
- Also already tightened the plug to max recommended torque for this frame (6 Nm). The integrated handlebar with carbon paste applied tightened with the grub screws to around 3,5 Nm fits firmly already but I guess that's not relevant for a headset play issue?
- The cap on top of the stem I tightened with low torque (around 2,5 Nm) as I believe that's just for the cap to not move and it's not important for the headset itself or am I wrong? (The manual for Dogma says to preload to 2 Nm and then 6 Nm max, but I seriously don't understand why, as the cap is installed as a last part to just cover the stem, so why even preload it? I think the expander plug has to be preloaded before installing the stem or am I wrong again?
- My uneducated guess is the headset play may have something to do with the fact the bottom bearing didn't fit the headtube firmly and there is some play because the headtube seems to be a little wider than it should at the lower part. The upper bearing fits firmly. Top and bottom bearings on this frame are interchangeable and when I swapped them then again bottom bearing is loose and top fits firmly. This means that bearings should be both fine and correct diameter.
- To make the bottom bearing fit firmly too I wrapped it with electrical tape to increase its diameter slightly. This helped with the play during installation but maybe it's not enough after it. Again, I don't really understand how this thing even holds together and why the fork doesn't fall down from the frame...
So what do you guys think? Should I apply glue on the outer side of the bottom bearing like Loctite 638 or should I do something completely different first? And is it safe to ride with a headset play, at least for some shorter test ride or should I resist the temptation to try my new bike?
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we should have a thread on headset play. there are YT videos that explain the mechanics of it. I think you have to tighten the top cap, because that's what compresses everything. basically, the top cap pulls the plug up (which is why you need space between the steerer & the top cap, that's the space that gets compressed).
When $hit's tight, your plug can slide up the steerer before there's enough system compression, so keep an eye for that if you have play.
I think people sometimes use plumber's tape (teflon) for loose bearings, electrical tape sounds ghettoer / maybe too flexy?
Btw, if your bearing really is swimming in its hole, then post a video, you may get a new frame. Some play might be acceptable, but if they botched it, they botched it.
It's safe to try the bike with a little play. Don't over do it, dont take it offroad, dont go down a mountain pass, be sensible.
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You might try to add a spacer to check if the fork was not cut too long. It happened to me twice.
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Just tightening the top cap to max torque 6 Nm didn't help either.
You might try to add a spacer to check if the fork was not cut too long. It happened to me twice.
I don't think my fork was cut too long but just to be sure, how big space should be between bottom of the cap and top of the plug? And should these two touch after fully tightening the top cap?
Also I just broke both of the caps I have. The first one was an original from Velobuild - some aluminium shit that broke in two parts before even applying 6 Nm with the original socket head cap screw in left. The right one I got with the additional spacers I bought made from carbon developed cracks and is likely not safe to use anymore. It has a hole for a countersunk head screw I had to buy separately. Bought a titanium one. Didn't fit the cap precisely which may be a reason why cracks occurred when applying 6 Nm torque. Seems like I will need a third one. Any recommendations for a good Aliexpress one? The caps are starting to become consumables and I am starting to become frustrated...
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Already ordered 2 more caps with screws they declare to fit 100%. Let's see...
I think people sometimes use plumber's tape (teflon) for loose bearings, electrical tape sounds ghettoer / maybe too flexy?
Btw, if your bearing really is swimming in its hole, then post a video, you may get a new frame. Some play might be acceptable, but if they botched it, they botched it.
It's safe to try the bike with a little play. Don't over do it, dont take it offroad, dont go down a mountain pass, be sensible.
I wouldn't say the bearing was swimming but without the tape it was loose enough to drop from the frame in Earth's gravitational field... The play was corrected by just one layer of that very thin electrical tape...
Already ordered PTFE tape but to apply it I will need to remove the fork from the frame, thus disconnecting the hydraulic hose from the left lever and possibly need to buy a new olive. I use SRAM brakes and levers.
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- The cap on top of the stem I tightened with low torque (around 2,5 Nm) as I believe that's just for the cap to not move and it's not important for the headset itself or am I wrong? (The manual for Dogma says to preload to 2 Nm and then 6 Nm max, but I seriously don't understand why, as the cap is installed as a last part to just cover the stem, so why even preload it? I think the expander plug has to be preloaded before installing the stem or am I wrong again?
Is there enough of a gap with your steerer tube and top cap? There needs to be a gap so everything can squeeze together. Something akin the my attached image.
I am using a Pinarello compression plug and had to sand the VB top cap to allow enough space for everything to compress. I also swapped both bikes over to OEM Pinarello top caps as they fit the handlebars better looks-wise.
The order of install should be
1. Torque compression plug to required nM
2. Install fork to frame
3. Spacers etc.
4. Handlebars
5. Tighten top cap FIRST to compress everything on itself
6. Set handlebars straight then tighten grub screws
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Is there enough of a gap with your steerer tube and top cap? There needs to be a gap so everything can squeeze together. Something akin the my attached image.
I am using a Pinarello compression plug and had to sand the VB top cap to allow enough space for everything to compress.
Your image is not very helpful as it's a star nut inside an aluminium steerer. Carbon steerers use expansion plugs.
I don't really know how big the gap should be. Dogma manual says to cut the steerer 5 mm below the top of the stem, which I did and it looks like in the image.
VB top cap is shit. Not only is it made of fragile aluminium that breaks easily, it's also very thick - double the size of a carbon cap I got with additional spacers I bought. No wonder you had to sand it down if you didn't want to cut the steerer so low that the top grub screw would push into air instead of into the steerer.
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Your image is not very helpful as it's a star nut inside an aluminium steerer. Carbon steerers use expansion plugs.
I don't really know how big the gap should be. Dogma manual says to cut the steerer 5 mm below the top of the stem, which I did and it looks like in the image.
VB top cap is shit. Not only is it made of fragile aluminium that breaks easily, it's also very thick - double the size of a carbon cap I got with additional spacers I bought. No wonder you had to sand it down if you didn't want to cut the steerer so low that the top grub screw would push into air instead of into the steerer.
lol it was meant to simply show a gap between the top of the stem (handlebars in the 218 case) and the steerer tube.
Yep I would sand down the crap top cap or run the carbon one. Did you try assembling per my steps?
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You probably have spare split spacers lying around, right? Use one the to stack your stem a tad higher and tighten everything down and see if the play is gone. If yes, then your fork steerer still is a tad too long. If not, then something else is going on.
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I leave 4mm of distance between the top of the expander and the top cap for the compression of the headset. Watch this video YT to adjust your headset : "BBInfinite TECH TIP: Adjust a Headset Like a Boss"
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lol it was meant to simply show a gap between the top of the stem (handlebars in the 218 case) and the steerer tube.
Yep I would sand down the crap top cap or run the carbon one. Did you try assembling per my steps?
I will try the advice of increasing the gap by one 5mm spacer and see how it goes. Also I can't really follow your steps exactly as I would need to disconnect the front hydraulic hose to remove the fork from the headtube but I guess it's fine installing and fully tightening the plug after fork and spacers are already installed.
But I will definitely try to tighten the top cap before clamping the stem although I guess it doesn't really matter. I will also try to apply some carbon paste on the plug to make sure that thing doesn't move up inside of the steerer when tightening the top cap.
EDIT: OK I tried to add the spacer and it indeed helped. No more headset play. Allright, time to shorten the steerer. Wanted to shorten it anyway to remove all the spacers. I was too much conservative with them. I noticed with 3,5 cm spacers my handlebar is almost 5 cm higher than my current bike. Without them it will also look much better. Thanks everyone for help, especially those that told me my steerer might be too long.
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But I will definitely try to tighten the top cap before clamping the stem although I guess it doesn't really matter.
Just to clarify: Of course it makes a difference. Tightening down the top cap does nothing if you’ve already clamped your stem to the steerer. The top cap/expander assembly is there to press the stem down whilst pulling the fork up and therefore put preload on the upper and lower headset bearing. If the stem can’t move cuz it’s clamped to the steerer, you won’t get any preload on the headset. And sure, if you then go on and tighten down the top cap more and more, it might even break. Though in almost twenty years of biking I have never managed to kill a top cap like that. You might have had particularly bad quality ones.
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Just to clarify: Of course it makes a difference. Tightening down the top cap does nothing if you’ve already clamped your stem to the steerer. The top cap/expander assembly is there to press the stem down whilst pulling the fork up and therefore put preload on the upper and lower headset bearing. If the stem can’t move cuz it’s clamped to the steerer, you won’t get any preload on the headset. And sure, if you then go on and tighten down the top cap more and more, it might even break. Though in almost twenty years of biking I have never managed to kill a top cap like that. You might have had particularly bad quality ones.
As I said I was not into headset shenanigans but thanks to kind people like you explaining things I think I finally understand it and it makes sense now.
Both caps were kind of shit, the VB one broke before even applying 6 Nm, the carbon one withstood that force but developed cracks probably because the countersunk head screw didn't fit the cap really well.
I now ordered caps together with screws declared to fit 100 % so I should be good now.
Thanks again everybody for help.
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As I said I was not into headset shenanigans but thanks to kind people like you explaining things I think I finally understand it and it makes sense now.
Both caps were kind of shit, the VB one broke before even applying 6 Nm, the carbon one withstood that force but developed cracks probably because the countersunk head screw didn't fit the cap really well.
I now ordered caps together with screws declared to fit 100 % so I should be good now.
Thanks again everybody for help.
Right on. Share some pics when its complete.
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Since this thread is back from the dead, I thought I might as well give an update. More than 8000k done. No issues. Still the first headset with no signs of wear which is a pleasant surprise. I wasn’t too confident in those bearings. This is the bike with the race wheels on: 60mm deep/1300g with 28mm tubulars. These feel soo nice when accelerating and the cornering feel is insane. I’m still in love with the handling of this frame and the super quick steering response.
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Super nice rig. Looks nicer than some of the girls I've had in my bed.
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Are we doing update posts? 3000k update from me! Still working like a charm. I have put some "skateboard" grip tape on the seatpost wedge, as it wanted to reduce the torque on these bolts after what I've seen in this thread. Seatpost now holds with 2nm on the bolts.
And I can confirm you can actually ride TT on this, if you are brave enough and have a 3d printer, lol. A bit sketchy, but I wanted to try out the TT position for a bit before I pull the trigger on a new frame
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Since this thread is back from the dead, I thought I might as well give an update. More than 8000k done. No issues. Still the first headset with no signs of wear which is a pleasant surprise. I wasn’t too confident in those bearings. This is the bike with the race wheels on: 60mm deep/1300g with 28mm tubulars. These feel soo nice when accelerating and the cornering feel is insane. I’m still in love with the handling of this frame and the super quick steering response.
These bikes can RAIL corners. The set of 30c I have on my blue bike inflated to 32mm. I can lean the bike waaaaay too far into turns. Its amazing.
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Are we doing update posts? 3000k update from me! Still working like a charm. I have put some "skateboard" grip tape on the seatpost wedge, as it wanted to reduce the torque on these bolts after what I've seen in this thread. Seatpost now holds with 2nm on the bolts.
And I can confirm you can actually ride TT on this, if you are brave enough and have a 3d printer, lol. A bit sketchy, but I wanted to try out the TT position for a bit before I pull the trigger on a new frame
I've been contemplating getting these to try on 218 bars.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806076922208.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806076922208.html)
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I've been contemplating getting these to try on 218 bars.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806076922208.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806076922208.html)
Unfortunately, you can't install spacers.