Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: eminius on May 29, 2020, 04:14:33 PM
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http://www.ltbikes.com/product/100.html
http://www.apexcreative.com.tw/files/CF7-213_GK.jpg
http://www.apexcreative.com.tw/en/page-1183/MOUNTAIN.html
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http://www.ltbikes.com/product/100.html
1880g is fairly light for an AM frame !
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http://www.ltbikes.com/product/100.html
1880g is fairly light for an AM frame !
Yes...it looks impossible...better than the lightest frame out there..i am sceptical to given data too...
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It can be found on Taiwan factory too, with more data
http://www.apexcreative.com.tw/en/page-1183/MOUNTAIN.html
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Looks similar to this one spotted in 2018
http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,1449.0.html
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Is it just me or is that really short, 612mm for 21" frame?
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it's actualy 2.85kg in the 17" size, with the axle
just got one, in the process of making it ready to be built
the frame isn't quite new, by the way, it's been touring the expos since 2018
originally designed by Apex Creative but that company doesn't mass produce frames, they sell designs
it's being sold by Dabomb now as ADV-275 (for 3x the price of Ltbikes), been sold (or planned for manufacturing) for a short while by Lightcarbon as LCFS-712 - I wanted to buy from them initially, but they stopped offering it
Dabomb pictures show a different lower link, though - mine is larger, stiffer (has a second brace below the pivot)
the one I got, assembly quality is underwhelming. The carbon itself seems fine, but some bearing seats are not quite perfect, need new pivot shims because some of the stock ones do not fit very well, lower link touches the frame mid-travel (had to file the link down a bit) :)
https://youtu.be/pmu0zDoWmQY
you can ask me if you're interested in any details which are not on the mfg's website
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lower link, pivot axle and shims - filed down at the factory, because the sizes are a few .1mm off, you can see what that did to the original shims
https://i.imgur.com/cPzDAed.jpg
paint where there should be none ;) (yes, they painted it with some of the bearings pressed in)
https://i.imgur.com/qr3j3T7.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/t5b13SM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/tkY5MvN.jpg
Every other page for this frame says 205x60mm shock, but Alisa from Ltbikes assured me it works with 65mm as well (might not know what she's talking about, though)
will see whether or not I'll have to reduce my Mara's travel to 60mm :)
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I saw this when shoping around for my current bike. I was quite interested but only found Dabomb frames so ditched it. 160mm rear travel right?
I got a Ican P9 in the end but good on you for trying something different. Keep us posted to how it comes along.
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Design looks good, but it seems like LT are extremely amateurish as a manufacturer. Shame Light Carbon don't offer it. They wouldn't ship that kind of crap.
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https://youtu.be/BWarEOsBVUk
It is for a 60mm stroke shock after all (and not 205x65 as LTbikes representative assured me)
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I saw this when shoping around for my current bike. I was quite interested but only found Dabomb frames so ditched it. 160mm rear travel right?
I got a Ican P9 in the end but good on you for trying something different. Keep us posted to how it comes along.
yes,please,keep us updated...
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I will
it's not built yet - need to make a few parts for the shock (tools, spacer, volume reducers)
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I will
it's not built yet - need to make a few parts for the shock (tools, spacer, volume reducers)
I'm assuming LT haven't offered any kind of solution or fixes for the issues?
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haven't told them yet :)
I'll invite them here once it's built and I have the whole picture
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How you doin...any new pictures...
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almost there
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(https://i.imgur.com/43wZSGy.jpg)
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(https://i.imgur.com/43wZSGy.jpg)
So have you talked to LT now that you have it rideable? What is their view / solution for all the issues.
If they've sold more than one unit, you're surely not the only one to have these problems.
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In order for the suspension to move unimpeded, I had to replace 6 pivot spacers/washers and file the lower link down quite a bit:
(https://i.imgur.com/w2QyoXJ.jpg)
Also the rear derailleur hanger, despite looking quite solidly made, doesn't align with the b-screw very well so this ghetto solution had to be applied (RD is Box one 11spd):
(https://i.imgur.com/ybKxbnH.jpg)
Sent them a link to this thread, will see what happens
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https://youtu.be/BWarEOsBVUk
It is for a 60mm stroke shock after all (and not 205x65 as LTbikes representative assured me)
Shock in the video:
(https://i.imgur.com/El0QPfM.jpg)
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Thank you for the update. It's a nice looking bike. It's unfortunate you had to go through the ordeal with your shock, but hopefully your efforts will save someone else the headache in the future.
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well you can buy a 60mm shock but I dunno if you can buy a frameset that doesn't require this much work to actually work :)
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I'm assuming they haven't responded to you?
If they intend to sell many bikes outside of China, it would be in their interests to respond and address the problems, since this thread will be viewed by most potential buyers, if they do any Googling.
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I don't expect them to respond quickly, probably still looking at the photos I sent them last Tuesday
might have to email them videos as well because youtube probably doesn't open in China either without using VPN to circumvent the firewall
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bruto, it looks like you have filed down the link to allow for full extension of the shock, is that correct? Would that be necessary using the 60mm shock or only because they gave you the wrong shock size?
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you mean full compression of the shock
65mm won't work - see the second video where the seatstay bridge hits the seat tube at bottom out
it kinda had full range of travel as documented in the first video - just with a little hitch at about 40-45mm into shock stroke which probably wasn't good for the bearings :) oh, and reduced smoothness of travel quite a bit
regarding the link touching the BB shell - I guess it's either down to manufacturing variances (lower pivot location relative to the rest of the front triangle) or whoever designed this bigger lower link (original one is smaller and doesn't seem to have the second brace - see http://yuris.seesaa.net/article/458910710.html ) had his numbers off and didn't leave enough clearance between the link and the frame to allow for too much paint or carbon
Maybe someone from LTbikes can clear this up
btw, the frame has completely enclosed BB shell and head tube which is good I guess - water can't enter BB through the seat or down tube
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so they gladly apologize for painted bearings and me having to make new pivot shims to better suit the asymmetry of this particular frame, but no more than that
thanked me for pointing out that listed weight is 1kg lower than actual and that listed shock stroke is incorrect
more funny shit about the linkage, however
in response to my bitching about me having to grind down the lower link to make it stop touching the frame in the middle of travel, LT's contact person (a girl, judging by the English name chosen) suggested a few times that I put this little (11mm thick) elastic block back where I removed it from - between lower link and BB shell
in the photo, the frame is built and due to the shock having a negative spring, is not at full extension and I cant squeeze the block back in without some force
its pictured upside down - was bolted to the link from the inside
my understanding is that it's function is to prevent the frame from moving during transportation so I removed it when found out that it prevents free frame movement without the shock
she, however, sent me a video of this frame on their endurance testing (my guess) rig that pulls down on the seat tube with some force while having the axles fixed
and even in this video, a spike in resistance at about 2/3 through the travel (where this block most is compressed), is visible despite the machine probably exerting a few hundred kg-force on the frame
she is adamant that it needs to be there for some purpose that is yet unexplained to me
any ideas who and why would want to add this mid-stroke bumper?
by the way, the block wouldn't prevent the need to grind the link down because it still came in contact with BB shell at one point in travel, would've just taken more force to reach that point with the rubber thing in there
don't deal with this company (LTbikes), save yourself the hassle
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I'd be very, very surprised if LT do their own layups and have their own testing rigs. This looks like poorly informed (not dishonest) agents selling stuff from a bad workshop (as opposed to factory). There's just too much wrong here. The frame itself seems like a nicely designed open mold that could have sold a shitload if Light Carbon had done a version of it as they originally announced ... but who ever is responsible for putting this together doesn't seem to have had much if any expertise or experience, or they were cowboys and didn't care.
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Is the block that translucent piece with 2 bolts going thru it?
I agree that the description sounds like a block to stop movement during shipping. I'm surprised it's allowing full travel since the suspension travels along a pre determined path and if it's impeded the movement should stop or additional resistance is applied from the mini elastomer spring, which if needed, should have been designed into the suspension kinematics. Since the link would otherwise hit the BB shell and the block still allows the suspension to reach full travel, then something must be flexing quite a bit.
I would be really interested in an explanation from the company but having dealt with these types of companies and the language barrier, I know that's highly unlikely. I imagine you either push for a refund because of all the problems, dispute the purchase with credit card if possible, or do what you're doing and try to get it rideable and get as much use as possible. It's a shame because it looks like it could have a lot of potential.
Let us know what happens and how it rides if you get there.
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I put it back in for argument's sake and with the built frame, rear wheel has enough leverage to compress the block and allow full travel, but it still adds resistance and I'm lost for ideas why that would even be necessary when you have a shock and a leverage curve that is very linear (not regressive)
The resistance also peaks before bottom out and lets off a bit after that point so Apex Creative rep's argument (yes, I send the same question to the address listed here: http://www.apexcreative.com.tw/ since I thought they're the original designers) that it's there to "help with bottom-out", doesn't really hold
Due to this fact the frame locks itself in bottom-out position as well if you compress it without a shock or with a deflated one :)
it's f'n late-midstroke bumper is what it is and it makes no sense
i don't think a full refund is in order (unless I ship it back to them) because the frame isn't broken, it's just that whoever assembled it did a crappy job and the rep doesn't know what she's talking about
I suppose I can push for the cost of making new shims, which is not much really
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Apex rep also pushed the bumper story? That's strange....
Maybe shoot Light Carbon an email and ask why they ultimately rejected the design? Could be revealing.
Maybe Apex have lost the plot and that bumper is some kind of misguided bandaid.
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it's a linear leverage raitio frame, ffs
you can tune your shock for progressiveness instead of attaching elastic blocks to a link
LT's girl said something about the frame having been designed by "an Italian" which makes me think Apex might not have as much to do with it as I previously thought
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it's a linear leverage raitio frame, ffs
you can tune your shock for progressiveness instead of attaching elastic blocks to a link
LT's girl said something about the frame having been designed by "an Italian" which makes me think Apex might not have as much to do with it as I previously thought
I'm not sure that's necessarily here nor there. There are a lot of hired guns designing these frames, whether ostensibly they originate with an ODM like Apex or not.
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so they gladly apologize for painted bearings and me having to make new pivot shims to better suit the asymmetry of this particular frame, but no more than that
thanked me for pointing out that listed weight is 1kg lower than actual and that listed shock stroke is incorrect
more funny shit about the linkage, however
in response to my bitching about me having to grind down the lower link to make it stop touching the frame in the middle of travel, LT's contact person (a girl, judging by the English name chosen) suggested a few times that I put this little (11mm thick) elastic block back where I removed it from - between lower link and BB shell
in the photo, the frame is built and due to the shock having a negative spring, is not at full extension and I cant squeeze the block back in without some force
its pictured upside down - was bolted to the link from the inside
my understanding is that it's function is to prevent the frame from moving during transportation so I removed it when found out that it prevents free frame movement without the shock
she, however, sent me a video of this frame on their endurance testing (my guess) rig that pulls down on the seat tube with some force while having the axles fixed
and even in this video, a spike in resistance at about 2/3 through the travel (where this block most is compressed), is visible despite the machine probably exerting a few hundred kg-force on the frame
she is adamant that it needs to be there for some purpose that is yet unexplained to me
any ideas who and why would want to add this mid-stroke bumper?
by the way, the block wouldn't prevent the need to grind the link down because it still came in contact with BB shell at one point in travel, would've just taken more force to reach that point with the rubber thing in there
don't deal with this company (LTbikes), save yourself the hassle
This QA passed sticker says it all. It's one of those very cheap ones you see everywhere on very cheap Chinese products. At Carbonda they use at least three different colors and bigger ones. And you can see sharpie on it like a signature of the inspector
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so how is ride..?