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Messages - blackpyros

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Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Velobuild VB-R-218
« on: May 10, 2024, 08:40:00 AM »
Just to clarify: Of course it makes a difference. Tightening down the top cap does nothing if you’ve already clamped your stem to the steerer. The top cap/expander assembly is there to press the stem down whilst pulling the fork up and therefore put preload on the upper and lower headset bearing. If the stem can’t move cuz it’s clamped to the steerer, you won’t get any preload on the headset. And sure, if you then go on and tighten down the top cap more and more, it might even break. Though in almost twenty years of biking I have never managed to kill a top cap like that. You might have had particularly bad quality ones.
As I said I was not into headset shenanigans but thanks to kind people like you explaining things I think I finally understand it and it makes sense now.

Both caps were kind of shit, the VB one broke before even applying 6 Nm, the carbon one withstood that force but developed cracks probably because the countersunk head screw didn't fit the cap really well.

I now ordered caps together with screws declared to fit 100 % so I should be good now.
Thanks again everybody for help.

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Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Velobuild VB-R-218
« on: May 10, 2024, 02:59:11 AM »
lol it was meant to simply show a gap between the top of the stem (handlebars in the 218 case) and the steerer tube.
Yep I would sand down the crap top cap or run the carbon one. Did you try assembling per my steps?
I will try the advice of increasing the gap by one 5mm spacer and see how it goes. Also I can't really follow your steps exactly as I would need to disconnect the front hydraulic hose to remove the fork from the headtube but I guess it's fine installing and fully tightening the plug after fork and spacers are already installed.

But I will definitely try to tighten the top cap before clamping the stem although I guess it doesn't really matter. I will also try to apply some carbon paste on the plug to make sure that thing doesn't move up inside of the steerer when tightening the top cap.

EDIT: OK I tried to add the spacer and it indeed helped. No more headset play. Allright, time to shorten the steerer. Wanted to shorten it anyway to remove all the spacers. I was too much conservative with them. I noticed with 3,5 cm spacers my handlebar is almost 5 cm higher than my current bike. Without them it will also look much better. Thanks everyone for help, especially those that told me my steerer might be too long.

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Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Velobuild VB-R-218
« on: May 09, 2024, 03:10:18 PM »
Is there enough of a gap with your steerer tube and top cap? There needs to be a gap so everything can squeeze together. Something akin the my attached image.
I am using a Pinarello compression plug and had to sand the VB top cap to allow enough space for everything to compress.
Your image is not very helpful as it's a star nut inside an aluminium steerer. Carbon steerers use expansion plugs.
I don't really know how big the gap should be. Dogma manual says to cut the steerer 5 mm below the top of the stem, which I did and it looks like in the image.

VB top cap is shit. Not only is it made of fragile aluminium that breaks easily, it's also very thick - double the size of a carbon cap I got with additional spacers I bought. No wonder you had to sand it down if you didn't want to cut the steerer so low that the top grub screw would push into air instead of into the steerer.

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Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Velobuild VB-R-218
« on: May 09, 2024, 12:50:39 PM »
Already ordered 2 more caps with screws they declare to fit 100%. Let's see...

I think people sometimes use plumber's tape (teflon) for loose bearings, electrical tape sounds ghettoer / maybe too flexy?
Btw, if your bearing really is swimming in its hole, then post a video, you may get a new frame. Some play might be acceptable, but if they botched it, they botched it.
It's safe to try the bike with a little play. Don't over do it, dont take it offroad, dont go down a mountain pass, be sensible.
I wouldn't say the bearing was swimming but without the tape it was loose enough to drop from the frame in Earth's gravitational field... The play was corrected by just one layer of that very thin electrical tape...
Already ordered PTFE tape but to apply it I will need to remove the fork from the frame, thus disconnecting the hydraulic hose from the left lever and possibly need to buy a new olive. I use SRAM brakes and levers.

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Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Velobuild VB-R-218
« on: May 09, 2024, 11:52:04 AM »
Just tightening the top cap to max torque 6 Nm didn't help either.

You might try to add a spacer to check if the fork was not cut too long. It happened to me twice.
I don't think my fork was cut too long but just to be sure, how big space should be between bottom of the cap and top of the plug? And should these two touch after fully tightening the top cap?

Also I just broke both of the caps I have.  The first one was an original from Velobuild - some aluminium shit that broke in two parts before even applying 6 Nm with the original socket head cap screw in left. The right one I got with the additional spacers I bought made from carbon developed cracks and is likely not safe to use anymore. It has a hole for a countersunk head screw I had to buy separately. Bought a titanium one. Didn't fit the cap precisely which may be a reason why cracks occurred when applying 6 Nm torque. Seems like I will need a third one. Any recommendations for a good Aliexpress one? The caps are starting to become consumables and I am starting to become frustrated...

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Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Velobuild VB-R-218
« on: May 09, 2024, 08:40:37 AM »
Bike almost finished, but I have issues with a headset play. Any recommendations on what I should do to fix this, as I am not really familiar with headset shenanigans. Some background:
- I've already replaced the original short compression plug with an extra long version (80 mm, not that I expected it will help, I did it mostly for other reasons).
- Also already tightened the plug to max recommended torque for this frame (6 Nm). The integrated handlebar with carbon paste applied tightened with the grub screws to around 3,5 Nm fits firmly already but I guess that's not relevant for a headset play issue?
- The cap on top of the stem I tightened with low torque (around 2,5 Nm) as I believe that's just for the cap to not move and it's not important for the headset itself or am I wrong? (The manual for Dogma says to preload to 2 Nm and then 6 Nm max, but I seriously don't understand why, as the cap is installed as a last part to just cover the stem, so why even preload it? I think the expander plug has to be preloaded before installing the stem or am I wrong again?
- My uneducated guess is the headset play may have something to do with the fact the bottom bearing didn't fit the headtube firmly and there is some play because the headtube seems to be a little wider than it should at the lower part. The upper bearing fits firmly. Top and bottom bearings on this frame are interchangeable and when I swapped them then again bottom bearing is loose and top fits firmly. This means that bearings should be both fine and correct diameter.
- To make the bottom bearing fit firmly too I wrapped it with electrical tape to increase its diameter slightly. This helped with the play during installation but maybe it's not enough after it. Again, I don't really understand how this thing even holds together and why the fork doesn't fall down from the frame...

So what do you guys think? Should I apply glue on the outer side of the bottom bearing like Loctite 638 or should I do something completely different first? And is it safe to ride with a headset play, at least for some shorter test ride or should I resist the temptation to try my new bike?

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I use the rime tape which came with the wheels. It is 25 mm wide.
Thanks but that's a rim tape. I am a little worried if 25mm rim strip would perfectly fit as well. Don't really want to waste another money. Would be nice if anyone here that uses a rim strip could confirm.

8
Does anyone use rim strips with this wheelset? I really struggle to choose proper width. The specs say the wheels have inner width of 21mm. I bought and installed Ritchey 17mm rim strips thinking covering just the middle bent area will be enough as one only really need to cover the holes for nipples. But now thanks to that bending the strip sticks out a little and I am affraid it's sharp edges may damage inner tubes and cause flats. Maybe I should buy wider strips but how wide exactly? I don't want them to get in the way with the tyre beads.

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Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Velobuild VB-R-218
« on: April 14, 2024, 08:12:11 AM »
This setup has worked fine, but it was a bit heavy. A few weeks ago I hit a pothole and the computer mount broke, so I ordered the off the shelf variant for a pinarello. It's made from the brand "close the gap" and is currently very popular in germany (probably because germans like rules and there is a rule that you must have a bell on your bike)
Thanks. "Close the gap" looks like a very solid and elegant solution but I am not sure if I want to pay 60 euros for a Garmin mount with bell. You can find cheap chinese copies on Aliexpress (like five times cheaper) but sadly I only found versions for either standard aero bars or normal round bars. I cannot find a chinese version for Most iTalon bars.

Btw does the bell of the "Close the gap" sound good and loud enough? Are you satisfied with it? Did you have any problems mounting it on this frame bars since they are just a copy of the Most original?

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Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Velobuild VB-R-218
« on: April 09, 2024, 02:46:56 AM »
Anyway, my conclusion from this is (and it's pure speculation of course) that the cracks in seat tube actually may have nothing to do with the torque of the grub screws there (since they are not tigtened to the frame itself) and rather are a result of a design flaw when maybe forces that are caused by a rider sitting and riding on a bike are transferred to that area and said area is simply not strong enough.

I am also sad they are stop making this model after they actually listened to some of the suggestions made from customers and thus improving the overall quality. For instance my frame came with all the bolts already screwed inside the frame or handlebar which negates two possible issues - bolts being lost during packaging or transportation and wrong/damaged threads.

Or they changed design of BB area where the BB shell is finally one piece of metal so no more BB facing issues. The screw there is also shorter and so even DUB BB fits.

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Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Velobuild VB-R-218
« on: April 08, 2024, 03:01:41 PM »
The frame is on closeout sale. You can only order leftover stock. The disc frames are only available in size S. I know, because I asked. I like my rim brake 218 so much that I thought about building a disc version as well.
That's kind of an irony considering you already got the disc version first instead by their mistake and now you can't build a disc version because the only left are too small for you. :D

Velobuild respect their warranty actually.
I know they do but I am still a bit afraid as people say they are stop making this frame and what if I ever need a replacement...

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Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Velobuild VB-R-218
« on: April 08, 2024, 02:30:08 PM »
I probably used 4nm, but I'm not sure. I may have been lazy.
Thanks for answer but... wow, that's kinda heavy torque. I was expecting the measures would allow you to go much lower. It's the maximum allowed torque for the real Dogma F. Someone here did use less (3,5 Nm) and still got the cracks...

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Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Velobuild VB-R-218
« on: April 08, 2024, 01:19:24 PM »
Regarding why they stop selling the 218.. I'm not surprised.
You are a second one to say here they are stop selling this model. May I ask what do you base this claim on? In fact, you can still order the frame on their website to this day.

Anyway: I got cracks too and Chris send me a replacement frame.
May I ask where did you get the cracks?

I would recommend taking measures agains seatpost slipping though so one can use less force on the clamping.
Also please can you say what torque did you use after taking these measures? It would be helpful as I am currently in the process of building a bike on this frame.

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Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components / Re: Velobuild VB-R-218
« on: April 08, 2024, 06:00:35 AM »
This is not the first frame with cracks in a seat tube in that specific area and I cannot fathom why these cracks even appear there in the first place as the bolts are not tightened to the frame itself. The holes are there just to access the bolts and all the force from tightening them should act on the seatpost so if anything the seatpost should crack and not the seat tube.

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