Chinertown
Other Resources => Component Deals & Selection => Topic started by: kbike on December 06, 2022, 11:20:54 PM
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Decided to make a thread for the ltwoo rx groupsets. I expect a lot of ? will be asked about what parts can be mixed and matched.
The new rx has reach adjustment that adjusts with a 2mm hex screw on the front of the brake. There is a rubber tab on the inside of the brake levers. It stops the shift lever from clattering but the lever does hang up on the rubber every so often. This leaves the lever about 2-3mm unflush with the brake lever this has not impact on performance. I'm use to some texture on the shifter levers. The levers are very smooth other than the screen printed logo under the clear coat. Reminds me of campy.
The thumb shifter does take a firm push. I think it will be usable from the drops. The rubber hoods feel nice and thick. Can see the mold seam which won't be felt I'm just surprised to see it with how nice the shifters look.
Brakes have to use their adapters. there are 4 to choose from 140/160 and 160/180. Tons of bolts. Compression bolt,olive and barb given.
My general feeling to the groupset is there are some very nicely done parts but I notice when there are corners cuts.
The front derailleur has cable guides. The front has a built in cable adjuster. Front cage is stamped steel. Rear looks nice has a nicely done carbon front cage and metal rear. There are two type of pulleys with the lower one having a more wave design. Both derailleur still use cheaper materials and manufacturing. The spring is small on the rear derailleur compared to shimano 105 5800 and sensah SRX. It's not as hard to move as the 105 or SRX but the tension seems fine.
Haven't played with anything on a bike yet. I hope it does what I have planned.
Weights
Shifters 582g
Brakes with hoses and adapters 372g
Rear derailleur 218g
Front derailleur 108g
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more pics
comparing ltwoo vs 105 5800 vs sensah srx. Can see how much smaller the spring is, it comes with oil on the spring vs the srx which is dry no lube. See the pulleys used,how the hanger mounts, b screw length compared to SRX and has blue thread locker.
Front derailleur see the cable slot and loop(button) cable wraps around and the cable adjuster.
Right shifter reach adjustment on front of brake. behind shifter and brake has a rubber pad screw on. Side view of the right shifter
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Great to see some first thoughts and pics from someone who has it on hand! Any plans of installing it soon?
I think I may have ruined my rear shifter (SRAM Red 22) when overhauling my bike and a replacement is more than 2/3 the cost of the 11 R9 hydro groupset...I'm almost considering just ordering the LTwoo group. Did you order from Aliexpress?
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Definitely giving LTWOO and Sensah a close look for my next gravel build. I want something modern, more upright than my GT Grade (would consider flat bar but sticking with drops would be nice) and a killer value.
Seems like one of these would be a no brainer over Shimano or SRAM whereas on my mountain bikes I’m very particular about almost always using XT everything.
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I love that something like this finally exists. Groupset prices have gotten out of hand. However, this has Campagnolo written all over it. At least the shifters look like they're very closely "inspired" - the mechanism seems like a blatant copy of Campag's Power Shift. I wonder how they're getting around Patent infringements on this one.
The front derailleur is intriguing. It seems to be a genuine original design and I love that it incorporates a cable tensioner.
Question: What kind of pads are these calipers using? Is it an existing standard and are they easy to source? Or is it a proprietary design?
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I have 2 plans yet I haven't decided. I have a gravel and a climber frame. I can get the climber under 6.8kg with this ltwoo groupset. I'd really enjoy getting more range out of my gravel bike and having new brakes.
This was my first 12 speed set. I felt it pointless if it didn't add range. It's a large cost increase to consider because cassettes are in the $40-50 for a 11-34 on a hg freehub. Any 9-10t cassette will cost $100+ plus needing a hd(r) freehub.
I will take apart the brakes to check pads today. Will be nice if they match pads I have on hand. Id like to see how the egg roll heat coolers are fit.
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I'm curious, since the 12 speed cassette fits an 11 speed hub, is it possible to use an 11 speed RD with the 12 speed shifters? I'd love to keep my existing RD/FD setup and just swap out the shifters and cassette to save on cost.
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I'm curious, since the 12 speed cassette fits an 11 speed hub, is it possible to use an 11 speed RD with the 12 speed shifters? I'd love to keep my existing RD/FD setup and just swap out the shifters and cassette to save on cost.
Hope someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the RD looks the same to me on both groups. I would imagine it works fine. Sensah probably uses the same RD for both 11 and 12 speed groups as well?
I haven't seen the shifters/brakes for sale on their own, though...I'd be interested in that as well.
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StiffWeenies posted a video with a guy using a r7000 working with the rx 12 speed shifters and 12s cassette. I will be swapping in my other rd's to see what works as well. I want to see if the srx or ulterga rx can work. I was told the ltwoo gravel rd has a range of 11-52. I want to see if 9 or 10 is possible and if the rx road rd can use a 36. I will throw on a 40t if there is enough room with the 36t cassette
I took the pads out of the brakes. I put in shimano style k03s and l02a pads. I doubt the shimano j0 models will work.
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StiffWeenies posted a video with a guy using a r7000 working with the rx 12 speed shifters and 12s cassette. I will be swapping in my other rd's to see what works as well. I want to see if the srx or ulterga rx can work. I was told the ltwoo gravel rd has a range of 11-52. I want to see if 9 or 10 is possible and if the rx road rd can use a 36. I will throw on a 40t if there is enough room with the 36t cassette
I took the pads out of the brakes. I put in shimano style k03s and l02a pads. I doubt the shimano j0 models will work.
Nice. I'm probably most interested in using the hydraulic brakes on my 1x gravel setup. I also have a Shimano GRX RD and LTwoo's GR9 gravel RD I could use in my parts bin. My road bike is running 105 R7000, but on Juin Tech calipers. I'm really enjoying mixing-n-matching Shimano and Chinese components to fill in certain component gaps.
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The right shifter hood rubber pinches the thumb shifter causing it to get stuck and not returning up. I trimmed the rubber away so it will click back smoothly. The shifter allows multi shifts in both directions with the right hand levers. Have to see how the indexing is for the front. Then see what the hydros are like.
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pics of shifter. if the left thumb shiftrt does the same i'll trim the rubber for it too.
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The right shifter hood rubber pinches the thumb shifter causing it to get stuck and not returning up. I trimmed the rubber away so it will click back smoothly. The shifter allows multi shifts in both directions with the right hand levers. Have to see how the indexing is for the front. Then see what the hydros are like.
If it does multiple shifts in both directions then I correct myself. It's a copy of Campagnolo Ultra Shift then. It actually seems to be absolutely identical judging from the shots of the ratchet ring.
This design has been around ever since Campagnolo first introduced their first generation of brifters in the early 90s. They only really ever updated the number of gears it can shift starting from 8sp until 12sp today. So maybe the design itself is not protected anymore since it's that old?
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So how is it looking? Any installation feels?
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Sorry no new updates on using the rx groupset. I had a huge problem with the frame so that has set back that build. :(
Though I was surprised to get these today. So here's some pictures as a nice present.:D
GRT
weights
left shifter - 194g
right shifter - 284g
shifter together - 476g
Rear Derailleur - 274g
Brakes - 344g with mounts 372g
Onirii 160mm rotors gold 100g each
The GRT logo is used on the brakes, rear derailleur, shifters. The GR logo is also placed on the right thumb shifters as well. The spring on the rear is better than the rx. The clutch is pretty firm but not like locking my ultegra rx. The cage on the rear is full carbon. There are two different sized pulleys.
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tracevelo review on the groupset
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMu7nIURiVo
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China Cycling also has his first impressions video. Looks like theres already been an updated version since his is different than Luke's. Think I'll wait a bit until the first wave of issues is worked out.
https://youtu.be/ckoy7XpHf8c
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His review video feels kinda silly though because his main complaint was the free stroke was wrong and then it turns out he never set it up. Glad it was addressed, but I feel like the complaining about it should have just been cut. Glad we're getting some info though!
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His review video feels kinda silly though because his main complaint was the free stroke was wrong and then it turns out he never set it up. Glad it was addressed, but I feel like the complaining about it should have just been cut. Glad we're getting some info though!
Still relevant in the sense of the lack of manufacturer instructions / support though. Even the brake bleed instructions video makes absolutely no mention of the free stroke adjustment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRrPe0YbDpk
Will be interesting to see how early reviewers go with the stiff paddles + return of the right lever and whether these things have been fixed.
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I have the hanging lever on my left road shifter. My version doesn't have the rx logo on the thumbs. My grt shifter does have the gr on thumb. I didn't want to mention this hang up til I attached the brake lines. I assumed once brakes are free of air the brake levers wouldn't droop into the shift lever.
Again really sorry I haven't finished. May just run everything and test it on the stand or trainer if I can find the thru axle adapters.
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Maybe an electronic version by summer?
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We'll see ... both are aiming for product available by the SBS - Shanghai Bike Show. Assuming it doesn't get cancelled again. Hence 5 months.
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Re Ltwoos new groupset: it seems like early movers/adopters are used as a free testers - or from our perspective: you pay to be a tester.
Explains some part of the low price point, but is a very doubtful strategy and I won’t get it unless things are cleared …
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The price point isn't exactly low at the moment. They currently cost more than GRX 600 :(
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Re Ltwoos new groupset: it seems like early movers/adopters are used as a free testers - or from our perspective: you pay to be a tester.
Explains some part of the low price point, but is a very doubtful strategy and I won’t get it unless things are cleared …
Someone commented on China Cycling that part of the reason for the rushed release is due to lack of IP protection. I guess due to the manufacturing process while using multiple vendors it's very hard to keep trade secrets. They want to release products before the designs get pirated by someone else.
My take, just don't buy first generation of anything! Same goes with cars, game consoles, etc.
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Still relevant in the sense of the lack of manufacturer instructions / support though. Even the brake bleed instructions video makes absolutely no mention of the free stroke adjustment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRrPe0YbDpk
Will be interesting to see how early reviewers go with the stiff paddles + return of the right lever and whether these things have been fixed.
Hi
Paddle stiffness is solved (see tracevelo's video comment section), there's a screw in the ratchet to increase and decrease stiffness. The brake softness is solved with a combination of
closing the huge gap of the pistons by actuating 10-15 times the brakes without rotors and then finely adjusting the freestroke screw (you have to be super careful not to screw it too much or it pops out, it was a 2-3h pain in the ass to put mine back in). I did that to mine and now the brake is super responsive.
And as I told to Chinacycling and Tracevelo, my paddle returning was never a real issue. Sure it sometimes does not go all the way up, but thst does not block downshifts in my case.
So in summary, levers fine (I think I prefer the clean design of Sensah, but it doesn't bother me to have the side lever), brakes are fantastic, front derrailleur is perfect. Rear derailleur ... So so. I have some issues with my chain (gx eagle) jumping around near the lower pulley when downshifting + going to small chainring at the same time. It sometimes lands at an inclined angle. I have replaced the lower pulley with a narrow-wide profile one (in my opinion, the original should have been like that) and it has definitely improved, but still the shifting is not as crisp as I would like. Maybe with a sram flattop chain or with a chain from other manufacturer. Or maybe with another casette.
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What frame/bike is that mirphak? Looks great.
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So in summary, levers fine (I think I prefer the clean design of Sensah, but it doesn't bother me to have the side lever), brakes are fantastic, front derrailleur is perfect. Rear derailleur ... So so. I have some issues with my chain (gx eagle) jumping around near the lower pulley when downshifting + going to small chainring at the same time. It sometimes lands at an inclined angle. I have replaced the lower pulley with a narrow-wide profile one (in my opinion, the original should have been like that) and it has definitely improved, but still the shifting is not as crisp as I would like. Maybe with a sram flattop chain or with a chain from other manufacturer. Or maybe with another casette.
Thanks for the update - nice to have some progress on those issues. Someone on the China Cycling video commented that they had improved shifting from the RX derailleur after changing the pulleys to Shimano ones from their R8000 derailleur, so perhaps that's worth a try too.
(https://i.imgur.com/KYbWKOM.png)
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What frame/bike is that mirphak? Looks great.
Flyxii FE02, aka Flybike FM616 aka bombtrack ext-c hook 2020 (or was it 2021)? Bought it in Aliexpress for 400 eur before taxes. I have seen it with coupons for about 320€, so quite a bargain.
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Thanks for the update - nice to have some progress on those issues. Someone on the China Cycling video commented that they had improved shifting from the RX derailleur after changing the pulleys to Shimano ones from their R8000 derailleur, so perhaps that's worth a try too.
(https://i.imgur.com/KYbWKOM.png)
I already replaced the lower pulley with a 12t narrow-wide from stone . Better but not perfect. Now you convinced me to also replace the upper one
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Rear derailleur ... So so. I have some issues with my chain (gx eagle) jumping around near the lower pulley when downshifting + going to small chainring at the same time. It sometimes lands at an inclined angle. I have replaced the lower pulley with a narrow-wide profile one (in my opinion, the original should have been like that) and it has definitely improved, but still the shifting is not as crisp as I would like. Maybe with a sram flattop chain or with a chain from other manufacturer. Or maybe with another casette.
I'm currently using the LTwoo GR9 shift levers on a budget build and I had slight issues downshifting through the small cassette gear cogs. Are you using an aftermarket lightweight cassette? I notice the LTwoo shifters seem to shift a bit better with a Shimano 105 cassette. I think the Shimano cassette has tighter spacing at the small cog range. Though on the road it's not much of an issue and I've opted to continue using my aftermarket lightweight cassette, but on the stand my 105 equipped bike does shift better versus my LTwoo equipped bike both using the same aftermarket 11-32t cassettes.
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I wonder now ... Would the braking be compatible with shimano mtb postmount calipers? If so one could use the gravel groupset to build quite interesting and cheap monstercross bikes.
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I'm currently using the LTwoo GR9 shift levers on a budget build and I had slight issues downshifting through the small cassette gear cogs. Are you using an aftermarket lightweight cassette? I notice the LTwoo shifters seem to shift a bit better with a Shimano 105 cassette. I think the Shimano cassette has tighter spacing at the small cog range. Though on the road it's not much of an issue and I've opted to continue using my aftermarket lightweight cassette, but on the stand my 105 equipped bike does shift better versus my LTwoo equipped bike both using the same aftermarket 11-32t cassettes.
Yes, I am using the wuzei (aliexpress) 11-34 12s casette
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I wonder now ... Would the braking be compatible with shimano mtb postmount calipers? If so one could use the gravel groupset to build quite interesting and cheap monstercross bikes.
I did research on this awhile back, I believe it would be dependent on hydraulic hose type. The post mount calipers I found compatible with GRX shifters are the Shimano BR-RS785 post calipers. I haven't checked the hydraulic hose type, but I'm guessing LTwoo and Shimano are using similar hoses. I have a post mount frame and at the time I was thinking of swapping my GRX400 groupset over. I'm guessing the BR-RS785 would work with the LTwoo GRT shifters, but this is just a guess. I'd have to do more research. On a side note I am using the LTwoo GR9 1x shifters with a GRX400 RD, so the possibility to mix-n-match is very doable with Shimano components.
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Same hoses and same olives, yes.
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Have you seen this video regarding the issues with shimano derailleur and aftermarket casettes? Maybe it is not the problem of the casette after all, but a change in Shimano designs to be compatible with no one else hahahhaa
https://youtu.be/D16oP6i9i1o
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Have you seen this video regarding the issues with shimano derailleur and aftermarket casettes? Maybe it is not the problem of the casette after all, but a change in Shimano designs to be compatible with no one else hahahhaa
https://youtu.be/D16oP6i9i1o
I'm not entirely convinced with Trace Velo aka Luke's argument regarding aftermarket cassettes. I'm currently using 105 5800 11 speed shifters and R7000 RD + lightweight aftermarket 11-32t cassette. My setup shifts perfectly fine and that's also using an AliEx cheap OSPW cage. My belief is that shifting issues has more to do with the shifters themselves. Having used both Sensah Team Pro and LTwoo 11 speed Shimano compatible shifters, neither one can spot-on index like my current 105 and GRX shifters. I believe the shift tolerances are a bit more sloppy on aftermarket shifters. I think SRoad updated their road cassettes to shift a bit better as well.
Also I tend to prefer the shadow style RDs, I have a bad habit of dropping my bike on the drive side and the shadow design has saved my RD hanger from getting bent numerous times.
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1x12 is now available. RD does seem to have a clutch mechanism on it. Some stores are offering a nice coupon or discount. Currently in my Ali cart as I figure out how I'll explain this to my wife. ;D
shorturl.at/BGIT2
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I'm not entirely convinced with Trace Velo aka Luke's argument regarding aftermarket cassettes. I'm currently using 105 5800 11 speed shifters and R7000 RD + lightweight aftermarket 11-32t cassette. My setup shifts perfectly fine
Can confirm ultralight Sunshine cassette on my VB build with Ultegra R8000 shifters+RD68000 RD and a humongous dinner plate 11-50 Sunshine cassette on flatbar hybrid with Deore shifter+M7100 RD works perfect. I cannot distinguish between the performance with earlier Shimano cassettes which were on there before replacing.
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My opinion after dealing with countless issues is these aren't worth the price and there is no help. With sensah you basically received a sram clone easy to work on at a bargain price. These ltwoo are campy clones not easy to work on (no guides) and not cheap.
I've fixed a ton of issues on my own with no support from the seller or ltwoo. Once more people run into issues the lack of help will show the frustration.
There is 2 ways for replacing shifter cables. Both ways are a pain.
Shifter position and how much forced needed isn't easy to understand and I'm still working on it. Poorly adjusting or assembly can't really mess up the shifters. My shifters weren't assembled correctly and shifted like crap. To make the adjustments you need to remove the brake lever with two t10 then hope you can get a 3mm onto the screw for adjusting. At least that what I'm assuming.
Bleeding brakes is more effort than I've ever needed. The procedure to fully remove air isn't what I've ever done. I need to syringe from both the shifter and caliper. Caliper needs another t (star) Allen, I forgot the size). You have to own a bleed kit with screw on fittings for the syringe. I'm guess the design is trapping air unless you force it out.
You need a 10 and 8mm wrench or you will destroy the shifters brake line. The 10mm barely holds onto its bolt.
I hate the extra hardware needed for mounting brakes. I want a nice clean look not all these adapters and screws.
You're going to see a ton of positive unboxing vids but no experience really working on these.
I currently am using my gravel right shifter and road left. They have obviously changed something beyond just screening some words on the shifters. I haven't nor do I want to attempt to fully disassemble the internals without a guide.
In all the last 6 months of cycling products I've purchased so many have been worthless half finished products at excessive pricing.
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- Bleeding from below is something I have done also with other shimano brakes. In fact I have in my MTB a 4 piston shimano XT, but I got by mistake the T8100 brake levers and they are soft to my taste no matter how much I bleed them. The LTWOO for instance feel better to me.
- Shifter cable: mine came incorrectly installed and the shifter was doing this crap: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_vF6lKv7aeE jumping 4 teeth at a time in the ratchet. The cable was twisted !!! . I put it correctly and solved this. Still I wonder if I should have used a completely new cable after this instead of more-or-less straightening it.
- For the shift strength that is needed to apply, there is a grub screw if I remember correctly near the clamp area. Luke had the same issue, but once adjusted I believe it is ok? (mine is definitely ok after adjusting that).
- Shifting is still so-so, but it is mostly because the default pulleys are shit. Also there is no chain recommendation. I find SRAM MTB chains okeish with chinese 11-34 casette (Wuzei), but definitely not perfect. I would like to know what other people used. Maybe some Shimano 105 11-34 casette with shimano/KMC chain works better?
- Mounting of brakes: I do agree, they could have been simpler and cleaner. But not the end of the world.
- In my opinion, the spring on the rear derailleur should have been a little stronger. It works, but I find it a little soft.
So far I am happy with the groupset. I have been running it for 1 month already and maybe 800-1000 km?. Not perfect, but reasonable and does not work worse than the Shimano GRX 810 I had before.
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I posted this on the AliEx deal thread, but I'll post it here as well. Ltwoo 11 speed 1x hydraulic groupset is now available:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804954514361.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804954514361.html)
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Much cheaper in the official store
https://es.aliexpress.com/item/1005005148057429.html?
But I would honestly go for the 12s one. One more ring in the back and probably easier to find casettes in the long run.
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If you are in the EU you can get GRX 1x11 for about the same price...
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If you are in the EU you can get GRX 1x11 for about the same price...
In bike-discount you have the levers and brakes (grx600) for 400 the set. Add 100 eur for the RD (812) and makes it 500 EUR. These cost 400 EUR.
https://www.bike-discount.de/es/shimano-juego-de-frenos-de-disco-grx-bl/st-rx600-br-rx400-de-1x11-velocidades?number=20073286&__delivery=280&__currency=1&srsltid=Ad5pg_EmqHwZl2Mnd8BDJpdDPxsXsOvGBYzGCPIPRhi0_bDrCa9PCFDkOIU
For that price I would be also wary to get the ltwoo, but ... the GRX without mods goes only up to 46t (and officially to 42t), which is garbage in my opinion if you want a 1x system. I think they should have designed the RD as their MTB ones, going up to 50t to make it interesting. You can mod them with the garbaruk cage, but then add another 60-80 bucks minimum, so 600 EUR for a decent 1x system.
The ltwoo supposedly goes up to 52t out of the box.
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You can get 600 shifters, 810 derailleur (42t) and callipers for 440 at bike24
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Where I live (USA), the price comes to 340 (without box version) + 32 shipping + 40 tax = USD410~. Cheap-ish but still too expensive to gamble for me.
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In bike-discount you have the levers and brakes (grx600) for 400 the set. Add 100 eur for the RD (812) and makes it 500 EUR. These cost 400 EUR.
https://www.bike-discount.de/es/shimano-juego-de-frenos-de-disco-grx-bl/st-rx600-br-rx400-de-1x11-velocidades?number=20073286&__delivery=280&__currency=1&srsltid=Ad5pg_EmqHwZl2Mnd8BDJpdDPxsXsOvGBYzGCPIPRhi0_bDrCa9PCFDkOIU
For that price I would be also wary to get the ltwoo, but ... the GRX without mods goes only up to 46t (and officially to 42t), which is garbage in my opinion if you want a 1x system. I think they should have designed the RD as their MTB ones, going up to 50t to make it interesting. You can mod them with the garbaruk cage, but then add another 60-80 bucks minimum, so 600 EUR for a decent 1x system.
The ltwoo supposedly goes up to 52t out of the box.
I'm currently running the GRX 812 RD with an 11-50t cassette only using a Wolftooth Goatlink hanger extender, no Garbaruk cage needed. Shifts quite well.
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You can get 600 shifters, 810 derailleur (42t) and callipers for 440 at bike24
Best I can do stateside is Merlincycles for about $530. :-\
Still might go that direction for my build.
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just found this on a dutch Forum....
(https://i.imgur.com/WynfXbs.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/HQwbHgO.jpg)
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In bike-discount you have the levers and brakes (grx600) for 400 the set. Add 100 eur for the RD (812) and makes it 500 EUR. These cost 400 EUR.
https://www.bike-discount.de/es/shimano-juego-de-frenos-de-disco-grx-bl/st-rx600-br-rx400-de-1x11-velocidades?number=20073286&__delivery=280&__currency=1&srsltid=Ad5pg_EmqHwZl2Mnd8BDJpdDPxsXsOvGBYzGCPIPRhi0_bDrCa9PCFDkOIU
For that price I would be also wary to get the ltwoo, but ... the GRX without mods goes only up to 46t (and officially to 42t), which is garbage in my opinion if you want a 1x system. I think they should have designed the RD as their MTB ones, going up to 50t to make it interesting. You can mod them with the garbaruk cage, but then add another 60-80 bucks minimum, so 600 EUR for a decent 1x system.
The ltwoo supposedly goes up to 52t out of the box.
I built three bikes with Shimano RD812 and Garbaruk cage mod. in the meantime you can get a Garbaruk copy for around 20€ on AliX.
The system works perfect up to 50 teeth and at the moment I would take the Shimano combination any day over the overpriced Ltwoo.
I still hope Ltwoo will improve the system and their documentation to be real alternative.
BR Chris
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I built three bikes with Shimano RD812 and Garbaruk cage mod. in the meantime you can get a Garbaruk copy for around 20€ on AliX.
The system works perfect up to 50 teeth and at the moment I would take the Shimano combination any day over the overpriced Ltwoo.
I still hope Ltwoo will improve the system and their documentation to be real alternative.
BR Chris
Curious, so with the Garbaruk cage mod, an extender hanger isn't required giving near stock shift quality? I'm running a Goatlink on my GRX 812 RD right now and I'm using a 13t lower pulley wheel on the stock cage to get slightly better small cog shifting, but in the long run the Garbaruk might be the ideal solution it sounds like.
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Curious, so with the Garbaruk cage mod, an extender hanger isn't required giving near stock shift quality? I'm running a Goatlink on my GRX 812 RD right now and I'm using a 13t lower pulley wheel on the stock cage to get slightly better small cog shifting, but in the long run the Garbaruk might be the ideal solution it sounds like.
Yes in my experience, even using the standard Shimano original pulley wheels the shifting is crisp without any noise. I only use the Garbaruk long cage to replace the original Shimano cage.
I combined it on my builds with the light ZTTO 11-46 cassette that is partly aluminium and I use Squirt wax which works perfect.
So far I did 2200km on that bike and chain and cassette look and feel like new... I have to admit I ride mostly in good weather.
Here is the link to the Garbaruk clone on Ali which costs around 20US$:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004617465688.html
I installed two original Garbaruk and two AliX sourced parts, I can see no difference in fit or function.
Here is how it looks using some AliX pulley wheels but as mentioned using the original Shimano works as well:
(https://i.ibb.co/VxBypS6/Deraileur.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JqkLF7Z)
BR Chris
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Yes in my experience, even using the standard Shimano original pulley wheels the shifting is crisp without any noise. I only use the Garbaruk long cage to replace the original Shimano cage.
I combined it on my builds with the light ZTTO 11-46 cassette that is partly aluminium and I use Squirt wax which works perfect.
So far I did 2200km on that bike and chain and cassette look and feel like new... I have to admit I ride mostly in good weather.
Here is the link to the Garbaruk clone on Ali which costs around 20US$:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004617465688.html
I installed two original Garbaruk and two AliX sourced parts, I can see no difference in fit or function.
Here is how it looks using some AliX pulley wheels but as mentioned using the original Shimano works as well:
(https://i.ibb.co/VxBypS6/Deraileur.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JqkLF7Z)
BR Chris
The only issue on my Goatlink setup is that it just takes slight extra effort to shift from the small cog, but in actual riding it's barely noticeable. I'm really liking the GRX 812 RD as well, it's so well built and flexible. I've seen people using it as a 2x derailleur as well with no issues. I'd love to see someone try using the LTwoo hydraulic shifters with a GRX FD/RD setup. The only issue I'd see going with the 12 speed is having to swap over to different pulley wheels to handle the thinner 12 speed chains.
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Someone on Trace Velo's post shared their experience and that they're using Ltwoo shifters with grx derailleurs.
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Any one know if that cage is compatible with deraileurs other than the advertized RD-RX812?
Yes in my experience, even using the standard Shimano original pulley wheels the shifting is crisp without any noise. I only use the Garbaruk long cage to replace the original Shimano cage.
I combined it on my builds with the light ZTTO 11-46 cassette that is partly aluminium and I use Squirt wax which works perfect.
So far I did 2200km on that bike and chain and cassette look and feel like new... I have to admit I ride mostly in good weather.
Here is the link to the Garbaruk clone on Ali which costs around 20US$:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004617465688.html
I installed two original Garbaruk and two AliX sourced parts, I can see no difference in fit or function.
Here is how it looks using some AliX pulley wheels but as mentioned using the original Shimano works as well:
(https://i.ibb.co/VxBypS6/Deraileur.jpg) (https://ibb.co/JqkLF7Z)
BR Chris
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No idea, I did never checked other detailers for compatibility.
Which deraileur do you want to modify?
There is also a version for Sram if I am not wrong.
BR Chris
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...I installed two original Garbaruk and two AliX sourced parts, I can see no difference in fit or function.
BR Chris
Thanks for the feedback. I have a a Garb cage that I bought to convert a medium cage M8000 11s RD to a larger range 12s, works as it should. If I need to do something similar again I'll go the cheaper route if I can.
Any one know if that cage is compatible with deraileurs other than the advertized RD-RX812?
The different cages are pretty specific but there are several versions. Check Garb's site to see what they offer and then use that info to search AliX.
What RD are you trying to mod? Sometimes you can simply switch the cage to get more range. For example, Shimano's GS, SS and SGS RD'a are all the same except for the cage length and cages are available separately. In the case of Shimano, you do need to make sure the SGS(long cage) RD will allow the cassette range you want to run, you can look those specs up on Shimano's site.
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Thanks for the feedback. I have a a Garb cage that I bought to convert a medium cage M8000 11s RD to a larger range 12s, works as it should. If I need to do something similar again I'll go the cheaper route if I can.
The different cages are pretty specific but there are several versions. Check Garb's site to see what they offer and then use that info to search AliX.
What RD are you trying to mod? Sometimes you can simply switch the cage to get more range. For example, Shimano's GS, SS and SGS RD'a are all the same except for the cage length and cages are available separately. In the case of Shimano, you do need to make sure the SGS(long cage) RD will allow the cassette range you want to run, you can look those specs up on Shimano's site.
Bought a new takeoff r7170 groupset for a good price. I was hoping to loose some weight by replacing the cage. Alternatively I sell it on and buy the ultegra groupset but that's another 800-1000€
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new trace velo video about his new build.
He is reviewing a little the LTwoo hydro a the end telling what he found as issues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLQgaHklZTU
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Sometimes I feel like Trace Velo has access to my AliEx wish list! I swear he's reviewing all the parts I've been eyeballing, even that weird hollowed out crankset! Lol
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He didn't even care to answer an email I sent to Joe (chinacycling) and him sharing my impression on the groupset (also it was me who told him about the silly screw to soften the shift lever). Joe answered and we exchanged a few tips and tricks, but Luke (tracevelo) never did. Megh.
Also, his build is nice, but he is dangerously getting to a budget that is no longer cheap compared to good/decent store/boutique bikes. For 3000 bucks you can get an electronic hydraulic bike from a 'western' brand with warranty, which in addition is endurance so no ugly spacers under the stem ...
https://www.canyon.com/es-es/bicicletas-de-carretera/gran-fondo/endurace/cf/endurace-cf-7-di2/3478.html?dwvar_3478_pv_rahmenfarbe=BK%2FBK
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Can’t fault Luke for wanting to expand beyond bottom of the barrel, low end parts. I think he’s thoroughly covered that. He also needs to keep viewers interested with new content. Chinese fully hydro groups are the trending thing right now, and info on it is in high demand.
Bummer he doesn’t interact with all his viewers. Maybe email isn’t his forte?
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Has anyone here tried to mount 180 mm brake rotors with the GRT groupset, if so can you send a picture of your setup. I've been doing my build with them and the brake calipers require a lot of shims in the front and just do not fit in the back when using a 180 mm rotor.
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could someone please help me out. ive purchased and L-Twoo hydro road groupset but havent decoded on a crankset, any recomendations? i was thinking of going with a shimano 12s 105? thoughts?
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I use the RX4 from Ali.
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I'm going to type this up quickly before I go to work, so I apologize in advance for not attaching photos for proof. I'll add them in later
Just took delivery of the carbon-edition R9 2x11S Hydro groupset. Purchased on AE from what seems to the the LTwoo official store. Chose the "no box" option since it was much cheaper. Didn't ship with brake oil as expected. Bought it since I already have some 11-speed kit and I wanted to save some money.
Seems to be nearly identical to the RX except the shift paddles seem to be injection-molded plastic rather than carbon reinforced like they are on the RX. RD indeed shipped with full-carbon cage. Not that it really matters because that RD is a pig no matter what.
Weights:
-RD : 229g
-FD: 101g
-F Brake Caliper + hose: 162g
-R Caliper + hose: 180g
-L Shifter + cable: 287g
-R Shifter + cable: 289g
-Total (inc. cables+hose): 1248
There was some listing where the groupset was quoted as 1167grams, so a < 100gr & < 7% difference to actual-with-cables+hoses weight is not too shabby. It is 27 grams heavier than the RX set weighed in Jourdan Coulmain's YT video, although he measured shifters without the cables on the scale, so that might account for 10 grams or so.
Edit #1:
Still haven't had time to upload photos, but I've been inspecting them. Like others have said, the derailleurs are trash. RD has some kind of weird wiggling and play that can be felt through the parallelogram and tensioner. Probably less than 0.5mm across the assembly. No way to tighten it up since all the joints are riveted. I guess I can pray it will be nicer under tension but SRAM derailleurs sure as hell don't have this play. The other thing that worries me about the RD is that the cable angle looks like it will wildly bend around as it runs through the gears. On a SRAM derailleur you get a nice arm that keeps a fairly straight cable line to the barrel adjuster. Nothing like that here. I'm honestly at a loss as to how this thing is supposed to shift effectively. Most of the excess weight is coming from the hanger knuckle IMO. It's about 50% wider than a SRAM force knuckle, and seems to have little milling for light-weighting. Sad
The FD body feels like cheap stamped steel. The built-in cable-housing stop and tensioner are nice nods to a "hidden cable" future though.
Basically, you get what you pay for. In my case, I paid significantly less than I would have for mechanical 105, so I guess I am pretty happy still.
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Any ideas when the price for these is going to come down? Seems like maybe they're still backed up on production?
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I have GRX hydraulics on my gravel bike and I was considering going with LTwoo, but now I'm thinking Juin Tech GT-Fs might be in my future for my road bike and keeping things mechanical.
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I haven't tried the Juin Tech, but the zrace br002 were a bit shitty. Having hydros now I wouldn't consider going back to mechanical.
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Pulled the trigger on the Ltwoo 1x11 gravel group. Should be here in a few weeks. I’ll give it a go as is, but if the rear mech is as woeful as some say, I’ll replace it with a Grx.
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I did some more inspection of the R9 11S carbon-pulley RD to figure out why it's so freaking heavy.
My notes:
-R9 (and I'm guessing RX) aluminum material is cast aluminum. You can see circular marks on the parts where the aluminum was poured into the cast. Dura-Ace, Ultegra, Force and Red RDs are machined from billet. Casting of course is much cheaper, but the reasons why it makes the derailleur heavy are threefold: 1) billet is almost always a stronger material per unit of weight than cast, so therefore the theoretical limit of how light the part can be is lower. 2) complex and thin features that save on material and weight are harder to cast, so the part is bulky in the first place to make casting possible. 3) It's not really possible to machine cast aluminum to make it lighter in a manufacturing setting. I do think I'm going to attempt doing some derailleur tuning with my dremel though anyways ;D
-Hanger screw appears to be chromed steel on the R9, while on the RX it looks like aluminum. This probably accounts for a lot of the weight savings on the RX
-Cable screw is not tapped into the material, but rather backed by a thick steel nut! I think there is a chance to save a gram or so there alone.
-Lastly, I've identified the play in parallelogram comes from the width of the parallelogram links being slightly smaller than the body, which accounts for the play in the parallelogram.
In general, this rear derailleur is designed to be dirt cheap. You are not getting anything that approaches Force or Ultegra quality with these.
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I did some more inspection of the R9 11S carbon-pulley RD to figure out why it's so freaking heavy.
My notes:
-R9 (and I'm guessing RX) aluminum material is cast aluminum. You can see circular marks on the parts where the aluminum was poured into the cast. Dura-Ace, Ultegra, Force and Red RDs are machined from billet. Casting of course is much cheaper, but the reasons why it makes the derailleur heavy are threefold: 1) billet is almost always a stronger material per unit of weight than cast, so therefore the theoretical limit of how light the part can be is lower. 2) complex and thin features that save on material and weight are harder to cast, so the part is bulky in the first place to make casting possible. 3) It's not really possible to machine cast aluminum to make it lighter in a manufacturing setting. I do think I'm going to attempt doing some derailleur tuning with my dremel though anyways ;D
-Hanger screw appears to be chromed steel on the R9, while on the RX it looks like aluminum. This probably accounts for a lot of the weight savings on the RX
-Cable screw is not tapped into the material, but rather backed by a thick steel nut! I think there is a chance to save a gram or so there alone.
-Lastly, I've identified the play in parallelogram comes from the width of the parallelogram links being slightly smaller than the body, which accounts for the play in the parallelogram.
In general, this rear derailleur is designed to be dirt cheap. You are not getting anything that approaches Force or Ultegra quality with these.
How much does it weigh? 105 R7000 is like 220g. Does it weigh more than that? If that's the case, I'd probably just use Shimano components.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKNcKwiH6v0&ab_channel=TraceVelo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKNcKwiH6v0&ab_channel=TraceVelo)
New Trace Velo covering the LTwoo 1x GRT hydraulic groupset. A bit concerning is that he crashed his bike and broke the left carbon shift lever. I've crash a bunch of times on my GRX 400 levers and they're still working strong. Maybe carbon isn't the best material for levers. I think I'll stick with my slightly heavier alloy drop shifters!
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKNcKwiH6v0&ab_channel=TraceVelo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKNcKwiH6v0&ab_channel=TraceVelo)
New Trace Velo covering the LTwoo 1x GRT hydraulic groupset. A bit concerning is that he crashed his bike and broke the left carbon shift lever. I've crash a bunch of times on my GRX 400 levers and they're still working strong. Maybe carbon isn't the best material for levers. I think I'll stick with my slightly heavier alloy drop shifters!
He went down pretty hard. If the lever didn't take a lot of the impact, something else might have snapped. Also that was really terrible riding. He has a tendency to turn his bars quite a lot rather than just leaning the bike side to side when he's out of the saddle, so I thought he'd go down before he did, and he turned the bars way too sharply on a loose, soft, cambered surface whilst still applying power when he did go down.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKNcKwiH6v0&ab_channel=TraceVelo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKNcKwiH6v0&ab_channel=TraceVelo)
New Trace Velo covering the LTwoo 1x GRT hydraulic groupset. A bit concerning is that he crashed his bike and broke the left carbon shift lever. I've crash a bunch of times on my GRX 400 levers and they're still working strong. Maybe carbon isn't the best material for levers. I think I'll stick with my slightly heavier alloy drop shifters!
I think the fact that shimano levers rotate relieves alot of the impact in a crash. The big lever on ltwoo is rigid and can't move laterally. And yeah...riding the loose dirt in the center is always a bad idea.
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How much does it weigh? 105 R7000 is like 220g. Does it weigh more than that? If that's the case, I'd probably just use Shimano components.
My R9 weighed in at 229. I think the RX quoted at 219, which I believe given that it's kitted with lighter parts like the B-hanger screw. I did the math on the system weight of the LTWOO RX vs Shimano 105 11s and the RX is supposedly ~50g lighter for brifters, derailleurs, and calipers.
Given what 11 speed 105 groupsets are going for, I would not pay more than $400 inc. shipping for the RX system. It also depends on availability, 105 group-sets typically force you to buy the crank, cassette, rotors, and chain in the bundle. By going with LTWOO, I was able to spec fancy rotors, power-meter crank, and cassette
It's a shame they don't sell the shifters separately. They are substantially lighter than Shimano 105. And I get the feeling that they are compatible with Shimano derailleurs since previous, identical-looking generations of the R9 were marketed as such.
In an ideal future, I would love to try: LTWOO shifters, |||PRO/ONIRII "XG" hope-knockoff calipers (96g), Shimano 105 front mech, Shimano ultegra/DA rear mech.
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Update after tearing the RD apart and doing some milling
The BIG source of weight penalty in these 11S R9 RDs is the derailleur hanger screw, or "B-axle". It looks like a functional knockoff/copy of the shimano ultegra-6700-series B-axle. Anyways as I mentioned earlier, it's solid steel. Stock weight is 20 grams for the screw alone. Im sure the aluminum screw specced on the RX is half the weight.
I was able to drill out out about 5 grams alone from the B-axle by driving an m4.5 drillbit down the centerline.
I also dremeled/filed out that chunky hanger knuckle and put an m8 hole in the faceplate of the parallelogram. It only yielded about 5 grams. While it's satisfying to see it all milled out, I gotta say it was not worth the time, effort, or worry involved in doing something that extreme.
All in all I got the RD weight down from 229 to 220g, for $0.
If you really want to effectively tune these R9 derailleurs to match the RX, I'd say replacing the b-axle with with an aluminum shimano replacement, and cable screw with alu or titanium would get you 10 grams. I think that's going to run you about $20-30USD
At that point, I think you might as well go to the Shimano 11-speed ultegra r8000 rear derailleur, which has been confirmed as compatible with LTWOO shifters in the component news thread, weighs a nice ~198g and can be found for ~$90USD.
I've done the numbers on weight and cost of what I call "super-weenie R9": LTWOO R9 hydro brifters and FD, Ultegra RD, and ONIRII XR calipers. Estimated weight coming in at 1125 grams and $553 (after shipping) if you buy the R9 gruppo from the LTWOO official store and add on an ultegra RD and XR calipers. This is in fact lighter than Ultegra R8020's quoted weight of 1132 grams for the same parts. LTWOO brifters are about the same weight as ultegra, so all of that weight savings is coming from the XR calipers.
For comparison, an ultegra disc kit with chain, crank, brifters, derailleurs, and cassette are about $800-1000USD online. To match that for "Super-weenie R9", throw in a $100 S-ROAD cassette, $178 racework crankset, $55 YBN chain and you're at $886. So "super-weenie R9" is not exactly saving you money. It *does* make sense if you have specific needs. For example I want a crank-based power meter with 167.5mm arms, and all of these cheap ultegra groupsets come with non-meter cranks and 172.6mm arms. So if you factor the cost of having to shelve and replace the crank, then starting with a crankless LTWOO kit starts to make more sense. Similarly, the Ultegra cassette is about 30-40g heavier than an S-ROAD cassette.
Update: just wanted to make a note of something I found disappointing about the R9s: the plastic shift levers are rivted on. There is no replacing them. If you have a bad hard shift and break them, you have to replace the whole lever. Talk about garbage design.
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Hey all- I know its a bit cheeky to make a 'how do I?' post my first post, so apologies in advance.
For those who have set these up and got a good bleed on the brakes....can you do a quick step by step?
I'm doing the following:
1)Standard bleed block in the caliper
2)Pad advance ("reach") grubscrew fully turned to the left
3)Attach 2 x syringes to the bleed ports on both lever and caliper, each with approx 10-12 mls of fluid.
4)Pushing from the caliper syringe until no air is seen at the lever syringe
5)Pushing at the lever syringe until no air is seen at the caliper syringe
6)"Flicking" the lever to remove any air bubbles at the lever
7)Disconnecting both syringes and reinserting the bleed port screws to close everything up
8)Removing the bleed block and reinstalling the pads, and the wheel
9)Pulling the lever in firmly 7 or 8 times
10)Turning the pad advance grubscrew 4 to 5 full turns clockwise (it falls out on turn number 7)
Doing the above is disappointing, as there's next to no braking power. Am I doing something wrong?
thx
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Did you try overbleeding them? (bleeding without the bleed block in place, so you're adding extra fluid)
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No, but thats a good idea. Thanks for posting.
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Quick update. I've managed to get a pretty good bleed in there now, and think I've got the way of it. I was looking at the air port, and wondering why they'd include that. Looking at the hood design, the hood and reservoir are quite prominent, and air could get trapped inside- hence the air port.
So what I did was something I've done in the past- use a work stand to rotate the bike around and remove any air. I alternated between having the brake bleed port high, and then the lever high. I kept alternating these, and bleeding at the same time. Eventually all the air came out.
BTW, the pad adjust grubscrew falls out the back if you exceed 7 full turns clockwise. It's easy to reinstall though, but the lever needs removed to do so. If you do this then the lever return spring needs to be in the right spot to work right; all I do is lift it up a bit, push the lever against the front face of the hood, and slowly side it down while pushing gently forwards. This keeps the spring in place, and evenmtually it rests against the flat part above the pivot.
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I just saw this version of the Ltwoo hydraulic shifters being sold with alloy shift levers? I didn't see these on the official Ltwoo AliEx store either:
GR9 hydraulic:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804911363509.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804911363509.html)
R9 hydraulic:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804911363509.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804911363509.html)
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I just saw this version of the Ltwoo hydraulic shifters being sold with alloy shift levers? I didn't see these on the official Ltwoo AliEx store either:
GR9 hydraulic:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804911363509.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804911363509.html)
R9 hydraulic:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804911363509.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804911363509.html)
The launch from L-twoo is supposed to be 11s (alloy and carbon version) and 12s carbon only. The 11s alloy was supposed to be the cheapest entry to hydraulic disc. Not bad in pricing.
But didn't know they offer 12s with Aluminum too? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005035663529.html that is a better deal.
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The launch from L-twoo is supposed to be 11s (alloy and carbon version) and 12s carbon only. The 11s alloy was supposed to be the cheapest entry to hydraulic disc. Not bad in pricing.
But didn't know they offer 12s with Aluminum too? https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005035663529.html that is a better deal.
I saw that as well, but I forgot to link it. I guess snapping carbon levers might be an issue, hence the alloy option!
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I assume it's a well-needed cost cutting measure. The carbon versions are too high-priced to compete with established brands, and buyers looking for a budget option would rather save €70 than pay more for a negligible weight saving. I sure would.
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If I had known an alloy version was coming, I definitely would've waited. Especially after seeing Luke's break after one fall.
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If I had known an alloy version was coming, I definitely would've waited. Especially after seeing Luke's break after one fall.
I also wish they'd start selling the hydraulic components separately, I don't really need the derailleurs. Ltwoo stuff works with the Shimano 11/12 speed pull ratio.
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I also wish they'd start selling the hydraulic components separately, I don't really need the derailleurs. Ltwoo stuff works with the Shimano 11/12 speed pull ratio.
Has anyone confirmed if LTWOO left-side shifters are compatible with Shimano's front derailleurs?
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Has anyone confirmed if LTWOO left-side shifters are compatible with Shimano's front derailleurs?
I don't see why not? Even the Sensah Empire left shifter works with Shimano FDs.
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I also wish they'd start selling the hydraulic components separately, I don't really need the derailleurs. Ltwoo stuff works with the Shimano 11/12 speed pull ratio.
https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005005324466674.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_saleItems.8148356.3.7f132a4bqoobxk&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21CAD%21C%24%20412.25%21C%24%20259.72%21%21%21%21%21%40211b88ec16789783347482394e1c45%2112000032629952125%21sh&gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite
This seller has them separately. There is also a 10sp version now, about 100CAD cheaper than 12sp.
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Wow. I really should’ve waited a few more weeks. More options will for sure bring prices down.
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https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005005324466674.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_saleItems.8148356.3.7f132a4bqoobxk&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21CAD%21C%24%20412.25%21C%24%20259.72%21%21%21%21%21%40211b88ec16789783347482394e1c45%2112000032629952125%21sh&gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite
This seller has them separately. There is also a 10sp version now, about 100CAD cheaper than 12sp.
Nice! Though I'm kicking myself for not buying used Shimano R7020 shifters that were selling for $200 USD locally. My buddy bought it for that price!
Maybe I'll wait for the next AliEx sales event to drive these prices down even further. Also I'm fine with alloy, I'll just cut the weight from my gut or carry less water! lol
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I see the electronic groupsets are about to become a thing :)
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This seller has started to sell the groupsets with the Zrace XG brakes instead of the Lt-woo ones. It's interesting that the seller call themselves the Lt-woo official store, however.
One could have a pretty light groupo for cheap..
Prices are also dropping. Not only that, but the shipping has as well, at least in Canada. Used to be around 50 CAD, now it's free.
Here's the link. Kinda long but I'm not sure how to shorten it. Sorry.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005385555775.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.8.22e1d7dfrfkZ3R&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40050.281175.0&scm_id=1007.40050.281175.0&scm-url=1007.40050.281175.0&pvid=1bf7f486-3de1-4d6f-9a7f-d2579f33918a&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40050.281175.0,pvid:1bf7f486-3de1-4d6f-9a7f-d2579f33918a,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238110%231995&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000032839479096%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%2230050%22%7D&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21CAD%21617.98%21432.58%21%21%21%21%21%40210312cc16804722848118866e46d0%2112000032839479096%21rec%21CA%214261068451
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This seller has started to sell the groupsets with the Zrace XG brakes instead of the Lt-woo ones. It's interesting that the seller call themselves the Lt-woo official store, however.
One could have a pretty light groupo for cheap..
Prices are also dropping. Not only that, but the shipping has as well, at least in Canada. Used to be around 50 CAD, now it's free.
Here's the link. Kinda long but I'm not sure how to shorten it. Sorry.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005385555775.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000014.8.22e1d7dfrfkZ3R&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40050.281175.0&scm_id=1007.40050.281175.0&scm-url=1007.40050.281175.0&pvid=1bf7f486-3de1-4d6f-9a7f-d2579f33918a&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40050.281175.0,pvid:1bf7f486-3de1-4d6f-9a7f-d2579f33918a,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238110%231995&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000032839479096%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%2230050%22%7D&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21CAD%21617.98%21432.58%21%21%21%21%21%40210312cc16804722848118866e46d0%2112000032839479096%21rec%21CA%214261068451
The shorten link is https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005385555775.html
Is the XG a true flat mount brake? I have read the LTwoo caliper bolt spacing isn't a true flat mount and hence the bag of brackets?
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Yes the xg are flat mount. I have them already. They are 100g lighter than the l twoo calipers with 160 rotors. With 160/140 I'd say about 120g lighter. You still need the bracket for front caliper with xg and other flat mount models. They use the same pad size. I think they put in the l03a copied pads on the xg.
I haven't swapped them yet. Had a wicked gravel race yesterday and wasn't going to chance not bleeding them fully during the swap.
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Quoting from 318Bike https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005385673438.html
In order to avoid SHIMANO's patent, LTWOO's Hydraulic Disc Brake Caliper uses a 70mm spacing mounting seat, and then installs it through an adapter, so that not only the Caliper is heavy, but the adapter is also very heavy, and the most important thing is that for some frames It is still not compatible, so we replaced the Flat Mount Caliper of ZRACE XG, so that the whole set can reduce weight 120g! and can be compatible with all flat mount frames and Forks.
Prices is definitely dropping.... 11s https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005385754066.html
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Is there a listing for only hydraulic shifters? I tried and couldn't find one for hydros. There are plenty for mechanical/rim brakes though.
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Is there a listing for only hydraulic shifters? I tried and couldn't find one for hydros. There are plenty for mechanical/rim brakes though.
Not that I've seen. That's why I ordered the alloy groupset during the anniversary sale for almost $200 USD. Though I'm bummed it didn't come with the ZRace hydraulic calipers. 120g savings is like carrying a spare bike stem in your pocket! I'm not a hardcore weight weenie, but I don't like carrying pointless weight.
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Not that I've seen. That's why I ordered the alloy groupset during the anniversary sale for almost $200 USD. Though I'm bummed it didn't come with the ZRace hydraulic calipers. 120g savings is like carrying a spare bike stem in your pocket! I'm not a hardcore weight weenie, but I don't like carrying pointless weight.
That was a good price. A while ago I was sitting on 105 hydro shifters that I sold because I don't like to keep parts lying around for long and now that I need them back, I am not finding anything reasonably priced anywhere in the used markets. Bummer :| So decided to look into Ltwoo/Sensah but no one sells just the shifters. Any idea if olives, barbs and oil pressure exerted by LTwoo shifters are same as needed by Shimano 105/Ultegra hydraulic calipers?
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I'd use the hose type 1st ment for the caliper. So if the calipers were designed for bh90 first try those. If you don't like how they feel or the calipers don't move correctly install bh59 hoses.
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I'd use the hose type 1st ment for the caliper. So if the calipers were designed for bh90 first try those. If you don't like how they feel or the calipers don't move correctly install bh59 hoses.
They're the same as 105. I know this as I swapped the 105 shifters and brakes for the L-Twoo models, and keep the 105 hoses, barbs and olives.
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2x11 R9:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199439314.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199439314.html)
1x11 GR9:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199325832.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199325832.html)
2x12 RX:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199358686.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199358686.html)
They're finally selling the Ltwoo shifters w/ ZRace hydraulic calipers without the derailleurs. Prices are still a bit high since the full groupset was selling for about $200 alloy and $260 carbon at the last Anniversary sale. Hopefully for the next AliEx sale they should sell for much less. 12 speed still seems to be selling for quite more.
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That Alloy R9 lever + XG caliper bundle is the one to get in my eyes
L-TWOO carbon shift levers have a history of breaking and the problem isn't localised to the Hydro, even the Rim brifters have been broken before
The problem comes down to the shifting mechanism requiring way too much force to actuate, with that initial shift being the hardest and getting progressively lighter as you multi-shift. I don't think they'll ever meaningfully revise this so just opt for alloy which should hold up better than carbon blades.
As for the derailleurs, now that you can get just the levers it's a no-brainer to use Shimano. 105 derailleurs are pretty cheap and flawless while the L-TWOO units are fundamentally just slightly improved versions of the original R7. Slapping a carbon cage on it is like putting lipstick on a pig in my eyes, sure it'll be lighter but the function will still be the same. I'll also choose 11s R9 over 12s RX because the 11 speeds doesn't require as tight in tolerances to shift well. For 12 speeds to shift nicely you should use R7100 Hyperglide chain and cassette at a minimum.
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Both 11s and 12s available in carbon+alloy blades?
Why are the calipers branded ZRace? Are they the same with another logo and different pads? They look pretty good but they seem to have a philips screw for the pads. Which is still an improvement over Shimano's flatheads. It's a minor detail but it pisses me off that those still exist.
I know the shifters have the same pull ratio as shimano, does that mean you could use GRX mechs even for 12s? Has anyone tried pushing the LTWOO rear mech capacity? Rated for 32T is pretty awful especially for gravel.
Edit: I double checked and they are rated for 36T :)
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Both 11s and 12s available in carbon+alloy blades?
Why are the calipers branded ZRace? Are they the same with another logo and different pads? They look pretty good but they seem to have a philips screw for the pads. Which is still an improvement over Shimano's flatheads. It's a minor detail but it pisses me off that those still exist.
I know the shifters have the same pull ratio as shimano, does that mean you could use GRX mechs even for 12s? Has anyone tried pushing the LTWOO rear mech capacity? Rated for 32T is pretty awful especially for gravel.
Edit: I double checked and they are rated for 36T :)
The listing I see from Ltwoo official store explains the reason for using the Zrace calipers. Basically more compatibility and weight savings.
"Notice
In order to avoid SHIMANO's patent, LTWOO's Hydraulic Disc Brake Caliper uses a 70mm spacing mounting seat, and then installs it through an adapter, so that not only the Caliper is heavy, but the adapter is also very heavy, and the most important thing is that for some frames It is still not compatible, so we replaced the Flat Mount Caliper of ZRACE XG, so that the whole set can reduce weight 120g! and can be compatible with all flat mount frames and Forks.
And it can be installed on the frame of Post Mount and IS Mount through ZRACE's Flat to Post / IS Adapter."
No idea if 12s is compatible. Ltwoo's gravel rear mech is rated for up to 50t I believe.
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2x11 R9:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199439314.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199439314.html)
1x11 GR9:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199325832.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199325832.html)
2x12 RX:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199358686.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805199358686.html)
They're finally selling the Ltwoo shifters w/ ZRace hydraulic calipers without the derailleurs. Prices are still a bit high since the full groupset was selling for about $200 alloy and $260 carbon at the last Anniversary sale. Hopefully for the next AliEx sale they should sell for much less. 12 speed still seems to be selling for quite more.
As an R9-carbon earlyish adopter, I believe buying a set of these + an ultegra r8000 F/R derailleur set is THE move. I paid ~425USD for my R9 set, plus $45 for the ZRace caliers, plus ~$100 for ultegra derailleurs. I would have immediately jumped at this bundle deal instead if it had been available 2 months ago.
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As an R9-carbon earlyish adopter, I believe buying a set of these + an ultegra r8000 F/R derailleur set is THE move. I paid ~425USD for my R9 set, plus $45 for the ZRace caliers, plus ~$100 for ultegra derailleurs. I would have immediately jumped at this bundle deal instead if it had been available 2 months ago.
Do their rim brake shifters still have plastic arms + internals as seen in Trace Velo video? How is the shifting? Debating between Sensah Team Pro and Ltwoo R9 shifters
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Do their rim brake shifters still have plastic arms + internals as seen in Trace Velo video? How is the shifting? Debating between Sensah Team Pro and Ltwoo R9 shifters
Yes, the shift lever arms on the R9 are plastic. To boot, they are riveted in, making them irreplaceable. In terms of weight, this doesn't actually change anything, and I actually think the shift smoothness/crispness is decent, despite me running full-internal routing on the shift cables.
I'm not sure what you mean with the internals being plastic--AFAIK all the mechanical shifting bits are stamped steel, and the brake hydraulic housing (edit: I meant hydraulic piston assembly) is machined metal. Really, you get what you pay for, and with the LTWOO stuff you definitely are trading quality in for weight.
I think it's important to do the cost analysis--put all the parts, weights, and their costs in a spreadsheet, and compare. At the time I bought my stuff, ultegra groupsets were scarce, and I couldn't find them as a set without the cranks, which was important to me since I needed a crank-based power meter. When I ran the math, the R9 groupset was going to be less than half the price of going to Ultegra R8000 hydraulic for comparable weight. This math can change even more dramatically if you compare bundle deals, You can get a full Ultegra build kit for ~$1000USD, which is about exactly what I spent on my R9 groupset + power meter crank + ybn chain + sroad cassette + onirii rotors + bottom bracket.
In the short months since, it seems market pressures have eased dramatically and you can now easily find parted-out ultegra groupsets on AE for pretty cheap. For example, you can easily find R8020 brifters+calipers for $500 and a derailleur set for $120USD. At that point, the LTWOO R9 Carbon+ZRACE brifter set is only saving you ~$200, and I really do believe that Ultegra is bringing $200 worth of added value in terms of quality.
So in summary, I really think the LTWOO R9 set should be reserved for aggressively minimizing costs, and it will do that job well. If you can afford the extra $200 though, I would spring for the Ultegra set
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I know the shifters have the same pull ratio as shimano, does that mean you could use GRX mechs even for 12s?
I did an experiment running a 12 speed chain with a stock 105 RD. One issue you might encounter is that the jockey wheels might need to be swapped out in order to accommodate the slightly thinner 12 speed chain. You could swap them out for 12 speed compatible jockey wheels instead. Though I did the same experiment with a GRX 812 RD and the jockey wheels cleared a 12 speed chain just fine, so it could be dependent on RD and even the chain you use.
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Yes, the shift lever arms on the R9 are plastic. To boot, they are riveted in, making them irreplaceable. In terms of weight, this doesn't actually change anything, and I actually think the shift smoothness/crispness is decent, despite me running full-internal routing on the shift cables.
I'm not sure what you mean with the internals being plastic--AFAIK all the mechanical shifting bits are stamped steel, and the brake hydraulic housing is machined metal. Really, you get what you pay for, and with the LTWOO stuff you definitely are trading quality in for weight.
I think it's important to do the cost analysis--put all the parts, weights, and their costs in a spreadsheet, and compare. At the time I bought my stuff, ultegra groupsets were scarce, and I couldn't find them as a set without the cranks, which was important to me since I needed a crank-based power meter. When I ran the math, the R9 groupset was going to be less than half the price of going to Ultegra R8000 hydraulic for comparable weight. This math can change even more dramatically if you compare bundle deals, You can get a full Ultegra build kit for ~$1000USD, which is about exactly what I spent on my R9 groupset + power meter crank + ybn chain + sroad cassette + onirii rotors + bottom bracket.
In the short months since, it seems market pressures have eased dramatically and you can now easily find parted-out ultegra groupsets on AE for pretty cheap. For example, you can easily find R8020 brifters+calipers for $500 and a derailleur set for $120USD. At that point, the LTWOO R9 Carbon+ZRACE brifter set is only saving you ~$200, and I really do believe that Ultegra is bringing $200 worth of added value in terms of quality.
So in summary, I really think the LTWOO R9 set should be reserved for aggressively minimizing costs, and it will do that job well. If you can afford the extra $200 though, I would spring for the Ultegra set
Ah, sorry for the confusion, IIRC right in Trace Velo video it was noted that one of piwces under the levers were made out of plastic and he was concerned that it may break during shifting under load.
I do agree with your point regarding value. To be fair, the only groupset parts that I am considering getting from China are cranks (not a fan of Shimano cranks, Sram cranks are too confusing eith their different standards, Campagnolo are straight rubbish, other cranks like FSA are confusing too) and shifters
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...Campagnolo are straight rubbish...
I have one and I wouldn't say it is rubbish. What did you experience that badly ?
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...(not a fan of Shimano cranks, Sram cranks are too confusing eith their different standards, Campagnolo are straight rubbish, other cranks like FSA are confusing too) and shifters...
How can a crank set be "confusing" All they are is a LH, RH crank arm, an axle and a bottom bracket. Yes there are 5-6 current BB widths, and sizes, but that is specified by the frame manufacturer and what type BB and width they require, when you purchase the crank set that fit your frame.
(I have become a fan of Race Face in the past 2 years because they have many flexible configurations and combinations of their cranks, I can purchase about any combination of their cranks to fit whatever bike I am building.)
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Ah, sorry for the confusion, IIRC right in Trace Velo video it was noted that one of piwces under the levers were made out of plastic and he was concerned that it may break during shifting under load.
The fact that the levers are completely plastic and riveted in is worrisome for me. Francis Cade on youtube broke his left side shift lever (the carbon variety, no less!) on his first upshift. So they are indeed pretty fragile compared to western-brands' levers. But not so fragile that they are unusable, they just have a lower upper threshold on load; you have to make sure you have good cable routing and baby them on loaded shifts.
Like I said, you get what you pay for. LTWOO is not doing anything magical or nice like taking a smaller margin compared to Shimano. You are very much trading quality for price while preserving low-weight.
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I'm currently traveling right now, but when I return I plan to install my R9 alloy hydraulic shifters with my 105/Ultegra RD/FD. On initial inspection, both the brake and shift levers seem to be made of alloy. I think this will be the version to get if durability is a concern.
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I just got my alloy r9. Shift lever is definitely plastic, but looked metal on initial glance. One thing to watch out for when shifting before putting tension on the cable is the little cable ends getting bent the wrong way in the housing. Mine came a bit curved the wrong way and wouldn't shift. Can't wait to mount it
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I have one and I wouldn't say it is rubbish. What did you experience that badly ?
I just don't understand why would they use a two piece spindle instead of one piece. They just made it more complicated, more expensive to manufacture for no good reason.
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I just don't understand why would they use a two piece spindle instead of one piece. They just made it more complicated, more expensive to manufacture for no good reason.
Bearings are pressed on the spindle.
A setup that ensures a proper alignment compared to BB cups that sit in general in poorly machined and/or not aligned frames.
The load is then spread more evenly on the two bearings.
Making them live longer.
In the industry, this is an assembly when more precision is required, and to handle better both radial and axial load.
A crankset is always in two pieces anyway.
On others cranksets, on the junction between the crank arm and the spindle gets an orthogonal and heavy load, while here the arms and half spindles are one piece.
Which in theory ends stiffer, if we can ever feel it with our tiny hundreds watts capable legs :D
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Finally got the 1x11 GR9 installed, but I think I have a faulty shifter. Can’t get the indexing right and it seems to miss shifts.
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Finally got the 1x11 GR9 installed, but I think I have a faulty shifter. Can’t get the indexing right and it seems to miss shifts.
Did you pull the cable tightly all the way through the shift cable housing? That can sometimes cause laggy indexing from the shifters.
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Did you pull the cable tightly all the way through the shift cable housing? That can sometimes cause laggy indexing from the shifters.
Disclaimer: I have a local bike mechanic working on it for me.
He tried with with a shimano shifter and rear mech worked perfectly. So it’s definitely something shifter wise. He’s going to be taking a look under the hood (pun intended) to see if there’s a simple solution tomorrow morning.
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Disclaimer: I have a local bike mechanic working on it for me.
He tried with with a shimano shifter and rear mech worked perfectly. So it’s definitely something shifter wise. He’s going to be taking a look under the hood (pun intended) to see if there’s a simple solution tomorrow morning.
I just checked my uninstalled hydraulic 2x R9 shifters and they are ridiculously stiff. There's a possibility the shift cable might be jammed on your GR9 shifter. I think it's a good idea to actuate the shift lever a few times through the 11/12 speed range before installing to loosen the mechanism. I'm really surprised just how stiff it feels as well. I have the original mechanical (non-hydraulic) GR9 shifters, and the shift lever has a very light mechanical touch similar to Shimano.
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Isn't it possible to slacken the shifting tension by an adjuster bolt? I'm sure Trace Velo pointed that out on YT.
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1) check that the cable is routed correctly, mine was not.
2) there is a screw, if I remember correctly it is on the side of the clamp / the one that faces the handlebar, to adjust the tightness. Maybe yours is too loose / tight.
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Isn't it possible to slacken the shifting tension by an adjuster bolt? I'm sure Trace Velo pointed that out on YT.
I found the screw and adjusted mine, still feels clanky versus clicky compared to the non-hydraulic LTwoo shifters. I'm beginning to think I should just sell my LTwoo hydraulic shifters. I'm actually pretty happy with my current Juin Tech F1 brake setup with 105 shifters for road.
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I found the screw and adjusted mine, still feels clanky versus clicky compared to the non-hydraulic LTwoo shifters. I'm beginning to think I should just sell my LTwoo hydraulic shifters. I'm actually pretty happy with my current Juin Tech F1 brake setup with 105 shifters for road.
Could you show me a pic of the screw?
Lots of folks seem happy with theirs. Worst case scenario, I might just have a dud on my hands. Best case scenario, it was routed poorly from factory and needs a little extra work. Fingers crossed.
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I found the screw and adjusted mine, still feels clanky versus clicky compared to the non-hydraulic LTwoo shifters. I'm beginning to think I should just sell my LTwoo hydraulic shifters. I'm actually pretty happy with my current Juin Tech F1 brake setup with 105 shifters for road.
:D Was just thinking of buying some for my gravel bike as I'm not totally happy with my current setup...
No pressure but do let me know if you decide to sell ;D
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:D Was just thinking of buying some for my gravel bike as I'm not totally happy with my current setup...
No pressure but do let me know if you decide to sell ;D
I'll think about it. Part of me is just lazy to bleed the brakes, hence why I haven't done the install yet! ;D
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I'll think about it. Part of me is just lazy to bleed the brakes, hence why I haven't done the install yet! ;D
So this might sound like a bodge, but I actually have gotten away with bleeding using just the cone at the top. None of this syringe bleeding business that is demonstrated in the videos. I have gotten effective bleeds just by hooking everything up, putting a bleed cone at the top with oil, and squeezing the brakes a few times until the bubbles stop coming out. It takes a couple of sessions to get to 100% bled, but you get completely usable brakes after the first session, and then the few bubbles trapped in the caliper come up after a couple of shakedown rides. SUPER easy.
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I have gotten effective bleeds just by hooking everything up, putting a bleed cone at the top with oil, and squeezing the brakes a few times until the bubbles stop coming out. It takes a couple of sessions to get to 100% bled, but you get completely usable brakes after the first session, and then the few bubbles trapped in the caliper come up after a couple of shakedown rides. SUPER easy.
This is the way. To corroborate, I was struggling with MTB style brakes for quite some time. Started with super budget Tektros, then to TRP Slate and finally to Shimano XT. After bleeding each of these for may be 6-7 times back to back, I couldn’t get the bite that I wanted. Just mushy mess. And then finally this tutorial helped - a technique called bubble bleed:
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/tech-spotlight-5-minute-bubble-bleed-2014.html
5 minutes and voila, my brakes feel so good. Don’t forget to take the lever off of handlebar and tap them with a rubber mallet. And of course the bleed port at the highest position possible. Then rotate the lever without spilling the oil (if there is oil in the cup). This was the only way I could get that last holdout air from the reservoir. When it worked I almost felt silly.
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So this might sound like a bodge, but I actually have gotten away with bleeding using just the cone at the top. None of this syringe bleeding business that is demonstrated in the videos. I have gotten effective bleeds just by hooking everything up, putting a bleed cone at the top with oil, and squeezing the brakes a few times until the bubbles stop coming out. It takes a couple of sessions to get to 100% bled, but you get completely usable brakes after the first session, and then the few bubbles trapped in the caliper come up after a couple of shakedown rides. SUPER easy.
I've used this method to get rid of excess air bubbles, but never for the full bleed. I'll definitely give it a try.
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I tried to bleed /fill my GRX brakes this way,but since the brifters were not pre-filled this did not work. It didn't matter how long I kept trying. Only the syringe on the caliper worked.
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So this might sound like a bodge, but I actually have gotten away with bleeding using just the cone at the top. None of this syringe bleeding business that is demonstrated in the videos. I have gotten effective bleeds just by hooking everything up, putting a bleed cone at the top with oil, and squeezing the brakes a few times until the bubbles stop coming out. It takes a couple of sessions to get to 100% bled, but you get completely usable brakes after the first session, and then the few bubbles trapped in the caliper come up after a couple of shakedown rides. SUPER easy.
You don't even open the bleed nut on the caliper? Is this suitable when you might need to top up some oil? You just open the shifter bleed port, screw the funnel, put some mineral oil and squeeze for a while?
I'm probably going to do my first bleed next week on my new build and every video is different. GCN and RoJ's seem the easiest/most intuitive
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You don't even open the bleed nut on the caliper? Is this suitable when you might need to top up some oil? You just open the shifter bleed port, screw the funnel, put some mineral oil and squeeze for a while?
I'm probably going to do my first bleed next week on my new build and every video is different. GCN and RoJ's seem the easiest/most intuitive
Nope, just open the oil port on the brifter, cone on with oil, squeeze lever. As I see it, putting the syringe at the bottom is primarily for flushing old fluid out, which is important since mineral oil dissolves water. But for the the bleed itself, syringe comes out, caliper gets sealed back up, and I just squeeze the lever with the cone on top.
For topping up oil, I suggest putting on the cone with oil and squeezing the levers once or twice with no bleed block in place. The LTWOO hydro systems are known to have issues getting full volume in the first place, leading to too much lever throw. This is the protocol LTWOO recommended to the China Cycling YT channel to address the issue.
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This is the way. To corroborate, I was struggling with MTB style brakes for quite some time. Started with super budget Tektros, then to TRP Slate and finally to Shimano XT. After bleeding each of these for may be 6-7 times back to back, I couldn’t get the bite that I wanted. Just mushy mess. And then finally this tutorial helped - a technique called bubble bleed:
https://m.pinkbike.com/news/tech-spotlight-5-minute-bubble-bleed-2014.html
5 minutes and voila, my brakes feel so good. Don’t forget to take the lever off of handlebar and tap them with a rubber mallet. And of course the bleed port at the highest position possible. Then rotate the lever without spilling the oil (if there is oil in the cup). This was the only way I could get that last holdout air from the reservoir. When it worked I almost felt silly.
My usual go-to, but for me anyway this worked ok on the front but no joy on the rear.
Has anyone any idea what the 'air' port is used for as yet?
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I sent videos of my GR9 group with Ltwoo shifter vs a shimano shifter to both 80 Designer Store (who I bought from) and Ltwoo official store on Ali. Ltwoo seemed really interested in making sure vendors provide after sales support.
After watching the videos they concluded it is a bad shifter and will be sending me a new one. I just cover the $10 shipping fee. I’m ok with that. I’ve had stateside warranties that were worse.
I guess I’ll just have to ride my mtb til the new shifter gets here.
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Ltwoo seemed really interested in making sure vendors provide after sales support.
After watching the videos they concluded it is a bad shifter and will be sending me a new one. I just cover the $10 shipping fee. I’m ok with that. I’ve had stateside warranties that were worse.
Good to know the company making efforts on warranty which traditionally has been assumed as non existent for goods from China. Glad it is working out.
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Good to know the company making efforts on warranty which traditionally has been assumed as non existent for goods from China. Glad it is working out.
Good news.
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Finally got the 1x11 GR9 installed, but I think I have a faulty shifter. Can’t get the indexing right and it seems to miss shifts.
If you detach the cable from the derailleur, give some tension with your hand on the cable, and try to shift.
Is the cable moving freely in both directions(shift/unshift) ?
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If you detach the cable from the derailleur, give some tension with your hand on the cable, and try to shift.
Is the cable moving freely in both directions(shift/unshift) ?
Can’t tell you. Bike is at the shop. Mechanic was pretty thorough in trouble shooting. Do you have a theory on what could be wrong with it?
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More variations of hydraulic LTwoo groupsets are starting to drop on AliExpress. Now there's GR7 1x10 hydraulics now available.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805279623183.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805279623183.html)
Though you can get GRX 400 shifters/calipers for not much more:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805058833940.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805058833940.html)
I really need a better side hobby instead of surfing AliExpress late at night! Lol
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Has anyone tried combining LTWOO Brifters with a GRX rear derailleur? Since the cable pull seems to be compatible. Could an 11sp GRX RD even be used to shift a 12sp cassette with LTWOO?
That’d be nice. I’m looking to build up a gravel bike for my girlfriend. I’m eyeing LTWOO for the build. But not convinced of it’s reliability and shifting quality.
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Has anyone tried combining LTWOO Brifters with a GRX rear derailleur? Since the cable pull seems to be compatible. Could an 11sp GRX RD even be used to shift a 12sp cassette with LTWOO?
That’d be nice. I’m looking to build up a gravel bike for my girlfriend. I’m eyeing LTWOO for the build. But not convinced of it’s reliability and shifting quality.
It should work. I was able to get mechanical GR9 shifters to work with a GRX400 RD. I'm in the process of setting up my R9 alloy hydraulic shifters paired with my 105 and Ultegra RD/FD, I should be done today and I can report back how they work.
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It should work. I was able to get mechanical GR9 shifters to work with a GRX400 RD. I'm in the process of setting up my R9 alloy hydraulic shifters paired with my 105 and Ultegra RD/FD, I should be done today and I can report back how they work.
I just confirmed that the 2x11 hydro R9 shifters index perfectly with my Shimano 105 RD. I was about to setup the FD as well, but I hit a snag on my build. My barb tool broke partway while setting up my left hydraulic shifter and the hammering method doesn't seem to work. I have another tool on the way so I can finish the build.
One more side note, the alloy levers overall are nice, but the fact LTwoo is using a plastic downshift lever is probably the biggest weakness of the design. I've dialed down the shift tension and the plastic seems sturdy enough, but compared to my GRX 400 shifters on my gravel bike it is mostly metal with only plastic on the paddle. In fact if Sensah releases hydraulic versions of their shifters, I'd probably go that direction instead. Less parts to worry about.
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...
A crankset is always in two pieces anyway.
On others cranksets, on the junction between the crank arm and the spindle gets an orthogonal and heavy load, while here the arms and half spindles are one piece.
Which in theory ends stiffer, if we can ever feel it with our tiny hundreds watts capable legs :D
No rules without exceptions :D
Look makes a onepice crank https://www.lookcycle.com/se-en/products/components/zed-2 and many/all? of the "Old school" forged steel cranks were one piece.
But most of the stuff we kan buy today is probably split in at least two pieces.
Edit
*Hmm, bad case of thread digging on my side :-[
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First LTWOO ERX groupsets showing up on Aliexpress:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EyfCQqf
At least from my location.
705 EUR for brifters, derailleurs and calipers is not competitive IMO.
At least in Germany, 105 Di2 can be had heavily discounted. Probably because of the overall crisis in the bike industry ATM.
For 500 more you get Di2 including cranks, cassette, chain and rotors.
If I need to add all that in similar quality to LTWOO ERX it’s still going to be cheaper, but the difference will probably be max 300 EUR.
I’d probably give it a pass.
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First LTWOO ERX groupsets showing up on Aliexpress:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EyfCQqf
At least from my location.
705 EUR for brifters, derailleurs and calipers is not competitive IMO.
At least in Germany, 105 Di2 can be had heavily discounted. Probably because of the overall crisis in the bike industry ATM.
For 500 more you get Di2 including cranks, cassette, chain and rotors.
If I need to add all that in similar quality to LTWOO ERX it’s still going to be cheaper, but the difference will probably be max 300 EUR.
I’d probably give it a pass.
I imagine the price will drop over time. Just like it did with the hydro groups.
When Sensah release their hydro/electronic groups I think we’ll see prices drop dramatically.
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I just confirmed that the 2x11 hydro R9 shifters index perfectly with my Shimano 105 RD. I was about to setup the FD as well, but I hit a snag on my build. My barb tool broke partway while setting up my left hydraulic shifter and the hammering method doesn't seem to work. I have another tool on the way so I can finish the build.
One more side note, the alloy levers overall are nice, but the fact LTwoo is using a plastic downshift lever is probably the biggest weakness of the design. I've dialed down the shift tension and the plastic seems sturdy enough, but compared to my GRX 400 shifters on my gravel bike it is mostly metal with only plastic on the paddle. In fact if Sensah releases hydraulic versions of their shifters, I'd probably go that direction instead. Less parts to worry about.
I've decided to scrap using the LTwoo hydraulic R9 shifters on my road bike. I hit quite a few issues that have me writing-off ever using Ltwoo shifters again. First the clamping bolt on the levers is extremely hard to access and is very finicky on lever placement. Also the left shifter for me was giving me weak lever pull, causing me all sorts of problems on FD adjustment. It probably was due to my internal cable routing on my drop bars, but that wasn't an issue on my 105 shifters. Overall LTwoo engineering seem annoyingly convoluted on multiple fronts.
I just ended up taking everything apart. I'll probably salvage the shifters and use them on my gravel bike and use them in 1x configuration instead.
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Do the LTWOO hydro shifters work with Shimano calipers? Would make “upgrading” a little simpler for the electronic set. They could sell just the necessary electronic bits (shifters, derailleurs, battery) and use the rest (cranks, calipers, chain) from your existing group.
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Do the LTWOO hydro shifters work with Shimano calipers? Would make “upgrading” a little simpler for the electronic set. They could sell just the necessary electronic bits (shifters, derailleurs, battery) and use the rest (cranks, calipers, chain) from your existing group.
Should work, but I don't want to deal with the LTwoo stuff again. I think I'll stick to either Shimano or Sensah for the budget stuff, they feel better designed in my opinion. Also the LTwoo R9 hydro shifters have a really annoying way of inserting the shift cabling, a lot of unnecessary convoluted design choices. The big annoyance was just accessing the clamping bolt, the rubber hoods are so difficult to move out of the way, you need a 5mm hex wrench with a rounded bit head just to access the clamp bolt properly. Plus for some weird reason even after clamping one of the shifters, it wouldn't properly secure. My left shifter would still wiggle even with a bit of tape between the clamp and bar. I'm thinking they probably would fit better on alloy bars instead. The right shifter and indexing the RD was alright, but all my problems were with the left shifter and FD adjustments. Maybe my left shifter is faulty, I'm not sure.
The only positive thing I can say is the LTwoo hydro brake calipers are actually pretty good with ample spacing with the brake pads. I think I'll salvage those and pair them up with some hydraulic Shimano shifters down the road.
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Yikes. Just got my replacement GR9 shifter today and hoping for a less stressful experience.
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Just out of interest/if anyone is crazy to do it long term....
I have installed the l-twoo gr9 rear derailleur with sensah grx shifters and it works fine.
Setting it up reminds me how much i dislike the sensah shifters, the lever throw is faaaaaaar too long on them for my small hands. I find it so long its really difficult to get it shift accurately in the stand and get it indexed perfectly. Im looking forward to installing the rest of the l-twoo groupset and comparing.
Another thing i like about the l-twoo derailleur is that it looks like a premium product and the silver accents match my chrome frame perfectly.
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Just out of interest/if anyone is crazy to do it long term....
I have installed the l-twoo gr9 rear derailleur with sensah grx shifters and it works fine.
Setting it up reminds me how much i dislike the sensah shifters, the lever throw is faaaaaaar too long on them for my small hands. I find it so long its really difficult to get it shift accurately in the stand and get it indexed perfectly. Im looking forward to installing the rest of the l-twoo groupset and comparing.
Another thing i like about the l-twoo derailleur is that it looks like a premium product and the silver accents match my chrome frame perfectly.
I'm running Sensah Team Pro shifters which are the Shimano compatible and shifter throw is similar to my 105 5800 shifters. Though my Shimano GRX shifters seem to be a bit more concise when shifting.
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I'm planning to give my LTwoo R9 hydro shifters another try, especially since I received a pair of ZRace XG brake calipers that are surprisingly small/light. Even with the heavier hydro shifters, I should be within 100g of my older mechanical 105 shifters+Juin Tech calipers combined weight. I think for vastly improved braking, 100g is worth the weight penalty.
I opted to swap my drop bars with another a set of Alpha Pasca drops (from AliEx/Amazon) that have separate cable/hose holes for the shifters/brakes. I think my other drop bars were giving the LTwoo front FD shift cable issues on the cable pull. All cables exit through two spacious holes by the stem. The bars come in sub 200g and still feel quite stiff. I also swapped my shift wires to thicker Shimano spec wires, which I find just have better pull and feel with Shimano derailleurs. I find the supplied LTwoo shift cable wires too thin and easier to fray for my liking.
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Nice one. I'm getting on fine with mine, so far. As you say, a little heavier than 105 but in my book not that far out. Best of luck!
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I'm planning to give my LTwoo R9 hydro shifters another try, especially since I received a pair of ZRace XG brake calipers that are surprisingly small/light.
Make sure to set the olive as close to the barb as possible on these. They have a design flaw where the hose blocks one of outboard oil port if the hose is sticking out at all.
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Make sure to set the olive as close to the barb as possible on these. They have a design flaw where the hose blocks one of outboard oil port if the hose is sticking out at all.
Is this flaw a major issue? Also in regards to bleeding, do you have to bleed these calipers from the levers? My GRX brake calipers can be bled directly. I'm trying to get these setup this week.
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I finally finished my LTwoo R9 hydro install. This was a totally pain in the a**. Everything was going smoothly until I found out the rear brake hose had a slight leak. Mineral oil was leaking from inside my frame! I had to remove the hose and luckily I had a spare laying around. This time around I was able to get shifting to work properly and I'm running both Shimano front and rear derailleurs with the LTwoo shifters. I'm just glad to be done with it!
I find everything I buy from AliExpress to be a headache, I don't know why I still bother to buy stuff from there! Lol
FYI - I forgot to mention I actually dropped weight on my bike in this configuration. The XG calipers and removal of brake cables probably cut a few grams.
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... until I found out the rear brake hose had a slight leak. Mineral oil was leaking from inside my frame!...
Was the hose damaged by friction/cut or was it a factory defect?
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I finally finished my LTwoo R9 hydro install. This was a totally pain in the a**. Everything was going smoothly until I found out the rear brake hose had a slight leak. Mineral oil was leaking from inside my frame! I had to remove the hose and luckily I had a spare laying around. This time around I was able to get shifting to work properly and I'm running both Shimano front and rear derailleurs with the LTwoo shifters. I'm just glad to be done with it!
I find everything I buy from AliExpress to be a headache, I don't know why I still bother to buy stuff from there! Lol
FYI - I forgot to mention I actually dropped weight on my bike in this configuration. The XG calipers and removal of brake cables probably cut a few grams.
What kind of protection is that on the shifter (looks like a red finger cap) and where did you get it from?
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Was the hose damaged by friction/cut or was it a factory defect?
I think the hose was bent while routing it through the frame by the bottom bracket shell. I must have shoved it in a bit too hard. Saying that, the provided hoses are a lot more fragile compared to the Shimano hoses I use on my GRX equipped gravel bike.
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What kind of protection is that on the shifter (looks like a red finger cap) and where did you get it from?
These little rubber end caps are awesome. They protect the shifters and drop bar ends from falls.
https://aliexpress.us/item/3256803606384539.html (https://aliexpress.us/item/3256803606384539.html)
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I took the new setup out for a 32 mile ride. First I need to readjust my bike fit due to the change of drop bars, so I have a shorter stem on order. Regarding the LTwoo shifters, they seem to shift decently, the right shifter seems a tad jumpy for the RD, but it could just be the new shift cables settling in. Also the left shifter works well, but I find the trim settings to be pretty useless. On the positive side I don't seem to need the trim when in the gearing extremities. I'm not sure if it has something to do with using an Ultegra R8000 RD vs using the LTwoo R9 FD? In regards to braking, I still need to dial the caliper alignment properly. The ZRace XG hydro calipers I'm using have very little leeway for my Shimano Ice rotors. Also I still need to tweak the lever tension. It's a bit of balancing act, because the more tension you put in the lever, also affect the pad spacing of the calipers it seems. Lastly I'm not sure I like the Campy style upshift levers, on hard climbs I like to fully grip my hoods, but these upshift levers are in the way and forces me to 1 finger wrap the brake lever. Lastly I had my bike leaning up against a fence and the wind blew my bike down. Since the brake lever position is in a fixed position, I can definitely see how they can snap off. Luckily there was no damage using the alloy version, but I can see how the carbon version could break.
So far the pros of the conversion were a significant drop in weight (I went from 7.2kg to about 7.03kg) and better braking performance which seems most noticeable on fast descents allowing me to late brake into a corner, though I still need to dial in the modulation of the brakes. The cons for me are awkward grip with the upshift lever in my way, the potential for damage of the brake levers and the extremely finicky nature of the levers. They're just not user friendly to install/adjust. Compared to my GRX levers on my gravel bike, it's night and day when it comes to ease of installation, durability and actual use. Also if I was in no rush, I'd wait for Sensah to release their hydraulic drop shifters. My Sensah Team Pro shifters on my other road bike feel very close to my older 105 5800 shifters. If you got the money though, just invest in Shimano shifters and derailleurs, you'll save yourself so much headache!
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Has anyone done a thorough comparison between the LTwoo and the ZRace XG hydraulic calipers? I'm finding the ZRace calipers to have very tight pad clearance. They remind me of Shimano hydraulic calipers in that regards. Because of the tight clearance, I'm having to ease off a bit with the right lever adjustment screw. My left lever feels perfect though.
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I purchased a gr9 aluminium set to go on my old cross bike, stupidly I didn't realise that the callipers are indeed flat mount and not post. Instead of buying weird adapters I have paired the ltwoo brifters with shimano SLX callipers. This combination works excellently and I'm super happy with the outcome.
Because i used the SLX callipers I had a spare set of ltwoo gr9 callipers lying around. I decided to also give my roadbike the hydraulic upgrade also and picked up some 105 r7020 brifters. Unfortunately this combination doesn't seem to work aswell as the former. The lever throw on the 105 brifters is long and has no free stroke adjustment. I understand that the shimano 105 road callipers have pad adjustment mechanisms that maybe the ltwoo lacks?. I'll probably try a re bleed first but any advice would be useful!
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Have you tried squeezing the levers without the wheels in the frame? If you do this carefully you can adjust the pad gap to get brakes to engage much faster. Just take the wheel out, and squeeze the levers while keeping an eye on the movement of the pads. You will see the pads don't do back as far as they did. Put the wheel back in and see if the pads engage faster. If not, repeat the process... Since I found this method online the braking on my bikes with hydraulic disc brakes has much improved...
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I ended going back to my mechanical shifters and Juin Tech caliper setup. I couldn't get use to the upshift lever especially for the way I grip the hoods when climbing/sprinting. The upshift lever placement forces me to put one finger around the brake lever. I swapped to a pair of Sensah levers I had laying around. In fact the Sensah shifters are starting to grow on me mainly due the clean look and I think Sensah shifts slightly smoother in the low gear cogs vs Shimano.
At this point I think I'm fully writing off LTwoo shifters.
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I ended going back to my mechanical shifters and Juin Tech caliper setup. I couldn't get use to the upshift lever especially for the way I grip the hoods when climbing/sprinting. The upshift lever placement forces me to put one finger around the brake lever. I swapped to a pair of Sensah levers I had laying around. In fact the Sensah shifters are starting to grow on me mainly due the clean look and I think Sensah shifts slightly smoother in the low gear cogs vs Shimano.
At this point I think I'm fully writing off LTwoo shifters.
That was an expensive experiment :-\
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That was an expensive experiment :-\
I'm planning to build a bike for a family member, so I'll probably just put the LTwoo shifters on that bike! ;D
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Have you tried squeezing the levers without the wheels in the frame? If you do this carefully you can adjust the pad gap to get brakes to engage much faster. Just take the wheel out, and squeeze the levers while keeping an eye on the movement of the pads. You will see the pads don't do back as far as they did. Put the wheel back in and see if the pads engage faster. If not, repeat the process... Since I found this method online the braking on my bikes with hydraulic disc brakes has much improved...
I will try this tomorrow! Thanks for the suggestion :)
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Have you tried squeezing the levers without the wheels in the frame? If you do this carefully you can adjust the pad gap to get brakes to engage much faster. Just take the wheel out, and squeeze the levers while keeping an eye on the movement of the pads. You will see the pads don't do back as far as they did. Put the wheel back in and see if the pads engage faster. If not, repeat the process... Since I found this method online the braking on my bikes with hydraulic disc brakes has much improved...
Well this was a success, though my ham-fisted initial attempts were a fiasco. My nearest and dearest are all covered in hydraulic oil and there is an oil slick in the garden but hey ho.
Lever feel is much improved, though i think my rotors and or pads are contaminated as stopping power is pretty mediocre. I've given everything a good clean so will see if there is an improvement, if not ill get some better pads in.
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Yeah, it was for me also something of a revelation when I discovered this tip on the internet. After setting up my Shimano brakes on my MTB I was not happy with the amount of travel the levers had. I did bleed the brakes again from both sides, but it did not solve the problem so I was kind of disappointed with the brakes... And than I found this tip and it really changed the braking of the bike. They went from mushy and meh to absolutely flawless...
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Well this was a success, though my ham-fisted initial attempts were a fiasco. My nearest and dearest are all covered in hydraulic oil and there is an oil slick in the garden but hey ho.
Try brake cleaner (for car discs) on the oil stain :)
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At this point I think I'm fully writing off LTwoo shifters.
I'm not quite at the point of fully writing them off, but I am at this point looking into moving to Shimano Ultegra. Back in January when I ordered all of these parts, Ultegra was pretty hard to source cheaply. Nowadays, there's tons of backstock getting sold on ebay and even AE for not much more than LTWOO.
Like you say, the upshift ergonomics just aren't nice, I feel like I am just tolerating them. I have to move my hand back on the hood for every upshift. I've raced with these shifters and it's fine (especially from the drops) but at this point I am done, I just want to run Ultegra because I feel like upshifting from near the lever would be much more comfortable.
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Yeah, it was for me also something of a revelation when I discovered this tip on the internet. After setting up my Shimano brakes on my MTB I was not happy with the amount of travel the levers had. I did bleed the brakes again from both sides, but it did not solve the problem so I was kind of disappointed with the brakes... And than I found this tip and it really changed the braking of the bike. They went from mushy and meh to absolutely flawless...
Sanded my pads and got the contam off. Work really nicely now. Just need a bedding in stage now. Very happy.
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100 miles on my GR9 set and its...ok. Braking is great. I accidentally did the "squeeze without wheel" thing mentioned above totally on accident when removing my bike from the car rack. Now my front brake grabs really well lol!
Shifting is ok. Shifts to harder gears nicely, but is struggling to move to bigger cogs. I think the cable is stock shifter cable fully stretched now and some fine tuning on the indexing will make it much better. I'm wondering if upgrading the cable will improve performance.
Still getting used to the ergonomics of the ltwoo hoods. Might just be my fit that needs some slight adjustments.
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Are all the shifting "complaints" due to the Campagnolo style shifting vs. Shimano? Or is the thumb trigger really hard to use?
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100 miles on my GR9 set and its...ok. Braking is great. I accidentally did the "squeeze without wheel" thing mentioned above totally on accident when removing my bike from the car rack. Now my front brake grabs really well lol!
Shifting is ok. Shifts to harder gears nicely, but is struggling to move to bigger cogs. I think the cable is stock shifter cable fully stretched now and some fine tuning on the indexing will make it much better. I'm wondering if upgrading the cable will improve performance.
Still getting used to the ergonomics of the ltwoo hoods. Might just be my fit that needs some slight adjustments.
Did the replacement shifter work much better than the first? I just installed my shifters and am having similar bad shifting.
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Are all the shifting "complaints" due to the Campagnolo style shifting vs. Shimano? Or is the thumb trigger really hard to use?
Possibly.
I rode campy on my road bike, so that wasn't a big adjustment for me.
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Did the replacement shifter work much better than the first? I just installed my shifters and am having similar bad shifting.
Its still tricky to get dialed in, but yes it absolutely solved the shifting issues I was having. No matter the adjustments made, couldn't get it indexed properly. Fortunately my mechanic had a spare shimano shifter sitting around. We tried the shimano one and it helped identify the shifter as the problem. Rear mech was flawless with the shimano shifter.
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I am on the fence of ordering a set coming from Campy originally but want to see what people have to say about usability and shift quality.
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Are all the shifting "complaints" due to the Campagnolo style shifting vs. Shimano? Or is the thumb trigger really hard to use?
I think more the former rather than the latter. As far as Campag-style thumb shifting goes, the ergonomics are about as well-designed as they can be. Some users have reported that the mechanism binds a bit and is hard to press, but that's not a problem I've experienced.
My explanation is that thumb shifters will always have these problems because you only have 1 thumb wrapping around the shifter, (versus 4 fingers on the other side), meaning that thumb shifters will always require the user to move their thumb and loosen or change their grip to shift, while paddles near the brake lever let you maintain grip with your remaining fingers. Furthermore, shift paddles near the brake lever are reached by extending the finger rather than contracting it, while LTWOO's thumb shifters are positioned behind the thumb so they can be reached from the drops, meaning the thumb would have to be contracted to reach it. But, there is no way to contract your thumb to reach the button from the hoods, because the thumb is already contracted to grip the hood. This means you have to move your hand.
Maybe there is a mythical thumb shifter design that avoids this problem. I've thought of something like two small thumb levers connected by a bracket under the hood body. One near the brake lever pivot (like on the old Shimano Sora) so that your thumb can extend to shift from the hoods, the second near where the current lever is, but with a smaller profile designed to be exclusively operated from the drops. One can dream.
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you mean the solution is eRX? ;)
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I'm not quite at the point of fully writing them off, but I am at this point looking into moving to Shimano Ultegra. Back in January when I ordered all of these parts, Ultegra was pretty hard to source cheaply. Nowadays, there's tons of backstock getting sold on ebay and even AE for not much more than LTWOO.
Like you say, the upshift ergonomics just aren't nice, I feel like I am just tolerating them. I have to move my hand back on the hood for every upshift. I've raced with these shifters and it's fine (especially from the drops) but at this point I am done, I just want to run Ultegra because I feel like upshifting from near the lever would be much more comfortable.
I'm running GRX shifters on my gravel bike and I just feel those shifters are near perfect. Big and grippy and easy to adjust. I'd almost be tempted to run a pair of those mated to the ZRace XG calipers and get the best of both worlds in terms of ergonomics and weight reduction.
Are all the shifting "complaints" due to the Campagnolo style shifting vs. Shimano? Or is the thumb trigger really hard to use?
I'm prone to out of saddle for climbing/sprinting, and the thumb shifter doesn't allow me to fully grip the hoods. This isn't an issue with either Shimano or Sensah that gives me complete grasp of the hoods. If they just made the grips bigger similar to my GRX shifters on my gravel bike, then I don't think it would be an issue.
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I have discovered the secret to getting good front shifting out of the LTWOO RX shift lever paired with latest-generation Shimano "switch" front derailleurs (i.e. Ultegra R8000)
Normally the installation instructions for the Shimano FD tell you adjust cable tension until two markings on the front derailleur are aligned when the derailleur is shifted into big ring. When following these directions and pairing with an LTWOO shifter, the shifter's front derailleur trim settings don't work, they are too far away from the outer and inner limits, and therefore cause the derailleur cage to touch the chain when trimming.
I have now realized that the solution is to simply increase the cable tension way past Shimano's suggested set point. Then, you adjust the lower and upper limiter screws on the front derailleur to set the outer and inner limits of shifting. With this higher tension, the trim stops will now be be much closer to the outer and inner shift stops, making them useful again.
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First impressions of the Sensah HRD hydraulic groupset:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag-5GaOBZ28&ab_channel=ChinaCycling (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag-5GaOBZ28&ab_channel=ChinaCycling)
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Argh, wish I had waited for the sensah stuff. I much prefer their hood shape and shifting mechanism. Oh well.
Anyone have any tips on indexing the ltwoo rear dérailleurs? It's perfect on the stand but always seems to be half a cog off when I come to ride and it gets progressively worse !
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There is a problem with sensah shifters when mounting them flaring out. When you go into the drops and pull the brake the levers will shift. This is a huge issue when going downhill and the front shifts. Having the right do it isn't as huge an issue.
This happens cause you hand is pulling the lever diagonally. It doesn't happen as much when braking from the hoods but will do it.
Interesting that the right only does double shifts. I wonder if the new shifters are harder or longer to diagonally pull brake and get accidental shift.
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Well this is a bummer. Hit a pothole, shifter moved. Reset and gave it a tighten. Next time I was out, still wiggly. No matter how much I tightened, still wiggly. Then, I used my eyes and took a good hard look at the shifter, and saw my problem.
RIPieces LTWOO R9 Hydraulic shifter March 2023 - June 2023. You gave me 3 months of fairly okay shifting.
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Well this is a bummer. Hit a pothole, shifter moved. Reset and gave it a tighten. Next time I was out, still wiggly. No matter how much I tightened, still wiggly. Then, I used my eyes and took a good hard look at the shifter, and saw my problem.
RIPieces LTWOO R9 Hydraulic shifter March 2023 - June 2023. You gave me 3 months of fairly okay shifting.
Ouch.
Can you see where the crack/break originated? I’d assume around the mounting bolt.
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Well this is a bummer. Hit a pothole, shifter moved. Reset and gave it a tighten. Next time I was out, still wiggly. No matter how much I tightened, still wiggly. Then, I used my eyes and took a good hard look at the shifter, and saw my problem.
RIPieces LTWOO R9 Hydraulic shifter March 2023 - June 2023. You gave me 3 months of fairly okay shifting.
I've fully written off LTwoo. Simple things like tightening the shifter bolt clamp is a pain in the butt. Routing the mechanical shift cables is convoluted. Lastly, I just did not like how the thumb shifter gets in the way when I want to fully grip the hoods.
Maybe look into getting a pair of 105 hydraulic shifters. I think you still might be able to salvage the LTwoo brake calipers and use them with 105. Between the Chinese groupsets, I much prefer Sensah. They're slow to develop, but they seem like they have better support and their designs are more well thought out.
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I haven’t looked too deeply but the crack definitely runs through the shifter bolt.
At this point the shifters are actually the last remaining LTWOO parts from the group-set. I ditched the derailleurs for ultegra and the calipers for z-race a while ago. I’ve managed to source some deeply discounted dura ace R9020 shifters from FB marketplace, so I’m looking forward to installing those soon :D
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Looks like Shimano still wants to keep 105 the groupset of the people. 105 12 speed mechanical is coming.
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Install of GRT groupset went pretty smoothly but I’m having a hell of a time bleeding the brakes. The rear went okay, but the front I simply cannot get to develop any pressure. And I can’t figure out why! Fluid moves through in both directions when I push or pull it with a syringe. The only thing I can see is that the syringe adapter piece (that screws into the caliper port) leaks a bit during bleeding. But that was the same when I bled the rear. I’m using the ZTTO bleed kit.
Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
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Install of GRT groupset went pretty smoothly but I’m having a hell of a time bleeding the brakes. The rear went okay, but the front I simply cannot get to develop any pressure. And I can’t figure out why! Fluid moves through in both directions when I push or pull it with a syringe. The only thing I can see is that the syringe adapter piece (that screws into the caliper port) leaks a bit during bleeding. But that was the same when I bled the rear. I’m using the ZTTO bleed kit.
Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
I’ve found that any remaining trapped air that just won’t move upon bleeding the brakes will eventually move upon riding the bike and repeatedly braking. I had a gravel build with some very stubborn calipers that I could not get the rear brake properly bled on whatever I tried. One ride across bumpy terrain and all the air was rattled free and it moved up to the lever so I only had to quickly rebleed it and done.
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Install of GRT groupset went pretty smoothly but I’m having a hell of a time bleeding the brakes. The rear went okay, but the front I simply cannot get to develop any pressure. And I can’t figure out why! Fluid moves through in both directions when I push or pull it with a syringe. The only thing I can see is that the syringe adapter piece (that screws into the caliper port) leaks a bit during bleeding. But that was the same when I bled the rear. I’m using the ZTTO bleed kit.
Any ideas? Thanks in advance.
Try putting the mineral oil funnel attached to the top of the shifter and pump the brake lever to get rid of any remaining trapped air. If no more bubbles come out, remove the funnel and seal it. Double check there isn't a leak either by the calipers or the levers. Then pump the brake lever again for as many times as possible until you feel the calipers engaging.
Honestly I find Shimano hydraulic brakes much easier to setup.
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I’ve found that any remaining trapped air that just won’t move upon bleeding the brakes will eventually move upon riding the bike and repeatedly braking. I had a gravel build with some very stubborn calipers that I could not get the rear brake properly bled on whatever I tried. One ride across bumpy terrain and all the air was rattled free and it moved up to the lever so I only had to quickly rebleed it and done.
This solved the problem! Turned the bike upside down and all different directions and then went out for a maiden voyage—front stiffened right up within ten minutes. Thank you!
Try putting the mineral oil funnel attached to the top of the shifter and pump the brake lever to get rid of any remaining trapped air. If no more bubbles come out, remove the funnel and seal it. Double check there isn't a leak either by the calipers or the levers. Then pump the brake lever again for as many times as possible until you feel the calipers engaging.
Honestly I find Shimano hydraulic brakes much easier to setup.
Thanks! Will try this in the future if need be.
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Open bleed port at the lever and attach funnel filled with mineral oil combined with a small rubber mallet to tap the reservoir as I pump the lever - that has solved stubborn air stuck in the system for me.
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This solved the problem! Turned the bike upside down and all different directions and then went out for a maiden voyage—front stiffened right up within ten minutes. Thank you!
Glad I could help. Have fun!
I’ve found this to be more effective than tapping away on the bike with a screwdriver or rubber mallet. Riding will introduce vibration everywhere and the air will move up, especially under braking pressure. A quick bleed of the lever then is usually enough to get a perfect bite point.
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has anyone experimented with opening the screw that says air on the hood or the RX? I'm swapping bars so I have to disconnect my hydro lines and shift cables anyways.. I figure i may give that a shot during the bleed. just dont want to make them irreparable..
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Air screw is fine to use.
Here's how used the second (air) screw.
keep the caliper bleed valve closed.
Syringe on the hood bleed screw normally used for the cup.
Open and remove the air screw.
Push fluid from syringe very lightly.
Fluid will come out of the air hole. So have towel ready.
Put air screw back on. Remove syringe and put bleed screw back on.
Clean any mess.
I have no idea how to use a cup on the bleed hole and open the air screw.
Remember to unscrew the adjustment grub screw on the level anytime you bleed the brakes. So you fully release the piston to fill the valve. That way you have the best chance of getting the firmest feel. You may still need to tighten up the grub screw.
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Anyone know of anyplace you can just buy the shifters LTWOO RX 12 Disc 2x12s Road Hydraulic Disc Shifter . I want to pair them with some purple brake calipers I also already have all the other components with cable actuated disc so I don;t need a full groutpset.
Thanks
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Anyone know of anyplace you can just buy the shifters LTWOO RX 12 Disc 2x12s Road Hydraulic Disc Shifter . I want to pair them with some purple brake calipers I also already have all the other components with cable actuated disc so I don;t need a full groutpset.
Thanks
Lots of places on Ali are now selling separate parts. (Edited with correct link)
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805350413726.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.19.37387b3cnic8ES&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21USD%21US%20%24253.01%21US%20%24149.28%21%21%21%21%21%402103231116902127912683014e4997%2112000033455651484%21sh%21US%21161706925&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa
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I am having a lot of trouble indexing my GRT groupset. Is there anyone who can share a picture of the distance between the pulley and the casette they have set it up to? Or anyone knows anything I should know?
/Xtract
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I am having a lot of trouble indexing my GRT groupset. Is there anyone who can share a picture of the distance between the pulley and the casette they have set it up to? Or anyone knows anything I should know?
/Xtract
Have you seen Luke's tips and tricks on this video? Starts at 12:28
https://youtu.be/JnyvXR5TQEg
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Have you seen Luke's tips and tricks on this video? Starts at 12:28
https://youtu.be/JnyvXR5TQEg
I do not think he says anything about shifting issues, or tricks. In any case, it seems that I might have messed up the shifter housing while installing it through the internal routing handlebar, because I have tried with an external cable and it did not take long until I got it right. After putting it back through the internal hose again, it does not shift properly (going up in gear, so releasing tension, which makes sense). So time to buy some decent shifter housing and try to install it without messing it up!
/Xtract
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I do not think he says anything about shifting issues, or tricks. In any case, it seems that I might have messed up the shifter housing while installing it through the internal routing handlebar, because I have tried with an external cable and it did not take long until I got it right. After putting it back through the internal hose again, it does not shift properly (going up in gear, so releasing tension, which makes sense). So time to buy some decent shifter housing and try to install it without messing it up!
/Xtract
I would try giving the shift cable a few firm pulls to take out any slack from the internal cable routing. That usually does the trick for me.
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Lots of places on Ali are now selling separate parts. (Edited with correct link)
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805350413726.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.19.37387b3cnic8ES&pdp_npi=3%40dis%21USD%21US%20%24253.01%21US%20%24149.28%21%21%21%21%21%402103231116902127912683014e4997%2112000033455651484%21sh%21US%21161706925&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa
Thanks. I wasn't find any on my normal Ali searches but after vieing that one a tweaking my search a bit I am finding one or two now.
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I am having a lot of trouble indexing my GRT groupset. Is there anyone who can share a picture of the distance between the pulley and the casette they have set it up to? Or anyone knows anything I should know?
/Xtract
I have the GRT also. It seems to index okay on stand and work okay for a ride but then just becomes a bit crap. Exactly same with sensah stuff in the past. Id install an inline barrell adjuster so you can make slight tweaks on the road.
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I have the GRT also. It seems to index okay on stand and work okay for a ride but then just becomes a bit crap. Exactly same with sensah stuff in the past. Id install an inline barrell adjuster so you can make slight tweaks on the road.
Do you find the quality of the cable to be on the low end? I find that high end cables doesn't seem to stretch as much.... my Sensah seems to "stretch" and the inline helps
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Do you find the quality of the cable to be on the low end? I find that high end cables doesn't seem to stretch as much.... my Sensah seems to "stretch" and the inline helps
I’ve been wondering this as well. I get the mech dialed in and a few rides later its off. Not terribly, but noticeably. Contemplating upgrading to some jag wire cable. Surely a better cable will help with shifting.
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I have the GRT also. It seems to index okay on stand and work okay for a ride but then just becomes a bit crap. Exactly same with sensah stuff in the past. Id install an inline barrell adjuster so you can make slight tweaks on the road.
If you're doing gravel with the GRT, the same happens with my GRX 812 RD as well. I think just riding on the rough stuff shakes up the RD a bit. Not terribly misaligned, but I do have to check it after a ride.
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I’ve been wondering this as well. I get the mech dialed in and a few rides later its off. Not terribly, but noticeably. Contemplating upgrading to some jag wire cable. Surely a better cable will help with shifting.
Yes, every few rides there is a slight noticeable change, still useable but just very slight adjustment. I will be swapping for better cables at the end of the year.
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Do you find the quality of the cable to be on the low end? I find that high end cables doesn't seem to stretch as much.... my Sensah seems to "stretch" and the inline helps
I am using the cables that come with it. So maybe a good shimano or jagwire set would help ! I'll get in the stand and have another faff with it.
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I just received my GRT 12 speed groupset (aluminum version) and wanted to share some stuff I noticed that I haven't seen on this thread or other posts/videos before.
- The derailleur pulleys are different sizes: 12 teeth on the guide pulley and 14 teeth on the tension pulley. They also run on sealed bearings and spin freely which is nice - one thing that really irks me about 105 is that Shimano uses pulleys with only bushings and they always seem to gum up.
- The thumb shifter is matte plastic rather than glossy, and it doesn't have any branding on it. I like this - it's grippier than a glossy coating.
- Both right and left brifters have retention clips for the hydraulic lines that prevent them from swiveling outwards. The clips are retained by two 2 mm screws in the rear of the body; when they're unscrewed the clip can be popped out and the lines can swivel outwards for easier installation if the hydraulic lines foul on the bars. But if the lines don't foul, I'd actually keep the clips in because they retain the nut so you only need one wrench to install the hydraulic line instead of two. This seems to be different than previous versions, or maybe just the carbon version? See Trace Velo's video here: https://youtu.be/NKNcKwiH6v0?t=928 (https://youtu.be/NKNcKwiH6v0?t=928) where the nut seems to be held captive by the shape of the brifter's body rather than a separate retention system.
(https://i.imgur.com/LhwUZcFl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Osu0QuYl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ejiif1Nl.jpg)
- The shift lever has a 1.5 mm grub screw at its base which adjusts the shift paddle position independent of the brake lever. There's a ridiculous range of adjustment, way more than would ever be realistically used, but hey it's there anyway.
(https://i.imgur.com/vQTrUjdl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/vbDHUxPl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CHRXG7xl.jpg)
- I screwed in the free stroke grub screw to see if I could replicate the rattling issue, and I wasn't able to, but maybe this will be an issue when the brakes are all set up.
I'm putting this groupset on my new commuter bike build which should be done in a few days (I still need to build the wheels...) - I'll see how it functions, if there's any break-in, etc, but my first impressions out of the box are good.
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Yeah, definitely looks updated from my GR9 set.
I thought the rattling was from the washer in the piston. I hear it in mine on the bumpy sections I ride. :-\
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I’ve been wondering this as well. I get the mech dialed in and a few rides later its off. Not terribly, but noticeably. Contemplating upgrading to some jag wire cable. Surely a better cable will help with shifting.
I just installed the GRT and had poor shifting, hard shifting and inconsistent indexing. I have the carbon version of the GRT 1x12 and initially there was so much resistance when shifting the rear that I thought the shifter would break. I found the problem, the hardened steel cable guide that the cable travels thru on the rear derailleur is not beveled/radius-ed like they are on my Shimano derailleurs. As delivered the cable has to ride over a hardened steel 90 degree sharp edge. I took my dremel tool with a diamond bit and added a radius and now my shifting is more consistent and easier. I no longer feel like the shift paddle is going to break. I really can't believe that this is designed so poorly. The picture below shows the problem area after I gound down the sharp edge, I didn't grab a before picture. (https://imgur.com/a/B1zJvTw)
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I just installed the GRT and had poor shifting, hard shifting and inconsistent indexing. I have the carbon version of the GRT 1x12 and initially there was so much resistance when shifting the rear that I thought the shifter would break. I found the problem, the hardened steel cable guide that the cable travels thru on the rear derailleur is not beveled/radius-ed like they are on my Shimano derailleurs. As delivered the cable has to ride over a hardened steel 90 degree sharp edge. I took my dremel tool with a diamond bit and added a radius and now my shifting is more consistent and easier. I no longer feel like the shift paddle is going to break. I really can't believe that this is designed so poorly. The picture below shows the problem area after I gound down the sharp edge, I didn't grab a before picture. (https://imgur.com/a/B1zJvTw)
You'll get the same issues on some Shimano rear derailleurs. My trick is to use a short piece of plastic guide tube in that section of the derailleur. The cable tension keeps the plastic in place. My GRX 812 RD came with a guide tube pre-installed, while my 105 R7000 RD didn't come with it. I believe RISK also sells cable end caps with the plastic pre-installed as well.
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Like these?
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrP8OQm
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Helpful info. I'll check out my derailleur later to see what mine looks like.
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R7000 105 RD is particularly prone to this problem, ride it long enough and cable will cut thru the material and eventually fail. The routing is truly bad on that one.
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Like these?
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrP8OQm
That or 1-2 cm of plastic guide tube does the trick.
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I've done a teardown of my broken LTWOO brifter to see what's inside. I have the part-1 video up right now on youtube. Interesting finds include that the hydraulic reservoir is a modular part that pops right out.
(What's inside a L-TWOO hydraulic lever? Teardown & anatomy of a failure)
https://youtu.be/-E8eXfjXHEI (https://youtu.be/-E8eXfjXHEI)
I'm currently putting together a video demoing the rebuild and analyzing/explaining the shift mechanism (hopefully dropping this week), but the short of it is that the shift mechanism is pretty much identical in design to Campy Ultrashift (diagram attached). This is a bad thing IMO. Fundamentally, this is a friction shifter. To hold the cable in place, it uses a friction plate with indexing indents pushed up against the de-tensioning ratchet by a couple of spring washers. You adjust the friction with the screw in the back of the shifter. Shifting feels tough because you have to overcome the friction plate in addition to everything else. I also think it's not suitable for off-road use, where a bump can increase the tension on the cable and spontaneously advance the index, causing a mis-shift
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I've done a teardown of my broken LTWOO brifter to see what's inside. I have the part-1 video up right now on youtube. Interesting finds include that the hydraulic reservoir is a modular part that pops right out.
(What's inside a L-TWOO hydraulic lever? Teardown & anatomy of a failure)
https://youtu.be/-E8eXfjXHEI (https://youtu.be/-E8eXfjXHEI)
I'm currently putting together a video demoing the rebuild and analyzing/explaining the shift mechanism (hopefully dropping this week), but the short of it is that the shift mechanism is pretty much identical in design to Campy Ultrashift (diagram attached). This is a bad thing IMO. Fundamentally, this is a friction shifter. To hold the cable in place, it uses a friction plate with indexing indents pushed up against the de-tensioning ratchet by a couple of spring washers. You adjust the friction with the screw in the back of the shifter. Shifting feels tough because you have to overcome the friction plate in addition to everything else. I also think it's not suitable for off-road use, where a bump can increase the tension on the cable and spontaneously advance the index, causing a mis-shift
Yikes, makes me not want to try their ERX groupset. The LTwoo all-mechanical shifters seem to have better design logic and the ability to replace the hoods, though at the expense of not being able to shift in the drops. Honestly I think Sensah has the better shifters of the two Chinese groupset companies, though it seems they're having trouble getting their hydraulic shifters out to market.
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I've done a teardown of my broken LTWOO brifter to see what's inside. I have the part-1 video up right now on youtube. Interesting finds include that the hydraulic reservoir is a modular part that pops right out.
(What's inside a L-TWOO hydraulic lever? Teardown & anatomy of a failure)
https://youtu.be/-E8eXfjXHEI (https://youtu.be/-E8eXfjXHEI)
I'm currently putting together a video demoing the rebuild and analyzing/explaining the shift mechanism (hopefully dropping this week), but the short of it is that the shift mechanism is pretty much identical in design to Campy Ultrashift (diagram attached). This is a bad thing IMO. Fundamentally, this is a friction shifter. To hold the cable in place, it uses a friction plate with indexing indents pushed up against the de-tensioning ratchet by a couple of spring washers. You adjust the friction with the screw in the back of the shifter. Shifting feels tough because you have to overcome the friction plate in addition to everything else. I also think it's not suitable for off-road use, where a bump can increase the tension on the cable and spontaneously advance the index, causing a mis-shift
It's more or less an exact copy of Campagnolo's Hydro Shifters internally. Having worked on the Campy shifters, I can say that even the modular hydro unit looks identical maybe except for a few minor details. I've been running Ultra Shift in many iterations and it has gotten better every time. The 12sp generation has super light and smooth action. If you can shift it comfortably in the drops very much depends on bar shape and hand size. I have no problem shifting these in the drops.
I've also never had issues with riding these offroad. Campy has been used by quite a few pros in CX back in the rim brake days. With all that said, I dunno what level of quality the LTWOO internals are. Copying stuff is one thing. Doing it well is another.
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I've done a teardown of my broken LTWOO brifter to see what's inside. I have the part-1 video up right now on youtube. Interesting finds include that the hydraulic reservoir is a modular part that pops right out.
(What's inside a L-TWOO hydraulic lever? Teardown & anatomy of a failure)
https://youtu.be/-E8eXfjXHEI (https://youtu.be/-E8eXfjXHEI)
Appreciate the detailed teardown. That was an interesting look at their levers. Seems like it's worth waiting for some more fixes to be put in place.
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It's more or less an exact copy of Campagnolo's Hydro Shifters internally. Having worked on the Campy shifters, I can say that even the modular hydro unit looks identical maybe except for a few minor details. I've been running Ultra Shift in many iterations and it has gotten better every time. The 12sp generation has super light and smooth action. If you can shift it comfortably in the drops very much depends on bar shape and hand size. I have no problem shifting these in the drops.
I've also never had issues with riding these offroad. Campy has been used by quite a few pros in CX back in the rim brake days. With all that said, I dunno what level of quality the LTWOO internals are. Copying stuff is one thing. Doing it well is another.
Thanks for the feedback! I have never worked hands-on with Campy so I've only been able to go off of the material online, which admittedly is sparse, it's good to hear from someone with real-life experience on this.
I guess I'm still on the fence over if this is a "good" indexing design. On one hand (as you illustrate) Campy has a good track record with making it work well, even in off-road applications. On the other hand this friction system design is inherently a zero-sum compromise between shift-action-lightness and indexing security. Meanwhile, Shimano and SRAM's systems use mechanical interference to achieve indexing.
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I've done a teardown of my broken LTWOO brifter to see what's inside. I have the part-1 video up right now on youtube. Interesting finds include that the hydraulic reservoir is a modular part that pops right out.
(What's inside a L-TWOO hydraulic lever? Teardown & anatomy of a failure)
https://youtu.be/-E8eXfjXHEI (https://youtu.be/-E8eXfjXHEI)
I'm currently putting together a video demoing the rebuild and analyzing/explaining the shift mechanism (hopefully dropping this week), but the short of it is that the shift mechanism is pretty much identical in design to Campy Ultrashift (diagram attached). This is a bad thing IMO. Fundamentally, this is a friction shifter. To hold the cable in place, it uses a friction plate with indexing indents pushed up against the de-tensioning ratchet by a couple of spring washers. You adjust the friction with the screw in the back of the shifter. Shifting feels tough because you have to overcome the friction plate in addition to everything else. I also think it's not suitable for off-road use, where a bump can increase the tension on the cable and spontaneously advance the index, causing a mis-shift
Great teardown. Really insightful. I was a campy fan on my road bike, so I'm hopeful for how my GR9 will do longterm.
Also, did Pepper get any pets?! You left us hanging lol!
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Thanks for the feedback! I have never worked hands-on with Campy so I've only been able to go off of the material online, which admittedly is sparse, it's good to hear from someone with real-life experience on this.
I guess I'm still on the fence over if this is a "good" indexing design. On one hand (as you illustrate) Campy has a good track record with making it work well, even in off-road applications. On the other hand this friction system design is inherently a zero-sum compromise between shift-action-lightness and indexing security. Meanwhile, Shimano and SRAM's systems use mechanical interference to achieve indexing.
As far as off-road goes, it's worth noting that for Ekar, Campagnolo changed the thumb lever design a bit (L-TWOO's version is almost like a hybrid between the Ekar version and the original Ultrashift version) and it's a single-click only. I don't think this is a bad thing - over the years I've had 9/10 speed Campagnolo Chorus (with the multi-shift down) and 11 speed Potenza (single shift down, with the droopy thumb lever)
For reference - ultrashift levers (note higher thumb button):
(https://www.cycles-shark.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/1640_ergopower_1-2.jpg)
Powershift levers (see lower thumb button):
(https://road.cc/sites/default/files/cropped/preview_500/images/2015%20Campagnolo%20Veloce%20Athena/ATblack-2015-Ergopower.jpg)
Ekar levers (redesigned thumb button):
(https://www.campagnolo.com/dw/image/v2/BJSG_PRD/on/demandware.static/-/Sites-cmp-master-catalog/default/dw82be0648/images/hi-res-1/CCLEKAR1X13S.standard.1.H1.jpg)
For what it's worth, I think the single-click Powershift levers with the lower thumb button are excellent - the improved ergonomics is worth the trade-off against being able to shift across multiple harder gears. I have found that on bumpy surfaces, the Ultrashift levers can sometimes have me going down two gears when I only intended to go down one. I suspect that's why Campagnolo may have taken that approach with Ekar.
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Thanks for the feedback! I have never worked hands-on with Campy so I've only been able to go off of the material online, which admittedly is sparse, it's good to hear from someone with real-life experience on this.
I guess I'm still on the fence over if this is a "good" indexing design. On one hand (as you illustrate) Campy has a good track record with making it work well, even in off-road applications. On the other hand this friction system design is inherently a zero-sum compromise between shift-action-lightness and indexing security. Meanwhile, Shimano and SRAM's systems use mechanical interference to achieve indexing.
I'm totally with you. I don't think the Ultra Shift mechanism is well suited to off-road use. You can occasionally overshift the thumb paddle when going over rough terrain. And I do think that's why Campy used their Power Shift mechanism on their gravel group Ekar. I'm using both and they each have their strenghts and weaknesses. I'm currently building up a Velobuild VB099 with LTWOO RX12 speed for a friend. I'm very curious to compare it with my Record 12sp groupset and see if I can get it to shift just as smoothly. I will report back.
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Maybe I am the outlier here, but I have ridden my ltwoo RX since basically the moment they came out (I believe I got them in december of so !).
At first I was not very enthusiastic about the braking and the shifting. Braking was ok, better than in the hybrid sensah shifters I had before, but a bit worse than in the shimano GRX. Shifting was so-so in the small ring, and pretty awful in the big ring. Installation was not straightforward.
First, one of my levers did not have the cable routed correctly (see https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_vF6lKv7aeE ).
Second ... the pulleys that came with the rear derrailleur are too narrow and basically garbage. Do yourself a favor and replace them with some stone narrow-wide pulleys (11t/12t and 14t work fine).
Over time, however, the shifting has gone consistently better, to the point that right now it is just flawless. It is silently, it basically never misshifts. Only sometimes I need to help it to index when downshifting, but this is 100% my fault because I wrapped two layers of bar tape and the hood got pretty thick at the base rubbing a bit the side-lever. Not that annoying in any case, so not in a hurry to fix it.
The braking stayed more or less the same. Okeish, but I would have preferred a more aggressive braking with less dead-zone and shorter reach. I found out that the pistons tend to open a bit with time, so from time to time (maybe once every month or two) to recover the harder feel I like, I put some rubber holding the brakes actuated over night so that the pistons close a bit by themselves. The next morning they are pretty good.
I am indeed tempted by the electronic groupset, but what holds me back are the reports about the water tightness (the 80 designer store person told me they are sorted out, but I honestly don't believe so without proof), the autosleep, the removal of auto-trim and the fact that the derrailleur probably has the same rather-weak spring as the mechanical one. I wish it had a stronger spring and I wish there was a 1x version of it with a clutch.
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Update to my previous post. I built up the bike and have gotten a bit of time in on it - not enough for any real judgements but enough for first impressions.
Build notes:
- The brake bleeding process is exactly as depicted in the official bleed guide video on youtube. I used the same EZmtb brake bleed kit that Trace Velo used, which has the adapter needed to screw into the caliper. The brake lines and brifter bodies came filled with light blue oil, which I flushed out and replaced with shimano mineral oil. Really easy bleed, no more difficult than any of the shimano brakes I've done. I did unscrew the free throw adjustment screw before bleeding; after the bleed was done the brakes were firm but needed to be pulled back quite far to make contact with the rotor, and screwing in the free throw screw about 3 turns reduced the throw a lot while not negatively affecting rotor/pad clearance as far as I could tell (no rubbing).
- I used a housing ferrule with a plastic sheath to protect from the sharp edge on the cable exit of the rear derailleur as depicted in tsneidin's post previously. The shift indexing is VERY sensitive to cable tension; a quarter turn of the barrel adjuster yields very noticeable differences in shift performance.
- The b adjustment screw on the rear derailleur is almost useless. I'm using a 46 tooth cassette and have the b screw backed out almost all the way.
- The clutch isn't as strong as the ones on Deore or GRX rear derailleurs, but still seems adequate for a 1x setup. It's certainly stronger than the first gen Sensah SRX clutch which dropped my chain quite a few times.
Some impressions from the brief amount of time I've put on this groupset:
- The brifters are quite petite. I have average sized hands and if the brifters were any smaller I wouldn't be able to get my entire palm on the top of the hoods. The shape is quite nice though, and there's support in the brifter body everywhere there's contact with the hand or fingers; overall quite comfortable.
- The braking is excellent, easily on par with the 105 disc brakes on my other bikes. I haven't experienced any rattling from the brake piston retaining clip either.
- The force required to downshift is greater than upshifting, and I often have to use 2 fingers to comfortably downshift. The downshift lever/paddle has a moderately thin section near its top and I'll be keeping an eye on that section for any signs of fatigue.
- The ability to dump 3 gears up + 4 gears down is amazing, I use it quite a lot when slowing down/speeding up or cresting a hill. Probably my favorite feature to be honest. It is hard to dump all 4 gears with the thumb shifter from the top of the hoods, much easier to do in the drops, but I can get 3 gears reliably which is enough for me.
- I'm temporarily using flared bars (~16 degrees of flare) until the actual bars I ordered arrive. The brifters are ok at an angle but I think they'll be more comfortable in a level, non-flared position. Something to think about when choosing bars, as this is nominally a gravel groupset and all gravel bikes seem to come with flared bars these days...
- The compression nuts on the brake calipers seem to be anodized so I don't think they'll be susceptible to the corrosion problems that Trace Velo had. I do live in a much drier environment, but I plan on riding this bike quite a bit in the winter so it is a concern.
I probably won't update again until I've put a lot of miles on this setup, or until an issue arises. I got this groupset hoping it would be a fairly cheap, moderately high-performance, reliable groupset for my commuter/all-around bike, and it seems like it'll fulfill that role admirably.
Photo of the bike, with fit not yet dialed in:
(https://i.imgur.com/XL75t0K.jpg)
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Are the thumb change levers replaceable I have the earlier style unable to reach from the drops would be better to have the newer ones without replacing the whole unit
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Are the thumb change levers replaceable I have the earlier style unable to reach from the drops would be better to have the newer ones without replacing the whole unit
I highly doubt that they're interchangeable.
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With the latest issue on the e-RX/e-R9, it has made me second thought and if I should stick with non-electronic. Just wondering any more long term update or reviews on the RX (thinking of aluminum version). Internally routing it through a frame and bar would probably still be a pain compared going with electronic...
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I've recently built a V-BR099 with LTWOO RX12.
I was most impressed by the shifters and brakes. The quality is really impressive for the money. The brakes work fine. Everything is super straightforward. Bleeding was easy (once you realize that you need to back off the little reach adjust grub screw in the lever completely in order for the master cylinder to go into the zero position and not block the oil flow).
I like that the FD has its own cable stop and cable tension adjustment mechanism. That makes a lot of sense particularly for fully internally routed frames. You can just run the housing all the way to the FD and adjust the cable tension there. No need for stupid cable stop designs in the frame.
I was least impressed by the RD. The whole thing looks just a bit cheap. The derailleur cage is made of carbon on the outside (which honestly seems to be more for looks than for stiffness) while the inside is made of some sort of polymer (which arrived slightly bent and I had to bend it back into shape - the seller promised to send a spare derailleur cage).
The cable routing is just borderline stupid. Like other people have said already, the cable has to make a super tight turn from the barrel adjuster to where it is clamped down on the RD parallelogram. Therefore, it severely rubs agains the RD housing. I used some liner between barrel adjuster and the clamping screw to alleviate the problem. But still, it's just a very bad design.
It shifts fine. Not stellar but fine.
I wasn't able to get it noise free in the stand. Paired with a ZTTO 11-34 12sp cassette, there was always a clicky gear on either end of the cassette. Curiously though, on the road when shifting under load it is not an issue. So that's fine, I guess.
Lastly, the brifters are obviously Campagnolo copies internally. I'm running the original 12sp Campagnolo Record on my rim brake Velobuild VB-R218 which uses the same kind of mechanism (Campagnolo Ultra Shift). I can say that the LTWOO thumb paddle requires significantly more force and is harder to shift accurately and not overshift compared to Campag. Time will tell if with further use the action gets easier.
Campag are more or less producing this tech ever since their first ergopower 8sp shifters came out so I guess they had 30+ years to perfect it.
For the money, I think it's a great groupset but IMO especially the RD can be improved. If the cable pull ratio is identical, I'd probably put a 12sp 105 derailleur on there and be done with it.
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Is there a consensus on what the pull ratio is and if it's compatible with other RDs?
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Is there a consensus on what the pull ratio is and if it's compatible with other RDs?
LTwoo rear shifters definitely work with current Shimano 10/11/12 speed which share the same pull ratio (Tiagra 4700, GRX 400/800, 105, Ultegra, etc.)
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Is there a consensus on what the pull ratio is and if it's compatible with other RDs?
I’ve successfully paired the R9 (11s) with an 11s ultegra rear derailleur
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how do the stock brake pads perform compared to shimano ones?(k05s / l05a)
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how do the stock brake pads perform compared to shimano ones?(k05s / l05a)
I believe they are L05A compatible, but with their own unique "eggroll" design shape. I like the LTwoo brake pads. I ended up putting them on my GRX gravel bike. They're a bit more expensive compared to the Shimano finned pad knock offs, but braking performance seems quite good and so is the wear life.
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I believe they are L05A compatible, but with their own unique "eggroll" design shape. I like the LTwoo brake pads. I ended up putting them on my GRX gravel bike. They're a bit more expensive compared to the Shimano finned pad knock offs, but braking performance seems quite good and so is the wear life.
Interesting, thanks!. I was thinking the other way around :P (shimano pads in l-twoo calipers)
I guess I'll see how I like them when the GR9 set arrives.
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Anyone tried GRT 1x12 shifters with Shimano MTB 12sp derauller? (or ltwoo ax12 mtb rear mech) I want to convert my mtb to gravel and buy only hydro shifters.
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How do you bleed ltwoo gr9 brakes?
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Air screw is fine to use.
Here's how used the second (air) screw.
keep the caliper bleed valve closed.
Syringe on the hood bleed screw normally used for the cup.
Open and remove the air screw.
Push fluid from syringe very lightly.
Fluid will come out of the air hole. So have towel ready.
Put air screw back on. Remove syringe and put bleed screw back on.
Clean any mess.
I have no idea how to use a cup on the bleed hole and open the air screw.
Remember to unscrew the adjustment grub screw on the level anytime you bleed the brakes. So you fully release the piston to fill the valve. That way you have the best chance of getting the firmest feel. You may still need to tighten up the grub screw.
It's been a minute since I've been on here. I am in the midst of testing an eRX (1 of 5 sets) and for the life of me, cannot get the rest of the air out.
Going to use this tip in addition to some bicycle gymnastics.
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Also,
I have an issue of not measuring twice and cutting once.
The front brake hose was cut too long.
Does anyone know if Shimano BH90 olives are compatible with the LTWOO?
Thanks!
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Also,
I have an issue of not measuring twice and cutting once.
The front brake hose was cut too long.
Does anyone know if Shimano BH90 olives are compatible with the LTWOO?
Thanks!
I had asked Ltwoo official store during my build and they told me bh59. Haven't needed to replace stock ones, so can't 100% verify.
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Also,
I have an issue of not measuring twice and cutting once.
The front brake hose was cut too long.
Does anyone know if Shimano BH90 olives are compatible with the LTWOO?
Thanks!
I used BH90 barbs when setting up my set, no issues thus far. The olives are the same between BH59 and BH90, only the barbs differ.
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I used BH90 barbs when setting up my set, no issues thus far. The olives are the same between BH59 and BH90, only the barbs differ.
I used BH59 barbs on my eRX and also haven't had any issues, I believe the hoses are BH59 spec, but with the BH90 barbs being thicker, they'll obvs do the job.
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Has anyone ever needed repair parts for this Ltwoo groupset? I couldn't find it anywhere to buy it.
I ask because I have the R9 and the UP button broke, for no apparent reason, it never fell down.
Below are the images:
(https://i.ibb.co/XLZTGcL/photo-2024-01-27-14-58-14.jpg) (https://ibb.co/C85FSR8)
(https://i.ibb.co/fdH4XrR/photo-2024-01-27-14-58-17.jpg) (https://ibb.co/VYT2LMy)
(https://i.ibb.co/Gdm4PGh/photo-2024-01-27-14-58-18.jpg) (https://ibb.co/L0KXpBG)
(https://i.ibb.co/hHspwB5/photo-2024-01-27-14-58-21.jpg) (https://ibb.co/J2nXgvL)
(https://i.ibb.co/17rTqbg/photo-2024-01-27-14-58-25.jpg) (https://ibb.co/4K8pTJq)
(https://i.ibb.co/B3brvq8/photo-2024-01-27-14-58-27.jpg) (https://ibb.co/bmT2Yzp)
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If you bought it from AliEx, I'd contact the store you bought the groupset from and see if they can send you replacement shifters. If not, try contacting Ltwoo directly and see if they'll replace it for you.
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Has anyone ever needed repair parts for this Ltwoo groupset? I couldn't find it anywhere to buy it.
I ask because I have the R9 and the UP button broke, for no apparent reason, it never fell down.
Store I bought from (80 Designer store) sent me a replacement GR9 shifter after I couldn't get it to shift right and I just had to pay shipping.
Contact the vendor and see if they can help you. If you're stateside, I have a spare right shifter I can probably get that paddle to you if you cover shipping.
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Anyone running a GR9 groupset with a large cassette?
I'm running one with a 46T cassette. It seems like the tension is too low in the smaller cogs, and when you freewheel the weight/inertia of the cassette keeps pushing the chain round causing a lot of slack and dropped chains.
Something to keep in mind if anyone is eyeing this groupset up.
I'm going to put a GRX derailleur on and see if it resolves it.
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I'm running GR7 with 11-46 and tension seems fine. No dropped chains or slack that I noticed. I don't love the annoying thumb shifter but that's the only qualm thing I have about this groupset.
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Anyone running a GR9 groupset with a large cassette?
I'm running one with a 46T cassette. It seems like the tension is too low in the smaller cogs, and when you freewheel the weight/inertia of the cassette keeps pushing the chain round causing a lot of slack and dropped chains.
Something to keep in mind if anyone is eyeing this groupset up.
I'm going to put a GRX derailleur on and see if it resolves it.
I have a friend who is using the GR9 with a Shimano HG-601 chain and Deore M5100 11-51 cassette and everything is fine with this configuration, it was a matter of making fine adjustments. Follow the video in PT-BR:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=09HwsZ_d3YE
In my case, I use the GR9 with two 46/30 chainrings and an 11-34 cassette and on heavy gravel sometimes the chain jumps a little hitting the frame, what I did was adjust the cage to be more taut, tightening the screw of image:
(https://i.ibb.co/GWrwKsk/photo-2024-02-08-09-44-04.jpg) (https://ibb.co/GWrwKsk)
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If you bought it from AliEx, I'd contact the store you bought the groupset from and see if they can send you replacement shifters. If not, try contacting Ltwoo directly and see if they'll replace it for you.
Thanks for the guidance. Despite having purchased the groupset more than 3 months ago on Aliexpress, the seller will send me a new one as this replacement part does not yet exist, not even Ltwoo Official has it.
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Store I bought from (80 Designer store) sent me a replacement GR9 shifter after I couldn't get it to shift right and I just had to pay shipping.
Contact the vendor and see if they can help you. If you're stateside, I have a spare right shifter I can probably get that paddle to you if you cover shipping.
Thanks for the guidance. Despite having purchased the groupset more than 3 months ago on Aliexpress, the seller will send me a new one as this replacement part does not yet exist, not even Ltwoo Official has it.
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Thanks for the guidance. Despite having purchased the groupset more than 3 months ago on Aliexpress, the seller will send me a new one as this replacement part does not yet exist, not even Ltwoo Official has it.
Glad they're helping you out. Any idea what caused the break? Seems like a strange location for it to fail.
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Anyone running a GR9 groupset with a large cassette?
I'm running one with a 46T cassette. It seems like the tension is too low in the smaller cogs, and when you freewheel the weight/inertia of the cassette keeps pushing the chain round causing a lot of slack and dropped chains.
Something to keep in mind if anyone is eyeing this groupset up.
I'm going to put a GRX derailleur on and see if it resolves it.
Running an 11-46 sunrace cassette and haven't had any issues at all.
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Glad they're helping you out. Any idea what caused the break? Seems like a strange location for it to fail.
I couldn't identify the reason for the part breaking because the equipment's usage mileage is only 400 kilometers, it was very strange and I didn't apply that much force and there wasn't even a fall. Two mechanics also evaluated it and didn't know. I think I was the first to report this problem.
When a replacement part appears, I'll buy a spare so as not to have the bike sitting idle.
Despite the problem, I really liked the groupset (I use the R9 for the shifter and the GR9 as a rear derailleur), I have another gravel bike with the Shimano GRX and the Ltwoo goes well.
Thanks again.
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I think it's been mentioned on this forum that LTwoo used riveted ABS plastic for the left and right shift levers. Constant applied pressure makes it susceptible to breaking. I wouldn't even bother with LTwoo mechanical levers. You'd be better off using Sensah Team Pro 11 or 12 speed shifters with LTwoo derailleurs. In fact I just built a bike with this exact same configuration (Sensah shifters, LTwoo front/rear derailleurs).
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I have a friend who is using the GR9 with a Shimano HG-601 chain and Deore M5100 11-51 cassette and everything is fine with this configuration, it was a matter of making fine adjustments. Follow the video in PT-BR:
In my case, I use the GR9 with two 46/30 chainrings and an 11-34 cassette and on heavy gravel sometimes the chain jumps a little hitting the frame, what I did was adjust the cage to be more taut, tightening the screw of image:
Thanks for the tip, maybe it's a skill issue on my end. Or possibly made worse by a slightly draggy freehub.
In any case I got an ok deal on a grx812 and that's completely fixed the issue.
Maybe I'll try with the gr9 again in the future when I have time to play have a closer look at it.
Edit:
Actually looking at photos of the gr9 a bit more closely, I'm wondering if there's an two versions?
I've got the first one with no cylindrical part. The second one has it, which looks a lot like some form of clutch/damping.
(https://ltwoo.bike/cdn/shop/products/2864-2126-01_1800x1800.jpg?v=1638291109)
(https://winspace.co.nz/cdn/shop/files/GR9-AL.jpg?v=1691618305)
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Edit:
Actually looking at photos of the gr9 a bit more closely, I'm wondering if there's an two versions?
I've got the first one with no cylindrical part. The second one has it, which looks a lot like some form of clutch/damping.
Correct. The first was the purely mechanical version. The one with the cylindrical tensioner was when they went hydraulic. Looking at pics on Ali, there might even be a newer version GR9 with a more streamlined looking rear mech.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805399421120.html
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There is a road hydraulic group L-twoo R9 2x11 for gravel.
I want to install an MTB cassette and, accordingly, a rear derailleur with a damper
But there are no 11-speed GR9 rear derailleurs for sale.
Only visually identical 10-speed GR7 and 12-speed GRT are sold (https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005005496048529.html (https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005005496048529.html)), as well as MTB L-twoo T9 at 11 speed, which looks exactly the same (https: // aliexpress.ru/item/1005005981719066.html (http://https: // aliexpress.ru/item/1005005981719066.html))
Are the rear derailleurs R9, GR7, GR9, GRT, T9 compatible with each other in terms of pull ratio?
(https://ae04.alicdn.com/kf/S8fe965ba5e024ae38548fa1efa93d2b4U.jpg_640x640.jpg) (https://ae04.alicdn.com/kf/Sb021a09ae9f54288a905bcbff5960eb4F.jpg) (https://ae04.alicdn.com/kf/Sea28b795362d49c2b5a805cfc31bece9R.jpg) (https://ae04.alicdn.com/kf/Sa1828022c36840ac8b9e20f463250e3bN.jpg_640x640.jpg)