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Messages - Carbon_Dude

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1696
29er / Re: 2014 RIP 9 RDO Replica?
« on: May 11, 2014, 12:23:28 PM »
^^ SO what you're saying is if you get a full suspension Chiner in their current offerings... Don't cheap out on the shock?

I like the CTD idea, even though Fox charges a premium for their products, it's nice having both a partial lockout and when fully locked there is some compliance.  I could have gone with the RockShox, and I'm sure I would have been happy with it as well since it would have been quite a bit cheaper.  However, when you pair up the Fox rear shock with a Fox fork and the dual lockout lever, I think the system works really well.

One thing on the dual lock lever, the way Fox implemented it, you need to install a cable splitter,  and the lever requires a bit of effort to engage.  I stopped by the LBS yesterday and looked again at the Scott Twin-Lock system and it is much easier to engage.  It's a much nicer lever overall.  I may look into seeing if I can ditch the Fox lever  and incorporate the Scott lever on my bike.

Here is some good info on the Fox CTD Boost Valve shock I installed:
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Fox-Racing-Shox-Float-CTD-Boost-Valve-Remote-Shock-tested-2013.html

1697
Component Deals & Selection / Re: SRAM XX1 1x11 Discussion
« on: May 11, 2014, 11:01:17 AM »
Most of you probably know that SRAM also came out with the 1x11 X01, similar to the XX1 but slightly cheaper.  Now SRAM recently announced X1, a low-tier version of their 1x11 drivetrain.  SRAM is hoping to get bike companies to have more 1x11 offerings on bikes that have lower price points.

When I built my IP-036 more than a year after XX1 came out, I checked eBay pricing on the X01 group and found there was't that much difference in price by going with the "lower cost" slightly heavier 1x11 X01 so I stuck with XX1 for both my bikes.  Let's see what eBay pricing is on X1.

More info here:
http://reviews.mtbr.com/first-ride-new-sram-x1-11-speed-drivetrain

1698
29er / Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« on: May 11, 2014, 10:42:38 AM »
That's very odd about your brake lever.  I just did a brake bleed on my IP-056 rear brake.  The more I learn about the Shimano's, the easier they seem to be to service.  No fault of the brake system that it needed bleeding, I just didn't get it right last year when I installed the brakes and the rear lever never felt as solid as my front lever.  Even though I've been sick these past few days, I decided to work on my bike a bit and 20 min later, I had the rear lever feeling just as solid as the front.

I think I didn't have the bike on the right angle for all the air to easily bleed out of the line before.  This time, I put the bike in the stand at about a 45 deg angle and pushed fluid from the rear caliper up to the lever, after that the lever felt perfect.

As for your rear lever, I don't have any advice other than if it bothers you (as it would me), see if you can exchange it.  Seems like it could be defective, none of my levers have any kind of popping, just smooth actuation throughout the travel.

UPDATE:  I did check my levers after I posted and found that on the release there can be a very small click or pop.  Smooth when squeezing in, but a slight click or pop on the release.  Most noticeable on the rear brake, slightly noticeable on one of my front brakes.

1699
29er / Re: 2014 RIP 9 RDO Replica?
« on: May 11, 2014, 10:22:47 AM »
I think the extra linkage creates a virtual pivot point, more complexity, but can allow the rear wheel to travel in a more vertical path.  My 2004 Specialized Epic had something similar which provided a very good FS ride.  Since then Specialzed has changed that design to be more like the single pivot designs we see from other manufacturers.  The biggest issue I had with my 26" Epic was the low bottom bracket height, lots of pedal strikes and I needed to be really careful when gong over log piles.  I know the Epic 29er improved the BB height but the new design removed the lower link which makes it more like an IP-036, just with a Brain Shock so it has the auto-lockout which can be debated as to how well it works.

The Fox CTD shock on my IP-036 works really well.  Full open (D-mode) the suspension is very active and soaks up the bumps, in T-mode, shock compression from pedaling is minimal while still absorbing small-med bumps, in C-mode the shock is 90% locked out but still provides absorption of small bumps.

So in today's single pivot designs, the shock can do more of the work and can make up for the simpler, less tuned, suspension design.

1700
29er / Re: 2014 RIP 9 RDO Replica?
« on: May 11, 2014, 07:49:43 AM »
The design of the shock mount on the Intense Tracer frame you posted above is basically the same as the XMIplay IP-156, the difference between the two frames is the other pivot on the Intense is near the bottom bracket, on the IP-156 it's out on the seat stay.  I'm sure both work well and I might prefer the Intense design if it weren't $3,300.



Think it's just Single Pivot Point (SPP), but I'm not very knowledgable on suspension.

The IP-036/IP-156 are "Linkage Driven Single Pivot" designs which is really 4-bar linkage design.  There is a simpler Single Pivot design (3-bar linkage) that has been around longer and were some of the first rear suspension designs.  For XC riding, I tend to see more 4-bar Single Pivot designs from the big name bike companies.  There are a few notable DW-Link XC designs from Turner, Norco, and Pivot that have done well but can be heavier.  Giant has a DW-Link variant they call Maestro.  I said there seemed to be basically two designs on the market for XC bikes but I suppose there are many variations on single pivot and DW Link options.

1701
29er / Re: Welcome to Chinertown!
« on: May 10, 2014, 10:54:07 AM »
I agree.  Our company outsourced production of our products to Asia about 15 years ago.  All companies want to maximize their profit margins but there is a limit to what consumers will tolerate.  Big US companies no longer take pride in employing US workers, instead they take pride in how they can line their pockets and the pockets of share holders.  US CEO's are paid exorbitant salaries for what?  So they can run to  another company when the one they are running starts loosing money?

The big name bike manufacturers are charging at least 4X the cost for their frames in the retail market.  It's just bonkers.  Free market economics dictate that if there is another company willing to accept a lower profit margin, that company will bring products into the marketplace.  To me I'm seeing a bit of a conspiracy in the bike world, seems all the big name manufactures price their product similarly to their competitors rather than calculating their overhead and reasonable profit margin.

Yes, there is design innovation, testing, warranty, and liability costs that most Asian manufacturers don't have.  However, I don't see much design innovation these days, most FS bikes are either DW-Link or Single Pivot.  There are minor variations on those two designs with the possible exception of the Niner RDO that has been discussed in another thread on this forum.  I've seen videos of Asian companies doing testing, and they offer a similar warranty.  I've seen big name carbon frame warranties anywhere from 2 years to Lifetime, however, that is only to the original owner which I say is total BS!  Are they warrantying just the purchase or their product?  As a long time reader of the forums, I've seen plenty of warranty denials from the big name companies.

That leaves liability, which the Asian suppliers to not need to worry about since they do not have a presence in the US.  It would be very difficult to bring a lawsuit against someone like HongFu, while I'm sure Trek has an extensive legal staff.

So in my opinion it comes down to cost and innovation.  If the big names continue to sell only slightly better products at 4X the price, they will continue to loose market share to the Chendors :).   The big name companies are very lucky that right now the Chendors or only selling frames and not complete bikes.  Imagine what would happen if Dick's sporting goods started selling complete Chinese Direct Carbon 29er bikes for $1,500?  I'm not seeing it yet but I bet it's not too far off.

1702
29er / Re: Help me choose a frame..
« on: May 09, 2014, 08:04:19 AM »
When shopping for a Chiner frame, I created a spreadsheet with a chart of all the frames I was interested in.  It will not help you since all my data is for Large size frames.  However, I would suggest you do a little homework and create something similar for what you are looking for.



1703
29er / Re: RIP 9 Replica?
« on: May 09, 2014, 07:40:24 AM »
Specifically, I think you are wanting the RIP 9 RDO since that is the carbon model.  Below is a picture.  Since I'm into XC riding, the RIP 9 RDO would be overkill since it has way more suspension travel than I would need.  Also, the Chiner bikes tend to stick with 100mm rear travel XC designs because they are not really designed to take big hits or big drops.  Personally, I am surprised that none of the Chinese vendor have come out with a DW-Link style frame, for me a Turner Czar replica, but in Carbon, would be ideal.  Up until last year, Turner did not even make a carbon frame, but now they have a carbon Czar .  The Czar is a 100mm XC oriented design.

Here is a picture of a RIP 9 RDO:




Here is a picture of the XC oriented Turner Czar that I would love to see a Chinese replica of:



1704
29er / Re: IP-036 29er Full Suspension Chiner Vs Other FS Bikes
« on: May 09, 2014, 07:08:34 AM »
I wouldn't say that either one of the above pivot designs are better than the other, they may even be very close to the same.  Just because one end is mounted differently, doesn't mean the suspension performance would change very much.  However, also look at the pivot near the rear axle, on the Scott, the pivot is above the rear axle, on the Specialized it is below and slightly ahead of the rear axle.  This may make a bigger difference in how the suspension moves.

As for the IP-036, yes just grease the pivots prior to assembly, some people have replaced the bearings, they are not expensive, less than $40 for the set, still not enough for me to spend an additional $1,000 to $2,000 for a Scott or Specialized frame.


1705
29er / Re: Help me choose a frame..
« on: May 08, 2014, 07:09:42 PM »
May I ask what frame you pulled those dimensions from, that could help us understand what Chinese carbon frame is most like.

1706
29er / Re: IP-036 29er Full Suspension Chiner Vs Other FS Bikes
« on: May 08, 2014, 04:12:49 PM »
A little like the Stumpjumper FSR but look at the pivot and how it connects to the seat tube, it's a bit more like a Scott Spark.  The Stumpjumper connects to the seat tube, the Spark connects to the top tube, more like the IP-036.



Versus


1707
I purchased the 30mm wide XMIplay carbon rims, in my opinion that width is sufficient for the Cross Country riding I do.  I could have gone with a more narrow rim and save a little weight, or I could have gone wider and added weight and strength.  I tend to believe the rim width is a bit of a personal choice as to what you think you need.

Also, for the longest time, XC wheels were on the order of 24mm wide so the increased width is just giving people more choices, and there is nothing wrong with that.

1708
Hookless seems nice.  I've read that tire beads have improved and there is not necessarily a need for a clincher rim.  Without the bead hook, the rim is stronger since the sidewall of the rim can be shorter and thicker.

If I wanted to upgrade my DT Swiss wheels, I would order a set of the hookless 30mm wide rims and rebuild my wheels using my DT Swiss hubs with carbon hoops.  The DT Swiss rims are lighter but I'm sure they are not as strong or as stiff.

1709
29er / Re: My FM-057 Build Thread.
« on: May 08, 2014, 06:29:53 AM »
When I cut my stem, I noticed the headset cap needed the steer tub to be slightly recessed below the stem for the cap to fit flush to the stem.  That was the main thing that I needed to make sure I had right, if I had cut the stem flush with the stem, there would have been a gap between the cap and the stem.

Like you, I have a bit of extra steer tube above the stem.  I'm fine with that, I don't need to have the steer tube as short as possible.  If you change stems or move the fork to another bike, it's nice to have extra steer tube length.

SN, I noticed you like a pretty short stem, my two are 90mm and 100mm, yours looks like 50-70mm, that will make the steering pretty fast I would think.  Good for tight single track maybe.

The helmet looks good BTW.

1710
29er / Re: IP-036 29er Full Suspension Carbon Frame Build
« on: May 07, 2014, 09:57:56 PM »
Update:  Did a 10 mile loop after work today and I am really liking the riser bars.  Just makes the seated position work better for me.  My weight feels more evenly distributed front to back.  I adjusted the seat height and angle a bit and I think I've got the bike fitting me very well now.  Standing and pedaling is good too.  I think I will be keeping the riser bars on the IP-036 for a while, flat bars are going on the shelf.

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