Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: two-one on August 18, 2016, 03:16:34 AM
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I'm considering changing my FM-036 frame for a Workswell WCB-M-108 in size 20.5
(http://www.workswellbikes.com/upload/images/20160528170107_23015.jpg)
http://www.workswellbikes.com/web/view/196.html
I like the headangle and the stack/reach, and don't intend to use a dropper seatpost, so the 520mm seattube probably wouldn't bother me.
I just have to calculate the shock tune to go with it... probably L/L
Does anyone have experience with this frame? And maybe have a picture of the 20.5" model?
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I'm looking at this bike too! I currently have a CS-057 and love the bike but i'm thinking about having a FS again in my quiver. According to my research it has geometry very similar to the new Santa Cruz Tallboy 3 (except for the VPP suspension of course). The SC has received very good reviews as a one bike quiver killer on everything but the most extreme AM/Enduro drops. I'd hate to be the guinea pig but i might have to pull the trigger on one. BTW does anyone know anything about Workswell? I don't know anyone that has purchased from them..........
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Where is it possible to buy this frame? Can't find it on aliexpress
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Where is it possible to buy this frame? Can't find it on aliexpress
Their website is Workwellbikes.com.
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Yishun bikes has the same model, but they say that the 20.5" size hasn't been made yet... another couple of weeks.
http://www.yishunbike.com/mtb_frames -> LCFS902
I would still like to see a picture of that size before ordering. It would be nice to make a cool paintjob at the same time.
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The one concern i have is, given the fact the geometry is very similar to the Santa Cruz Tallboy 3 but doesn't have the VPP suspension, how is it going to handle and pedal? Is it just losing some of the pedal efficiency but most other characteristics are the same? This is why i'm cautious about being a guinea pig :-\
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Ooooohhhh... Yishun has short travel XC full suspension frames...
Must.... Stayyyy.... focused..... Must... build... hard tail... first..... [Caught in gravi-tron mind trickery FS vortex beam, LOL!]
Is yishun a quality frame?
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The one concern i have is, given the fact the geometry is very similar to the Santa Cruz Tallboy 3 but doesn't have the VPP suspension, how is it going to handle and pedal? Is it just losing some of the pedal efficiency but most other characteristics are the same? This is why i'm cautious about being a guinea pig :-\
The pivot point is a little bit higher than on the FM-036 frames, so the anti-squat numbers should be a little higher, creating more pedal-support.
also, the leverage ratio is a lot lower because of the 51mm stroke shock, so most aftermarket shocks will feel overdamped (a lot of damping), which should create a firm suspension feeling.
I would probably choose a Monarch Debonair RT3 shock, and retune it for this frame to a lower damping setting.
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I bought this frame from yishun and at the moment i'm pretty happy with it.
My config is 100mm reba on front and monarchXX shock. I'd say this is a racy setup, clearly XC. As two-one said suspension is more on firm side but with 25% sag i use all the travel. Suspension works but you don't really feel it.
The pivot point is a little bit higher than on the FM-036 frames, so the anti-squat numbers should be a little higher, creating more pedal-support.
32 chainring is the size to get 100% AS (chain is aligned with pivot point)
also, the leverage ratio is a lot lower because of the 51mm stroke shock, so most aftermarket shocks will feel overdamped (a lot of damping), which should create a firm suspension feeling.
I would probably choose a Monarch Debonair RT3 shock, and retune it for this frame to a lower damping setting.
Yes i think if you want to build a trail bike monarchXX is not the shock to go with this frame. High volume shocks will probably make the ride softer.
(I'm not very experienced in FS so that's the opinion from a guy coming from a XC hardtail)
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I bought this frame from yishun and at the moment i'm pretty happy with it.
My config is 100mm reba on front and monarchXX shock. I'd say this is a racy setup, clearly XC. As two-one said suspension is more on firm side but with 25% sag i use all the travel. Suspension works but you don't really feel it.
The pivot point is a little bit higher than on the FM-036 frames, so the anti-squat numbers should be a little higher, creating more pedal-support.
32 chainring is the size to get 100% AS (chain is aligned with pivot point)
also, the leverage ratio is a lot lower because of the 51mm stroke shock, so most aftermarket shocks will feel overdamped (a lot of damping), which should create a firm suspension feeling.
I would probably choose a Monarch Debonair RT3 shock, and retune it for this frame to a lower damping setting.
Yes i think if you want to build a trail bike monarchXX is not the shock to go with this frame. High volume shocks will probably make the ride softer.
(I'm not very experienced in FS so that's the opinion from a guy coming from a XC hardtail)
Cool! you're the first! I'm actually working on a paint job, and was planning to order it when I'm ready. Can you place a photo of your build?
I'm also wondering... don't you get any pedal strikes with the 100mm fork? 32t chainring sounds right on the money.
I wouldn't advise using a high-volume aircan, unless it's one with a high-volume negative chamber, like the Monarch Debonair, or a Fox EVOL aircan, otherwise you'll end up bottoming the suspension very often.
I'm still debating between a Monarch Debonair, or a Manitou Mcleod (without king-can).
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I'm also wondering... don't you get any pedal strikes with the 100mm fork? 32t chainring sounds right on the money.
No problem of pedal strikes, the bottom bracket doesn't seem so low. Many bikes now can be either 100 or 120mm front without problems (spark, kona heihei...)
I can check the bb height if you want and make photos soon.
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So about the Yishun LCFS902 (or Workswell WCB-M-108), i checked my bb height at 325mm with 100mm fork and 2,2 tyres, static measurement without SAG. As i said previously no problem of pedal strike in this configuration.
Here is what 19" frame looks like :
(https://s18.postimg.org/dg7bjjipx/lcfs9021.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dg7bjjipx/)
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So about the Yishun LCFS902 (or Workswell WCB-M-108), i checked my bb height at 325mm with 100mm fork and 2,2 tyres, static measurement without SAG. As i said previously no problem of pedal strike in this configuration.
Here is what 19,5 frame looks like :
(https://s18.postimg.org/dg7bjjipx/lcfs9021.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dg7bjjipx/)
How is the rear-triangle lateral stiffness? Can you twist the rear wheel sideways a lot?
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Good looking bike numberzero! I am considering one of these as well. Have you been able to take a final weight?
Can you give us more thoughts on the quality of ride? If there could be improvements is there anything you would change?
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Yo e comprado ese marco en workwell y llevo un poco mas de un mes esperando envio, también pedí uno de carretera con freno de disco! se me hace muy raro que tarden tanto en enviar.
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Yo e comprado ese marco en workwell y llevo un poco mas de un mes esperando envio, también pedí uno de carretera con freno de disco! se me hace muy raro que tarden tanto en enviar.
Workswell is doing a pretty bad job recently.
First someone from the company presented her/himself, but without real interaction.
And then poor communication on some recent issues.
If someone really like the models, they could use Sobato bikes instead, may be the same company after all, but under the relative protection of Aliexpress.
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La verdad que si están haciendo mal trabajo, me cambiaron la fecha de envió 3 veces, mañana dia 15 se supòne que me mandaran los dos articulos, en concreto :
WCB-M-108(29ER) y el WCB-R-081
estoy muy descontento con el trabajo de esta empresa
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Workswell is doing a pretty bad job recently.
First someone from the company presented her/himself, but without real interaction.
And then poor communication on some recent issues.
If someone really like the models, they could use Sobato bikes instead, may be the same company after all, but under the relative protection of Aliexpress.
This is a big bummer since I have been pretty happy with my 062...and the 108 so far has been the only open mold suspension frame that I actually like.
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I really don't understand the mindset of these sellers.. Christy from workswell talked to me about making a thread to open discussion and answer product questions.. I was fully supportive, even tried to explain to her Workswell frames had been getting a lot of attention on the forums, and that if she would could just provide some basic customer support and communication then I had zero doubts an increase in sales would follow. She starts a thread making one introductory post and then vanishes. It's baffling. It's free advertising with pretty minimal effort. Oh well.
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So about the Yishun LCFS902 (or Workswell WCB-M-108), i checked my bb height at 325mm with 100mm fork and 2,2 tyres, static measurement without SAG. As i said previously no problem of pedal strike in this configuration.
Here is what 19" frame looks like :
(https://s18.postimg.org/dg7bjjipx/lcfs9021.jpg) (https://postimg.org/image/dg7bjjipx/)
What travel fork and shock size are you running? On Yishun's site it says that the HTA is 68 degrees with a 120mm fork. I think that is a bit too slack for me. I'd want something around 69 or 70 degrees.
Thats a great looking bike.
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I'll try to sum up my opinions on the LCFS902.
First the frame quality is very good, the the best i had from chinese frames.
You can run everything internal, installation is simple and smooth. Good details like the removable front derailleur hanger and a cover for the hole if you don't use it.
Some cons : i think 34 chainring is the maximum you can use with 49mm ideal chainline due to clearance but is it really an issue for average riders?
Rear axle is still 142x12 and no 27,5+ possible but a good clearance with 2,2 tyres.
Have you been able to take a final weight?
No sorry but heavier than 10,5 kg for sure. They are not lying on the frame weight, i checked mine around 2kg.
About the geometry itself, i come from this : http://www.yishunbike.com/mtb_frames-77-29er-mtb-hardtail-light-carbon-frame-lcm903-lcm903 in 18" to 19" to keep the same reach.
I wanted something more aggressive and on this point i'm satisfied. The head angle (from 71 to9 w about 6ith the 100mm fork) + helped by rear suspension is really great on downhills, more confidence so more speed.
I needed to change the stem from 80x-6° to 80x-17° because it was a bit more difficult on steep climb and flat cornering, probably because front wheel was less wheighed, now it works as i want:)
Ride quality is very good, the bike accelerates really fast, i barely miss the HT sensations.
I use all the travel avalaible, suspension do the job without let you noticing it, pedal bob is minimal so very satisfied but I can't compare with other XC FS.
How is the rear-triangle lateral stiffness? Can you twist the rear wheel sideways a lot?
I only use the lockout on roads and the bike is hardtail like in this situation, rear is stiff.
I will be curious to know how it works with a more "enduro" shock and a 120mm fork.
What travel fork and shock size are you running? On Yishun's site it says that the HTA is 68 degrees with a 120mm fork. I think that is a bit too slack for me. I'd want something around 69 or 70 degrees.
190x51 shock and 100mm fork. And yes a i said slack HTA is something you can like or dislike.
About shock size, the new wheeler falcon (very similar frame) uses a 184x48 shock with 100mm fork and 190x51 with 120mm fork which gives 100mm rear travel instead of 110, lower bike, slacker head angle so probably a safest position for downhill if you stay with a 100mm front fork?
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How is the rear-triangle lateral stiffness? Can you twist the rear wheel sideways a lot?
I only use the lockout on roads and the bike is hardtail like in this situation, rear is stiff.
Ha, I'm not worried about the up/down stiffness, but I wouldn't want any vagueness during agressive cornering over rough terrain, something my current FM-036 sadly has too much of :(
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hoy les e solicitado la devolución del dinero por que han dicho otra vez que tampoco que mandan hoy los cuadros.
probare a comprar a yishunbike LCFS902 , alguien sabe el tiempo de envió ???
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Ha, I'm not worried about the up/down stiffness, but I wouldn't want any vagueness during agressive cornering over rough terrain, something my current FM-036 sadly has too much of :(
I meant lateral stiffness, when out of the saddle (locked or not) i don't feel any problematic flex, no problem either during riding. I'm not a heavy guy but can ride and push hard :)
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What travel fork and shock size are you running? On Yishun's site it says that the HTA is 68 degrees with a 120mm fork. I think that is a bit too slack for me. I'd want something around 69 or 70 degrees.
190x51 shock and 100mm fork. And yes a i said slack HTA is something you can like or dislike.
About shock size, the new wheeler falcon (very similar frame) uses a 184x48 shock with 100mm fork and 190x51 with 120mm fork which gives 100mm rear travel instead of 110, lower bike, slacker head angle so probably a safest position for downhill if you stay with a 100mm front fork?
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I would the 100mm fork on my 062. That should bring the HA to about 69 deg.
I have Banshee Spitfire with a 66 HA ...so I want the 108 to me more XC oriented.
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Alright, as we say in the Netherlands "the bullit is through the church".... I've committed to building one of these bikes by ordering a 20.5" model. It's going to be a nice bright azure color.
I've also bought a secondhand Cane Creek Double Barrel Inline shock. I hope this one doesn't break. like so many other ones do...
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Hi everyone, Alessio from Italy...next week I'll start my build on this frame, 19" size for me.After months I decided to give it a try !
Mine will go with these components:
Formula 33 @130mm
RS Monarch RT3 Debonair
Yep Uptimizer 155mm stealth dropper post and carbon saddle
No-brand carbon crankset with 32T oval AbsolutBlack ring
Sram GX 11speedtrigger, derailleur and X1 cassette
Avis XX carbon brakes, 180+160mm
Renthal Fatbar Carbon 780 handlebar +10rise (probably cut it at 760)
Carbon stem60 or 70mm
Wheels 24 spokes staright pull hubs laced with DT super competition spokes and carbon hookless rims 30/24mm
Tires are maxxis ardent and onza canis at the moment.
Should sit around 11,5kg so I expect a lot of fun from this toy!
I'll post some pics as soon as possible
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The 27.5er forum is kinda dead, so I'm going to ask here:
I'm planning on building the 27.5er equivalent of this frame (WCB-M-109 / LCFS702). Do you think the SRAM XX1 Q156 would fit? I would be using the 170mm cranks and have relatively small feet (size 8 US). Thanks in advance!
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update: frame arrived today, took 2 weeks but one on lazy italian custom system :-D
Frame was wrapped up in a really bombproof package as seems usual from Peter, headset box opened itself and pieces were moving inside the carton box but lucky to have everytjing.
Frame is really well shaped, nice and solid, swingarm works free and I'm surprised with metal parts quality; we're almost used to crappy chinese screws and parts, but this stand in another league: well done and many thanks for the service Peter !
You also find a set of different covers for cable routing.
Weight for Large (19") size in 2230 grams (4,91 lb) with all hardware and rear axle.
Can't wait to start build it !
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update: frame arrived today, took 2 weeks but one on lazy italian custom system :-D
Frame was wrapped up in a really bombproof package as seems usual from Peter, headset box opened itself and pieces were moving inside the carton box but lucky to have everytjing.
Frame is really well shaped, nice and solid, swingarm works free and I'm surprised with metal parts quality; we're almost used to crappy chinese screws and parts, but this stand in another league: well done and many thanks for the service Peter !
You also find a set of different covers for cable routing.
Weight for Large (19") size in 2230 grams (4,91 lb) with all hardware and rear axle.
Can't wait to start build it !
Peter is not with Workswell.
Which frame did you order? Any picture available :) ?
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Posted here 'cause seems the most complete thread about this Xc/Trail frame no matter how it's named ! Mine came from Xmcarbonspeed
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http://imgur.com/IkV61TG
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http://imgur.com/Gtbaw5g
http://imgur.com/EZhJR7f
http://imgur.com/k9XneYG
http://imgur.com/UQaaxL6
http://imgur.com/bjJuY7l
Hope image hosting in working fine!
One pic is with a frame bag from Salsa Cycles fitted; it's Spearfish frame model, my previous frame and it fit perfectly, so no problem for some bikepacking trip with my new chiner.
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How much for the frame from Peter?
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about 750$ with rear axle, headset and a spare derailleur hanger
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Including shipping?
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Including shipping?
765$ including shipping via EMS