Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: Sdp74 on July 10, 2022, 01:47:38 PM
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let's chat friendly.
https://a.aliexpress.com/_vBm9LQ
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What! Whoa that is crazy! I never thought l would see the day but here it is
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I just saw this today and rushed over here to post it. Looks like I was late!
So who's going to try one?
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They're not even trying to be subtle about who they are ripping off here. Check out the promotional material.
And several of the images on the listing are lifted straight from Scott's website.
Feels kind of dirty that it's this blatant. Right down to the paint scheme.
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nothing new.....they did the same with the Lexon GFX (Gravel) ....used the promo pictures from Scott Addict gravel.
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That's quick! Even including Scott marketing material :o
2500gr for the 15" version feels kind of heavy, otherwise a very nice frame!
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Weight includes the rear shock, Rock Shox Delux Select+ which should weight around 350gr.
BTW Lexon might have some issues in terms of patent:
It is really too similar to Scott, I wouldn’t be surprised if they will be forced to stop the production.
If not, I will buy one! ;D
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Ok, who told these jokers I was looking for a new frame? ;D Guess it's "wait & see" now, and see who's going to be first.
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are we hoping for too much from the Chinese hardware on this?
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are we hoping for too much from the Chinese hardware on this?
Exactly my thinking.
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Weight includes the rear shock, Rock Shox Delux Select+ which should weight around 350gr.
BTW Lexon might have some issues in terms of patent:
It is really too similar to Scott, I wouldn’t be surprised if they will be forced to stop the production.
If not, I will buy one! ;D
Patent?? in China? good luck with that ::)
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there is actually a Lexon Spark, but it's FM356
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Looks interesting. But I'd want confirmation that this is not one of their bikes made by TopCarbon, after the farce with the Lexon / TC gravel frames, and the non-existent support from either party to the affected customers.
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TanTan FM356 - Head tube angle 66 degrees - http://tantancycling.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=689 (http://tantancycling.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=689)
Carbonda FM356 - Head tube angle 69 degrees - https://www.carbonda.com/mountain/full-suspension/94.html (https://www.carbonda.com/mountain/full-suspension/94.html)
Lexon Spark - Head tube angle 67 degrees - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832652559655.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.39232e0eGDtBQ9 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832652559655.html?spm=a2g0s.8937460.0.0.39232e0eGDtBQ9)
Lexon has published conflicting data for the bottom bracket and the weight for the Spark frame. BB86 vs BB92 & 1230g vs 2915g.
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Should change the title to Lexon Spirit or half the thread will be about the Lexon Spark.
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Should change the title to Lexon Spirit or half the thread will be about the Lexon Spark.
I definitely agree with this. There's plenty of Spark clones & other "Spark" named bikes/frames listed here already, so why add to the confusion.
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I have tried to change the title, but it seems that it is only changed in my initial post.
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I have tried to change the title, but it seems that it is only changed in my initial post.
I see it as "New Lexon Spirit" on the thread listing page, on the title of the thread and also in your first post. Maybe one of the mods changed the topic for you but it looks ok at this end.
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This frame looks great. I may be in when a longer travel version comes out.
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The more I see the new Scott Spark under riders snd being ridden the more I like the frame design. I was not a fan initially but it's growing on me.
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The more I see the new Scott Spark under riders snd being ridden the more I like the frame design. I was not a fan initially but it's growing on me.
Remember to keep in mind that this is a huge amount of money for a knockoff from a brand with a fairly mixed (putting it nicely) record. There will be copycat type designs from names that have a better reputation, you'll know where it's made, and which have customer service (on top of being cheaper).
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It is a lot of money for a Chinese frameset
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Has anyone taken the leap yet?
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I wonder how the sag meter is made and how the shock absorber travel is viewed.
just as interesting how it feels in the ride compared to carbonda fm936/909
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https://youtu.be/_M84ug555PI https://youtu.be/uNatqbTy0o8
To who want know, this video is from a brazilian guy who bought the frame.
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Yes I was posting the same thing. You can see a lot of questions on the comments below his video, but all in portuguese.
This guy should check geometry and check the rear travel if its really 110mm. Also the rear triangle should be analyzed in deep, stiffness seems very different from the scott's one.
Id like to give this frame a try. Who's with me.
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Id like to give this frame a try. Who's with me.
I think you'd have to be crazy given the great Chinese options on the market, with proven designs, performance and build quality, for much lower prices, and without the Lexon cloud hanging over them.
As I said before, there will be other Scott Spark '23 clones / inspired-by frames, from better sellers with a more transparent OEM (Lexon just claim they make and design everything - they certainly don't).
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For those that can't see the video, quote the post. The youtube address will show up in the text, copy and paste that into the "address" bar in a new tab, hit enter.
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Has anyone purchased a Lexon Spirit, built it and ride it in the past month?
Looking at the specifications between the 2 bikes, I am wondering how much the Deluxe RLC3 shock will handle versus the Nude shock that comes in the Scott. Perhaps if one installs the Nude shock and levers, the Spirit would handle the same, plus one could access the shock's pressure stem to add air without having to remove the shock.
I don't see the 52/52 head set on the Spirit having the same adjustable HT angle feature like the Scott. I presume this capability could be added.
Besides these differences, it is tempting to purchase one, except first, it would be nice to get input from someone who is actually riding one.
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I think you'd have to be crazy given the great Chinese options on the market, with proven designs, performance and build quality, for much lower prices, and without the Lexon cloud hanging over them.
As I said before, there will be other Scott Spark '23 clones / inspired-by frames, from better sellers with a more transparent OEM (Lexon just claim they make and design everything - they certainly don't).
RDY, what would you recommend for 120-130 rear travel? I am browsing up and down the forum (new to this) and unsure of quality.. thanks.
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RDY, what would you recommend for 120-130 rear travel? I am browsing up and down the forum (new to this) and unsure of quality.. thanks.
Probably the FM936 with the new 120mm rear option that will be offered soon. Run it with a Mara IL shock and 130mm fork - maybe the new Ohlins one if you can afford it.
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I am becoming captivated with the Spirit frame.
I have been researching more about this frame and have started communications with Lexon. It appears that the Scott Spark has a head tube angle of 66.5 degrees, with ZS56/28.6/40.0 Integrated cable headset cups. One can install zero offset cups or keep the cups that allow one to rotate them for a either a HT angle of 65.8 or 67.2.
Head tube differences:
The Spirit has a fixed HT angle of 67.2 degrees that uses a IS52/IS52 integrated cable Headset.
The Spark uses what appears to be a custom Acros angle headset: https://acros-components.com/en/headsets/angle-headset-1-52/52?number=310.52.591F-HT110AM&c=46
(These headsets have protruding pins in them that allow them to be flipped 180 degrees. The Scott Spark has little notches machined into the Head tube portion of the frame to clock/orient the cups and hold them in place.)
I asked Lexon if their Spirit has this feature/provision, and if not, can they add the grooves.
Rear shock differences.
I believe it is known that the Scott Spark uses 2 versions of custom Nude5 shocks with a mid position set point. The Spirit uses either the Rockshox Deluxe Selected+, or Rockshox Deluxe RLC3 with remote. Both of these shocks have their air fill port located coming out the side of the end of the shock. This makes one have to remove the shock in order to add air/adjust the pressure. (Not fun to do if you are out in the field.)
Frame differences.
Scott uses a BB92 bottom bracket and the Spirit uses a BSA73.
There are some very slight differences in the front section of the frame geometries, resulting in slight wheelbase differences. Scott Large = 1190, lexon Large = 1181.
I can't predict if these small difference would affect handling or the ride. I suspect the Spirit using T800/T1000 fibers would have more of an impact versus Scott's use of carbon nanotube reinforced epoxy resin and T1000G fiber.
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I'd really strongly advise not going for that frame. You're theorycrafting their marketing spiel about what looks like a not particularly good copy of a fairly novel Scott design. The performance of the Scott isn't extraordinary - the USP is the 'clean' look and hidden shock. For the Spirit, I think you can safely assume it won't perform as well as the Scott, and may have some nasty surprises. Plus it costs the moon as far as Chinese MTB frames are concerned. As the saying goes, if it looks too good to be true, it probably is ....
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I have to comment that I do not completely agree with your advise. Here's why.
1. Regarding costs: Most of the other comparable recommended frames I recently reviewed in the $500 to $700 USD price range do not include the shock and remote. The supplied RockShox Deluxe Nude RLC3, with remote, costs around $500 these days.($520 retail.) (This puts the $1,289.99 price down to a $790+- price.
This is only around $100 more than other decent carbon frames being sold on Aliexpress.
2. The stated weight of a 15.5" frame is 2500 grams. Take off the 500 grams for the shock and you have around a 2000 gram frame. Not too shabby of a frame weight. Perhaps worth an extra $100?
3. Your comment on the performance of the frame is only speculative. I don't disagree that there is a slight risk that it could turn out to be a piece of garbage, but looking at the frame geometry, I would guess it should handle at least 90% the same as the Scott, and I doubt there will be any "surprises".
4. Overall, the reviews of the Gen 4 Scott Spark 4 have been positive. I have a friend in Seattle area who purchased a New integrated shock spark. I was able to test ride it. I was impressed with it overall. I liked it better than my aged and beat to death Kona Process.
Will the Lexon clone perform similar to the original? Hard to tell unless a few of us suckers step up and take one for the team.
(We need a good review of a built up one to get a better realistic feel for how it performs.)
If I eventually purchase one, it wont be until early next year. I already have another build I am working on.
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Posting a few more details.
Looking at the Lexon store filtered under mtb frames, Lexon has 3 ads up for the Spirit frame.
- Total listed as being sold = 27. (Not very many sold , and not really a good sign...)
- Reviews Posted: 9 total. 3.2 star averaged rating. (About 32% 5 star)
- Most common positive comment is that everyone states that the frame itself appears to be of high quality and finish.
- Most common negative comment is regarding the use of a shock that has the air fill port on the side, and one cannot access it without removing the shock to add air pressure. This problem is stated on their pages. (I wonder if one could purchase the frame without shock and install the official Rockshox Scott Nude 5 shock?) Since the shock used on the new spark is "Scott specific" Lexon probably can't purchase the shock they really should be supplying.
- There are a couple of complaints that the bearing and bushings used on the main pivot has problems, but appears that Lexon has worked with those buyers to correct.
Based on the listed problems, I will sit on the fence for a while before deciding how much I really like this frame. (At least Lexon has not deleted all of the negative comments. Helps them out a little in my mind even though it lessens the probability of making more sales.)
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I totaly agree with RDY.
@Tijoe : sidluxe ultimate is 250 $ and 280g, not 500 $ / 500g.
The lexon is overpriced and you probably have a better ride and much cheaper bike with a classic kinematic chiner.
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Following the pictures and comments on aliexpress, the shock included is a plain deluxe, not a NUDE version; and the weight is way higher than the 2500g stated.
The aestetics are amazing though!
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I totaly agree with RDY.
@Tijoe : sidluxe ultimate is 250 $ and 280g, not 500 $ / 500g.
The lexon is overpriced and you probably have a better ride and much cheaper bike with a classic kinematic chiner.
See Pics attached. The option with the remote is a Nude Version of the shock. I confirmed this with Lexon as well.
(But not the Scott special Nude 5 version, with mid set point.)
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Following the pictures and comments on aliexpress, the shock included is a plain deluxe, not a NUDE version; and the weight is way higher than the 2500g stated.
The aestetics are amazing though!
The one review that is posted indicates the frame weighs almost 3kg. But the poster later on states that the pic of the scale includes a chain, and rear derailleur. Another pic of the frame on the scale shows that the frame also has a rear caliper, internal routed cables and a front hydraulic lever. I wonder how much weight that adds?.
I read the weigh of the shock ast 500 grams. Turns out that is the total "package" weight. Other listings indicate around 230 grams. That does put about another 10 oz back onto the frame. (Ouch!)
Does make one wonder why a frame so similar to the Scott Spark would have this large of a weight gap...
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The one review that is posted indicates the frame weighs almost 3kg. But the poster later on states that the pic of the scale includes a chain, and rear derailleur. Another pic of the frame on the scale shows that the frame also has a rear caliper, internal routed cables and a front hydraulic lever. I wonder how much weight that adds?.
I read the weigh of the shock ast 500 grams. Turns out that is the total "package" weight. Other listings indicate around 230 grams. That does put about another 10 oz back onto the frame. (Ouch!)
Does make one wonder why a frame so similar to the Scott Spark would have this large of a weight gap...
Because it's not a Scott Spark
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I would not get into the weights discussions for these OEM frames, last Scott spark frame of 2023 with HMX-SL carbon is declared for 1870grams with Ammo and Hardware!
the slightly less precious HMX is given from 1990grams which is impressive as well. so what's actually the purpose of this discussion? if you like the clone just take it but don't expect it's the real thing...
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The weight difference is going to be in materials (that nanotube reinforced resin in the Scott is a big advantage over regular carbon-resin matrixes) and the fact that the layup is likely a lot less optimized, partly as a result of the materials difference. I bet the pivot bearings and hardware are also a little heavier.
Personally I’d like to try one of these out, just to see what it’s like; I’ll never put down the money for a branded XC bike on this level and it would be neat to experience this particular suspension system first hand. Wouldn’t expect it to be that special in terms of kinematics but the low slung center of gravity would probably be nice, and it does seem inherently pretty stiff.
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I am sure we are all aware that Scott is making several variations of the 2022+ Spark. The top-end frame, is the only one that uses nanotube reinforced resin. HMX-SL version where the Frame and fork retails for $6500 and the frame/shock weight around 1870 grams. The other versions use lower tensile strength carbon fiber than the Spirit's T800/T1000 fibers. (As stated earlier, RC weighs about 1990 grams with shock, and costs around $5K.)
I guess that from my perspective, spending around $1500 on this frame (with delivery) could be a good experiment. What if it only handles around 80% as good as a Spark. Still could end up handling well, and its weight isn't that bad. (These days in the bicycle world, $1500 isn't much money.)
The FM936 would cost less money and is proven, likely heavier than the Spirit. but it would be fun to try something new.
I am sure it would be at least as capable as my 2017 Kona process, and end up weighing 5 pounds less.
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I highly doubt the FM936 in either standard or SL layup is heavier than the Spirit.
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I highly doubt the FM936 in either standard or SL layup is heavier than the Spirit.
Isn't the FM909 even lighter ?
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Isn't the FM909 even lighter ?
Yes, but my statement still stands ...
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I spent a long time reading/viewing 575 posts / 39 pages, that span close to 2 years regarding the FM909. Then even more time reading about the FM936.
On the internet, there still aren't any public/posted reviews on the FM909, and out of the 575 posts, there are less than 10 comments about the ride quality or capabilities of the FM909. Appears that the FM909 took a long time to be a production worthy frame. I can't really tell if all the problems are sorted out for an "Inexpensive",close to $1K frame + shipping + custom paint.
The FM936 appears to be sorted and does have good reviews and history.
I am communicating with Lexon, asking for more details. (Like actual weights with the frame on a scale, of all of the frame sizes without shock.)
Time will tell...
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Lexon replied this morning and only replied to one of my questions. I had asked them how much a 19" Spirit weighs. They replied that they do not have any in stock, and if I ordered one, they would tell me how much it weighs when it is ready to ship.
They sent me 2 images of a 15.5" frame and an image of the shock on a scale.
Frame and shock is shown to weigh 2460 grams and the shock 345 grams. (Frame weight = 2115) Who knows if this is what all the 15.5 frames actually weigh.
(Why would they lie?) ;D :P
They wrote that they would deduct $120 if I want a frame without a shock. That is way to little of a credit.
After digging deeper and spending way to much time researching this frame, I get the feeling that Lexon released the Spirit to soon in their development cycle. I like the frame overall, but until they supply shocks with a workable fill port on the bottom trunnion, plus refine how you set the sag and what appears to be some bearing assembly problems, I will wait on being a Guinea pig.
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I'm not completely sold that hiding everything inside the frame is always the best idea. While internal cable routing is nice and clean, it does make servicing your bike a bit of a PIA (i.e. dropping the rear triangle for bearing service with internally routed brake line and derailleur cable). Now we are seeing shocks inside of frames.
A friend has the Scott Spark, it is an absolutely beautiful bike, but while riding and unbeknownst to him the access cover to the shock fell off. The bike shop where he purchased it from was unable to get a replacement from Scott (maybe this has changed and Scott now offers replacement covers as it has been awhile since I've seen him). The shop just ended up covering the access hole with tape. While this isn't a game changer per se, but if Scott has some detail issues with the Spark, I can't help but think of the underlying issues there may be with the Spirit. Just my two cents...
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My latest response from Lexon regarding the Spirit: (After I wrote them I wasn't purchasing a frame from then until they gave me an actual weight for a 19" and fixed the air fill port access problem on the Spirit frame.)
>We are about to install the newly updated frame. You can pay attention to us, my friend. The new frame has an opening at the bottom. Thank you for your understanding. I am waiting for a reply.
Have you guys ready any articles about the New Scott Luman racing e-Mtn. Bike ? It appears to me that Scott is staying committed with the internal hidden shock frame design and have plans to expand this approach to other of their bicycle offerings.
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...I like the frame overall, but until they supply shocks with a workable fill port on the bottom trunnion, plus refine how you set the sag and what appears to be some bearing assembly problems, I will wait on being a Guinea pig.
Well, for all y'all waiting for that guy to take one for the team, you're in luck, I expect mine at the end of the month. It will be a 19" with the Deluxe Select + and that rather tasteful Spirit paint theme. Before ordering, I searched and translated the sparse user reviews and opinions, including from this forum. All the Scott Spark, and other Scott models employing the same shock arrangement are selling well, perhaps this is why Scott was not entertaining any requests from me to buy a Spark 910 frame only. What follows are the reasons I decided to toss the dice:
1) I will not be flogging the bike as hard as some. I'm going on 68, and mostly ride loamy forest singletracks, albeit briskly for me. Primary goal is to soften the shock loads to my feet and knees. I'm looking for a short to mid-travel, full-sprung frame upgrade over my Scott Scale 950 XC hardtail converted ebike.
2) The Spirit frame is the cats meow for DIY ebike builders as the frame has an open triangle which facilitates the easy installation of larger, all-day battery packs. This battery mounting issue is a major challenge for mid drive ebike builders, and leads to some real sh%tty looking builds with insufficient range.
3) The best review I found was a Brazilian YouTuber. He takes that thing on some pretty extreme tracks, and he seems pleased with revised shock linkage parts sent to him by Lexon. Shame on the manufacturer to release a damn useful frame but then use their customers for beta testing. In my eyes, supplying revised parts does wash away some of their shame and may keep the project a viable business venture for them. Or at least keep it alive to make it to the next design fiasco... or the possible patent infringement suit from Scott. I have some ideas on how to mitigate the shocks air fill port.
4) Thailand is on favored nation trading status with China, so low shipping and duty, I'm at USD 1,075 with shipping but before duty.
I'll be running the Ryet UD CF asymmetric rim 29er wheels with Schwalbe 2.4" Wicked Will's, definitely recommend these bargain wheels, been flogging a set hard daily for nearly a year, popped in one new rear bearing. $287.++ for the pair. Bike will likely be running the lightweight CYC Photon motor eventually, but will initially be built with a Bafang BBSHD. Wish me luck!
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I just purchased a 2023 Spark RC Team Black. I can post any info anyone might need for a comparison with the Lexon Spirit.
Don't worry, I fully acknowledge buying this OEM bike at OEM prices and then upgrading almost everything on it was a dumb decision and I should have just built a FM936 or FM909. And I'm not being sarcastic about that... The price for these Scott Sparks is insane.
Basically it was $5k for the bike. I ordered the following:
LightBicycle XC925 Recon Pros with CXRay and Onyx Vesper hubs
X01 Crankset
X01 Cassette
GX AXS
Carbon Handlebar
Transfer SL post
XT 180mm rotors
Take-off parts will sell for maybe $800-900. Maybe.
So basically I paid $4200 for a frame/shock/fork/stem/Twin-lock... The value proposition is hard to see. But I'll see how it rides.
The internal cable routing, while cool, seems like a pain in the ass. It arrived with a kinked rear brake line that impacted performance (had to pump the lever to get power even after a bleed). I'm working with the shop to get it replaced under warranty.
The twin-lock seems great (haven't ridden it yet). The lock-out is full lock front, nearly locked rear. The 'traction' mode limits travel and bike rides high (low amount of sag). The full unlock mode lowers the bike into it's full sag setting. It's neat to feel the difference.
(I haven't lost my way, about to order a Chinese titanium hardtail for an SS build soon.)
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I just purchased a 2023 Spark RC Team Black...
But... but... Vip' for this amount of $$$ you could have had a lighter bike with XX1, AXS reverb, a power meter, brakes that stop and even XTR rotors ;D
Joking, a friend has the Spark and is delighted. Happy riding with it!
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But... but... Vip' for this amount of $$$ you could have had a lighter bike with XX1, AXS reverb, a power meter, brakes that stop and even XTR rotors ;D
Hey, it has XT brakes and rotors, they'll stop! ;D
But yeah I did a full build up of an FM936 (on paper) and was at about $7k with top line everything as you describe. Maybe a bit less if you can scoop some deals. I'm still a big advocate of taking the Chinese/open-mould route.
Right now I'm on track for a 23.8-24.0lb build. A heavyweight compared to my Chiner hardtail, but pretty light considering the bike/frame. Heck, even the $15k top-of-the-line Spark RC is only 22.9lbs.
I still want a reverb, but they're heavy and expensive. First deal I can find, I'm on it.
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Well, for all y'all waiting for that guy to take one for the team, you're in luck, I expect mine at the end of the month. It will be a 19" with the Deluxe Select + and that rather tasteful Spirit paint theme. Before ordering, I searched and translated the sparse user reviews and opinions, including from this forum. All the Scott Spark, and other Scott models employing the same shock arrangement are selling well, perhaps this is why Scott was not entertaining any requests from me to buy a Spark 910 frame only. What follows are the reasons I decided to toss the dice:
1) I will not be flogging the bike as hard as some. I'm going on 68, and mostly ride loamy forest singletracks, albeit briskly for me. Primary goal is to soften the shock loads to my feet and knees. I'm looking for a short to mid-travel, full-sprung frame upgrade over my Scott Scale 950 XC hardtail converted ebike.
2) The Spirit frame is the cats meow for DIY ebike builders as the frame has an open triangle which facilitates the easy installation of larger, all-day battery packs. This battery mounting issue is a major challenge for mid drive ebike builders, and leads to some real sh%tty looking builds with insufficient range.
3) The best review I found was a Brazilian YouTuber. He takes that thing on some pretty extreme tracks, and he seems pleased with revised shock linkage parts sent to him by Lexon. Shame on the manufacturer to release a damn useful frame but then use their customers for beta testing. In my eyes, supplying revised parts does wash away some of their shame and may keep the project a viable business venture for them. Or at least keep it alive to make it to the next design fiasco... or the possible patent infringement suit from Scott. I have some ideas on how to mitigate the shocks air fill port.
4) Thailand is on favored nation trading status with China, so low shipping and duty, I'm at USD 1,075 with shipping but before duty.
I'll be running the Ryet UD CF asymmetric rim 29er wheels with Schwalbe 2.4" Wicked Will's, definitely recommend these bargain wheels, been flogging a set hard daily for nearly a year, popped in one new rear bearing. $287.++ for the pair. Bike will likely be running the lightweight CYC Photon motor eventually, but will initially be built with a Bafang BBSHD. Wish me luck!
Thank you man for sharing this. Your idea is brave and interesting. I cant wait to see something done!!
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I received a message from Lexon asking me to take a look at their updated Spirit frame. They claim that the Problems are fixed, and new lower price. Looks like they will sell the frame without a shock for about $1K, and they have added a second rear shock option by X-fusion. (I Know nothing about this brand)
Time to pull the trigger? and be able to order and receive by spring?
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804316455323.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.189238daGEgwWF&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=US
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Well, for all y'all waiting for that guy to take one for the team, you're in luck, I expect mine at the end of the month. It will be a 19" with the Deluxe Select + and that rather tasteful Spirit paint theme. Before ordering, I searched and translated the sparse user reviews and opinions, including from this forum. All the Scott Spark, and other Scott models employing the same shock arrangement are selling well, perhaps this is why Scott was not entertaining any requests from me to buy a Spark 910 frame only. What follows are the reasons I decided to toss the dice:
1) I will not be flogging the bike as hard as some. I'm going on 68, and mostly ride loamy forest singletracks, albeit briskly for me. Primary goal is to soften the shock loads to my feet and knees. I'm looking for a short to mid-travel, full-sprung frame upgrade over my Scott Scale 950 XC hardtail converted ebike.
2) The Spirit frame is the cats meow for DIY ebike builders as the frame has an open triangle which facilitates the easy installation of larger, all-day battery packs. This battery mounting issue is a major challenge for mid drive ebike builders, and leads to some real sh%tty looking builds with insufficient range.
3) The best review I found was a Brazilian YouTuber. He takes that thing on some pretty extreme tracks, and he seems pleased with revised shock linkage parts sent to him by Lexon. Shame on the manufacturer to release a damn useful frame but then use their customers for beta testing. In my eyes, supplying revised parts does wash away some of their shame and may keep the project a viable business venture for them. Or at least keep it alive to make it to the next design fiasco... or the possible patent infringement suit from Scott. I have some ideas on how to mitigate the shocks air fill port.
4) Thailand is on favored nation trading status with China, so low shipping and duty, I'm at USD 1,075 with shipping but before duty.
I'll be running the Ryet UD CF asymmetric rim 29er wheels with Schwalbe 2.4" Wicked Will's, definitely recommend these bargain wheels, been flogging a set hard daily for nearly a year, popped in one new rear bearing. $287.++ for the pair. Bike will likely be running the lightweight CYC Photon motor eventually, but will initially be built with a Bafang BBSHD. Wish me luck!
Got it yet?
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Any updates on this frame? Who's riding one? I want to know how badly I wasted my money on the Scott.
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I received a message from Lexon asking me to take a look at their updated Spirit frame. They claim that the Problems are fixed, and new lower price. Looks like they will sell the frame without a shock for about $1K, and they have added a second rear shock option by X-fusion. (I Know nothing about this brand)
Time to pull the trigger? and be able to order and receive by spring?
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804316455323.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.189238daGEgwWF&mp=1&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=US
Link currently shows as “item unavailable” for me (USA).
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You are probably linked to an older ad. This link shows them in stock.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804548751411.html?ug_edm_item_id=3256804548751411&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21US%20%241%2C332.99%21US%20%24999.74%21%21%21%21%21%402102f7a616787274625618653d8f8c%2112000031812148079%21edm&edm_click_module=alg_product_l1r2_2937365560&creative_img_ind=1&tracelog=rowan&rowan_id1=aeug_edm_41192_1_en_US_2023-03-13&rowan_msg_id=tijoCOWS_41192_%2403437c767b354130b54905d0a3465d43&ck=in_edm_other&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa&_randl_shipto=US
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Lexon tends to renew their links often. Probably to clear out the poor reviews lol
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The new links are to their "next generation" revised frame that has supposedly fixed the problems purchasers were complaining about.
I would like to know it the "nude deluxe" Scott version 165x45(TR) will still work in this frame. Lexon shock specs is a 165mmx38mm Trunnion Rear shock.
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Found one more youtuber from Russia showing problems with the frame:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UG6l0oxDdgs
Sounds like the support from Lexon was horrible and he ended up returning the frame at his own cost, and after having paid custom fees.
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After watching that last video posted, it's clear to me there's absolutely no comparison between the Lexon and the Scott. As mentioned earlier, I have a 2023 Spark and the fit/finish is on another planet when compared to what was shown on that Lexon in that video. Now I feel a *bit* better about the obnoxious amount Scott charges for the Spark.
On a tangentially related note, the Spark has been excellent so far. 250 miles on it. It is far more capable than I am, that much is clear. Twin Lock is pretty great as well. It really makes the bike in my opinion.
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To be fair, That specific video is for a first generation frame. Lexon claims that if you received a first generation frame that has problems they will replace it with the second generation. (I don't know about shipping costs to return your old frame. This appears to be negotiable with them.)
I am still hoping someone stateside will order and receive one and they can provide a better review. I am holding off on ordering one for now because I am distracted with another build and don't want to spend the money on one of these frames yet.
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Follow up report, 2022 Lexon Spirit EMTB build. Coming onto 1,600km of 70/30 off road use without issue, and that is after adding an air fill port for the rear shock, and a 5mm hole in same vicinity as part of an anti rotation device for the drive motor. Two additional holes were added to the down tube for epoxied-in rivnuts to better secure 48v 17.5Ah battery. I decided to stay with the 140mm of front travel on the X-Fusion 34 fork, acknowledging that the geometry calls for 120mm front with 100 rear. Absolutely love the 67.2 head angle which reflects the trend toward slacker head angles on XC full sus frames. I ordered and received a spare MY 2023 3-piece bell crank assy for the rear sus just to have it, Lexon sent it for a 30 buck S&H fee.
The good: headtube cable routing, sweet geometry, cush air-flex ride helped by CF wheelset and CF bars, gorgeous paint job which I protected with 3M Rhino Skin, and last but not least, low cost-- as I basically threw existing parts onto an $1,075 frame (with decent shock, headset, and axles included). The less than good: rear triangle is a little flexy but tolerable, had to lathe-up improved spacers for for rear sus external linkage arms and replace damaged bearings, no metallic insert for NDS rear axle hole.
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I tend to order at least one or two MTB frames a year just because I love building them up. I ordered the 2023 Spirit a few weeks ago and am expecting it anyday. I'll update y'all when it arrives with some photos and do a build log.
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I tend to order at least one or two MTB frames a year just because I love building them up. I ordered the 2023
Good luck, I'll be looking forwards to seeing your creation. One tip I might offer, is there is the potential that the internal portion of the bell crank can pinch/abrade at an internal routed dropper cable. I resolved this by epoxying in a 3" piece CF fishing rod tubing to guide the cable off to one side of the seat tube.
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Follow up report, 2022 Lexon Spirit EMTB build. Coming onto 1,600km of 70/30 off road use without issue, and that is after adding an air fill port for the rear shock, and a 5mm hole in same vicinity as part of an anti rotation device for the drive motor. Two additional holes were added to the down tube for epoxied-in rivnuts to better secure 48v 17.5Ah battery. I decided to stay with the 140mm of front travel on the X-Fusion 34 fork, acknowledging that the geometry calls for 120mm front with 100 rear. Absolutely love the 67.2 head angle which reflects the trend toward slacker head angles on XC full sus frames. I ordered and received a spare MY 2023 3-piece bell crank assy for the rear sus just to have it, Lexon sent it for a 30 buck S&H fee.
The good: headtube cable routing, sweet geometry, cush air-flex ride helped by CF wheelset and CF bars, gorgeous paint job which I protected with 3M Rhino Skin, and last but not least, low cost-- as I basically threw existing parts onto an $1,075 frame (with decent shock, headset, and axles included). The less than good: rear triangle is a little flexy but tolerable, had to lathe-up improved spacers for for rear sus external linkage arms and replace damaged bearings, no metallic insert for NDS rear axle hole.
Just so I understand, did you take a normal Lexon Spirit and convert it to an E bike or do they make an E-bike frame?
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He converted it using an aftermarket kit. Lexon does not make a Scott Lumen equivalent yet.
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Just so I understand, did you take a normal Lexon Spirit and convert it to an E bike or do they make an E-bike frame?
This Spirit manual bike was converted using a motor kit I had from a prior project and a self built battery, eventually this bike will receive a much lighter and less powerful motor system and lower capacity lighter battery.
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I ordered one too. I typically do the same as Mathesonmd and build a couple a year. I am going to try out the new SRAM T-type drivetrain on this one.
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$2000 drivetrain on $1200 frame! ;)
Been there before though. Built my $550 hardtail frame up with a $1200 drivetrain (at the time X01 1x11).
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... and a self built battery...
I was going to ask about the nice looking battery, until reading it is self built :o
Congrats! Do you have some more details about it?
I would never have dared to rivet a carbon frame.
If you have some more details, I'm interested too.
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I was going to ask about the nice looking battery, until reading it is self built :o
Congrats! Do you have some more details about it?
I would never have dared to rivet a carbon frame.
If you have some more details, I'm interested too.
On my hardtail, the bottle cages came loose after years of use. I neglected to fix them right away and the rattling of heavy bottle/cage caused the holes to oversize. New RivNuts couldn't be installed unless I went with a really big size, like an M8. So I moved up an inch on the down tube, drilled two new holes, and installed the new M5 RivNuts. I was nervous to drill carbon, but it was easy and there was very minimal splinters with a sharp bit and slow/light force.
I was also surprised how thin the downtube actually is. I would estimate it was ~1mm thick?
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...I was also surprised how thin the downtube actually is. I would estimate it was ~1mm thick?
Yes, it's scary how thin some tubes are.
Did you epoxy the RivNuts ?
Or you just did leave them dry?
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Yes, it's scary how thin some tubes are.
Did you epoxy the RivNuts ?
Or you just did leave them dry?
Just dry. I actually didn't even think about epoxy until you mentioned it. Probably would help it from getting loose in the future.
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FYI, Looks like Lexon recently raised the frame price by $38.00. Not too bad an increase, but I wonder why...
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I was going to ask about the nice looking battery, until reading it is self built :o
Congrats! Do you have some more details about it?
I would never have dared to rivet a carbon frame.
If you have some more details, I'm interested too.
To be more precise regarding the battery, I modified the case of a new battery ordered from a well reviewed battery builder on Ali, it is a 460mm Reention Dorado that I was able to spec LG INR MH1 cells for, 48v/17.5Ah, USD338 duty and freight free. After receiving/testing the battery, I voided the warranty by lopping 49mm off of each end, installing 2mm thick CF end caps, and building a custom base. The base is held in place on the downtube with 2 additional epoxied-in aluminum rivnuts. I epoxied them in place like the original "rivnuts" because I did not want to stress the holes in the frame by deforming the rivnuts in place. A motorcycle battery rubber strap was also employed. I'm now at about 2,200km, first set of drivetrain stuff getting worn out, definitely an advanced level conversion due to fixing the torquey 14.3# motor in place on a carbon frame. Currently at 48.75#, when I install the lighter motor and a smaller (same physical size, but more air by volume) battery I should come in around 42# total. Scott Lumen territory.
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I ordered one too. I typically do the same as Mathesonmd and build a couple a year. I am going to try out the new SRAM T-type drivetrain on this one.
How do you mount the T-type derailleur, is it UDH hanger on the frame?
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I took the plunge on the Spirit after watching a couple viddies from this talented Brazilian XC racer, I figured if he ain't breaking it, I definitely won't either. Here is one of his latest. If your not that into the frame, prior video images of his foxy GF in riding clothes are so worth it, LOL.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cdeGO9gAvO4
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I'm so curious to see people post and review this frame here, but it just doesn't seem to materialize.
I'm less worried about breaking the frame and more worried about a loose rear suspension that creaks, clicks, pops, and wiggles after some amount of time. Heck, I'm worried about that on the real Spark, the Chinese clone, even more so.
For what it's worth, I now have 842 miles on my 2023 Spark Team. Frame and suspension have been flawless with zero trouble/maintenance needed. Headset cable routing has also been fine. Only consistent issue I'm having is with the Chinese clone Syncros 1-piece stem/handlebar setup; it clicks unless you grease between the stem/steerer tube regularly.
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...more worried about a loose rear suspension that creaks, clicks, pops, and wiggles after some amount of time. Heck, I'm worried about that on the real Spark, the Chinese clone, even more so.
Hear that, all valid concerns. Time will tell, and certainly heightened maintenance will be called for. Currently at 2,789km, driven daily 50/50 asphalt and trails/beach. I've had contact with only 2 other FS frames, this one struck me as the flexier one of the group likely due to being the only easy to buy carbon frame, fortunately this has not gotten worse. Cleaned and repacked the pivots once as a slight creak developed after a couple of days of ripping on intertidal beach.
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I've held off on purchasing one of these frame. After they raised the price above $1K USD, (plus shipping) I lost interest. It is the time of year that I ride, and until fall/winter, I don't have any plans to assemble another bike. I've been enjoying the hardtails I built in the spring. My 19 lb Spcycle carbon hardtail is so light and handles about 90% of the trails I normally ride on. I just don't see the need right now for a Spirit frame. Perhaps they will go on sale in the fall...
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I've held off on purchasing one of these frame. After they raised the price above $1K USD, (plus shipping) I lost interest.
I ordered mine through a high volume reseller in Thailand, $1075 this price included a decent Rockshox, paint upgrade, headset, derailleur hanger, and axle. Free shipping and duty free. Shock and headset are about a $300 value. If I get into any issues with this frame I'll report back here. I consider mine under accelerated aging testing because it is currently kitted out with a 1Kw mid drive assist motor. With the drive, spares, water and body weight I load it about 10Kg beyond suggested limit. However, I do drive it like an older guy whose bones would take a long time to heal.
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Nice photo h-habilis. I didn't realize how square the tubes are on the Spirit.
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I ordered mine through a high volume reseller in Thailand, $1075 this price included a decent Rockshox, paint upgrade, headset, derailleur hanger, and axle. Free shipping and duty free. Shock and headset are about a $300 value. If I get into any issues with this frame I'll report back here. I consider mine under accelerated aging testing because it is currently kitted out with a 1Kw mid drive assist motor. With the drive, spares, water and body weight I load it about 10Kg beyond suggested limit. However, I do drive it like an older guy whose bones would take a long time to heal.
How is the bike holding up? Any updates after 3+ months of riding? 11-11 sale isn't to far away and this frame is on my list to look at again if the price drops. I have been investigating E-MTB bike frames. Most that take 1KW Bafang motors weigh a lot more then your set-up. (Of course your battery is external and takes up a lot of room in the triangle area.)
Another question, have you had any hits on the the motor due to it lower BB position?
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How is the bike holding up? Any updates after 3+ months of riding?...
I had been thinking that I need to post an update pretty soon on here as last week I began working through the local distributor about a newly discovered crack in the seat tube, about 5cm below where the top tube joins. Two days ago I was informed the manufacturer would send me a new main triangle for shipping cost and peacock paint upgrade cost, around USD50 total. Best I can figure it was caused by insufficient strength of the wall of the seat tube. Dropper post was deeply inserted so not related to being near minimum. Dropper post seemed to fit OK diameter wise too. I took them up on their offer but I'll relegating the bike to my wife to use (after replacing main triangle) as she is much lighter and gentler on stuff than me, and she likes the bike as did I. In summary, I rode the bike every morning, 32-36km, 50/50 trail and asphalt for over 9 months, so over 7,500km. I had planned to convert it with the way lighter Photon drive but then got spooked off of that drive as longer term expert reviews began to appear. I can tell you more about the experience after my new triangle arrives. Ground clearance was right at 21.5cm unsagged, and clearance was never a problem for me but may be for others who ride more extreme. A week or two before I noticed the frame crack, I had began a new build for my son, it is reviewed under metal frames on this forum. I was hoping manufacturer would have offered the choice of a partial refund and I would have built another one of the alloy ones, it is less than half the price.
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Best I can figure it was caused by insufficient strength of the wall of the seat tube
Or the DIY mods.. You definitely won that one with a $50 replacement.
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Or the DIY mods.. You definitely..
Oh yeah I'm happy with the outcome, considering alternative endings. The install of the drive and battery did not seem to cause any concerns to the areas affected by their install. The area of the cracking was exactly where the bottom of the dropper would apply force against the inside of the seat tube, as by the fore and aft rocking forces from pedaling. Portions of the frame where built with multi directional weave carbon, however the seat tube appears to be UD.
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On the Scott Spark side of things, there's been a handful (fairly common actually) of failures on 2022 models with the upper shock pivot bolt coming loose while riding and totalling the frame. Scott issued a service bulletin, has been generous with warranty, and redesigned the bolt to stainless steel and higher install torque. 2023s are unaffected (supposedly).
But it still makes me nervous. It's not easy to check frequently as you have to completely air down the rear shock and compress the suspension to get the bolt within view of the frame port.
So all manufacturers have their issues I suppose. Regardless of big OEM or Chinese clone.
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...So all manufacturers have their issues I suppose. Regardless of big OEM or Chinese clone.
Ouch! Yeah, hard to foresee the many potential issues with a radically new design. As I was building the Spirit 9 months ago, I saw a potential disaster leading to a frame fracture caused by the dropper cable getting in a pinch point with the belcrank arm on top of the shock. I epoxied in a 3cm piece of carbon fishing rod to route the cable through. On the bright side I was able to check the torque of the shock eyebolt easily with air set to run pressure.
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I epoxied in a 3cm piece of carbon fishing rod to route the cable through.
That is a great idea! That or a piece of old v-brake noodle will address a similar routing issue on my Airwolf (that has been bugging me but not caused a problem yet)
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I'd like to thank you all for the valuable information. Just ordered a spirit frameset (rockshox shock included). As mentioned here, my idea is a DYI ebike, using the frame space for max range, using a local battery manufacturer in Brazil that make battery packs designed to fit the frame (https://www.ipedal.com.br/baterias-sob-medida ). I have a Bafang BBSHD, but I'll probably get a CYC Photon for this build (a bit less power, maybe more gentle on the frame). https://www.cycmotor.com/product-page/photon-750w-mid-drive-conversion-kit
There's a very comprehensive critic video review by a russian youtuber that is also very informative of things to pay attention (link broken, just search lexon spirit carbon frame 2022).
I've had other frames with rear suspension link problems, which I've solved using a single axle through both left and right link bearings. Adapted suspension link is holding up well. My guess is bearings don't like torsional loads. Pictures can be found on this page (it's a brazilian bike forum) https://www.pedal.com.br/forum/topic81719_post1668631.html#1668631
I can't tell yet if the Spirit wishbone link behind the seatpost tube would accommodate a similar solution, because of possible interference with the frame depending on the travel.
It will be my first carbon frame, and I like to fix things, so I'll just enjoy the journey and try to implement some improvements as I put the bike together before riding, hoping to extend its life.