Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29+ & 27+ => Topic started by: SportingGoods on August 30, 2016, 09:25:01 AM
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I really happy to kick off this CS-496 building topic :D
This is the frame I won on the Chinertown lottery. As you know, my current bike is already 27.5+, so I will be transferring as much as possible. But before I get into any detail, let me share some pictures of the frame, that I received today (after a month out on vacation)
(https://s13.postimg.org/bzsyc45o7/IMG_2659.jpg)
See that it was well packaged
(https://s22.postimg.org/mqzdc6h81/IMG_2658.jpg)
And here is some details. I will update:
- EDIT: I had missed the most obvious, the frame :). I was a bit surprised by the weight of the frame, 1400g for a 17". 100g over what I thought. Apart from that the finishing looks good. I really like the ability to play with the length of the chainstay. And I did not know it offers internal routing for a dropper post.
- drivetrain. Going for Eagle as the CS-496 is not compatible with my current drivetrain (2x9).
- BB. Frame is BB92, my first press-fit :o :-[ ???
- Headset. Got a Neco from Peter.
- Rear axle. I bought a through axle from Peter. My current frame is 135mm QR.
- Hubs. Frame is Boost. I bought Novatec Boost hubs from CarbonSpeed. Front is 149g. Rear is 264g with XD freewheel.
(https://s12.postimg.org/r7gp83oa5/IMG_2654.jpg)
I keep all the rest of my bike:
- Stem. 70 mm Ritchey WCS
- Bar. Carbon Funn, 725mm
- Brakes. SRAM Guide RSC
- Rims. Carbon 35 mm internal, 40 mm external from CarbonSpeed
- Selle Italia SLR XC
- Reverb dropperpost. I will upgrade it to a Reverb Stealth later (resell my regular Reverb and buy a stealth - the frame has internal routing)
- Crank. XT triple. I really want to keep it, use the middle ring. Hope it will work!
- Fork. I'll upgrade the fork to a Boost one later (Christmas)
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Nice! Can you post close up pics of the rear dropouts and the rear brake mount?
Also, is the rear derailer hole sized to run a full length housing, or do you just put a piece on the jump from the down tube to the chainstay?
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Here we go
Here is the outside of the system. 2 holes, one is blocked by the piece of metal.
(https://s9.postimg.org/9zdupuxvj/IMG_2664.jpg)
Inside of the system. The RD hanger is secured through the axle, and moves with the position.
(https://s22.postimg.org/7brsn9c9t/IMG_2665.jpg)
Now the brake mount. I was a bit surprised to see this design. Pro: if you ever damage the thread you just have to replace the adapter. Con: heavier. On this picture you also see the disc side of the system to modify the chainstay. Here it is as simple as 2 holes. No piece of metal.
(https://s22.postimg.org/kg8ugeydt/IMG_2666.jpg)
And for those who are curious about a BB92, here is how it looks like. About 90mm wide. No aluminum shell.
(https://s13.postimg.org/om4so5bdj/IMG_2668.jpg)
For the RD housing, it looks like a full-housing (which I prefer). Obviously, the cable/housing get out at the bottom of the downtube, run in the air and then goes back in the chainstay. I'm not a big fan of that solution, it would have been a lot better to run all the way inside, but the odd design of the right chainstay prevents that solution.
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SportingGoods....how's the frame quality compared to Flyxii?
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Honestly I see no difference in quality! I'm really happy with my FR-202. It came in 3K Glossy, which has a very clean look compared to the UD Matt of the CS-496. But that's the nature of the finishing.
I really can't say that one is obviously better quality then the other, but again, they are both very good quality.
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Thanks for the pics! I'm a bit surprised to see that there is not a metal insert for the left side of the axle. Is that common on thru axle designs? (My Chiner is old school QRs :) )
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I'm not a TA expert, I've always had QR. But, from a mechanical stand point, it looks good to me. The metal piece on the drive side is actually the nut of the axle (you can see it on my picture). There is no difference between this piece pressing against the frame and the non-drive side of the axle pressing against the frame.
Adding a piece of metal, "encapsulated" within the carbon would most likely weaken the frame.
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My concern would be the axle rubbing/fretting the frame. Is there a washer between the end of the axle and the frame, or something else to be sure that it doesn't rub?
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I wouldn't think there would be much issue with the way the dropouts are done on the CS-496. Since there is metal on either side, and it looks like the holes in the frame are slightly larger than the drop outs.
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Now that the road bike is done, I'm really kicking off the MTB build!
First step, I need a rear wheel :D CS-496 is a Boost frame. My wheels are not. I have dismounted my rear wheel (35mm ID carbon from Peter, FYI the rim is 459g) and I'm ready to put it back together with the Boost/xD driver hub (from Peter as well).
Good news: I made my calculations and found that I can keep the spokes. The difference is a fraction of a mm (because the hubs are the same reference, except one is Boost). Nipples are in good shape even though they are Aluminum. I'll reuse those as well.
(https://s18.postimg.org/p7ympc7d5/IMG_2712.jpg)
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Looking forward to seeing this build progress forward.
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Looking forward to seeing this build progress forward.
+1 and with a lot of pictures ;D
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Rear wheel is laced! Time to get to the truing stand ;D I put the fork and bar to stabilize my "stand" :)
(https://s17.postimg.org/bkb0pvidb/IMG_2723.jpg)
And here comes the first problem. When I put on the axle, it is too long. I can't tighten the hub, there is 2 mm once screwed to the max. That's the axle I bought from Peter, together with the gift frame. Either the axle is too long, or there is a missing metal piece on the frame. :o
Disc side
(https://s10.postimg.org/xk0l66j55/IMG_2720.jpg)
Drive side
(https://s9.postimg.org/nwb9c30ov/IMG_2721.jpg)
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Almost looks like there should be a metal dropout on that side. Even though I know this has been discussed before.
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Almost looks like there should be a metal dropout on that side. Even though I know this has been discussed before.
Get some washers to fill the gap? Seems a bit ghetto but not completely out of the range of feasible.
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I wonder if Peter sent you a Boost 148 axle. Looks like you've got about an extra 3mm per side (142+3+3=148).
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That's my next plan, washers. But I've emailed Peter to ask him what he thinks, if there is anything missing. Washers will work but I'd like to understand where the problem comes from! And people who will buy this frame will want to know upfront what to expect.
I can still true my wheel, I don't even need the axle for that, the frame upside down holds the hub in place.
@Carbon_Dude I had missed your message! Yes it is a Boost axel ;D, the frame and hub are Boost. I measured the Hub, 148 mm.
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Okay, then is it a 157x12mm fatbike axle? I bet that's it.
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Get some washers to fill the gap?
Will not this cause either a chainline issue or the disc being hardly aligned with the caliper?
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No it would not, because the washers would be on the outside of the frame.
I'll measure the total length of the axle tonight, I suspect that CD is right, it is most likely an axle for 157 hub. There is a lot more then 2 mm. The 2 mm is the minimum to start clamping the hub but there is a lot more over what it should be.
EDIT: my axle is 185 mm from the flat of the nut (in contact with the frame) to the end of the threaded section of the axle
And Peter got back to me that it's Autumn holidays for the next 3 days. So he'll check a little later what's going on.
Checking axles from other vendors it looks like Boost axles are shorter then mine (at least 3 mm shorter)
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Wheel is true and tensioned. I'm very happy with the results. It was a lot easier and faster then the first set of wheels that I've built! Experience comes fast :)
Read Derailleur is in place as well as cable hose. Not difficult to get it through the frame. Now I need to buy some tape to mount my Tubeless tires. I was almost done when... I reached the end of the roll >:( >:(
(https://s17.postimg.org/qh4nqgtxb/IMG_2739.jpg)
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Nice!
Now I need to buy some tape to mount my Tubeless tires. I was almost done when... I reached the end of the roll >:( >:(
You should try the rims without holes next time.
Playing with a magnet to get the nipple out is a very small part of the building job.
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I don't plan buying rims anytime soon! So I'll wait for my tape to arrive :)
I have also ordered something I had missed: Shelter protection tape. I would not ride my carbon bike even once w/o it. I've had severe rock hit in the downtube of my FR-202 and it is in perfect condition. It is not a regular tape, it really protects. It's not easy to find. Found it cheap here:
http://26bikes.com/shop/accessories/frame-protectors/prod/shelter
I'm still waiting for a stunning deal on Eagle Boost cranks... Once the bike is completed I'll buy whatever the cheapest is. But I'd love to get it below 300€ (which is already too expensive, but I can't picture myself buying GX cranks with such a perfect bike).
Oh, one point I forgot to mention in my previous post: before installing the RD I made sure to align the hanger. I bought a tool some time ago and don't regret it, it is critical for a good shifting to get this hanger perfectly aligned.
EDIT: Now I know there is something missing around the axle and I know it is INSIDE the frame. See that the wheel can't turn as the disc bolts hit the brake mount. This shows there should be something, a piece of metal, in between the disc side of the hub and the frame... Not good. I stop messing with this wheel till I hear from Peter what is missing. I had failed to move the caliper mount, now that it is done the bolts are fine, but the axle still too long.
(https://s13.postimg.org/w0kadle3r/IMG_2746.jpg)
And now another thing I don't really like. The recess for the top bearing of the headset is neither deep enough nor level. I bought the headset from Peter to make sure it fits! Bearing is about 2 mm larger then the recess (and I use no shim). And you can see that the rear of the recess is not as deep as the front. This will catch mud >:(
(https://s22.postimg.org/tq4k53kip/IMG_2741.jpg)
A couple more picture. The wheel with the GIANT cassette
(https://s9.postimg.org/k5vqhvldb/IMG_2743.jpg)
The current status of my bike!
(https://s11.postimg.org/calibbnib/IMG_2747.jpg)
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Personally, I wouldn't be happy about the way the top side of the headset is protruding from the frame. If it's not level, will the bars even turn smoothly? Can you get a shorter bearing so at least the gap isn't so bad?
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I have worked some more on the bike this morning. First, it was a false assumption that the axle washer needs to be inside the frame. I had failed to move the brake caliper mount (remember, you can change the chainstay length). So, the axle is still too long but we are back to the original case: need washer outside the frame or a shorter axle.
Now, the headset. A couple more pictures. Yes I could use smaller bearing, but I'm not sure it exists! Then, it is also the split ring that comes on top/inside that is very tall. I might switch it with my road bike and see if it does not cause problem. But still it is tilted, and you can see that the tilt comes from the finish of the frame.
(https://s22.postimg.org/tskpn8xs1/IMG_2751.jpg)
(https://s12.postimg.org/wtsfl9x2l/IMG_2750.jpg)
Now, next problem ;D. I have spent 2 hours to get the brake line routed inside the frame. Not successful for now! There is a kink in the BB that the line needs to take, and it doesn't! I managed to get a derailleur cable through but I have to pull so strongly on it that the brake line is disconnected from the cable. My next option is to drill a hole in the brake line to get the cable securely attached. I tried to remove everything (seatpost, fork) to see/do something but it's completely inaccessible. I get enough for now. I need a brake break :)
I'm back. I was right about the split ring. See how the one I got with the CS-496 is tall compared to the one on my road bike (a Neco too). What matters is the top part of the ring (the lower part goes inside, so it doesn't matter).
(https://s22.postimg.org/cessi4jkh/IMG_2752.jpg)
Now the tall one is on my road bike. I removed the shim but it's still too high. But I'll call that good till I find another split ring similar to the thin one! I haven't put back the fork on the MTB, I need to work out the rear brake line first... It should still look a bit better!
(https://s15.postimg.org/5fcap9117/IMG_2754.jpg)
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I thought I had faced rough challenges with my road bike. I had not. Now that I have faced that rear brake line routing problem I can face the world ;D ;D ;D
So... I have reached my limit. I have tried E.V.E.R.Y.T.H.I.N.G. The hose would not go through. Extreme problem calls extreme solution. I have drilled the inner routing and got my hose out! Pushing from the rear, the line would go through and get out in the front tube, but NOT in the routing sleeve, so it was accessible for a "personal re-routing".
(https://s9.postimg.org/qbxlwa7tb/IMG_2762.jpg)
With some silicon to seal it from dust and water.
(https://s21.postimg.org/oehr3xmcn/IMG_2765.jpg)
And now drying using my shoe dryer (because I'm going mad at waiting for this brake to be fixed, so it'd better be fixed quick!!) 8)
(https://s9.postimg.org/h6srw8ri7/IMG_2766.jpg)
See this nice cable routing ;D That's where you don't want to forget to go through that piece of plastic. My wife would have to call the hospital to calm me down if that was to happen :o >:( :-X :'( ::) ;)
(https://s14.postimg.org/pym8ngrsh/IMG_2767.jpg)
I'm off now... till it's dry!
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Now that the rear brake line is fixed, assembly moves fast.
The low profile split ring on the top headset bearing did wonders. I really need to find another one for my road bike. See how the gap is closed now. You can still see a little the tilt, but it's OK.
(https://s21.postimg.org/aiw2srro7/IMG_2770.jpg)
I can now list what is to be done:
- bleed rear brake (really full of air now)
- adjust rear derailleur
- Mount tires (still waiting for the tape for rear wheel)
- Apply Shelter protection tape (to come with tubeless tape order)
- buy BB and cranks :-[
So, it's getting really close to completion now.
One more thing: Dropper post. I have 3 options, undecided yet.
1) Keep my regular Reverb and route the cable externally with jagwire stick-on (similar to my previous bike). Cost 0€.
2) Buy a new long hose and route it "semi-internally". Keep it outside on the seat tube and get internal in the down tube. Cost 18€. Routing is split anyway, "up in the air" between seat tube and down tube, like the RD cable.
3) Sell my Reverb and buy a Reverb Stealth. Cost probably about 100-150€.
(https://s14.postimg.org/vbnn6pqap/IMG_2773.jpg)
(https://s14.postimg.org/56k54hu5d/IMG_2772.jpg)
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Looks much better now that you have fixed the headset and cable routing.
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Good news, I've received feedback from Peter (from Vegas :) ), there is nothing missing on my frame (he showed me pictures of what it should be, it's just like my frame). This makes things simple: my axle is too long.
I'd like to get back to the rear brake internal routing. You know that the frame comes with some white plastic tube inside the routing sleeves. My take is that the plastic is there when they install the sleeves in the frame. The reason I think so is that it would have been impossible to install this tube in my rear brake line otherwise. Removing this tube was difficult, I could feel strong resistance. This tells me there was a kink in the sleeve. A derailleur cable could go through but a hose would have never made it through.
Anyway, that problem is solved.
My problem could easily be an isolated problem. It doesn't mean that people will face the same issue, I was probably unlucky there was a kink in the sleeve.
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Getting close!!
I've received my delivery from Poland (26Bikes.com). So I have taped my rear wheel and mounted the tire, Nobby Nic 2.8. I've adjusted the RD too.
Also, I've processed with some measurements. Here is a summary:
- Head Angle is 68.5° with my "old" 110 mm fork. Now I plan on 130-140 mm (Pike).
- BB height: about 30.6mm. There is indeed room to increase the fork travel a bit!
- Disc side chainstay clearance: 11 mm. That's plenty with a real 2.8 tire.
- Drive side chainstay clearance: 15 mm. That's because of the high position of the drive side chainstay.
- Seat tube clearance: an amazing 3 cm. They could have shortened the chainstay even more (and I use the short setting at 425 mm).
Pictures now!
Disc side clearance
(http://s18.postimg.org/3slalvau1/IMG_2779.jpg)
Drive side clearance
(http://s17.postimg.org/tmqvcf4y7/IMG_2780.jpg)
Seat tube clearance
(http://s22.postimg.org/3mz464sip/IMG_2782.jpg)
BB height
(http://s12.postimg.org/4j065nipp/IMG_2785.jpg)
Bike! See the quality of the details with the tire aligned with the valve 8)
(http://s17.postimg.org/er6mas9v3/IMG_2788.jpg)
(http://s13.postimg.org/4973wdb1z/IMG_2791.jpg)
What is missing:
- rear brake bleed
- apply protection tape (received)
- buy BB/crankset. I'm decided with Eagle, GXP, Boost. Yes, it's very expensive but I really can't see a GX here. I get 10% in one of my usual shop, on my anniversary, early October.
- Fix the dropper post hose with stick-on jagwire. I've opted for the cheapest option for now.
- Waiting for feedback from Peter on the rear axle (I've added 5 mm of washers for now, but can't be a permanent solution!).
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Looks very interesting. I like your build.
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me too ;D
Everything's done now (brake bleed, dropper post hose stuck to the frame, cockpit all setup)! Just waiting on my 10% anniversary discount, next week, to order my Eagle cranks.
Also, I was about to built a DIY pressfit tool when I found one for 25€. For this price, I see no reason to built it myself.
http://www.probikeshop.fr/super-b-outil-d-installation-pour-roulements/79162.html
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...my 10% anniversary discount...
Is it probikeshop that does that?
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No, it's part of Alltricks' Premium account
As I get a week before I can complete my bike, I thought I should post a picture. Here is a family picture ;)
(https://s16.postimg.org/xqaihbzt1/IMG_2795.jpg)
You can (almost) see the Shelter tape. It's very conformal, so it is difficult to see.
I just wanted to add that I really like the angle in the seat tube. It enables to significantly move the saddle to the front when pushing on the dropper post. This should enable a better handling in technical sections. I'll confirm as soon as I can ride the bike!
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Hi SC. Thanks for the excellent detail and write up. A few things that I would like more detail on after you spoke with Peter. I was at IB but ran out of time. Needs to be more than 3 days.
I believe there should be a metal insert on the disc side of the frame to protect the carbon?? The relief in the frame suggests this as well. I believe also some of the pics online show a reversible metal piece on the disc side as well?
1. How about the rear axle issue?
2. How about the headset height and lack of level issue?
3. The brake line feed issue?
What is the current A2C with the 110 fork that yields the 68.5 HA.
Thank you sir.
Iammemares
Has Peter acknowledged these issues and have they been corrected.
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Hi iammemares, those are good questions, let me try to answer.
I believe there should be a metal insert on the disc side of the frame to protect the carbon?? The relief in the frame suggests this as well. I believe also some of the pics online show a reversible metal piece on the disc side as well?
I'm 100% positive that there is nothing missing. Peter has provided me with detailed picture of each side of the rear end of the frame. This is the way it it supposed to be. And I'd be curious to see the pictures you mentioned with a reversible piece of metal. I've searched all the pictures I could find but never found anything like you mention.
1. How about the rear axle issue?
I'm still waiting on Peter to tell me how he wants to fix this. Again, I'm not happy with 5mm of washers. And this axle did not come for free.
2. How about the headset height and lack of level issue?
3. The brake line feed issue?
This is a good and difficult question. Let me explain. This kind of problems happen. But they should never pass quality control. The frame should have been downgraded as B stock. Maybe it was and I was not told about it. I did not complain to Peter about it, neither mention it, because I got the frame for free. Had I paid the frame, I would have asked for compensation. There is nothing you can do but fix it the way I did or return it.
What is the current A2C with the 110 fork that yields the 68.5 HA.
I'm not convinced in my ability to measure this accurately. This is a stock Reba 29", solo air, 100 mm, 2012-2013 model. Bumped to 110 mm. Found this on internet: 100mm=>473mm A2C. 120mm=>493mm A2C. So the best answer should be 483 mm A2C.
Has Peter acknowledged these issues and have they been corrected.
Again, I've only mentioned the axle problem and it is not solved for now.
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What is the current A2C with the 110 fork that yields the 68.5 HA.
I'm not convinced in my ability to measure this accurately. This is a stock Reba 29", solo air, 100 mm, 2012-2013 model. Bumped to 110 mm. Found this on internet: 100mm=>473mm A2C. 120mm=>493mm A2C. So the best answer should be 483 mm A2C.
Double check your source, 473mm for a 100mm fork sounds like a 26er fork. Everything I saw on the REBA 29er fork puts it around 506mm. MTBR reference (http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/forks-complete-axle-crown-lengths-library-470024-2.html#post9875277)
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Good you are here cmh! That's exactly what I did, use data for 26" fork.
So my fork should be about 516 mm A2C.
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COMPLETED!
Well, there is always something to do. Peter just got back to me that it's still national holiday in China, he'll get back to me later about the axle. I'll change the fork for a Pike at Christmas and convert the front wheel to Boost hub at that time.
Super nice bike
(https://s22.postimg.org/eqz9oybi9/IMG_2804.jpg)
Super nice (and expensive) drivetrain
(https://s22.postimg.org/4lf2cf1cx/IMG_2803.jpg)
Some more
(https://s13.postimg.org/c4u55qotz/IMG_2805.jpg)
10.4 kg with pedals. It will be about 200g heavier with the Pike. That's lighter then my previous bike.
(https://s17.postimg.org/ruwc9bl3z/IMG_2811.jpg)
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How the Eagle rides in the Alps?
My brother is quite happy with it on his 036.
He just moved from the 32 ring he got with the kit, to a 36 as it was definitely too short.
That elevated seatpost screams for a Rohloff + Carbon Belt :)
Well a bit heavier. It was my first idea of building an MTB, before landing on this forum and on MTBR.
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I'll let you know as soon as I will have tested it! But I already know that 32 chainring is perfect to me.
My previous bike was a 2x9 drivetrain:
36/11=3.27 ratio
22/34=0.65 ratio
Eagle is:
32/10=3.2
32/50=0.64
That being said, I learned from my road bike that if you run out of gear, you just push harder. So I could probably accommodate a 34 chainring, but absolutely not a 36.
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Looks nice! I wonder how it would look/ride with 29+ wheels & tires. As you know, I like the combination of 29+ on a hardtail and 27+ on a FS bike.
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Looks very good! I could post pic of my build of the same frame next week.
Spec list:
- Rigid full Carbon fork
- 40mm Carbon rims, DT350 hubs
- nobby nic 3.0
- xx1 11spd drivetrain
- sram s-1400 (i think?) cranks w/direct mount oval boost - one-up
- shimano saint brakes with 203mm rotors (i'm adicted to good brakes!)
- reverb dropper, full Carbon saddle
- thomson stem, Carbon bars
- ESI chunky grips
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Hi MVinter,
I'm very excited to see your built! Please share some pictures. I'm particularly interested to know if you faced the same issues I did:
1. rear axle issue? Did you get it from Peter?
2. How about the headset height and lack of level issue?
3. The brake line feed issue?
I did a first quick ride yesterday to setup everything. Eagle 12x is a lot more delicate to set then my previous 2x9. It has to be dialed in very precisely. Apart from that Eagle is just awesome. Crisp shifting, always in the right gear. And I confirm that I keep my 32 ring.
Frame size is good. I've picked an unusual 17" frame for my 5'11" size, based on top tube length. It was the right choice for a trail oriented bike.
Another test this afternoon, longer one!
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Hi MVinter,
I'm very excited to see your built! Please share some pictures. I'm particularly interested to know if you faced the same issues I did:
1. rear axle issue? Did you get it from Peter?
2. How about the headset height and lack of level issue?
3. The brake line feed issue?
I did a first quick ride yesterday to setup everything. Eagle 12x is a lot more delicate to set then my previous 2x9. It has to be dialed in very precisely. Apart from that Eagle is just awesome. Crisp shifting, always in the right gear. And I confirm that I keep my 32 ring.
Frame size is good. I've picked an unusual 17" frame for my 5'11" size, based on top tube length. It was the right choice for a trail oriented bike.
Another test this afternoon, longer one!
Pics will follow monday/tuesday... and in advanced sorry for my Norwegian-English!
1. Some minor problems with the threads and clearances on rear axle. Had to drill bigger hole inside driveside chainstay. Also had to make new threads for bolt holding dropout. Still some misalignment between axle-hole inside dropout and threaded bracket on the outside. You could feel some force is needed to get the rear axle into place. I could try to do something with this but I´m afraid I will make to much free-hole. As it sits now everything is tight and working very well!
2. Absolutely no headset problems. Also fitted Neco headset from Peter, and it just pressed straight into the frame. Spacing is no problem. I´m now running a 50mm thomson stem and a 20mm spacer between headset and stem. Think I will try to swap for a riser bar, but I really love the looks of a flatt bar!
3. The brake line was a pain in the ass! The main problem was between BB and outlet on non-drive side CS. There was some kind of plastic material left inside the CS, but after 2-3 hours of swearing and several different methods I got it thru. Looks clean now! Cable for RD and dropper was a 5min job, no problems!
I have the 21" size and it fits like a dream for my 6´2" or 188cm... Don´t know if the conversion is correct! I have been testing the bike now for some serious freeriding and it is more or less as expected. I think i need to replace the full carbon saddle for freeriding and I should have a dropper with more than 125mm drop. But for normal XC and some flat technical sections the bike is perfect setup. I could be running a lighter crankset but it´s not worth the $$$...
As for drivetrain group. I had an opinion to use the big $ on frame, fork, wheels and maybe brakes, then use what´s left for drivetrain. I still belive this is correct way of setting up a bike, but I have to say I love the crispness from XX1 drivetrain. I have earlier only experience from shimano, but from now on it´s sram for me.
I´m now in the marked for 29er boost wheelset at around 30mm to use for spiked tires and light fast rolling XC tires. Have already bought Ice spiker pro and Thunder burt for this, but really need wheelset!
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Thanks for the feedback, MVinter
So I guess you got an axle that is not Shimano standard thread (1.5 mm). I guess you did not get it form Peter then. There are 3 thread standard :o 1 mm, 1.5 mm and 1.75 mm. Too many.
And it's good to read that my headset problem is an isolated problem. But it looks like the rear brake line is a design problem, even though it was even worse on my frame where even the plastic guide was almost locked into the internal sleeve.
Anyway, I went for a 20k ride yesterday and the bike is fantastic. Eagle is now set precisely and I love it. Single chainring is so much better then 2x (no more mud in the FD, no anticipating on chainring switch). All 12 cogs shift easily, even the big one, just like the other ones. I appreciate the ability to adjust the reach on the shifter (the angle of the big shifter).
Then, geometry: as I mentioned previously, the short seat tube angle enables to clear the saddle when dropping the post. You can really move as much as you want. I went to a VERY steep short descent and felt safe as I could get my butt almost rubbing on the rear wheel w/o my balls knocking in the saddle 8)
Then, The 2.8 Nobby Nic is great in the rear. Definitely better then the WTB TrailBlazer. I have climbed yesterday something I thought was an "impossible climb".
I forgot to talk about BB92. Surprisingly, I really like it. It really feels rock solid. Installing the BB was a piece of cake. To the point that I believe I could have pushed it gently with a mallet inside the frame. Pretty sure it would have been OK, but I already had the dedicated tool! Then, the Eagle cranks are nicely tight on the BB and compress some rubber caps that prevent mud/water from penetrating inside. I really like that design.
EDIT: Here is a picture of my ride yesterday, the one I posted on Strava
(https://s11.postimg.org/mczvi5ddv/IMG_2824.jpg)
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I did get a rear axle from Peter, but i'm currently running a Robert axle project axle to use for the Nordic cab trailer. This work absolutely perfect for kindergarden delivery! http://www.nordiccab.no
And yes, it's a 1,5 thread. My problem with missalignment are the same with both axles... but as I said earlier no problem.
The BB92 I have had on previous bike and absolutely no problem there either. Just used a M20 bolt with nut and big washers to press it in, you dont need any dedicated tool for this.
Regarding tire pressure: when pressure in front wheel is to low it feels like the front end is unstable. Maybe this is the nature of plus bikes, but for now I dont like it under 15-17 psi. I will order 29er wheelset and try the bike with Rocket ron/thunder burt in 2.2" to verify balance... then it's time for spikes in Norway! Already below freezing at night time...
How to I upload pics?
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For tire pressure, I run 14 psi fr/rr on my 27.5+ bike, 12 psi fr/rr on my 29+ bike. Although, I would think rim width, tire model/brand, trail type, and personal preference would influence those numbers. So any tire pressure numbers someone posts would only be a starting point, and you would need to adjust pressure as needed. One thing I do hear often and can personally agree with is 1-2 psi can make a significant difference on plus bikes since you already working in lower pressures and 1-2 psi equates to an 8%-16% difference in pressure.
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Is 12/14 psi even possible ? I mean it's less than atmospheric pressure (~14.5 psi). I run my 29er around 25ish , anything less and it gets the "float" that I just cannot stand.
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...I have climbed yesterday something I thought was an "impossible climb"...
Do you mean impossible to climb with a 29er or anything but a "plus" tire?
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I mean anything but an e-Bike. The kind of climb where you get off the saddle before you even start :)
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OK, I think I have thrown in the towel with the rear axle. After a few email exchange I see this is going nowhere. And the picture of the axle that would fit, sent by Peter, show me that it would not be any better then my current axle with 5 mm of washers. His axle shows a very long body.
So, to sum up, based on my experience + MVinter, this is a great frame except those problems:
- very poor design of the rear brake internal routing (expect hours of pain)
- expect problem with the rear axle (even though MVinter and me have face a different problem)
- Headset cup should be OK, I probably had an isolated problem (I'd call that a B stock frame!)
Just so you understand the axle issue, here is the picture sent by Peter of the axle that should fit
(https://s13.postimg.org/52nzi86if/1012_6.jpg)
And my axle (still from Peter but not fitting this frame). You see the head is shorter, that's probably why I need washers, they have not trimmed the length...
(https://s21.postimg.org/sg8hq2el3/IMG_2775.jpg)
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I'm going to quote myself, from a different post (the one on 27.5+ wheels compatibility with 29er frames) :)
You might remember that when I moved from 29er to 27.5+ wheels I posted a comparison on a test loop with various wheel combination. I've done that same loop over lunch today.
So, that was with my FR-202 frame, 2x9 drivetrain:
Full 29 on 8/31: 38"57'
29 rear, 27.5+ front on 9/3: 36"18'
Full 27.5+ on 9/7: 34"33'
With CS-496, Eagle: 31'44".
This is available on Strava if you are curious. There is multiple things behind this achievement:
- I pushed hard today (my last ride before 10 days, going to Greece with the family!)
- I trained efficiently on my road bike in the last weeks
- The bike is pretty good!
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Given those factors, would you say each one contributed to reducing your time equally? I keep looking at the Eagle drivetrain and would like to put it on one of my bikes but have a few other recent bicycle issues I need to take care of first.
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That's a fair assumption.
I'm pretty sure I'd have been slower with the same bike equipped with my older 2x9 drivetrain. This Eagle is really nice, you are always in the right gear ratio because you don't have to think. It's either up or down. In a very technical section, going up, I realized that I just had to focus on my line, not on making sure I would be in the right gear.
The bike geometry made me feel very safe on the DH sections. I've passed at a significant speed a group that was getting off the bike to clear some large rocks. I could still feel that the fork would be better with a couple more cm.
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You should have tried one lap with one of the previous bike.
To check if you are not just in better shape :)
That looks intriguing anyway. My business partner said last week he will build one.
But now... why all these XC riders keep riding their skinny 29ers ?
Bonnes Vacances!
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Sweet looking ride and good weight as well. What size are the nobby nic's are they the 2.8 or 3.0 width? They look like they have a lot of volume!
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Those are 2.8 Nobby Nic. I can't fit 3.0 in my current fork (will change at Xmas). Not sure I'll move to 3" tires anyway. I like my tires as they are.
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Thanks for all the good info on your build of the CS-496 SportingGoods! I'm currently looking at various options for another 29+ frame. I can ask Peter to double check the headset and axle, but the brake line routing makes me hesitate a bit, possibly Peter can also check that for me also, or maybe they have already fixed the issue during manufacturing.
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Hello
I have been following this forum for a while, and I am ready to order my own 496, so I can share and swap wheels back and forth with my full suspension 29/27.5+ depending on the kind of riding.
Now, i am confused, the Peter everybody says is so good, is he at carbonspeedbikes or at xmcarbonspeed? Or both?
And the other question is about the bottom bracket, many say that they had to go with the press fit, but I see carbonspeedbikes and somebody in aliexpress offer the option for different ones (but not xmcarbonspeed) . I would try to go with the threaded BSA 73
Thanks,
Ale
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Hello
I have been following this forum for a while, and I am ready to order my own 496, so I can share and swap wheels back and forth with my full suspension 29/27.5+ depending on the kind of riding.
Now, i am confused, the Peter everybody says is so good, is he at carbonspeedbikes or at xmcarbonspeed? Or both?
And the other question is about the bottom bracket, many say that they had to go with the press fit, but I see carbonspeedbikes and somebody in aliexpress offer the option for different ones (but not xmcarbonspeed) . I would try to go with the threaded BSA 73
Thanks,
Ale
Peter is the same for both websites. Carbonspeedbikes.com (http://Carbonspeedbikes.com) is the new website where you can order directly. xmcarbonspeed.com (http://xmcarbonspeed.com) doesn't have that capability.
Looks like the BB option is the BB92 press fit option.
http://www.carbonspeedbikes.com/shop/mountain/cs-496-27-529-plus-frameset/ (http://www.carbonspeedbikes.com/shop/mountain/cs-496-27-529-plus-frameset/)
http://xmcarbonspeed.com/Productinfo.asp?f=1460 (http://xmcarbonspeed.com/Productinfo.asp?f=1460)
Peter is on Holiday until February 10, but will still probably reply to emails. Just nothing will ship until after the Chinese New Year.
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Thank you!
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The quality of the bottom bracket of the 496 frame is very good. I did not have the option to select anything else but BB92, but now that I've seen how nice it is I would select it over a BSA BB. It is a BB with no aluminum shell and I believe that it is a better design. I've had the aluminum shell move on my previous frame.
CS-496 BB92 really feels solid. It's a great frame overall. The only other frame I would consider today is a full sus.
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A quick update here. I want to mention that Peter has replaced (free of charge) the rear axle that was too long. He has slipped it in an order I had placed recently (Spokes for my road bike carbon wheels), so that even the shipping was kind of free. The new axle fits nicely, with no shim, and is 24g lighter then the previous axle+shims.
This is a good example of high quality of service from CarbonSpeed!
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How did you mount the bottom bracket, with grease, loctite or nothing?
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Nothing a very thin layer of Cu grease (I almost forgot about it, I always add Cu grease to non rotating assemblies), but I've used a proper pressfit tool to get a good alignment.
No creaking so far. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I like the design of the SRAM product: the cranks provide a nice compression over the BB. It feels like the cranks keep the BB secure. Again, I would select this BB92 over a BSA now I see how nice it is.
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Nothing a very thin layer of Cu grease (I almost forgot about it, I always add Cu grease to non rotating assemblies), but I've used a proper pressfit tool to get a good alignment.
No creaking so far. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I like the design of the SRAM product: the cranks provide a nice compression over the BB. It feels like the cranks keep the BB secure. Again, I would select this BB92 over a BSA now I see how nice it is.
Never had any experience with pressfit BB only BSA
I will mount with a very thin layer of grease too, thanks :)
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Looks nice! I wonder how it would look/ride with 29+ wheels & tires. As you know, I like the combination of 29+ on a hardtail and 27+ on a FS bike.
Do you own both 29+ HT and 27+ FS? I ask because I'm a single bike person (HT), and find it very difficult to chose between 27+ and 29+.
Currently riding a 2016 Trek Stache 5 29+, offset chain stay, HT, rigid carbon fork, 10 spd, full XTR group, Thompson seat post, carbon handlebar, TL, etc. I need a suspension fork and 11 spd. I am pretty firm about most items. Strong lean toward 27+, but I am 6-3 and there appears a strong consensus that the taller the rider the more suitable is 29+.
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Yes, I currently have a Stache 9 (which I have for sale), a Stache 9.8, and a Specialized Stumpjumper Carbon 6Fattie 27+.
I would recommend a Rockshox Pike for a suspension fork, that's what is on the Stache 9.8, it's probably the best forks I've ridden. As for your 11-spd, I'm a big fan for SRAM 1x but Shimano is good too.
I agree with you on taller people preferring 29+, that's been my general experience. I don't think Trek sells as many small or med sized Stache bikes as they do large and XL.
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I appreciate the congenial and collegiate atmosphere here.
So far I owned, in ascending time line:
Alloy FS 26 x 2.2"
Carbon FS 26 x 2.2"
Alloy HT/front susp 29 x 2.2
Alloy rigid 26 x 4.0
Alloy rigid/carbon fork 29 x 3.0
Maxxis and likely other tire makers plan to release, if you can believe it, another tire size format called "Wide Trail," between standard width and Plus, e.g. 2.4 to 2.8 inches. I suspect my favorite bike is a carbon HT/front suspension, 29 x about 2.7.
Suppose in the not too distant future exist handsome tire/carbon wheel sets for 29 x 2.7. 27 x 3.00 has radius about +5mm vs. 29 x 2.2, so I presume 29 x 2.7 and 27 x 3.0 have almost identical radius. If correct, then installing the 496 rear axle at the 27 x 3.00 height provides proper BB height above the ground for 29 x 2.7. Further, a 27 x 3.00 fork provides almost perfect ride height for 29 x 2.7.
Comments appreciated.
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One more feedback on my CS-496 MTB.
I just did a XC Marathon last Saturday with the CS-496 mounted with 27.5x2.8. The bike was fantastic. Really solid frame, perfect geometry for the task, nice design of the chainstay (never catch any mud into the drivetrain). I even crashed once (not too badly) and the frame is still just as new, not even scratched (and I want to thank Evoc for their nice Protector backpacks!).
That being said, my initial plan before I win this frame (thanks again Peter and Chinertown!!) was to buy a full sus 27.5+. I still believe this is what I need. Despite 27.5x2.8 tire there were sections where I was obviously slower then a full-sus. It won't be in the next 12 month but my next frame will be a full-sus.
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We've built a 496 with a friend a couple of months ago.
I was a bit lazy to start a post about it, and time has passed :-\
He rides full rigid, with 29x3.0 because he's tall and strong, liked the idea and he's very happy.
This is to ride mostly XC around here in Belgium.
As usual, dealing with Peter for the frame/fork was smooth and easy.
There was no problem during the build either.
@sportinggoods, the rear brake hose was a bit of a fiddle to get out from at the head tube, but there was nothing clogging the rear to the bottom bracket.
Here are some pictures of the build:
(http://i.imgur.com/PKIUFPT.jpg)
The connoisseurs will recognize the 42mm rims cmh won at the lottery here =)
They arrived in Europe by a rather improbable route.
The lacing was easy and the offset I was so afraid of, wasn't an issue at all obviously.
(http://i.imgur.com/PswqWhC.jpg)
The shifter hose enters the frame on the left, and crosses there.
Not pretty, but not a problem either.
(http://i.imgur.com/2pv2IWP.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/aQilQFC.jpg)
Here is a picture of the finished bike:
(http://i.imgur.com/51m9K95.jpg)
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I like the look of a full rigid 29+, but I don't want to ride it :)
For the rear derailleur cable, indeed you have 2 options. Neither is perfect. I did the other way: cleaner above the BB (more direct out and in), but tighter bend of the cable at the shifter.
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Nice looking +bike!
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The rigid fork is the backup and maybe for winter rides.
If it works... fine. Here we don't have that much steep and hard rocks.
If not, as advised by carbon_dude and others, we'll put a RockShox Pike on it.
I've put a Pike DJ on the dirt bike I'm building, it is a really nice fork indeed.
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I like the look of a full rigid 29+, but I don't want to ride it :)...
Haha! Today's most understated comment! Had a strong love/hate relationship with my full rigid 2016 Trek Stache 5 29+, carbon fork, the first and last such bike Trek made, for good reason. Sold it several weeks ago.
We got millions of rocks in N. Utah bigger than my head, winner of countless international "big head" awards!
OTOH..........such bike seems well suited for "gravel" rides or high ratio of road miles. But high ratio of large rocks like Utah, forget it. Man, such bikes look sweet though, especially full carbon as pictured.
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What's the height of the rider and frame size? I'm trying to choose between getting a custom Ti touring/adventure bike or this 29+ for my nextv project. But I'm not exactly that tall, just a bit shy of 5'10. And a concern that I'd look funny in a large 29+ bike.
Here is a picture of the finished bike:
(http://i.imgur.com/51m9K95.jpg)
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He's 6'2 and took a 21"
I'm 5'10 too, and this is definitely too big for me :)
But a 19" or 17" should do it.
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I'm 1m81 (whatever feet and inches ;) ) and picked a 17" frame (assembled in 27.5+).
Most people would have picked a 19" frame for my size but my inseam is not too big and I wanted this bike to be easy to move around (for real mountain action). So I deliberately picked a smaller size and don't regret so far. My seatpost is well extended, but not at the limit.
The bike feels really lively and turns nicely in tight corners.
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There is good information that can be obtained 24 hours
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Did the CS-496 come with the headset from Peter? Or did you have to pay extra on the order?
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I think it was extra. Talk to Peter, no problems.
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I think it was extra. Talk to Peter, no problems.
Thx
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Posted my build thread over in the 29er section: http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,1508.0.html (http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,1508.0.html)
(https://i.imgur.com/A5kIeRN.jpg)
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Nice build. I have the same frame and my derailleur hanger torn in a crash. I don't have a replacement. Does any one know where can I get a new one?
regars
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I know this is an old one, but looking at the flyxxi version and wondered on sizing.
I'm 6'0.5", 32" inseam, positive ape index, typically on the cusp of L and XL.
Should I go 19" or 21"?
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I know this is an old one, but looking at the flyxxi version and wondered on sizing.
I'm 6'0.5", 32" inseam, positive ape index, typically on the cusp of L and XL.
Should I go 19" or 21"?
My friend with an XL/21" is 187/90cm inseam.
I'm 178/89 and ride L/19" usually, while you are in metric units 184/81cm.
A 21" would probably accommodate better your long torso, with a more comfortable stack height.
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Thanks carbonazza! I was leaning the same way but nice to have a second opinion.