Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: Flo7 on September 09, 2022, 12:56:11 PM
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Hi,
Does anyone see the Speci Epic Evo Clone on aliexpress?
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005003262168065.html?pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21US%20%24795.00%21US%20%24795.00%21%21%21%21%21%4021032fa116626932248916876ef929%2112000024909854492%21im&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu
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I've seen these since few days, there are many vendors of the same frame. Origin is completely unknown to me, looks good anyway but I'm not an expert. I would stick with open mould rather than clones.
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specialized already working in a new version for epic... maybe 2021 model gonna die in near future..
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looking at the linkage I'd say it's closer to Epic geometry that the evo.. I'd suspect a nice low leverage ratio.
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its not EVO, its normal epic frame. for this frame you will need to buy a shock absorber with a brain
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its not EVO, its normal epic frame. for this frame you will need to buy a shock absorber with a brain
Do you? It's quite popular for people to remove the brain once it is in need of service.. I couldn't see myself dropping the coin for it.
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Jeez, Specialized has enough issues with yoke alignment and shock longevity that I really wouldn't be interested in a chiner running the same system. Looks brilliant but a pass from me!
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Jeez, Specialized has enough issues with yoke alignment and shock longevity that I really wouldn't be interested in a chiner running the same system. Looks brilliant but a pass from me!
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Someone already ordered one or is planning to?
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I see that on aliexpress there are customer reviews for this frame. Is there anyone here who has already bought it and can give a detailed review of the frame? About the quality of aluminum parts, bolts, link...
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There is an EVO version available on eBay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/374487443264?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=E3dGxxxUQba&sssrc=2047675&ssuid=F7FhGREXSmq&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Can be purchased with a regular 190x40 shock mount.
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Got the frame delivered today. Ordered on eBay from airwolf. Will be slowly building it up.
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Airwolf?? The same of AliExpress?
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Airwolf?? The same of AliExpress?
Not sure, but probably. I prefer dealing with eBay vs AliEx
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Got the frame delivered today. Ordered on eBay from airwolf. Will be slowly building it up.
what bearings(MAX or not) are used in the frame? what quality are the bolts and axles?
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what bearings(MAX or not) are used in the frame? what quality are the bolts and axles?
Pivot hardware looks fine as well as the axle. I will not be getting into the bearings unless there are issues.
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Pivot hardware looks fine as well as the axle. I will not be getting into the bearings unless there are issues.
It is generally good practice with chinese frames to strip them down, grease everything and then torque it all properly.
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It is generally good practice with chinese frames to strip them down, grease everything and then torque it all properly.
I see. I did check the tq and everything was tight at the pivot assembly. This is my first open mold, so I guess I will undo everything and at least grease it. Don't think I will be pressing the bearings out to lock tight them in place unless they fall out.
I will post an update here when I get into it.
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what bearings(MAX or not) are used in the frame? what quality are the bolts and axles?
I don't think they are MAX type bearings, but I do think they are of decent quality. Some of them are stamped "Japan". All hardware is also decent quality.
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Upon further investigation, I don't think this is an EVO clone. I think this is a regular epic with a modified yoke to fit a regular shock. The linkage design is very similar to the regular epic.
There is a blank hole at the end of the chainstay for the brain unit (plugged with a rubber cap. Also, there are clamps on the chainstay for the brain hose.
Its hard to measure the frame size, but I believe that I am getting reach and stack numbers similar to the regular Large epic as well....470 reach, 605 stack. I will try to verify the angles once I assemble the seat post and the fork.
EDIT: I will check the reach/stack numbers again when the fork is installed. I do think that epic and epic EVO share the same front tringles.
Overall though, the frame appears to be of good quality with descent hardware. Most of the hardware matches the OE Epic sizes, but not all.
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Some vendors, like Allstars, are already selling the version with the modified frame and no brain hole, to be like the Evo.
Any experience with allstars?
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Some vendors, like Allstars, are already selling the version with the modified frame and no brain hole, to be like the Evo.
Any experience with allstars?
Do you have a link to the website?
Linkage is still similar to the regular epic, whether it really matters I do not know. But the rear triangle looks to be reworked to eliminate the brain hole.
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Yes, the brain hole is removed.
https://www.allstarbicycle.com/ (https://www.allstarbicycle.com/)
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Hi
The Frame is not the EVO! You can see at the linkage...
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Little further research showed that the regular epic has a much smaller leverage ratio at 2:1 vs almost 3:1 on the EVO. I am working to fit the 190x45 shock into this frame to see what the actual rear travel is with this frame.
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Is it worth buying this painting with the brain hole removed?
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Is it worth buying this painting with the brain hole removed?
Only if you want to build a regular Epic. With the specified shock (40-50 stroke, unclear in the listing) you will get under 100mm of rear travel.
Epic gets 100mm of travel with 52.5mm stroke. I haven't tested to see is that will fit in this frame. Chain stays on the regular Epic are shorter as well, so if you put a longer than 100mm fork on the front, the bike will want to wheelie more on the climbs. Epic EVO combats this by making chain stays longer.
It's only worth it if you want a pure 100/100 XC bike.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who jumped on this!
I actually got in contact with a sales rep on whatsapp.
I along with some of the folks on this sub love the thrill of a good deal, and rocking a frame thats a fraction of the big names frames. Plus im chinese and love supporting my brothers in them factories.
I got my frame today from AWST on aliexpress, and I requested the epic evo rear triangle, the one without the brain out back.
The frame seems pretty good, I cant find anything visually incorrect from the OG, but thats just a first glance over.
While the outside looks good, the inside looks a bit rough. You can see the pictures I attached of the inside of the headset.
Weights to come.
I hope I along with some of the other folks here can provide some decent information on the frame, as there seems like there has been some interest, just no one jumped on it til now.
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who jumped on this!
I actually got in contact with a sales rep on whatsapp.
I along with some of the folks on this sub love the thrill of a good deal, and rocking a frame thats a fraction of the big names frames. Plus im chinese and love supporting my brothers in them factories.
I got my frame today from AWST on aliexpress, and I requested the epic evo rear triangle, the one without the brain out back.
The frame seems pretty good, I cant find anything visually incorrect from the OG, but thats just a first glance over.
While the outside looks good, the inside looks a bit rough. You can see the pictures I attached of the inside of the headset.
Weights to come.
I hope I along with some of the other folks here can provide some decent information on the frame, as there seems like there has been some interest, just no one jumped on it til now.
Nice. Looks good. Just be aware that the linkage is regular epic.
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Nice. Looks good. Just be aware that the linkage is regular epic.
Yeah I'm a bit disappointed about that. I just found that out haha.
Also looks like the rear triangle is different from the evo otherwise i was thinking of just buying the linkage for the epic evo.
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Also looks like the rear triangle is different from the evo otherwise i was thinking of just buying the linkage for the epic evo.
Yes, Evo linkage will not fit this frame. I did some testing and the frame might be capable of slightly more than 100mm travel, but I do not think you will get 110mm like the evo. That being said, with the leverage ratio of 2:1 max, you will need a very long stroke to get over 100mm of travel. I also think that a 200mm shock will fit. FYI, my frame was advertised to have 122mm of travel, which is impossible with this linkage set-up.
Good luck to you building this up. My plan was 130 front and 120 rear, but since the frame isn't capable, I opted to return it. I was planning on reusing the suspension components I currently have, so to build a 100/100 capable XC bike (what this frame is designed for) would cost me a lot of unnecessary $$. If I had the XC suspension components already, or I was buying suspension specifically for this frame, I would have kept it.
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Yes, Evo linkage will not fit this frame. I did some testing and the frame might be capable of slightly more than 100mm travel, but I do not think you will get 110mm like the evo. That being said, with the leverage ratio of 2:1 max, you will need a very long stroke to get over 100mm of travel. I also think that a 200mm shock will fit. FYI, my frame was advertised to have 122mm of travel, which is impossible with this linkage set-up.
Good luck to you building this up. My plan was 130 front and 120 rear, but since the frame isn't capable, I opted to return it. I was planning on reusing the suspension components I currently have, so to build a 100/100 capable XC bike (what this frame is designed for) would cost me a lot of unnecessary $$. If I had the XC suspension components already, or I was buying suspension specifically for this frame, I would have kept it.
Having a 100mm travel fork and a 190*40 shock, do you recommend the frame for 100-100 xc travel?
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Having a 100mm travel fork and a 190*40 shock, do you recommend the frame for 100-100 xc travel?
With 40mm stroke, you will only get less than 80mm rear travel I assume. Assumption is based on the fact that the regular epic get 100mm with 52.5 stroke, so this makes the leverage ratio less than 2:1.
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With 40mm stroke, you will only get less than 80mm rear travel I assume. Assumption is based on the fact that the regular epic get 100mm with 52.5 stroke, so this makes the leverage ratio less than 2:1.
With the ordinary shock need 190*40, with epic shock 200*50
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With the ordinary shock need 190*40, with epic shock 200*50
I tested the frame with 190x45mm shock and got approx 88mm of travel. It is tough to measure, but I definitely wasn't getting anything even close to 120mm of travel.
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I tested the frame with 190x45mm shock and got approx 88mm of travel. It is tough to measure, but I definitely wasn't getting anything even close to 120mm of travel.
88mm with the normal link?
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88mm with the normal link?
Yes
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Yes
But your frame have brain hole, i want the new design with no brain holes
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But your frame have brain hole, i want the new design with no brain holes
True, but I am not sure if the revised rear triangle is any different otherwise to make any impact on the amount of travel.
Main reason why the Evo has more travel is the linkage design which has a leverage ratio close to 3:1 vs 2:1 on the regular epic. 40mm stroke with 3:1 leverage is capable of 110+ travel.
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True, but I am not sure if the revised rear triangle is any different otherwise to make any impact on the amount of travel.
Main reason why the Evo has more travel is the linkage design which has a leverage ratio close to 3:1 vs 2:1 on the regular epic. 40mm stroke with 3:1 leverage is capable of 110+ travel.
your link is for evo o normal epic link?
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your link is for evo o normal epic link?
Normal epic as seen in the picture I posted.
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Normal epic as seen in the picture I posted.
Have photo or the link please???
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Have photo or the link please???
Yeah, go look at reply #10, 18 and 19 of this threat. All the info is there.
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Yes, Evo linkage will not fit this frame. I did some testing and the frame might be capable of slightly more than 100mm travel, but I do not think you will get 110mm like the evo. That being said, with the leverage ratio of 2:1 max, you will need a very long stroke to get over 100mm of travel. I also think that a 200mm shock will fit. FYI, my frame was advertised to have 122mm of travel, which is impossible with this linkage set-up.
Good luck to you building this up. My plan was 130 front and 120 rear, but since the frame isn't capable, I opted to return it. I was planning on reusing the suspension components I currently have, so to build a 100/100 capable XC bike (what this frame is designed for) would cost me a lot of unnecessary $$. If I had the XC suspension components already, or I was buying suspension specifically for this frame, I would have kept it.
Haha i'm completely with you on that. I also had some hardware for a 130 front and 120 rear :(
I'm actually in contact with the supplier, im trying to wrestle with him, telling him that the link is not the evo link and the rear triangle is a bit longer. But hes convinced that the rear is the same haha.
I wish I could get the true dimensions of the epic evo rear triangle so I could send the supplier the evo rear link, and the factory could revise the design.
Its still and insanely goodlooking frame with the short comings of being marketed as the evo.
Its interesting that you tested and got less travel than the normal epic, which is 100mm.
Could you share how you got that measurement? I have the non brain rear triangle so I can see if mine is any different.
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I tested the frame with 190x45mm shock and got approx 88mm of travel. It is tough to measure, but I definitely wasn't getting anything even close to 120mm of travel.
with that kind of travel, might as well put a hard fork on it to make it a.... front tail?
maybe slap some gravel bars on it and call it a gravel bike
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Haha i'm completely with you on that. I also had some hardware for a 130 front and 120 rear :(
I'm actually in contact with the supplier, im trying to wrestle with him, telling him that the link is not the evo link and the rear triangle is a bit longer. But hes convinced that the rear is the same haha.
I wish I could get the true dimensions of the epic evo rear triangle so I could send the supplier the evo rear link, and the factory could revise the design.
Its still and insanely goodlooking frame with the short comings of being marketed as the evo.
Its interesting that you tested and got less travel than the normal epic, which is 100mm.
Could you share how you got that measurement? I have the non brain rear triangle so I can see if mine is any different.
Do you have the frame with new desing?
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Could you share how you got that measurement? I have the non brain rear triangle so I can see if mine is any different.
I had the bike in the stand at approximate correct riding/static position. This can be verified by checking the head tube angle. Then you can measure from the floor to the center of the rear axle, record the measurement. Compress the suspension and measure again. The difference between the two measurements is your approximate travel. I got exactly 3.5 inches with 45mm stroke.
I also took some measurements without the shock and determined that there is clearance for close to or maybe a little more than 100mm of travel. I also measured the eye-to-eye shock length at each of the suspension extremes (comp vs fully extended) and determined that a 52.5 stroke should theoretically fit. There is some interference between the yoke and the link at full extension, so the actual shock would be needed to verify that it will fit.
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I'm actually in contact with the supplier, im trying to wrestle with him, telling him that the link is not the evo link and the rear triangle is a bit longer. But hes convinced that the rear is the same haha.
Evo rear triangle is longer by 5mm (chainstay length or rear center per geometry charts) It is tough to measure the length since it's dependent on the rotation of the rear triangle and the measurement is supposed to be from the center of the BB.
I asked on the Epic EVO Facebook page to take some linkage measurements (not the triangle) and got enough info to determine that a simple linkage swap is impossible.
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Evo rear triangle is longer by 5mm (chainstay length or rear center per geometry charts) It is tough to measure the length since it's dependent on the rotation of the rear triangle and the measurement is supposed to be from the center of the BB.
I asked on the Epic EVO Facebook page to take some linkage measurements (not the triangle) and got enough info to determine that a simple linkage swap is impossible.
Do you mean that with the change of link it is not valid to give the measure that they say it gives? Even if it's the normal epic?
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Do you mean that with the change of link it is not valid to give the measure that they say it gives? Even if it's the normal epic?
It will be close. Since the Evo chainstay is slightly longer, technically it will have more travel with the same linkage, but we are talking 5mm difference, doubt it will be noticeable.
Linkage is the biggest issue for sure.
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Evo rear triangle is longer by 5mm (chainstay length or rear center per geometry charts) It is tough to measure the length since it's dependent on the rotation of the rear triangle and the measurement is supposed to be from the center of the BB.
I asked on the Epic EVO Facebook page to take some linkage measurements (not the triangle) and got enough info to determine that a simple linkage swap is impossible.
Yeah i saw the same geo charts.
I really want to give some accurate measurements to the supplier, I was even thinking of buying a baseline epic evo to reference and get measurements.
If someone with an epic evo wants to contribute, that would be ideal. I afraid that going off pictures will be "in the ball park" but I dont know if thats good enough.
Although thinking it through, if i get him the new linkage, he should be able to create a new design with the chainstay length and the seat stay length + new pivot linkage. Is that right?
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Although thinking it through, if i get him the new linkage, he should be able to create a new design with the chainstay length and the seat stay length + new pivot linkage. Is that right?
I am not following your question, but if the supplier can come up with an EVO like linkage (3:1 leverage), I think the frame will work fine with the regular epic rear triangle.
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I am not following your question, but if the supplier can come up with an EVO like linkage (3:1 leverage), I think the frame will work fine with the regular epic rear triangle.
Oh I was under the impression that even if we get the new linkage, we would need a revised rear triangle.
What makes me think that is
1. On the official specialized replacement part site, the Evo and regular epic have two different rear triangle part numbers. https://support.specialized.com/epic/en/service-maintenance/replacement-parts
2. Logically, the Evo linkage moves the rear triangle back a bit, increasing the leverage ratio. I would think that the angle between the seat stay and chainstay is a bit different to maintain the bike geometry.
I’m only theorizing here.
If it’s only the Evo linkage that’s different. I see it being sold here: https://www.francesconibike.com/en-us/products/ricambio-specialized-shl-my21-epic-evo-shock-link
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Oh I was under the impression that even if we get the new linkage, we would need a revised rear triangle.
What makes me think that is
1. On the official specialized replacement part site, the Evo and regular epic have two different rear triangle part numbers. https://support.specialized.com/epic/en/service-maintenance/replacement-parts
2. Logically, the Evo linkage moves the rear triangle back a bit, increasing the leverage ratio. I would think that the angle between the seat stay and chainstay is a bit different to maintain the bike geometry.
I’m only theorizing here.
If it’s only the Evo linkage that’s different. I see it being sold here: https://www.francesconibike.com/en-us/products/ricambio-specialized-shl-my21-epic-evo-shock-link
No, you are correct, the rear triangles are different between the Evo and regular epic. What I am saying is that if they can make an Evo style linkage to work with this rear triangle it would good enough.
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No, you are correct, the rear triangles are different between the Evo and regular epic. What I am saying is that if they can make an Evo style linkage to work with this rear triangle it would good enough.
Oh interesting okay.
I was trying to get the supplier as close as the original Evo geometry + dimensions as possible, but I see what you are saying.
If a new linkage was created for the current rear and front triangle, I wonder how much further you can push the rear triangle out. The Evo seems to push it out 10, 20mm?
How would the geo be effected? I think the seat tube angle and head tube angle would steepen. The bottom bracket height would increase as well.
I have a 3-D printer with poly carbonate material and pretty good cad skills so I might mock something up.
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If a new linkage was created for the current rear and front triangle, I wonder how much further you can push the rear triangle out. The Evo seems to push it out 10, 20mm?
From what I remember, I think it's only 5mm.
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I also measured the chainstay length on mine and I’m seeing about 443mm, which is a 5mm longer than the epic Evo…
How much are you getting?
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How much are you getting?
I was getting 435mm, but again, chainstay is hard to measure because it depends on where in the travel you are.
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No, you are correct, the rear triangles are different between the Evo and regular epic. What I am saying is that if they can make an Evo style linkage to work with this rear triangle it would good enough.
Looks like it might be possible.
One concern that I have is that with the adjusted leverage, it might introduce larger strain on the rear triangle.
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What I've been totally wasting my time on.
Do I know what I'm doing? Absolutely not
Am I having fun? Hell yeah
Interestingly, the chainstay length is about 438ish like this.
@wwwru, how are you measuring the chainstay length? I'm doing it with the shock totally uncompressed (Which is how I though the chainstay was suppose to be measured from manufacturers)
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What I've been totally wasting my time on.
Do I know what I'm doing? Absolutely not
Am I having fun? Hell yeah
Interestingly, the chainstay length is about 438ish like this.
@wwwru, how are you measuring the chainstay length? I'm doing it with the shock totally uncompressed (Which is how I though the chainstay was suppose to be measured from manufacturers)
What length of shock did you have? That link is from the Evo but there is also the normal link.
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@wwwru, how are you measuring the chainstay length?
I measured it with the flex stays in the relaxed position, which with the supplied linkage ended up being uncompressed 190mm long shock.
Is that the prototype 3D printed linkage?
The other unknown about this frame is the relaxed position of the flex stays. On the Canyon Lux for example, flex stays are in the relaxed position at sag....approximately. On this frame, with the supplied linkage, flex stays are relaxed at full extension. It makes sense for them to be relaxed at sag, but I can't really confirm that since I only have one bike model to compare it to and there is not much info on the internet.
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What length of shock did you have? That link is from the Evo but there is also the normal link.
I have a 190x45 shock. Its not the link from an evo, I actually 3D Printed it.
I measured it with the flex stays in the relaxed position, which with the supplied linkage ended up being uncompressed 190mm long shock.
Is that the prototype 3D printed linkage?
The other unknown about this frame is the relaxed position of the flex stays. On the Canyon Lux for example, flex stays are in the relaxed position at sag....approximately. On this frame, with the supplied linkage, flex stays are relaxed at full extension. It makes sense for them to be relaxed at sag, but I can't really confirm that since I only have one bike model to compare it to and there is not much info on the internet.
Ah yeah I'm not too sure about that either.
It is the prototype, but I'm afraid that it wont work unless the supplier also redesigns the yoke.
Attached my sketch out on a 3D software, and the epic evo manual.
The yoke needs to be a 2 piece split design similar to how the seat stay is. I'm afraid it'll be extremely unreliable with the way I have sketched it out, exerting a ton of shear stress on the m8 bolt.
:( I'm probably just going to put the other linkage back on and give up.
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Thing is, I actually measured the rear travel with the new linkage I designed, and I actually measured around 130mm of rear travel. So its definitely possible, but I'm not sure what my linkage has done to the rest of the geometry.
I also heard some disturbing creaks from the rear triangle when moving it to full compression.
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does anyone have feedback after long term use?
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does anyone have feedback after long term use?
I ended up returning the frame back to airwolf for a full refund. Definitely want to give them a shout-out for working with me on this.
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I ended up returning the frame back to airwolf for a full refund. Definitely want to give them a shout-out for working with me on this.
Is the frame really that bad?
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Not bad at all if you want a 100/100 XC bike. It's a regular epic frame. I wanted more travel.....I wanted the epic evo.
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Not bad at all if you want a 100/100 XC bike. It's a regular epic frame. I wanted more travel.....I wanted the epic evo.
this bushings or bearings? (marked on the photo)
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this bushings or bearings? (marked on the photo)
I am 99% sure there were bearings everywhere. I don't remember seeing any bushings, but its been a while. What I do remember 100% is that the linkage arrangement matched that of the regular epic, except some bearing sizes were different. So basically if the real epic has a bearing there, this frame would have one there as well.
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Thing is, I actually measured the rear travel with the new linkage I designed, and I actually measured around 130mm of rear travel. So its definitely possible, but I'm not sure what my linkage has done to the rest of the geometry.
I also heard some disturbing creaks from the rear triangle when moving it to full compression.
Wow, I appreciate you guys spearheading this. I am now looking at the same AWST “Epic Evo”. It certainly is an attractive package. What’s the max travel I could get on the rear? What shock dims? In other words, is there a path here with the AWST "Evo" frame to get 100 mm of travel minimum? I'd be happy with that. I'm not trying to snap the rear lol.
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this bushings or bearings? (marked on the photo)
Looks like you're onboard too!
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Looks like you're onboard too!
you must first figure out what it is made of) while I’m just studying, in fact there is no technical information, the sellers on Ali also don’t know anything or don’t want to tell ...
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you must first figure out what it is made of) while I’m just studying, in fact there is no technical information, the sellers on Ali also don’t know anything or don’t want to tell ...
It's a good point, but the listing on the seller's site definitely has some reviews and good experiences on it. I asked AWST through whatsapp, he says with a 190x45 shock you get about 100mm of travel. That is decent enough for me. But I agree, there's a lack of clarity on info. The geo chart is even for the older Epic w/ brain. Sigh...
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looks like the frame is still in the process of being improved...
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looks like the frame is still in the process of being improved...
Very interesting. I am in communication with the seller from AWST, which your photo on the left looks to have a watermark for. What i’ve learned is:
The triangles are 1:1 copies of the original. That goes for the Brain triangle and EVO triangle. It’s the linkage that has been reworked… he says “the size is different” but doesn’t elaborate further. I wouldn’t want to drop money on the carbon linkage for it to fit but snap the rear as it hasn’t been tested to take that sort of load. I’m likely going to ask about that linkage and if there’s some sort of development recently done there I think i’ll just buy it. And pick up a used shock for it.
The seller recommends a 190x45mm shock. When asked what the max travel setup that I can have with his frame he says “Maximum stroke is 105mm. Maybe less than 100mm of travel” ???
I’m still unsure of the leverage ratio to expect, here’s the two options. or maybe something in between…
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Very interesting. I am in communication with the seller from AWST, which your photo on the left looks to have a watermark for. What i’ve learned is:
The triangles are 1:1 copies of the original. That goes for the Brain triangle and EVO triangle. It’s the linkage that has been reworked… he says “the size is different” but doesn’t elaborate further. I wouldn’t want to drop money on the carbon linkage for it to fit but snap the rear as it hasn’t been tested to take that sort of load. I’m likely going to ask about that linkage and if there’s some sort of development recently done there I think i’ll just buy it. And pick up a used shock for it.
The seller recommends a 190x45mm shock. When asked what the max travel setup that I can have with his frame he says “Maximum stroke is 105mm. Maybe less than 100mm of travel” ???
I’m still unsure of the leverage ratio to expect, here’s the two options. or maybe something in between…
leverage ratio of 1.9, that is, from the usual epic. A shock with 45mm will give you 85-90mm of travel. For use on rough terrain, this is quite enough.
If you buy, then with great interest I will read more or less old reviews. Since I'm not ready to risk and buy this frame blindly :)
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I had a carbonda 936, it's a great frame. Now copy epic HT compared to carbonda is a cheap frame, so I am very careful about copy epic suspension
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leverage ratio of 1.9, that is, from the usual epic. A shock with 45mm will give you 85-90mm of travel. For use on rough terrain, this is quite enough.
If you buy, then with great interest I will read more or less old reviews. Since I'm not ready to risk and buy this frame blindly :)
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I had a carbonda 936, it's a great frame. Now copy epic HT compared to carbonda is a cheap frame, so I am very careful about copy epic suspension
My Carbonda 936 is too small for me, I am trying to sell it. I rode it 5 times.
Epic HT from which seller? I bought that as well from Spcycle and it cracked on the first test ride around the chainstay near the brake posts. Terrible and waste of time...
I doubt I will make suspension like the Epic EVO with this frame, but I do want to understand what was altered and if it's doable to attach the link/yoke of the epic evo and everything match up. Reading the original conversations, there are some inconsistencies, possibly they misunderstood each other.
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My Carbonda 936 is too small for me, I am trying to sell it. I rode it 5 times.
Epic HT from which seller? I bought that as well from Spcycle and it cracked on the first test ride around the chainstay near the brake posts. Terrible and waste of time...
I doubt I will make suspension like the Epic EVO with this frame, but I do want to understand what was altered and if it's doable to attach the link/yoke of the epic evo and everything match up. Reading the original conversations, there are some inconsistencies, possibly they misunderstood each other.
my epicHT from spcycle...
attaching a suspension link from epic evo will not work, different chainstay. On a copy of the chainstay from the brain epic, they simply removed the hole under the brain
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my epicHT from spcycle...
attaching a suspension link from epic evo will not work, different chainstay. On a copy of the chainstay from the brain epic, they simply removed the hole under the brain
My friend, AWST sells 1:1 EVO front and rear triangles, but the linkage and yoke is a copy of the geo of the Epic w/ brain. Idk why, probably less carbon strength needed for that leverage ratio, either way i think i’m getting it.
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either way i think i’m getting it.
I will read your comments about this frame with great pleasure and interest. How well the frame is made, how reliable it is, how rigid it is in bending and twisting
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My friend, AWST sells 1:1 EVO front and rear triangles, but the linkage and yoke is a copy of the geo of the Epic w/ brain. Idk why, probably less carbon strength needed for that leverage ratio, either way i think i’m getting it.
Linkage layout is what increases the leverage ratio on the epic. To accommodate the new linkage, rear triangles are different on the epic vs Evo. Front triangles are identical.
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Linkage layout is what increases the leverage ratio on the epic. To accommodate the new linkage, rear triangles are different on the epic vs Evo. Front triangles are identical.
Yes, we are on the same page. There is no brain involved on the frame I am personally looking at from AWST. This is the one is as seen from post #20 The seller confirmed his rear Brain triangle and EVO triangles are 1:1. It is slightly different from your experience with Airwolf.
The only difference is the yoke and linkage, which the seller confirmed this morning that they've all been updated to the one shared in the photo on the left by ilyamaksimov from post #74. Looks to have been made more 'minimal' or refined. It is still not the 110 or more in travel, but even if it is 95, I think that will be sufficient for my application. That 438 chainstay geo paired with my 120 SID, I think I will be happy.
As far leverage ratio goes, it looks like we are still looking at 1:2 as shown in the '21 Epic w Brain curvature due to that older geo linkage. I like small bump compliance, but also need protection from bottoming out. What shock tune in Rockshox would serve this ratio?
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I will read your comments about this frame with great pleasure and interest. How well the frame is made, how reliable it is, how rigid it is in bending and twisting
I will give you a detailed of a report as I can! I would love to see more people on this frame, as long as they accept it is not an Epic Evo and are ok with the 90mm suspension :D
I wish I could know what happened to the member who was 3D printing his linkage...
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Very interesting. I am in communication with the seller from AWST, which your photo on the left looks to have a watermark for. What i’ve learned is:
The triangles are 1:1 copies of the original. That goes for the Brain triangle and EVO triangle. It’s the linkage that has been reworked… he says “the size is different” but doesn’t elaborate further. I wouldn’t want to drop money on the carbon linkage for it to fit but snap the rear as it hasn’t been tested to take that sort of load. I’m likely going to ask about that linkage and if there’s some sort of development recently done there I think i’ll just buy it. And pick up a used shock for it.
The seller recommends a 190x45mm shock. When asked what the max travel setup that I can have with his frame he says “Maximum stroke is 105mm. Maybe less than 100mm of travel” ???
I’m still unsure of the leverage ratio to expect, here’s the two options. or maybe something in between…
enough travel, it is all ok! i like this... build qith 120mm fork... be wonderfull racemachine or a fast all-do-it bike
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Yes, we are on the same page. There is no brain involved on the frame I am personally looking at from AWST. This is the one is as seen from post #20 The seller confirmed his rear Brain triangle and EVO triangles are 1:1. It is slightly different from your experience with Airwolf.
I asked people on the EPIC Evo Facebook page to give some rough measurements of the rear triangle, they they did not match up at all to that of the regular Epic or to what I received from Airwolf.
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I asked people on the EPIC Evo Facebook page to give some rough measurements of the rear triangle, they they did not match up at all to that of the regular Epic or to what I received from Airwolf.
My guess would be because of your Brain rear triangle. But if not matching up to the OEM, then that means Airwolf doesn’t use a 1:1. AWST does, they use the EVO rear, 1:1.
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enough travel, it is all ok! i like this... build qith 120mm fork... be wonderfull racemachine or a fast all-do-it bike
Putting a 120 on the front of the regular epic will be make the seat tube angle slacker.
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My guess would be because of your Brain rear triangle. But if not matching up to the OEM, then that means Airwolf doesn’t use a 1:1. AWST does, they use the EVO rear, 1:1.
I don't know about this AWST seller, seems like all of them tell you what you want to hear. Get it, and let us know what you think. Hopefully it works for you. What are you planning to run on the front (travel)?
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enough travel, it is all ok! i like this... build qith 120mm fork... be wonderfull racemachine or a fast all-do-it bike
how many kilometers and climb?
Are the bushings in the suspension link still loose? when the backlash appears where will you get new bushings?
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Airwolf sells this frame with 2 options: EV linkage and EP linkage? What to choose? I do not have a rear shock yet. Only 110mm SID fork. I plan to build XC 100\110 bike. So standard epic geo wold be fine. thanks!
https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005005099496183.html
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Airwolf sells this frame with 2 options: EV linkage and EP linkage? What to choose? I do not have a rear shock yet. Only 110mm SID fork. I plan to build XC 100\110 bike. So standard epic geo wold be fine. thanks!
https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005005099496183.html
That depends. Do you want to use a normal eye to eye shock? Go EV (Epic EVO). If you want the threaded shock, used for in the Brain configuration, go EP (Epic).
If you’re not installing and using a brain, why get the frame with the Brain rear end? Get the EVO package… I would buy the one offered by AllStar cycling, his name is AWST Cycling Tactics on ali. He has an updated structure linkage and yoke. As of like a month ago.
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Get the EVO package… I would buy the one offered by AllStar cycling, his name is AWST Cycling Tactics on ali.
Thanks, found it. I've liked the painting.
He has an updated structure linkage and yoke. As of like a month ago.
What is the benefit of updated linkage and yoke gives?
btw, this shock RockShox SIDLuxe Ultimate RL 190x40 will fit this frame?:
https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/rockshox-sidluxe-ultimate-rl-shock/137670131/p
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Thanks, found it. I've liked the painting.
What is the benefit of updated linkage and yoke gives?
btw, this shock RockShox SIDLuxe Ultimate RL 190x40 will fit this frame?:
https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/rockshox-sidluxe-ultimate-rl-shock/137670131/p
The new linkage? That I am not sure of. I haven’t asked him yet. I feel sort of bad, he always seems busy and i’ve asked him like 25 questions about his frame lol. I hope he knows I do want to buy, that i’m not just kicking tires and being neurotic. It appears to be the same dimensions as before, so you probably just improved weight/structure.
The shock question: Yes. According to AWST seller, he says a 190x40 fits, but that he recommends a 190x45 eye to eye shock (Not the Epic screw on one) for its simplicity and to realize the full travel of the frameset. Btw, according to leverage ratios of 2:1, you will be getting about 88-95mm of travel with that 45mm stroke. With 40mm you should theoretically expect 80-83mm of travel.
Luckily for you, that shock’s aircan can be screwed off and you can remove the 5mm bumper to extend the stroke to 45. That’s what I plan to do myself actually. I don’t know exactly how yet as I haven’t done so :P
I hope someone who knows more about suspension can confirm, the leverage ration of 2:1 calls for roughly a M compression L rebound in Rockshox, is that right?
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I hope someone who knows more about suspension can confirm, the leverage ration of 2:1 calls for roughly a M compression L rebound in Rockshox, is that right?
something like that, yes. But in fact, the compression L can also be, perhaps it will even fit better.
there is a thread on mtbr about converting old epic to bikeyoke link sus. People ride with MM tune shock and don't feel uncomfortable about it.
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https://www.foromtb.com/threads/chiner-doble-poquito-a-poquito.884768/page-215
I didn't manage to register with permissions to discuss. To ask the owner of this frame about his impressions of it
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Not bad at all if you want a 100/100 XC bike. It's a regular epic frame. I wanted more travel.....I wanted the epic evo.
Airwolf version comes with UDH rear handger? It is a lot cheaper for me to get Airwolf than AWST (including shipping rates). AWST clearly points that they do use UDH.
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Airwolf version comes with UDH rear handger? It is a lot cheaper for me to get Airwolf than AWST (including shipping rates). AWST clearly points that they do use UDH.
My frame from Airwolf had a UHD, or at least a close copy.
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My frame from Airwolf had a UHD, or at least a close copy.
Seller from Aliexpress replied "no UDH"... strange.
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That depends. Do you want to use a normal eye to eye shock? Go EV (Epic EVO). If you want the threaded shock, used for in the Brain configuration, go EP (Epic).
If you’re not installing and using a brain, why get the frame with the Brain rear end? Get the EVO package… I would buy the one offered by AllStar cycling, his name is AWST Cycling Tactics on ali. He has an updated structure linkage and yoke. As of like a month ago.
I've talked to Airwolf, they could also send updated version of this frame. (without brain holes, etc). It could be, that they source it from the same place :)
So I've odrered the updated version from Airwolf. Lets see.. The only concern for me: If i buy trunion version of RockShox SIDLuxe Ultimate RL (that comes without bushing), is everything I need to install it on a frame comes from a frame supplier? This is a first time I'm getting a full sus bike :)
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The only concern for me: If i buy trunion version of RockShox SIDLuxe Ultimate RL (that comes without bushing), is everything I need to install it on a frame comes from a frame supplier?
No, you will need to source proper bushings or have them fabricated. Bushings that came with the frame were more like place holders and did not fit the rockshox deluxe shock I was planning on using. My frame came with a hanger and a headset only. It did not even have grommets around the internal cable routing holes.
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I've talked to Airwolf, they could also send updated version of this frame. (without brain holes, etc). It could be, that they source it from the same place :)
So I've odrered the updated version from Airwolf. Lets see.. The only concern for me: If i buy trunion version of RockShox SIDLuxe Ultimate RL (that comes without bushing), is everything I need to install it on a frame comes from a frame supplier? This is a first time I'm getting a full sus bike :)
why trunion shock? the shock is standart type shock... the frame shock points are 19mm and 13mm.. no way to fit trunion shock
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why trunion shock? the shock is standart type shock... the frame shock points are 19mm and 13mm.. no way to fit trunion shock
Sorry, I am new for this rear shock standards, confusing. I plan to buy this one. Looks like it is standard:
https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/rockshox-sidluxe-ultimate-rl-shock/137670131/p
And I have no idea yet, what else I have to buy to be able to mount that shock on this Evo clone frame. :(
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Sorry, I am new for this rear shock standards, confusing. I plan to buy this one. Looks like it is standard:
https://www.tradeinn.com/bikeinn/en/rockshox-sidluxe-ultimate-rl-shock/137670131/p
And I have no idea yet, what else I have to buy to be able to mount that shock on this Evo clone frame. :(
Do you have photos of what airwolf offers? That’s interesting, they do not advertise that. I wonder about the quality differences. From ali, Airwolf weight numbers are heavier.
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Do you have photos of what airwolf offers? That’s interesting, they do not advertise that. I wonder about the quality differences. From ali, Airwolf weight numbers are heavier.
They sent me photo of rear triangle. See attachement. I will post update here, when I'll receive it.
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They sent me photo of rear triangle. See attachement. I will post update here, when I'll receive it.
Reached out to Airwolf thru Ali, got much of the same correspondence, and after some heated responses the seller finally made it clear that they do the new yoke as well. Language barrier!
And asking about the UDH this is the response I got. Looks like it’s there. I’m weighing out now to buy from Airwolf vs AWST.
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Does anyone have the new version? Has anyone got it to 100mm of travel yet? if so what stroke/length of the shock did you use? and is it UDH compatible?
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Does anyone have the new version? Has anyone got it to 100mm of travel yet? if so what stroke/length of the shock did you use? and is it UDH compatible?
Brother I encourage you to read the conversation thus far, i think all your questions will be answered
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yeah, but Airwolf says 100mm of travel with a 190x45 shock and you guys say otherwise.
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yeah, but Airwolf says 100mm of travel with a 190x45 shock and you guys say otherwise.
They may say that, yes. People found that wasn’t the case with the brain rear end. I haven’t bought the EVO frame yet so I can’t confirm for you. I did just buy a Fox DPS 190x45 though. Low compression, medium rebound. I hope i picked correctly!
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My frame is coming
Im gonna go with a sid lux ultimate to match my fork
Any recommendations for shock tune?
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My frame is coming
Im gonna go with a sid lux ultimate to match my fork
Any recommendations for shock tune?
Who did you order from? Both Airwolf and AWST should be sending the new lighter, revised yoke design. What they explained was shock hardware is included. We will see about that…
I am awaiting someone to share their seller and their take on the build quality, but I will probably pick from one of the two!
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I ordered from Airwolf with the new design
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Where is the Frame with the EVO linkage?? Picture please?
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These are photos pre assembly
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Where is the Frame with the EVO linkage?? Picture please?
To my knowledge, there is no EVO Linkage options unless you buy OEM. Even if you do set that up on these frames, keep in mind they are not proven or tested to handle that amount of flex in the rear triangle.
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These are photos pre assembly
I wonder how high quality aluminum inserts are made
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Received mine today from Airwolf.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3843.0;attach=16306)
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Received mine today from Airwolf.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3843.0;attach=16306)
Lots of paint oversray on the bb
Should get it refaced
Also anything on the shock?
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Also anything on the shock?
did not get your question, sorry.
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Was able to build it today. Bushing provided did not suit for my rockshox shock. So I have to trim down my existing DU 20 bushings.. A lot of work with rasp and some with ange grinder. And it was ready to go.
Done 1hr ride today. No creaks, sounds, ets. Very quiet ride and bike is very responsive. I like it.
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Was able to build it today. Bushing provided did not suit for my rockshox shock. So I have to trim down my existing DU 20 bushings.. A lot of work with rasp and some with ange grinder. And it was ready to go.
Done 1hr ride today. No creaks, sounds, ets. Very quiet ride and bike is very responsive. I like it.
you need to ride at least 2000 km and 20,000 m uphill ...
preferably with jumps, drops and other mtb loads
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Was able to build it today. Bushing provided did not suit for my rockshox shock. So I have to trim down my existing DU 20 bushings.. A lot of work with rasp and some with ange grinder. And it was ready to go.
Done 1hr ride today. No creaks, sounds, ets. Very quiet ride and bike is very responsive. I like it.
Very nice! I just made the purchase myself, from AWST. Size Large for a 6 ft rider. 745 USD. Did you do any disassembly or servicing of the moving parts? I might check and grease the bearings when it arrives.
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Very nice! I just made the purchase myself, from AWST. Size Large for a 6 ft rider. 745 USD. Did you do any disassembly or servicing of the moving parts? I might check and grease the bearings when it arrives.
I've just disassembled links to see the bearings, they were smooth. So I just put everthing back and gone for a ride.
Wonder what kind of bushings AWST provide with its frame...
I might check and grease the bearings when it arrives.
I see no reason doing so. I will just replace bearing when these worn out.
you need to ride at least 2000 km and 20,000 m uphill ...
preferably with jumps, drops and other mtb loads
Do I have a deadline for this?
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I've just disassembled links to see the bearings, they were smooth. So I just put everthing back and gone for a ride.
Wonder what kind of bushings AWST provide with its frame...
I see no reason doing so. I will just replace bearing when these worn out.
Do I have a deadline for this?
Just preventative for grit and creaking I guess. And how much was the Airwolf package?
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Was able to build it today. Bushing provided did not suit for my rockshox shock. So I have to trim down my existing DU 20 bushings.. A lot of work with rasp and some with ange grinder. And it was ready to go.
Done 1hr ride today. No creaks, sounds, ets. Very quiet ride and bike is very responsive. I like it.
What shock did you use? And what tune?
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Do I have a deadline for this?
Lol. Just enjoy the damn thing! Good to see someone actually building this up. I gave up way to easy lol.
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Received mine today from Airwolf.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3843.0;attach=16306)
Can you tell me how long the delivery took?
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What shock did you use? And what tune?
Sidluxe ultimate rl. Bushings were custom made... Not sure about the tune, just pumped it to 120psi and gone for a ride. No creaks or sounds after 10hrs of riding.
Delivery took about 3 weeks.
Costs... You can check it on AliExpress yourself. It could be different for different regions (shipping rates).
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Sidluxe ultimate rl. Bushings were custom made... Not sure about the tune, just pumped it to 120psi and gone for a ride. No creaks or sounds after 10hrs of riding.
Delivery took about 3 weeks.
Costs... You can check it on AliExpress yourself. It could be different for different regions (shipping rates).
The shock tune can be found engraved on the back of the shock, opposite side of the lockout lever. Would be good to share if possible, so can get a gauge on the tune that would be ideal for the frame and linkage.
I purchased a Fox DPS that’s 190x45mm, compression is Light, rebound is Medium. 3 position lock lever. I will share the feel once it is assembled. I weigh 178 lbs, and i’m 6 ft waiting on a size Large.
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What it looks like raw
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What it looks like raw
Nice. I had them paint mine the Sant Cruz grey. I’m ordering an all road from Carbonda in raw. Does
the frame look to have body filler on the carbon?
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The shock tune can be found engraved on the back of the shock, opposite side of the lockout lever. Would be good to share if possible, so can get a gauge on the tune that would be ideal for the frame and linkage.
Hope you are looking for this information? Btw, I weight 72kg, frame size M.
https://trailhead.rockshox.com/en/specs/28T23218794
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This is how mine hand-mande adjusted bushings looks like. I have to buy\order precice machined...could not find correct sizes online yet. Linkage and frame do use 8mm bolt.
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Nice. I had them paint mine the Sant Cruz grey. I’m ordering an all road from Carbonda in raw. Does
the frame look to have body filler on the carbon?
[/quote
The frame looks a bit scratchy when it comes but gets polished up naturally as you continue.
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Do I have a deadline for this?
I mean, it's too early to draw any conclusions about the quality and reliability of the frame
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200km done. No creaks/sounds yet :)
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that looks very nice! (i ordered my frame from all stars a few days ago)
does it feel like a 100mm bike on the rear? you have a 190x40mm shock? do you think a 200x51 will fit?
thank you!
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My shock is 190x40. I do not know how to correctly measure the travel. It's a first full sus for me.
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200km done. No creaks/sounds yet :)
Is there a difference in stiffness between hardtail and full suspension frames when pedaling? does the full suspension have the same soft frame in the bottom bracket as the hardtail?
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that looks very nice! (i ordered my frame from all stars a few days ago)
does it feel like a 100mm bike on the rear? you have a 190x40mm shock? do you think a 200x51 will fit?
thank you!
The manager i’ve communicated with recommends a 190x45mm shock! Slightly more travel.
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200km done. No creaks/sounds yet :)
Yeah buddy!!!! Great news.
What cassette range and chain are those? How do you like the shifting performance? I use a similar cassette from SROAD, 10-50. Once I altered the shift gates on the second to biggest cog, it began working more reliably.
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so i stumbled across this ad on pink bike https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/3631594/#PBModalBox
looks like the 2020 evo but the changed the yolk to this by the looks of it: https://www.bikeyoke.de/en/bikeyokes/epic/
running a 190x45mm shock and claiming 110 mm of travel.
I don't know how leverage ratios are calculated but it looks very similar in design to this bike.
im guessing the math goes 110mm divided by 51mm(stock stroke shock) = leverage ratio of 2.157
so 40mm stroke gives 86mm travel and 45mm stroke gives 97mm?
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Is there a difference in stiffness between hardtail and full suspension frames when pedaling? does the full suspension have the same soft frame in the bottom bracket as the hardtail?
This full sus frame seems to have more stiffness in BB, but I cant measure it. So it could be false feelings. That hardtail epic HT feels very plush in BB, that is for sure..plushiest of any hardtails I've had before.
Of course it is MUCH EASIER to peadal on rough roads when you on a full sus bike. Full sus bike goes faster on rough terrain, no doubt. And you not only go faster, you are less fatigued at the end...
What cassette range and chain are those? How do you like the shifting performance?
The cassete is ZTTO ULT 10-50, chain is SUMC SX12 (works the same wtih YBN chains). This combo works perfect wtih XT derauller\shifter, but you have to be carefull: chain length have to be correct...too short chain makes shifting dramatically worse on lower gears.
The manager i’ve communicated with recommends a 190x45mm shock! Slightly more travel.
For my style of riding I dont need more than that I have now. I could only hit it about 60% mark on my local descends. There will be a XCM at the end of the July, it will feature some high speed technical rocky descends. Will test it there.
In SIDLuxe shock you can remove a travel spacer to make it 45mm of travel.
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do you think a 200x51 will fit?
EVO link only accepts 190mm eylet to eylet length. So it will not fit.
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its weird when you look at the linkage and how the rear shock connection to the seat stays is a straight line to the shock for both the 2020 evo and the 2021 epic.
the epic running a 52.5mm stroke getting 100mm stated travel
the evo running a 51mm stroke shock getting 110mm travel
how is this possible? I'm guessing the longer chainstay 433 vs 438 increases the leverage ratio?
could anyone verify the actual chain stay length on this frame stated length appears to be 438.
thanks for the tip about making a 190mm x 40mm lux into a 45mm thats nice since thats the shock i ordered :)
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Take a closer look. Yoke of epic and epic Evo are different!!
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its weird when you look at the linkage and how the rear shock connection to the seat stays is a straight line to the shock for both the 2020 evo and the 2021 epic.
the epic running a 52.5mm stroke getting 100mm stated travel
the evo running a 51mm stroke shock getting 110mm travel
how is this possible? I'm guessing the longer chainstay 433 vs 438 increases the leverage ratio?
could anyone verify the actual chain stay length on this frame stated length appears to be 438.
thanks for the tip about making a 190mm x 40mm lux into a 45mm thats nice since thats the shock i ordered :)
Yup, this one is almost a “hybrid” of both: the Epic’s structure, but the EVO’s standard linkage style. I’m guessing it’s because they didn’t want to add an additional set of bearings, and/or deal with the additional rear triangle flex and fatigue. It’s probably cheaper to keep it Epic rather than try to emulate the technology / carbon layup of the EVO.
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That hardtail epic HT feels very plush in BB, that is for sure..plushiest of any hardtails I've had before.
compared to carbonda fm 936 epic hardtail from sp-cycle soft as macaroni...
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compared to carbonda fm 936 epic hardtail from sp-cycle soft as macaroni...
My previous hardtail was 2015 epic copy from Workswell. And it had very stiff BB. SP-Cycle epic is very soft, so true.
no offtopic: photo evo clone form another side :)
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What offset chainring is best chainline with 36t ring?
Thanks!
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Got the frame in
1660g with all hardware except thru axle
Size large raw finish
Very dope :3
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200km done. No creaks/sounds yet :)
Can u tell me how you put the frame together? Im pretty sure I got it right but I just want to be sure.
My email is aero.not.aero@gmail
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Can u tell me how you put the frame together? Im pretty sure I got it right but I just want to be sure.
What exactly concerns you? The frame itself was already assembled (links, bolts, etc). Everything else is straightforward....
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Ah mine came in two
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200km done. No creaks/sounds yet :)
Is the sid luxe that you used for specialized only or can you use a normal 190x45?
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Is the sid luxe that you used for specialized only or can you use a normal 190x45?
He’s using a stock 190x45. You can see it in his photo.
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He’s using a stock 190x45. You can see it in his photo.
hi, don't you miss a remote control?
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hi, don't you miss a remote control?
Not at all. I've also removed remote lockout from my fork. Becasuse For me, I do not see a scenario where it is need.
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Added everything up
Should be under 20lbs with heavy maxxis aspens
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still waiting for mine to be shipped out from all star bicycle. I ordered 15 days ago, he is saying now there is a delay because they are making updates to the frame... hoping its a good update :)
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Take a closer look. Yoke of epic and epic Evo are different!!
yes they changed the yoke for the 2021 EVO but the 2020 EVO yolk is very similar to the EPIC
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still waiting for mine to be shipped out from all star bicycle. I ordered 15 days ago, he is saying now there is a delay because they are making updates to the frame... hoping its a good update :)
Well, shoot, he just shared photos of my frame with me… Could you share exactly what he said? Did he share this by whatsapp? I hope i’m not getting the last of a problematic batch. Here’s mine:
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Well, shoot, he just shared photos of my frame with me… Could you share exactly what he said? Did he share this by whatsapp? I hope i’m not getting the last of a problematic batch. Here’s mine:
Bushings on your photo are the same as mine. I had to throw them away, because i colud not fit them anywhere :)
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Bushings on your photo are the same as mine. I had to throw them away, because i colud not fit them anywhere :)
Yikes, is yours from All Star Cycling? He said they will fit lol. I added photos that i didn’t attach the first time.
I’ll have to look for your method to get correct sized ones, any additional details you could share would be greatly appreciated.
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is yours from All Star Cycling?
Mine is from Airwolf.
any additional details you could share would be greatly appreciated.
I had 22mm bushings from Aliexpress. And trimmed them down to 19mm and 14mm using angle grinder)))
I will buy original rockshox bushings for these sizes later.
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Mine is from Airwolf.
I had 22mm bushings from Aliexpress. And trimmed them down to 19mm and 14mm using angle grinder)))
I will buy original rockshox bushings for these sizes later.
I see. So the sizes to get are 19 and 14, what diameter? 8mm?
I will probably order these from Aliexpress while I wait for my frame to ship.
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what diameter? 8mm?
yes
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My frame from All Star Cycling (AWST) has arrived!
I also had them send their 0 offset seatpost, i’m going to try that for some time.
Photos attached. Paint finish is pretty good! 2 knocks, first is that the paint is too high up for my seatpost clamp. I’ll have to sand/shave that down. Second downside I see is the rear rotor is SCARY close to my rear brake mount. Like, less than a mm. Frame weight with hardware attached is 1920 grams. For the color and finish, I can’t complain! unfortunately, shock hardware is pretty irrelevant to what I need. I’ll follow up with the correct size and where to procure.
I did also order an Epic Evo chainstay protector, headtube cable port rubber grommet, and the mylar tape for the down tube from my local Specialized dealer.
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What size rotor is on there?
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What size rotor is on there?
180 SRAM centerline. 6 bolt.
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when did you order yours? I ordered mine july 9 and still no tracking number or anything. thanks! im starting to get a little worried. website is unreachable now. www.allstarbicycle.com
My frame from All Star Cycling (AWST) has arrived!
I also had them send their 0 offset seatpost, i’m going to try that for some time.
Photos attached. Paint finish is pretty good! 2 knocks, first is that the paint is too high up for my seatpost clamp. I’ll have to sand/shave that down. Second downside I see is the rear rotor is SCARY close to my rear brake mount. Like, less than a mm. Frame weight with hardware attached is 1920 grams. For the color and finish, I can’t complain! unfortunately, shock hardware is pretty irrelevant to what I need. I’ll follow up with the correct size and where to procure.
I did also order an Epic Evo chainstay protector, headtube cable port rubber grommet, and the mylar tape for the down tube from my local Specialized dealer.
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Well, shoot, he just shared photos of my frame with me… Could you share exactly what he said? Did he share this by whatsapp? I hope i’m not getting the last of a problematic batch. Here’s mine:
he wrote:
"Has been updated
Arranging production
Please be patient and wait
Thank you for understanding"
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Has anyone checked the geometry with the declared one? My head tube and seat tube angles don't match up. ETT 585mm in size M with the declared 602. Head tube angle 69° instead of 66.5.
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Has anyone checked the geometry with the declared one? My head tube and seat tube angles don't match up. ETT 585mm in size M with the declared 602. Head tube angle 69° instead of 66.5.
Hm. Have a photo? Sounds strange.
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I measured the angles, it seems, more or less correspond to the usual epic, apparently for the first time I somehow measured it wrong. But ETT does not even reach 590.
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I measured the angles, it seems, more or less correspond to the usual epic, apparently for the first time I somehow measured it wrong. But ETT does not even reach 590.
I keep in mind that the front triangle of the epic and epic Evo are the same. The molds they use our one to one, there’s virtually no reason for them to change it can you specify which seller you purchased from? When did you order and get it?
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This is how mine hand-mande adjusted bushings looks like. I have to buy\order precice machined...could not find correct sizes online yet. Linkage and frame do use 8mm bolt.
I am still struggling with this. I would love to get your help in putting together a clear set of dimensions for future buyers to learn from our toils!
My rear bushing space is 14mm, my front is 20mm. The bolts are a hair under 8mm. Now to sort out which dimension of bushing and black spacers to buy.
My Fox DPS has the following dimensions for both eyelets:
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I am still struggling with this. I would love to get your help in putting together a clear set of dimensions for future buyers to learn from our toils!
My rear bushing space is 14mm, my front is 20mm. The bolts are a hair under 8mm. Now to sort out which dimension of bushing and black spacers to buy.
My Fox DPS has the following dimensions for both eyelets:
The frame mfr can't give you the exact specs? Kinda sounds like you need an 8mmx14mm Fox bushing kit and an 8mmx20mm kit.
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Frame finally showed up. Looks good to me!
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Frame finally showed up. Looks good to me!
Awesome, join the club!! Now let’s get you some real spacers lol.
I’m think the best pick for this set are the IGUS bushing sets that can found on Aliexpress. MUQZI makes an 8mm x 22mm that need to be sanded down to fit.
Alternatively, Fox does make a 8x20mm IGUS kit.
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You can buy original Rockshox bushings from bike24:
https://www.bike24.com/p2497120.html
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You can buy original Rockshox bushings from bike24:
https://www.bike24.com/p2497120.html
Not shippable to the United States, sadly.
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https://thelostco.com/products/the-real-2021-fox-mounting-hardware?variant=32303773843537&gad=1
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https://thelostco.com/products/the-real-2021-fox-mounting-hardware?variant=32303773843537&gad=1
Yes, thanks! Another means of 8x20, but not the 8x14.
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so 40mm stroke gives 86mm travel and 45mm stroke gives 97mm?
Did you have a chance to measure it already? I have measeured mine, indirect, by measuring saddle travel. It was about 7,5-8cm wtih 40mm shock. It was kinda hard to push to full travel even with 0 psi... >:(
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Did you have a chance to measure it already? I have measeured mine, indirect, by measuring saddle travel. It was about 7,5-8cm wtih 40mm shock. It was kinda hard to push to full travel even with 0 psi... >:(
do you have a new standart xc race bike... sub 100mm travel matched a 120mm fork like a epic worldcup and supercaliber g2
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Haha, so true. Except I do have 110mm SID on front.
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Does anyone have a sid lux shock absorber? What pressure are you pumping and what is your weight?
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72kg, 110psi
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Finally built it up. 20.84lbs as shown. 250psi weight 195lbs
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Finally built it up. 20.84lbs as shown. 250psi weight 195lbs
Awesome! What’s your shock hardware situation like?
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Awesome! What’s your shock hardware situation like?
Sid lux attached pic of parts, had to shave them down with an angle grinder.
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I also collected a weight of 9990 grams a couple of weeks ago, as in the photo.Now waiting for Rock shox sid sl that will allow you to throw off another 300 grams
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I also collected a weight of 9990 grams a couple of weeks ago, as in the photo.Now waiting for Rock shox sid sl that will allow you to throw off another 300 grams
Nice! Love the color scheme, can you share some more detailed shot of the paint? From which seller?
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How efficient is the Epic Evo clone suspension compared to the Giant Anthem Maestro?
Currently running the 2021 Anthem 29 and considering a carbon FS china bike.
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Nice! Love the color scheme, can you share some more detailed shot of the paint? From which seller?
AliExpress - AWST Cycling Tactics Store
https://sl.aliexpress.ru/p?key=W5luZoW
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AliExpress - AWST Cycling Tactics Store
https://sl.aliexpress.ru/p?key=W5luZoW
Did you also get useless shock hardware? I don’t get it. He won’t listen to me telling him that his hardware isn’t working with more shocks out there.
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Yes, the equipment is not suitable. I had to order the necessary parts from the turner.
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AliExpress - AWST Cycling Tactics Store
https://sl.aliexpress.ru/p?key=W5luZoW
I see you’re using the top bearing and top cap AWST provides, how is the fit? Did you have to add any additional micro spacer-washers? I am getting my top bind binding to the frame when I try to preload everything. I think the top bearing is wrong and drops too deep, or the top cap needs to engage deeper.
Looks like the stock Epics have that flat fsa top cap.
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Yes, I had to add a spacer ring of about 2.5 millimeters under the upper bearing cap.
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Yes, I had to add a spacer ring of about 2.5 millimeters under the upper bearing cap.
A visit to a local bike shop and a buck later, I got exact what I needed, thanks! I was worried I need a more proprietary headset.
The build is finally complete :D ::) This was my worst performance when it came to barb and olive installation, I screwed up 2 times, equaling about 15mm of lost hose length on an already short hose. but the ICR plastic insert puts enough pressure to allow me to cinch some shift cable into the frame for an equal length to the hose… this is the crap I obsess over.
The final ride fits me great. Size L for a 183cm, 170 lbs man. 50mm oneup stem.
I used a 150mm OneUp dropper with an OG Wolftooth lever.
SLX 7100 brakes modded for bite point adjust
XX1 shift set
SROAD rainbow 10-50 cassette
YBN waxed 12spd chain
Generic Eagle crankset
XT 8100 pedals
780 OneUp bars with Ergon GA3 grips
Fox float DPS 45mm rear shock
SID Select+ 120 fork
Fake Roval Traverse SL wheelset (LB rims on the new 350s)
Aliexpress rainbow centerline rotors
SRAM housing for the dropper and shifter.
I think that’s it… for any future builders of this frame, feel free to hit me up with any questions, I can answer pretty much anything about this AWST frame.
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That looks great!
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A visit to a local bike shop and a buck later, I got exact what I needed, thanks! I was worried I need a more proprietary headset.
The build is finally complete :D ::) This was my worst performance when it came to barb and olive installation, I screwed up 2 times, equaling about 15mm of lost hose length on an already short hose. but the ICR plastic insert puts enough pressure to allow me to cinch some shift cable into the frame for an equal length to the hose… this is the crap I obsess over.
The final ride fits me great. Size L for a 183cm, 170 lbs man. 50mm oneup stem.
I used a 150mm OneUp dropper with an OG Wolftooth lever.
SLX 7100 brakes modded for bite point adjust
XX1 shift set
SROAD rainbow 10-50 cassette
YBN waxed 12spd chain
Generic Eagle crankset
XT 8100 pedals
780 OneUp bars with Ergon GA3 grips
Fox float DPS 45mm rear shock
SID Select+ 120 fork
Fake Roval Traverse SL wheelset (LB rims on the new 350s)
Aliexpress rainbow centerline rotors
SRAM housing for the dropper and shifter.
I think that’s it… for any future builders of this frame, feel free to hit me up with any questions, I can answer pretty much anything about this AWST frame.
what is the weight?
How do you rate the quality of manufacture of frames in general and frame details relative to carbonda?
How do you rate the stiffness of the frame relative to carbonda?
How do you the ride on this frame compared to carbonda?
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I've just removed botomless token from my SIDLuxe. Then, to maintain the same amount of sag, I had to pump air pressure from 120psi to 170psi . Without token it eats bigger bumps, I like it much more.
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Can anyone give long term feedback on the frame? What's broken, what's worn out? Something went wrong?
what's the mileage? what altitude gain? jumps, drops?
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I’ve seen a couple of these frames on a Spanish forum where bottom bracket fell out completely after 3 months. The metal part detached from the carbon.
Any other feedbacks ?
Would you go with awst or airwolf?
Thx
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I’ve seen a couple of these frames on a Spanish forum where bottom bracket fell out completely after 3 months. The metal part detached from the carbon.
Any other feedbacks ?
Would you go with awst or airwolf?
Thx
Do you have any photos or screenshots to share? Haven’t seen anything like that on mine. They are pretty similar, I would just go with whichever responds better about avoiding spraying paint on the posts for braking, and the bb shell area.
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Do you have any photos or screenshots to share? Haven’t seen anything like that on mine. They are pretty similar, I would just go with whichever responds better about avoiding spraying paint on the posts for braking, and the bb shell area.
This thread here http://www.foromtb.com/threads/chiner-doble-poquito-a-poquito.884768/page-209
Page 209
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They are pretty similar
what is the difference between them?
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I think they are from the same factory. And Spanish forum shows the old version of this frame.
Hope new version does not have this problem. At least, mine after about 2k km is going stong. Some XC races and marathons with rocky descents and uphills included ;D
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I think they are from the same factory. And Spanish forum shows the old version of this frame.
Hope new version does not have this problem. At least, mine after about 2k km is going stong. Some XC races and marathons with rocky descents and uphills included ;D
for some reason no one else writes about their long-term use with this frame :(
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It would be especially interesting to compare it with carbonda 936 in terms of reliability, rigidity, and overall workmanship
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At the moment, the mileage is 2500+ km and nothing has fallen off yet.
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Finally built it up. 20.84lbs as shown. 250psi weight 195lbs
that cassette is crazy!
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can anyone measure the length of the chainstay?
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Hello
Chainstay on size L seems to be the given 438 mm. I measured with a tape measure.
Someone else asked about other meausurements but has deleted the message. Distance between rear axle and main pivot point is 435 mm and distance between rear axle and seatstay pivot is 460 mm.
I have had the frame for a month now. Longest ride has been 118 km.
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Does anyone have a photo of the frame from the inside? How poorly is the carbon laid inside the frame?))
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I still didn’t like the original color of the frames and decided to remove the paint from it.
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I still didn’t like the original color of the frames and decided to remove the paint from it.
Dope build, my build has a lot of similar parts albeit 500g lighter :p (and sexier)
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I still didn’t like the original color of the frames and decided to remove the paint from it.
looks like you changed some of the bolts on the frame? What were the ones you used?
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Dope build, my build has a lot of similar parts albeit 500g lighter :p (and sexier)
Which store did you order the frame from? beautiful matte varnish
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Which store did you order the frame from? beautiful matte varnish
I got it from airwolf, asked for no paint. Finish us rough close up (scratches!) But it still looks nice imo and has no finish so it's uber light
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I got it from airwolf, asked for no paint. Finish us rough close up (scratches!) But it still looks nice imo and has no finish so it's uber light
in the photo is RAW carbon fiber without varnish?
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looks like you changed some of the bolts on the frame? What were the ones you used?
Titanium screws from AliExpress and stainless steel bushings ordered from a familiar turner.
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I got it from airwolf, asked for no paint. Finish us rough close up (scratches!) But it still looks nice imo and has no finish so it's uber light
I coated the frame with automotive wax for UV protection and added shine.
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in the photo is RAW carbon fiber without varnish?
yeah completely raw nothing on it
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I coated the frame with automotive wax for UV protection and added shine.
do you think it added any weight? which one did you use?
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Titanium screws from AliExpress and stainless steel bushings ordered from a familiar turner.
can you share the links?
anything else you did to shed weight?
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:o
do you think it added any weight? which one did you use?
No, it didn’t add weight, but it did add depth of color. I used fusso soft99 wax.
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can you share the links?
anything else you did to shed weight?
Смотри, что есть на AliExpress! Титановые болты «Wanyifa» M6 x 12 15 20 мм 8x25 мм за US $2.81 - уже со скидкой -36%
https://sl.aliexpress.ru/p?key=dG9IUKf
I ordered a lower hinge axle made from aluminum alloy B95 from a turner; this should help lose about 35-40 grams.
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This is the weight without the axle of the bottle cage bolts and without the shock absorber fittings and the shock absorber itself. With shock absorber, weight is 1920 grams
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This is the weight without the axle of the bottle cage bolts and without the shock absorber fittings and the shock absorber itself. With shock absorber, weight is 1920 grams
How much does it weigh when assembled with all the parts?
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How much does it weigh when assembled with all the parts?
the weight of the frame assembled with shock absorber is 1920 grams.Complete bicycle 9465 grams
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the weight of the frame assembled with shock absorber is 1920 grams.Complete bicycle 9465 grams
my frame size LG, with sram UDH, rockshox sid lux ultimate, and some ti stuff weighed in at 1880g and the whole bike should be under 9000g
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What is the maximum seat post insertion depth for size L?
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What is the maximum seat post insertion depth for size L?
doesnt really matter, just cut your post down if you need
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doesnt really matter, just cut your post down if you need
I have a 175mm Fox transfer, if the insertion depth is less than 250mm then I will have to sell the dropper and buy a shorter one. but I really don’t want to change it to a smaller one. Therefore it is of great importance
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I have a 175mm Fox transfer, if the insertion depth is less than 250mm then I will have to sell the dropper and buy a shorter one. but I really don’t want to change it to a smaller one. Therefore it is of great importance
sell the dropper and get a 100mm transfer sl PE
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any tips on suspension setup? im getting a lot of bob. 130psi rear shock (sidluxe ult) at 145lbs
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I am deciding between these two frames for an Epic Evo-like bike build:
100mm travel:
https://airwolfcarbonbike.com/product/yfm059-airwolf-29er-boost-carbon-mtb-frame-14812mm-full-suspension-frames-xc-rear-travel-100mm-mountain-bicycle-frame-bike-mtb-frame/
110mm travel:
https://www.seraphbikes.com/29er-boost-suspension-xc-bike-frame-fm061-full-carbon-fiber-t1000-work-for-16538mm-shock-blue-white-design-p5121103.html
I don't know much about this. I have built one Chinese frame bike before, Seraph/Tantan FM078 and it's over two years old now. I'm going in for another round. I'm looking for something as much like an Epic Evo as possible on my budget. The FM078 has been solid so I'm biased towards the Seraph frame with its additional 10mm of travel. The Airwolf frame looks to be a solid choice as well, especially since I can re-use my 1.25/1.5" headtube fork whereas the Seraph frame uses a straight 1.5" headtube, entailing a new fork expense.
Thanks for any advice/suggestions.
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I am deciding between these two frames for an Epic Evo-like bike build:
The Airwolf frame looks to be a solid choice as well, especially since I can re-use my 1.25/1.5" headtube fork whereas the Seraph frame uses a straight 1.5" headtube, entailing a new fork expense.
Thanks for any advice/suggestions.
You just need a proper headset to use a tapered fork on the seraph, no need to buy a new one.
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sell the dropper and get a 100mm transfer sl PE
Instead of unnecessary advice, it’s better to tell me what the insertion depth of the seatpost is in size L
a dropper smaller than 150mm is not a dropper
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Hi
I have a 150 mm OneUp V2 on mine. The total length of 150 V2 is 42 cm and effective length without actuator is 40,5 cm. When I push the post all the way down I have 24 cm outside of frame, so it goes 16,5 cm in before stop (18 cm with actuator). My insertion length seems to be 13,5 cm with 74,5 cm distance between center of bottom bracket and seat rails.
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I'll explain why I'm asking. After all, you can simply open the manual for the epic and see that the official insertion depth for size L is 220mm. But carbonda fm936 says 230mm for size L, but in fact I installed a 175mm fox transfer at a depth of 260mm. Therefore, I’m not sure that the epic has 220mm and no more.
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It was kind of surprising that the insert length on mine is only 165 mm. The upper part of seat tube before bend could take about 220 mm. There can be differences between frames. I wanted to use a 400 mm rigid carbon Elitaone and 150 mm OneUp V2 and both fit, so I am happy.
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can I ask for one more measurement?
I'm interested in the distance from the shock absorber mounth to the frame marked in the image
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I tried to take a look at the right level: the distance is 30 mm.
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I tried to take a look at the right level: the distance is 30 mm.
Thanks a lot!
apparently the fox i-line from the merida will not go in with the blocking upwards((, it has 30mm from the center of the fastening to the edge of the blocking clamp
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Airwolf says their frame was made in China. AWST/OBM say that their frame was made in Taiwan... I wonder if there is a difference between them?
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For this (Airwolf) frame can we use the Rockshox Deluxe Select+ 190x40mm rear shock with the EVO link?
I have seen some 190mm rear shocks available with 42.5 or 45mm stroke, will those not work or can you wiggle on that somehow?
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For this (Airwolf) frame can we use the Rockshox Deluxe Select+ 190x40mm rear shock with the EVO link?
I have seen some 190mm rear shocks available with 42.5 or 45mm stroke, will those not work or can you wiggle on that somehow?
They all will work fine. I have both 190x40 SIDLuxe and 190x45 DNM (for winter use).
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It was kind of surprising that the insert length on mine is only 165 mm.
airwolf in Ali they said - 155mm. Chinese copy is not 1 in 1 copy. Sadness of course...
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20% discount of airwolf frame if you have the Ali points
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mNbG1my
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Extremely close to pulling the trigger on that one, legit or scam?
https://a.aliexpress.com/_msyOwhm
It seems from some info in the description that it’s the Airwolf frame.
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Photos of full suspension, text says hardtail. Extremely shady, would steer clear.
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Yes I noticed that but I think it’s simply shock or no shock. I sent a WhatsApp to a number they provided when I ask questions on Ali, I’ll proceed with caution
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Yes I noticed that but I think it’s simply shock or no shock. I sent a WhatsApp to a number they provided when I ask questions on Ali, I’ll proceed with caution
it's depends... if you want to spend less in the begin, buy with simply shock...
but in fact, a good shock makes great difference... I use a fox dps ... the bike has a great response, climbing so well without lockout
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Yes I wasn’t gonna buy with shock. But there is a few red flag on that listing, I’ll have to proceed cautiously, we’ll see the answers to questions tomorrow
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Yes I noticed that but I think it’s simply shock or no shock. I sent a WhatsApp to a number they provided when I ask questions on Ali, I’ll proceed with caution
Communication outside of Ali is a big red flag... Ali does prohibit communication outside their chat. You will have no leg to stand on when something goes wrong since Ali will reject all responsibility.
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Well, it was really the hardtail a low price…
That leaves the Twitter has a low cost option.with discount today it’s 525$ shipped.
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Well, it was really the hardtail a low price…
That leaves the Twitter has a low cost option.with discount today it’s 525$ shipped.
link?
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https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804111124007.html
on the app I have discount with coin and 20$ coupon. I havent checked the geometry precisely though. 1st thing I noticed, the BB is a T47, that's not really standard for MTB application, no?
Not really an evo I think
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S9237f69777274ae8be8c43c18a377e25y.jpg)
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yes, it's a completely different frame)
if you need the minimum price, you should try to communicate with sellers on Alibaba, not Aliexpress
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Hello together,
I´m thinking of ordering a Airwolf 059 but I´m a bit worried about the riding performance.
Will the bike be capable, stiff and strong enough?
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yes, it's a completely different frame)
if you need the minimum price, you should try to communicate with sellers on Alibaba, not Aliexpress
I would talk about maximum value rather than minimum price ;) I haven’t looked at alibaba in 15y, I’ll give it a go, thanks
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I would talk abojt maximum value rather than minimum price ;) I haven’t looked at alibaba in 15y, I’ll give it a go, thanks
I was offered $565, but as I understand it, this is without delivery
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my frame size LG, with sram UDH, rockshox sid lux ultimate, and some ti stuff weighed in at 1880g and the whole bike should be under 9000g
Wow great weight of your frame with shock.
Do you finish the build?
Is the frame from Airwolf?
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Wow great weight of your frame with shock.
Do you finish the build?
Is the frame from Airwolf?
frame is from airwolf, builld finished with pedals and cages 8.98kg
I might send a picture later.
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This is the weight without the axle of the bottle cage bolts and without the shock absorber fittings and the shock absorber itself. With shock absorber, weight is 1920 grams
maybe I missed it. How much lighter is the frame after removing the paint?
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frame is from airwolf, builld finished with pedals and cages 8.98kg
I might send a picture later.
Great
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maybe I missed it. How much lighter is the frame after removing the paint?
For 120 grams.
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For 120 grams.
the total weight of the frame without painting is about 1700-1750 g?
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frame is from airwolf, builld finished with pedals and cages 8.98kg
I might send a picture later.
Please send a few pictures and may be a part list if you want ;D ;)
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when did you order yours? I ordered mine july 9 and still no tracking number or anything. thanks! im starting to get a little worried. website is unreachable now. www.allstarbicycle.com
Your frame looks super fine...I want one. But their site is still down so I guess I'm out of luck!
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Out of curiosity, but has anyone ever tried to use an imperial 7.5" x 2.0" shock in one of these epic frames?
In theory this shock would fit. Since converted to metric the shock would have an eye to eye of 190.5mm with a travel of 50.8mm. This would theoretically result in a frame travel of around 96mm according to leverage ratio calculated by "ilyamksimov" back in post 76.
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Not sure what is the trick but 540$ shipped to us with shock (with 100$ coupon):
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrNa46G
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>> Square_Cookies
Imperial shock fits. :)
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What size dropper post is good for this frame, assuming a rider height of 5'11" and frame size L? Is 150mm reasonable? I'm considering a PNW Loam vs OneUp V2 in case that matters.
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Hi
Those droppers were on my list too. I am 6.0 or 183 cm and posted some frame measurements here earlier. I use a 150 mm OneUp V2 and it is inserted 13 cm. My L-size frame allows 16,5 cm insertion, so there is not a lot of extra room available but it is enough. My saddle height from bottom bracket to seat rails is about 75 cm.
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maybe someone is ready to write a new long-term review?
suspicious silence about the operating experience of this frame
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I am considering Shimano XT FC-M8100-1 crankset which has Q-factor: 172mm and Chainline: 52mm. Will this work OK for the Airwolf frame?
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Frame finally showed up. Looks good to me!
Where did you order?
Painting is so good.
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I am considering Shimano XT FC-M8100-1 crankset which has Q-factor: 172mm and Chainline: 52mm. Will this work OK for the Airwolf frame?
yes.
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https://t.ly/veRMa
found on yt
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What shock mounting hardware (bushings) are used for mounting a RockShox 190x45 Deluxe Select+?
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I am searching for S size and no website (allstar or airwolf) available in S size. Is there other dealer who can provide S size?
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I still didn’t like the original color of the frames and decided to remove the paint from it.
Looks great. I ask Airwolf for a frame without painting. Will see if possible.
To mount a standard rear shock (Rock Shox SidLuxe RLR 190x40) I have to choose EV Shock Link?
May be somebody have more pictures of the builds it would be great :)
It´s possible to send direct PM to me 8)
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I will build one of these soon. The frame is on order from Airwolf. I will use the parts listed below.
Fox 130mm Performance Elite FIT4 fork
RockShox Select+ 190x45 rear shock
OneUp V2 dropper post 150mm
Full XT groupset (cranks, derailleur, shifter, chain, bottom bracket, cassette, brakes, pedals)
Airwolf carbon wheels w/DT240 36T
The budget has come to less than $3000, which is not cheap but seems like peanuts for a full-carbon XT build, especially if this frame really is close to an Epic Evo. Buying (like new) used parts from friends and buying from eBay/Aliexpress helped, especially around Black Friday.
If anyone has comments from your experiences doing this then please advise. I have only done this once before (Tantan FM078), sort of seat-of-the-pants with limited tools, etc. Last time I was really challenged with mounting the rear shock (bushings were hard to find) and routing the internal hoses/cables.
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Voting for which to choose, AWST or Airwolf?
Which one is better to buy?
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Hi
This frame was the second I have built up. I made the following notices:
Rear axle was fine, put grease there (green like Shimano, but NLGI 1).
I disassembled all the pivot hardware and put grease.
The shock bushings that came with the frame were useless, because the part which goes inside the eyelet is too small. I bought new bushings. If you have no hurry you can measure the frame first.
The shock bolt hole in the rocker link may be a little too big for the bolt so keep eye on it. It is metal against metal. A thin plastic coating would help I think.
Shock mounting on the main frame is better. The paint and carbon are softer materials than the bushings so people may put something between them so the bushings won´t damage the frame. I used car wrap and grease.
The headset was easy to assemble (grease) but did not work first. The bars wouldn´t turn. The culprit was the the upper cover or plate which touched the frame (my first language is not English). I put a 2,5 millimeter thick carbon headset spacer between the upper bearing and the plate and made the headset work like a charm.
The BSA bottom bracket was easy but before that you have to route the cables through the frame.
Gear cable is the easiest.
Dropper and brake cable are harder. I had to disassemble the main pivot to route the brake cable. The hardest part was to get the last, third, cable out though the same hole in the main frame. Do this before the headset.
The dropper post was easy to assemble (used carbon paste there).
Rear derailleur and brakes were easy to do.
The bars can usually hit the main frame on Evos so check it out before crashing (saw it on LoveMTB channel). I made small frame protectors using 2,5 centimeter wide Gorilla tape where the bars made contact with the frame.
Buy a downtube protector or make one. Certain tires in certain conditions bomb this area.
During the first rides I noticed two things. The frame made big clanks on the downhills and the mud liked to use the internal brake cable port and make friends with the bottom bracket. No good..
The clanking came from the chain hitting chainstay using smallest sprockets. I had a protector there but it was too thin, so I put a dense foam like stuff above the chainstay (about 1 cm thick) and wrapped it with electrical tape.
I saw a selfmade mud protector in Carbonda-forums and made one using duct tape. It won´t last a season but is easy to replace and works. I try to put a picture of it soon.
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Picture of the mud protector:
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maybe someone is ready to write a new long-term review?
suspicious silence about the operating experience of this frame
We’re too busy riding em!!! Will catch up on this thread soon and share some my experience, been great so far.
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My frame arrived without a hole for an internal dropper cable. Has anyone else had this happen, and/or how to handle this if I want an internal cable -- break out a drill?
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My frame arrived without a hole for an internal dropper cable. Has anyone else had this happen, and/or how to handle this if I want an internal cable -- break out a drill?
Lol! How is that possible? They surely didn’t give you a new mold cast with no port available. Feed the cable from seat tube over the bb shell, and out the triple hose port on the left.
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Yes, you're right. According to the product page, they all go into the same hole. I should have checked that before posting here. Seems like they'll be too bunched up, but I guess it works fine. Let's see how it goes!
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The adventure has begun.
I contacted Airwolf asking which mounting kit I should order for the shock I'll use (Rockshox Select+), and they assured me all the proper parts were included. But it turns out they aren't fitting so I went to a shop to find an appropriate kit.
While I was there they pointed out a few quality control issues with my frame that have me a bit concerned, and I wonder what others might think.
- The rear dropout holes aren't perfectly round, looks like someone went to town with a router a little too outside the line.
- The headtube where the headset cups go in is a bit off, not as exactly even as it probably should be. Looks like a sketchy layup.
- The bottom bracket threads are rough and should probably be finished again before inserting the bottom bracket.
I will follow up with photos later if there's any interest, but for now, I wonder how much further I should go with this build. My mechanic who spotted all this is solid and not just trying to steer me to another frame. I'm not completely against keeping it and moving ahead if I can get over these issues on my own, but it's discouraging after waiting so long and finally having the frame in my hands. Otherwise, the frame seems perfectly legit and if these issues weren't present I'd feel confident bombing down all my normal hills on it (I'm old and skinny, don't go hard, I'll never break a typical XC frame).
I'm pretty suspect at this point.
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A second opinion from another bike shop mechanic has me less worried about the frame's quality. I'm keeping it and forging ahead.
I have the cables internally routed now which was a bitch. It required taking the linkage bolt out at the bottom for more clearance. I added a drop of Loctite to the bolt when I put it back on but there are no torque-setting indicators so I just went really tight by hand. If anyone knows the right torque for this bolt then please advise. How would someone work that out, or does it matter too much as long as it's reasonably tight?
Airwolf advised me that the shock mounting hardware they'd send would work for my shock, but it doesn't -- you need a 8x20 and 8x14 kits from Rockshox. I anticipated this, which is why I asked so I could get ahead of it, but to no avail. Had I known this, or at least the correct dimensions, I could have saved myself some waiting around by pre-ordering the parts. On that note here's something that may save someone else some time -- if you're using a Rockshox Select+ 190x4*, which is a typical shock to pair with this frame, then you'll need these two Rockshox mounting hardware kits:
8x14 part# 11.4118.091.800
8x20 part# 11.4118.091.806
Where I live most shops don't stock any mounting kits so everyone has to order, and since they all use the same distributor it's mostly a waiting game if one is on backorder, as is the 8x14 kit now. Luckily I found one on eBay, fingers crossed it'll be here next week.
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Has anyone put any rubber foam around the cables to prevent rattle? I've had to do that on my previous bike and it was possible to MacGuiver it with some Nerf gun bullets, but the holes are so tight on this frame, and in such precarious spots, that it seems using that approach might be impossible. Is it something to worry about?
Maybe by accessing the cables via the headtube and/or bottom bracket I can just stuff it with something that'll keep everything from banging around? Or is that just asking for more headaches later? All it'd take is just a little bit of balled-up newspaper etc.
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I would do it right now, you have some downtime waiting for parts, might as well spend it cursing it out loudly in the cold garage! :D
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Has anyone put any rubber foam around the cables to prevent rattle? I've had to do that on my previous bike and it was possible to MacGuiver it with some Nerf gun bullets, but the holes are so tight on this frame, and in such precarious spots, that it seems using that approach might be impossible. Is it something to worry about?
Maybe by accessing the cables via the headtube and/or bottom bracket I can just stuff it with something that'll keep everything from banging around? Or is that just asking for more headaches later? All it'd take is just a little bit of balled-up newspaper etc.
I had no rattling without the rubber foam bc its lighter without it but I dont doubt that you can do it fairly easily.
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Hey
I put CAPGO OL silencing foam on the cables. Figured out it was easiest to do when the cables enter the bottom bracket area, put the CAPGO on and then slide towards the upper hole in the frame. Two cables go nice, the third is challenging.
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My cables doesn't rattle at all without any foam.
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I cut my chain too short, then when a friend was helping me install the derailleur we couldn't get the B-screw adjustment right, and instead of realizing that the chain was too short causing the problem we assumed it was still too long and cut out another couple of links. Yes, we're amateurs.
How can I avoid doing that again? I followed a Park Tool video on how to size the chain, but maybe this frame needs a little different approach to find the right chain length. I have the large size of this frame and I'm using a 30T chainring with a 10-51 cassette (Shimano XT 12-speed drivetrain) -- how many links do I need to remove from a fresh 126-link chain?
Another chain-related question -- when the chain is on the largest cog the chain line looks to be at its limit, too far really. I might need to use a spacer between my hub and my cassette to bring it out. Did anyone else need to do this to get a reasonably straight chain line toward the larger cogs (inner cogs) of the cassette? I'm using a new DT Swiss 240S hub with Shimano XT cassette.
BTW the derailleur hanger shipped with my frame was wonky and needed to be bent quite a bit. So if you're like me and can't get your derailleur to work as expected then try checking that. Am I likely to get a better result right out of the box with an official SRAM UDH (vs the Airwolf part), or is this maybe because the frame is not square at the dropout and I'll need to do this again if I ever get a new derailleur hanger?
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I cut my chain too short, then when a friend was helping me install the derailleur we couldn't get the B-screw adjustment right, and instead of realizing that the chain was too short causing the problem we assumed it was still too long and cut out another couple of links. Yes, we're amateurs.
How can I avoid doing that again? I followed a Park Tool video on how to size the chain, but maybe this frame needs a little different approach to find the right chain length. I have the large size of this frame and I'm using a 30T chainring with a 10-51 cassette (Shimano XT 12-speed drivetrain) -- how many links do I need to remove from a fresh 126-link chain?
Another chain-related question -- when the chain is on the largest cog the chain line looks to be at its limit, too far really. I might need to use a spacer between my hub and my cassette to bring it out. Did anyone else need to do this to get a reasonably straight chain line toward the larger cogs (inner cogs) of the cassette? I'm using a new DT Swiss 240S hub with Shimano XT cassette.
BTW the derailleur hanger shipped with my frame was wonky and needed to be bent quite a bit. So if you're like me and can't get your derailleur to work as expected then try checking that. Am I likely to get a better result right out of the box with an official SRAM UDH (vs the Airwolf part), or is this maybe because the frame is not square at the dropout and I'll need to do this again if I ever get a new derailleur hanger?
the chain lenght can be solved with another powerlink in the chain... not the best look, but works
about the chainline and udh, i had solved, in my case, i use a xd freehub, using a xdr freehub.. the xdr with spacer play the cassete must near to udh, and corrected the chainline ... in microspline I don't know if put a spacer in freehub is will fit perfecly.... the chain stays 1.5mm from udh
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Here is the finished build, photo from my first ride.
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What real BB drop on a 100mm fork? and real angle fork?
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It looks like all of the airwolf frames have an "evo link". I haven't been able to figure out quite what that means. I'm also seeing some reports of 190x40mm shocks and 190x45. What is the consensus there?
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It looks like all of the airwolf frames have an "evo link". I haven't been able to figure out quite what that means. I'm also seeing some reports of 190x40mm shocks and 190x45. What is the consensus there?
If you follow the questions, conversations, and photos from the first couple of pages here, everything will be clear.
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Hi, any news? I'm going to buy one on awst.
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Frame finally showed up. Looks good to me!
Which seller did you purchase from that you got all of the decals? or was that done after?
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Can anyone provide a source for replacement hardware for the frame pivot points? I've been riding my build of this frame for a couple of weeks now and I can't find where it's squawking, the noise is driving me nuts. I've read that you might need to check and/or replace the hardware on these Chinese frames for safety so that's what I intend to do and hopefully, it'll eliminate the creaking sounds. The shock mounting bolts already show signs of rust so I should probably replace those as well for peace of mind. Also, how can I determine the torque settings to use? I'm not confident about any info I might get from Airwolf, but I guess that's part of this adventure.
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I know for my built for torque specs I used a lot the repair manual from original frame design company (Scott), maybe the same exist for your frame. A quick search I found this:
https://support.specialized.com/epic/en/service-maintenance/manuals-technical-information
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It looks like all of the airwolf frames have an "evo link". I haven't been able to figure out quite what that means. I'm also seeing some reports of 190x40mm shocks and 190x45. What is the consensus there?
If you have 190x40mm Sidluxe, then you can simply change its travel to 45mm. It can be done by just removing a travel spacer. I've done that(volume token is also removed), and it rides better for me.
I think, that for leverage below 2 (this frame) biger aircan volume is better. Otherwise it's almost impossible to get full travel without excessive amunt of sag.
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Can anyone provide a source for replacement hardware for the frame pivot points?
Bearings:
688 2RSV MAX Bearing 8*16*5 mm 4Pcs
6901 2RSV MAX Bearing 12*24*6 mm 2Pcs
For bolts, you can buy any 8mm bolts and trim them to required size.
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Hi All, been following this thread for a while- saw this on Aliexpress- Looks like maybe they have actual evo linkage now?
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Hi All, been following this thread for a while- saw this on Aliexpress- Looks like maybe they have actual evo linkage now?
Nah. That's an actual picture of an S-Works epic evo. They just used the picture to show the color.
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For those of you who have replaced the bearings in this frame, how did you get them out? My friend who has a bearing extractor tried to help me do that yesterday and we gave up after going at it hard on the lower pivot linkage. I didn't want to stress the carbon further (it's a tool that uses percussive force to pop it out) and figured I should just leave well enough alone and it's good enough for a recreational rider like me even though the bearings feel rough already after riding it for only a month.
Because of a creaking noise that wouldn't go away after re-doing the bottom bracket and seat post (One Up service) we also took apart the upper linkage that attaches to the shock. We only found bushings there whereas I was expecting to find bearings. Was I mistaken about there being bearings in there? Previous advice from this thread indicated that there would be bearings. There was one juncture of the upper linkage we didn't disassemble so maybe that's where the actual bearings mentioned are located.
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Actually, bearing come out very easy. With some hand-made tools. Bolt-nuts-and-washers.
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Anyone order one of these frames from Airwolf or AWST recently? I placed with Airwolf via Ebay back on march 10th with a "late" delivery by April 15. it was essentially radio silence with them during that time (I swear I wasn't being too annoying about it lol). to hedge my bets, I ordered the same from AWST via Aliexpress. A bit more communicative, but both companies are currently late. Through Aliexpress I extended the delivery (after asking AWST if they need more time, which they said "yes please!"). At this point I'm debating if I just kill both of these orders and go buy a specialized epic evo.
Any reason why both of these companies are this way? Just too busy? do they actually sell frames anymore? I gave Airwolf 2 months and still don't have a tracking number (they said "its all packed up ready to go, but we don't have a tracking number yet" after I opened a complaint with Ebay and forced their hand essentially). Am I truly being impatient or justified in my "WTF"?
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I ordered it to awst on AliExpress on March 18 and I'm still waiting, this week they told me that they will try to send it on May 10, but I don't think that will be the case.
They didn't have frames in stock and they had to ask the factory, because they offered me a matte black color because they had stock, but I told them no.
Sorry for my English, I write it with the translator...
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I just ordered a frame from Airwolf via ebay on May 7th. Say it will arrive by June 18th. So far no indication from seller of order status. Hopefully it goes smoothly and it is delivered by then.
Anyway, I saw on the frame specs that the fork offset for this frame is 44mm, but the fork that I have is 51mm offset. How much do you think this will affect the handling?
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I just ordered a frame from Airwolf via ebay on May 7th. Say it will arrive by June 18th. So far no indication from seller of order status. Hopefully it goes smoothly and it is delivered by then.
Anyway, I saw on the frame specs that the fork offset for this frame is 44mm, but the fork that I have is 51mm offset. How much do you think this will affect the handling?
Yeah, it was pretty much radio silence from Airwolf when I ordered on ebay. I ended up cancelling that order as they never provided a tracking (even though they said "its ready to ship" for over a week. It was ordered on march 10th, so hopefully you make out better. My order with AWST via Ali says "shipped" but the tracking number they provided has no status after a couple days- I suspect they got the tracking number but haven't actually shipped it yet.