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Re: Groupset News L-TWOO eRX hydraulic levers




Wheel Top EDS TX electronic groupset



S-Ride ST-R600 drop levers


January 05, 2023, 12:38:02 PM
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Re: Groupset News L-TWOO eRX electronic groupset

January 07, 2023, 08:13:10 AM
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Re: Groupset News Wheel Top EDS TX prototype & potential hydraulic caliper




Wheel Top EDS TX Rim lever, FD & RD weights (incl. batteries)




future Sensah mechanical RD prototype



L-TWOO eRX FD & RD weights


February 22, 2023, 12:40:47 PM
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Re: LTWOO RX hydro sets Update after tearing the RD apart and doing some milling

The BIG source of weight penalty in these 11S R9 RDs is the derailleur hanger screw, or "B-axle". It looks like a functional knockoff/copy of the shimano ultegra-6700-series B-axle. Anyways as I mentioned earlier, it's solid steel. Stock weight is 20 grams for the screw alone. Im sure the aluminum screw specced on the RX is half the weight.

I was able to drill out out about 5 grams alone from the B-axle by driving an m4.5 drillbit down the centerline.

I also dremeled/filed out that chunky hanger knuckle and put an m8 hole in the faceplate of the parallelogram. It only yielded about 5 grams. While it's satisfying to see it all milled out, I gotta say it was not worth the time, effort, or worry involved in doing something that extreme.

All in all I got the RD weight down from 229 to 220g, for $0.

If you really want to effectively tune these R9 derailleurs to match the RX, I'd say replacing the b-axle with with an aluminum shimano replacement, and cable screw with alu or titanium would get you 10 grams. I think that's going to run you about $20-30USD

At that point, I think you might as well go to the Shimano 11-speed ultegra r8000 rear derailleur, which has been confirmed as compatible with LTWOO shifters in the component news thread, weighs a nice ~198g and can be found for ~$90USD.

I've done the numbers on weight and cost of what I call "super-weenie R9": LTWOO R9 hydro brifters and FD, Ultegra RD, and ONIRII XR calipers. Estimated weight coming in at 1125 grams and $553 (after shipping) if you buy the R9 gruppo from the LTWOO official store and add on an ultegra RD and XR calipers. This is in fact lighter than Ultegra R8020's quoted weight of 1132 grams for the same parts. LTWOO brifters are about the same weight as ultegra, so all of that weight savings is coming from the XR calipers.

For comparison, an ultegra disc kit with chain, crank, brifters, derailleurs, and cassette are about $800-1000USD online. To match that for "Super-weenie R9", throw in a $100 S-ROAD cassette, $178 racework crankset, $55 YBN chain and you're at $886. So "super-weenie R9" is not exactly saving you money. It *does* make sense if you have specific needs. For example I want a crank-based power meter with 167.5mm arms, and all of these cheap ultegra groupsets come with non-meter cranks and 172.6mm arms. So if you factor the cost of having to shelve and replace the crank, then starting with a crankless LTWOO kit starts to make more sense. Similarly, the Ultegra cassette is about 30-40g heavier than an S-ROAD cassette.


Update: just wanted to make a note of something I found disappointing about the R9s: the plastic shift levers are rivted on. There is no replacing them. If you have a bad hard shift and break them, you have to replace the whole lever. Talk about garbage design.

February 28, 2023, 09:54:00 AM
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Re: Groupset News expect L-TWOO eRX to be launched fairly soon

Projected pricing is 4500RMB for the levers, callipers and derailleurs. Wheel Top EDS TX should cost considerably less, quoted to start at the high 2xxx range for Rim brake and low 3xxx range for Disc brake in standard weight guises. Wheel Top is also expected to offer higher end 'ultra light' versions of their groupset to compete with eRX.

pre-production pics





March 13, 2023, 01:26:31 AM
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Re: Groupset News The official press conference wrapped up yesterday and media first impressions are trickling in

Weights
Left & right levers
L-TWOO quoted weight: 225g (each)
Biketo measured weight: 445.1g
雪大爷单车 measured weight: 223.1g (left), 222g (right)

FD
L-TWOO quoted weight: 150g
Biketo measured weight: 139.3g
雪大爷单车 measured weight: 139.1g

RD
L-TWOO quoted weight: 270g
Biketo measured weight: 275.6g
雪大爷单车 measured weight: 275.7g

Seatpost battery & cables
L-TWOO quoted weight: 62g (battery only)
Biketo measured weight: 85.1g
雪大爷单车 measured weight: 85.2g


Pricing
Big surprise is that there is a 3500RMB eR9 Alloy to sit below the 4500RMB eRX Carbon. Disregard their mechanical naming convention because both are 12s.


It's unclear how much heavier eR9 will be.

Testimonials
I'll briefly summarise this vlog from a LBS proprietor who was invited to the launch:
  • He mentions that the derailleurs are not the only determinant of shifting quality. The supplied chainring, chain and cassette on the Java test bikes are not the best so it's hard to make an apples to apples comparison with the established brands
  • FD sucks. He says that it feels like 'last gen SRAM' (not sure if he's referring to RED eTap A1 11s or Force AXS D1 here) where shifting under load especially uphill is difficult
  • RD is fine and shifts like 'last gen Shimano' (R8070?) but has chain slap issues (not enough tension?)
  • Lever buttons feel like a mouse click and aren't nearly tactile enough. Very mushy like SRAM pre-Rival/Force AXS D2.
  • Due to how the inner shift button is half embedded into the leading edge of the brake lever, riding over bumps and uneven surfaces results in frequent accidental shifts
  • You can see Joe Whittingham from China Cycling at 2:55 so you can look forward to his first impressions video
  • He shifts up and down the entire cassette range at 3:45 and 4:05
  • He says that the braking feels improved from the mechanical RX hydraulic he tried before

Function
I was mistaken by the shifting logic. As opposed to being SRAM style with a single button on either side, it's actually Shimano style with 2 buttons on each lever but laid out the other way around. Shifting layouts and derailleur adjustments are configurable in-app.
Left lever: Inner textured button shifts to big ring, outer smooth button shifts to small ring
Right lever: Inner textured button shifts to a smaller cog, outer smooth button shifts to a larger cog


Direct mount hanger is a option for the rd. I can't figure out where a power cable goes for either derailleur. How do you charge the battery(s) what kind of battery.
We actually don't know if it's DM hanger capable until someone tries installing it. The callipers for example appeared to be PM at first but they're actually their own proprietary thing with different dimensions to work around patents.

The levers are semi-wireless and powered by CR2032 batteries while the FD and RD are powered by an 800mAh seatpost battery (for reference, BT-DN300 is 500mAh, EPS V3 is 720mAh and K-Force WE is 1100mAh). Charging is handled by a magnetic connector at the backside of the RD facing NDS.


Does that mean this hanger will be used for both gravel & road with a fairly big cassette clearance?
RD max capacity is still rated at 32T as opposed to the industry standard 34T. I'm sure that while an 11-34T cassette could fit, a 36T like CS-HG710-12 certainly wouldn't.

Personal thoughts
Even though they are the best 'put together' of the 3 upstart groupset manufacturers, it is still painfully obvious that this is a small operation prone to amateur mistakes. For example, L-TWOO's press conference presentation deck and website marketing material for this launch was riddled with typos and inaccuracies. They incorrectly spelled the word for brifter, the battery capacity was wrongly labelled at 850mAh and the eR9 was originally listed as 11s leading some to believe that 12s function would be software locked for eRX only.

And if you thought that getting your hands on a groupset abroad is difficult, local distribution isn't much better. For instance, they decided to setup a new WeChat account to handle all eRX direct pre-sales (unbelievably inane imo) which would quickly be disabled for overactivity because they used a personal account as opposed to an enterprise account. Lastly, they decided to respond to people who felt that the 4500RMB pricetag was too steep by joking that it was a more of a 'you' problem (1:55) [EDIT: now cut from the video...I guess they aren't that tone deaf] so don't expect price cuts any time soon. However, Chinese Shimano resellers have already responded by slashing the price of R7170 'small kits' so we may well see a price war unfold in the future.

Misc
L-TWOO has also started supplying Hydraulic R7 Alloy 10s to OEMs


March 16, 2023, 10:49:40 AM
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Re: Groupset News


Here the presentation video of the L-twoo elec

Call me crazy, but I think they'd have better spent their cringe inducing CGI animé short budget on further testing and prototyping, so the first iterations work better ...

March 17, 2023, 10:20:52 AM
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Re: Velobuild VB-R-168 Frame
Build is finally done! Pretty happy with the Spechinalized S-Wok  :D

It’s a tribute to PatLino. I know you can’t get enough of my decals!  ;D

It would be pretty hilarious if you actually put “S-Wok” on it.

March 24, 2023, 02:08:21 AM
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Re: Spcycle SP-027D Frameset I did some more tuning on the bike and overall I'm pretty happy with it. Running it 1x is just ridiculously fun. Even though it's an aero frame, I can really lay down the power on the hill climbs and it's just responsive. Building AliEx frames is definitely not for everyone, but for some darn reason it puts a smile on face!

On my weekend ride, I caught up to a S-Work Di2 Aethos rider with a good 1 minute hill climb lead by the summit. It's a nice bike, but I couldn't help think the money I saved (compared to the $12k Aethos) could easily be spent on a nice vacation or my kids' college tuition! Lol

April 04, 2023, 12:42:46 PM
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Re: LTWOO RX hydro sets
I just don't understand why would they use a two piece spindle instead of one piece. They just made it more complicated, more expensive to manufacture for no good reason.

Bearings are pressed on the spindle.
A setup that ensures a proper alignment compared to BB cups that sit in general in poorly machined and/or not aligned frames.
The load is then spread more evenly on the two bearings.
Making them live longer.

In the industry, this is an assembly when more precision is required, and to handle better both radial and axial load.

A crankset is always in two pieces anyway.
On others cranksets, on the junction between the crank arm and the spindle gets an orthogonal and heavy load, while here the arms and half spindles are one piece.
Which in theory ends stiffer, if we can ever feel it with our tiny hundreds watts capable legs  :D

April 08, 2023, 01:37:24 AM
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