Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: Gowes on June 04, 2021, 07:04:48 AM
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Hi guys, I need suggestions about frame. I’ve narrowed them down with some pointers:
1. Should have relaxed geometry since I have shorter torso. 172 cm with 81 inseam.
2. Most of my rides are in hilly areas with little bad roads, and at least long distance ride once a week. So an aero and lightweight bike would help.
3. Haven’t done any bike fit, current setup is 517 370 stack and reach.
My current options are:
Tantan x21 for aero, lacking reach, slightly heavier
Tantan gr039 no aero seatube, perfect reach, ok weight for gravel frame
Carbonda cfr505 no aero seatube, ok reach, on the heavy side
Carbonda cfr1056 no aero seat tube, reach helped by stack, decent weight
Velobuild vbr99 laero, decent reach for me, decent weight
Workswell wcb r256 no aero seatube, reach is ok, weight also ok
Workswell wcb r357 no aero seatube, ok reach, no weight info.
Looks like I need to sacrifice something here. Any suggestions?
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Also check out the Carbonda 1056. It has an endurance fit (high stack, short reach), with a more road-like feel (short wheelbase, steeper angles), and it's pretty light weight.
Personally, I recommend against aero seat posts. They don't offer that much of a benefit, they are very uncomfortable, and they are proprietary. What if you want a seat post with a different setback? What if you don't like the clamp design (I hate the two-bolt design most manufacturers use)? What if you got a fancy carbon saddle but the clamp doesn't support oval rails? Too bad, you're stuck with it if it's proprietary and not a standard round shape.
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Also check out the Carbonda 1056. It has an endurance fit (high stack, short reach), with a more road-like feel (short wheelbase, steeper angles), and it's pretty light weight.
Personally, I recommend against aero seat posts. They don't offer that much of a benefit, they are very uncomfortable, and they are proprietary. What if you want a seat post with a different setback? What if you don't like the clamp design (I hate the two-bolt design most manufacturers use)? What if you got a fancy carbon saddle but the clamp doesn't support oval rails? Too bad, you're stuck with it if it's proprietary and not a standard round shape.
Ah, I forgot the 1056. Was looking at it a moment ago and wondering if I’ve put it here. Thanks for the reminder. You maybe right about the seatpost. As I read somewhere, the differences is about 30+ watts between climbing and aero frame. And seat posts are just one of many factors. At first I inclined towards round standard seat post because of many slipping problems, and also the compatibility you’ve mentioned.
So Iguess I could narrow it down to which has more suitable geometry and lightweight. But a thin fork, head tube and low seat stays would help. ;D.
That means 4 choices left:
Tantan x21 for aero, lacking reach, slightly heavier
Tantan gr039 no aero seatube, perfect reach, ok weight for gravel frame
Carbonda cfr505 no aero seatube, ok reach, on the heavy side
Carbonda cfr1056 no aero seat tube, reach helped by stack, decent weight
Velobuild vbr99 laero, decent reach for me, decent weight
Workswell wcb r256 no aero seatube, reach is ok, weight also ok
Workswell wcb r357 no aero seatube, ok reach, no weight info.
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Most important Aero wise are wheels and handlebar /steerer. Those can be your own choice. (this is materials side, far mor important is the fit so I would suggest starting with a proper bike fit.)
I will never buy a bike with proprietary parts again after the nightmare I had sourcing parts for my current bike.
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Most important Aero wise are wheels and handlebar /steerer. Those can be your own choice. (this is materials side, far mor important is the fit so I would suggest starting with a proper bike fit.)
I will never buy a bike with proprietary parts again after the nightmare I had sourcing parts for my current bike.
For the wheels, I’m inclined towards Light Bicycle. They seems to have the quality and dedicated brands. I will look into it after the frame. For the bike fit, I think I’m close to get a good fit. No more numbness and pain for more than 2 hours ride from below the hips area. A little weak in the hip area after 3 hours, probably need more train. Numbness in hand after 3 hours ride, a little pain in shoulder and neck after 6 hours ride.
So you’re suggesting to buy the handlebar from the same manufacturer?
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Farsports, yoeleo, ican, light carbon are all good choices for wheels.
As for frames, people have had issues about dishonesty with tantan in the past through their aliexpress store but youre probably fine if you go on their website. Workswell, for disc brakes, people have also had poor disc lineup but those that have bought from them seem to really like the frame if everythings fine. Carbondas a good choice too.
Speaking quality assurance and customer support, didnt look at geo.
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I have a Carbonda 696,perfect frame. Light bicycle wheels, good too. 1056 Carbonda on order and farsports wheelset too. Service and contact were great so far.
Carbonda sells a matching handlebar for 1056.
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Haven't assembled it yet, but I'm delighted both with the 1056 frame and Carbonda's customer service. Everything worked in the test fit. Full internal cable routing is nice (i.e., through handlebar into headset/headtube then frame). Weights were also on point, though the website publishes only weights for the bare carbon parts, so hardware, such as seat clamp (28g), handlebar top cap (35g), & screws (3g each) added a bit more.
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Workswell seems to have long delivery times at the moment.
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...I'm delighted both with the 1056 frame...Full internal cable routing is nice...
Did you post some pictures of the internal routing?
I quickly scanned the forum but couldn't find any.
I'm thinking moving the components of my Canyon to that frame next season, and do the internal routing.
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Farsports, yoeleo, ican, light carbon are all good choices for wheels.
As for frames, people have had issues about dishonesty with tantan in the past through their aliexpress store but youre probably fine if you go on their website. Workswell, for disc brakes, people have also had poor disc lineup but those that have bought from them seem to really like the frame if everythings fine. Carbondas a good choice too.
Speaking quality assurance and customer support, didnt look at geo.
I guess people can have good and bad experiences. Workswell seems have slightly more prices. Or rather, I heard all chinese manufacturer are raising their prices lately?
I have a Carbonda 696,perfect frame. Light bicycle wheels, good too. 1056 Carbonda on order and farsports wheelset too. Service and contact were great so far.
Carbonda sells a matching handlebar for 1056.
1056’s geometry is more to my preference. (Shorter reach) will look into those you mentioned later, thanks.
Workswell seems to have long delivery times at the moment.
Maybe all global shipments are affected. I purchased a seatpost and took more than a month to arrive, which usually only took about 2 weeks.
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The more I look into, the more choices I have. But they’re all still between endurance or gravel geometry’s.
Tantan gr039 perfect reach, slightly less weight
Carbonda cfr1056 higher stack, medium reach, decent weight
Velobuild gf001 acceptable reach, high stack, abit weight
Vbr066 light weight
Hongfu fm088
Lightcarbon 071sd
I think my choice would still between endurance and gravel frame. Has anyone compare have those 2? (Chiner frame, of course). How are their compliance and stiffness with the same wheelset?
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Hi guys,
Would also like some recommendations on frames if possible? OP, hope this is okay!!
I average around 800km's per month with most rides being between 1 hour to 2 hours (30km to 60km's), with a 3 hour+ ride thrown in when time permits. I'm based in Amsterdam so all of my rides are flat with little to no elevation change and are done solo.
I don't race and my only real goal is to try and increase my avg. speed from around 31km/h to 35km/h. so I can go further in my 1 to 2 hour riding window.
I'm 170cm tall, weigh about 67kg and ride a Triban RC 520 in size Small https://www.decathlon.com/collections/road-bikes/products/road-bike-disc-105-rc-520? (https://www.decathlon.com/collections/road-bikes/products/road-bike-disc-105-rc-520?)
So far I've upgraded the wheels to some 50mm Farsports carbon rims and changed the seat post for a 0mm offset carbon version with carbon seat. This has reduced the weight from around 10.5kg's to 9.1kg's, and I'll be transfering as many parts as possible from my current bike to the new frame.
I'm curently looking at a few frames from VeloBuild (VB-R-099, VB-R-168 and VB-R-177) as they seem to have a good reputation for build quality, customer service and price point and it would be great to get some thoughts on which frame and size may suit me best, or if there are any alternative recommendations.
A geo comparisson of these frames vs what I currently have is here: https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/triban-rc520-2019-s,velobuild-2020-vb-r-099-2020-49,velobuild-2020-vb-r-099-2020-52,velobuild-vb-r-168-2021-49,velobuild-vb-r-168-2021-52,velobuild-vb-r-177-2021-xs,velobuild-vb-r-177-2021-s (https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/triban-rc520-2019-s,velobuild-2020-vb-r-099-2020-49,velobuild-2020-vb-r-099-2020-52,velobuild-vb-r-168-2021-49,velobuild-vb-r-168-2021-52,velobuild-vb-r-177-2021-xs,velobuild-vb-r-177-2021-s)
Looking at the numbers, the VB-R-099 in 49cm size seems to be a best match with a slightly lower stack (expected as it's aero vs endurance geo), and shorter reach. The shorter reach of the VB-R-099 is offset by the fact the shortest stem option that comes with the frame is 90mm vs my current 80mm stem. The proprietary bars seem to have a forward sweep that further increases the reach, and the proprietary seatpost also has a 20mm offset.
My ideal choice would be the VB-R-168 but would like to be able to run a standard bar, stem and seat post which would help with bike fit and replacement parts if needed, however this doesn't seem to be an option.
Anyway, very long post but would be great to get thoughts :)
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I believe you can run a normal stem and handlebar on the VB-R-168 with the right headset.
You could try this ohne
https://www.bike-discount.de/de/kaufen/ritchey-comp-logic-e-cartridge-drop-in-1.5-steuersatz-oberteil-1016601
Here’s another option: https://www.bike24.com/p2422400.html
I haven’t looked in depth, so best to double check.
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Hi guys,
Would also like some recommendations on frames if possible? OP, hope this is okay!!
I average around 800km's per month with most rides being between 1 hour to 2 hours (30km to 60km's), with a 3 hour+ ride thrown in when time permits. I'm based in Amsterdam so all of my rides are flat with little to no elevation change and are done solo.
I don't race and my only real goal is to try and increase my avg. speed from around 31km/h to 35km/h. so I can go further in my 1 to 2 hour riding window.
I'm 170cm tall, weigh about 67kg and ride a Triban RC 520 in size Small https://www.decathlon.com/collections/road-bikes/products/road-bike-disc-105-rc-520? (https://www.decathlon.com/collections/road-bikes/products/road-bike-disc-105-rc-520?)
So far I've upgraded the wheels to some 50mm Farsports carbon rims and changed the seat post for a 0mm offset carbon version with carbon seat. This has reduced the weight from around 10.5kg's to 9.1kg's, and I'll be transfering as many parts as possible from my current bike to the new frame.
I'm curently looking at a few frames from VeloBuild (VB-R-099, VB-R-168 and VB-R-177) as they seem to have a good reputation for build quality, customer service and price point and it would be great to get some thoughts on which frame and size may suit me best, or if there are any alternative recommendations.
A geo comparisson of these frames vs what I currently have is here: https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/triban-rc520-2019-s,velobuild-2020-vb-r-099-2020-49,velobuild-2020-vb-r-099-2020-52,velobuild-vb-r-168-2021-49,velobuild-vb-r-168-2021-52,velobuild-vb-r-177-2021-xs,velobuild-vb-r-177-2021-s (https://geometrygeeks.bike/compare/triban-rc520-2019-s,velobuild-2020-vb-r-099-2020-49,velobuild-2020-vb-r-099-2020-52,velobuild-vb-r-168-2021-49,velobuild-vb-r-168-2021-52,velobuild-vb-r-177-2021-xs,velobuild-vb-r-177-2021-s)
Looking at the numbers, the VB-R-099 in 49cm size seems to be a best match with a slightly lower stack (expected as it's aero vs endurance geo), and shorter reach. The shorter reach of the VB-R-099 is offset by the fact the shortest stem option that comes with the frame is 90mm vs my current 80mm stem. The proprietary bars seem to have a forward sweep that further increases the reach, and the proprietary seatpost also has a 20mm offset.
My ideal choice would be the VB-R-168 but would like to be able to run a standard bar, stem and seat post which would help with bike fit and replacement parts if needed, however this doesn't seem to be an option.
Anyway, very long post but would be great to get thoughts :)
Sure, go ahead. The most aero with fully integrated cockpit would be the best if I may add. Or maybe a TT frame. But As far as I know, no open mould frame have been build on a wind tunnel. Winspace said it was tested on one, but still need more reviews from real user.
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Found a few more china frames that seem to meet my criteria. Does anyone have experience with the following either as a brand or the specific frame that's referenced?
Yoeleo R9 https://www.yoeleobike.com/products/road-bike-frame-carbon-disc-brake-r9 (https://www.yoeleobike.com/products/road-bike-frame-carbon-disc-brake-r9) - slightly older model which was released in 2019 I think, but is a proper aero frame. Quite expensive for a China frame.
Yoeleo R12 2021 Model https://www.yoeleobike.com/products/disc-brake-road-bike-frame-r12 (https://www.yoeleobike.com/products/disc-brake-road-bike-frame-r12) - Looks to be a good balance or aero and endurance. Also quite expensive for a China frame.
Miracle R12 2021 Model - this looks like the same frame as the Yoeleo R12 2021 model but direct from Miracle who look to be the original producers that Yoeleo buy from.
ICAN/Triaero A9 [url=https://icancycling.com/collections/aero-frame-a9]https://icancycling.com/collections/aero-frame-a9 (https://nl.aliexpress.com/item/1005002517648941.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.10.490bbe1e7NT61q[/url) Also a solid looking proper aero bike and quite a bit cheaper than the Yoeleo R9 Aero
ICAN/Triaero A22 https://icancycling.com/collections/road-bike-frame/products/aero-disc-road-frame (https://icancycling.com/collections/road-bike-frame/products/aero-disc-road-frame) - Looks to be the newer version of the ICAN A9 and probably my favourite option. It's also almost €200 cheaper than the A9 and more within my budget. ICAN recommend 25c tyres for this frame, I'd love to know if a 28c would fit as this is what I run, or if the 25c recommendation is actually the max size.
Thanks,
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Gcn did a video saying lightweight beat aero (1 kg, 2.2 lbs less) after 7% for average guys and 4% for pros. Take that into consideration.
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Gcn did a video saying lightweight beat aero (1 kg, 2.2 lbs less) after 7% for average guys and 4% for pros. Take that into consideration.
Yeah I saw that, at the end of the video I think they stated that the tyre pressures and sizes weren't equal which probably had an effect on the results. You would have thought being the only contact point with the road they would have checked that before hand :o
On the topic of light frames though, the Elves Vanya Disc seems to be a pretty good option: https://elvesbike.com/portfolio/vanyar-disc/ , although I can't find many reviews online
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Ok for geometry wise and tire clearance I’ve narrowed it to 2 choices:
1. Tantan GR029 or GR039
2. Carbonda CFR505
Anyone have experience with those 2? Which one has more compliance, and better for long distance comfort?
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Ok for geometry wise and tire clearance I’ve narrowed it to 2 choices:
1. Tantan GR029 or GR039
2. Carbonda CFR505
Anyone have experience with those 2? Which one has more compliance, and better for long distance comfort?
TanTan is quite so-so recently with their after sale support, if things go wrong.
And unfortunately the CFR505 is not sold by carbonda anymore.
You didn't like the CFR707?
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TanTan is quite so-so recently with their after sale support, if things go wrong.
And unfortunately the CFR505 is not sold by carbonda anymore.
You didn't like the CFR707?
Size wise, CFR707 has longer reach and top tube, it’s also heavier. Although the BSA is great. I’m buying frame for a person who use size 47 at the moment. And I don’t think it will fit him. I saw you have experiences with CFR505. What do you think it compares to GR029 in terms of long distance comfort? How do they feel, compared with other big brand names you had?
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The more I look into, the more choices I have. But they’re all still between endurance or gravel geometry’s.
Tantan gr039 perfect reach, slightly less weight
Carbonda cfr1056 higher stack, medium reach, decent weight
Velobuild gf001 acceptable reach, high stack, abit weight
Vbr066 light weight
Hongfu fm088
Lightcarbon 071sd
I think my choice would still between endurance and gravel frame. Has anyone compare have those 2? (Chiner frame, of course). How are their compliance and stiffness with the same wheelset?
On the topic of Velobuild, their 177 frame is their climbing frame, although I didn't check their geometry against your requirements.
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On the topic of Velobuild, their 177 frame is their climbing frame, although I didn't check their geometry against your requirements.
177 is a nice looking frame. Although it needs cable management or atleast a water outlet in BB area. But as you said, it’s a climbing frame which I’m not looking into… yet. :)
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Size wise, CFR707 has longer reach and top tube, it’s also heavier. Although the BSA is great. I’m buying frame for a person who use size 47 at the moment. And I don’t think it will fit him. I saw you have experiences with CFR505. What do you think it compares to GR029 in terms of long distance comfort? How do they feel, compared with other big brand names you had?
My CFR-505 is my go-to bike if I ride more than 300km, not because it is more comfortable than my Canyon Ultimate CF-SLX, but because it has all the screws for bags ;)
I don't know the GR029, but comfort comes from a relatively flexible seatpost(27.2mm) and low pressure tires(eg: 2.5 or 3bars for 40mm tires).
The frame has little to do with comfort. The two triangles of a frame are stiff enough for most of us.
Geometry plays a role too if the rider is not very flexible anymore.
Maybe a shorter stem and spacers, or horror... a reversed stem ;D may bring the handlebar where it should be for your friend on a 707 ?
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The frame has little to do with comfort. The two triangles of a frame are stiff enough for most of us.
That's an interesting thought. Are you referring to the particular range of choices in this thread, or to bike frames in general?
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That's an interesting thought. Are you referring to the particular range of choices in this thread, or to bike frames in general?
In general.
Things happen for sure, Specialized for instance, improved recently the new Crux stiffness by working around the headtube, making other areas lighter.
Most of us will not note the % of stiffness added every year by bike manufacturers.
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Ok, so I bought the GR029 from Tantan since they responded very well.
Now I’m consulting for wheelsets with ‘timetec bike store’ from aliexpress because someone mentioned it here, or other forum; I forgot. Anyone have experience with their stuff? Their rims are lighter, and half the price of light bicycle. I wonder what’re the differences.
Will post how it builds here if anyone interested.
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My CFR-505 is my go-to bike if I ride more than 300km, not because it is more comfortable than my Canyon Ultimate CF-SLX, but because it has all the screws for bags ;)
I don't know the GR029, but comfort comes from a relatively flexible seatpost(27.2mm) and low pressure tires(eg: 2.5 or 3bars for 40mm tires).
The frame has little to do with comfort. The two triangles of a frame are stiff enough for most of us.
Geometry plays a role too if the rider is not very flexible anymore.
Maybe a shorter stem and spacers, or horror... a reversed stem ;D may bring the handlebar where it should be for your friend on a 707 ?
As far as I know, frames do flex vertically to reduce or absorbs vibrations. That’s why a good carbon frame manufacturer pay attention to the layers of carbons. Some thinner, while thicker on other parts. What they avoid is the lateral flex; they want it stiff in that directions to avoid energy loss when pedaling.
Ie. Fork needs some compliance, I have an old rigid MTB fork with same diameter top to bottom. Not sure if it’s butted or not, and it’s so stiff it vibrates alot to my neck on bad roads. Change it to another, boy it feels much better. It get it’s job better smoothening bad roads. But fork need to be stiff so it can reject the lateral force when standing. Disc rub when off saddle is the sign of bad flex.
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As far as I know, frames do flex vertically to reduce or absorbs vibrations. That’s why a good carbon frame manufacturer pay attention to the layers of carbons. Some thinner, while thicker on other parts. What they avoid is the lateral flex; they want it stiff in that directions to avoid energy loss when pedaling.
It appears(again from the new Crux) it is more the shape of the tubes and their connections, than the carbon layups that make the stiffness.
eg: some flatish seatstays may flex more vertically, than laterally.
But chainstays are generally in the other direction.
The fork flexes, when climbing "en danseuse" or sprinting, my front disc often rub.
But good luck to flex vertically the down-seat-top tubes triangle ;)
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It is not common that Hambini makes a extremely positive review of a frame.
The ICAN A22 passed the test with flying colors.
I guess they knew what they were doing, and extra machined the BB, the brake mounts, etc...
But in any case, I never worked with them, but will try for sure in the future.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkKFFZluhNA
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Yeah, that was a pretty amazing Hambini review.
I think for most of us who ride/have ridden Chinese frames, it's old news. The "wow" moment, for me, was the direct comparison to a Giant TCR, which was not very flattering for Giant.
It was good to see another positive review for build quality, especially since the A22 was on mh short list for my nect build. Honestly though, at this point, I'd like to see more comprehensive reviews on ride quality and ride experience.