Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: Sjon7283 on October 17, 2014, 04:10:24 AM
-
Hello,
I'm planning my ip256sl build and just made the order. I have to wait for 25 day, because of the popularity of the frame. I've had mailcontact with Bert from xmiplay and i must say, it't great so far.
Frame: ip256sl, 17,5", mat black UD
Fork: Rock shox Reba, black, poplock (maybe upgrade later on)
Groupset: full sram xx1 (trigger shift)
Seatpost: sp7, xmiplay, 400mm
Brakes: sram xx, hs1 rotors 160/160
Handlebar and stem: xmiplay, 620mm/90mm
Saddle: not sure yet.
Grips: esi
Tires: RaRa
I'm going to use the bike for xc competition in the Netherlands. I'm not realy sure about the rims yet. I was planning to buy the ZTR crest rims, but i'm hearing some good things about the carbon rims from China. Does some of you have some good reviews of some of those?
-
Are you sure about the handlebar ? I think 62 cm is to short ( I know you're coming from a 26er). My previous 29er had 71 cm, now I'm riding 68 cm. And I had to get used to it
Got my wheelset from xmiplay and they are really great. Light, 1540 gr, Novatec hubs (= easy to maintain). I like them.
-
I now have a 58cm handlebar on my 26er. I find it difficult to choose the right size on the 29er. Perhaps 620 is to short, but i ride a lot of narrow singletracks and i'm affraid that with a wide handlebar, i'm getting problems with some trees...
The carbon rims do have a great weight, simmular to the ZTR's. Do you notice the benefits of the wider 30mm rims?
-
You may ask to Nancy at light-bicycle.com (http://light-bicycle.com) too.
She is very competent and fast to reply.
In addition they may have more hubs/spoke types available.
After a very rough and rocky ride, my rear wheel(30mm hookless on a 256 19" frame) went out of trueness for about 3-4mm.
I remember the moment of a big hit, by the noise it made, I even thought the rim was broken.
But may be as advertised, hookless rims resist better to abuses.
I contacted her.
She told me it can happen for a new set of wheels, and asked if I had the adequate tools.
Got a spoke wrench and tightened 3-4 spokes, and it is now true again.
I'm very happy of these carbon rims.
With 30mm it seems you can put a lower pressure.
However I use 1.8-2 bar( I'm 72Kg).
For the bar. I was coming from a 26" too, and didn't want those wide bars.
So I took a 66cm bar, that fits my shoulder width.
And can still corner as near to the trees as before.
-
It's easier to shorten the handlebar than make it longer ;)
Yes, I notice some more grip with the 30mm rims. But, I'm not really sure, I also notice some more resistance when riding in the mud, but again, I'm not really sure yet. I'm finding the right pressure. I'm now riding the same pressure as carbonazza, 1.8-2 bar (I'm 82 kg).
-
I'd recommend the 30mm iPlay carbon wheels, I have the bead hook version, the hookless came out after I purchased. The rims have been very good and have stayed true after 5 months of riding.
As for the bars, I run 680mm and we have some narrow single track around here. After a few rides I now prefer wider bars.
-
I think i wil order the size 680 handlebars, thanks for the suggestions!
-
Carbonazza: witch set dit buy at light-bicylcles and is the configuration? (Hubs, thru axle or qr)
Can you tel me the weight of te set? I was first planning to buy the ztr crest, sort of a save choice, but now i'm seriously considdering a carbon Wheelset.
Thanks again!
-
I think i wil order the size 680 handlebars, thanks for the suggestions!
For me 680mm is a good size, I could go up to 700mm but that about my limit. I suppose you can go even wider and later cut them down if they seem too wide.
-
Sjon7283, I took hookless rims.
The external width is 30mm, there are thinner and lighter rims for XC, I think, but I preferred them more robust.
The front wheel has a 123 project hub(for a Lefty fork) and is 680g.
The rear wheel has a Hope Pro V2 Evo(for an XX1 cassette) and is 856g.
Laced with their Pillar aero spoke PSR X-TRA 1420, 32 per wheel.
They say tubeless ready, so it means you need to put a tape(Stan or other) over the spoke holes.
If you want to go tubeless with them. What I did without any problem.
-
I have the weights of the 30mm Iplay hookless in my build thread if you want to go take a look. Very comparative and impressive weight . the entire industry seems to be moving to wider rooms for XC use but both Iplay and Lightbike have lighter weight narrower runs as well if you desire.
For the handle bars, I would definitely go with wider bars and cut then only after you ride it for a while. I find I can't stand 29ers with traditional 26er bar width. They are unmanageable.
-
My rock shox Reba has a 9mmQR and at the rear i have the 12x142 axle. When i order the wheelset, i want the wheels to be future proof. Is it possible to concert thru axle (novatec) hubs into qr 9mm compatible wheels? When i upgrade my fork in the future i can simply switch to the thru axle.
On the light bicycle site, there's a difference in novatec hubs. Running it with thru axle means a whole different type of hub according to their site. (Less lightweight)On the other hand the xmiplay site revers to the same novatec hub in both the qr version as the thru axle version. Does anyone know whats the best choice?
-
Had a similar problem with my original wheel order and a change of fork !
Double check this but I think the Novatec D771/D772 will cope with 9 and 12. While the D991/992 is a 4 in 1 which will accommodate all 4 standards as all 4 types of end caps are included.
(Have a look at novatecusa.net for all the D type hubs)
-
Today i got my hands on a new wheelset. Sorry guys no chinese carbon:
ZTR crest 29" no tubes, RaRa 2.25 with DT SWISS 240s hubs, dt swiss competition spokes and nipples. ( black)
The reason why i choose for this set is that i had the opportunity to get it at a rear good price. Maybe upgrading the set with a couple of carbon rims in the future, but for now, these are my best new friends..
Set need to be converted to xx1 freehub and 142x12 TA at the rear. Does somebody have experience with converting a hub into 142x12?
-
I found this via google:
- Axle conversion kits http://www.wheelbuilder.com/dt-swiss-axle-conversion-kits.html
- freehub conversion kit http://www.wheelbuilder.com/dt-swiss-mtb-rotor-kits-to-convert-to-sram-11-speed.html
Now you have the partnumbers, so it's easier to find prices.
-
Today i got my hands on a new wheelset. Sorry guys no chinese carbon:
ZTR crest 29" no tubes, RaRa 2.25 with DT SWISS 240s hubs, dt swiss competition spokes and nipples. ( black)
The reason why i choose for this set is that i had the opportunity to get it at a rear good price. Maybe upgrading the set with a couple of carbon rims in the future, but for now, these are my best new friends..
Set need to be converted to xx1 freehub and 142x12 TA at the rear. Does somebody have experience with converting a hub into 142x12?
Those are good rims for XC....28 hole if you aren't hard on them....32 if you tend to a little AM
Your hub choice is great...you should have a great lightweight wheelset.
Can you tell us the spoke count and weight of your wheelset?
Finally, no apologies - this is YOUR bike.
-
Both hubs have 32 spoke holes. About the weight, i'm not shure yet.
Hubs about 460gr according to the specs.
Spokes 300 gram
Rims 2x 380grams
Total estimated weight about 1450 grams i think.
-
Change of brakes. Today i sold my new XX brakes and bought the XTR m987 set. I think both are good brakes, but have heard good reviews about the xtr set. Maybe the Shimano are a bit easier to maintain in the future. Are there other bikers using the xtr brakes?
Good news from Bert: end of the week the frame will be shipped.(EMS) Should arrive in about 2 weeks.
-
I have the 987s from Merlincycles in UK - best prices especially with strength of dollar and needing to get rid of them for the M9000 line.
Mine came moto. I removed cable from handle put tape over and ran it up the 057 frame. Some have put a small nail/screw in to cap off...that is fine if you are cutting your brake lines after running them through your frame because of the displacement. I was able to reverse the moto and run cables through the frame and not have to bleed.
Like all Shimano's these are grabby(but not as bad as trails with servo-wave) but I have gotten used to them and get good control from them.
-
Completed my build list today. Hope to stay under 9kg
Not sure about keeping my Prologo Saddle and my look paddles.
The frame has left Hong Kong at the beginning of last week, so i hope it arrives soon! Any experiences in the shipping times to europe/Holland?
-
I think you're very close on the weight. Your build is nearly identical to mine and mine is about 20.5 lbs. Your wheels/tires and brakes are a bit lighter. If you get the reinforced sidewall RaRa's, they will not be anywhere close to 1050g for the set. But they will be much tougher. My RaRa's were in the 620 each range if I recall correctly.
Our builds are close enough that I can say definitively that you will love that machine. It will climb like not much else you've ridden. Enjoy. :)
-
Thanks man, can't wait to ride it! I don't have the reinforced RaRa's. In the meanwhile i take a good look at your build :)
-
I'm up to the point if choosing my shiftercable...... Harder than i thougt! I'm considdering, sram, sram slickwire, Jagwire. Does anyone have good experiences with any of them?
-
There are two modes for the shifter cable.
Either you run only the cable trough the frame, as designed.
Stopping the hose at each end.
And passing the cable trough the rails you see when opening the bottom hatch.
Or run the full hose + cable through the frame. Over the BB shell.
Here is a description how I did it: http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,230.msg2109.html#msg2109
Just for information, the SRAM hose coming with the XX1 group has an outer diameter of 4mm, while Jagwire has a 4.5mm
-
I've done Jagwire on all three of my road bikes with no issues, FWIW.
-
(http://s30.postimg.org/mv5zvsd3x/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/mv5zvsd3x/)
(http://s30.postimg.org/x6icog4t9/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/x6icog4t9/)
(http://s30.postimg.org/t7l55mg65/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/t7l55mg65/)
(http://s30.postimg.org/s410tnvj1/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/s410tnvj1/)
-
Got my iplay toys today! Just finished the break install so its time for some pics. Rear break cable was a bit time consuming, but at the end i managed to instal the brake whithout bleeding.
-
It will feel much better with a bleed on it. Is really recommend it. It's not heard.
-
I Will bleef the brake tomorrow. I'm now at the point of drilling the cablestopt out. Can somebody tell me how the %#$£$% i can drill the rear stop?
-
With a dremel? Or with a little drill by hand and a lot of patience? I did the last one. It took me 3 hours :(
-
Blisters on my fingers.... You dit it with a dremel or by hand also?
-
By hand (drill and pliers). The next time I'll use a dremel.
-
I did it by hand as well.
If you start with a very small diameter, say 2.5mm.
Go through it.
Then take a 3mm, and so on up to 4.5mm (to run a 4mm hose).
Or up to 5mm if you run a 4.5mm hose (jagwire)
It takes about 20' to do it this way.
-
Why are you drilling out the cable stop? Just run bare wire through the frame, it's a lot easier.
-
If you ride in humid conditions. Mud and water accumulate at the bottom of the frame.
Just where the cable passes through, the rather clunky, plastic guide.
By going end-to-end with the lubricated hose, the cable stays protected all through, and provide a very smooth shifting,
And I guess for longer.
-
Is that a problem you guys have seen before, or are you just being proactive? My S-Works Tarmac had exposed bare cable routed under the bottom bracket and I never had any issues in the 2 years I owned it.
-
I think its the best solution, but a hel of à job! Stil drilling.....
-
It was proactive. The cable setup is quite poor on the 256 frame.
The hose is easy to change if you have a long cable(with a double length). One hose pushing the other.
I'm not sure changing the bare cable is easy though.
Since you can't inspect, clean or lube the cable easily when routed internally.
I preferred to have the cable rigidly wrapped in the hose end-to-end. And forget about it.
May be it is an overprotection, but so far the shift is still as sharp as day one.
It could be interesting to see after a wet season or two, how both setups compare.
-
That's good that your shifts are good, that would be my only concern with running so much housing. My company makes automotive cables, and I know your cable efficiency goes down with increased housing and routing, since the housing compresses and changes your effective cable length. Different applications, obviously, so maybe with the lower loads seen on bikes it doesn't matter.
-
Mtb2223: how long is the cable stop inside? I think i'm through with a 4mm drill, but almost the entire drill was needed
-
Ehhh, there wasn't much left of the drill. Just enough to hold the drill with the pliers (Dutch: tang).
It really took al lot of time to drill this way. The next time I'll get a dremel.
-
You think a dremel could do the job? If it does, i'll get a dremel to tomorrow, but i'm not sure i can avoid the seatstay with it. You mean a standard dremel or something with a flexibel hose?
-
You think a dremel could do the job? If it does, i'll get a dremel to tomorrow, but i'm not sure i can avoid the seatstay with it. You mean a standard dremel or something with a flexibel hose?
I think something with a flexible hose. I'm not sure, but I think that's the easiest way. But, you're almost there, Don't you have larger drill ? How long is your drill ? And what about your 3.5 drill ? Or did you directly started with the 4mm ?
-
Directly started with the 4.0 drill....... Now starting with a 4.2 or 4.5 drill, and hoping that wil do the djob. I searched for something with a flex hose, bot can't realy find one on the internet that suits the job. BTW, is the cable stop ar the top also that long on the inside?
-
The top cable stop is aluminium, and very easy to drill.
I did it with an electric drill, again gently from 2.5mm to 4.5mm.
To insure I didn't go out of alignment of the existing hole.
-
Yes, the cable stop at the top is really easy. But the one at the rear is something different.
Sjon, please try first 2.5mm as Carbonazza said. Then one step bigger. As said before, I did is manually with turning the drill with a pliers. It's not easy.
But, you said the complete drill is already into you frame. Maybe you're using a short drill.
-
(http://s28.postimg.org/h1pi07xe1/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/h1pi07xe1/)
(http://s28.postimg.org/4lo6sqeo9/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/4lo6sqeo9/)
(http://s28.postimg.org/of0alfs21/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/of0alfs21/)
-
Cable is in place! Next the BB.
-
(http://s23.postimg.org/vbubyzk5j/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/vbubyzk5j/)
(http://s23.postimg.org/yhexp72rr/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/yhexp72rr/)
(http://s23.postimg.org/eyacfu407/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/eyacfu407/)
-
Today installed the BB, crank, cassette and chain. Tomorrow it's time to take it for the first ride.
-
First test ride today and i noticed there was some spacing on the NECO headset. It's like the top bearing doesn't fit al the way into the top of the frame and there's some space between the bearing and the frame. Someone had the same problem? I heard several if you ride with other headsets like cane creek or FSA?
-
I think you need some shims. I needed that also on my FSA headset (which I ordered from iPlay). If you top bearing drops in without resistance, and there's still room around the bearing, that's no problem. You need definitely some shims. With the shims the top cap pushes the bearing into your frame into a fix position.
-
Thanks! The spaces come on top of the bearing, between the bearing and the topcap?
-
In this order: frame, bearing, lock ring, shims, top cap, optional spacers, stem, optional spacer, end cap.
-
(http://s11.postimg.org/gbrexvher/image_1.jpg)
(http://s10.postimg.org/jbe9gbtc9/image.jpg)
-
Looks great! The red accents are awesome. The 256 makes for a very sleek race-oriented looking bike.
-
Your image too small..
-
Changed the size of the images.
@Sjon7283: Please use the direct link (and not thumbnail for forum) and rotate the image when needed. Thank you. :)
(http://s21.postimg.org/npletd46f/2014_12_09_10_17_45.jpg)
-
Nice bike !
How's the space in the Neco headset today ? Better ?
-
Thanks! Haven't had the time to put the chims in place, i'l let you know when i have,
So far, the bike is superb! The ride is realy responsive and smooth. The combination of the stiffnes and geomatry of the frame makes the bike realy competative. Also i had zero cable noice in the downtube; no foam trick needed here!
Also the reba fork realy surprises me. I wil get a rigid fork also, but the reba makes it a real nice ride.
The xtr brakes are also very nice. I'm glad i made the decission of switching from the xx Avis to the xtr's. Nice feeling on the levers and with the 160m hs1 rotors more than enough stoppingpower for xc competition. 'M not sure about the saddle, maybe i'l get a black/red version instead. Any suggestions?
-
Looks great!!
-
I'm looking fot the best way to close the FD cable tube and the right upper cable hole to prevent getting doet in the frame. What solutions work best in your oppinion?
-
I removed the whole plastic pipe and cable guide.
And for now a duct tape plugs the hole.
But someone used black silicone to plug all unused holes.
Once the duct tape will become loose, I'll see if I put another one, or use silicone.
-
The ride, hows the ride?
-
Review ride after a 600km..
The frame
The frame is realy amazing. It's stiff and comfortable. Due to the xx1 setup, and no cable stack it's also verry quiet! The 17,5 turns out te be perfect to me. The overall weight of the bike, 8,8kg, makes it a perfect climbing machine, althougt a real climbe test is yet to be sceduelled for 30-05-'15 (limburgsmooiste)
The XX1 group
In short, its the best group i have ever ridden. Its light, quiet and works perfectly!
The XTR brakes
Like the xx1 group, its also perfect. its light, Nice eyecatcher, easy to bleed and perfectly adjustable. I ride the brakes with 160 rotors, but in the mountains i will mount a 180 rotor in front. For xco in holland the 160 rotors are fine.
Wheels
The ztr crest combined with the dtswiss 240s hubs they're light, stiff an just beatyfull! At the moment i ride with RaRa 2.1 with are fine when its not to slippery.
The Reba fork
Don't know what to think about the fork so far. Didn't have the opportunity to realy test the fork in rocky areas, but so fas its doing its job.
Future adjustments
Switch the prologo saddle with a selle italia SLR carbon to lose another 125 gramms.
Rigid front fork (vpace 590grams full carbon) to save another 1000gr!
Alternative for the neco headset, also to save some weight. Suggestions are welcome!
-
http://postimg.org/image/qzg0h9h65/
i'm riding the bike for 3000km's now and its time for an update. The only upgrade i gave the bike sinds the building is the slr saddle. Also weighted the bike: 8,876kg with the new saddle!!
I've had no issues at al and except for some creaking from the rear. I first suspected the xx1 cassette, but sinds i recently replaced my old cassette for a new one the creaking is stil there. I think its the drop-outs in the frame like others experience, but i'm not sure yet.
I planned a rigid fork, but after Reading about the dt swiss opm odl 100 carbon fork with its insane weight (1470gr incl. axle)
The ip-256sl is still a very nice bike. The only thing i'm not so happy about is the limited chainring size for the xx1 chainring. I would like to mount a 36t chainring, but it doesn't fit the frame.
-
Thanks for the update, and thorough thread. Love the black and red builds. I'm still waiting for someone to buy some carbon chiner rims and have them painted - Matte red rims would look pretty awesome on your bike imo.
I planned a rigid fork, but after Reading about the dt swiss opm odl 100 carbon fork with its insane weight (1470gr incl. axle)
Yes, this fork has me excited too. There's really no reason not to go ahead and get a few inches of suspension up front now, imo. Other than budget constraints, of course.
-
Yes, i was planning to buy some carbon rims at the start of the build, but ran into a nice set of ztr crest wheels with the dt swiss rims. Maybe in the future i'll go for a Nice carbon set. Are there riders with painted chinese carbon rims?
-
Are there riders with painted chinese carbon rims?
Not that I know of, really. I got the idea from this thread: http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,253.0.html
And I totally forgot about this pic in that thread that shows the exact rim color I was thinking of for your bike, except maybe a little darker red tone:
(http://i.imgur.com/4lya0qp.jpg)
-
I would like to mount a 36t chainring, but it doesn't fit the frame.
Are you sure ? I've got the same frame with a X01 Crankset and a 36T Chainring. Q-Factor is 168
Perhaps you have the XX1 crankset with Q-Factor 156? Switch to 168 and it works...
(http://s1.postimg.org/82cdm3oy7/DSC_0200.jpg)
-
Perhaps you have the XX1 crankset with Q-Factor 156? Switch to 168 and it works...
Should be same with Q-Factor of 156 or 168. With both the chainring is 49mm from centerline (XX1 and X01): https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign.netdna-ssl.com/cdn/farfuture/Dqt1Vf8U0BgaNattQmWXU8Ds9UAYUH4k9ycYMlEmEJg/mtime:1433863515/sites/default/files/techdocs/gen.0000000004911_rev_b_2016_mtb_drivetrain_ffs.pdf (https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign.netdna-ssl.com/cdn/farfuture/Dqt1Vf8U0BgaNattQmWXU8Ds9UAYUH4k9ycYMlEmEJg/mtime:1433863515/sites/default/files/techdocs/gen.0000000004911_rev_b_2016_mtb_drivetrain_ffs.pdf) (page 32 and 35).
For me what I would like is 38T though (I did this research because of it), so I need the Boost 148 compatible frame with 52mm distance between chainring and centerline.. :(
-
For me what I would like is 38T though (I did this research because of it), so I need the Boost 148 compatible frame with 52mm distance between chainring and centerline.. :(
take a look at my picture, it's a 36T and I would say, there is another 4mm space for the 38T...
It's a standard IP256SL frame with PF92 bottom bracket option.
-
Thanks, that looks hopefull! I always thougt it would not fit. My bb is a gxp, so i don't know if the chainline is the same. Does anyone know howmany mm the 36t takes compared to the 34t?
-
Does anyone know howmany mm the 36t takes compared to the 34t?
The radius is 4mm bigger. Every 2T add 4mm on SRAM chainrings.
-
Small update: leaving the 34t chainring on because i think the 36t won't fit. Changed the er xmiplay axle for a dtswiss RWE axle. No creaking ever since....
The dt swiss OPM ODL race wil be available in september this year dt swiss promissed. Hoping to loose some weight. (REBA 1645gr, dt swiss 1485gr inl. thru axle)
Also orders some schwalbe thunder burts lite skins. Some friends have good experiences with the tire and at a weight of 435gr very attractive.
After the changes i hope to hit the sub 8,5kg. (8,8 kg at the moment)
http://s21.postimg.org/glqw80f4n/image.jpg
(http://s21.postimg.org/mmol531qr/image.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/mmol531qr/)
-
I'm running TB as a rear tire here in southern California, where everything is loose over hard pack, hard pack or sand. Works great, has great bite for climbing, sometimes not the best grip braking, but acceptable. I'm at 460 miles, it's starting to get a little ragged, but I have another one sitting in the garage to replace at 500 miles. At about 350 there was a noticable reduction in bite when climbing looser stuff, or the loose over hard mentioned above.
It might just be me, but I feel that it doesn't work as well when leaned over, so might not be the best front tire.