Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: OralMaster on December 08, 2023, 12:29:54 AM
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https://youtu.be/x0L9USE7mco?si=7JPnX7sPmMfElagw
pricing looks good (3999 rmb for carbon hydraulic disc), available in both disc/rim, and carbon / alu
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Weights on this reel:
Shifters: 428g
FD: 185g (500mAh battery)
RD: 319g (800mAh battery)
Disc brakes: xxx
Upgrade kit: 1,263g
https://www.facebook.com/share/r/k6QjJLVYM3sBrHVQ/ (https://www.facebook.com/share/r/k6QjJLVYM3sBrHVQ/)
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On going thread already exists. Here is the link to the existing thread.
Do we need a separate thread for the road version?
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3960.0.html
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That's the slowest shifting FD I have ever seen.
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That's the slowest shifting FD I have ever seen.
I am confident that's slow motion footage. Why would they do that? God knows. Chinese marketing departments can be a bit odd sometimes.
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I am confident that's slow motion footage. Why would they do that? God knows. Chinese marketing departments can be a bit odd sometimes.
Yeah, or the cadence of the rider is very slow :D
That FB reel is also really amateurish...
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idk what you're expecting. Makes sense to me for them to spend the money actually developing the product in these stages rather than making shiny marketing material. Their future depends on this being an actual reliable and functional product
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They have front derraileur trim, if it's auto trim they'll be getting a call from shimano lawyers this time
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Its a tough market to be in right now. At ~500USD for the hydro group its tough to justify going with an unproven product when you can piece together a Sram AXS rival 2x system for less than $600 including batteries and an Apex 1x lever set w/ Force brakes + Rival Xplr RD for $470 including battery.
The Wheeltop system also loses the removable battery which is a really nice part of living with the Sram system and you also lose the clutched RD.
Edit: should add that its $522+tax RN to grab open box 105 di2 levers+brakes, FD, RD, battery and cables from the Pros Closet; so there is another option in that $500 price range for electronic shifting for the US based people.
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I guess it makes it as bad as new campagnolo ;D
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Lots of rim brake folks out there who could be interested in this maybe? I am intrigued, but way too happy with my rim brake bike to give this a try.
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I am intrigued and I won't run sram as long as the front range is so limited
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How do you replace the battery if it goes bad?
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How do you replace the battery if it goes bad?
My brother will figure out how one replaced the fixed battery. He recently purchased the new Version EDX fixed battery and says he will figure out how to replace it. He wanted the original version with removable battery, but they were no longer available. (I have 4 of the EDS removable battery long cage derailleurs.) Love them so far!
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Lots of rim brake folks out there who could be interested in this maybe? I am intrigued, but way too happy with my rim brake bike to give this a try.
This group set is out of the picture for me. If I ever build up a new road bike, I will go with hydraulic disc brakes. I have my 2 road bikes that I seldom ride anymore because of safety concerns riding on paved roads with cars. USA society has slowly been "killing" of road riders via too many distracted and aggressive drivers on the road.
MY money for the rest of my life will be focused on Gravel riding and MTB riding. Road bikes only for foreign trips and organized rides like centuries.
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This group set is out of the picture for me. If I ever build up a new road bike, I will go with hydraulic disc brakes. I have my 2 road bikes that I seldom ride anymore because of safety concerns riding on paved roads with cars. USA society has slowly been "killing" of road riders via too many distracted and aggressive drivers on the road.
MY money for the rest of my life will be focused on Gravel riding and MTB riding. Road bikes only for foreign trips and organized rides like centuries.
I live simultaneously in the best (weather) and worst (infrastructure) city for cyclists in the US. I actually find it's safer to ride in the rough neighborhoods as opposed to the nice neighborhoods. The nicer the area, the more entitled the drivers. This is why I focus more on road and gravel climbing to avoid traffic. I remember as a kid in the 80s, US road cycling had much more appeal. Nowadays the barrier of entry is much too high for all but the most dedicated and well-funded enthusiasts. This site being the exception, but still being very niche.
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This group set is out of the picture for me. If I ever build up a new road bike, I will go with hydraulic disc brakes. I have my 2 road bikes that I seldom ride anymore because of safety concerns riding on paved roads with cars. USA society has slowly been "killing" of road riders via too many distracted and aggressive drivers on the road.
MY money for the rest of my life will be focused on Gravel riding and MTB riding. Road bikes only for foreign trips and organized rides like centuries.
Cmon use your eyes, it's explicitly stated there are hydraulic disc versions
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Cmon use your eyes, it's explicitly stated there are hydraulic disc versions
Thanks. Who would think that the last picture would state this in the prices rather than in the first spec page. Plus, the image size I looked at, the text was too small to actually see clearly. Old blurry eyes had to zoom the picture in to be able to read the small text.
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Some new promo videos of the road groupset:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmmVNEVfIcY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK_SERotuGY
Seems interesting but the proof will be getting a few sets out for longer term reviews.
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I have much more confidence in WheelTop re: hardware than LTWOO or Sensah. Software ... we'll see.
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same
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Sorry if i missed, has this groupset been released? Keen to order.
I’ve ordered the L-twoo ERX (on sale $600) will put that on a new light carbon build
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First listing I've seen on AliExpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006338885203.html
Hydraulic disc install video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmyoX0q4tQU
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nice find, becoming real.
I saw you can adjust from 7s to 12s on the screen app, let's see if it is true or not.
Here you can pre order it
https://www.instagram.com/p/C2J-8uNMIIg/?img_index=1 (https://www.instagram.com/p/C2J-8uNMIIg/?img_index=1)
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7-13 s acually
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7-13 s acually
ah yes 13s.
Hope to see a review from Trace velo or china cycling about it, the Ltwoo was very promising but all the recent issues are making it less interesting.
If Wheeltop is near to perfect, Ltwoo will have to quickly release an update of their product.
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That's crazy ass cheap and interesting! If this goes well I think the big names should update their prices
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Global launch in Feb 2024
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That's crazy ass cheap and interesting! If this goes well I think the big names should update their prices
Including VAT for EU it's not very interesting for the time being. But it's only the first listing so prices should go down...
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Weight and price comparison.
Wheeltop EDS TX
Source https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s9E3HGAlmI
Shifters - 430g
Front derailleur - 185g
Rear derailleur - 320g
Overall - 935 g.
Current price on aliexpress around 720 USD. Price for Malaysia 2900 RM or around 620 USD (source https://www.instagram.com/p/C2ExxBas-Wf)
L-TWOO ER9
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71En2akvLKA
Shifters - 450g
Front derailleur - 141g.
Rear derailleur - 293g.
Battery case - 22g.
2x 14500 batteries - around 40g.
Cables - 27g.
Overall - 975g.
Current price on aliexpress around 500 USD.
L-TWOO ERX
Weight is almost the same as the ER9, 20-30g lighter due to carbon brake levers and a carbon rear derailleur cage.
Current price on aliexpress around 660 USD.
Shimano 105 R7100 Di2
Source https://www.bikeradar.com/features/shimano-105-di2-weight
Shifters - 442g.
Front derailleur - 138g.
Rear derailleur - 301g.
Battery- 52g.
Cables - 21g.
Overall - 954g.
Current price on aliexpress around 800 USD.
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First listing I've seen on AliExpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006338885203.html
Hydraulic disc install video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmyoX0q4tQU
Here is the kicker for me...
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wait for the groupset to be released in February and more sellers will have it.
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For a rookie like myself what cassette and chain can I run on this group set?
Really keen on pulling the trigger, 900AUD on Ali atm.
I should prob wait till reviews come out tho haha
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For a rookie like myself what cassette and chain can I run on this group set?
Really keen on pulling the trigger, 900AUD on Ali atm.
I should prob wait till reviews come out tho haha
Yeah, you don't want to be a beta tester like all those people with their faulty Ltwoo sets... Not for this kind of money...
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I'm assuming it should be possible to swap out for Magura or Shimano calipers?
Hoods and calipers are an unknown quantity, but I doubt Wheeltop will release derailleurs with the kind of problems LTWOO and Sensah have had, if their MTB offering is anything to go by. Software ... we'll see.
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For a rookie like myself what cassette and chain can I run on this group set?
In theory, if they have similar/same software as on the MTB version, any brand cassette 7 to 13 speed. The software will let you adjust to the cog number and cog spacing. Regarding the chain, its compatibility with the cassette and front chain-rings would be the primary factor.
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Yeah, you don't want to be a beta tester like all those people with their faulty Ltwoo sets... Not for this kind of money...
My issue with the Wheeltop groupset is the lack of replaceable batteries, weather proofing and overall mechanical durability. Not to mention price-wise it's already creeping into 105 Di2.
LTwoo eroded so much trust in their ERX/9, it's like playing Russian roulette with the groupset. The least they could offer are definitive revisions so you know you're not buying old stock.
Right now 11 speed Ultegra mechanical components are being sold for great prices. That's a solid groupset in terms of price, weight and performance (minus the crankset). An Ltwoo/Wheeltop/Sensah electronic groupset would need to reach that bar of reliability to be considered worthwhile.
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Electronic groupsets have been a game changer for all the bike builds and reviews I do. Especially with SRAM eTap. Literally cuts my bike building time from 3 days down to same day in some cases. During Christmas 2022 you could find SRAM Force D1 mini-groups (Levers, Calipers, Both Derailleurs, Centerline CLX-R Rotors, Batteries, and Charger) for $900 USD. Comparable Rival sets were like $600. And SRAM/Quarq Spider Power Meters for $300. What a time to be alive...
However, my longest withstanding bike currently has 6000mi/10000km on it. Ultegra R8020 Mechanical 11sp. I can't recall any time I've ever missed shift or needed to adjust the barrel adjuster. Extremely reliable and quite frankly it shifts just quickly as eTap/Di2. Maybe 2 milliseconds slower but I bet in a blind test I probably wouldn't notice.
As mentioned above, Ultegra R8020 can be had cheap these days. Even Shimano's new 105 12sp Mechanical is on sale now too. Sure routing 4 cables internally is a pain. But if you plan to keep the bike for a long time I'm taking either of those groupsets over LTWOO eRX or WheelTop EDS every single day of the week.
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Their website is down right now so I'd guess they're probably working on updating it for the launch.
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Man I'd love to put this on my 2004 CAAD4 just to be that guy. I use this bike in crits so I don't want to drop 1000 on shifty bits, but $600... maybe
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I have high hopes that this will be more functional than the Ltwoo groups, but the lack of removable battery is an issue for me. When I moved to an electronic group i didnt think about it, but its been THE factor in me going Sram for my last few builds. Its just way easier to keep a spare battery or two than worry about charging. Well worth spending an extra 10-20min on more fiddley FD setup.
Electronic groupsets have been a game changer for all the bike builds and reviews I do. Especially with SRAM eTap. Literally cuts my bike building time from 3 days down to same day in some cases. During Christmas 2022 you could find SRAM Force D1 mini-groups (Levers, Calipers, Both Derailleurs, Centerline CLX-R Rotors, Batteries, and Charger) for $900 USD.
You can still get the $900 kit here: https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=113939
Man I'd love to put this on my 2004 CAAD4 just to be that guy. I use this bike in crits so I don't want to drop 1000 on shifty bits, but $600... maybe
The cheapest AXS setup is either getting Rival levers on sale (target <$300 for left and right + brakes) or the Apex AXS exchange lever ($107-$112 list price) + Apex / S300 brake calipers ($39.99/ ea list) and brake bolts ($5.59 / set list) + Flat mount adapter ($19.99 ea) + a Rival Axs 36 / XPLR RD (seem to be plenty of new ones sub $200) + Battery set. Should be really close to $600 for all the hoses + shifty bits. Might be less.
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Unfortunately youre then stuck in sram's proprietary cassetes, chains, small front shift range, etc.
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Yeah, you don't want to be a beta tester like all those people with their faulty Ltwoo sets... Not for this kind of money...
That’s the thing tho… I can buy the EDS TX currently for $900-$1100 AUD, SRAM will cost me $1900-$2400AUD for a etap rival set.
The pricing is decent for me, I just gotta figure out if the risk is worth it.
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Advantage of erx/eds is not only the price, but customization. You can set number of gears, you can set up each gear individually. If, for some reason, you want to change cassette from 12 speed to 10 or 11, or vice versa, you just unscrew old components, install new, and do a few clicks in the app to tune your gear. With big brands you need to buy a new shifters and derailleurs.
So if erx/eds will be reliable as shimano/sram, and cost the same as 105/rival, it still be a good choice.
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Unfortunately youre then stuck in sram's proprietary cassetes, chains, small front shift range, etc.
You aren't though. The only thing is Sram chains are needed for Sram cassettes. You can definitely use non-Sram 16t gap 12 speed chainrings just fine. People are using Shimano and Campagnolo 12 spd cassettes with AXS as well.
Sram Force chains also are really cheap to run because they last a long time.
Chains, cassettes and chainrings are a place where the big brands have a huge leg up right now.
Advantage of erx/eds is not only the price, but customization. You can set number of gears, you can set up each gear individually. If, for some reason, you want to change cassette from 12 speed to 10 or 11, or vice versa, you just unscrew old components, install new, and do a few clicks in the app to tune your gear. With big brands you need to buy a new shifters and derailleurs.
So if erx/eds will be reliable as shimano/sram, and cost the same as 105/rival, it still be a good choice.
I believe competition is great and that without Ltwoo and Wheeltop the Apex and GX AXS wouldnt exist. If wheeltop could have retained the removable battery, an 1x13 electronic group using the Ekar cassettes would have been amazing. I have doubts though about how usable this product will be though after the lawyers had a go.
We also dont know if the drop bar levers can work with MTB RD, right? Could be a great mullet option.
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That’s the thing tho… I can buy the EDS TX currently for $900-$1100 AUD, SRAM will cost me $1900-$2400AUD for a etap rival set.
The pricing is decent for me, I just gotta figure out if the risk is worth it.
Yeah, it's totally different here in the EU. For a couple 100 more you get a decent and proven groupset...
Maybe just wait a couple of months until the first reviews are out?
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You aren't though. The only thing is Sram chains are needed for Sram cassettes. You can definitely use non-Sram 16t gap 12 speed chainrings just fine. People are using Shimano and Campagnolo 12 spd cassettes with AXS as well.
Sram Force chains also are really cheap to run because they last a long time.
Chains, cassettes and chainrings are a place where the big brands have a huge leg up right now.
I believe competition is great and that without Ltwoo and Wheeltop the Apex and GX AXS wouldnt exist. If wheeltop could have retained the removable battery, an 1x13 electronic group using the Ekar cassettes would have been amazing. I have doubts though about how usable this product will be though after the lawyers had a go.
We also dont know if the drop bar levers can work with MTB RD, right? Could be a great mullet option.
You're limited to a 50:11 max in that case and with sram's sensitive front derraileur going beyond 13t jump on the front will be dubious. Without the 10t cog you have to commit to either a high lowest gear or a low highest gear.
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The cheapest AXS setup is either getting Rival levers on sale (target <$300 for left and right + brakes) or the Apex AXS exchange lever ($107-$112 list price) + Apex / S300 brake calipers ($39.99/ ea list) and brake bolts ($5.59 / set list) + Flat mount adapter ($19.99 ea) + a Rival Axs 36 / XPLR RD (seem to be plenty of new ones sub $200) + Battery set. Should be really close to $600 for all the hoses + shifty bits. Might be less.
I need to get the force rim brake shifters, ($500) plus you leave out the crankset since I can't use the 11 speed I already have
If I went this route I would only need the 4 pieces and I can keep my 11 speed cassette/crankset
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You're limited to a 50:11 max in that case and with sram's sensitive front derraileur going beyond 13t jump on the front will be dubious. Without the 10t cog you have to commit to either a high lowest gear or a low highest gear.
I really dont get the aversion to the 10t. Its not a gear you use much when power efficiency matters, even when sprinting. I think that for most people a 48/32 with a 10-29 (Campagnolo) or 10-28(Sram) is a fantastic mix of range and tight sprockets. If you want more range the Sram 10-33 is brilliant with tight spacing on the lower sprockets and a nice bailout gear if you need it. If you are really strong a 50/34 big ring with a 10t is more gear than most riders can push
My bikes have worked fine with the 16t from Easton, Shimano and Praxis; but worth noting that even Shimano drops to 14t gaps with their rings used by pro riders as there is an inherent shift speed advantage. SRAM Fds are problematic since you really need to keep them straight during setup, which requires care even with their setup tool. Would be really interesting to see if Wheeltop did better with their design in terms of easier setup.
I need to get the force rim brake shifters, ($500) plus you leave out the crankset since I can't use the 11 speed I already have
If I went this route I would only need the 4 pieces and I can keep my 11 speed cassette/crankset
Sorry, i spaced on that being a rim brake bike. Feel like an idiot right now.
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The point is that in this case I don't mind the 10t cog, but to be able use a 10t cog you need srams casettes chains and freehubs
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d on that being a rim brake bike. Feel like an idiot right now.
i feel like an idiot trying to putting $1000 groupset on a bike from 2004 lol
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Shimano 105 R7100 Di2
Current price on aliexpress around 800 USD.
Can anybody send me a link for R7100 Di2 on Ali for $800 USD??
Tim
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Can anybody send me a link for R7100 Di2 on Ali for $800 USD??
Tim
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005735102271.html or just find anrancee cycling Store on AliExpress
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I just unboxed my EDS TX... build to follow...
https://taichocyclist.wixsite.com/mysite/post/unboxing-series-wheeltop-eds-tx-wireless-electronic-groupset (https://taichocyclist.wixsite.com/mysite/post/unboxing-series-wheeltop-eds-tx-wireless-electronic-groupset)
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I just unboxed my EDS TX... build to follow...
https://taichocyclist.wixsite.com/mysite/post/unboxing-series-wheeltop-eds-tx-wireless-electronic-groupset (https://taichocyclist.wixsite.com/mysite/post/unboxing-series-wheeltop-eds-tx-wireless-electronic-groupset)
First person to have their hands on a retail set to upload on YouTube - very brave!
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I just unboxed my EDS TX... build to follow...
https://taichocyclist.wixsite.com/mysite/post/unboxing-series-wheeltop-eds-tx-wireless-electronic-groupset (https://taichocyclist.wixsite.com/mysite/post/unboxing-series-wheeltop-eds-tx-wireless-electronic-groupset)
looking forward to this
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https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005735102271.html or just find anrancee cycling Store on AliExpress
i'm assuming nobody has had troubles with one of these groupsets? price looks delish.
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looking forward to this
Nothing ventured nothing gained/pained?! ;D
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I just unboxed my EDS TX... build to follow...
https://taichocyclist.wixsite.com/mysite/post/unboxing-series-wheeltop-eds-tx-wireless-electronic-groupset (https://taichocyclist.wixsite.com/mysite/post/unboxing-series-wheeltop-eds-tx-wireless-electronic-groupset)
nice thank you, just take care that sram and the eds include the battery, while shimano the battery is in the seatpost, so your total weight is not 100% accurate for shimano
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Well the Shimano weights are for references anyway but you have highlighted a very good point, thank you!
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Their website is down right now so I'd guess they're probably working on updating it for the launch.
It is live again, with the eds tx
https://wheeltop.com/ (https://wheeltop.com/)
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It is live again, with the eds tx
https://wheeltop.com/ (https://wheeltop.com/)
On Fire Fox, It looks like it is live, but when I click on the selection box, it locks up the selection feature, and the top pull down menu to select either MTB or road.
If I touch the "learn More" box details for the kit show up, but once on this page other features are locked up.
I have to close the page and start over again.
When I open using Chrome, everything works OK. (I try not to use Chrome these days after having a bunch of problems last year.)
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On Fire Fox, It looks like it is live, but when I click on the selection box, it locks up the selection feature, and the top pull down menu to select either MTB or road.
If I touch the "learn More" box details for the kit show up, but once on this page other features are locked up.
I have to close the page and start over again.
When I open using Chrome, everything works OK. (I try not to use Chrome these days after having a bunch of problems last year.)
for me it works well on firefox 121.0.1
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I just unboxed my EDS TX... build to follow...
https://taichocyclist.wixsite.com/mysite/post/unboxing-series-wheeltop-eds-tx-wireless-electronic-groupset (https://taichocyclist.wixsite.com/mysite/post/unboxing-series-wheeltop-eds-tx-wireless-electronic-groupset)
The build is about to begin.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RzfPshUKSZooryHM6 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/RzfPshUKSZooryHM6)
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The build is about to begin.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/RzfPshUKSZooryHM6 (https://photos.app.goo.gl/RzfPshUKSZooryHM6)
Nice frame, it is the alpe d'huez, right?
Let us know about the shifting performance
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They have front derraileur trim, if it's auto trim they'll be getting a call from shimano lawyers this time
By?? The Sram eTap has wired blips, wouldn't Shimnao have patented satellite controls? The new Red AXS that is coming out soon also has an auxiliary button on the levers, isn't that also patented by Shimano....the Sram and Campagnolo derailleurs have auto trim, right?
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Ltwoo had auto trim and had to remove it after a warning from shimano
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Ltwoo had auto trim and had to remove it after a warning from shimano
true it was part of an update they did later on, after shimano complain. with all the patents sram and shimano have placed it is very difficult for the new groupset manufacturer to navigate.
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By?? The Sram eTap has wired blips, wouldn't Shimnao have patented satellite controls? The new Red AXS that is coming out soon also has an auxiliary button on the levers, isn't that also patented by Shimano....the Sram and Campagnolo derailleurs have auto trim, right?
The methods for managing "trim" different. Campagnolo uses a sensor to guide the trim behavior and while i think Sram played with autotrim or something that behaved like it on some beta releases, i think the firmware launched with the D2 Force groups does individual front shift profiles depending on the rear gear you are in and rely on the YAW geometry (which they also patented) to avoid needing trim the way Shimano does it.
I am sure patents exist on satellite shifters, but guessing they either weren't enforceable or were covered under expired patents from Mavic Zap or Mektronic.
The legal stuff around groups has really hobbled Ltwoo and Wheeltop. A far cry from a decade ago when Cherry was making GM and VW cars where you could swap body panels with the real thing.
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who else finds that a fixed battery is a very bad idea? if it dies for whatever reason during a trip or something, game over Mario :-*.
The solution from Shimano DI2 is a little better in the sense that it can be easily replaced, but still you cannot that easily bring a spare.
The solution from SRAM I find the best (I wish it was patent free so that Shimano and Wheeltop could just use it). Cheap and lightweight batteries with the same format for all parts which, in case of battery malfunction -or running out of juice-, you can just replace.
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who else finds that a fixed battery is a very bad idea? if it dies for whatever reason during a trip or something, game over Mario :-*.
The solution from Shimano DI2 is a little better in the sense that it can be easily replaced, but still you cannot that easily bring a spare.
The solution from SRAM I find the best (I wish it was patent free so that Shimano and Wheeltop could just use it). Cheap and lightweight batteries with the same format for all parts which, in case of battery malfunction -or running out of juice-, you can just replace.
Yeah, those small non-replaceable batteries are also a no-go for me.
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I actually like LTwoo's battery replaceable solution and user selection for 10/11/12 speed cassettes. If it wasn't for the issues with dead derailleurs, I probably would have bought the groupset already. I'll see what 2024 has to offer.
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they are quite active on their instagram account.
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I actually like LTwoo's battery replaceable solution and user selection for 10/11/12 speed cassettes. If it wasn't for the issues with dead derailleurs, I probably would have bought the groupset already. I'll see what 2024 has to offer.
I like that approach better, too. With LTWOO you could literally pop into a shop and buy a set of regular batteries and get going again. To me that’s a welcome deviation from the usual proprietary stuff that bike brands come up with. Regardless I’m super interested to see how the new Wheeltop groupset performs.
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who else finds that a fixed battery is a very bad idea? if it dies for whatever reason during a trip or something, game over Mario :-*.
All 4 of my EDS OX derailleurs have the removable batteries. To date, the removable batteries last a long time, over 600 miles of riding for me with lots of shifting.
OTOH: Weird things have been happening. Yesterday, I went out on a snow ride on a bike I haven't ridden it about a month. The bike was shifting OK, but I though that I would swap to a charged battery to be sure that the battery on the bike might be low on charge. I swapped to a supposedly fully charged battery. It wouldn't shift. No lights. Swapped to another battery. This battery didn't shift the derailleur either. Put the original one back one and rode, leaving the other 2 on their chargers. Then swapped one of the freshly charged battery onto the derailleur and it worked. Now I am wondering why 2 fully charged batteries were drained of power after sitting around on a shelf for a month after last being charged.
Regarding the fixed battery. I am sure you can put a routine in place where you use your Wheeltop app on your phone to check the % charge / # of shifts left. If you see the battery is below your charge comfort level, you can top it off.
I wonder too, if the magnetic charging cable charges the battery while the derailleur is in operation. One could secure the charge cable to the frame and use a battery bank to charge the battery while riding. (Anyone test this?)
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I’ve gone ahead and purchased a wheeltop EDS for my new gravel build, wish me luck.
Light carbon LCG073-D
Wheeltop
Zipp303S
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Everyone things on 'the moment the battery runs out of juice'. With die I mean dying for good, which sometimes happens with lithium batteries. Doing a long trip and it dying for real must suck.
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A quick video of my new TIME Alpe d'Huez 2023 built with the WheelTop EDS TX transmission groupset. Full review after a few rides and tests later.
https://youtu.be/AZ1Ikey23Gs?si=9MiEe96RIrcbexJQ (https://youtu.be/AZ1Ikey23Gs?si=9MiEe96RIrcbexJQ)
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what setup did you use? Chains, cranks cassette?
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what setup did you use? Chains, cranks cassette?
Crankarms - Shimano R8100 Ultegra 12 speed w/Stages G3 left arm
Chainring - Stone 50T/34T Compact Ratio
Cassette - Sunshine SL 11T-32T 12-Speeds (soon to be replaced with 11T-30T Zitto 12-Speeds Black)
Chain - SUMC 12 Speed SL hollow pin and joint (Rainbow color)
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A quick video of my new TIME Alpe d'Huez 2023 built with the WheelTop EDS TX transmission groupset. Full review after a few rides and tests later.
https://youtu.be/AZ1Ikey23Gs?si=9MiEe96RIrcbexJQ (https://youtu.be/AZ1Ikey23Gs?si=9MiEe96RIrcbexJQ)
Damn, that's some crisp shifting 8)
Beautiful bike too!
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Do you have auto trimming on the FD? I see it is moving a little when you go up and down on the cog.
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Do you have auto trimming on the FD? I see it is moving a little when you go up and down on the cog.
Seems like it but not sure if this in anyway may infringe Shimano's patent but no issues with shifting in casual mode.
However in casual mode, the system seems to auto prevent shifting last 2 gears on either sides of the chainring to prevent cross-chaining; ie. Lager ring cannot last 2 biggest gears while small ring cannot use the front 2 smallest.
There is a Racing Mode which I believe shifts faster without the gear lock. That will also use up more power so more tests shall reveal it all.
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Damn, that's some crisp shifting 8)
Beautiful bike too!
Thank you. I am pretty fussy about color coordination.
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Any idea when an Aliexpress store or Wheel Top will be shipping to the USA?
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https://wheeltop.com/products/eds-bicycle-derailleur
Product page has been updated with some specs and stuff, still not selling and the prices seem like placeholders still. Not sure those reviews are entirely real either.
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I wrote ExAid Cycling Store and asked if they could send a hydraulic version kit to the US. They stated they could as soon as the product becomes available.
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Do they not have a timeframe?
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Do they not have a timeframe?
I asked when, no response yet.
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It looks like the battery (at least the rear one) is bolted on with two hex bolts. So maybe there will be a possibility to replace the battery in an emergence?
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The batteries are replaceable, not quick-swappable. There's no reason you couldn't swap them like sram, you just need tools, an extra battery and a bit more time. I doubt they will just be available for sale like sram though.
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Hi sir, your Time ADH looks so sexy and it's a dream bike. Just a question, any reason why you pick Wheeltop EDS over Ltwoo ERX for groupset selecyion?
Thank you. I am pretty fussy about color coordination.
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Hey Team,
Sorry I am currently will with COVID from unknown source grrr~!
The batteries are definitely replaceable but like everyone, we need to find a source else its back to manufacturer WheelTop. The battery is screwed against the derailleurs so some work is needed to have them removed.
I have seen the Aliexpress link selling the EDS TX online. They seem to deliver to many states but I cannot tell if all are there since I am a "Singaporean", Senator Tom.
BTW, first ride month review is out but done while I am ill.. so forgive me on the quality as I can barely talk with a sore toad throat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC4QdiI3CcY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC4QdiI3CcY)
Not sure if you can see my video link clearly but search for Taicho Cyclist Channel and you can see the video if the hyperlink in my post is somehow blocked.
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Just saw this on AliEx and they appear to ship to the US:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806405285096.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806405285096.html)
Or you can buy a Twitter carbon bike equipped with the EDS TX:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806230191114.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806230191114.html)
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Just saw this on AliEx and they appear to ship to the US:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806405285096.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806405285096.html)
Very bad feedback score... ???
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Thx for the vid, good to know it's not slop at least. Got a couple questions.
How far forward can the pulley arm bend? All footage I've seen has it still pointing pretty downward when in big-big, normally you'd expect it to be a bit closer to level. Looks that this would require a longer chain than usual as well.
Is it possible to use a front chainring that is bigger than 50t? The official specs say 50 max. I'd hope that's just a conservative estimation and that it is mechanically possible to fit at least a 54t.
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Very bad feedback score... ???
Not entirely bad but appears to be getting a mixed bag for customer experience. So much so like spinning The Wheel of Fortune.
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Thx for the vid, good to know it's not slop at least. Got a couple questions.
How far forward can the pulley arm bend? All footage I've seen has it still pointing pretty downward when in big-big, normally you'd expect it to be a bit closer to level. Looks that this would require a longer chain than usual as well.
Is it possible to use a front chainring that is bigger than 50t? The official specs say 50 max. I'd hope that's just a conservative estimation and that it is mechanically possible to fit at least a 54t.
(https://photos.app.goo.gl/hHqQnrSQxqCHwcjU6)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hHqQnrSQxqCHwcjU6
Its illogical to create a new technological product and be limited mechanically. I have sent WheelTop an enquiry to get this sorted out.
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(https://photos.app.goo.gl/hHqQnrSQxqCHwcjU6)
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hHqQnrSQxqCHwcjU6
Its illogical to create a new technological product and be limited mechanically. I have sent WheelTop an enquiry to get this sorted out.
Revision number 1 incoming
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I have another new finding to share about the EDS TX.
Today, I was clearing up my cabinets when I found an unsed Magene twin connector powermeter charging cable. The design looked sinisterly similar to the EDS TX singular head cable and I decided to plug them on both derailleurs with a leap of faith (similar to the time when I punched buy on TaoBao :P )
https://www.instagram.com/p/C3xsEuJyA_L/
Guess what!? It worked and the derailleurs are charged up full again. Guess I got lucky again with the new discovery. Now I can charge them at the same time with one cableset. Happy days. ;D
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As someone with a p505 base thats nice to see
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I looked at the replies on wheeltop page and somebody actually successfuly tested it with a 55t chainring and 42t cassete which is honestly really awesome to see. Now if only they had satellite/sprint shifters...
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I have another new finding to share about the EDS TX.
Today, I was clearing up my cabinets when I found an unsed Magene twin connector powermeter charging cable. The design looked sinisterly similar to the EDS TX singular head cable and I decided to plug them on both derailleurs with a leap of faith (similar to the time when I punched buy on TaoBao :P )
https://www.instagram.com/p/C3xsEuJyA_L/
Guess what!? It worked and the derailleurs are charged up full again. Guess I got lucky again with the new discovery. Now I can charge them at the same time with one cableset. Happy days. ;D
Are you in a position to compare the size of the brifters to Shimano ones? I must say this group is beginning to look very nice.
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I looked at the replies on wheeltop page and somebody actually successfuly tested it with a 55t chainring and 42t cassete which is honestly really awesome to see. Now if only they had satellite/sprint shifters...
They officially replied me that it supported up to 53T and I also pointed that they need to update the website or stand to lose more sales from this error. Good to know there are real use cases to debunk the fear.
Update: They have confirmed that 54T can be supported based on dealer update and user feedbacks. At least they are listening and have also accepted my recommendation to update their website. Happy days ahead.
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Are you in a position to compare the size of the brifters to Shimano ones? I must say this group is beginning to look very nice.
Absolutely easy to compare the size of the EDS shifters to Ultegra R8150 as I have both systems. For your information, my palm size is considered large for Asian (Medium-Large Caucasian?)
The EDS aesthetically and physically is smaller. I can get a good hand wrap around the hoods with 4 fingers space on the underside.
The Ultegra R8150 is bulkier due to the crested hoods for Di2 shift buttons on the top and has less underside space for only 3 fingers to wrap underneath.
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If you are buying the EDS TX drivetrain, I will advise buying a set of silicone shifter-end tip caps. The shifters arc outwards so the chances of getting it scraped is higher. Those inexpensive Aliexpress Shifter end caps will save you some grief when parking or if the bike tilt over at some point. ;D
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Absolutely easy to compare the size of the EDS shifters to Ultegra R8150 as I have both systems. For your information, my palm size is considered large for Asian (Medium-Large Caucasian?)
The EDS aesthetically and physically is smaller. I can get a good hand wrap around the hoods with 4 fingers space on the underside.
The Ultegra R8150 is bulkier due to the crested hoods for Di2 shift buttons on the top and has less underside space for only 3 fingers to wrap underneath.
Ah, another plus for this groupset. I have rather small hands so smaller is better.
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Have they said what dealers / users have tested as max for cassette? Anyone pushed it to 11/40?
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Have they said what dealers / users have tested as max for cassette? Anyone pushed it to 11/40?
In the reviews on the wheeltop.com product page
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I’m finally catching up to this thread—those claimed specs are amazing—if true, this group set is lighter than SRAM red AXS for equivalent parts.
The availability of a rim brake version is really nice too. I can see some old frames getting resurrected with electronic shifting.
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Absolutely easy to compare the size of the EDS shifters to Ultegra R8150 as I have both systems. For your information, my palm size is considered large for Asian (Medium-Large Caucasian?)
The EDS aesthetically and physically is smaller. I can get a good hand wrap around the hoods with 4 fingers space on the underside.
The Ultegra R8150 is bulkier due to the crested hoods for Di2 shift buttons on the top and has less underside space for only 3 fingers to wrap underneath.
That is very interesting to read. The 8150 ultegra STI grew much larger compared to the 2x11 di2 STI. Maybe for large hands this is an improvement, but for me ... not.
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The more I look into this groupset the more I'm impressed. I like that they're solely focused on electronic groupsets and nothing else. Also their website seems better suited attracting an international audience. My only concern is long term support and access to parts.
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The more I look into this groupset the more I'm impressed. I like that they're solely focused on electronic groupsets and nothing else. Also their website seems better suited attracting an international audience. My only concern is long term support and access to parts.
Well only one way to find that out isn't it? Join me in the leap of faith lol ;D
Frankly I am impressed that they actually replied to my message within the same day or less about the chainring spec issue. That aside, warranty is entirely a different monster. If your local area has no warranty, I believe a courier back to WheelTop could be necessary.
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I have the opportunity to take the new TIME bike out for my club ride. So during a break, I took a quick clip to show viewers the shifting of the EDS TX.
The test began with the big chainring shifting single gears upwards, followed by the downshift. Next I performed a shift hold upwards and downwards in a single press action resectively.
The same pattern is repeated for the small chainring BUT the system will automatically move the chain up from smallest to 3rd cog. This seems like the automatic anti-cross chain logic only in the small chainring. Otherwise the upshifts and downshifts, whether individually or press hold are very smooth.
https:/ /youtu. be / 24Eh-sQVfpQ
I really enjoyed using the EDS TX from WheelTop for its crisp shifting.
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I have the opportunity to take the new TIME bike out for my club ride. So during a break, I took a quick clip to show viewers the shifting of the EDS TX.
The test began with the big chainring shifting single gears upwards, followed by the downshift. Next I performed a shift hold upwards and downwards in a single press action resectively.
The same pattern is repeated for the small chainring BUT the system will automatically move the chain up from smallest to 3rd cog. This seems like the automatic anti-cross chain logic only in the small chainring. Otherwise the upshifts and downshifts, whether individually or press hold are very smooth.
https:/ /youtu. be / 24Eh-sQVfpQ
I really enjoyed using the EDS TX from WheelTop for its crisp shifting.
It would be more interesting to see it shifting under load ... I.E. with you on the bike and more than 200 watts being applied. Everything looks good under no torque in the bike stand.
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It would be more interesting to see it shifting under load ... I.E. with you on the bike and more than 200 watts being applied. Everything looks good under no torque in the bike stand.
I don't have that video yet other than my other short ones. Front D shifting is da bomb. Rear mech needs to be precisely calibrated - not really missed a shift so far for 3 rides. More test needed.
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I am thinking about using this groupset on an older Tarmac rim brake frame. I’d like to wait until summer to hear some longer term reports. Seeing how the Ltwoo ERX groupset initially priced around 6-700.00 now you can find it on Aliexpress for 4-450.00. (w/o batteries). I’m curious to see if the EDX comes down in price as Wheeltop increases production.
Taicho, thanks for all the honest feedback!
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It's er9 that's under 500€ er9 is still around 600+ and it's possible these price reductions are to get as many out the door before they release a final, hopefully fixed, product.
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Gotcha. I think I read that somewhere but part of me was hopeful that the groupsets would come down around the 500.00 mark.
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In the EU you can get the Rival AXS shifters, FD, RD and 2 batteries with charger for about 850€. So it will have to be considerably cheaper than that before I would take the risk of being without a bike for a month or so because something fails and I can't get a spare part...
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That’s my line of thinking too. 2 weeks ago I priced out individual parts for a 12spd Ultegra mini group (w/o crankset, chain or cassette) at about 1000.00. That was looking across several different websites and looking for sales.
On Aliexpress I found 105 Di2 for 8-850.00
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That’s my line of thinking too. 2 weeks ago I priced out individual parts for a 12spd Ultegra mini group (w/o crankset, chain or cassette) at about 1000.00. That was looking across several different websites and looking for sales.
On Aliexpress I found 105 Di2 for 8-850.00
Agree. I'm seeing around $900 USD for a complete 105 di2 groupset shipped. I really cant see the value proposition for EDS road at the current stated price of about $700 EUR. Essentially equal in price since im sure you could sell the 105 crank and cassette locally for $150-200. There would only be a few reasons i can see for buying it: Wanting to use it on a 10/11/13 speed cassette, looking for lighter weight, want true wireless, or want for rim brake.
I was initially thinking about getting this after longer term reviews came in this summer/fall but only if the cost comes down to about $500USD. Any higher then that and I will go with 105 di2 after this cycling season
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I asked wheeltop about this (early March 2024) and they said that due to distribution and patent issues the EDS TX group is currently only available in Europe. There's a list of places they ship to, but not the United States or Canada at the moment.
I'm trying to retrofit an electronic system onto a rim-brake frame with Shimano cassette so if I could get it this groupset would be a perfect solution for me.
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Unfortunate that they are unable to sell to Canada. I was looking forward to getting my hands on a set.
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https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4PYwLTLRho/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
He's apparently also got an electronic group from sensah in testing
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If I buy one I'll probably wait for the alu version. Not worth paying for carbon one at launch prices imo
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Less than $1300 USD w/free shipping with a Wheeltop EDS TX equipped carbon bike seems like a pretty good deal. Is there any bikes that are 105 Di2 or SRAM AXS for that price point?
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806309666933.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806309666933.html)
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Does anyone know if this type of material is cheaper in Malaysia? I am going there in a couple of months and was thinking about bringing a groups from there if it was much cheaper.
Because of a potential tax free or so. Either this or an ltwoo er9
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https://cyclistation.com/wheeltop/
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I ordered the Wheeltop EDS TX hydraulic carbon kit today during the Aliexpress Anniversary sale. With coupon, coins, and discounts, paid $623 USD. Last time I looked the EZreal Outdoor Store has 5 kits left. (10 were listed when I purchased mine this morning.)
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Came so close to pulling the trigger on one of those from the same retailer. I will wait till mid-summer or early fall and pick one of the rim brake sets up after there are more end user reviews.
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Does anyone know, which type of needles and olive the EDS TX uses? Their website says that these parts are proprietary, but on video, they look very similar to sram or magura.
Or if they are really incompatible with already existed models, where can I get a spare? A quick search on aliexpress showed nothing.
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WheelTop EDS TX alloy version appears to be available on AliExpress at a lower price point:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806495696389.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806495696389.html)
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WheelTop EDS TX alloy version appears to be available on AliExpress at a lower price point:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806495696389.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806495696389.html)
Very nice, but just 30$ less is imho not really a lower price point, when you take in consideration that the LTWOO alloy to carbon gap is at around 130$
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Came so close to pulling the trigger on one of those from the same retailer. I will wait till mid-summer or early fall and pick one of the rim brake sets up after there are more end user reviews.
That's my strategy too - once a few more are in end users' hands and there's some real-world feedback I might consider the rim brake version on a spare bike.
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Delays on the aluminium rim-brake version to July 2024:
https://twitter.com/wheeltopjapan/status/1770967843984773405
[Notice and Apology of Delivery Delay]
There will be a delay in the delivery of the aluminum grade TX-RA6100, which is compatible with wire pull brakes, in the EDS TX series.
▼ Applicable products
TX-RA6100
▼ Scheduled release date
July 2024
▼ Reason for delay: Due to production adjustments due to the sudden increase in demand for EDS worldwide.
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I had a crash 2 weeks ago when my front tire tube blew in a turning maneouvre which resulted in a slide out and threw me off the bike. The EDS survived with some scratches to the shifter body, lever blades are intact. I used 600 sandpaper to file out the rough edges and a black permanent marker sealed the deal. Now it looks inconspicuous unless up close.
The most important thing is the shifting is still bang on for my 50/34 - 11/30 set up. This EDS TX is indeed tough.
https://youtu. be/eLID1SvW-9Q
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WheelTop EDS TX alloy version appears to be available on AliExpress at a lower price point:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806495696389.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806495696389.html)
Thanks. Pulled the trigger on the Alu with $80 off coupon from AliExpress anniversary sale. $80 off made it too hard to pass up. If Carbon was in stock I would have opted for that.
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Wheeltop is already present in local shows in JPN and they made their way into larger shops like Uemura cycling.
https://uemura-cycle.com/products/list.php?mode=search&search_category_id=47&search_maker_id=583
EDS TX-RA7000 for 128700 JPY
https://uemura-cycle.com/products/detail.php?product_id=91363
A 105 Di2 R7170 as full group is 170000JPY, while a mechanical 105 92000JPY
https://uemura-cycle.com/products/detail.php?product_id=84500
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Anyone knows how the Wheeltop EDS TX compares to the recently released L-TWOO eRX electronic groupset? I've seen some quality issues with the L-Twoo from the GCN Performance and TraceVelo Youtube channels. I assume the Wheeltop unit will be similar given how new it is to the market.
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All 4 of my EDS OX derailleurs have the removable batteries. To date, the removable batteries last a long time, over 600 miles of riding for me with lots of shifting.
OTOH: Weird things have been happening. Yesterday, I went out on a snow ride on a bike I haven't ridden it about a month. The bike was shifting OK, but I though that I would swap to a charged battery to be sure that the battery on the bike might be low on charge. I swapped to a supposedly fully charged battery. It wouldn't shift. No lights. Swapped to another battery. This battery didn't shift the derailleur either. Put the original one back one and rode, leaving the other 2 on their chargers. Then swapped one of the freshly charged battery onto the derailleur and it worked. Now I am wondering why 2 fully charged batteries were drained of power after sitting around on a shelf for a month after last being charged.
Regarding the fixed battery. I am sure you can put a routine in place where you use your Wheeltop app on your phone to check the % charge / # of shifts left. If you see the battery is below your charge comfort level, you can top it off.
I wonder too, if the magnetic charging cable charges the battery while the derailleur is in operation. One could secure the charge cable to the frame and use a battery bank to charge the battery while riding. (Anyone test this?)
Issue for me would be that batteries eventually die which would render the whole derailleur useless. I'm surprised nobody has used something like a 18650 cylinder battery. Slap a waterproof case in the down tube and put a charge port on the derailleur. Battery (or batteries) die, you go grab another one on Amazon or whatever. This is a deal breaker for me
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Issue for me would be that batteries eventually die which would render the whole derailleur useless. I'm surprised nobody has used something like a 18650 cylinder battery. Slap a waterproof case in the down tube and put a charge port on the derailleur. Battery (or batteries) die, you go grab another one on Amazon or whatever. This is a deal breaker for me
This is exactly what LTWOO does?
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Batterries are replaceable
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Issue for me would be that batteries eventually die which would render the whole derailleur useless.
From my perspective, worrying about a dead battery is a non-issue.
1. The fixed batteries on the new generation EDS derailleurs can be removed and replaced.
2. When the battery pack fails, purchase a replacement. (As long as the derailleur/s are for sale, and perhaps for many years after production stops, a replacement battery pack will be available.)
3. For other products that I have purchased, where I could no longer get a replacement battery pack, I have carefully opened the battery pack. In in every case, the battery pack used common and readily available rechargeable battery sizes.
4. If by chance, I haven't worn out the mechanical part of the derailleur by the time I can't get a replacement battery, then I would make my own battery pack to keep the the derailleur running.
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https://youtu.be/dWOPmujnCKY
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He suggests that wheeltop might have bought(?) the patent licenses from shimano for auto-trim, flatmount brake caliper, and I think also the battery LED indicator that ltwoo had to cover (ridiculous!). I hope that is not the reason for the "steep"(er) price.
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I doubt they did, these patents are probably the reason they're not selling in the usa
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Regardless of patents, it should be easy enough to buy it from 3rd party resellers on AliExpress. I already see one.
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It is interesting to note that SRAMs original wireless shifting patent .: US 2014/0102237 A1, expires on April 17th 2024. Other Patents associated with electronic controller shifters filed by Shimano and SRAM have also been expiring. I haven't read through all of SRAM's more recent patents, but what often happens is that companies file new claims to try to extend existing patents that are running out in order to try to block other competitors from using designs that are no longer patent protected. It is possible that Wheeltop has a viable design that is legal and does not impinge on any current patents. This might be why the timing of their OX and TX systems have been just recently released. Perhaps they will start selling in the USA once a few more of the patents they infringe opon expire.
Keep in mind that utility patents are good for 15 years, and design patents 20 years here in the USA.
Bluetooth and ANT communication standards are now over 20 years old, so Wheeltop can use these standards for a wireless method for their wireless communications. Wheeltop's challenge is how to minimize battery usage, (sleep and wake up signals) that were in SRAM's wireless patent that expires in April.
Edit: I believe that a "fixed battery" on a derailleur patent has expired too. But a removable battery is still covered under a newer SRAM patent.
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Video fro GC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtqJ3u0aqW0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtqJ3u0aqW0)
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Now it seems WheelTop is upping their game with reviews through Trace Velo and GC Performance. People will tend to listen to these influencers on Youtube.
I tried my best to bring up the product at the start of my journey. Guess its over to these big hitters now ;)
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I was an early adopter of Micro Shift when they first showed their products at Interbike. How many years has it taken Microshift to become mainstream in the USA? 15 years?
I see a similar path for WheelTop. Unless WheelTop is able to get the backing of one of the 5 largest bicycle companies, they will have a long slow growth curve ahead of them. Despite "Influencers" reviewing the EDS TX, there will be a long road for them to travel before they make any sales impact on the big boys. We, who are part of Chinertown are on the fringe of component testing and consumption. Last time I checked, perhaps 5+% max (very generous estimate) of bicyclists spec and assembly their own bicycles. Seeing "Twitter" brand of bicycles using WheelTop kits is probably the best approach they can take.
I have been running my EDS OX system on one bike for over a year now and love it! I put EDS OX on 2 more bikes and to date they all work fantastic!
I can't wait for my EDS TX disc order to arrive. I am sure it will be every bid as good, or better, than the EDS OX.
Here in the USA, new Chinese bicycle products have to fight the same old battle.
- Yuck, It is made in China
- Made in china will be poor quality and fail quickly unless quality is controlled by one of the main bicycle companies.
- How and where do I get it serviced?
- Is there a warranty? Wait, it costs more to send it back to China than it cost new even if the warranty is good.
- On and on go the excuses not to purchase independent Chinese products.
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I was an early adopter of Micro Shift when they first showed their products at Interbike. How many years has it taken Microshift to become mainstream in the USA? 15 years?
I see a similar path for WheelTop. Unless WheelTop is able to get the backing of one of the 5 largest bicycle companies, they will have a long slow growth curve ahead of them. Despite "Influencers" reviewing the EDS TX, there will be a long road for them to travel before they make any sales impact on the big boys. We, who are part of Chinertown are on the fringe of component testing and consumption. Last time I checked, perhaps 5+% max (very generous estimate) of bicyclists spec and assembly their own bicycles. Seeing "Twitter" brand of bicycles using WheelTop kits is probably the best approach they can take.
I have been running my EDS OX system on one bike for over a year now and love it! I put EDS OX on 2 more bikes and to date they all work fantastic!
I can't wait for my EDS TX disc order to arrive. I am sure it will be every bid as good, or better, than the EDS OX.
Here in the USA, new Chinese bicycle products have to fight the same old battle.
- Yuck, It is made in China
- Made in china will be poor quality and fail quickly unless quality is controlled by one of the main bicycle companies.
- How and where do I get it serviced?
- Is there a warranty? Wait, it costs more to send it back to China than it cost new even if the warranty is good.
- On and on go the excuses not to purchase independent Chinese products.
The last 3 questions are legitimate, how do you overcome them?
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I think they are OK with being fringe as long as they can make some money. Seems like Chinertown type brands don't need OEM volume to stay in business.
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The last 3 questions are legitimate, how do you overcome them?
You DIY and presume there is no warranty like on most Aliexpress stuff...
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This reminds me of the book factfulness by Hans Rosling.
China used to make garbage using child labor. But that was decades ago. Most people (and I mean the vast majority of people) pretty much still assume it's true to this day. Except it isn't. China has long moved forward. In fact their industrial policy has been extremely successful. They also ran out of children, mostly, the population is now ageing AND in absolute decline, which is pushing costs up a lot.
Just looking at bikes, they've been OEM manufacturers for pretty much everything for eons, and they started to innovate, with carbon spokes for example. If you want custom built super wide rims with carbon spokes, you can get them from at least 5 chinese factories, but not from Zipp, and Campagnolo has become a running joke more than anything. The software on LTWOO groupsets is better than Shimano Sram (ability to change the number of gears, gear protection). I've helped develop a new gravel frame, it took them weeks to produce a mold and a prototype for me to ride. And this year you can buy a frame from lightcarbon that weighs 910g, which is the same weight as a Look 795 blade RS 2024... In fact Look's fork is heavier by 35g...
So if it took 15y for a Chinese brand to go from A to B doesnt mean it will take them another 15y to go from B to C. Things tend to accelerate.
It's tragic in a way, because in the west we barely make stuff anymore, everybody's become a life coach or a therapist (there's also a nice book on "bullshit jobs"), everybody's become super expensive with zero real skills. Applied to Cycling, it's the farce of "paying for R&D" which really means inflated staff doing god knows what, and paying for pro cycling teams.
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Couldn't have said it better
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I don't think the question is around the quality of Chinese bike parts; anyone who knows anything about how and where high end bikes are made already knows this.
The hurdle is in the purchasing process. Most people don't want to go on an Aliexpress wild goose chase w/no warranty coverage. Even more streamlined direct to consumer stuff like Winspace and Yoeleo is still kind of fringe. So if the Chinese want to really have a presence in the mainstream Western bike market they need brick and mortar stores with no nonsense warranty coverage. That would really accelerate the price war with the major brands though, especially if the Chinese stuff is in the same stores.
But again I feel like Chinese brands are OK with their current direct to consumer model. They pass on the risk to brands they sell to as OEMs as well as to us consumers. Look at all the pain and agony the Western brands are going through right now.
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I dont buy my bikes on aliexpress and i've had several warranty issues / goodwill instances when my counterparts did the right thing. I've had 2 or 3 warranty / crash claims with Farsports, i've had velobuild send me their updated C rings free of charge, i've received wheels that were centerlock after ordering 6 bolt and received adaptors free of charge. I've had a derailleur replaced free of charge & received a bunch of freebies.
Long story short, there's more to dealing with chinese counterparts than aliexpress & assuming no warranty coverage. I'm the highest tier on aliexpress and usually (not always) they are helpful. I had a bad experience with Alibaba, they clearly gave no F about me, that was disappointing, but i'm not going to cry about it, after all they were sticking to their T&Cs.
In fact 2 weeks ago i ordered via aliexpress a replacement crank arm for cheap. I shouldn't have paid for it, but this seller is a dick and i'll do my best not to work with them again. Either way it should save my ass for cheap enough.
I guess my point is: build relationships with sellers you learn to trust. It's so much easier than it used to be to have clear discussions with them. Either they speak decent english now, or they use translation software that actually works. It used to be an uphill battle to make yourself understood. Now i feel i can ask very detailed questions and i usually get spot on answers.
Last: the vast majority of people still assume that if it's unbranded and chinese, it's poor quality. I have friends who to this day will not use an unbranded chinese bike out of fear of death. Sadly (?), some of them are actually highly educated people with engineering degrees placing them in the 0.01% of the population. Others are just Luddites. Which ties back to Factfulness, in fact.
Most of this forum exists to navigate issues around oval holes, unfaced brake mount surfaces, out of tolerance interfaces, and structural integrity of parts. Together, usually referred to as QC. Aka, quality... Aka, who to order from to minimize the chances of ordering a dud.
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I once had an Xcadey PM die on me shortly after arrival. I spoke to the seller on aliexpress, made prove with videos and pictures. He sent me a new one without costs.
Another time I've had a set of replica wheels being held at customs, one of the biggest sellers on aliexpress send me another pair.
Not all those sellers are bad but indeed build relations with people and be gentle with them.
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In my large US city, I go on a few group rides and barely anyone builds their own bikes. I don't even think road cycling is growing in the US. Who wants to see a bunch of dentists doing a crit race around a business park? Also young people can't afford any of the mainstream bikes and/or associated gear. They have other things to worry about like cost of living! I was covering a fairly large road bike event a month ago and the majority of riders were in the older demographic with disposable income. Those people have better things to do instead of learning bike maintenance and will just pay an LBS to do the work.
I think LTwoo and Wheeltop will see more growth marketing in Asia. Road cycling appears to be growing there and it's probably why Shimano has been expanding factories especially in SE Asia.
https://www.agenzianova.com/en/news/Shimano-opens-a-factory-in-Singapore-to-increase-sales-in-South-East-Asia (https://www.agenzianova.com/en/news/Shimano-opens-a-factory-in-Singapore-to-increase-sales-in-South-East-Asia)
The only potential growth I see in the US market is gravel. I could see LTwoo EGR doing well and they'd be smart to equip a few riders at events like UNBOUND gravel. If Wheeltop did a gravel groupset I think they could compete well against SRAM AXS XPLR.
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I dont buy my bikes on aliexpress and i've had several warranty issues / goodwill instances when my counterparts did the right thing. I've had 2 or 3 warranty / crash claims with Farsports, i've had velobuild send me their updated C rings free of charge, i've received wheels that were centerlock after ordering 6 bolt and received adaptors free of charge. I've had a derailleur replaced free of charge & received a bunch of freebies.
Long story short, there's more to dealing with chinese counterparts than aliexpress & assuming no warranty coverage. I'm the highest tier on aliexpress and usually (not always) they are helpful. I had a bad experience with Alibaba, they clearly gave no F about me, that was disappointing, but i'm not going to cry about it, after all they were sticking to their T&Cs.
In fact 2 weeks ago i ordered via aliexpress a replacement crank arm for cheap. I shouldn't have paid for it, but this seller is a dick and i'll do my best not to work with them again. Either way it should save my ass for cheap enough.
I guess my point is: build relationships with sellers you learn to trust. It's so much easier than it used to be to have clear discussions with them. Either they speak decent english now, or they use translation software that actually works. It used to be an uphill battle to make yourself understood. Now i feel i can ask very detailed questions and i usually get spot on answers.
Last: the vast majority of people still assume that if it's unbranded and chinese, it's poor quality. I have friends who to this day will not use an unbranded chinese bike out of fear of death. Sadly (?), some of them are actually highly educated people with engineering degrees placing them in the 0.01% of the population. Others are just Luddites. Which ties back to Factfulness, in fact.
Most of this forum exists to navigate issues around oval holes, unfaced brake mount surfaces, out of tolerance interfaces, and structural integrity of parts. Together, usually referred to as QC. Aka, quality... Aka, who to order from to minimize the chances of ordering a dud.
You're still kind of missing my point. Most people don't want to do all this research and build relationships with online vendors and all that. They just want to see and touch a bike, buy it and ride it. So if you want people to get more familiar and comfortable with Chinese brands, Chinese brands have to sell the same way as the big boys.
Personally I am not bothered if someone who knows nothing about Chinese brands thinks they are low quality death traps. It's not my job to educate strangers. I build bikes for myself, not to impress and educate random people.
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I asked wheeltop about this (early March 2024) and they said that due to distribution and patent issues the EDS TX group is currently only available in Europe. There's a list of places they ship to, but not the United States or Canada at the moment.
I'm trying to retrofit an electronic system onto a rim-brake frame with Shimano cassette so if I could get it this groupset would be a perfect solution for me.
I bought a set (rim brake) from...elsewhere, since Wheeltop doesn't sell to where I am. I have two edx ox sets (older, removable batteries) that have seen some abuse off road and that recommended eds tx to me. I don't worry too much about being able to return parts -- in over 30 years of cycling, the stuff I've had fail has been less "I need to return it to get it warrantied and back on the bike" and more "this has failed in a way that reveals it sucks and I don't want it anymore". But to me that's the downside: no way is anyone servicing this stuff, and I had to order from a place that seemed legit but who knows. And, you have to work through figuring it out for yourself. I used this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWOPmujnCKY
Have used various MTB grouops, Shimano (Ultegra and DA, including Di2, Campy (couple generations of mechanical Chorus), and Sram (lately Force wireless, mech groups before that). Using those as a reference, this group feels solid and well made. The shifting is snappy, spot on. It's probably not quite as fast as Di2 but rear is faster than Force. Front shifting puts SRAM to shame and is much easier than SRAM to set up besides (I'm running Ultegra cassette, chain, cranks). Setup is easy (basically the video above, plus limit screws). The hoods are well shaped and offer some comfortable hand positions. Battery sat around for a week, fiddled around for a long time installing/tuning/test riding, then went for a 3.5 hour ride and it reports 95% remaining in front and 80% remaining in rear. I swapped the buttons for rear shifting because it felt more correct to have the big paddle shift to a harder gear (SRAM righthand functionality I'm used to) and this was easily done on the road with the app. Buttons are a little stiffer than SRAM or Shimano but worked well enough in long-finger gloves.
So far so good. I'm hoping this gets me a few more years on a frame/fork/wheels that are fine, just a little out of date.
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Thanks for the feedback. I’m going to be a little more patient but I did find an online retailer that will ship to my country for about 650.00 for the rim brake set. I have an older Tarmac that I use for travel and training. It works perfectly fine with R7000 but I would love to update it to EDS just as an exercise in pure vanity…
At 650.00 for a rim brake upgrade, I’m hesitant until there are more end user reviews. If it was in the 500.00 range I probably would have already bought it.
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Wait a few months for aluiminium rim brake version to come out. They delayed it to adjust the manufacturing processes because demand was higher than expected
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My EDS TX order arrived today. 4 days later than the guaranteed delivery date. (I received a link to the 1 dollar coupon. As usual there is an error trying to actually collect the coupon.) The items in the 2 boxes are very well packaged. I can't wait to start playing with the derailleurs. I am charging the derailleur batteries.
I downloaded the new EDS APP, installed it and opened it. I looks just like my old App and my other 4 EDS OX derailleurs show up.
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Rim brake versions are starting to show on AliExpress again. Yesterday I almost bought one, had in my cart with taxes and free shipping to the US. Held off, went back today and now both sellers will no longer ship to the US…
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Yeah noticed that too. All in all just two stores selling EDS TX and they won't (now) ship to the states.
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I must be lucky/special.
Has anyone written the 2 sellers and asked why they can't/wont sell to customers in the USA? Since one of them sold one to me, perhaps they can be convinced to ship to the USA.
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About the supposed 40T clearance, has someone tried and done it firsthand or is it just a rumor now?
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I must be lucky/special.
Has anyone written the 2 sellers and asked why they can't/wont sell to customers in the USA? Since one of them sold one to me, perhaps they can be convinced to ship to the USA.
Based on youtube videos i've seen, L-TWOO has removed features that were patent pending. The auto trim is one that comes to mind. But Wheeltop seems to be much more reckless about that (I think with Sram related features especially, I think?). I'm not interested in that group so havent been paying close attention, but that's the impression i got. And the US is the land of lawsuits. And US cyclists keep complaining that road cycling is dying there, vs Asia is on the rise, and Europe is its birth place. And Sram is affordable in the US, while it's not in Europe.
So that's my 5 cents.
What i dont understand is why these channels are touting wheeltop electronic as the di2 killer when it's worse than l-twoo's erx in more ways than 1 (worse app, no garmin integration just to name two), and the er9/erx just works great, and having installed 5 and used 2, it feels premium alright (the rubber on the hoods for example, is great).
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Help me understand please, is the new road groupset from Wheeltop (EDS TX) that's shipping at the moment a pre-production model? Or, is this a finalized product that's expected to be reliable? Considering whether I should buy one now or wait until a "2.0" version, similar to what L-Twoo ERX is about to release.
Video: NEW! L-TWOO eRX Blue Edition: What's new? Did they finally fix the issues?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq-Jat7ZmGQ&t=55s
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Based on youtube videos i've seen, L-TWOO has removed features that were patent pending. The auto trim is one that comes to mind. But Wheeltop seems to be much more reckless about that (I think with Sram related features especially, I think?). I'm not interested in that group so havent been paying close attention, but that's the impression i got. And the US is the land of lawsuits. And US cyclists keep complaining that road cycling is dying there, vs Asia is on the rise, and Europe is its birth place. And Sram is affordable in the US, while it's not in Europe.
So that's my 5 cents.
What i dont understand is why these channels are touting wheeltop electronic as the di2 killer when it's worse than l-twoo's erx in more ways than 1 (worse app, no garmin integration just to name two), and the er9/erx just works great, and having installed 5 and used 2, it feels premium alright (the rubber on the hoods for example, is great).
I don’t disagree with your comments at all. The only reason the EDS is mildly interesting to me is the ability to upgrade a good, older rim brake bike for 5-600.00 USD. I agree both Di2 and SRAM prices are coming down. If I was going to do a new build I’d opt for either of those two groups.
Hearing positive reviews of the Ltwoo groupset is reassuring, especially bow that folks are identifying some of the bugs. ERX or ER9 might be an option down the road for a true budget build.
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What i dont understand is why these channels are touting wheeltop electronic as the di2 killer when it's worse than l-twoo's erx in more ways than 1 (worse app, no garmin integration just to name two), and the er9/erx just works great, and having installed 5 and used 2, it feels premium alright (the rubber on the hoods for example, is great).
I don't know much about either of the brands but hasn't Wheeltop been around for a while? Especially with their MTB-focus groupset that has been getting good reviews.
Also, I would expect them to have bike computer compatibility through an update, eventually.
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Wheeltop have computer connectivity,it's the computer manufacturers that need to implement it in their devices.
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Has anyone written the 2 sellers and asked why they can't/wont sell to customers in the USA? Since one of them sold one to me, perhaps they can be convinced to ship to the USA.
I did to one, they didn't say why they cannot ship but if one really wants it they will send it. The reply from seller:
If you need it? We can send it to you via a special link.
I have asked for that special link but yet to hear back. Something tells me its not going to be Aliexpress product link, lets see.
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The only other place outside of Aliexpress I have found is, IceBikeHeaven.com. With shipping from Maylasia to the US it was around 680-700.00. I’m skeptical because on their Ebay store they sell the same set for around 900.00 USD.
I’m with Toxin on this, just wait until summer or fall when they’ve had a chance to increase production. Maybe prices will come down a little and there will be more long term reports on it.
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Help me understand please, is the new road groupset from Wheeltop (EDS TX) that's shipping at the moment a pre-production model? Or, is this a finalized product that's expected to be reliable? Considering whether I should buy one now or wait until a "2.0" version, similar to what L-Twoo ERX is about to release.
The EDS TX kit I received is 100% full production. My first impression is that this is a very well designed product and at least is somewhere between XT and XTR product quality. (I haven't weighed parts yet.)
I am stripping down my gravel bike and cleaning it and hope to start installing the EDS TX kit later today.
I downloaded the app through the QR code supplied in the kit. I was worried at first because my other 4 EDS OX derailleurs showed up right away when I opened the App. I woke up the front and rear derailleurs, and then the App immediately recognized the front and rear derailleurs. The app works the same as the OX rear derailleur, except, now I have 5 rear derailleurs and one front showing up in the App.
If the EDS TX kit works as close to how my first EDS OX has worked to date, I will be very very pleased.
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WheelTop EDS TX alloy version appears to be available on AliExpress at a lower price point:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806495696389.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806495696389.html)
This place is still selling and shipping. Got new stock but prices have increased.
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i should have gotten the rim brake version when it was just CAD 500++ during the Anniversary sale with coupons
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I really wish they'd included auxilliary buttons on this. Though I'm sure if an app is made, long presses or whatever could control Garmins pages.
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The rim brake version is back on with free shipping to USA. Rates have increased though. Not sure what's going on there.
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High deman -> price goes up
Capitalism, baby
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Wasn't wondering about the price. It was about the shipping to USA.
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Yeah, price has been increasing due to the demand. Regarding shipping, I had to msg the seller through the app. They were able to turn on shipping to the US. I didn’t order because of the price increase. Seems to be an issue with their software. Yesterday, I could put in my cart and get shipping. Today, the shipping restriction is back on.
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My EDS TX Disc kit is up and running on my gravel bike. I put on 40 miles today, 15 on single track / trails. Positives: 1. Smoothness and crisp shifting. 2. I was able to remove .6 lbs off the bike installing the Wheeltop kit along with a 12 speed ZTTO lightweight cassette and ZTTO hollow pin chain.
Minor issues: 1. I wore long finger cycling gloves. This made it more difficult to shift the small paddle. I had a few shifts where I hit both paddles at the same time. This appears to confuse the derailleur where it shifts up then down or down up depending on which paddle was hit first. 2. It literally took me 2 hours to get the rear cassette cogs trimmed to be smooth on both the small and large front rings. I would trim all the cassette cogs in the small ring, then shift to the large ring and many of the them would not run smooth. I had to iterate trim adjustments running large and small chain rings. (My EDS OX rear derailleurs all adjusted very quickly.)
During this process, I gradually adjusted the body-angle screw until I found the sweet spot on all the cassette cogs in both the small and large front rings.
Thumbs up for the Wheeltop EDS TX Disc.
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Well thats ore of a cassette problem than a derrailleur problem
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My experience with ultralight chinese cassettes is that they're not durable, and the shifting is never as smooth as say a 105 cassette. If it's even more lightweight than say a dura-ace one, there's serious stuff being compromised IMO.
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I would make sure the derailleur hanger is straight using an alignment tool. Whenever cassette shifting is off, that's one of the first things I check.
My new lightweight Goldix 12 speed cassette has been working great for me. It weighs significantly less than any Shimano 11-34t on the market.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806211333567.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806211333567.html)
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Oh they usually shift well enough, but with the increased tension of a clutch on a GRX derailleur I've had mixed results, whereas a cheap 105 cassette still shifts perfectly well on the same derailleur and with or without clutch. It can't be the derailleur when this variable is consistent between the two cassettes. Also I've noticed that in salty winter rides in Canada they tend to rust a lot quicker than Shimano cassettes. For dry weather they might be alright but anything wet/muddy they'll wear down very quickly.
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2 months since I built my EDS TX on the TIME ADH2023. I must say it is pretty reliable so far and even survived a crash and worked normally.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/C3eBr7kYWqfZSCwF8
The discussion on those lightweight Chinese cassettes do hold water as shifting is not as crisp as a Shimano cassette. Nevertheless at their current pricepoint, they are really irresistable buys with the amazing lightness. I am currently using the Zitto 11T-30T (12s) and there will always be a gear that will be tad bit off after a few rides. Not sure why but a quick tweak with the variable gear setting sorted that out.
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I ran the Sunshine then the ZTTO ultra-light-weight cassettes on my gravel bike. I have worn out the middle cogs on 2 of them in about 10K miles of riding. Now I am running a ZTTO ultralight XD 12-speed, 10-36 cassette with the EDS TX system. Time will tell how the ZTTO aluminum cassette will hold up.
I read that many people bite the bullet and purchase 3 chains to run on these cassettes. They rotate/swap out the chains with each other about every 1000 to 1500 miles. They say this makes the cassettes last much longer, because you run less stretched chains and swap these out, it increases the longevity of the cassette versus running only one chain, and as this chain stretches, it wears out the aluminum teeth faster.
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Has anyone consider going down in cassette speed instead of going up? For example Shimano XT 11-34/36t cassettes are on par with Ultegra, are cheaper and weigh less than the 11/12 speed equivalents. Now that the Wheeltop EDS TX and ER9/X can go 7-13 speeds there are more options to choose from.
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I ran the Sunshine then the ZTTO ultra-light-weight cassettes on my gravel bike. I have worn out the middle cogs on 2 of them in about 10K miles of riding. Now I am running a ZTTO ultralight XD 12-speed, 10-36 cassette with the EDS TX system. Time will tell how the ZTTO aluminum cassette will hold up.
I read that many people bite the bullet and purchase 3 chains to run on these cassettes. They rotate/swap out the chains with each other about every 1000 to 1500 miles. They say this makes the cassettes last much longer, because you run less stretched chains and swap these out, it increases the longevity of the cassette versus running only one chain, and as this chain stretches, it wears out the aluminum teeth faster.
Waxed drivetrains?
Has anyone consider going down in cassette speed instead of going up? For example Shimano XT 11-34/36t cassettes are on par with Ultegra, are cheaper and weigh less than the 11/12 speed equivalents. Now that the Wheeltop EDS TX and ER9/X can go 7-13 speeds there are more options to choose from.
I'm running 11s 11-34 & 11-36; when i ordered last year, 12s ultralight maxed out at 11-32. It's amazing to have the option to change the # of gears on the er9. I run chinese ultra light cassettes, with waxed chains & properly indexed gears, they're amazing.
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Waxed drivetrains?
I'm running 11s 11-34 & 11-36; when i ordered last year, 12s ultralight maxed out at 11-32. It's amazing to have the option to change the # of gears on the er9. I run chinese ultra light cassettes, with waxed chains & properly indexed gears, they're amazing.
Immersive waxing is definitely key with these ultra lightweight cassettes. I think they were designed with waxed chains in mind.
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Yes, I wax regularly. I have been for years. Immersive and applied onto chain in liquid form.
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Would anyone be interested in a brand new never used take off eds tx groupset?
Has been installed on bike then removed, without boxes and the hydraulic cables have been cut
Sorry if im not allowed to post this here. Let me know i can delete
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You should say where you are, not everyone here is in the US. And you should probably post in the sales section as well. You'll find a buyer here for sure. You also need to state a price :)
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Thanks!
Just posted in sale section with info and pictures. $580 shipped
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Just got mine. Didn't appreciate the black debris all over the plastic wrap getting on my fingers when unpackaging. I'm assuming its debris from the foam cutouts or whatever machine did it.
Anyway, happy to have it now. Right shifter buttons I'm unsure about. Will see how it feels after being charged up and I can play with it. Also charging rear derailleur, not being installed, I needed to place a pencil to keep it open a bit otherwise it pushes the magnetic charge head off the connections.
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what kind of hardware comes with the group? ltwoo er9 comes with well over a dozen different bolts for the brakes, as well as 140 & 160 adaptors for both front and rear. In contrast it seems that shimano really skimps on hardware, which i find so incredibly $hitty of them.
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Linsook. Welcome to the club. Weather permitting, I will start riding my gravel bike 100+miles a week. Get yours going soon, so we can collect data, present it, and show those ltwoo er9 owners that Wheeltop has the better product! ;D
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Linsook. Welcome to the club. Weather permitting, I will start riding my gravel bike 100+miles a week. Get yours going soon, so we can collect data, present it, and show those ltwoo er9 owners that Wheeltop has the better product! ;D
;D sounds like a plan
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what kind of hardware comes with the group? ltwoo er9 comes with well over a dozen different bolts for the brakes, as well as 140 & 160 adaptors for both front and rear. In contrast it seems that shimano really skimps on hardware, which i find so incredibly $hitty of them.
Enough to screw the caliper to adapter and adapter to frame No spares.
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Today i saw this Twitter bikes catalogue, interesting that full carbon bike with wheeltop eds tx costs 950 USD, I wonder how much a wheeltop costs for a factory.
Rival upgrade kit I can find for around 1000 USD, 1525 - 905 = 620 USD difference between rival and eds versions, so 1000 - 620 = 380 USD for eds? Maybe lower, because rival also has a wholesale price.
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This would be great if enthusiasts here in the USA had access to the bikes listed in the catalog sheet you posted. Twitter USA does no have any offerings with EDS on them. Perhaps this catalog sheet is for other English speaking countries and the USD is just for reference, or autofilled in the price boxes. (Just guessing)
On Aliexpress, there are complete Twitter EDS bikes starting around $1500 up to about $4K. Appears to still be a decent deal, but the overall weight of these bikes are heavier, by pounds, versus what I ride.
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Today i saw this Twitter bikes catalogue, interesting that full carbon bike with wheeltop eds tx costs 950 USD, I wonder how much a wheeltop costs for a factory.
Rival upgrade kit I can find for around 1000 USD, 1525 - 905 = 620 USD difference between rival and eds versions, so 1000 - 620 = 380 USD for eds? Maybe lower, because rival also has a wholesale price.
I am interested in this groupset and was about a new aero frame. So complete bike at competitive price fits with my idea of both, as a bike and spare parts.
Do you have a contact?
Thanks a lot for your post and help!!
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I am interested in this groupset and was about a new aero frame. So complete bike at competitive price fits with my idea of both, as a bike and spare parts.
Do you have a contact?
Thanks a lot for your post and help!!
I saw this bike on aliexpress, but price was not so good, also saw this https://28goods.com/products/twitter-r12-pro-disc-brake-with-wheeltop-eds
And this twitter r15 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256806382207768.html
I know, that people buy this bikes directly from factory, or maybe from alibaba, but don't know how.
This would be great if enthusiasts here in the USA had access to the bikes listed in the catalog sheet you posted. Twitter USA does no have any offerings with EDS on them. Perhaps this catalog sheet is for other English speaking countries and the USD is just for reference, or autofilled in the price boxes. (Just guessing)
On Aliexpress, there are complete Twitter EDS bikes starting around $1500 up to about $4K. Appears to still be a decent deal, but the overall weight of these bikes are heavier, by pounds, versus what I ride.
I know that this prices are actual for Easter Europe, and people buy at this price. I think, that the prices in USD is only for convenience, I saw prices in CNY, and they are almost the same.
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I saw this bike on aliexpress, but price was not so good, also saw this https://28goods.com/products/twitter-r12-pro-disc-brake-with-wheeltop-eds
And this twitter r15 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3256806382207768.html
I know, that people buy this bikes directly from factory, or maybe from alibaba, but don't know how.
I know that this prices are actual for Easter Europe, and people buy at this price. I think, that the prices in USD is only for convenience, I saw prices in CNY, and they are almost the same.
Twitter R12 Pro on 28Goods EUR 1010.95 / Catalogue USD 1115.00
So price on 28Goods i do not find it bad at all
It would be groupset at EUR 739.00 (pre order price in Spain now. Deleted price €879.00, so price after pre-order sales), frame and rest EUR 271.95
Will check with 28Goods about shipping costs and will try to contact Twitter factory also.
Will let you know if i make progress in either way.
Thanks again!!
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I couldn’t wait any longer. Pulled the trigger on an EDS rim brake version 2 days ago. With a discount I got it for under 540.00 USD (taxes included) and free shipping. 500-550.00 was my break point for purchasing this groupset. Looking forward to testing it out this summer. I will be replacing a perfectly well tuned 105 R7000 group on my training bike.
I will provide feedback once it arrives and I get some miles on it.
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Twitter R12 Pro on 28Goods EUR 1010.95 / Catalogue USD 1115.00
So price on 28Goods i do not find it bad at all
It would be groupset at EUR 739.00 (pre order price in Spain now. Deleted price €879.00, so price after pre-order sales), frame and rest EUR 271.95
Will check with 28Goods about shipping costs and will try to contact Twitter factory also.
Will let you know if i make progress in either way.
Thanks again!!
Let us know if you can reach Twitter factory and the prices you got
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Welp, I finally got around to installing it but front derailluer's adjustment screw doesn't work screw hole has its threads stripped.... Sigh. Since I bought it off AliExpress, the options given to me where to ship it back for repair or replacement and they'll only cover $20 for the shipping. What a pain. I think I'll just retap it myself with larger pitch threads and grub screw to match.
youtu.be/954JlwyqVzI
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That's not a good start, what kind of QC is that? I hate front derailleurs so much, they scare me :p
I won't go 1x though.
Really curious to see if this group is indeed better than L-TWOO, because I can't recommend the er9 anymore.
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I am just under 200 miles on my EDS TX installation. To date, the system has worked really well other than taking some time to get used to the RH shift paddles. As the shifting becomes more natural, I am making fewer and fewer mis-shifts.
My EDS TX is installed on my gravel bike. Each of my rides typically has 2500+ ft of climbing for every 20 miles ridden. These rides are shift intensive, so if I am going to have any problems, they will show up sooner than later.
So far.... Thumbs up!
OTOH, I have about 1500 miles on my EDS OX (1X 12) bike-packing hardtail without any issues over the past 9 months. I have less than 100 miles each on the EDs OX hardtail and FS bike. This past weekend, my Full suspension bike really took a beating over 2 days of riding, and the OX rear derailleur worked flawlessly.
I definitely give a thumbs up for the EDS OX kit.
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Looking for some help. Got my EDS TX today. Charged everything, got the app, did a functions test after everything was paired. Once I started mounting it to my bike and making adjustments, the RD defaults to 3rd gear. I can use the initial calibration function to force it into 1st (11spd) but after one or two shifts it defaults right back to 3rd.
I deleted the app tried all over and turned off the units. FWIW, I was able to get the FD mounted and tuned. Any suggestions?
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Looking for some help. Got my EDS TX today. Charged everything, got the app, did a functions test after everything was paired. Once I started mounting it to my bike and making adjustments, the RD defaults to 3rd gear. I can use the initial calibration function to force it into 1st (11spd) but after one or two shifts it defaults right back to 3rd.
I deleted the app tried all over and turned off the units. FWIW, I was able to get the FD mounted and tuned. Any suggestions?
I assume: You have the cassette selected to the correct number of cogs (11 speed)
1. Put your app into "initial calibration" You should see a picture that looks like a cassette. On each side, there are arrows. Since your derailleur is stuck in a higher gear, you have to slowly step it down to the smallest cog. (Reads like you have done this process already.)
2. After you get the pulleys aligned with the smallest cog, exit initial calibration. Go into the "replace cassette" screen and first check that the settings are "11" speed. Then select either 10 speed or 12 speed and save your setting for a different cassette and "Save" Exit, then go back into the "replace cassette" screen and select "11 speed" and save this setting. (This is a double check to be sure that the derailleur has "learned and saved" the cassette as an 11 speed).
3. Select "variable speed mode" and then select "fine tuning gear" "rear". Take a look at the screen to be sure you have 11 gears displayed. Check to see the "1file" has a "0" setting. Verify that the shift count for each gear is an equal value between gears. - Push on the "One Click Recovery" and reset to the default cog spacing. (If it isn't resetting you have some sort of a problem I haven't seen before.)
4. Exit out of this screen and go into the "Gear Shift" screen. This screen should show your number of cogs, and that you are in your smallest cog. Shift into lower gears. (Past where it was stuck before.) Then shift back down to the smallest cog. Repeat several times if possible.
5. Hopefully this solves your problem.
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I assume: You have the cassette selected to the correct number of cogs (11 speed)
1. Put your app into "initial calibration" You should see a picture that looks like a cassette. On each side, there are arrows. Since your derailleur is stuck in a higher gear, you have to slowly step it down to the smallest cog. (Reads like you have done this process already.)
2. After you get the pulleys aligned with the smallest cog, exit initial calibration. Go into the "replace cassette" screen and first check that the settings are "11" speed. Then select either 10 speed or 12 speed and save your setting for a different cassette and "Save" Exit, then go back into the "replace cassette" screen and select "11 speed" and save this setting. (This is a double check to be sure that the derailleur has "learned and saved" the cassette as an 11 speed).
3. Select "variable speed mode" and then select "fine tuning gear" "rear". Take a look at the screen to be sure you have 11 gears displayed. Check to see the "1file" has a "0" setting. Verify that the shift count for each gear is an equal value between gears. - Push on the "One Click Recovery" and reset to the default cog spacing. (If it isn't resetting you have some sort of a problem I haven't seen before.)
4. Exit out of this screen and go into the "Gear Shift" screen. This screen should show your number of cogs, and that you are in your smallest cog. Shift into lower gears. (Past where it was stuck before.) Then shift back down to the smallest cog. Repeat several times if possible.
5. Hopefully this solves your problem.
Tijoe,
Thank you so much for the quick response. Yes, I was able to fix it but it was my fault not the grpupsets. I paired everything first then started following the set up
instructions. I had the FD on the small chainring…. A real smack my head moment. I didn’t have the chain on so it never occurred to me that the FD might be preventing crosschaining.
I got it all set up and did a preliminary test ride around the neighborhood.
Working out the kinks and fine tuning the gears. In race mode, I seemed to get the
RD to skip gears with just one press of the paddle. I went back to casual and the gear changes were more positive with no skips. Race mode did not seem to make the FD any faster.
I have a more thorough write up once I get out on some training rides. So far, I’m cautiously optimistic.
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Still a bit early to provide a full assessment. However, I did a 2hr ride on a hilly course. So far, no issues to report. Still dialing in the shifting and ensuring everything is spot on. Primarily at this point I am very pleased with the rim brake version.
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i've done a makeshift temp fix to get my front derailleur usable while I wait for my tapping gear to arrive.
Early thoughts, shifting is good. I'm not sure how I feel about the trimming or when protection kicks in - still trying to figure out what it's doing. Front right shifter buttons feel fine, haven't had any usage/ergonomic issues. So far it's been positive experience in actual use.
On a separate note, it looks like wheeltop.com is shipping to more destinations like Canada however not U.S. yet.
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I'm seeing the Wheeltop EDS TX disc groupset re-listed on AliExpress with shipping. The seller is offering a $48.54 USD discount + the current $50 USD discount code.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806728969400.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806728969400.html)
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I went through the other seller. Initially, I was going to purchase from that site but got
a better discount with the other one. Prices seem to fluctuate weekly. I’m still testing my groupset before I provide some end user feedback. So far, mostly positive.
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2 days ago, I swapped out my crank set that uses 50 - 34 chainrings to a new set of cranks with 48-32 chainrings. I shortened my chain my a link, lowered the front derailleur then performed a new calibration on the app for the front derailleur. Now that I am very familiar with using the WheelTop app, this process went very smoothly. I had to re-tune 4 of the rear cogs. Took the bike out for a 17 mile, 1,500 feet of climbing test ride. I am becoming used to the shifters and had no "human error" mis shifts.
The more I ride the EDS TX, the more I like it. (After about 220 miles on the new kit, plus the shifting during my latest tuning, the front derailleur says 77%, rear derailleur is at 71% battery charge.)
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How much have you guys paid for it? I heard on youtube someone paid around 400 dollars (he's canadian but i would still assume USD) but I've never seen it anywhere near that price
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How much have you guys paid for it? I heard on youtube someone paid around 400 dollars (he's canadian but i would still assume USD) but I've never seen it anywhere near that price
My hydraulic brake, carbon lever kit cost $620, minus $80 off anniversary sale coupon, minus store coupon for around $20, for a total of $522 with free shipping.
Edit: I read that the aluminum, rim brake version, was purchased for closer to $400 during the sale, but there weren't many of those kits for sale and they sold out fast.
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Aluminium rim brake does not exist (for sale) yet. Only carbon rim brake and alu disc brake
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How much have you guys paid for it? I heard on youtube someone paid around 400 dollars (he's canadian but i would still assume USD) but I've never seen it anywhere near that price
I got mine in aluminium for 472USD (AliExpress coins + AliExpress 50$ coupon code + Seller's 80$ coupon code), disc brake version. I asked the seller the weight difference between the carbon and the aluminium version and he told me there was a difference of 0.1kg, that's why I did not opt for the carbon version. IMO, it was not worth the 60$ difference.
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Aluminium rim brake does not exist (for sale) yet. Only carbon rim brake and alu disc brake
I could swear that for a short period of time around the Anniversary sale, an Aliexpress store sold a EDS TX-RA6100 kit that had Aluminum shift levers, rather than carbon, and used cable brakes. This was the inexpensive kit I saw that could be purchased for around $400, but they were all sold out. When I look up these listings, it says "page can't be found"
In Japan, I see this kit for sale, but my computer wont translate the page, so I can't read the details to confirm aluminum brake levers.
Edit: There are TX-RA6100 and TX-RA6000 kits listed I am failrly sure one kit has aluminum brake levers.
http://hodaka-bicycles.jp/wheeltop-eds-txra6100-delay/
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I paid 540.00 (total) for the carbon rim brake version. TBH, it doesn’t feel like there is much in the way of carbon fiber on this groupset. If your finding this in this in the 400-475.00 range I would say that is a deal.
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I could swear that for a short period of time around the Anniversary sale, an Aliexpress store sold a EDS TX-RA6100 kit that had Aluminum shift levers, rather than carbon, and used cable brakes. This was the inexpensive kit I saw that could be purchased for around $400, but they were all sold out. When I look up these listings, it says "page can't be found"
In Japan, I see this kit for sale, but my computer wont translate the page, so I can't read the details to confirm aluminum brake levers.
Edit: There are TX-RA6100 and TX-RA6000 kits listed I am failrly sure one kit has aluminum brake levers.
http://hodaka-bicycles.jp/wheeltop-eds-txra6100-delay/
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Just my initial thoughts on the EDS RA6000 (carbon rim brake) groupset. Up front, it’s working well for my intended purposes and after 6 days of continuous riding I am quite happy with the product for the price. Time will tell how good of a groupset it actually is.
For a good overview of the groupset, I found Ribble Valley Cyclist’s review to be helpful: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UfV05_ot7lM&pp=ygUVcmliYmxlIHZhbGxleSBjeWNsaXN0
I received my group a week early, which was a surprise. No damage to the packaging. Everything appeared to be in order. Not a lot of instructions or extra parts. It’s basically a mini grouppo, bring your own crankset, chain and cassette. I pre downloaded the app. For the first two days, I fumbled my way through the app, set up and tuning. Translations to English are not the best but if you are familiar with working on bikes most of it should be self explanatory.
I set the group up on a 14yro near mint Tarmac Elite frame that I’m using on my turbo during the winter months. The rest of the year its my “training, travel, take to work bike”. Despite it’s age the bike performs really well. I had brand new 105 R7000 before I put the EDS on. Running 50-34 compact cranks and 11-32 cassette.
Set up using the “Initial Calibration” feature on the app is really simple. Mount everything, add the chain, set the RD on the smallest sprocket and move it slightly inboard till it rubs the next gear. Back it off and set the limit screw. Function test by moving through the gears and set the high limit screw. All done.
I got some chatter in some of the middle gears. Took me a while to figure out the “fine tuning” feature but once I got it sorted, fine tuning has actually gotten pretty easy. I recommend moving up or down in increments of +/-50. You’ll know really quickly if its going in the right direction.
Performance wise, I am comparing this group to SRAM AXS Force (previous gen), Ultegra Di2 11spd, and Dura-Ace Di2 11spd. I have thousands of miles on all three of those groups and have my opinions on all of them. My opinion is that Di2 has always “worked”. I’ve never had an issue with Ultegra or DA. Tuning, cassette, chainring swaps, all easy. Battery life, never an issue. SRAM, worked great, hoods were a bit big, it was noisy and it took me a year to figure out how to prevent the dreaded FD overshift… but it was still a solid group.
EDS in comparison to these groups “feels” to me ever so slightly slower in shifting. Not like in a detrimental way, it’s just what I perceive to feel. I am only using it in “Casual mode”. I tested “Race mode” in the stand and it shifted much faster but it would skip 2-3 gears. Also, Race mode is supposed to drain the battery quicker. In Race mode it didn’t seem like the FD shifted any quicker.
Over the last 6 days I’ve ridden between 20-30 miles each day. No missed shifts, no chatter (after fine tuning) or hang ups. Riding hilly undulating routes with constant shifting. It was surprisingly good with zero issues. Felt better than my SRAM Force if I can be honest. The paddles for shifting are decent but don’t provide positive “click” like Shimano or SRAM when making gear changes. Set up of the FD was easier than the RD and far easier than SRAM’s FD. I set it one time, fine tuned it and have had no chain drops. The FD is slow but it works with no drama.
Hoods in my opinion are ugly but functional. They “work” but lack any real thought or ergo design behind them. On the other hand, they are bigger than Shimano’s hoods and smaller than SRAM’s. The rubber is pretty good too.
I did not take any weight measurements, however when I unboxed the group, each component felt heavier than I expected. On the bike, it didn’t affect the overall bike weight by a large margin. Both batteries came with about an 80% charge. I charged them to 100% before started my tests. After one week the RD is at 70% and the FD is at 75%. I plan to ride until I hit 20% before recharging.
Couple of concerns and annoyances. Spare parts, battery replacements, hoods are not available. Every time you want to connect to check battery life or make changes to the group, you have to wake the system with the charging cable plugged into a power source. There is no external wake feature.
I plan on putting the miles only this group over the summer. As issues arise or anything happens of concern I’ll update this thread. In the meantime, I think if it continues to work as is I will try it out with a 12spd set up in the fall.
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Couple of concerns and annoyances. Spare parts, battery replacements, hoods are not available. Every time you want to connect to check battery life or make changes to the group, you have to wake the system with the charging cable plugged into a power source. There is no external wake feature.
Not my experience. Group indeed needs to be woken up if you weren't using it either from movement or through the shifter buttons afterwhich you can connect your app to make adjustments. No need to have charge cable attached and plugged into power source.
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Not my experience. Group indeed needs to be woken up if you weren't using it either from movement or through the shifter buttons afterwhich you can connect your app to make adjustments. No need to have charge cable attached and plugged into power source.
Nor my experience. Same as quoted above.
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I stand corrected. When I initially tried to install this everytime I tried to connect via the app, it kept timing out. This led me to attach the charging cable to wake the device and connect.
I just tried it now without the charging cable and was able to connect. Sorry for the bad info.
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Gravel groupset to be anounced "soon"
source https://youtu.be/alWjt9AqT0Q?si=apztFRmVhx_yEia0&t=1365