Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: steven-iam on March 27, 2017, 01:48:59 PM
-
Hello Fellow Chinertowners:
I find this site incredibly helpful, and am very grateful to the person who spent the time to create this site.
That said, I’m going to tell you my Chiner story, It’s long and boring, but hopefully it will be my way of giving back, so others can learn from my experience.
I own a Cannondale 2015 Scalpel team. This is another story, but to make a long story longer… it started out as a 2012 Scalpel Carbon 1. Over the years, everything was upgraded except Hollowgram Cranks and the rear shock. When I cracked my frame in 2016, they gave me a new 2015 Team frame. I didn’t like the green, so I had it plasti-dipped black. When they gave it back painted, they informed me it was a small. I’m 5’9”, I was really happy with my bike until they told me, and it was too late to return. No wonder the bike was always so” twitchy”. I did manage to get third in State in my class, and 1st in the region. (just to give me some credibility...brag)
So, I was in the market for a new “medium” sized bike. 2015 Frames on eBay were about $1600 and had the old geometry. Cannondale changed the geometry in 2017 by slackening the fork and shortening the chainstays. So I did some research for a cheap Chinese bike frame with the new geometry, and happened to stumble upon a post on MTBR about Deng-Fu, and how nice they were.
So I goggled Deng-Fu and found their Alibaba site (and found this site after I placed my order). I contacted them, and their sales person “Kelsey” was a very professional sales rep, and returned all correspondence promptly. She walked me through the process and updated my Alibaba order to reflect the logo painting, headset bearings, thru-axle, stem and extra derailleur hangers. They kept their 15 day schedule for custom paint, and shipping through EMS took only a little more than a week (I was expecting a month).
I ordered a “Lefty for All” conversion kit, xx1 GXP crankset, Monarch XX rear shock, BB92-GXP sram bearings, RWC 21.85 Shock bearings, and stem spacers ahead of time. So I had everything I needed to assemble.
The frame looked great, except since I kept it flat black; you could very slightly tell where they had to sand the imperfections from the mold. Also there wasn’t enough room for the rear brake (SRAM Guide Ultimates ) so I had to make a spacer to crazy glue to the frame to allow adjustment room. Also you have to grind the Shock Pivot Bolts so they will fit tight, otherwise your frame will have lots of play. One last thing, the bottle cage holes are in the wrong place. I asked Kelsey about this before shipping, and she said this is no longer an issue. She was misinformed. The good part is that the bottle cage holes are so far off, the bottom hole is exactly where the top hole should be, so a handy zip-tie to hold the bottom of the cage works great.
It only took a few hours to assemble, and weighed in at only “22.1” lbs, about the same weight as my Scalpel.
On the weekend, I took my Deng-Fu M06 for her maiden voyage. When I arrived at the trailhead, Cannondale was there giving demos. How lucky is that? Now I can compare my new Frankenstein Deng-Fu against the new 2017 $9,500 Scalpel Team.
The Deng-Fu M06 was great. Much better than expected. It is way less twitchy, and handles the drops much better than its predecessor, yet super responsive.
The 2017 Scalpel Team was much stiffer and not as stable on rocky declines. Not much different than my old 2015 Scalpel. I felt like the Cannondale was faster… But after looking at my Strava times, I rode faster on the Deng-Fu, and I got 2 PBs. The Cannondale was probably slower due to exhaustion.
Conclusion:
If you can work on your own bike and have the tools, the Deng-Fu is well worth the money. And what a great way to update the geometry of your old bike. It’s like getting a new bike for a fraction of the cost. The few problems mentioned above were very minor.
But if you’re not handy, than I highly recommend buying a new bike from the store, they will support you and fix any warranty issues. If you purchase a Cannondale, their carbon frames are warranted for life, Deng-Fu is 2 years.
Hope I didn't bore you too much. Please feel free to comment or ask questions.
Attached Pics:
Side View
Front View
Loaded on Sea-Sucker bike mounts (photo bombed by my dog)
Fiber washer from Home Depot crazy glued to frame
Zip-tied bottle cage
Cannondale demo compare
-
Awesome build and great write up! I'm happy to see more reviews coming out about these newer Chinese FS frame designs. I agree that the matte black isn't attractive with the blemishes from production, but I had someone local quote me about $80 to paint the frame. Oh well, in time maybe.
Not to derail this thread... but is that a Fiskar Karma?? I haven't seen one in a number of years. I assumed they all broke down by now.. but seriously, that is a great looking car.
-
Yep, I bought it new in 2012, it's my daily drive, 45,000 miles and no problems except having to reboot the computer every few months. I'm registering 409 mpg. Love the car.
-
Definitely the coolest looking car+bike setup of any trailhead.
-
What chainring do you use? I bought a garbaruk 38t to my FSA SL-K crankset. The 38t hit the chainstay. Is 36t the biggest working chainring? Do you think it is possible to shim the crankset about 3mm to the right to make it work with my 38t chainring?
-
I'm using a 32 tooth chainring. You must be super strong to climb with 38 even with a 1x12
-
What size is yours ? I want to ensure the bottle holes are not a problem. Dengfu said problem is gone with XL size.
-
charlesrg, my size is 17.5
-
Nice write up, we (Chinertown Community) really appreciate those who take the time to share so much about their new bike.
-
I would like to order an extra set of pivot bearings just in case they are hard to find when I will really need them.
Does anyone know if there are bearings in the shock link? I'm having a little trouble communicating with the sales person. It seems like there should be 6 bearings and three bushings. I really don't want to take my bike apart to find out. DengFu sent me this pic. It looks like there are only bearings at the bottom, which means we may have wear problems later if that is true.
-
I would like to order an extra set of pivot bearings just in case they are hard to find when I will really need them.
Does anyone know if there are bearings in the shock link? I'm having a little trouble communicating with the sales person. It seems like there should be 6 bearings and three bushings. I really don't want to take my bike apart to find out. DengFu sent me this pic. It looks like there are only bearings at the bottom, which means we may have wear problems later if that is true.
I would not worry about bearings. They are easy to get. You can order from RWC or VXB easy.
Just keep a spare derailleur hanger and you should be fine. Rarely someone strips a bolt but I don't think it's worth sticking it.
Have been abusing my ip036 for almost 3 years with no issues related to those.
-
Thank you for the info, There are so many, how do you know which ones?
http://enduroforkseals.com/id169.html
-
You can measure it or just read the label on your old one, it will say like 6802, 6901, the letter are the seal types. They are kinda standard. A bearing should last a long long time given no damage to the seal. Very little to worry.
Sizing info here:
https://www.bearingworks.com/bearing-sizes/
I used to order my skateboard bearings here: http://www.vxb.com/
-
I would like to order an extra set of pivot bearings just in case they are hard to find when I will really need them.
Does anyone know if there are bearings in the shock link?
6901, six of them.
Two at the bottom, four in the link.
-
Update:
It's been a couple of months, so I thought i'd give an update on how the bike is working out.
The Deng-Fu M06 frame is definitely not as stiff as a super high end name brand made in Taiwan. The Toray rating of the DengFu is 800 compared to Cannondale's "BallisTec Hi-MOD" which I think has a Toray rating of 1100. But I happen to like the flex, riding is way more comfy and quiet.
Also i'm riding about a pound heavier than my old Cannondale. But this could be because of the "Lefty for All" conversion kit, cranks and the new wider rim wheels.
The frame is holding up perfectly, I love the geometry, if you get a little too tired to hop over obstacles, the bike has no problem absorbing them.
So far I wouldn't trade this frame for anything else. I love it.
Here's the latest pic with my new wheels and chain.
Happy Trails.
-
Thanks for the update! I have my eye on this frame along with a few others. Can you speak to pedaling efficiency and pedal bob? There is another post where the OP mentioned the bobing was getting annoying for him. makes me question the rear triangle pivot placement. You have an interesting perspective given the fact you are coming from a top quality name brand frame! How would you compare the two?
-
Beautiful bike!
Are you light? There is a fair amount of spacers over the headtube.
It is probably for ride comfort, but due to the asymmetric force on the lefty adapter, I would be worried about the extra lever and the headtube resistance.
This would need a detailed calculation though :)
-
Looks like an improved version of my old IP-036 but the never fixed the cable routing for the rear shock.
-
Can you speak to pedaling efficiency and pedal bob?...How would you compare the two?
There is a "bob" when climbing standing up and really pushing it, perhaps a little more than my old Scalpel. For me, climbing is easier (especially if its rocky.) because of the short chainstay and the new rear Monarch XX shock. I would guess the rear shock has the most affect on bobing.
-
Are you light? There is a fair amount of spacers over the headtube. It is probably for ride comfort, but due to the asymmetric force on the lefty adapter, I would be worried about the extra lever and the headtube resistance.
Hi Carbonazza,
I weight 155 lbs, The stem is as low as it will go. Since the lefty is taller, the spacers only fill in the gap between the headtube and the fork clamps. Also the shortest stem length I can go is 90mm, which gives you a low stance for XC. As far as stress from a lefty over a normal fork... I really think it's negligible, all normal forks only have the shock mechanics on one side. Also I would like to think that Cannondale, who sells the "lefty for all" conversion kit, has too much to loose if it's unsafe. That doesn't mean its true.
-
...but they never fixed the cable routing for the rear shock.
Hi Carbon Dude. What's wrong with the rear shock cable routing on the new M06?
-
There is a "bob" when climbing standing up and really pushing it, perhaps a little more than my old Scalpel. For me, climbing is easier (especially if its rocky.) because of the short chainstay and the new rear Monarch XX shock. I would guess the rear shock has the most affect on bobing.
I'm about ready to pull the trigger on one of these. Couple of questions for you:
1) You mentioned you thought the Cannondale was stiffer. In what way? In what way does the "softer" M06 perform? Is it lateral stiffness or through the bottom bracket when cranking?
2) Are you using a high volume Monarch XX? Did you do anything to tune the shock to the frame? My thinking is a high volume shock might help with small bump compliance. Usually a single pivot design needs more help there.
Thanks for all of your feedback!
-
Yikes, these are hard questions.
1. The M06 just feels a tad softer in all directions. I like it, I don't get as beat up. Mainland China doesn't seem to have the high-strength carbon techniques that the Taiwan factories have. I'm pretty sure you will see that the high-end Specialized, Cannondale, Yeti etc frames are made in Taiwan, but don't quote me on this. What attracted me to the Deng-Fu M06 is the 68.5 degree slack, short chainstays, and a good reputation.
2. My rear shock is a Rockshox Monarch XX 165x38mm w/ Lockout M/M Tune. (my old cannondale had a pro-pedal setting) The Monarch XX rear shock is standard on the Cannondale Carbon Team which has a zero pivot design. I only measure for recommended sag. I probably should rent an analyzer from the LBS.
Hope this helps.
-
Hey, I really appreciate your feedback! I know i ask obscure questions. I guess because we don't have the ability to test ride Chiner frames we want to learn everything about them as best we can. A well designed bike is important but in the end it all comes down to the strength of the engine ;)
-
Adbl, please post on this thread what you ended up buying.
-
I sure will! I'm in conversation with Melody from DengFu about the M06. If i pull the trigger i will post here and then start a build thread so all who might be interested can follow.
Thanks again!
-
I sure will! I'm in conversation with Melody from DengFu about the M06. If i pull the trigger i will post here and then start a build thread so all who might be interested can follow.
Thanks again!
Nice bike and nice car too man!
-
Update 2: Pivot Bolts
So it seems my pivot bolts loosen up after a few rides, not a big problem except the one over the bottom bracket. There is not enough room for a standard allen wrench. The only way I could tighten it is to remove the cranks. I don't think this is a problem if you have anything under 32 teeth. I solved the problem with a "Stubby" wrench I found on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E7XGWI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E7XGWI/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Thought you might want to know.
PS. Does anyone know if they use Loctite on the Pivot Bolts?
-
If you are having problems with the pivot bolts loosening on a regular basis, blue Loctite would be something I would seriously consider doing, there really is no down side to applying some the next chance you get. Another alternative would be some teflon tape if you don't have any Loctite handy.
-
...blue Loctite ...
Will do. Thank you
-
Second the blue loctite. Also make sure bottom axle preload bolt is fine, it's the same system Shimano HT2 cranks use. I had hard time trying to remove the axle without unscrewing it (I know, that's stupid).
-
I had hard time trying to remove the axle without unscrewing it.
Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a bottom axle preload bolt?
-
Sorry for my ignorance, but what is a bottom axle preload bolt?
Here's (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1UKCqDICTSRoHl2U10gG2tAGalkiUcv1L5Q) the lowermost frame linkage axle. If I understand it right, the topmost part has a slot in outer threads, a conical recess and some thread inside underneath the recess, so you can screw this bolt (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Ys7OuEKU9OBLeZybjdRBzJqF_5qYXPUNmQ) into it. The further the bolt is screwed in, the more outer axle thread diameter increases (it can because of outer thread slot, like two flower petals), which in turn restricts axle movement through inner bearing race. The whole setup looks similar to this (https://i.stack.imgur.com/GWDPA.jpg) Shimano non-driveside crankarm preload cap.
-
... the lowermost frame linkage axle....
Great explanation. Very good to know. I'm probably not going to mess with anything until the bearings start wearing. Hopefully it will be a while. Thank you so much for your response.
-
Update:
First real problem. I went from a 2.1 Racing Ralph rear tire to a 2.25 redline. During a race last weekend my rear tire was hitting the frame on hard landings. Just a couple of times, but who wants to rub a frame? Looks like i'm going back to 2.1.
-
2.25 redline? What tyre is that? Are you referring to one of the schwalbe tyres with the addix speed compound? If so, which one? Another racing Ralph?
-
Just a couple of times, but who wants to rub a frame? Looks like i'm going back to 2.1.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but a couple of layers of protection tape should be enough against occasional rub, unless there's a sharp rock stuck between threads, which shouldn't happen often considering how rarely spaced knobs are on XC/marathon tires.
-
Another racing Ralph?
Yes you are correct, another Racing Ralph Addix. Sorry I should have been more specific. Also, why can’t us Americans spell tyre?
-
... a couple of layers of protection tape should be enough...
Great idea I’ll give it a try. Thank you