Thanks for the replies! Maybe the A22 fits me the way a bike should fit most people but not me?
lower back discomfort isn't something that never happens for me. If I'm active it doesn't bother me but if I'm standing around doing nothing it will.
I am seeing a 10mm increase to stack and a 15mm reduction in reach with the Elves frame.
I've attached a geometry comparison. So the effective top tube is a bit over 19mm with the Elves. The stack #'s says the Elves is 10mm taller but its headtube is 20mm longer and its bottom bracket is 3mm lower compared to the A22, so only a 10mm difference doesn't seem to add up. Maybe its not ~20mm but 10mm has gotta be wrong.
I've had the bike for 2 seasons now but it might only get riden once a week or so. The lower back discomfort slowly builds as the ride goes on. I find I ride with my finger tips on the top of the bars often to get some relief. Afer 60km or so I'm ready to get off the bike. The bar is an integrated and is 44cm wide with a 110mm stem. The top of the saddle is 10cm taller than the tops of the bars.
I'm not sure how relevant it is, but I also attached a pic of my hybrid. This bike gets the most saddle time and I've done many 100km+ rides on it with no discomfort at all. The drop from the saddle to the bars is ~2cm. FWIW the horizontal distance from the center of the seatpost the the center of the bars is 69cm on both bikes.
Thanks again!!