Chinertown
Other Resources => Component Deals & Selection => Topic started by: Carbon_Dude on April 21, 2014, 08:53:34 AM
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These tires are very different from the Schwalbe or Continental tires I normally run. First off, they are a bit heavier at about 800g per tire. For comparison, I've used Racing Ralphs that are ~550g per tire, nearly 2/3 the weight. However, the RR are super thin and will puncture easliy. I had lots of problems with the RR losing air, even with Stan's Sealant.
The Geax Saguaro TNT tires are meaty, which makes them heavier but more puncture resistant. In a tire, I look for a balance between low weight and reliability or puncture resistance and good wear performance. It's hard to get a good balance, in the past I've been really happy with Continental X-King 2.4" Folding tires. With the Continental, you need to be careful as they have a wire bead version that is not as nice as the folding tire and it's not clear on most websites which version of the X-king tire you will get.
The Geax Saguaro TNT tires are very high quality, they mounted tubeless on my XMIplay Carbon rims very easily. I used one layer of Stan's Rim Tape, mounted the tire, added some Orange Sealant, and inflated them with no cursing :). Very happy when you don't need to fight with tires. In comparison, the Schwalbe RR required much more effort with getting them to seal as there were several sidewall pin holes, and I needed to shake and shake the wheel (as per Stan's Instructions) to get the sealant to cover the side walls. Some people report that they have the sealant weep through the sidewalls on the RR although I never had that problem.
Trail conditions for these tires would be on the hardpack side, I have not ridden them in muddy conditions so I don't know how well they shed mud. Looking at the tread pattern I'd say they would do okay but they would not do as well as say a Kenda Nevagal.
When riding, these tires provide a very soft almost plush ride, even when aired up to as much as 38psi. They have a rating of 120tpi (threads per inch) which makes the tire very pliable. On my first ride I could feel lots of movement in the tire, so if you are the type that likes a really hard tire, this is not the tire for you. I mounted these on my full suspension IP-036, but I would think they would work better on a hardtail, providing that nice bit of compliance to the back wheel.
Overall I'm pleased with these tires, after 30+ miles they still have the nubs on them so hopefully the compound has good wear characteristics. So there you have it, they are a bit on the heavier side but have lots of other good qualities.
(http://crev.vo.llnwd.net/o42/mtbreview/images/products/medium450/product_414230_13824.jpg)
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Tires are just one of those things.. There are sooo many, and we all have different bikes and trail conditions, it's difficult to choose which ones are best for you without first spending $500 on rubber. It doesn't take long, these days. Although, I do admit to being somewhat of a tire whore... I've never tried the Geax Suguaro TNT tires but after your write-up.. they're on my "to try list"
Thanks for the write up.
Edit: Oh wait... 1000 grams per tire.. on a full carbon sweet ass rig such as yours? Might I suggest that you went from 550 gram tires to 1000 grams tires, and skipped the sweet spot of 700-800 grams? I'm sure you have your reasons, because the bike is too well thought out otherwise.. Just interested in what those reasons are, if you don't mind?
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You would be right about the weight, I re-checked my spreadsheet and the tires together weigh 1590g so 795g each. I will go edit my original post. So, if I had put on Racing Ralph Tires, I would have a FS 29er that's less than 23 lbs but would be more prone to flats.
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Okay.. I was actually thinking the same. They sounded good from your review, but 1k grams seemed a bit too high when the Maxxis Ikon 2.35s are under 700 grams without the EXO protection.
I'm actually going through a bit of a tire obsession lately. Not sure why, just fascinated with all the different models and their characteristics. I'll definitely look into these now, as I have yet to order the Ikons (will do in next couple of days) and am open to other options. But for some reason, I just have it in my head that I need a tire bigger than 2.2x. My thinking is that with a hardtail, the extra air should surely be a welcome addition, especially when the tires are getting to decent weights at larger sizes. Like the 2.35 Ikon being under 700 grams. Although, I certainly do not want tire walls that even remotely resemble the Racing Ralphs if they are as you describe.
Besides the 2.35 Ikons, I'm also interested in the Specialized Purgatory up front with a Specialized Ground Control rear... That's if I wanted to add some weight and some grip at the loss of rolling resistance. I've read lots of good things about that Specialized combo. Most likely, I'll go with the Ikons, and if I find I'm wanting for a meatier front (or front and rear?) tire then I'll get a Purgatory... Or the Ardent 2.4... or the Ardent Race.. or... ;D
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I have 2.4" Racing Ralph & 2.4" Conti X-King tires on my IP-056 and even though the Geax Saguaro says it's a 2.2" tire, the measurements I get on my bikes are:
IP-036, 30mm wide carbon rims
Geax Saguaro measured width = 2.3" Fr/Rr
IP-056, 25mm wide AL DT Swiss Rims
Schwalbe Racing Ralph 2.4", measured width = 2.2" Fr
Continental X-king 2.4", measured width - 2.25" Rr
So, you be the judge as to actual tire width. Obviously it also depends on your rim width. So even thought the Geax is spec'd as a 2.2, it comes in the widest of the three tires I have right now, although on the wider rims.
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What the hell. That makes it all the more difficult.. I believe i'm most likely way over thinking this. I genuinely may go with the Saguaros after reading up on them a bit more, as they'd save me about $30-$40 over the Ikons.
The listed weight on Jenson is 690 grams: http://www.jensonusa.com/!UlvlcPIYd0lSfOZm6!kW2A!/Geax-Saguaro-TNT-29-Tire?utm_source=FRGL&utm_medium=organic&gclid=CO6s14OR9L0CFc1j7Aodz3YAAA
May not be accurate but thought it was worth pointing out. These tires are becoming more attractive by the minute.
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If you don't mind, all specs aside, out of the three tires you have listed the (Saguaro, X-king, Racing Ralph) which ones are your favs? You know.. when you're not really thinking about all the stuff we spend far too much time analyzing :D Which ones do you simply prefer when out on the trail?
Thanks for the insightful write-up.
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Think I'm going with the Saguaros.. Look plenty big enough here:
(http://i.imgur.com/gzUluTg.jpg)
Plus, I'm digging the grey side walls.
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If you don't mind, all specs aside, out of the three tires you have listed the (Saguaro, X-king, Racing Ralph) which ones are your favs? You know.. when you're not really thinking about all the stuff we spend far too much time analyzing :D Which ones do you simply prefer when out on the trail?
Thanks for the insightful write-up.
Hi Izzy, I think they are all good tires and all have their strong and weak points, here is a pros and cons list of what I think:
Schwalbe Racing Ralph
Pro: Very light weight
Pro: Seems to grip well
Pro: Tread blocks are sized nicely for dry and wet terrain and go out to the edge of the tire profile.
Con: Expensive, up to $80 per tire
Con: Thin sidewalls, requires lots of work to get the sealant to close the pin holes and hold air
Con: Tread compound wears quickly
Continental X-King
Pro: Fairly light weight
Pro: Reasonable cost, ~$40 for the folding bead version
Pro: Good tread design
Pro: Tread compound seems to have longer wear
Pro/Con: Firmer side wall than the Geax, can have some pin hole leaks that need to be sealed with tire sealant.
Con: I've ordered these two times and received the heavier, wire bead version and had to return them.
Con: The top of the line version with the Black Chili Compound is more expensive, ~$60+
Geax Sagauro TNT
Pro: Reasonable price, $40, from Artscyclery.com, free shipping.
Pro: High quality tire, very nice construction.
Pro: Setup tubeless the tire aired up very easily, no leaks, no loss of air over a few weeks.
Pro: Widest tire I have on 30mm wide rims.
Pro: Tread pattern seems to be good for the hard pack clay that I mostly ride.
Pro: Tread compound seems like it will have long wear but I've only put 30 miles on these tires.
Pro: Looks great, but that's just my opinion
Pro/Con: 120tpi construction seems to make a really nice, plush riding tire but for some they might not like the additional squish of the tire, but I would think the supple feel would be good for a hardtail.
Con: Tread pattern is tighter which may not shed mud as well.
One more thing, when measured, the overall diameter of the GEAX tire as mounted on my carbon wheels is about 29.5" (not 29"), seems the sidewall is about 1/4" taller making the overall diameter a 1/2" taller. However, with the supple construction, the tire flexes more making the runout the same. Meaning, when I measure the length of one revolution (applying a some pressure to the bars to compress the tire slightly) I get 2374 mm, the same as my other bike. I do this to calibrate my bike computer and found that the length of one rev is the same for both my bikes.
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Think I'm going with the Saguaros.. Look plenty big enough here:
(http://i.imgur.com/gzUluTg.jpg)
Plus, I'm digging the grey side walls.
I think you will be happy with them, particularly since you will be using them on a hardtail. One of these days, I will swap my wheels and see how I like the carbon rims with the softer tires on my IP-057, and the looks of the white DT Swiss wheels on the IP-036.
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Geax Sagauro TNT
Pro: Reasonable price, $40, from Artscyclery.com, free shipping.
$34 when you use the coupon code "save15"... Sold! On their way. Total was $67.98 for the pair shipped. A couple of dollars less than one of the Ikon 2.35s I was planning on getting.
Thx CD.
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Well shoot..
Looks like these tires are known for being rather impossible to get on a Stan's rim which my Sun Ringle Charger Experts have.
http://twentynineinches.com/2011/05/15/the-state-of-tubless-ness-tubeless-re-try-part-ii/
Should have read a bit more, I suppose. Now looks like i'll have to do the whole return thing through the mail which I hate messing with. Oh well.
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My recommendation would be to do the following:
1) Make sure you apply soapy water to the tire and rim to help reduce friction and help the tire slip on easier.
2) Make sure the bead is in the center of the rim as you work it around, this will be the smallest part of the rim.
3) Use a couple plastic tire levers to gently coax the tire on the rim.
Using the above steps I've never had an issue with installing tires on rims. However, several years back I had a heck of a time installing some Hutchinson Python UST 26" tires on some Mavic CrossMax 26" rims, fought with those a bit but I had little experience at the time and didn't use any soapy water.
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Hmm.. guess I'll give it a shot then. After a bit more reading it seems there are some success stories, so perhaps it's a matter of technique.
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My recommendation would be to do the following:
1) Make sure you apply soapy water to the tire and rim to help reduce friction and help the tire slip on easier.
2) Make sure the bead is in the center of the rim as you work it around, this will be the smallest part of the rim.
3) Use a couple plastic tire levers to gently coax the tire on the rim.
Using the above steps I've never had an issue with installing tires on rims. However, several years back I had a heck of a time installing some Hutchinson Python UST 26" tires on some Mavic CrossMax 26" rims, fought with those a bit but I had little experience at the time and didn't use any soapy water.
Here we go.. Wish me luck!
(http://i.imgur.com/Xcdt1hH.png)
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In case somebody wants to get a better idea of knob height and tread pattern for the Suguaro. Btw, they named this tire two very difficult words to pronounce "Geax" and "Suguaro".. not sure why anyone would make their product double difficult to pronounce. Or maybe it's just me.
(http://i.imgur.com/LX11yKD.png)
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I am sure they will work fine.
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How could you do this to me Carbon_Dude? :'( ;D
Hahaha... these tires are kicking my a$$! Soapy water didn't even get me close. I'm literally warming up the oven at 75 degrees as we speak to try and heat these things up for a few minutes.
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Success! The oven and soapy water combo did the trick.
I accidentally mounted it in the "traction" direction instead of the "speed" direction like I had planned, but there's no way I'm taking those things off the rim. I doubt there's much difference anyways.
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It is amazing how much variability there is between some combinations of tires and wheels. At $68 for the pair, you will quickly forget how much work they needed to get installed :). I'm thinking I need put a set on my IP-057 but the tires that are on the bike have lots of life left in them.
Glad you got them mounted, what do you think of the super supple 120tpi casing? They do grip really well on the trail.
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Well, I haven't ridden them yet, so I don't know about the 120tpi casing but I have read lots of good reviews talking about that... but I can tell you that I actually appreciate them being such a tight fit because I think that contributed to them being super easy get to seat with a cheap $20 Serfas floor pump. I LOVE the look of the tyres and am thinking the smaller tread, and the long center tread pattern is going to be perfect for me, especially since I have to hit some pavement before I get to the trails.
For the price, I see myself sticking with the Suguaros for a while. I may experiement with a Suguaro out back and a Specialized Purgatory up front just to get a feel for different tyres and try new stuff. After I get my carbon wheelset then I will be able to keep different tyres on different wheelset - looking forward to the flexibility and options.
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I just ordered a new set of Saguaro 29er tires and am very disappointed upon receiving them. I have Geax Saguaro tires on my IP-057 Chiner that I bought about a year ago and have been very happy with them, however, Geax was bought out by Vittoria and the Vittoria Saguaro tire is not the same tire as it was when it was branded by Geax.
The Vittoria tire is cheaply made, not a 120tpi casing like it was when it was branded Geax. This is not a $50-$60 tire, it's more like a $30 tire at best. I will be sending the tires back to PricePoint and have already ordered a set of Continental X-King 2.4 w/Black Chili compound. The Conti is a tire that I have used in the past and have worked well, they have been reliable, and are constructed with a 120tpi casing. I know they are good tires so I decided to stick with what I know. I almost went with Maxxis Ikon tires, more expensive but have gotten good reviews from others, maybe next time I will try Maxxis.
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Good to know CD. Thanks for the heads up as I was also going to buy another set of the Saguaros. Man, that sucks bc they were a steal for the price. Also, these tires are huge.. I think they provide quite a bit of cushion for my hard tail.
Oh well. Guess I may just follow your lead again and try out the X-Kings. I've always really liked the way the sidewalls look on those tires.
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SN, the X-Kings have been a good tire although even those have gone up in price. I was able to get Pricepoint to do a price match for me on the 29x2.4 Black Chili compound tires for $48.45 each, the best price I could find with free shipping and no tax.
Like I said, the Maxxis Ikon 3C EXO TR 29" tire was also on the short list, Pricepoint did a price match on those for me as well, but at $61.79 which is a good price for those tires, just more than I wanted to spend. If you do get those however, please let me know what you think.
I'm actually replacing my worn out Racing Ralph FR/Conti X-King RR, which have been on my IP-036 (due to swapping wheels around). The Racing Ralph is a great tire if you want to replace it often, but at $80 retail, it's too expensive and too thin for me and my riding style. The Conti X-King on the rear has been pretty reliable, I don't think it was the Black Chili version so I am looking forward to how much different the new tires will be. The X-Kings have a high quality feel in the construction and the compound so we'll see if it becomes my new favorite.
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Merlin has some really good deals on Conti tires if you can afford to wait for their shipping.
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...Not sure why, just fascinated with all the different models ...
Man, I had the same thing, puberty was a bitch. Cindy Crawford, Elle Anderson, Kathy Ireland... shit, I think I just gave away too much info about my age. :D
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Okay, dickhead wise-ass comments aside... :D
- Geax wasn't bought by Vittoria, it's been their off-road tire brand since the early 90s. http://www.geax.com/ Looks like they're ditching the "Geax" name. I think it was kinda like Acura and Honda - nobody would buy MTB tires from an old-school European company like Vittoria. (completely my guess based on nothing resembling knowledge)
- I don't care how it's supposed to be said, I call it "geeks". That makes me laugh.
- I had a Saguaro TNT, it fit so damn tight on the rim I quite literally had to cut it off the rim when it was time to get it off. Don't know if this link (https://plus.google.com/+ChrisHeerschap/posts/CfrUntUEbRf) will work for the general public, but photos of said cutting. A buddy who ran many Saguaros had warned me off the TNT, but I needed a tire and took one of his hand-me-downs.
- The normal Saguaro was pretty awesome until I cut a huge gash in it a week or two after getting it. That sucked. Never replaced it.
- Currently Continental are our weapon of choice. Don't remember why, I think because she used to really like the old design Mountain King. Running mostly X-Kings and Mountain Kings. She doesn't like the Race King, but I love it.
- OVEN? Holy sh... You put your tires in an OVEN to install them? I mean, not that different from a long downhill on a really hot day on blacktop, but... OVEN! :D What happens when you're trailside and have a flat?
- Tires are a pain in the ass to get reliable information on before purchasing them. There are huge variations in construction that happen under the same name. Thankfully Continental is pretty clear in what's what - the Race Sport and ProTection tires have the black chili compound, the RaceSport is 120tpi and paper-thin sidewalls, and the generic folders have "normal" rubber and 60tpi or so, I think. (Too lazy to look it up.) Ordering tires from somewhere like Amazon (not knocking it, I do it all the time) is a bitch as you rarely have all the info on what you're ordering, exactly. There's 20 different varieties of the Saguaro on Vittoria's site, with three separate versions of the 29x2.2. Look at the chart listing all the Racing Ralph variations (http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/racing-ralph.html) - it's easy to see the differences in the tires in the chart, but try to pick one and find that exact tire on most sites (or even most shops) when all they know is you want a "Racing Ralph".
- The European shops always seem to do so much better at the Continentals, as well as finding the elusive RaceSport tires. Merlin has the X-Kings, but not the 29x2.2 X-King RaceSport, but Wiggle does.
- Someday I'll try the Saguaro again, sure seems like a great tire. Lately, though, I'm a bit fascinated by the plus size models... Husker Du, Bud, Lou, Juggernaut... sheesh, my tastes have changed. ^_^
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Maybe I just did not get the same model tire under the Vittoria name, like you said it is difficult to find an exact match with all the variations. All I can say is the tire I received was not of very high quality, not the 120tpi model for sure.
Now that you mention it, maybe I should have considered a set of 29+ tires.
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Now that you mention it, maybe I should have considered a set of 29+ tires.
That could be very cool - how big do you think you could go?
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On my IP-057 I measure 2.8mm clearance on the chainstays, 2.9 mm on the seatstays.
On my IP-036 I measure 2.9mm clearance on both the chainstays and seatstays.
So, I would guess the widest tire I would want is maybe 2.6mm to still have a little clearance on each side of the rear tire. Probably not true 29+ width though.
I could put on a Maxxis Minion Downhill tire, it's 2.5" wide but the darn tire weighs ~1300 grams, that's just a little less than both of my tires that are on the bike.
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Another tire that I wouldn't mind trying is the Hutchinson Toro Hardskin 2.35" 29er tire. Tread pattern looks good, it's decently wide, weight is reasonable, and is tubeless and UST compatible.
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Huh. I wasn't even aware that "29+" tires were a thing til you mentioned them but definitely interested in what the largest size tire that can be run on the 057.. One of the things I really liked about the Saguaros were that they were quite large and held a high volume of air.