Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: Izzy on April 13, 2014, 10:44:24 AM
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Hey guys.. Great forum idea, I could see this being a great resource in the future!
Total newb here, planning to jump in head first into my own carbon build. I was wondering if one of you guys could advise me on the differences between the IP 057 and the newer IP 256 frames?
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Hey Izzy.. Welcome to Chinertown! :D
The bulk of my knowledge lies more with the 057 frames.. I did read up on the 256 to decide that I'd think I'd rather just stick with the 057, for now. I believe the 256 is supposed to be lighter (and that's always tempting) and I did really like the more straight lines of the frame.. For me, it just came down to the fact that the 057 frame has been proven as being a solid frame. It's been on market long enough to have plenty of online feedback from owners.. Also.. I figured this has also given the manufacturers time to perfect the production process for this particular frame. While I'm sure that will also carry over into the 256.. It's just too new and too light for my weight of 210 lbs with riding gear on.
That said, I'd be willing to bet that I could have bought that 256 frame and tried to ride it into the ground and break it and not be able to. People tend to underestimate how strong carbon really is, myself included. It's really up to you if you want to be more of an "early adopter" or not. Odds are, the 256 would be a nicer, lighter option. Especially if your below 200lbs.
Sorry if that wasn't exactly what you're looking for Izzy.. I'll see if I can dig up a bit more information for you this evening
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Hey Sitar_Ned,
Thanks for the input. Yeah, Ive actually considered durability and the early adopter thing already.. still not sure what to make of it. I weigh probably 185lbs fully suited up.. I'm just not familiar enough with carbon to know what to look for.
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The safe bet is the IP-057 but if you really like the shape of the IP-256 I say go for it. You get a 2 yr warranty with the frame. As long as you don't plan on taking any big drops or long knarly downhill, I would expect for it to hold up well. The only possible weakness I see with the IP-256 is the seat post junction with the top tube and seat stays is really low making you run a lot of exposed seat post, you may want to plan on at least a 400mm long seat post.
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2 year warranty you say? I'd hope these guys would be good for it.
I actually didn't even notice the amount of exposed seat tube until you mentioned it. Now that you did.. kinda bothers me. May not even matter - after your ip-036 build thread, I am seriously consider going that route. Sweet bike man, congrats! Shopping around for shocks now..
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You may change your mind again when I post info and pics from last May when I built my IP-057.
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You may change your mind again when I post info and pics from last May when I built my IP-057.
haha.. very true! I'm also anxiously awaiting the Chinese carbon fat bikes..
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If you are going with one bike as an all-arounder, I would lean toward a FS --- I went with 057...happy with it....but, not going to have a stable of bikes a FS with lockouts would do overall.
If one knows what their goal in riding is: XC riding for example get the 057(or similar) and build as nice a bike as budget allows.
I know I went in thinking I could build a nicer bike, with nicer parts, for cheaper. Well, I got into it and went over budget.
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If you are going with one bike as an all-arounder, I would lean toward a FS --- I went with 057...happy with it....but, not going to have a stable of bikes a FS with lockouts would do overall.
If one knows what their goal in riding is: XC riding for example get the 057(or similar) and build as nice a bike as budget allows.
I know I went in thinking I could build a nicer bike, with nicer parts, for cheaper. Well, I got into it and went over budget.
I agree with you in that if I had only one bike, and rode mostly XC single track, a FM-057 hardtail is a great choice. The way the carbon smooths out the ride over my AL frame bike is simply amazing. With less fatigue and a lighter weight bike also comes more speed, which is why I'm even faster on my carbon bike than I ever was on my old Aluminium bikes, hardtail or full suspension.
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Well now that you bring up the ip 036 I'd say spend the few extra hundred bucks and go for the full suspension. I was a hard tail guy forever. loving the lightweight and efficiency of the platform BUT then I rode a good full suspension and fell in love. They are just so much easier on the body. They help you maintain traction and control. And now that they are so light with carbon I think they are well worth the extra cost. Especially with the reasonable pricing on the Chinese frames. Just food for thought.
Andy
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Well now that you bring up the ip 036 I'd say spend the few extra hundred bucks and go for the full suspension. I was a hard tail guy forever. loving the lightweight and efficiency of the platform BUT then I rode a good full suspension and fell in love. They are just so much easier on the body. They help you maintain traction and control. And now that they are so light with carbon I think they are well worth the extra cost. Especially with the reasonable pricing on the Chinese frames. Just food for thought.
Andy
I have only a few rides on my IP-036 but it's also a really good bike but did end up costing me more for the frame and rear shock, seems to do a really good job of keeping the rear in contact with the ground and under control.
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Hey guys.. Great forum idea, I could see this being a great resource in the future!
Total newb here, planning to jump in head first into my own carbon build. I was wondering if one of you guys could advise me on the differences between the IP 057 and the newer IP 256 frames?
The most of size of the 057 are in the stock now, but the 256, you have to wait many days.... about 50 days now..
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Hey guys.. Great forum idea, I could see this being a great resource in the future!
Total newb here, planning to jump in head first into my own carbon build. I was wondering if one of you guys could advise me on the differences between the IP 057 and the newer IP 256 frames?
The most of size of the 057 are in the stock now, but the 256, you have to wait many days.... about 50 days now..
Well that certainly will make my decision easier.. I actually havn't checked with them recently about what's in stick, and what's not..
Mind if I ask where you got this info, and if it applies to all of the sites that are selling the 256?
Either way, thanks for the heads up.
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Well that certainly will make my decision easier.. I actually havn't checked with them recently about what's in stick, and what's not..
Mind if I ask where you got this info, and if it applies to all of the sites that are selling the 256?
Either way, thanks for the heads up.
Judging by the way that post was written.. I think it's possible that might be one of the chindors themselves.. Maybe not, but if it is..
You guys should just register under the username "HongFu_Bikes" or "Iplay_Carbon", or whatever you prefer.. and put a banner in your sig leading to your site. No reason to be undercover. Also, if you guys want help translating something into English... Feel free to message me. I'll even put it in sales copy format.
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Has anyone seen a ride report on the -256? I've seen plenty of remarks about it and a few pictures of builds on the Weight Weenies forum, but no one saying how it rides.
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BertZhong is his name. He works for XMIPlay. We just don't hear of many people dealing with him directly like Peter.
It would be easy to follow if the vendors had one login(like Sitar said) and they used that.
No one is charging anything here that I know of to not use your companies name.
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BertZhong is his name. He works for XMIPlay. We just don't hear of many people dealing with him directly like Peter.
It would be easy to follow if the vendors had one login(like Sitar said) and they used that.
No one is charging anything here that I know of to not use your companies name.
Yes.. this exactly, brmeyer. I think they are just used to being somewhat "undercover" over at mtbr, or something. Also, due to the language and cultural barrier, it may be more difficult for many of them than it is for Peter who is fairly affluent in English. I'm just guessing here.. really not sure.
That said.. If I owned Hongfu, Carbonality, or Iplay.. I'd have an account named Carbonality Bikes and I'd answer every stupid repetitive question that was asked about these carbon frames.. then I'd upload videos of thorough product strength and quality testing and of manufacturing processes. Have a link to Carbonality.com in my sig.. Chinertown membership is still small so maybe they think it's not worth the time and effort... but they are missing the point... people would seek them out simply for information they can't find elsewhere.
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After going back and forth for a couple of days I ordered the -057. The biggest reason is that I didn't want to wait 45 days (or more), but it also seems that the weight difference is not as much as advertised. Some posters in the mtbr thread are reporting total weights around 1060 g; per Peter the 890 g weight does not include any of the alloy parts. It's still around 200 g lighter, but I decided that wasn't worth the extra $160 or the extra 45 days. So now I need to find some lighter tires with that money. :)
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See how you like the IP-057 frame and in six months when the IP-256 becomes more available, order one of those, move your components over, and sell your IP-057. I'm sure it won't be difficult to sell.
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After going back and forth for a couple of days I ordered the -057. The biggest reason is that I didn't want to wait 45 days (or more), but it also seems that the weight difference is not as much as advertised. Some posters in the mtbr thread are reporting total weights around 1060 g; per Peter the 890 g weight does not include any of the alloy parts. It's still around 200 g lighter, but I decided that wasn't worth the extra $160 or the extra 45 days. So now I need to find some lighter tires with that money. :)
I think I'm with you. $160 is quite a difference considering the frame's price tag. An increase of 30% or more.
No way. I hope these Chinese carbon guys realize the only reason that we're here is the low price. As demand goes up, an increase in price usually follows but there will be a limit on that effect in this particular market. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out.
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I ordered my IP-256SL frame on the 24th of April. Today I got the message that the frame won't be shipped before 22th of June. At ordering-time, I knew there were some production issue's and that they're working on it. I'm not in a hurry, but this is very long. :'(
I made the decision for this frame because:
- Nice direct mount for the front derailleur, E-type2. Going for 2x10.
- Pull down system
- Weights (1040 gr for 19")
- The looks
This frame is more expensive than the IP-057, but I think it's really worth it.
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It will be interesting t see everyone's build when the receive their frame. i was one of the first to order a Large IP-057 last year and waited about 6 weeks for my frame to arrive, totally worth the wait.
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I ordered my IP-256SL frame on the 24th of April. Today I got the message that the frame won't be shipped before 22th of June. At ordering-time, I knew there were some production issue's and that they're working on it. I'm not in a hurry, but this is very long. :'(
I made the decision for this frame because:
- Nice direct mount for the front derailleur, E-type2. Going for 2x10.
- Pull down system
- Weights (1040 gr for 19")
- The looks
This frame is more expensive than the IP-057, but I think it's really worth it.
That is a pretty long wait, but if you currently have a bike and that's the frame you want then I say wait it out.
The lighter weight would be the main thing that would convince me to go for the 256. When I was shopping for my frame, I hesitant to consider the 256 bc I assumed heavier equals stronger and being new to not only the carbon mtb scene, but also the Chinese carbon scene.. I think I was illogically concerned with the strength of the lighter frame. The more I ride mine and trust it.. The more I feel like I would have absolutely no hesitations going for the lighter 256.
I say if you don't mind the delay.. You made the right decision. The 256 is still very good price for a carbon frame that barely breaks the 1000 gram mark.
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I am surprised this thread has no pictures, I can fix that:
IP-256
(http://www.xmiplay.com/Upload/images/IP-256-29ER%20(10).jpg)
IP-057
(http://www.xmiplay.com/Upload/images/nEO_IMG_IMG_3584.jpg)
The two frames look very similar, however, the junction of the seat stays at the seat tube is very different as well as the diameter of the top tube and down tube appears to be smaller on the IP-256. I'd be very interesting in riding a bike that has the new frame to see how differently the IP-256 rides. If I were buying a new frame today, I'd seriously consider the IP-256 if I was not in a hurry to build a new bike.
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I've got some more pictures of the IP-256
(please ignore all cable bolts, this frame was previous in two flavour, one with external cable routing and one with internal cable routing. Only the last one, with all internal cable routing, is available):
(http://s1.postimg.org/fw349p9lr/IMG_6675.jpg)
(http://s29.postimg.org/yr29pymk7/IMG_6676.jpg)
(http://s8.postimg.org/558fmwket/IMG_6677.jpg)
(http://s29.postimg.org/n5wovzqgn/IMG_6678.jpg)
(http://s11.postimg.org/qbkh1wkqr/IMG_6680.jpg)
(http://s12.postimg.org/5r2qdl1pp/IMG_6684.jpg)
(http://s16.postimg.org/tihv4w5ut/IMG_6687.jpg)
(http://s14.postimg.org/vgv5eamdd/IP_256_29_ER.jpg)
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Looking at the frame design with a mechanical engineer's eye, I would not think the "Y "or wishbone design of the seat stay junction with the seat tube would be the strongest way to make that connection. I much prefer the IP-057 or other frames that allow the seat stays to flow into the junction for added strength.
However, this design could allow for more flex in the frame, the shape is almost a tuning fork design. Now I want to look around and see if there are any big brands that have a similar frame design in that area.
Since I don't run a front derailleur the direct mount that the IP-256 would not be needed for me. I've asked Peter when I ordered my IP-036 if they could delete the FD mounting and I was told they needed to put it on all frames they have manufactured, too bad for me I guess but it would be nice if I could specify things like that and deletion of the cable routing tabs on the underside of the down tube that are on my IP-036.
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Hmmm. Interesting observation Carbon_Dude, and I appreciate having the view point of a mechanical engineer.
I agree that the more "tuning fork" design of the 256 could either be a positive or a negative. Negative if it's weaker, positive if it provides some compliance.
One thing is for sure, I think the 256 has cleaner lines, and just has better overall aesthetics than the 057 (sorry SN and CD :) ) especially in the headtube area.
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One thing is for sure, I think the 256 has cleaner lines, and just has better overall aesthetics than the 057 (sorry SN and CD :) ) especially in the headtube area.
How dare you speak of my chiner like that! ;D
Yeah.. I'd have to reluctantly agree. The headtube looks less "bulbous" or something... More streamlined, for sure.
I do agree with CD though in that i think I def prefer the seat stay design of the 057. I too am interested in how it would affect compliance of the rear end.
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I agree, other than the different junction at the seat post, it's a very good looking frame.
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Is it possible to use a 2.35 Racing Ralf in the 256?
If so I will order a Rear wheel with 30 mm ID, if not I will get one with a smaller ID.
In either case I will get a 30 mm ID front wheel.
I don't understand that you will have more exposed seat post on the 256 than on the 57.
I looked at the drawing of both bikes and don't get it...
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Hi All, my first post here.
Did you check http://honsenbikes.com/product_list.asp?id=371
It ressemble furiously to the IP-256, but Honsen Bikes seems to build them.
Someone called Leo answered all my questions.
Quickly in general. Altough sometimes with a delay of a day or so.
I ordered it last week, and now waiting.
Leo said 4 weeks lead time.
The wheels are coming from light-bicycle.com, due in a week or so.
The drive train, brakes, etc. from bike24.com
And a lefty + steerer from project321.com
I will keep you posted on arrival.
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Lefty and carbon wheels on a 256 frame will be a nice light bike. Look forward to seeing it.
And yes, that is the same frame. I also added honsen bikes to the vendor list. If you get a chance, please leave a review of your experience with honsen bikes.. we currently only have a review for Iplay, would be great if you could add your buying experiences from another vendor. Thanks.
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Did you check http://honsenbikes.com/product_list.asp?id=371
It ressemble furiously to the IP-256, but Honsen Bikes seems to build them.
I ordered it last week, and now waiting.
Leo said 4 weeks lead time.
I will keep you posted on arrival.
Perhaps we get some competition and lower prices of the 256 .
I emailed them for a quote.
The frame seems identical to Iplays one, the only difference I could find is the use of T1000 carbon instead of T800
And 950 gr is a bit more realistic, I asked them what a 19"would weigh.
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There are a few things that hold me back from getting a 256:
- more expensive then the proven IP057
- no reports on 256's tire clearance yet
- a 19" will probably be close to 1100 gr so not that much lighter then a IP057 of the same size
- I don't like the cover under the Bottom Bracket. The IP057 does fine without.It seems to be an ad hoc solution to a problem they ran into.
- I want to run 1X10 and don't like the Direct Mount for the FD
- Pay now and wait two months! for delivery.
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There are a few things that hold me back from getting a 256:
- more expensive then the proven IP057
- no reports on 256's tire clearance yet
- a 19" will probably be close to 1100 gr so not that much lighter then a IP057 of the same size
- I don't like the cover under the Bottom Bracket. The IP057 does fine without.It seems to be an ad hoc solution to a problem they ran into.
- I want to run 1X10 and don't like the Direct Mount for the FD
- Pay now and wait two months! for delivery.
I ordered the ip256. 19" weights 1040gr. I don't like the cover under the bb also, but the quality is good.
Honesbike have the same price as iplay. I asked them already. But higher shipping costs, resp. 120 usd and 93 usd.
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There are a few things that hold me back from getting a 256:
- more expensive then the proven IP057
- no reports on 256's tire clearance yet
- a 19" will probably be close to 1100 gr so not that much lighter then a IP057 of the same size
- I don't like the cover under the Bottom Bracket. The IP057 does fine without.It seems to be an ad hoc solution to a problem they ran into.
- I want to run 1X10 and don't like the Direct Mount for the FD
- Pay now and wait two months! for delivery.
Pretty much my exact thought process when I purchased my 057.
The fact that the 256 looks better to me and is a bit lighter just wasn't enough to sway me. That said, Ididn't already have a bike, so waiting 2 months was out of the question for me.. a lighter frame would be sweet though.
That cover under the bottom bracket, and the way the seatstays connect to the seattube in that wishbone intersection - I am not a fan of.
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That cover under the bottom bracket, and the way the seatstays connect to the seattube in that wishbone intersection - I am not a fan of.
Today I asked Peter (iPlay / XMIPlay ) how reliable this construction is. And he insured me it's really reliable. And we all know iPlay stand for their quality and if there're problems, he will solve it.
So, I think we don't have to worry ...
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There are a few things that hold me back from getting a 256:
- more expensive then the proven IP057
- no reports on 256's tire clearance yet
- a 19" will probably be close to 1100 gr so not that much lighter then a IP057 of the same size
- I don't like the cover under the Bottom Bracket. The IP057 does fine without.It seems to be an ad hoc solution to a problem they ran into.
- I want to run 1X10 and don't like the Direct Mount for the FD
- Pay now and wait two months! for delivery.
If that helps, in a drawing from Honsen, there is a tire of 58.4mm width.
It looks to be the maximum.
Although I shared your concerns on the FD mount and the bottom cover.
I ordered it from Honsen, as they look to be the ones who build/design it.
And their lead time was shorter(...hopefully).
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There are a few things that hold me back from getting a 256:
- more expensive then the proven IP057
- no reports on 256's tire clearance yet
- a 19" will probably be close to 1100 gr so not that much lighter then a IP057 of the same size
- I don't like the cover under the Bottom Bracket. The IP057 does fine without.It seems to be an ad hoc solution to a problem they ran into.
- I want to run 1X10 and don't like the Direct Mount for the FD
- Pay now and wait two months! for delivery.
If that helps, in a drawing from Honsen, there is a tire of 58.4mm width.
It looks to be the maximum.
Although I shared your concerns on the FD mount and the bottom cover.
I ordered it from Honsen, as they look to be the ones who build/design it.
And their lead time was shorter(...hopefully).
We will have the frames available in 7 days from now on. And the frame was not designed by Honsen, it was designed by our factory. Iplay showed IP-256 SL in the first place last year when the frame hasn't been available, because I think this super light model frame should be the most popular one in future.
And the guys ordered from Iplay months ago, and there was some problem with the production arrangement, so the lead time was long. If you ordered the frame from us on June 1st, I will ship the package to you in 2 weeks, because the availablity is getting normal now.
Anyway I hope you can get the frame ASAP and love it.
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That cover under the bottom bracket, and the way the seatstays connect to the seattube in that wishbone intersection - I am not a fan of.
Today I asked Peter (iPlay / XMIPlay ) how reliable this construction is. And he insured me it's really reliable. And we all know iPlay stand for their quality and if there're problems, he will solve it.
So, I think we don't have to worry ...
I'm quite certain that you will never even remember that the cover is there.
Just saying.. I'd rather it not be there.
Also saying.. My bike is better than yours!! ;D
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Honsen's version is made of T1000 carbon fiber. Is this preferable to T800 or would it even be noticeable?
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There are a few things that hold me back from getting a 256:
- more expensive then the proven IP057
- no reports on 256's tire clearance yet
- a 19" will probably be close to 1100 gr so not that much lighter then a IP057 of the same size
- I don't like the cover under the Bottom Bracket. The IP057 does fine without.It seems to be an ad hoc solution to a problem they ran into.
- I want to run 1X10 and don't like the Direct Mount for the FD
- Pay now and wait two months! for delivery.
If that helps, in a drawing from Honsen, there is a tire of 58.4mm width.
It looks to be the maximum.
Although I shared your concerns on the FD mount and the bottom cover.
I ordered it from Honsen, as they look to be the ones who build/design it.
And their lead time was shorter(...hopefully).
We will have the frames available in 7 days from now on. And the frame was not designed by Honsen, it was designed by our factory. Iplay showed IP-256 SL in the first place last year when the frame hasn't been available, because I think this super light model frame should be the most popular one in future.
And the guys ordered from Iplay months ago, and there was some problem with the production arrangement, so the lead time was long. If you ordered the frame from us on June 1st, I will ship the package to you in 2 weeks, because the availablity is getting normal now.
Anyway I hope you can get the frame ASAP and love it.
Sorry for the mistake, Peter, thanks for the clarification.
This is good for you the lead time is shorter now.
Copyright seems managed very differently in China than in US/Europe.
You design. Other build. And everything looks fine.
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Yeah it'd be cool to understand the copyright laws in China.. I mean are their literally NO restrictions and copyright laws, or what?
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I'm contemplating a 256 but running it with Iplay's thru axle rigid fork. I weight 175 lbs and will be riding flat, rooty singletrack and fire roads. Does anybody have any thoughts on which of the 057 or 256 is best suited to this type of riding? Look forward to hearing from you!
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I'm contemplating a 256 but running it with Iplay's thru axle rigid fork. I weight 175 lbs and will be riding flat, rooty singletrack and fire roads. Does anybody have any thoughts on which of the 057 or 256 is best suited to this type of riding? Look forward to hearing from you!
The reason why I ordered an IP-256 is because the weight (19"= 1040 gr) and the direct mount for the front derailleur. I'm going ride this bike with 2x10.
When I had choose for 1x10 or 1x11, I had choosen the IP-057, 200-250 gr heavier, but a lot cheaper.
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I'm contemplating a 256 but running it with Iplay's thru axle rigid fork. I weight 175 lbs and will be riding flat, rooty singletrack and fire roads. Does anybody have any thoughts on which of the 057 or 256 is best suited to this type of riding? Look forward to hearing from you!
Either bike would do the job, I really would not think that the frame geometry of either of those two frames would make much of a difference for flat root single track and fire roads. I'd say make your decision based on other attributes, like price, availability, ETT, cable routing, etc.
However, I've not done a side by side comparison ride between the two frames. Someday we need to have a big Chinertown meet up so everyone can ride all the various open mold Chinese framed bikes.
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256 availability update - Peter quoted 35-45 days for 15.5" BSA 135mm UD matte overnight!!!!
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One big step today.
The wheels were sent last Friday from China and arrived this afternoon in Belgium.
29er - 30mm hookless, in 3k matt.
The front with a Project321 Lefty hub.
The rear with a Hope Pro2 Evo to put the XX1 on it.
The set weights 1530g.
I'm very happy of light-bicycle.com (http://light-bicycle.com)
First as they were the only one to provide this combo without asking me to provide the hubs.
Then Nancy was very patient, and answered all my, and sometimes stupid, questions.
And Kartrin did all the administration and shipment details.
And finally the set looks perfect.
The only missing part now is the frame.
But Leo ( from Honsen Bikes ) told me it should be shipped very soon, as planned.
The bad news, is I didn't care about dates, and have some vacations planned for early July.
So I'll have to leave all this sleeping for a couple of weeks :(
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Those wheels look sweet! Which frame did you order again?
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The HM-256 http://honsenbikes.com/product_list.asp?id=371
Which is very similar to the IP-256 discussed here.
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Not just similar, they are the same. FM = HongFu (and others), IP = XMIplay.
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The HM-256 http://honsenbikes.com/product_list.asp?id=371
Which is very similar to the IP-256 discussed here.
Yes, not just similar, they are same. Actually, it is illegal to use T1000 for any factory, because T1000 is only legal to use for military in China. It is impossible for any factory or any private person to use these top end carbon fiber sheet. So we never declare our frames are made with T1000.
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The Honsen website is also terribly slow. Looks like just another me too trading company that also posts false information if they say they are using T1000 carbon when, according to Peter, is unlikely since no Chinese manufacturers have access to T1000 carbon.
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The Honsen website is also terribly slow. Looks like just another me too trading company that also posts false information if they say they are using T1000 carbon when, according to Peter, is unlikely since no Chinese manufacturers have access to T1000 carbon.
SO is Honsen advertising T1000 but these frames aren't actually T1000 carbon? Or are these frames T1000 carbon and Iplay is more careful than Honsen when listing descriptions on their sites?
Somebody should make a sticky thread specifically about the different kinds of carbon fiber - where each kind is usually used, the different properties of each one, etc. I would but I'm totally clueless.
And that is an absolutely ridiculously nice wheel set there, carbonazza.
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The Honsen website is also terribly slow. Looks like just another me too trading company that also posts false information if they say they are using T1000 carbon when, according to Peter, is unlikely since no Chinese manufacturers have access to T1000 carbon.
May be we can give Honsen the benefit of the doubt.
Until we see what kind of frame I get.
So far, everything looks to go well.
Ok, the moment of truth will come after my first big jump, ending on a sharp corner.
T1000 and T800 is just the stiffness of the carbon fiber.
The fiber/resin fraction, and how the sheets are layered in the various parts of the frames are more important.
My choice may look odd today. But end of May, I was turned off by Peter when he told me there was nobody building wheels with Lefty's hubs in... China.
This didn't give me a trusty image as I just saw a couple of hours later that light-bicycle was building them.
Then from the posts on mtbr at that time, the leading time for the IP-256 was quite worrying.
They did not even reply to the people who ordered them anymore.
So I tried Honsen as Leo was responsive and very competent too.
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I was/am worried about the lead time on the IP-256 (HM-256) as I really wanted to have the bike done by the middle of August for a race in September. Even that is cutting it close. I ordered 3 large frames from IPlay so I guess we'll see what happens. I won't be selling my current MTB in the mean time! Peter was telling us ~30 days production, plus paint, plus shipping. So probably 45-60 days. But I hope for sooner!
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May be we can give Honsen the benefit of the doubt.
Until we see what kind of frame I get.
So far, everything looks to go well.
Ok, the moment of truth will come after my first big jump, ending on a sharp corner.
T1000 and T800 is just the stiffness of the carbon fiber.
The fiber/resin fraction, and how the sheets are layered in the various parts of the frames are more important.
My choice may look odd today. But end of May, I was turned off by Peter when he told me there was nobody building wheels with Lefty's hubs in... China.
This didn't give me a trusty image as I just saw a couple of hours later that light-bicycle was building them.
Then from the posts on mtbr at that time, the leading time for the IP-256 was quite worrying.
They did not even reply to the people who ordered them anymore.
So I tried Honsen as Leo was responsive and very competent too.
Your choice doesn't look odd at all. Especially concerning the wheels. The fact that Light-Bicycle can provide the hubs you want without having to ship them to them is a huge bonus.
As for the frame, I too remember when lead times were either too long or really just unknown. I suspect Iplay was encountering some serious growing pains at the time, and I'm sure they learned a thing or two bc of it. If I was them I would just post in the vendor section of chinertown and keep everyone updated all at once. Make a thread called IP-256 status and updates or something like that.
Doesn't really matter who produces the frames, that's the whole point of buying direct. All we care about is price, quality, and customer service. Quality is the same. Price is the same. All that was left was customer service.. and all things considered. Your choice makes sense to me. It is a bit of a turn off for me if Honsen is advertising T1000 and it's only T800, just as it was a turn off to you when you felt mislead.
And yeah, those wheels are bad ass.
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The T800s are heavy , and formidable but what you see is what you get.
The T1000 is a mimetic poly alloy. It can form simple shapes like blades , or bike frames. Its amazing what Skynet has done with carbon liquid metal composites.
oh and on topic sweet wheel. I admire the patience you guys have. The turnaround times are brutal for these new frames. Hopefully well worth it. ;D
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Oh noes! Will dogs be able to identify these frames and warn us? 8)
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What? We can't ride over molten steel with the 256!
That is a clear advantage for the 057.
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What? We can't ride over molten steel with the 256!
That is a clear advantage for the 057.
Agreed. Zombie apocalypse is just around the corner. 057 with Chinese carbon pistol mount for my Glock 9mm for me please! (that actually would be pretty cool lol)
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May be we can give Honsen the benefit of the doubt.
Until we see what kind of frame I get.
So far, everything looks to go well.
Ok, the moment of truth will come after my first big jump, ending on a sharp corner.
T1000 and T800 is just the stiffness of the carbon fiber.
The fiber/resin fraction, and how the sheets are layered in the various parts of the frames are more important.
My choice may look odd today. But end of May, I was turned off by Peter when he told me there was nobody building wheels with Lefty's hubs in... China.
This didn't give me a trusty image as I just saw a couple of hours later that light-bicycle was building them.
Then from the posts on mtbr at that time, the leading time for the IP-256 was quite worrying.
They did not even reply to the people who ordered them anymore.
So I tried Honsen as Leo was responsive and very competent too.
Why I told you nobody building wheels with lefty's hubs in China is I have never seen anyone has these hubs available to build the wheels, maybe you don't know Light-Bicycle doesn't share their things with other factories or companies, even we both located in Xiamen, they think we are competitors. Or you can ask Hongfu, Miracle or any other company if they have the lefty hub available or not, except LB.
About the lead time for IP-256 frames, I think almost guys know Iplay firstly mentioned and made these frames sold last year, this is the newest model, so the lead time mainly depends on factory. Now the production for this frame is getting regular and we start to ship frames to customers, the lead time from Honsen is short when you ordered yours from them relatively.
We ship items what we have in stock to customers in the first place.
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Thanks for the feedback, Peter! :)
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Peter, the light-bicycle.com web site is public, they do not hide anything.
http://www.light-bicycle.com/the-more-detail-about-hubs-MTB-hub-and-road-hub.html
I related what happened, as it may help some people know there is a lefty compatible wheel builder.
Don't worry, you are by far the darling of this forum. It just didn't work between us.
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Hi carbonazza,
You know what, LB website doesn't work if you are in China, when you click their website link, you will see like attachment. I didn't lie. But happy for all, their is a lefty wheel builder here in China.
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Wow... Hidden websites, frame clones, military vs. aerospace grade carbon, etc.
Buying a X-256 is definitely a much more entertaining experience than simply opening the door of our LBS.
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^^Lol
I'm glad to see it looks like it was a genuine misunderstanding.
So does Light-Bicycle purposely block their website from being viewed in China, or is it blocked by the great firewall of China, that also blocks Facebook, Twitter, and I think pretty much all other western social media sites?
Reading this conversation made me realize something I had been confused about for a while.. I couldn't figure out why none of these Chinese carbon manufacturers hadn't starting at least trying to leverage social media to drive sales. Now I realize it's bc they can't - It is blocked from their entire country. Correct me if I'm wrong, Peter.
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Interesting.... although for some reason I always felt like businesses and the affluent can just pay their way into a full web.
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Hope one day I'ill buy one of these. With carbon hookless wheels and Fox fork.
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Has anyone ridden one of these with rigid forks? I've noticed the geo charts tend to be based around tall a-c forks (500) whereas I have Niner forks with an a-c of 470, which will drop the BB around 11mm. I'm a bit concerned it'll ruin the handling of the bike...
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jonxmack, Not sure if that may help you, but someone posted this on mtbr:
http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-650b/chinese-carbon-frames-650b-edition-820784-15.html#post11082757
The 196 looks to be the 650b equivalent of the 256 frame.
I PM'ed him yesterday, and 3+ months later, he really loves is bike with the rigid fork.
From what I understood, I don't think putting a shorter fork is about dropping the BB a few millimetres.
But you are nearer to a wheel of a shopping cart. Making the bike more unstable.
While putting a too long fork, the bike will be harder to turn.
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Problem is a lot of the Chinese forks have a long A2C, the crown on the ones in that dudes photos is huge), wheres my Niners are pretty low. Measured them today they're actually 480 which is only 6mm less than an 80mm SID so I think I might be okay.
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Just seen Yoeleo do the 256 too, it does say it's in stock but apparently there can be a delay on the UD Matte stuff according to a mate of mine who has ordered some stuff from there.
http://www.yoeleobike.com/super-light-bb93-29er-carbon-frame-for-mountain-bike.html
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So with free shipping to the US, Yeoleo is $660, not sure if they charge anything extra for payment via Paypal. I wonder if that would be cheaper than XMIplay? Not that I'm interested in purchasing an IP-256, just wondering how aggressive their pricing is. I do like their website selection and checkout process.
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I emailed Peter yesterday and got the following price for a 256.
IP-256 SL frame [17.5", BSA, UD matt, 142x12] $560
NECO/Iplay headset $15
Extra rear derailleur hanger $20
Chainstay protector $2
Shipping by EMS $80 USD
4% commission to PayPal
(560+15+20+2+80)x1.04 = $704.08
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So is there a preferred vendor when I comes to price and reliability? :o
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Peter @ IPlay
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anybody had any issues with the replaceable dropouts on either 057 or 256. I look at the thickness of the carbon flanges and the screws that hold the dropouts on and it makes me a little uneasy. As compared to the frames that have dedicated QR permanent dropouts.
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I have not had any problems, nor have I read about anyone else who has had any problems with the rear drop outs on the Chiner frames. Both of mine have 12x142 thru axle. The drop outs fit nicely and screw down through the frame to the other side of the dropout. It should not be a concern you need to worry about.
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Regardless if you chose IP-057 or IP-256, or even some other model, I highly recommend the following options when people order their frame:
Bottom bracket --> My recommendation is to choose BSA if possible.
BSA has proven reliability, large bearing surfaces, works with most all crank options, no press tools required, far fewer instances of creaking or bearing problems.
UD/3K/12k carbon weave --> UD is said to be the lightest but is very plain looking (no weave), 3k is the typical, classic, tight carbon weave pattern and is what I like, 12k is a wide weave. See picture below:
(http://www.clinchercarbonwheels.com/media/weave/frame-finish.jpg)
Matte/Glossy Finish: This is personal preference, both look great.
Don't forget, many of the Chinese vendors will also paint your frame a custom color/pattern for around $75 extra. Rather than getting a plain black frame, consider a custom paint job, they have some great colors available.
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Regardless if you chose IP-057 or IP-256, or even some other model, I highly recommend the following options when people order their frame:
Bottom bracket --> My recommendation is to choose BSA if possible.
BSA has proven reliability, large bearing surfaces, works with most all crank options, no press tools required, far fewer instances of creaking or bearing problems.
UD/3K/12k carbon weave --> UD is said to be the lightest but is very plain looking (no weave), 3k is the typical, classic, tight carbon weave pattern and is what I like, 12k is a wide weave. See picture below:
(http://www.clinchercarbonwheels.com/media/weave/frame-finish.jpg)
Matte/Glossy Finish: This is personal preference, both look great.
Don't forget, many of the Chinese vendors will also paint your frame a custom color/pattern for around $75 extra. Rather than getting a plain black frame, consider a custom paint job, they have some great colors available.
Two questions:
1.) My mechanic friend tells me PF30 is the better BB style to use. Is it generally passed over by most due to needing press tools to install the cups/bearings?
2.) Are all of these bikes built with a UD base weave, then the top most layer is customized for the look of certain weaves? I heard that UD was the strongest of the weaves, and thats why most new CF bikes are UD?
-
Regardless if you chose IP-057 or IP-256, or even some other model, I highly recommend the following options when people order their frame:
Bottom bracket --> My recommendation is to choose BSA if possible.
BSA has proven reliability, large bearing surfaces, works with most all crank options, no press tools required, far fewer instances of creaking or bearing problems.
UD/3K/12k carbon weave --> UD is said to be the lightest but is very plain looking (no weave), 3k is the typical, classic, tight carbon weave pattern and is what I like, 12k is a wide weave. See picture below:
(http://www.clinchercarbonwheels.com/media/weave/frame-finish.jpg)
Matte/Glossy Finish: This is personal preference, both look great.
Don't forget, many of the Chinese vendors will also paint your frame a custom color/pattern for around $75 extra. Rather than getting a plain black frame, consider a custom paint job, they have some great colors available.
Two questions:
1.) My mechanic friend tells me PF30 is the better BB style to use. Is it generally passed over by most due to needing press tools to install the cups/bearings?
2.) Are all of these bikes built with a UD base weave, then the top most layer is customized for the look of certain weaves? I heard that UD was the strongest of the weaves, and thats why most new CF bikes are UD?
I still recommend to everyone to stay away from PF bottom brackets, they are more difficult to perform routine maintenance and there have been plenty reports of creaking BB as well as bearings wearing out prematurely. Maybe your mechanic friend sees better implementations of the press fit bottom brackets, but for the Chiner frames, I'd stick with the proven BSA threaded bottom bracket. Easy to service and compatible with most any brand of crankset.
Yes, I believe that is correct for the carbon layers, they are UD (or actually UD layers applied at 90 deg angles) with a UD, 3k, or 12k layer as the outer layer (actually it's the first layer put into the mold). I have one frame that is UD the other 3k, both look good but the 3k weave is more what most people think of when they see carbon fiber. If you are getting the entire frame painted, I'd go with UD as it won't matter what the top layer looks like before painting.
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I went with UD topweave with gloss coating to save money on black paint :D
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Regardless if you chose IP-057 or IP-256, or even some other model, I highly recommend the following options when people order their frame:
Bottom bracket --> My recommendation is to choose BSA if possible.
BSA has proven reliability, large bearing surfaces, works with most all crank options, no press tools required, far fewer instances of creaking or bearing problems.
UD/3K/12k carbon weave --> UD is said to be the lightest but is very plain looking (no weave), 3k is the typical, classic, tight carbon weave pattern and is what I like, 12k is a wide weave. See picture below:
(http://www.clinchercarbonwheels.com/media/weave/frame-finish.jpg)
Matte/Glossy Finish: This is personal preference, both look great.
Don't forget, many of the Chinese vendors will also paint your frame a custom color/pattern for around $75 extra. Rather than getting a plain black frame, consider a custom paint job, they have some great colors available.
Two questions:
1.) My mechanic friend tells me PF30 is the better BB style to use. Is it generally passed over by most due to needing press tools to install the cups/bearings?
2.) Are all of these bikes built with a UD base weave, then the top most layer is customized for the look of certain weaves? I heard that UD was the strongest of the weaves, and thats why most new CF bikes are UD?
Hi, actually, ud is lighter than 3K, it is hard to say ud and 3k which one is stronger. it is depend on the construction of frame. and most of frames, we use 3k on the corner to strengthen the frame.
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Hello
Will the CS-057 and OHR930C rims work with the SRAM GX Eagle 12 speed with a 38T front ring?
Thank you
John
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Regardless if you chose IP-057 or IP-256, or even some other model, I highly recommend the following options when people order their frame:
Bottom bracket --> My recommendation is to choose BSA if possible.
BSA has proven reliability, large bearing surfaces, works with most all crank options, no press tools required, far fewer instances of creaking or bearing problems.
UD/3K/12k carbon weave --> UD is said to be the lightest but is very plain looking (no weave), 3k is the typical, classic, tight carbon weave pattern and is what I like, 12k is a wide weave. See picture below:
(http://www.clinchercarbonwheels.com/media/weave/frame-finish.jpg)
Matte/Glossy Finish: This is personal preference, both look great.
Don't forget, many of the Chinese vendors will also paint your frame a custom color/pattern for around $75 extra. Rather than getting a plain black frame, consider a custom paint job, they have some great colors available.
Two questions:
1.) My mechanic friend tells me PF30 is the better BB style to use. Is it generally passed over by most due to needing press tools to install the cups/bearings?
2.) Are all of these bikes built with a UD base weave, then the top most layer is customized for the look of certain weaves? I heard that UD was the strongest of the weaves, and thats why most new CF bikes are UD?
BSA is also easier to live with if you have internal cable routing and need to install new ones.