Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: d34n on June 01, 2015, 02:23:00 PM
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Does any supplier have these frames yet? Flirting with the idea of a big 29er.
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Haven't seen any Chendors with a 29+ frame. Just 26, 27.5, 29, and Fatbike in the offroad choices.
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That's what I thought. Maybe one day.
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Does any supplier have these frames yet? Flirting with the idea of a big 29er.
Few options:
1. Hardtail fat bike frame. But different rear hub size and BB. And probably other caveats.
2. Get any carbon frame and modify it yourself. AFAK nobody has done it so far.
3. Convince someone at China side to make something that people want. Only very minor modifications to molds are required.
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Options #4. DIY. The whole bike. There's a guy on youtube who made a CF TT bike bike for $160 ...and >100 hours. For a FS mtb bike I think it will be 3x more time.
youtube.com/watch?v=hDnH9_Q4ijE
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Wait, what? People are actually making their own CF frames DIY style? That's pretty cool. Not sure I'd do it myself but still interesting. Had no clue.
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I saw the vid and you really need some serious number of hours if you are doing a DIY frame shocking part for me was it was made in 2009.
I think after this year the plus size frames will take off after which we might see chiner plus frames.
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So, 29+ is a 29er with 50mm width rims and 3 inch tires, correct?
How much heavier are the wheels compared to an average 29er wheel? How much lighter compared to average fat bike wheels?
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Vee Rubber makes a 3.0 29er tire. How would such a large tire ride? Its gotta be slow. I rode a Foes Mutz for a day...and while the big tire fun factor (great on really rough descents!) was high...its still a slow accelerating and not so nimble bike. A 650+ tire is about the same size as a 29x2.3. My buddy rode his Trek Farley on our hard pack trails was struggling on the climbs.
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What about a standard 29er frame and running 27.5+ wheels?
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So, 29+ is a 29er with 50mm width rims and 3 inch tires, correct?
How much heavier are the wheels compared to an average 29er wheel? How much lighter compared to average fat bike wheels?
My previous Stan's Flow Ex 29er wheelset weighs 2100grams. Hope Evo 2 Pro hubs. 25.5mm internal width.
My current carbon wheelset 50mm outer/45mm inner width, Novatec D881/882 hubs, Pillar 1420 spokes weigh 1800 grams. So 300 grams lighter!
There are two versions of 50mm rims, one is ~50g lighter and they say its 120kg max rider weight, I went for stronger and heavier version, 200kg max rider weight.
Bought the whole wheelset in Q2Cycling. Highly recommend them.
http://www.shop-q2cycling.com/FAT-RIM/pro-p8518.html
I'm 110kg geared up, I like uphills more then downhills, sometimes manage to take 2nd or 3rd place in local races (>30 riders in my group and I'm the oldest). For me these wheels are faster overal. Exactly the same time on my benchmark climbing route and much faster down.
My bike is Giant Trance X 29er 2013. Maxxis Chronicle front, Maxxis Ardent 2.4 rear. So its like 75% of a proper 29+ bike.
I went further then just 'flirting' but so far have no proper frame.
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Vee Rubber makes a 3.0 29er tire. How would such a large tire ride? Its gotta be slow. I rode a Foes Mutz for a day...and while the big tire fun factor (great on really rough descents!) was high...its still a slow accelerating and not so nimble bike. A 650+ tire is about the same size as a 29x2.3. My buddy rode his Trek Farley on our hard pack trails was struggling on the climbs.
The bike you rode is just a fat bike. Not 29+ bike. It is different. People usually assume that 3.0 inch tires equals a fat bike tires but it is not. I haven't ride a fat bike so far but for me 3.0 tires are as fast as 2.4 tires.
The main disadvantage of 29+ over 'normal' tires is that is not that nimble in a twisty singletrack. But overal in my conditions I'm faster then I used to be and faster or equal to my ride buddies on pure trail bikes w/ 2.4 tires.
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Love the look of your trance 29er. Looks great.
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Vee Rubber makes a 3.0 29er tire. How would such a large tire ride? Its gotta be slow. I rode a Foes Mutz for a day...and while the big tire fun factor (great on really rough descents!) was high...its still a slow accelerating and not so nimble bike. A 650+ tire is about the same size as a 29x2.3. My buddy rode his Trek Farley on our hard pack trails was struggling on the climbs.
The bike you rode is just a fat bike. Not 29+ bike. It is different. People usually assume that 3.0 inch tires equals a fat bike tires but it is not. I haven't ride a fat bike so far but for me 3.0 tires are as fast as 2.4 tires.
The main disadvantage of 29+ over 'normal' tires is that is not that nimble in a twisty singletrack. But overal in my conditions I'm faster then I used to be and faster or equal to my ride buddies on pure trail bikes w/ 2.4 tires.
Thanks for the reply.
When I see anything "+", I automatically think Fatbike. The fatbike is extremely fun to ride though. The giant tires let you roll over everything. It gave me the illusion that I was going faster than I actually was. Since I was braking and steering less. I was smashing over everything I had to steer around in my Pivot. I thought I PR'd a couple sections of my local trail compared to my Mach 5...but after uploading my data...I actually found that I was slower.
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I see one so far the Workswell WCB-M-078 27.5+/ 29 /29+ MTB Frame http://www.workswellbikes.com/web/view/161.html (http://www.workswellbikes.com/web/view/161.html). Looks like they may have borrowed the chainstay idea from the Trek Stache ;)
(http://www.workswellbikes.com/upload/images/20150617193007_97607.jpg)
Does any supplier have these frames yet? Flirting with the idea of a big 29er.
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Would like to see one built up. 67 degree Head Angle.,..,
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I have been waiting for a 29+ chiner frame for a while. As soon as someone can confirm that it will fit a 29+ 3" tire on a 50mm rim I will order this frame.
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This frame is Through Axle 12x148mm, I wonder if I can use my 12x142 wheels with a Novatec D772 hub with some sort of an adaptor?
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This frame is Through Axle 12x148mm, I wonder if I can use my 12x142 wheels with a Novatec D772 hub with some sort of an adaptor?
Nope, I don't think so. From what I've heard of the 12x148 "boost" it's completely incompatible with the 12x142. :|
See: "end cap swaps"
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/sram-announces-new-hub-standards-boost-148-and-110-2015.html
But - I'll bet someone will come up with a spacer kit that fills in the non-drive side and somehow shifts the brake caliper inboard. In fact - if you have a spacer on the non-drive side that fills the 6mm gap, and you shift the brake caliper (or shift the rotor, or maybe do 3mm inboard on the caliper and 3mm outboard on the rotor?) then you would have to re-dish the rear wheel 3mm to the non-drive side, which would actually give you the same benefit as running an off-center rim, and at least some of the benefit of a dedicated Boost 148 hub.
So, technically, no. But I'm quite sure there will be several folks who are probably actively designing something to do this right now. That's completely a guess on my part.
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Shnikes! I just saw this thread after browsing around for the past few hours. Has anyone ordered one of these frames yet and know the cost? I've emailed Workswell (really with that name? anyway...) and am waiting a response. Any input on this frame would be awesome
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Take another look at the web page, looks like they've updated it:
http://www.workswellbikes.com/web/view/161.html
Looks like there are now two spots for locating the rear dropouts, giving you two choices of chainstay length. Tuck it in close for faster handling, or put it back for more sedate handling with more tire clearance. Interesting. Hope someone gives it a whirl soon.
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I came across this today while looking at wheelsets
http://www.icanbikes.com/html/MTB/29ER_frame/317.html
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I came across this today while looking at wheelsets
http://www.icanbikes.com/html/MTB/29ER_frame/317.html
Yep, this frame is making the rounds at several of the Chinese vendor websites.
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I came across this today while looking at wheelsets
http://www.icanbikes.com/html/MTB/29ER_frame/317.html
I like!
(http://i.imgur.com/Ug0LCQY.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/djMfkV1.png)
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I came across this today while looking at wheelsets
http://www.icanbikes.com/html/MTB/29ER_frame/317.html
I like!
(http://i.imgur.com/Ug0LCQY.png)
It's so funny to me to see the elevated chainstays coming back. Brings back memories of Mountain Bike Action and their custom bike. Early 90s? Can't remember.
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Exciting. Would still love to know if anyone has tried one out. Workswell has one and there is one on ebay as well: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Full-Carbon-27-5-29-29ER-Thru-Axle-MTB-Frame-27-5ER-Plus-29ER-Plus-MTB-Frame-/151725229637?hash=item2353874645
Was down to 485 last week. Not bad. thinking about trying to make a build around this bike. I'm a little hung up on wheels and offset spokes. The Stache uses staggered spokes on the rims but the ones I've looked at for 29+ are usually only centered or offset.
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I would agree these latest two frames are exciting but the 148 rear spacing (and 110 front fork) tempers that quite a bit for me. I would have pulled the trigger but for that, now I wonder if I should wait for 142/100 hubs with conversion axles...
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Yeah, I did a quick search for Boost wheelsets, and there is basically nothing out there. Makes a frame build kind of tough.
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Hope is already making a 15x100 to 15x110 boost adapter. Well according to there FB page anyway. I really wanted to get this frame instead of the Workswell 062 frame I got but I had to keep telling myself I already have a trail bike.
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I see one so far the Workswell WCB-M-078 27.5+/ 29 /29+ MTB Frame http://www.workswellbikes.com/web/view/161.html (http://www.workswellbikes.com/web/view/161.html). Looks like they may have borrowed the chainstay idea from the Trek Stache ;)
(http://www.workswellbikes.com/upload/images/20150617193007_97607.jpg)
Does any supplier have these frames yet? Flirting with the idea of a big 29er.
I actually got to hold one in my hand at Interbike last week. The frame looks real nice in quality. Rep told me it was molded as one piece (don't know if its true).
(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z14/RS_VR6/Bike%20stuff/IMG_20150917_135912_zpswlsgdbbi.jpg) (http://s195.photobucket.com/user/RS_VR6/media/Bike%20stuff/IMG_20150917_135912_zpswlsgdbbi.jpg.html)
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Looks nice, I wouldn't mind seeing one built up by someone on this forum and learn about to all the details of the build.
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Don't they know they'd sell so many more of these frames if they would have a rear 142 and front 100 spacing option?
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Don't they know they'd sell so many more of these frames if they would have a rear 142 and front 100 spacing option?
Agreed.
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Don't they know they'd sell so many more of these frames if they would have a rear 142 and front 100 spacing option?
So true but the problem is I don't think they know. You would think they would just watch the forums and cater to needs but guess not
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It's just a copy of the tr3k stache, right? and not a new/original/researched concept. But I do agree on the spacing.
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Does anyone have an update on the Workswell frame? It looks like others have successfully bought and built another Workswell MTB frame. Someone should give the 29+ frame a go!
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follow this guy, Turtle: http://forums.mtbr.com/tooltime/custom-bike-build-experience-guide-help-solicitation-985951.html
btw, to anyone bemoaning lack of 100/142 spacing with plus tires - meditate upon this:
http://www.bikepacking.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/2014-surly-od-crank-05.jpg
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2825/9238817577_5b10ca8c2b_b.jpg
http://www.whileoutriding.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/MG_3663.jpg
(it's all Krampus pictures)
more clearance is better
and don't say the hubs are hard to find - every merchant selling these Chinese frames will gladly offer you Novatec 771/772 in the Boost width, at around $100
more expensive options are also available if you're all for bling (which is not quite understandable considering how it's being put on a noname frame)
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Bruto,
Thanks for pointing out that MTBR thread to me. Just what I was looking for!
I don't mind buying the hubs for boost. What bothers me is that the wheels wouldn't be interchangeable with all my other wheels, which are currently able to switch between my other bikes (QR, Thru-Axle, XD driver body, Shimano driver body). It looks like 3 mm spacers on each side of a 142mm rear hub, and at the disc mounting surface could take care of the problem. The only question would be how the chainline/tire clearance works out.
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Do you really need the interchangeability?
You won't be able to use 3.0 tires with your current rims, not safely anyway
Neither does it make sense to put regular MTB tires on 45-50mm wide rims
You can switch fork+front wheel, though, if either is out of order and you really want to keep riding that particular bike
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For me, the interchangeability is important. I would replace my current hardtail with a 29+ frame so that I could ride either 29+ or regular 29er tires. Obviously I could not use the 29+ tires on my 29er full-suspension bike, but I have a few different wheelsets (light weight XC wheelsets and 35mm internal carbon wheelsets) that are shared between bikes and that could go on a 29+ frame. For all I know, as I haven't ridden a 29+ setup yet, I may not even like 29+ very much, or only like it for certain conditions. I ride my hardtail for about 80% of my riding, and so I'd like to keep the setup quite versatile (from XC race to moderate trail riding).
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well, no frames for you except Krampus, Gnarvester or custom
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I get the experience of someone who moved from 26 to 29 to 27.5+
Moving to bigger and bigger wheels tells me that it works only if you invest in top quality components. I can't imagine 29+ be of any interest if it's not a high-end bike. The bigger, the heavier, the more you will want light AND strong parts. This comes with a price.
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ican 29+ complete. $3300.
http://www.icancycling.com/products/ican-29-carbon-mountain-bike?variant=6102438723
I recently saw a Trek Stache9 Holiday Sale for $3200... albeit aluminum frame but still comparing the list cost of both frames and forks the ican seems to me overpriced...
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you can build the bike for less yourself, the price they ask for the components is not the best around
frameset - 700 (don't know if axles are included)
hubs - 100
bar + seatpost = 58
you can probably get a bit of a discount for the package
carbon rims you can get elsewhere for 410 (tandell cycling, ebay, mb other places)
you can do a lot better (or at least blingier) than GX with the remaining 1950 bucks
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I officially have one of the Workswell frame / fork combos coming. I ordered Friday evening so we will see how long it takes. My 062 frame from them came in around 2 weeks if I remember correctly. I was REALLY hoping to get it in 12k weave but they told me that I would have to order 20 units. So UD matte it is.
As a preliminary experiment, I took the wheels of my SC 5010 (29mm internal Nextie rims), installed some WTB Trailblazer 2.8 tires and threw them on my Workswell HT. I have a half dozen rides on it so far and I have been very pleased with the ride. It is still fully rigid so it gives me a good sense of what the tires are doing. Honestly they ride a lot more like a normal tire than a fat bike tire. They definitely have more cushion and more traction than a normal 2.2ish tire. I was running somewhere between 15 and 20 psi and i did feel the rim bump some rocks and roots but nothing hard. A friend was riding a new Farley 7 and we swapped for a mile or so. The Farley was cool but I was some glad to get back on mine. It does weigh about 10 pounds less than the Farley and there was no snow on the ground so that is kind of obvious.
I decided on this frame for a couple of reasons
1) Fat bikes aren't for me. I ski all winter so a dedicated winter bike isn't needed. A Plus bike with 3" tires will suffice on hard pack snow for the couple rides I will do each winter.
2) Workswell / Sobato (or whatever name they end up with) has been great to deal with. Going by post #29, they brought some products to Interbike so there is some sort of commitment to the sport. And they have a Youtube channel with some testing videos. (nothing super cool but the only chinese vendor doing so that I know of)
3) MTBtools on eBay now has some boost hub adapters allowing me to utilize my skinny wheels if I end up selling my 062 frame. Also allowing me to using my current 27.5 wheels until I can justify some Plus wheels.
4) I haven't decided on 27+ or 29+ and this will give me the option of either with optimized CS length.
5) Price. I ended up getting frame and fork for $579 shipped. I may end up with a squishy fork but so far, I really like riding a rigid bike. (helps having a full squishy bike for other days)
I will update this as things progress. Or maybe just start a new thread. For starters, I will probably just pull stuff off the HT to build up the Plus bike. But who knows, we will see what else Santa (me) will bring.
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Dude, that's awesome! You'll be the first!
I don't live where it snows so I like the idea of the 3.0 tires over a true fat bike. I've demo'd a Foes Mutz. While the fun factor doing shuttle runs is super high...I don't think its a bike I'd be willing to own. Buddy of mine rode is Trek Farley on one of our local trails...and he was doing a lot more work than he should when pedaling on the flats and while climbing.
My next build may be a B+ bike to replace may aging Mach 5. ;D
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Dude, that's awesome! You'll be the first!
I'm not sure, is that supposed to be encouraging? :o ;D
Now just to decide if I go with 29+ or 27.5+?? Oh wait, my bike budget is blown for a few months so it probably doesn't matter at this point.
A friend of mine was on ride #2 of his new Stache 7 during yesterdays ride so I'm waiting on some feedback from him.
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So here is an update on the Workswell Plus frame. Supposedly there was a "mistake" in the listing and my order wasn't supposed to include the fork. They told me they would honor the price and include the fork. So here it is 12 days later and my package arrives! Pretty quick shipping. The box was a little rough with a rip in one seam. But otherwise it looked fine. So I proceeded to open the box and I was quite disappointed to find there was NO fork in the box. Otherwise the frame looks great and the headset was still in the box. So now the question is, did the fork come out of the ripped seam? Or was it never sent? I have sent a pleasant email asking them what the best solution is and I will go from there. It was ordered via Amazon so they can help too if things go south. I did take a video of me opening the box for the first time so hopefully that helps. So far I have been very pleased with Workswell so I hope this is just a minor hiccup.
And on anther note, 18.5" frame with BSA bottom bracket weights 1344 grams without the rear axle installed.
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We're you charged for something you did not receive? If not I would not worry about it as you have no formal complaint.
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When I purchased the frame it was listed as frame, fork, headset and rear axle. I have a couple emails with them because I wanted to clarify what I was getting and if 12k weave was an option. And in these emails, they responded with "yes, you will receive frame amd fork". The frame only was $80 cheaper on eBay so I would have went that way. But I thought why not get the fork if it's only $80 more. I'm hoping this is resolved smoothly. It could just be a shipping insurance claim. I'm not sure what they do on that end.
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3) MTBtools on eBay now has some boost hub adapters allowing me to utilize my skinny wheels if I end up selling my 062 frame. Also allowing me to using my current 27.5 wheels until I can justify some Plus wheels.
I'm glad to see someone realized how easy it is to make a spacer kit from 100/142 to 110/148 for riders with a lot of existing wheels!
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Update to the update. Workswell / Sobato was very quick to respond and they have been great to deal with. I should have a plus sized fork by the end of next week. I'm not sure when it will be rideable though. I currently have my 062 HT set up as a 27+ and I will keep it that way until I get some 29+ wheels for the new Chubby frame. I could steal parts off of that but I would then have to buy boost hub spacers as I do not have any boost wheels yet. And with the snow that we got, ski season is finally here.
So here is plan A:
Take the 062 and convert it to a rigid SS 29er. That should make it a sub 19 pound torture machine. Since I really do not feel like pulling out the brake hoses, I will leave the existing brakes on it and use the drivetrain for the Chubby bike. I will also be using some donated 710mm carbon bars and a Stylo GXP crank with a 32t ring. The wheels are DT Swiss with 18mm rims.
The Chubby bike will be built with the 10 speed Saint drivetrain with a XT 11-36 cassette. X0 carbon crank with a 32t direct mount ring. Easton Havoc 35 carbon bars cut to 760 and a 70mm stem. I just ordered the brakes for it from Merlincycles. M8000 XT brake set for $150 shipped. The only thing I do not have are the wheels. I plan on going with 29+ wheels as I want to roll over benefits on the east cost rocks and roots. I would love to do some Nextie / Hope wheels but I don't think the budget will allow for those anytime soon. So I will probably be on the look out for some slightly used wheels in the 40 to 50 mm size.
That's it for now. I will post up some pics when I get home. The wife dragged me to the mountain for some skiing this weekend. ;D
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Sounds like a good plan!