Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: sissypants on May 01, 2018, 02:26:59 PM
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I bought a 19” boost M9007 frame from Pro-Mance with ultralight T800/T1000 construction. Trailside weight of my build is just under 21 lbs. I am very impressed by the character and handling of the bike, not to mention the weight.
This mold was opened and licensed to three companies (marketed as Pro-Mance M9007/M7007, Hongfu HF-FM258, and TanTan FM078). Some additional adjustments were made to the mold: Hongfu modified the top-tube/seat-tube junction to resemble the Scott Spark while Pro-Mance introduced a boost option. Additionally, Pro-Mance is able to custom manufacture an ultralight T800/T1000 carbon fiber version of this frame (about 150g lighter). Of any XC 29er open mold, this frame looks to be the most aggressive, with the geometry being remarkably similar to the Scott Spark and the weight being the lowest of any chiner FS frame to date. That is, until the new Workswell frame hits the market later this summer.
CONSTRUCTION & FEATURES
The T800/T1000 ultralight M9007 boost frame from Pro-Mance is claimed to be 1850g for a 19”, though my frame (with derailleur hanger, cable routing ports, and shock mounting hardware) weighed 2020g. I did have it painted, but the weight is still heavier than anticipated.
The suspension linkage is carbon. Frame hardware is alloy. There is no squeaking or creaking through suspension compressions, an issue I have had with ICAN frames where plastic hardware was used. The shock hardware provided with the frame is a non-standard size that doesn’t fit Fox hardware, but I was able to find bolts to match Fox kits at the hardware store. The rear axle is heavy, I recommend an upgrade.
The internal routing is easy to set up, thanks to an accessible and thoughtful layout of the ports. The rear brake and derailleur cable are routed underneath the bottom bracket where they are susceptible to damage on impact. The rear brake caliper is mounted on the seat stay, while the cable routing port is on the inside of the chainstay and quite close to the axle, making for an awkward routing situation.
A single bottle mount on the downtube fits medium and small bottles. The frame is dropper compatible and should fit long travel posts. The bottom-bracket shell is press-fit.
I went with the boost M9007 frame to be certain I can ride 27.5x3.0 tires in addition to my 29x2.25 pair. There is probably not enough clearance for a knobbier or wider tire in the rear. The chainring clearance is also quite limited, I don’t think a 38T would fit, and I haven’t tested a 36T, but that would be tight as well. No chainstay protector mechanism is built into the frame, so you’ll want to find your own solution for that.
GEOMETRY
The M9007’s geometry falls into the aggressive XC category, with numbers very similar to the Scott Spark, though not identical.
BUILD KIT
Following proper weight weenie protocol, I gram-counted everything. However, I bored of this attitude and shifted towards putting together a smashing race-ready build. The trailside weight is just under 21 pounds. Sub-20 certainly was possible.
Suspension
The suspension is Fox Factory, with a boost Float 32 SC up front and a Float 6.5”x1.5” DPS shock in the rear. Neither have remote lockout.
Drivetrain
The drivetrain includes a RaceFace Next SL G4 crankset with OneUp boost 32T round/oval Switch chainring, SRAM XG-1195 cassette, and Shimano XTR 1x11 derailleur/shifter.
Brakes
Brakes are XTR Race with Ashima AI2 rotors. The power is not great, but enough for my Midwest XC riding.
Cockpit
The cockpit is the popular padded carbon saddle from Aliexpress (absolutely recommend), a Chiner 720mm flat carbon handlebar (tried 7 models, this is the only one stiff enough for me), Kalloy Uno 60mm -7o stem, silicone grips (orange are on the way), and a Chiner carbon seatpost.
Wheelset
A 1280g wheelset from Speedsafe helped keep things light and affordable. Boost DT Swiss 350 hubs were laced to monocoque 310g 24mm-wide 29er carbon rims with Pillar Xtra-Aero spokes and Pillar alloy nipples. Wheels were excellently tensioned and trued and shipped within 2 weeks. Tubeless setup required an air compressor due to hookless sidewalls. Order from Aliexpress. Speedsafe knows their stuff, I highly recommend them. I’ll write a separate review on the Speedsafe wheels after a thousand miles. At present they feel featherweight and I love the stiffness. I am mainly interested in the rim durability long-term.
Tires
Tires are Maxxis Ikon 29x2.25 3C/EXO Skinwall, and I’ll ride them till they break and then get something different—maybe an Ardent in the front and an Aspen in the rear. Traction is not as anticipated. Tubeless setup.
Other parts
Lots of little details also shave weight. Some Ti bolts, Syntace rear axle, carbon seatpost clamp, lightweight shift cable housing, stingy amounts of sealant, XTR pedals, carbon bottle cage, etc.
RIDE IMPRESSIONS
I have just 30 miles of Michigan singletrack on this bike so far, but I am incredibly pleased with the feel. A friend of mine also bought a Spark RC Pro bike, and I’ve got to say the bikes would feel identical except that my bike is 3 pounds lighter. We both come from hardtails, so we are absolutely shredding the gnar and loving every mile. At 6’2” the 19” frame size is working well for me, although I might go for a 21” if it becomes an option.
I think you can read any Spark review and apply the characteristics and handling of the ride to this frame. At 21 pounds, acceleration on my build is almost effortless--it climbs like a goat and descends like a beast. It shines most in the technical climbs, there just isn’t a bike built any better for these sections than a lightweight FS with a steep HTA.
AVAILABILITY & LOGISTICS
Hongfu, Tantan, and Pro-Mance are all stocking this frame in 15”, 17”, and 19” sizes. If you want boost, go with Pro-Mance, if you want a Spark-esque seat tube/top tube junction, go with Hongfu. I was personally very happy with the customer service that Al Zhu at Pro-Mance provided. He was always fast to reply, transparent about how things were going, and handled my special requests patiently. I recommend negotiating on the price. Hongfu has a special pre-order offer at the moment, but chances are Pro-Mance can match that price.
I waited 4 months to get my frame. I ordered something that was not in stock, needed custom-cut paint decals, and I ordered right before 3 weeks of Chinese New Year holidays. But I also got a good price. I recommend avoiding my mistakes to help speed things up for you. You can get frames that are in stock in as quickly as two weeks.
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More pics.
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beautiful. Wondering if there was a way to check if they used T700 vs T800/T1000
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Can you post a link of the saddle ?
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Great build and thanks for the thorough write up, much appreciated! Now to drool over the pictures...
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beautiful. Wondering if there was a way to check if they used T700 vs T800/T1000
Thanks, yeah I was kind of secretly wondering the same thing. If I ask I know what answer I'd get, but I'd need an electron microscope and spare samples to start looking at thread density.
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Can you post a link of the saddle ?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MTB-road-bike-Comfort-MTB-Wide-Bicycle-Seat-Carbon-Fiber-Bike-Saddle-Bicycle-Saddle-Bike-Seat/32766321631.html
It's a good one. Its incredibly lightweight and comfortable. 5 of my riding buddies bought it now that they saw mine.
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beautiful. Wondering if there was a way to check if they used T700 vs T800/T1000
Thanks, yeah I was kind of secretly wondering the same thing. If I ask I know what answer I'd get, but I'd need an electron microscope and spare samples to start looking at thread density.
Wheel, might need to send the bike to Applied Science guy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdjYVF4a6iU) however I feel that level of magnification might not be needed
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Can you post a link of the saddle ?
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/MTB-road-bike-Comfort-MTB-Wide-Bicycle-Seat-Carbon-Fiber-Bike-Saddle-Bicycle-Saddle-Bike-Seat/32766321631.html
It's a good one. Its incredibly lightweight and comfortable. 5 of my riding buddies bought it now that they saw mine.
Thank you, I just ordered one. I've been thinking about getting a saddle with a cutout for mtb in a while.
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I noticed you use similar stem length I use. I've been running on this carbonal (http://www.carbonalbike.com/carbon-mountain-bike/carbon-mountain-bike-handlebars/carbon-mountain-bicycle-integrated-handlebar-mhb08.html) bar for a while and have been really happy with it.
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I noticed you use similar stem length I use. I've been running on this carbonal (http://www.carbonalbike.com/carbon-mountain-bike/carbon-mountain-bike-handlebars/carbon-mountain-bicycle-integrated-handlebar-mhb08.html) bar for a while and have been really happy with it.
Hm, very interesting bar. I wasn't aware combos came that affordable at that weight. My combo is 134g for the handlebar and 80g for the stem (with bolts) so I'm still 20g under where that integrated would sit weight-wise. Price-wise my handlebar was $13 and the stem was $25. I'd do an integrated if I didn't mind spending a little more for sure.
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Hey nice build. Those wheels came out a pretty good weight. Frame, not so much, but that paint probably put some weight on, and you did go the largest size.
Is 60mm a long enough stem for you? I thought 6'2 on a frame with that reach would require a longer stem than 60mm. I don't think you can go past those Uno 7 stems. At least you can experiment with stem length pretty cheaply.
I am looking for a seatpost with a bit of setback. For my FM058. Yours looks pretty much what I am after. Could you post a link for it please.
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Hey nice build. Those wheels came out a pretty good weight. Frame, not so much, but that paint probably put some weight on, and you did go the largest size.
Is 60mm a long enough stem for you? I thought 6'2 on a frame with that reach would require a longer stem than 60mm. I don't think you can go past those Uno 7 stems. At least you can experiment with stem length pretty cheaply.
I am looking for a seatpost with a bit of setback. For my FM058. Yours looks pretty much what I am after. Could you post a link for it please.
This is the seatpost I got. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/hot-sale-full-carbon-fiber-bicycle-seatpost-MTB-road-bike-superlight-190g-seat-post-27-2/32543336441.html
The bike is feeling like a good fit at the moment. I may experiment with longer stem lengths, in addition to more negative rise, but right now I'm comfortable. I confess to an elbows-out aggressive posture.
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Very nicely written, bike looks amazing, and thank you for your impressions on a hot frame right now. This is what interests me more:
A friend of mine also bought a Spark RC Pro bike, and I’ve got to say the bikes would feel identical except that my bike is 3 pounds lighter.
Would you be able to do a more scientific comparison? Like a camera fixed on both bikes recording how each frame flexes under breaking and under power? That would be totally bonkers, as there are not many people with both frames at hand. The break mount placement differs and stiffness might too. There are videos of such comparisons like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDb4oTkuaMw
The power delivery was not effected, but one frame did wobble more under full power, which effected feel. The T800/T1000 should be very stiff, so it would be very interesting how both frames compare.
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Very nicely written, bike looks amazing, and thank you for your impressions on a hot frame right now. This is what interests me more:
A friend of mine also bought a Spark RC Pro bike, and I’ve got to say the bikes would feel identical except that my bike is 3 pounds lighter.
Would you be able to do a more scientific comparison? Like a camera fixed on both bikes recording how each frame flexes under breaking and under power? That would be totally bonkers, as there are not many people with both frames at hand. The break mount placement differs and stiffness might too. There are videos of such comparisons like this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDb4oTkuaMw
The power delivery was not effected, but one frame did wobble more under full power, which effected feel. The T800/T1000 should be very stiff, so it would be very interesting how both frames compare.
I don't have the resources for doing something like this. You're definitely digging the details at this point. All I can say is that ride quality is at least the same, and components are going to make more difference than the frame just based on total weight and tire selection. My friend is happy to ride with me, but isn't likely to sit down in studio for a frame stiffness comparison... :)
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Very nicely written, bike looks amazing, and thank you for your impressions on a hot frame right now. This is what interests me more:
A friend of mine also bought a Spark RC Pro bike, and I’ve got to say the bikes would feel identical except that my bike is 3 pounds lighter.
Would you be able to do a more scientific comparison? Like a camera fixed on both bikes recording how each frame flexes under breaking and under power? That would be totally bonkers, as there are not many people with both frames at hand. The break mount placement differs and stiffness might too. There are videos of such comparisons like this one:
The power delivery was not effected, but one frame did wobble more under full power, which effected feel. The T800/T1000 should be very stiff, so it would be very interesting how both frames compare.
I don't have the resources for doing something like this. You're definitely digging the details at this point. All I can say is that ride quality is at least the same, and components are going to make more difference than the frame just based on total weight and tire selection. My friend is happy to ride with me, but isn't likely to sit down in studio for a frame stiffness comparison... :)
I agree, going to this level of detail will require much more in depth research. Not only bb movement but chainstay, seatstay, handlebar. And that will also need to be tested in a machine not with a dude pedaling. I want to see the force being applied and the difference. The dude might just be pedaling different on the other frame. Pedals, crank length all that interfere. I don't think that's a rabbit hole that I want to go to as it will not come up with anything useful.
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Nice build. I think this is the frame (or a version of it) I'm going to build next...but the 142 version.
Guys on MTBR be hatin...but trying to not to look like they be hatin. ;D
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Cockpit
The cockpit is the popular padded carbon saddle from Aliexpress (absolutely recommend), a Chiner 720mm flat carbon handlebar (tried 7 models, this is the only one stiff enough for me), Kalloy Uno 60mm -7o stem, silicone grips (orange are on the way), and a Chiner carbon seatpost.
Hey mate, would you be able to provide a link to your handlebar, looks pretty decent. Love your build - looks awesome!
Cheers!
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Hey mate, would you be able to provide a link to your handlebar, looks pretty decent. Love your build - looks awesome!
It's this $15 720mm flat handlebar from Aliexpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Mountain-bike-3K-full-carbon-handlebar-Flat-carbon-bicycle-handlebar-MTB-bike-parts-31-8/2038499486.html
I've been through 7 different models now and this one is by far the stiffest--and coincidentally cheapest. Some of those bars feel like they'd crack on impact. Tideace, Rxl, Rxl SL, Ulicyc, BikeIn, I've tried them all.
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Hey mate, would you be able to provide a link to your handlebar, looks pretty decent. Love your build - looks awesome!
It's this $15 720mm flat handlebar from Aliexpress:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Mountain-bike-3K-full-carbon-handlebar-Flat-carbon-bicycle-handlebar-MTB-bike-parts-31-8/2038499486.html
I've been through 7 different models now and this one is by far the stiffest--and coincidentally cheapest. Some of those bars feel like they'd crack on impact. Tideace, Rxl, Rxl SL, Ulicyc, BikeIn, I've tried them all.
You are a champion, thank you!
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awesome build and great info.
out of interest, any reason you went with the M9007 vs the M7007, looks like the brake mounting is the only difference on these bikes.... or am I missing something?
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Thank you for the great build report, and other informations( I've just ordered a bar :) ).
Most of my hardtail friends are moving out, maybe it's time for a shift for me too.
I'm just intrigued by your comment about Workswell:
...That is, until the new Workswell frame hits the market later this summer...
Is it that revolutionary ?
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Thank you for the great build report, and other informations( I've just ordered a bar :) ).
Most of my hardtail friends are moving out, maybe it's time for a shift for me too.
I'm just intrigued by your comment about Workswell:
...That is, until the new Workswell frame hits the market later this summer...
Is it that revolutionary ?
http://www.workswellbikes.com/PRODDUCT/MTB/Trail/20170809/153.html
Revolutionary? No. But it sure looks trick!
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Pro Mance told me today it's a 40 day wait, minimum, for a 19" black matte M9007. Price was great, but I cannot wait that long. Oh well, worth asking.
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Pro Mance told me today it's a 40 day wait, minimum, for a 19" black matte M9007. Price was great, but I cannot wait that long. Oh well, worth asking.
Hm, they must have sold out. They had a few in stock just a few days back.
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What is Promance charging for these frames?
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LaneDetroitCity on the MTBR thread says: "I emailed the company. $658 for the light version, $595 for normal. 1785g ,1860g thats 17.5" frames." http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/21lb-fs-29er-build-pro-mance-m9007-1076993.html#post13655278.
I'll add that it's about $80 for shipping and $80 for painting for the first color.
And remember, everything is subject to negotiation--especially if it ain't in stock.
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And remember, everything is subject to negotiation--especially if it ain't in stock.
It never occurred to me to negotiate prices ::) ...
Is everyone doing it ? And how much can you get ?
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And remember, everything is subject to negotiation--especially if it ain't in stock.
It never occurred to me to negotiate prices ::) ...
Is everyone doing it ? And how much can you get ?
I usually get between $50 and $100 off. But I'd say that's way above average. Practice makes perfect, find ways you can make the agent excited about serving you as a customer, while realizing they need to make a profit too and their margins are sometimes smaller than you think.
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Thank you for sharing all the info, I've ordered exactly the same saddle you recommended. Only wondering if you have an special seatpost as the saddle rails seems non rounded.
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Thank you for sharing all the info, I've ordered exactly the same saddle you recommended. Only wondering if you have an special seatpost as the saddle rails seems non rounded.
Can you post some pictures of the saddle rails.
I'm also very interested with this saddle.
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Thank you for sharing all the info, I've ordered exactly the same saddle you recommended. Only wondering if you have an special seatpost as the saddle rails seems non rounded.
Can you post some pictures of the saddle rails.
I'm also very interested with this saddle.
Here it goes, they are just a bit oval, but worked fine on my ritchey seatpost.
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Enjoy, my saddle is still going strong! I'm running this seatpost, which has a clamp mechanism which might actually fit the oval rails better. Sorry, haven't taken a pic yet. Maybe will get around to that soon.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NEW-carbon-seapost-length-400mm-MTB-road-bicycle-seat-post-3k-carbon-seatpost-matte-190g/32749212918.html
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I have the GUB 1159 saddle and I'm a huge fan. Great lightweight saddle for under $50.
As for the rails, they are 7mm x 9mm oval rails. Most of the seat posts that use a top/bottom clamp should work fine as long as they have full rail support. The side clamp posts will not work or they will need a new clamp head. This style top/bottom clamp will NOT work as there isn't enough support for the carbon rails.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTB-Road-Mountain-Bike-Seatpost-Bicycle-Seat-post-tube-27-2mm-30-9mm-31-6mm/332253684663?hash=item4d5bdce3b7:m:ms0aTd1UpyH7cPJ-gBFsoLg
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@sissypants nice build, the price negotiation and custom layup advices are interesting, next time I order anything open mold I'd ask around about available options too. Sad to see the frame go for sale, maybe I should get a gravel frame too a build up another bike from spare parts.
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Hello @sissypants,
Let me introduce myself first. I am Jerry and new to the Chiner community after many of you DIY bikers inspired me to build my own mountain bike. Thanks for that!
My chiner is also built around a 29er carbon Pro-Mance M7007 Super Light frame, size XL because I am tall guy. It is ready to race and the first riding impressions are very positive. But it need still some finetuning.
However, one very annoying thing is that when I select the rear shock, a RS Monarch RL 168x38, in full lock mode (lever fully to the familiar turtle), there is a lot of bouncing in the back end of the bike. It is as if my rear wheel has become the shape of an egg. In 'open mode' of the rear shock the bouncing has almost completely disappeared. Very strange, but in 'lock mode' is therefore hardly decent to cycle.
Are you, familiar with this problem? If so, how did you solve this annoying and inefficient 'pedal bob' problem? Or is there probably something wrong with the shock, even though that brand is new as mine?
Thanks in advance for your help.
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Hello @sissypants,
Let me introduce myself first. I am Jerry and new to the Chiner community after many of you DIY bikers inspired me to build my own mountain bike. Thanks for that!
My chiner is also built around a 29er carbon Pro-Mance M7007 Super Light frame, size XL because I am tall guy. It is ready to race and the first riding impressions are very positive. But it need still some finetuning.
However, one very annoying thing is that when I select the rear shock, a RS Monarch RL 168x38, in full lock mode (lever fully to the familiar turtle), there is a lot of bouncing in the back end of the bike. It is as if my rear wheel has become the shape of an egg. In 'open mode' of the rear shock the bouncing has almost completely disappeared. Very strange, but in 'lock mode' is therefore hardly decent to cycle.
Are you, familiar with this problem? If so, how did you solve this annoying and inefficient 'pedal bob' problem? Or is there probably something wrong with the shock, even though that brand is new as mine?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Are you running a really small front chainring? E.g. smaller than 32T. It sounds like extreme anti squat to me, that it exaggerated when the compression damping is turned up.
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Hello,
Thanks for your comment.
Sorry, I'm not familiar yet with all the bike terminology, so I do not know what you mean by 'anti-squat'. I learn every day.
But I do know that I ride with a 30t chain ring at front. Is this a issue for the annoying 'bouncing'?
Greetings.
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Anti squat can happen when the angle of the chain is such that the suspension extends when there is tension on the chain. The main pivot on that bike is placed such that a chainring smaller than about 32t will produce such suspension extending under power. I suggest you get a bigger chainring. If you need a lower gear, get a bigger cog on your cassette. There are brands that do cassettes with 50t cogs on 11 speed, if you don't have 12 speed.
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Hmm... so a 32t chainring solves everything? This was my intention already after the 30t ring is worn out.
Or is a 34t chainring in front the best option? I ride Sram Eagle, but doubt if I have the legs for a chainring bigger than 32t ::)
Great help anyway!
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Even with a 32t, the main pivot is still above the chain on my bike. But I like how it rides, and just leave the shock set with the least low speed compression damping, and still don't notice any Bob. I actually think the frame I have (it is a Hong fu fm058, which I believe is pretty much the same) is designed for a 34t. If I had a 50t rear cog, I certainly would be using a 34t chainring, and would probably run a little extra compression, and maybe look into getting a remote lockout. If you want the suspension as active as possible under power, and you plan to habitually use a lockout, you should go for the biggest chainring possible. These frames are somewhat copies of the Scott spark - Dunno if the main pivot is in the exact same position as the spark, but Nino schurter runs a 38t on his spark (he states it is mainly for reducing friction losses, but maybe he is also doing it to gain some traction on the rougher climbs).
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Iam considering this frame but since I race alot of XC marathon races I would like to fit a 36t chainring up front. Can anyone confirm that a 36t chainring works with this frame?
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Even with a 32t, the main pivot is still above the chain on my bike. But I like how it rides, and just leave the shock set with the least low speed compression damping, and still don't notice any Bob. I actually think the frame I have (it is a Hong fu fm058, which I believe is pretty much the same) is designed for a 34t. If I had a 50t rear cog, I certainly would be using a 34t chainring, and would probably run a little extra compression, and maybe look into getting a remote lockout. If you want the suspension as active as possible under power, and you plan to habitually use a lockout, you should go for the biggest chainring possible. These frames are somewhat copies of the Scott spark - Dunno if the main pivot is in the exact same position as the spark, but Nino schurter runs a 38t on his spark (he states it is mainly for reducing friction losses, but maybe he is also doing it to gain some traction on the rougher climbs).
Thank for the extra (technical) feedback.
My shock is a 168x38 RS Monarch RL. I can not specifically set the compression damping as far as I know. I can only choose between two fixed compression damping settings: 'open' and 'full lock'. Plus tune the rebound via a red rotary knob. That's it.
What shock do you recommend if I want to upgrade?
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Iam considering this frame but since I race alot of XC marathon races I would like to fit a 36t chainring up front. Can anyone confirm that a 36t chainring works with this frame?
Depends on your chainline. My fm058, which I believe is the same other than the non boost dropouts, fits a 34t with a chainline at 50mm (m980 xtr crank, race Face NW ring). If you are running boost with a chainline over 50mm, I reckon you'd have no problem fitting a 36t.
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Thank for the extra (technical) feedback.
My shock is a 168x38 RS Monarch RL. I can not specifically set the compression damping as far as I know. I can only choose between two fixed compression damping settings: 'open' and 'full lock'. Plus tune the rebound via a red rotary knob. That's it.
What shock do you recommend if I want to upgrade?
Don't worry about upgrading the shock. Just get a bigger chainring. Your "reverse" Bob (extreme anti squat) will be reduced if you get a bigger chainring.
I assume you mean 165x38.
I am running a cheapie manitou mcleod and I'm very happy with it. But my 32t setup is more neutral than yours (though maybe slightly high on anti squat still).
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Thank for the extra (technical) feedback.
My shock is a 168x38 RS Monarch RL. I can not specifically set the compression damping as far as I know. I can only choose between two fixed compression damping settings: 'open' and 'full lock'. Plus tune the rebound via a red rotary knob. That's it.
What shock do you recommend if I want to upgrade?
Don't worry about upgrading the shock. Just get a bigger chainring. Your "reverse" Bob (extreme anti squat) will be reduced if you get a bigger chainring.
I assume you mean 165x38.
I am running a cheapie manitou mcleod and I'm very happy with it. But my 32t setup is more neutral than yours (though maybe slightly high on anti squat still).
Sorry for the late response.
There is a 32t chainring on the way to me. Am very curious if this solves the extreme anti squat or at least reduce it in full lock mode.
Still, I still find this problem a bit strange. It can almost not believe that Pro-Mance designed the M7007 frame specially for a chainring bigger than 32t. But maybe it did.
About the Manitou McLeod. That was also my number one choice, but I bumped to the 165x38 Monarch RL for a very attractive price ::). And it just works fine in open fashion.
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OK, maybe I missed something, but did you post pics of the bike built? I didn't see any in the thread, but would really like to.
Also, regarding carbon components on AliExpress:
Your handlebar - looks good by the seller's pic. Can you tell me how thick the walls are?
Seatpost - This reminds me of he ASIACOM stuff. NEVER BUY ASIACOM BRANDED COMPONENTS! That stuff is junk and very dangerous! I broke a seat post by them in 1 day. So, I got wise and when I check the handlebar, I found stress cracks.
What I have found that worked for me is Tideace brand bars and seat post which have held up for the past year. I've had a few nasty crashes, and thinking I may replace the bar, so that's why I am curious about yours. Rather replace and have piece of mind.
My Seat post: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tideace-carbon-bicycle-seatpost-MTB-road-mountain-bike-seat-post-seat-tube-glossy-matte-carbon-bicycle/32800640505.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dik4raZ (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Tideace-carbon-bicycle-seatpost-MTB-road-mountain-bike-seat-post-seat-tube-glossy-matte-carbon-bicycle/32800640505.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dik4raZ)
Saddle - Let me know how this turns out. I have bought a few from AliExpress. Anything I've bought with carbon rails seems to fail fairly quickly. I have usually been able to find the Selle SMP style saddle with titanium rails for a few dollars more. I just broke on of those (the rail) this week, but it's been on my bike for 5100 miles and I ride a hard tail where I should be on a long travel FS. So sometimes I've hit the saddle pretty hard.
Good thing, I had a spare saddle. But when I looked on Aliexpress, I couldn't find the SMP style anymore. Maybe there was a trademark crack down. I ordered something similar, but doesn't have the bent down nose... Kinda worried I might get a beak up the but if I'm not careful. This is the one I ordered. I've found that cradle shaped work good for me and I don't need any padding on the seat itself.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-No-Logo-3K-Gloss-Full-Carbon-Fiber-Bike-Riser-Saddle-Titanium-Alloy-Rail-Carbon/32858297872.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.6e704c4dOqPKjz (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-Arrival-No-Logo-3K-Gloss-Full-Carbon-Fiber-Bike-Riser-Saddle-Titanium-Alloy-Rail-Carbon/32858297872.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.6e704c4dOqPKjz)
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Sorry for the late response.
There is a 32t chainring on the way to me. Am very curious if this solves the extreme anti squat or at least reduce it in full lock mode.
Still, I still find this problem a bit strange. It can almost not believe that Pro-Mance designed the M7007 frame specially for a chainring bigger than 32t. But maybe it did.
About the Manitou McLeod. That was also my number one choice, but I bumped to the 165x38 Monarch RL for a very attractive price ::). And it just works fine in open fashion.
I am no expert on kinematics, but I have picked up that gear choice will have an impact on anti squat on any suspension system, some systems more than others. There will always be compromises, some gear combos that are more optimal for a given pivot placement. This frame is modelled off a Scott spark RC, a bike made for XC racing. It came out around the same time as SRAM eagle did, with the 50t cog. A 34t chainring with a 50t cog is a very low gear, probably lower than what a competitive racer would use in a typical xc event. It does not surprise me that they've put such a high main pivot on that bike, to suit a bigger chainring.
It doesn't mean that the bike won't work with a smaller chainring, it just won't be optimal. I use a 32t myself, and i notice no Bob (either pedal induced reverse bob, or stomp induced bob). And I run my rear shock with the compression full open.
The setup you have is no big deal, the sensation you are getting when you lockout the suspension should not bother you much. If it does bother you, you have a choice: either stop locking out the rear shock, or get a bigger chainring. It sounds like you are going the latter route. Let us know how it goes - it might still have it when locked out, but I reckon it'll be reduced.
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Sorry for the late response.
There is a 32t chainring on the way to me. Am very curious if this solves the extreme anti squat or at least reduce it in full lock mode.
Still, I still find this problem a bit strange. It can almost not believe that Pro-Mance designed the M7007 frame specially for a chainring bigger than 32t. But maybe it did.
About the Manitou McLeod. That was also my number one choice, but I bumped to the 165x38 Monarch RL for a very attractive price ::). And it just works fine in open fashion.
I am no expert on kinematics, but I have picked up that gear choice will have an impact on anti squat on any suspension system, some systems more than others. There will always be compromises, some gear combos that are more optimal for a given pivot placement. This frame is modelled off a Scott spark RC, a bike made for XC racing. It came out around the same time as SRAM eagle did, with the 50t cog. A 34t chainring with a 50t cog is a very low gear, probably lower than what a competitive racer would use in a typical xc event. It does not surprise me that they've put such a high main pivot on that bike, to suit a bigger chainring.
It doesn't mean that the bike won't work with a smaller chainring, it just won't be optimal. I use a 32t myself, and i notice no Bob (either pedal induced reverse bob, or stomp induced bob). And I run my rear shock with the compression full open.
The setup you have is no big deal, the sensation you are getting when you lockout the suspension should not bother you much. If it does bother you, you have a choice: either stop locking out the rear shock, or get a bigger chainring. It sounds like you are going the latter route. Let us know how it goes - it might still have it when locked out, but I reckon it'll be reduced.
Thanks for the extra clarification. It helps me to gain more insight into the possible cause of the extreme pedal bob in lock mode.
At the same time it is as you said: in itself it is not a big problem. I will use the lock function only sporadically, on the fire roads to and from the tracks. Usually the shock is in the full open setting.
It was just a nice extra that my Pro-Mance M7007 would behave as a hardtail in lock mode (with a 30t chainring).
Anyway, a 32t chainring is underway and as soon as I have the chance to assemble and test it, I'll let you know what effect that has.
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***update***
Well, as advised I have mounted a larger chainring (32t) and the extreme pedal bob / aniti-squat is indeed reduced. However, only from the top half of the cassette. On the smallest toothing in the rear, there is still a noticeable amount of anti-squat ::)
Anyway, because 90% of the time I have the rear shock in full open mode, I can live with the current level of anti-squat. Nonetheless, I continue to find it a strange design choice of the Pro-Mance M7007 frame (and thus Scott, because the M7007 is a resemblance to their Spark).
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It seems I saw on another site that Sissypants sold his bike featured on this posting.
I wonder if he had problems with the pedal bob that you are Jerry? I was going to
buy the 9007-II boast and they show this will take a 36t (in red) on their site,
major food for thought here. Thank you for your posting by the way.
Tom H
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It seems I saw on another site that Sissypants sold his bike featured on this posting.
I wonder if he had problems with the pedal bob that you are Jerry? I was going to
buy the 9007-II boast and they show this will take a 36t (in red) on their site,
major food for thought here. Thank you for your posting by the way.
Tom H
I have (already) spoken with Sissypants and he used a 32t oval chainring - in combination with a DT Swiss shock - and never experience such extreme pedal bob. So maybe an oval ring is the solution...
Megamo, the Spanish brand that sells this frame under the model Track, also uses round chainrings. Also in size 32t I have read somewhere, I believe. Even Pro-Mance itself does not know this issue (if so, it will probably never admit it at all).
@Tom H
As far as your remark about the M7007-II and its (max?) 36t chainring concerned. I asked Pro-Mance about it at the time, but I did not really get a clear answer to the exact reason or difference in comparison with the M7007-I. On my M7007-I a 34t ring probably also fits well. A 36t I'm not sure, but I do not have such strong legs anyway :-)