Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => Metal Frames => Topic started by: bxcc on June 11, 2020, 08:04:15 AM
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I've decided to retire (give to my daughter) my Workswell 062 that's built up as a singlespeed and jump into the world of titanium. I was really hoping to go with a custom Seven build as they are somewhat (4 hour drive) local to me. Unfortunately I cannot justify spending over $3,000 on a hardtail frame at this time. I started looking into some of the custom Chinese manufacturers and I settled on Waltly as they seem to have a good reputation.
I first emailed Waltly on June 3, 2020. While eating my cheerios and checking my email the following morning, I noticed one from Amy from Waltly Titanium. The email was basic and to the point with few details on how the process works. I emailed her back with more information on what I was looking for and our discussion was started. Over 7 days and 34 emails, Amy has been great to deal with. I'm not one to sleep through the night so that has definitely sped up the process as there is a 12 hour difference in time. If I woke up at 1am, I would check my email and try to respond if I could. If not, every email would take 24 hours to process. She will give some feedback on dumb ideas or things that will not work, but overall, it's up to me to get it right. I have no complaints on Amy's communication as it's been as good as can be expected and isn't far off from what Peter would provide.
Overall, I've been happy with my WW 062 frame but I wanted to make some subtle changes. The headtube angle should be slacker, the chainstays should be shorter, the seat tube should be able to handle internal dropper routing, the top tube slightly longer, be able to run a Bushnell EBB, and base all of it off of the new 120mm RS Sid with 35mm stanchions. That seems like a long list but the changes to those measurements is minimal.
This is what I want the frame to look like but with some added reinforcement tubes between the seat tube and each top tube. Similar frame lines to the Kona Honzo. I sent Amy a link to this frame of theirs and asked her to copy the look but add my changes.
https://waltly.en.alibaba.com/product/62314783972-218697100/Direct_Factory_Price_High_Quality_Bicycle_Frame_650b_Titanium_bike_Frame_Small_size.html?spm=a2700.icbuShop.41413.16.1fff57dc01Q5Yh
I'm not sure how the geometry numbers will actually ride but I tried to find a happy medium between an XC race bike and a new school enduro sled.
Geometry:
Effective top tube measurement: 635mm
Chainstay length: 425mm
Bottom bracket drop: 60mm
effective seat tube angle: 73.5 degrees
Seat tube length: 450mm
seat post size: 31.6mm
Head tube angle: 68 degrees
Head tube length: 110mm
Head tube bore: 44mm top, 56mm bottom
fork offset: 44mm
fork length: 530mm
Notes:
clearance for 29 x 2.4 in tires
front chainring: 34 tooth
eccentric bottom bracket shell (68mm wide with 54mm bore for Bushnell EBB)
external zip tie cable guides on bottom of top tubes for rear derailleur and rear brake
external zip tie cable guides on right side of down tube for dropper post
internal routing in seat tube for dropper seat post
top tubes to seat tube reinforcement tube with small curve, one per top tube
So with that, here is the drawing she sent me. I'm a little curious on why the seat tube bore is 31.75mm as that seems big for a 31.6 post so I'll inquire about that one. If anything else looks off, PLEASE let me know soon so I can make any required changes.
(https://i.imgur.com/mNsGJHY.jpg)
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This is a very exciting build ! I look forward to the details.
The straight tubing from the headset to the rear axle+the seat-tube reinforcement, makes it look like the 041, that I just broke two weeks ago in a crash(I'm fine ;) ).
You probably did that already, but I would double check the clearance for the ring.
Just to be sure, there is a comfortable room for 34T (oval ? is a bit bigger )
You'll go single speed too on that one I guess.
If you change your mind later on, can you put another BB in there?
Did you ask them to make it especially light ?
Do you have an expected weight for the frame ?
I've ordered my Carbonda FM936 and took the Sid 120mm too. So... good choice ;)
I will certainly try the Ti route in the future, but for an adventure, bag ready bike.
So I'm definitely interested on news of your build.
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Thanks, I'm pretty excited for it as well. I wanted it to look as different as a mountain bike can without being wacky.
I'm sorry you broke your bike but glad that you made it out unscathed. ;D
I asked them to provide enough clearance for a 34t ring as that should clear a 32t oval. That's what is stated on the blueprint as well. I can always run a 30t and drop the rear cog down in size to match the ratio.
Yes, the plan is to keep it as a single speed. My EBB that I have has standard BSA threads so I can definitely run any BB if I choose to run gears. The one issue with the EBB is that I can never get the stated geometry. The EBB is 5mm off of center so essentially the CS and the BB drop both have a 10mm range that I can use. But getting to the middle of both just can't happen. If I want 425mm chainstays, I can only have a 55mm or a 65mm BB drop. Or a 60mm drop can only have CS lengths of 420mm or 430mm. Ideally, if I ever run gears, a 60mm drop with 420mm stays would be great.
I didn't ask them for any specific weight. Getting into double butted tubes ups the price quite a bit. My 062 is just under 21 pounds as it sits. Once this is complete the way I want it with new fork and new wheels, I'll be happy with anything under 23 pounds. I'll drop almost a pound by ditching the Pike and getting the new Sid but I'll be adding almost a pound with the Revive dropper. The EBB with GXP BB vs my current Philcentric could add up to 200g as well. I could always stick with a BSA shell and keep running the Philcentric but there isn't nearly as much adjustment range with that setup.
The FM936 looks like a great frame. You should be happy with that, I know I would be.
I hope it comes out as good as I hope as there's no returns on this one. It isn't the cost of a Seven but it isn't $375 like my WW-062 was. :o
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All the equipment of my late 041 is now on the 062, its retirement as a home trainer will wait.
The BB of your new frame seems well under control 8)
I ordered a BSA finally for the FM936. Even if they need 45-60 days more for it.
I'm a PF guy... but only BB92 was available, which is too thin for DUB 29mm spindle.
And I have the groupset already.
Waiting for your next episode !
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I still can't get on the home trainer routine. The wife has a nice cyclops one that's a virtual trainer as well. It's cool but I can't seem to get motivated for it. I'd wait the extra month for BSA if it was an option on a squishy bike as well. Not much to go wrong there.
I'm hoping that the BB situation is under control. EBB's get mixed reviews. I thought about going with a PF30 shell as BEER components and Wheels Manufacturing both make EBB's for it. Two issues with that though. 1) there isn't much tolerance for error when they bore out the BB shell. 2) it would require purchasing a different EBB at roughly $150. Maybe I should have just stuck with a BSA shell and the Philcentric that's in the 062. Soooo, ya, I tend to over analyze things a bit. The Philcentric doesn't have nearly the amount of adjustment range though.
I had a couple more emails with Amy last night and we agreed on a final drawing. Not much has changed but we did add a 6mm thick plate where the chainstays attach to the BB shell. The short stays and bigger shell doesn't allow for much room for a reinforcement tube. This plate should do the trick.
Now I wait. It's going to be about a month before it's ready to ship so I won't have much to update for awhile. I guess it's now time to shop for some wheels.
(https://i.imgur.com/Z97fVT4.jpg)
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This is awesome. I love the look of the frame. Thanks for the information. I have a couple questions for you. Are you happy with the "31.75x120L" seat tube bore? Is that too wide and is it too short for a dropper post?
I am also curious about the rear wheel spacing. Is it 142 or 148mm for boost? I can't see exactly what is happening there in the drawing.
What headset did you pick on this bike and what were the options you were thinking about using?
Also, what is the reach for this bike?
Can you elaborate on the chainstay length vs bb drop further? I am not aware of how this works.
Any other suggestions on what to look out for in the process and helpful hints?
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Thanks. I wasn't sure how the straight line between rear axle and headtube was going to look in real life but if the Kona Honzo can pull it off, I'm sure this will be good as well. It's going to end up looking a lot like the Honzo Ti they had a couple years back.
1. I'm not sure if I'll be happy with the seat tube bore or not. I asked a few times about it and expressed my concerns. She stated that they are all that way and inserting the dropper by 220mm will not be an issue. She also stated that she will verify before the frame is shipped out. I hope to run a 160mm Revive dropper. I would be ok with 125mm of drop but the 160mm post will put it well below the top tube / seat tube junction reducing the likelihood of any cracking in that area.
2. 148mm boost. The 141mm measurement is the face of the dropouts, not the cutout portion for the hubs.
3. ZS44 upper and ZS56 lower. They can do the drop in standard as well but I prefer actual cups. It leaves the most options open for headset choice.
4. the reach for the frame (without accounting for stem spacers and the stem) should be right around 452mm.
5. The BB shell of the frame has an internal bore of 54mm. The EBB is then put into the frame shell. The EBB has standard BSA threads that are offset from center. You rotate the EBB until you get the right chain tension. Once that is complete, the EBB has some expansion wedges in it that keep it from spinning. So the actual centerline of the frame BB shell has a 60mm drop and 425mm CS distance. But the EBB will spin it around that axis with a 5mm radius. I will always be 5mm away from the 60mm/425mm position but I can choose the clock angle of it. I hope that helps. Here's a link with some pictures that might help even more.
https://problemsolversbike.com/article/bushnell-eccentric-bottom-bracket-the-time-tested-tensioner
6. Other tips? Not many at this point. I'll have a better idea once it's in my stand. I would say that if you don't plan on running it as a singlespeed, keep it simple and just get a BSA shell. Also, spend too many hours looking at frame designs and take screenshots of them. They can do anything if you just ask and open up the wallet. ;D
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I'm expecting my 2nd Waltly Ti bike frame to arrive this week. And Amy was also the staff that worked with me on this one. It is a 29er as well. I've fiddled with chain tensioner before on a single speed setup and isn't to keen with it but not wanting to spend for an Eccentric BB I went with a sliding horizontal dropout on my first one. Love it and still went with it on this one.
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Did you ask them to make it especially light ?
You can specify the tube diameter size and tube thickness. Their default tube thickness is 0.9mm. They will comply but that is at your own risk. I did specify tube diameter on my first one but I let them have their way on the second one. I didn't bother with tube thickness on both though.
The first frame was 1.935kg including the brake/TA brackets. So I'm expecting the 29er to be a tad over 2kg.
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You can specify the tube diameter size and tube thickness. Their default tube thickness is 0.9mm. They will comply but that is at your own risk. I did specify tube diameter on my first one but I let them have their way on the second one. I didn't bother with tube thickness on both though.
The first frame was 1.935kg including the brake/TA brackets. So I'm expecting the 29er to be a tad over 2kg.
Your two Waltly frames make me feel a little better about my decision to go with them, they look great. I didn't realize they would laser etch logo's for free, that's a cool feature. My plan is to make some stencils with the sticker cutter and bead blast the frame myself. I might even try the do-it-yourself anodizing.
I'm about 185 to 190 pounds (85kg) ready to ride. Amy recommended a 44.5mm down tube with a 1.1 wall thickness versus the 42mm x 0.9mm tube. She stated that it's partly to do with the twin down tube design and that it may get ridden aggressively with a 140mm fork. It should make for a stiffer pedaling frame as well. I've been told, and this could be wrong, that down tubes and chainstays make for a stiff pedaling frame and helps with the twisting forces. While smaller flatter toptubes and seat stays add to the softer ride while seated. To be honest, I just really liked the looks of the bike. The twin top tube design looks like the old retro paper boy style frames but the lines of the bike are modern and more aggressive. With that being said, I'm expecting the frame to be well above 2kg. The WW-062 frame it's replacing was around 1,250g so the bike will be at least 2 pounds heavier.
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For anyone who's wondering on a timeframe, it should ship within 35 days of June 12th when the plan was finalized.
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@bxcc, the free laser etched logo was way before. They now charge for it, iirc, rate depends on size & number of logos/name. So for my second frame, I didn't go for any anymore. The rate of the frame had also gone up since my first one.
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@bxcc, your twin top tube design reminded me of actually wanting Waltly (thru Carbon Speed) to make a Ti version of the Commencal Acid (see photo). But Waltly's reply was they couldn't do it at that time, they would have to build a new mold (or something) and it would be very expensive. I wonder if it's doable now.
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@tripleDot, that’s a very cool looking frame. I’m not sure if they could pull that off or not. There’s a lot of angles to account for with those bends. It would be cool to see a version with each seat stay being a continuous tube to the head tube while still wrapping around the seat post like that. Mine is one continuous tube but it stays on it’s own side.
The prices have definitely gone up. The original frame was $830. Then there was a $20 up charge for the EBB shell and another $30 up charge for the chain stay to EBB shell yoke. Making the total come to $880 before shipping and PayPal fees. It’s still a decent price for a full custom frame. I just hope the quality is high enough that I don’t have any issues and everything fits as it should.
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@bxcc, my first one was under $750 (including shipping but sans local customs & duties), discounted as I had done a few projects with Peter (Carbon Speed) as my major parts supplier.
For this one, my base price was $800 (discounted) including a pair brake/TA brackets plus an extra pair of the brake/TA brackets for SS ($35) and PayPal charges ($42). Got the discount for being a returning customer. Another unexpected increased in cost for me was the shipping. I always go with EMS which was around $60 (within Asia) but with the COVID lockdown, I didn't have a choice but to go with $200 DHL.
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@bxcc, your twin top tube design reminded me of actually wanting Waltly (thru Carbon Speed) to make a Ti version of the Commencal Acid (see photo). But Waltly's reply was they couldn't do it at that time, they would have to build a new mold (or something) and it would be very expensive. I wonder if it's doable now.
I don't see in the picture an opening for the belt.
Do you think it is a breakable belt, I've seen some picture once, but don't know if it as reliable as a regular belt.
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I don't see in the picture an opening for the belt.
Do you think it is a breakable belt, I've seen some picture once, but don't know if it as reliable as a regular belt.
The Commencal Acid is not belt driven, the photo just wasn't of the best quality. I've personally seen the bike locally, iirc, it was a $300-350 fixed gear bike. Kind'a heavy for a fixed gear but I just loved the design.
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Build update: No news on the frame at this point. I did order the rims for it though from Elite Carbon Wheels. (I started a separate thread on those in the vendor section since it appears that no one here has used them yet.) I hope that their published ERD is relatively accurate as I ordered spokes as well. The spokes come from The Gear Rush Store on eBay and were $50.61 shipped for 64 DT Swiss Aerolite spokes. At that price, I'll take the risk.
Wheel details:
Rim: 29er asymmetric XC rim
33mm outer
27mm inner
29mm depth
350g advertised weight
28 hole
12k twill weave, matte finish
Hub: DT Swiss 350 classic
Boost
28h
Centerlock rotor
Spokes: DT Swiss Aerolite
288mm (I should be good with all one length)
3 cross
Nipples: Sapim Double Square alloy
I'm hoping the full wheelset comes in around 1425g. Lighter would be better but that means the rims will have to be lighter which makes me a bit nervous.
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The rims are very similar to the ones I plan to use on the FM936.
The AM927 of lightbicycle.
A bit less depth of 24mm.
And they offer a 10% lighter version than normal at ~360g
I do not build wheels anymore.
Getting the rim, saving a bit of shipping cost by ordering home the hubs, spokes and nipples cost the same. And I have still to build the wheels.
What I keep doing, is to check the tension is perfectly even on all spokes, by ear.
In general it is fine, but sometimes it needs a bit of tuning.
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Will you be ordering the complete wheels from Light Bicycle?
I’ve always had my LBS build the wheels for me. They give me great deals on parts so I try to give them things like wheel building and suspension servicing as it’s labor and pure income. With the deal I found on the spokes, the extra cost will only be the labor fees.
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Will you be ordering the complete wheels from Light Bicycle?
I’ve always had my LBS build the wheels for me. They give me great deals on parts so I try to give them things like wheel building and suspension servicing as it’s labor and pure income. With the deal I found on the spokes, the extra cost will only be the labor fees.
Yes, I order full wheels now from LightBicycle, instead of building them, it saves me time.
And as I'm a kind of LBS, it has value to me ;)
Suspension servicing is still a missing skill for me, but I'll definitely address this soon.
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Waking up to an email stating that your frame is finished is ALWAYS a good way to start the day. I paid the second half of the invoice and it should be shipped out within a day or two. Let's see how the shipping goes with COVID slowing everything down. I've gotten really spoiled with Amazon 2 day shipping so this is going to be tough. ;D
(http://i.imgur.com/ONMMwAom.jpg) (https://imgur.com/ONMMwAo)
(http://i.imgur.com/d1127r9m.jpg) (https://imgur.com/d1127r9)
(http://i.imgur.com/W4B8ZFlm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/W4B8ZFl)
(http://i.imgur.com/lqD4Vkum.jpg) (https://imgur.com/lqD4Vku)
(http://i.imgur.com/HwGZtHCm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/HwGZtHC)
(http://i.imgur.com/la4Ln4tm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/la4Ln4t)
(http://i.imgur.com/wyVlbhhm.jpg) (https://imgur.com/wyVlbhh)
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Man! Those twin top tubes that formed the seatstays looks pretty awesome. :D
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Thanks! I'm sure it added some weight but I wanted it to be a little different than most.
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Just noticed, did you asked for an IS rear brake mount?
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Just noticed, did you asked for an IS rear brake mount?
I didn't ask, they just had that on the drawing. But it is what I wanted. I prefer the IS type in the rear as it eliminates the possibility of destroying the frame by cross-threading the mounting screws for the brake caliper. With the IS type, I can account for small variances in alignment if the frame or brake mount is perfect. I've never dealt with Waltly before so I was playing it safe.
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Happy for you... There's something magical with this metal :)
This is definitely what I'll use for my (after ;))next bike, probably a belt/gearbox adventure gravel machine.
Do you know what are the small holes in the chainstays/seatstays ?
Did they advise for the reinforcement between the top tubes and the seatube ? Or it's you ?
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Do you know what are the small holes in the chainstays/seatstays ?
Did they advise for the reinforcement between the top tubes and the seatube ? Or it's you ?
I believe they are vent holes. They could be closed up after all the welding is complete but I've seen a lot of metal frames that leave them open. When welding tubes that will have a full weld on both ends, the heat buildup from the weld has no place to go. So when you weld the last piece, the pressure builds up inside the tube and can blow out the last point of weld.
As for the top tube / seat tube reinforcement, I asked for it and the designer confirmed that they should be there. There's about 160mm of seat tube above the top tube. This will help disperse the load. Having the standard 4 inches (100mm) of seatpost insertion probably wouldn't end well with this frame even with the reinforcements. If all of my calculations are correct, the BikeYoke Divine SL that I plan to run should be a few millimeters below the top tubes.
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Looks amazing! I have a frame coming from Waltly right after you I hope. I put the final drawing in on 7/6/2020 so we will see when it is finished.
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Looks amazing! I have a frame coming from Waltly right after you I hope. I put the final drawing in on 7/6/2020 so we will see when it is finished.
Thanks. I finalized my drawing on June 12th so it was a bit over the 35 day estimate.
I was charged for DHL shipping which I was told would take 4 to 5 days. I hope that's correct as I'm a bit excited to get it here. The rims still haven't shown up so no riding it for a bit.
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I was charged for DHL shipping which I was told would take 4 to 5 days. I hope that's correct as I'm a bit excited to get it here. The rims still haven't shown up so no riding it for a bit.
The DHL shipping from China to my country was pretty close to the 4-5 days, 6 days iirc. But I live in Asia. It was the local DHL that bore the COVID-19 delay... by about a month or so. If I didn't call them after week 3, it would have taken longer.
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I am curious what pitch threads will be on my ti bike? I have 12x148mm but I am not sure if it will be 1.5mm or 1.0mm pitch threads. I can't tell from my drawing. What do you guys have for rear thru axles on your waltly frames bxcc and tripleDot?
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Amy told me that the rear axle is included with the frame. From the pictures I’ve seen, I believe it’s the e-thru axle type that has its own nut instead of the frame being threaded.
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I am curious what pitch threads will be on my ti bike? I have 12x148mm but I am not sure if it will be 1.5mm or 1.0mm pitch threads. I can't tell from my drawing. What do you guys have for rear thru axles on your waltly frames bxcc and tripleDot?
The frame came with their tru-axle, I believe it's a 1.5 pitch. But admittedly, I don't really know how to read the vernier calipher... so I just included it in the pic.
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Thanks for the photo and replies. This is helpful. Sumi says a 12x148 x 180mm long with 1.75mm thread pitch will be included with a nut like you show. I was curious if Waltly cut threads into one side of the drop out so I could thread a thru axle in like on my mountain bike, but it sounds like they use the nut on the side instead. I think this should be fine but it would be really nice to have a standard thru axle size (if such a thing exists). It seems like there are 1.0mm, 1.5mm and 1.75mm threads on these rear thru axles from my research.
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Thanks for the photo and replies. This is helpful. Sumi says a 12x148 x 180mm long with 1.75mm thread pitch will be included with a nut like you show. I was curious if Waltly cut threads into one side of the drop out so I could thread a thru axle in like on my mountain bike, but it sounds like they use the nut on the side instead. I think this should be fine but it would be really nice to have a standard thru axle size (if such a thing exists). It seems like there are 1.0mm, 1.5mm and 1.75mm threads on these rear thru axles from my research.
Shimano and DT Swiss both make E-Thru axles that come with the nuts. I actually prefer the frame NOT be threaded as a cross-thread will ruin your frame if something goes wrong.
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Shimano and DT Swiss both make E-Thru axles that come with the nuts. I actually prefer the frame NOT be threaded as a cross-thread will ruin your frame if something goes wrong.
Regarding threaded frames for TA. I was rear ended by a motorcycle once and the TA thread on the Chinese cf frame was disintegrated by the impact. If the frame didn't came with a nut for the TA, I probably won't be able to use that frame anymore.
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Shimano and DT Swiss both make E-Thru axles that come with the nuts. I actually prefer the frame NOT be threaded as a cross-thread will ruin your frame if something goes wrong.
Regarding threaded frames for TA. I was rear ended by a motorcycle once and the TA thread on the Chinese cf frame was disintegrated by the impact. If the frame didn't came with a nut for the TA, I probably won't be able to use that frame anymore.
In those catastrophic times. Couldn't you drill a 12-12.5mm hole in the thread to remove it?
And then use an axle with a nut.
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In those catastrophic times. Couldn't you drill a 12-12.5mm hole in the thread to remove it?
And then use an axle with a nut.
It can probably be done.
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The frame finally arrived today! Roughly 8 weeks from approving the final drawing. Everything looks great so far. The Bushnell EBB fits nice and snug with very minimal tightening required. The seat tube is a little bigger than I'd like as the post slides in on it's own with the collar completely loose but it should work. It weighs in at 2187 grams which should translate to about a 2 pound weight gain over my WW-062 single speed. I'm adding a dropper post but going with a SID 35 instead of the Pike. Overall, I expect the complete bike to be right around 23 to 24 pounds. I have some anodizing to do then I'll post up some pictures.
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I wrapped up some of the anodizing. The head tube I had to do twice and the finish is a little more matte than I was hoping for. But overall, I'm happy with the outcome.
(https://i.imgur.com/1icIxOqm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9omrF2Um.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FvYHxynm.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/f00wSH5m.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/s5AyLpom.jpg)
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Really nice bxcc!
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So the rims were lost in the mail, the brakes are on backorder, and the fork is unavailable at this time. I ended up ordering some cheap take-off wheels to run for now and keep as back ups and that solved the rim issue. I also dug into my parts bin and my brothers to find the rest of the needed items. It's all put together and riding great. It will be nice when it looses a few pounds with the permanent parts but it works for now.
(https://i.imgur.com/hTZFAuWl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/dDqAeTCl.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/AWRJS3Ul.jpg)
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Let me guess... the brakes will be blue? ;)
Wonderful bike !
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Let me guess... the brakes will be blue? ;)
Wonderful bike !
Haha, nope. But the fork might be.... Brakes will be M9120's once they are back in stock. LBS isn't sure how long it will take and winter's approaching rapidly so it's probably going to be this way until spring. Hoping to get the blue SID Ultimate but I'll take black if that's all the LBS can get. The rims from Elite were lost in transit and I just received the refund from AliExpress. I ordered the same rims from Hulk Bike on eBay this time. Hopefully this set arrives soon. DT 350 hubs and DT Aerolite spokes are already waiting at the shop.
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3 years and 500 miles later, the frame is retired. Not overly happy about this as I was really happy with the geometry and ride. It developed a seatpost creak within the first 150 miles or so. The hole is a bit bigger than it probably should be as the seat post will slide down on its own if the clamp isn’t tight. I’ve tried shimming the post with aluminum and teflon, but nothing would prevent the creak from coming back. Not sure which came first, the creak or the crack.
I haven’t contacted Waltly yet as I’m sure there’s no warranty at this point.
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That is a real shame!
Maybe there is a local framebuilder that works in titanium and can repair it? Seems like a small enough crack where that could be an option.
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@bxcc, sorry to read it wasn't a good experience at all :-\
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There’s a local machine shop that I’m sure would be able to fix it. I’d want to add a bridge behind the seat tube to help stiffen that area up. I think if the crack is welded and nothing else is done, it will just crack again. For now I’m going to hang it on the shop wall of shame. I’ve ordered a carbon frame from Spcycle that will be its replacement.
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Sad to see that happen bxcc.
I actually have 3 Waltly bikes now and all have seen more mileage than yours and still going strong. Here's hoping Waltly would still honour their warranty.
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Sorry if this has been asked but i was not able to find it. what does a basic Ti frame from Waltly cost? i know this is a loaded question as there is a lot of customizing that can be done but just a run of the mill gravel frame or road frame? I would really like to go this route but i kind of want to have a ball park before i get going. Thank you in advance.
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Sorry if this has been asked but i was not able to find it. what does a basic Ti frame from Waltly cost? i know this is a loaded question as there is a lot of customizing that can be done but just a run of the mill gravel frame or road frame? I would really like to go this route but i kind of want to have a ball park before i get going. Thank you in advance.
$700 to $1000 plus shipping which will be about $200 to the US.
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Sad to see that happen bxcc.
I actually have 3 Waltly bikes now and all have seen more mileage than yours and still going strong. Here's hoping Waltly would still honour their warranty.
What size seat post on your Waltly frames? This one has a 31.6 post and it's a sloppy fit. My gravel frame from Waltly has a 30.9 and it fits much better with no slop.
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Sorry if this has been asked but i was not able to find it. what does a basic Ti frame from Waltly cost? i know this is a loaded question as there is a lot of customizing that can be done but just a run of the mill gravel frame or road frame? I would really like to go this route but i kind of want to have a ball park before i get going. Thank you in advance.
My 3rd one, commissioned on 2022 was US$1300. Excluding shipping & duties. My frame costs more as I had ovalize top tube.
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What size seat post on your Waltly frames? This one has a 31.6 post and it's a sloppy fit. My gravel frame from Waltly has a 30.9 and it fits much better with no slop.
My gravel bike & touring bike are 27.2mm while my ht mtb was 31.6mm. Never had any issues with any of my seatposts (cf, titanium & dropper post).
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I've emailed some pictures to Waltly and they have been very responsive. They have offered a discount on a new frame rather than shipping this one back but I haven't been told what that discount will be yet. My wife does want a gravel bike to replace her Trek Domane so I'll have to see what my options are. I'm just happy that Waltly isn't ghosting me and they are trying to come up with a solution. Much better than some of the horror stories on here of various carbon vendors.
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Sorry if this has been asked but i was not able to find it. what does a basic Ti frame from Waltly cost? i know this is a loaded question as there is a lot of customizing that can be done but just a run of the mill gravel frame or road frame? I would really like to go this route but i kind of want to have a ball park before i get going. Thank you in advance.
The road frame that I have on order (which is almost finished - they are doing logos and then it's going to be done!) cost me 8100 Chinese Yuan, or about US$1200 including Chinese domestic shipping and a carbon fork.
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Round two should be here by the end of August. The geometry has some slight changes but nothing major as I was happy with how it was for my riding style and location. Hopefully I get more than 500 miles out of this one.
Changes:
30.9 seatpost from 31.6
67 degree headtube angle from 68
sliding dropouts from EBB
62mm BB drop from 60mm
440mm seat tube from 450mm
640mm TT from 635mm
115mm HT from 110mm
Internal cable routing
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Wow.. your frame looks very similar to my frame ... I had mine built just as the pandemic was starting.
In similar, I mean the twin-top tube design. My inspiration came from the Vassago MooseKnuckle frame, but with custom geometry. I chose external cable routing, as I am not a big fan of internal routing and dealing with brake fluid.
Couple questions ...
Did Walty try to convince to not use two seat-tube to top-tube connecting tubes? They wanted to do it with one, but I convinced them to do it with two, but there was a 20-40 dollar fee. Even then, that is the only part of the frame where the mitering is sloppy and there is a fair bit of filler weld material.
How much of a discount did they give you on this new frame?
Cheers
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The MooseKnuckle is a super cool looking bike. When I did the original frame in June of 2020, I was torn between the MooseKnuckle design or the Kona Honzo Ti design. I ultimately went with the straight lines of the Honzo as it gives me just a bit more stand over clearance.
They did recommend the single tube but it just didn't look right to me. This time around, they didn't mention it at all. Probably since I asked to make the same frame with just a couple of tweaks.
As for the discount, it was roughly $200 or so. Doesn't seem like much but they were willing to fix my current frame if I sent it to them. I'm assuming that discount is reflective of what time they would have into the repair. Better than nothing I guess.
How is your frame working out?
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My frame rips! I started out as a hardtail rider 20 plus years ago and it is still my favorite kind of frame to ride. Admittedly, now that I am older, it beats me up more, but I find no other frame type as satisfying to “feel” the trail.
My frame is going on three years now, probably somewhere between 4,000 to 5,000 miles on it. It is one of three frames I ride.I have been happy with it!
Now that I have seen the crack on yours, I will have to check over that area. I do run a 400mm x 30.9 seatpost that snugly fits. My first Walty frame (circa 2014) was speced for a 27.2 post, but like yours, I had to shim it. I was lucky to find an old Syncros 27.4 that fit perfectly
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New frame is ready to ship. I hope to have a bit better luck with this one.
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New frame is ready to ship. I hope to have a bit better luck with this one.
Wow. Pretty long turnaround time on your cracked frame. What was the delay?
With how its gone down, would you say its still worth it to try chinese Ti?
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Most of the turnaround was on my end as I wasn't sure what I was going to do. Once the order was placed, it was still about 2 months until the frame was ready though.
As far as going down this road again, I'll have to wait and see how this frame works out. The gravel frame Waltly made for me has been great so it could be a design issue with the frame that cracked. The small changes I've made to this one will hopefully strengthen up the area that cracked on the first frame.
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Those of you who have gone through the design process with Waltly, how difficult is getting some modern geo? I would love a TI hardtail similar to the Marin San Quentin or El Roy, but I am totally new to bike design.
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One nice thing about going through Waltly, or any other Chinese Ti vendor, you can pick the geometry you want. Just send them the geometry chart for the bike you want it to be like and they can match it. Most of the time, you can keep that geometry and add some custom touches like internal routing, sliding drop outs, or my favorite twin top tubes. As long as there's no conflicting design aspects but they will tell you if it can't be done.
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Those of you who have gone through the design process with Waltly, how difficult is getting some modern geo? I would love a TI hardtail similar to the Marin San Quentin or El Roy, but I am totally new to bike design.
To be honest, I don't know what constitute modern geo. But I have 3 custom frames from Waltly. My geos are based on Jamis (gravel bike) and Niner (HT XC & gravel bike) with some modifications and added features. Communication is pretty smooth. As long as you can articulate what you want in English, there won't be any ptoblem. Waltly's people are pretty knowledgeable with the bike standards. They have often gave me options when I was unclear with what I wanted. But the one thing I would like to emphasize is their patience. I was initially going for a Trek Stache elevated chainstay. It took us close to 2 weeks trying to make it work. Unfortunately, it couldn't be done so I had to go to plan B. Even though I settled for my second choice, I wasn't completely bummed as we did try to make it work. So if the modern geo you want is doable, they will do it. If not, they will inform you.