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Re: dcrf26 frame - Scott Foil?
Quote from: patliean1 on June 16, 2023, 08:38:58 AM
Heads up: This frame uses the same front derailleur design as both VeloBuild and Rinasclta/Air Wolfe.

Which is precisely why I chose eTap for my VeloBuild CX-002 build. Having used that FD design with mechanical shifting on 3 previous Chinese bikes, I refuse to ever go back. Like ever ever ever.


For the 105 R7000 mechanical front derailleur, what works for me with these frames is running the cable housing all the way to the FD's cable stopper (see attached image for reference). Then I use any of these clips from Amazon or AliExpress for the cable housing/frame body interface.
I use the 105 R7000 FD for all my mechanical build no matter the RD or crankset. Cheap and very easy for me to work with.
 
June 17, 2023, 04:08:42 AM 		1
Re: Carbon spokes or CX Ray? I have wheels with both Carbon and CX Ray.... I don't actually notice a difference from the spokes in regards to performance, there may be marginally more stiffness but I do not notice it.  I don't regret buying the carbon spoked Hypers but I don't feel that the spokes make a big difference, it's not like going from a noodle-carbon-frame to a stiff racing frame where you can feel the responsiveness difference.  I just wanted the lightest, fastest wheels I could afford, so I went Hypers with carbon spokes, I have these on my race/climbing bike and I’m happy with them.

When I had a crash, I had to wait for new spokes to be shipped from Winspace which took a while and cost more than expected (shipping).  Therefore, when I bought lightweight wheels for my endurance bike, I went with CX Ray for the ease of replacement with very similar performance.

Basically, I'm happy I have the carbon spoked wheels because I've 'scratched that itch', I bought a pair because I could, I wanted an affordable 'no shortcuts' wheelset.  However, now I have them, my next wheels were CX Ray for similar performance but much more practicality when replacing.  Does this make sense?  Two things here: 'rational' and 'emotional' decisions... emotionally I wanted the carbon spokes, but rationally the difference is negligible. If I hadn’t bought a pair of carbon spokes wheels then I’d have been left wondering.

So like above, if you want all-out , no chances taken, fastest wheels, or just emotionally ‘want them’ then perhaps go carbon. If you just want really good fast wheels, which are probably 'as fast' but want spokes that are easier to find and replace, then go CX Ray.
June 21, 2023, 02:20:15 PM 		1
Re: Carbon spokes or CX Ray? The youtuber PeakTorque has been testing lateral stiffness of several wheels, where he measures rim deflection when placing a weight on the rim of a wheel oriented parallel to the ground, supported at the axle. In these tests, carbon-spoked rims tend to be laterally stiffer than metal spoked wheels. If you look at his Winspace Hyper D67 review video, you will see his graph with the most updated results.

This form of lateral stiffness supposedly translates to wheel flop under load (the kind that causes brake rub). Whether lateral stiffness should be maximized or optimized, or if it has anything to do with how "responsive" the wheel feels is something we can argue over, but it's clear that this way of measuring lateral stiffness is widespread in the industry. Personally I question if this measurement translates well to the wheel flop caused by pedaling, which is sensitive to spoke lacing patterns.

The flip side to high lateral stiffness is that you lose bump compliance in corners. This is because steel spokes stretch more than carbon spokes (by an order of magnitude!) I personally think this is really important in racing, where it's much more important to be able to comfortably rail through corners with rough asphalt, than to save 100 grams or so. Back in the day (10 years ago or so) an old teammate of mine worked at HED, who told me about how HED believed in moderating spoke tension and using a higher spoke angle--specifically pointing at how Zipp at the time would run high spoke tensions with rear wheels laced radially on one side. (I can attest that Zipp wheels from this time felt stiff and zippy as hell, but wagged under pedaling load like a dog). He said that the difference in handling characteristic supposedly driven by these construction differences is why Mark Cavendish insisted on racing debadged HED Stingers over the sponsor wheels when he raced for Columbia Highroad.

Spoke stretch is also a safety issue, carbon spoked wheels (many with open spoke holes in their hubs) theoretically have a higher risk of de-tensioning a spoke or two over a bump and dislodging a spoke nipple from the hub. By comparison, metal spoked wheels are less likely to catastrophically detension.

For this reason, I chose to go with ICAN aero wheels with CX ray spokes for my most recent wheelset. I probably will go for a carbon spoke wheelset in the future, but the proven metal spoke design seemed like a safe choice for the wheelset I've chosen to ride full-time until I decide to buck up and buy a "racing wheelset"


June 21, 2023, 03:54:46 PM 		1
Re: TT-x36 / TT-x38 Tantan send me photos of the TT-x38  :)
June 24, 2023, 03:30:47 AM 		1
Re: dcrf26 frame - Scott Foil? My frameset has arrived. Unpainted, Size 56 w/ 400x120 integrated bars. The 120mm stem is effectively more like 130-135mm because the stem is measured to the center point of the top bars, rather than to the imaginary intersection of where the metal faceplate on a separate stem would meet. This has been the case with every integrated bar I've used. My 125mm Winspace integrated bars measure more like 145mm stem.

Frame (both hangers installed): 1148g
Uncut Fork: 383g
Seatpost: 209g
Handlebars: 395g

First impressions are it looks and feels like every other unpainted frame I've tested in this price point ($500-$900). There has been some attempt to face the caliper mounts, and the T47 threaded bottom bracket looks okay upon first inspection. I have a DUB T47 BB arriving later this week to confirm no issues.

Will get it painted soon, and best believe I will be slamming the heck out of that integrated handlebar.
June 26, 2023, 07:29:10 PM 		1
Re: dcrf26 frame - Scott Foil?
Quote from: abdbeg on June 27, 2023, 05:43:00 AM
Looks good patliean1, could you please also check if it fits 32c tyre?

Website claims 32c tire clearance. I was only able to fit a 32 in the front, but not the rear. Not even close.

Chinese brands are already notorious for overstating tire clearance. I don't understand why TanTan would claim 32c for such an aggressive aero frame in the first place...
June 27, 2023, 08:07:28 AM 		1
Re: dcrf26 frame - Scott Foil? Shame with the tire clearance, but thanks for posting pics and whatnot. Excited to see the build!
June 27, 2023, 10:31:03 AM 		1
Re: dcrf26 frame - Scott Foil? Quick dry run photo before I start painting and building this week. With both my saddle height and handlebar drop setup, I'd say it looks pretty aerooooo.

I'm also testing those new Magene EXAR DB508 Ultra wheels. 58mm rear 50mm front, carbon spokes, 36t DT-Swiss style hub. Weight came in at 1366g. 30mm external, 23mm internal.
June 27, 2023, 02:16:43 PM 		1
Re: dcrf26 frame - Scott Foil?
Quote from: abdbeg on June 30, 2023, 12:14:26 AM
Hey patliean1

I was thinking about tire clearance, i noticed that you are using wheel with 23mm inner width, could it be that it smaller inner width will fit with 32c? Like standard 21mm

The wheels I tested where from my Rinasclta all-road bike which have a 20mm internal and 28mm outer. Coincidentally also from Magene.

Also...my SRAM/DUB T47 bottom bracket arrived last night. Happy to report both BB cups threaded into the frame with no issues at all. I should have the bike built by early next week.  8)
June 30, 2023, 05:52:03 AM 		1
Re: dcrf26 frame - Scott Foil? Quick Update

The bike build is on hold for a few weeks  :(

-Turns out T47 requires it's own BB Tool different from other 16-notch BB tools. 52mm versus 50, 48, and 44. So I had to order one.

-I ordered the wrong "T47 for DUB" bottom bracket. Apparently there are two version of this standard: Inboard and Outboard. I ordered outboard. Inboard means the bearings sit inside the frame/cup, while outboard means they sit...outside of the frame. Outboard is (I think) is for MTB/Gravel frames because the road Sram DUB spindle I have did not clear the frame. The outboard T47 I have is too wide for the crankset so I have order the inboard version.

-I leave on holiday for two weeks so the project will have to wait till I return. Shame because the bottom bracket and crankset are the final things left to finish the build. My 2K clearcoat also arrived super late so I attempted to build the bike with plans of spray protecting it later. Do not do this.

-Speaking of the build there were a couple of quirks. The caliper mounting bolt holes on the fork (the bottom of the two) are not as deep to accommodate a standard length caliper bolt. So you will either need a shorter M6 bolt from the local hardware store or include about 1mm worth of washers in order properly tighten the caliper. This is a frame design flaw.

-In my experience, SRAM rotors are far more prone to arrive out of true than Shimano rotors. Rarely are they ever perfectly straight/aligned/true. So when you pair that to not "perfectly" faced caliper mounts..expect to troubleshoot disc rub. Thankfully the issue is mostly the on rotors not the frame.

I do have high hopes for this frame in terms of stiffness. It will probably ride more like early 90's project tuner car than a modern day sports car.
July 02, 2023, 11:04:12 AM 		1