Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: curvenut on June 30, 2021, 10:32:43 AM
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Hi,
I am very interested to build a road bike but I have a couple questions related to that
1 - cost !
Let say I am interested to the Shimano Ultegra 8020 Hydraulic Disc brake
In AVERAGE, how much does it cost to custom build from A to Z compared to a brand name ?
2 - One of my concer is the warranty of the frame and the parts, since the parts and frame will be ordered at different places and arrived at different time ,
I am concerned that the warranty will expried before I even can finish and try the bike
3 - For the fork, how do you cut and mount it ? Yourself or a bike shop can do it for you ?
Thanks
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Id recommend having a bike shop cut it, its like $5. Ive learned not to mess with something like that (and front derailleurs). A caledonia 5 with 8020 is $5k-$5500 i think? If you go with dengfu, you can literally buy a complete 8020 bike for $2700 with carbon wheels. Can probably get less with veobuild but outsource the carbon wheels and have to pay more. Most warranties i know if are at least two years so if it takes you longer than two years to complete a build, we got other issues.
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Those are some of the big questions when it comes to purchasing a carbon frame direct from a Chinese manufacturer.
The bike I really wanted when I started seriously considering a carbon frame was a Canyon Aeroad. The first 105 r7020 iteration of my current TanTan X-21 build came in way under $1500, not including the Light Bicycle AR46 carbon wheels and SQ Labs seat I had already purchased for the Giant Contend AR 3 I started riding when the pandemic hit. Compare that to $4000 for an out of the box comparatively equipped Aeroad.
I have since upgraded to almost full Ultegra r8020, switched out the LB AR 46s for Scribe Wide+ 60 discs, and included a Quarq PM with SRAM cranks, and a Pro Carbon Stealth seat ($100 usd on Ebay, like new condition). Even with the Ebay parts and deals I could find here and there, all in all, I probably could have taken all the money I spent building up my TanTan frame over the last 9 months and gotten pretty close to buying an actual Ultegra r8020 equipped Canyon Aeroad.
Things I wouldn't have with it, a very good power meter, damn good seat, fast as hell wheels for sure, full cable integration, and all the experience that comes from pricing out parts and building my own bike. Considering all of the issues Canyon has had, I'd have the cash, but I would have had to find an alternative anyway. As it stands, I've been happily riding a pretty good carbon framed bike for 7 months now. Yeah, cutting the steerer ube was scary the first time I did it. But, having that experience made it so much easier the next 3 times I did it to lower my handlebars and on my new Giant frame. Yeah, one time only costs $5, which is great and the way to go if you are only doing it one time. Cost and time adds up with more changes and more bikes. Bottom line, I can do most of the work on my own bike now. I couldn't say that 9 months ago.
Warranties are an issue for sure. My "two year warranty" on my frame is only as good the customer service that comes from TanTan. Meanwhile, I stripped the bottom bracket on my Giant, took it in to my LBS, and had a shiny brand new frame two weeks later.
That being said, I'd be worried about a warranty a lot more if I was riding a bike with a super expensive carbon frame. With my TanTan, worse comes to worse, as long as the bike doesn't disintegrate under me while I'm riding it, I've already saved up enough for a completely new carbon frame. My components are going to wear out at some point anyway, so it's all about having the reserves to replace those as needed.
Just some things to consider.
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Fair point. Have you had to deal with creaks commonly? My two open molds ive had to deal with creaks in the bb area due to various things. Worth the price and fixed them with grease, but i wonder how common it is?
I dont think ill buy a brand name frame again.
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I paid a tad under 2500€ (which was my set budget) for my Dengfu R12 with 55mm Ican Carbon wheels and Shimano 105 (with Rotor Cranks tho).
A similar spec'd current Canyon Aeroad CF SL 7 Disc would cost 3400€.
Carbon Roadbikes with 105/Ultegra start here at 2049€, full Ultegra at 2649€.
If warranty is a big concern for you, buy your bike in a local store.
And also keep in mind, that it can be VERY HARD to get (especially Shimano) groupsets. Bike24 lists the Ultegra Disc Groupset with a delivery time of 66 weeks.
I cut the fork myself.
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Fair point. Have you had to deal with creaks commonly? My two open molds ive had to deal with creaks in the bb area due to various things. Worth the price and fixed them with grease, but i wonder how common it is?
I dont think ill buy a brand name frame again.
I started having some creaks with my first BB, a wheels manufacturing thread together press fit BB86, just before I switched out cranks for the Quarq. I knew I'd be swapping the entire BB and giving the space a good look, so I didn't worry too much about it at the time. The new Wheels Manufacturing press fit conversion to 30mm DUB is basically just a set of bearings, housings, and spacers. I was much more concerned about creaking, but so far so good.
Yeah, unless an Aeroad, or similar Aero frame magically appears in my garage, I'm happy with my bike so far. I would like to ride a genuine Venge or SL7 for a couple hundred miles, just for comparison though, to see what I'm missing out on.
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thanks folks for your feedbak !
so one point I will rememeber, custom build does not imply cheaper !
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custom build does not imply cheaper !
It really depends. The 2049€ and 2649€ bikes from my last post have some basic Aluminium wheels, which would cost you 250-350€ when bought alone. A Chinese Carbon Wheelset can be had for <400€, so you would get more for your money there.
On the other hand, I kinda want a Carbon Trail Fullsus MTB. Radon offers one which I really like for 3049€. A custom build Carbonda with the same suspension and drivetrain components would cost me around 3800€.
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If I would have stuck with the r7020 build, I would have saved a lot of money compared to a similarly equipped Aeroad for sure. I caught the upgrade bug though. If I would have gone with an r8020 build from the outset, even with the power meter and new wheels, I still would have saved money. As it stands, I kicked down the r7020 components to my Giant endurance bike. I like to think that I got 1 and a half bikes for the price of one well equipped name brand bike. That's not even considering availability.
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I have two dengfus one runs 105 and one runs etap, the frames you buy with etap is gonna be $3k+ for the frame (assuming cf). Both of my bikes ran me about 5700 riding, paid $300 for building, fd adjustment and some other bs but im pretty satisfied with that. Like the other guy said, an aeroad with dt 1400 dicut and udi2 or force will run you $5500.
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I paid a tad under 2500€ (which was my set budget) for my Dengfu R12 with 55mm Ican Carbon wheels and Shimano 105 (with Rotor Cranks tho).
A similar spec'd current Canyon Aeroad CF SL 7 Disc would cost 3400€.
Carbon Roadbikes with 105/Ultegra start here at 2049€, full Ultegra at 2649€.
If warranty is a big concern for you, buy your bike in a local store.
And also keep in mind, that it can be VERY HARD to get (especially Shimano) groupsets. Bike24 lists the Ultegra Disc Groupset with a delivery time of 66 weeks.
I cut the fork myself.
Im sorry to comment so much, but you said you have the r12. Did you suffer with brake alignment at all? I cant get it to not rub the littleist bit. Im sure it could ne die to me crashing and slightly bendinf the rotor (which i obv tried to fix a little bit) and maybe its because i have under 100 miles on the pads, but im wondering if theres no such thing as perfect for the r12.
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#1
As a first-time bike builder, my experience closely matches Schumo's. Bike was ~$2500 USD in parts & shipping:
* $560 for VB-R-186 from Velobuild (similar to SL7)
* $615 for 55mm ICAN wheelset off Amazon
* $1000 for Shimano R7020 groupset off Aliexpress
* $150 for tubeless tires (Goodyear Eagle F1 Tubeless)
* ~$200 pedals + saddle + bottle cages + wheels mfg BB + accessories
Tools were another $250: bike stand, torque wrench, brake bleed kit, wheels mfg BB wrench, cassette removal tool, barb press, chain tool, tubeless tape & sealant.
All-in-all, you should plan for roughly a $3k spend for R7020. I thought about upgrading to Ultegra/R8020, and that's simply another $500 from what I saw on Aliexpress.
It's a matter of perspective, but your savings from doing it yourself (valuing your own time at $0/hr) range from minor to maybe $1,000 (valuing warranties at $0). To be fair, I first thought about building my own bike 7 years ago, and at the time, it seemed common knowledge that building wasn't economical; the recent shortage has helped if anything.
The learning experience was super rewarding, which was my primary motivation. I also figured I could amortize some of the tool costs and learning costs since my wife needs a new road bike too.
#2
My warranty request for my first wheelset from Velobuild that ruptured doesn't seem to be doing well. You should probably only undertake this endeavor if you won't be upset by flimsy warranties and setbacks that cost you extra money and time.
#3
Easy to do it yourself. Get a hose clamp (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XAK76Y0?th=1) to help yourself cut straight and a small hacksaw. Don't breathe in the dust.
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I started having some creaks with my first BB, a wheels manufacturing thread together press fit BB86, just before I switched out cranks for the Quarq.
I'm assuming you mean threaded rather than "thread together press fit," right? I spent extra to buy the wheels mfg threaded BB instead of using Shimano's press fit BB. It's repeated often on forums that it avoids creaks. Any tips to avoid a similar fate?
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This is what I had.
https://wheelsmfg.com/bb86-92-outboard-abec-3-bb-for-24mm-shimano-cranks-black.html
I think a fresh reinstall would have taken care of the creaking. That's what I did when I switched to these.
https://wheelsmfg.com/bb86-to-29mm-dub-compatible-kit-for-pressfit-86-92-bottom-bracket-with-flanged-dual-row-black-oxide-sealed-bearings.html
Haven't had any new creaking since I installed these back at the beginning of March. A good cleaning, new coat of grease, took my time.
Hope that helps.
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This is what I had.
https://wheelsmfg.com/bb86-92-outboard-abec-3-bb-for-24mm-shimano-cranks-black.html
I think a fresh reinstall would have taken care of the creaking. That's what I did when I switched to these.
https://wheelsmfg.com/bb86-to-29mm-dub-compatible-kit-for-pressfit-86-92-bottom-bracket-with-flanged-dual-row-black-oxide-sealed-bearings.html
Haven't had any new creaking since I installed these back at the beginning of March. A good cleaning, new coat of grease, took my time.
Hope that helps.
Was it constantly creaking no matter what you did? Im battling creaks right now and it did turn out to be the bottom bracket but i just packed it with grease and put it back on. Now its back. Are you having a similar story?
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Sounds like you are having a harder time of it than me. Sounds like a pain.
I had just started to notice the creaking. It wasn't constant, but it was persistent while riding. Honestly, if I didn't bike in the quiet of 5:00 in the morning, I don't know that I would have noticed it at all. I didn't hear it at all when I put the bike up on a stand to check it out. Like I said, I didn't worry too much about it because I had plans to change the bottom bracket anyway. As mentioned, the fresh install of the new bracket took care of any creaking issues. That was back at the beginning of March. No creaking at all since. I've probably put 1500 miles or so on the new set up.
Best of luck.
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Okay, thanks. My creaking was fine actually until i did a quick little sprint. Its like i jarred something out of place. Its also fine when im maybe under 300 watts, but if i crank it up to over 6-700, i hear it. And its not really a creak id say its a crackling creak kind of thing. One that raises concern but not enough where you know its going to explode. The best sound i could compare it to is if part of the plastic sleeve broke off and is jumping around in there.
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Im sorry to comment so much, but you said you have the r12. Did you suffer with brake alignment at all? I cant get it to not rub the littleist bit. Im sure it could ne die to me crashing and slightly bendinf the rotor (which i obv tried to fix a little bit) and maybe its because i have under 100 miles on the pads, but im wondering if theres no such thing as perfect for the r12.
I think in the very beginning I had small rubbing issues on the fork, but they're gone now.
I try to find the spot where it rubs the most, loose the caliper there and tighten it back while keeping the brakes pulled.
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Thanks, i fixed it for now, ive had bad luck doing your method so i just eyeballed it. Looks good
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This is what I had.
https://wheelsmfg.com/bb86-92-outboard-abec-3-bb-for-24mm-shimano-cranks-black.html
I think a fresh reinstall would have taken care of the creaking. That's what I did when I switched to these.
https://wheelsmfg.com/bb86-to-29mm-dub-compatible-kit-for-pressfit-86-92-bottom-bracket-with-flanged-dual-row-black-oxide-sealed-bearings.html
Haven't had any new creaking since I installed these back at the beginning of March. A good cleaning, new coat of grease, took my time.
Hope that helps.
For those interested, ZTTO also sells threaded press-fit bottom brackets, with or without ceramic bearings.
Apparently it's a good solution to mitigate creaking. Also ready to install and doesn't require special tools
All in, everything from frame to tire sealant, shipping and duties, cost me around $2,400USD (still might get whacked with extra duties, as some large parts still en route)
The closest brand equivalents cost around $3,500 to $4,000 after taxes. And for that price I do not get pedals, carbon wheels, or dual-sided power meters.
Mind you, I went full Chiner on this, with zero mainstream parts except for cable housing.
A lot of people will lose a lot of their savings on the group set, where they won't be able to receive the wholesale price. I went with the Sensah Empire Pro 2x12, which I'd place around 105 R7000 for value.
Warranty? Not overly concerned. An extra $1,000 to $1,500 covers a lot of repairs.
The satisfaction of building your own bike piece by piece? Priceless
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Yeah, i was comparing my bike to a canyon (aeroad or endurance)? Cf slx force etap. It came with reynold wheels, roughly the same weight, $5500. If i wasnt an idiot my bike would cost $4k. But it ended up costing maybe 4100 due to touch up paint and other odds and ends. I wanted my bike to have electronic shifting and i bet force etap maybe costs the companies $1500? Mine costed $2k. So thats one of the ways. The canyon didnt have full integrated cabling, my r12 does.
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Fair point. Have you had to deal with creaks commonly? My two open molds ive had to deal with creaks in the bb area due to various things. Worth the price and fixed them with grease, but i wonder how common it is?
I dont think ill buy a brand name frame again.
Apparently a creaky bottom bracket is just common in general with carbon pressfit frames
Or so Hambini tells us…
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Yeah, i was comparing my bike to a canyon (aeroad or endurance)? Cf slx force etap. It came with reynold wheels, roughly the same weight, $5500. If i wasnt an idiot my bike would cost $4k. But it ended up costing maybe 4100 due to touch up paint and other odds and ends. I wanted my bike to have electronic shifting and i bet force etap maybe costs the companies $1500? Mine costed $2k. So thats one of the ways. The canyon didnt have full integrated cabling, my r12 does.
Force eTap is a sweet groupo nonetheless. Was tempted myself, but just couldn’t pull the trigger on it. Also, broke with my 100% made-in-China rule for my build.
I’m sure your R12 set you back as well, but it is a quality frame.
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it is common to have them but its relatively easy to fix it. my creaks/crack sounds come from the rear thru axle. so if i hear it, i take it out a little, put it back in.
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Force eTap is a sweet groupo nonetheless. Was tempted myself, but just couldn’t pull the trigger on it. Also, broke with my 100% made-in-China rule for my build.
I’m sure your R12 set you back as well, but it is a quality frame.
it did set me back. Looking back on it, i kind of wish i spent an extra $700 and just got the professional prebuilt r12. came with duraace 9170 and dt240 hub carbon wheels. i have dt350 with force. so thats a lesson learned. but i dont know if that $700 would be worth the extra what, 250-300 grams i save? Im starting to realize that 1-2 lbs is minute compared to my body being on the bike.
if you told my past self i was going to be spending $4k on a bike id say you were high.
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if you told my past self i was going to be spending $4k on a bike id say you were high.
Haha, know the feeling. I started this whole process thinking I was doing a budget build for $1500 ($500 frame, $500 groupset, $200 wheelset, $300 accessories). Instead, my budget for two bikes got me only one.
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Yeah, the thought of plopping down $4k + on a bike really put me off. Funny, somehow spending that much piece by piece over several months didn't feel as ridiculous.
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Now my ass is thinking of buying a power meter.
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It'll either completely change, or completely affirm the way you ride. Highly recommended if you are goal oriented.
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Now my ass is thinking of buying a power meter.
Wellll.....I ended up buying 2 Magene P325 CS and selling one.
In the end, got a dual crank power meter for under $200.
Just saying. What's an extra $200 on top of $4000?
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Wellll.....I ended up buying 2 Magene P325 CS and selling one.
In the end, got a dual crank power meter for under $200.
Aren't they $400 a set?
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Aren't they $400 a set?
Yes! However, if you buy direct from Magene on Alibaba (not AliEx) you can buy them for $209 each
Minimum order of 2, and shipping is more expensive. Total was $528 plus I got tagged for duties making it around $575 in total.
So, my math sucks (I have to keep converting between USD and CAD). Sold 1 for a bargain at about $335, meaning my net cost for the P325 CS was $240 (not under $200)
Still not bad.
Similarly, I picked up a set of Elite BWT with Pillar 1420 spokes and the RD13 hub on Alibaba for $580 shipped. The company that owns the Elite brand and manufactures the wheels is Yuan An Composites (thanks Trace Velo)
https://www.elite-wheel.com/elitewheels-bwt-aerodynamics-wheelset-45mm-rim-depth-tubeless-compatible-p3119055.html
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Yes! However, if you buy direct from Magene on Alibaba (not AliEx) you can buy them for $209 each
Minimum order of 2, and shipping is more expensive. Total was $528 plus I got tagged for duties making it around $575 in total.
So, my math sucks (I have to keep converting between USD and CAD). Sold 1 for a bargain at about $335, meaning my net cost for the P325 CS was $240 (not under $200)
Still not bad.
Similarly, I picked up a set of Elite BWT with Pillar 1420 spokes and the RD13 hub on Alibaba for $580 shipped. The company that owns the Elite brand and manufactures the wheels is Yuan An Composites (thanks Trace Velo)
https://www.elite-wheel.com/elitewheels-bwt-aerodynamics-wheelset-45mm-rim-depth-tubeless-compatible-p3119055.html
Thats a nice wheel !
Can you provide the link to the alibaba vendor ? I am interested to buy them.
Thanks
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Thats a nice wheel !
Can you provide the link to the alibaba vendor ? I am interested to buy them.
Thanks
No problem, here is the manufacturer's Alibaba store
https://xmcarbon.m.en.alibaba.com/?spm=a2706.7835515.MSiteNewCompany.0.sjyii440v