Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: velofranner on November 05, 2014, 12:56:47 PM
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Hi All
So I've just received my first components for the build! And I thought it was a good time to start this build thread :)
I'm planning to have the build done next summer (It's a long time away, but I can manage it). Currently I don't know quite yet to get the IP-057 or the IP-256, but I think I will buy that eventually, so there is much time to think. I'm also a bit unsure which wheels I'm gonna buy, so if you have any suggestions then they are welcome, but a price around 450$ would be great.
All my carbon parts is gonna be UD Matt, and with green: ESI Chunky Grips and a Race Face Narrow Wide chainring it's gonna look great I think.
I will update the thread when I get more components. I will also post pictures of all the components.
UPDATE
I will buy the IP-036 frame instead.
And finally here is my build list:
(http://s14.postimg.org/qc8nmn92p/Udklip.png)
The blue boxes is the things that I currently have bought.
/Velofranner
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When it comes to wheels try to find DT350/Hope2Evo on Crests or a similar rim. Could be hard to get at that price point but doable. Switching front hub to Novatec would lower the price, but treat it as last resort ;P
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Thanks for the suggestion JohhnyNT, I will try to consider that. I've also looked at the XMIPLAY IP-HR930C with the DT 240S hub even though they are over my budget! They just look very nice!
Here is a little update of the components I got:
(http://s28.postimg.org/f1qalvi71/DSC_0751.jpg)
I like these blue boxes :)
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When it comes to wheels try to find DT350/Hope2Evo on Crests or a similar rim. Could be hard to get at that price point but doable. Switching front hub to Novatec would lower the price, but treat it as last resort ;P
Hope hubs and ZTR rims are my version of a fantastic MTB wheel at a reasonable price. If you're building, remember to check the UK sites like Wiggle.co.uk for the Hope hubs, you can save a TON vs. US suppliers. The only thing I'd warn is if gravity loves you more than others, the Crest might not be enough rim. The Arch is great, I've got a set (pre-Arch EX) that have been bombproof. I know guys of my stature (6'+, 200lbs+) who weren't as thrilled with the Crest.
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If your budget for wheels is ~$450, I would stretch the price a bit and but the carbon fiber wheels from Iplay or Lightbike. You will get the Novotech hubs, which are probably not quite as nice as DT Swiss, but they are still very solid performers and rarely give any trouble. The carbon rims on the other hand, will be significantly stronger and stiffer than most any other alloy rim out there of the same width and/or weight. The 30mm, hookless wheels from Iplay are a favorite on here and I've personally had experience with 3 sets (on bikes I and my coworkers built). They have been great and are still nice a true after hundreds of miles and a few crashes. A friend with lightweight Stans rims is always having to true his. YMMV.
I think the Iplay 30mm hookless wheels are around $560 a set or so. Lightbike may have other options too and both will do graphics and weave pattern I believe.
Look more into wider rims; the industry is moving that direction for a number of advantages over traditional narrow XC wheels.
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
I would also be most happy with carbon wheels instead of alu, when (almost) all the other things of the bike are made of carbon. I'm looking forward to see which decision I make! :)
But my next item on the shopping list is:
Shimano XT M785 Brake Set
Shimano XT M786 Shadow+ GS Derailleur
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UPDATE
So I found an offer on the RockShox Reba RL at 300$! And there was only 1 left, because of that I bought it.
It's the version with: 100mm, Tapered, Maxle Lite. The fork pump and service kit was included!
Here is a pic:
(http://s27.postimg.org/5scjklnsj/DSC_0753.jpg)
I did also buy a Shimano 16T cog for the XT cassette if I'm going to make the OneUp upgrade. I know that they also include a 16T cog with their 42T cog, but I just read on some forums that it ain't that good.
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Im watching and learning
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UPDATE
So I found an offer on the RockShox Reba RL at 300$! And there was only 1 left, because of that I bought it.
It's the version with: 100mm, Tapered, Maxle Lite. The fork pump and service kit was included!
Here is a pic:
(http://s27.postimg.org/5scjklnsj/DSC_0753.jpg)
I did also buy a Shimano 16T cog for the XT cassette if I'm going to make the OneUp upgrade. I know that they also include a 16T cog with their 42T cog, but I just read on some forums that it ain't that good.
That's a smoking deal. Strong work.
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Yeah Vipassana I rushed home from school to buy it!
And by the way it was at the german shop called Rose. They have great reputation in Germany. And I live in Denmark so the delivery wasn't very pricey.
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UPDATE
Just a little update, I've bought the Race Face Narrow Wide 32T chainring in green! It looks nice.
Here it is!
(http://s29.postimg.org/9z3zzbsgn/IMG_20141203_162627.jpg)
And I didn't show you the Shimano 16T cog in the last post, so if you wanna know then it looks like that.
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Damn that Reba is a steal. I paid 500 and I thought I got a good deal.
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Christmas time!
I've got these ESI Chunky Grips as a present, they look and feel very nice.
(http://s30.postimg.org/ui6donyi9/IMG_20141225_153139.jpg)
I plan to buy the: M786 rear derailleur and the M785 brakes in january.
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Christmas time!
I've got these ESI Chunky Grips as a present, they look and feel very nice.
The ESI grips are primo, you're gonna like them. I go back and forth between ODI Ruffians and ESI grips, but my wife's been running nothing but ESI for years now.
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Not going to pretend to be all that experienced here, but I would add $110 to your budget and get the carbon wheels from Iplay or similar on Novatech hubs for $560. I just got the 30 millimeter id rims, & I will be darned if these are not Roval rims, (which with DT hubs cost $1500). these are going to be an awesome upgrade to ride on, but beyond that, the thing I'm most excited about is not having to true wheels as frequently, or likely at all! These wheels are Beefy, strong, and light.
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The ESI grips are primo, you're gonna like them. I go back and forth between ODI Ruffians and ESI grips, but my wife's been running nothing but ESI for years now.
Sounds good! I've only read good things about them!
Not going to pretend to be all that experienced here, but I would add $110 to your budget and get the carbon wheels from Iplay or similar on Novatech hubs for $560. I just got the 30 millimeter id rims, & I will be darned if these are not Roval rims, (which with DT hubs cost $1500). these are going to be an awesome upgrade to ride on, but beyond that, the thing I'm most excited about is not having to true wheels as frequently, or likely at all! These wheels are Beefy, strong, and light.
I would REALLY love to have carbon wheels also, but it depends on how cheap I can get the other components :-).
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Another update
I received the M785 brakes and the M786 rear derailleur:
(http://s3.postimg.org/rudk0u9gz/IMG_20150111_104843.jpg)
They look good!
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Okay guys another update...
I'm about to buy the wheelset - unfortunatly I do not have the funds to buy a carbon wheelset (And if I bought them I would have to pay antidumping to the customs, so that ain't gonna happen) - so I've looked at two wheelsets. They are both with DT Swiss 240s hubs. And I would like to get some feedback from you guys, so you maybe can help me choose:
- DT Swiss 240s hubs, Fun Works Atmosphere XL (28mm external; 23mm internal) rims and DT Swiss Competition Race spokes, Weight 1640g - http://www.actionsports.de/en/dt-swiss-240s-disc-is-atmosphere-xl-comp-race-laufradsatz-29er-1640g-4237?c=401 (http://www.actionsports.de/en/dt-swiss-240s-disc-is-atmosphere-xl-comp-race-laufradsatz-29er-1640g-4237?c=401)
- DT Swiss 240s hubs, Ryde Trace XC 21 (24,4mm external; 20,8mm internal) rims and Sapim D-Light spokes, Weight 1450g - http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/dt-swiss-240s-disc-is-ryde-trace-xc-29-wheelset-15mm-x-12-260769?currency=9&delivery_country=227 (http://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/dt-swiss-240s-disc-is-ryde-trace-xc-29-wheelset-15mm-x-12-260769?currency=9&delivery_country=227)
The rim width is different, and I don't know what I should choose...
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I know nothing about atmosphere XL rims, but Trace XC are great (several people on Polish light-bike forum use them and are very happy). And 200 g off on rotating mass is huge !! If only these DT were Straight pull I would buy the latter wheelset too. Anyway, my vote for Trace XC :)
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I know nothing about atmosphere XL rims, but Trace XC are great (several people on Polish light-bike forum use them and are very happy). And 200 g off on rotating mass is huge !! If only these DT were Straight pull I would buy the latter wheelset too. Anyway, my vote for Trace XC :)
Thanks JohnnyNT :-)
The Atmosphere XL rims are from Actionsports own brand, I don't know much about them either. I can't find any custom wheelsets that are with 240s straight pull, but those would be great!
Votes:
Ryde Trace: 1
Atmosphere XL: 0
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Well, there is a guy in Poland, a real experienced wheelbuilder who sells custom wheelsets like the one below:
DT 350s Straight pull hubs+ ZTR Crest front 28h rear 32h + Pillar X-TRA 1420 Spokes
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.509463069153548.1073741826.174503159316209&type=3
Weight for 29er is about 1480g and the price ~400 Euro.
Considering that 350s have the same inner parts as 240s, just a tad heavier case, it is a great deal ;)
I do not know if he ships abroad, you can contact him at sklep@daveo.pl
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I would ask what type of riding you think you will be doing and how much do you weigh?
If your riding is harder trail riding and you are over 80kg, I would go with the wider, heavier wheels.
If your riding is more XC without many drops, roots, and rocks AND you weigh less than 80kg, go for the lighter, more narrow wheelset.
I learned my lesson with my DT Swiss XR1450 wheels. My weight is ~90kg and I ride some fairly rough trails with lots of rocks and tree roots. I loved the light weight DT Swiss wheels but after only a few months of riding, I bent a rear wheel enough that it could not be brought back to true. I purchased a new XR1450 rim and replaced the one that was bent, however I'm sure I will bend the rear wheel again in the future. When I do, I will rebuild the wheel with a carbon hoop from Iplay.
My other bike has Iplay 30mm carbon rims and Bitex hubs. I've ridden these wheels pretty hard and they are just as true as when they were new. They seem to be much stronger than the DT Swiss wheels but they are 1560g. For me and my riding, I need the extra weight and strength of my Iplay wheelset.
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I would ask what type of riding you think you will be doing and how much do you weigh?
If your riding is harder trail riding and you are over 80kg, I would go with the wider, heavier wheels.
If your riding is more XC without many drops, roots, and rocks AND you weigh less than 80kg, go for the lighter, more narrow wheelset.
I learned my lesson with my DT Swiss XR1450 wheels. My weight is ~90kg and I ride some fairly rough trails with lots of rocks and tree roots. I loved the light weight DT Swiss wheels but after only a few months of riding, I bent a rear wheel enough that it could not be brought back to true. I purchased a new XR1450 rim and replaced the one that was bent, however I'm sure I will bend the rear wheel again in the future. When I do, I will rebuild the wheel with a carbon hoop from Iplay.
My other bike has Iplay 30mm carbon rims and Bitex hubs. I've ridden these wheels pretty hard and they are just as true as when they were new. They seem to be much stronger than the DT Swiss wheels but they are 1560g. For me and my riding, I need the extra weight and strength of my Iplay wheelset.
Thanks Carbon_Dude
Well my mountainbiking is primarily a supplement to my road biking which I do most. Most of the terrain here in Denmark is quite flat and the trails are mostly XC (some trails have quite many roots, but not many). My weight is 64 kg (19 years).
I've also heard many who think that wider rims are better for everybody.
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Given your weight and moderate trail conditions, it seems like the lighter 1450g wheels should work fine for you. However, some people who are 19 years of age believe they are invincible and can really abuse wheels :). If you are not one of those, then go with the lighter weight 8).
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ZTR crest are fine wheels - have them myself - went with 32h to stiffen them up - some complain they are squirrley?
So, glad to see at least the rear is 32...based on your stated riding those would work well.
I would rather have the DT240s so I would choose the XL Trace(seem similar to Crest).
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Given your weight and moderate trail conditions, it seems like the lighter 1450g wheels should work fine for you. However, some people who are 19 years of age believe they are invincible and can really abuse wheels :). If you are not one of those, then go with the lighter weight 8).
Okay thanks Carbon_Dude :-)
ZTR crest are fine wheels - have them myself - went with 32h to stiffen them up - some complain they are squirrley?
So, glad to see at least the rear is 32...based on your stated riding those would work well.
I would rather have the DT240s so I would choose the XL Trace(seem similar to Crest).
Thanks brmeyer135
Hmm...XL Trace? A combination?! The Ryde Trace is quite different, they have a offset of 3 mm:
(http://r2-bike.com/bilder/produkte/gross/RYDE-Felge-29-Trace-XC-21-mm-340g_b6.jpg)
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Trace XC are similar to Crest in mass (even slightly lighter IIRC) and inner width, yet they are asymmetric and can work with higher spoke tension. People say they are slightly more durable than Crest too.
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Yes that is also what I have read. Well there is also another option: Ryde Trace Trail. Internal width: 24,8 mm. External width: 28,8 mm. Would that be better with a bigger tire?
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According to Schwalbe, you shouldn't have much trouble with 21mm rim, even with wider tires.
(http://www.slowtwitch.com/images/glinks/articles/WhatWeNoticed/ETRTOSchwalbe.jpg)
The boom for wider rims is the result of tubeless setups and riding with lower pressure. In such case wider rim improves stability significantly (especially when 2.2 or wider tires are used).
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Aha okay! I think that I would go with Racing Ralph 2.25 or something like that.
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So guys...
I was almost pulling the trigger on the Ryde Trace with DT Swiss 240s, but then I saw this!: http://www.ebay.de/itm/DT-Swiss-240s-Veltec-XM-Carbon-29-Laufradsatz-wheelset-MTB-15-X-12-XX1-/261335758232?pt=Sport_Radsport_Fahrradteile_Komponenten&hash=item3cd8d33598
This are with Veltec carbon rims, I guess that they are exactly the same as many others. But in this way I don't have to pay Anti-dumping. So anybody who can say good for these wheels? And the seller has a quite good rating.
They look quite nice!
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That is an excellent deal on a set of 25mm wide, hand built, carbon wheels with DT Swiss 240 hubs. If I were in the market for wheels, those would be high on my list.
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That is an excellent deal on a set of 25mm wide, hand built, carbon wheels with DT Swiss 240 hubs. If I were in the market for wheels, those would be high on my list.
That is also what I am thinking! Glad I found the shop. :-)
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In USD, the hubs alone are about $500/set. The entire wheelset is $850, so I'd say this is a really good deal. Wonder if they ship to the US.
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In USD, the hubs alone are about $500/set. The entire wheelset is $850, so I'd say this is a really good deal. Wonder if they ship to the US.
Maybe its such a good deal that I shouldn't had posted it ;) Haha
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In USD, the hubs alone are about $500/set. The entire wheelset is $850, so I'd say this is a really good deal. Wonder if they ship to the US.
Maybe its such a good deal that I shouldn't had posted it ;) Haha
Doesn't 1618g seem strangely high for carbon rims and 240s hubs? **especially** with Sapim Lasers.
Notice that the disk mount runs all the way to the flange, it's not cut back like the 240s in this photo:
http://www.dtswiss.com/Components/Hubs-MTB/240s-3
Also, two flanges of the same diameter, unlike the hub in the photo. Plus the machining on the pictured front hub looks *rough*. Maybe an OEM version
The rear hub in the auction looks exactly like the one on DT's site, so that's good.
Actually, I did the math. DT hubs are 145g and 230g (and the pictured front would be heavier) with 64 Laser spokes at 273g (260mm, round up to 300g for longer) and that works out to 471g per rim. 1618g just seemed high, but no, that's pretty reasonable considering those weights.
Pay no attention to me. :D
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UPDATE
The wheelset came yesterday! It is so nice! I got it a little cheaper...700 eur :-). An AWESOME deal. Cheaper than China.
Veltec XM-Carbon rims
DT Swiss 240s hubs
Sapim Laser spokes
Sapim Polyax Aluminium nipples
1618g
(http://s15.postimg.org/yltxk3se3/DSC_0782.jpg)
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Those look really nice, and with DT Swiss 240 hubs at that price you can't do better than that.
I do wonder why the weight isn't less than my XMIplay carbon wheels. Mine are 30mm wide with Bitex hubs, Sapim straight pull spokes, and Sapim nipples and weighed in at 1560g so I am a little curious that yours with DT Swiss hubs weigh 58g more, although that's not all that significant. For another comparison, my 24 mm wide DT Swiss XR1450 aluminum rims with 240 hubs, straight pull spokes, weigh in at 1450g.
Ignoring the weight, which is still very good, those wheels look really nice and should be strong and reliable. The DT Swiss Star Ratchet free hub makes a unique sound, mine tends to pulsate a bit.
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The rims are 27,5mm external width and 20,5mm internal. The 25mm information on the ebay site is not updated. I think they do have a bit more weight because that the design ain't hookless on the rims. I think it's a very competitive weight :).
(http://s8.postimg.org/yhnavdczp/DSC_0775.jpg)
(http://s27.postimg.org/rg0pqgp37/DSC_0762.jpg)
(http://s16.postimg.org/bahlek011/DSC_0772.jpg)
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Cheaper than China.
To be fair, I'm sure they're still made in China (?).
Either way, yeah, those 50 grams aren't going to make a tiny drop of difference - Those are some really nice carbon wheels with top-notch hubs at a great price. Good find, man! Surprisingly, I even really like the graphics on them. The red looks great. I usually always remove decals/graphics on rims but I think in those I'd most likely just remove the "29" on each side to make it slightly less busy looking. But that's just me.
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Cheaper than China.
To be fair, I'm sure they're still made in China (?).
Either way, yeah, those 50 grams aren't going to make a tiny drop of difference - Those are some really nice carbon wheels with top-notch hubs at a great price. Good find, man! Surprisingly, I even really like the graphics on them. The red looks great. I usually always remove decals/graphics on rims but I think in those I'd most likely just remove the "29" on each side to make it slightly less busy looking. But that's just me.
Yes as I wrote earlier I know that 8) I meant that is was cheaper than going the "chiner" way:
...I guess that they are exactly the same as many others....
Yeah the color is nice, but some of my other parts are green so we will have to see :).
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I missed that those wheels also include rim strips which is really nice and is part of the weight that most manufacturers do not include so all the better.
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I missed that those wheels also include rim strips which is really nice and is part of the weight that most manufacturers do not include so all the better.
Actually I didn't think of that either :) Hmm...how much does rim tape weigh?
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Actually I didn't think of that either :) Hmm...how much does rim tape weigh?
Depends heavily on the tape used. Stan's yellow isn't too heavy, but the lightest I've come across is 3M fiberglass reinforced packing tape. Available in some high-strength varieties which I've used on high pressure road tires for years. Also makes tire installation and removal much easier because it is _very_ thin.
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You mean this ? http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Adhesives/Tapes/Products/~/3M-Glass-Cloth-Tape-361?N=5473999+4294924020&rt=rud
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You mean this ? http://solutions.3m.com/wps/portal/3M/en_US/Adhesives/Tapes/Products/~/3M-Glass-Cloth-Tape-361?N=5473999+4294924020&rt=rud
That's an option, but the two I've found that fit the bill the best are the 890 and 898 for road use. I can never remember which is the super high strength and which is the high strength. They also make a version that's designed to come off cleanly which would probably be strong enough for MTB use. The biggest downside of these tapes is they can be a little bit of work to remove if you want a completely clean rim. That one mentioned high temp resistance which isn't completely necessary. Yes, rim brakes could create a bunch of heat but normal rim tapes don't have a problem with that so I wouldn't be too concerned.
The nice thing about the one you listed for MTB use is it'll be 25mm wide and fully cover most MTB rims in terms of width. The 890 and 898 I've only found easily available in 1/2" and 3/4" sizes. Well, larger as well, but 2" is far more than most rims need.
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Quite some time since my last update but!
I got some new stuff:
2 x Schwalbe Nobby Nic Evo 29x2,35 SnakeSkin TrailStar 2015
Shimano XT M780 Pedals
(http://s8.postimg.org/lismgjtgl/DSC_0815.jpg)
Since I'm a road biker, and this is my first MTB, I chose the Nobby Nics because of the good reviews of the newest version. And I got them at a very good price. So I hope I will be happy with my choice. And the XT M780 is pretty much what everybody else uses.
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Just thought about something...Can anyone check if there is enough tire clearence for a 2.35" rear tire on the 036? I hope there is! Otherwise I have made a mistake :-(
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Just thought about something...Can anyone check if there is enough tire clearence for a 2.35" rear tire on the 036? I hope there is! Otherwise I have made a mistake :-(
I don't know for sure, but you may have just enough room:
http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,530.msg7078.html#msg7078
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Just thought about something...Can anyone check if there is enough tire clearence for a 2.35" rear tire on the 036? I hope there is! Otherwise I have made a mistake :-(
Not all 2.35" tires are the same and the width of the rim also changes what the actual tire width is once mounted. My IP-036 fits Racing Ralph 2.35" and Continental X-King 2.35" tires on 30mm carbon rimes with clearance to spare. You should not need to worry.
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Just thought about something...Can anyone check if there is enough tire clearence for a 2.35" rear tire on the 036? I hope there is! Otherwise I have made a mistake :-(
I don't know for sure, but you may have just enough room:
http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,530.msg7078.html#msg7078
Just thought about something...Can anyone check if there is enough tire clearence for a 2.35" rear tire on the 036? I hope there is! Otherwise I have made a mistake :-(
Not all 2.35" tires are the same and the width of the rim also changes what the actual tire width is once mounted. My IP-036 fits Racing Ralph 2.35" and Continental X-King 2.35" tires on 30mm carbon rimes with clearance to spare. You should not need to worry.
Thanks to both of you! Now I'm happy again :-)
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Those will probably be my next tyres. Let us know what you think of em!
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I will do!
Another update:
I bought the saddle a Fizik Tundra M3 Kium, I hope it will suit me well. And the orange color matches the wheels pretty good.
(http://s30.postimg.org/oiroq22bl/DSC_0958.jpg)
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Glad you're keeping the build thread updated; really looking forward to seeing it all come together. And yeah, the saddle will look sick with those wheels.
Perhaps I missed it while skimming through your thread, but have you decided which frame you're going to get yet?
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Glad you're keeping the build thread updated; really looking forward to seeing it all come together. And yeah, the saddle will look sick with those wheels.
Perhaps I missed it while skimming through your thread, but have you decided which frame you're going to get yet?
Im really liking when I have a new component picture to post! I'm estimating that the bike will be done in november, then it will be a one year build :) Which was what I expected.
First I would grab the 256 SL but I changed my mind and now I will buy the CS-036! :)
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Im really liking when I have a new component picture to post! I'm estimating that the bike will be done in november, then it will be a one year build :) Which was what I expected.
First I would grab the 256 SL but I changed my mind and now I will buy the CS-036! :)
Haha. A year long build thread. It's actually kinda cool watching the thread/build for a long length of time like that.
And yeah, the 036.. good choice, imo!