Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: foamman1 on November 11, 2014, 04:17:06 PM
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Hey everyone,
I have been shopping for a new mtb for about 6 months. I have been ridding a MonGoose wally world special. It's a pig at 38lbs but it has served me well. After reading every thread in this forum and so many that my eyes are crossed in the mtb forums i still have a ton of unanswered questions. I have come to the conclusion that it may be simpler to build a hard tail rather than a full suspention since it is my first build.
So this it what i have come up with so far. It looks like the IP-057 looks popular as well as the 256. I was leaning toward the IP-057 as i am not crazy about the wishbone behind the seat post. So a few questions for now.
1. When you order from IP has anyone been charged import taxes/ fees? I have heard or radio control items from china coming labeled as a gift to avoid taxes.
2. I am 175 lbs 5' 9" tall. I ride mostly single track trails. No big hills or drops, but lots of roots and I mean alot of roots with small drops 1'+/- . Would the IP-057 be well suited for this type of ridding? Would another frame be a better choice?
This is my first build so any advice/pitfall warnings would be appreciated.
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From what I can tell, the odds of getting hit up on the taxes/fees are pretty low. My guess is less than 5%, but that is an absolute guess based on no data whatsoever so take it for what you will.
As for your frame choice.. First of all, you're coming from a Mongoose wally world special so this is going to be a HUGE upgrade for you and you're going to be blown away by how much more fun it is to ride a better bike. Especially a higher end carbon one like you intend to build.
Now that that's out of the way.. Like you, I wasn't a fan of the wishbone on the 256, but so far I haven't heard of one single complaint about that particular part of the frame. I certainly don't think you should let it be your deciding factor. I own the 057 and between it and the 256.. I honestly think I'd be equally happy with either. I avoided the 256 at the time bc it hadn't been out long enough to have built up a good reputation within the community. Also, there was a fairly significant waiting period for the 256. I don't think either of those are really concerns at this point.. Like I said, haven't heard of a single complaint about the durability and quality of the 256, and it's more readily available now, as well.
So.. now that I just made you second guess your decision lol, allow me to go one further and say that it really sounds like what you want is a full squish but don't wan more complexity added to your first build. While that's understandable, it's really not much more complex.. maybe just a little, but not enough for it to make you sway one way or the other. Just do a bit more research to pick out the proper shock, and installing it isn't all too hard.
I apologize if I didn't exactly answer your question but if your trails are as rooty as you say, and you were already kinda wanting a full squish, and your Mongoose I'm guessing is already a full squish.. Then perhaps you should give the full suspension route a bit more consideration? If your budget allows, don't worry about getting through the build.. ask as any questions and post as many pics or videos that you need and we'll talk you through it.
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So this it what i have come up with so far. It looks like the IP-057 looks popular as well as the 256. I was leaning toward the IP-057 as i am not crazy about the wishbone behind the seat post. So a few questions for now.
What is it about the wishbone you don't like? If it's just a visual thing, I understand that, but that design has been used for many years in frames of all different materials.
2. I am 175 lbs 5' 9" tall. I ride mostly single track trails. No big hills or drops, but lots of roots and I mean alot of roots with small drops 1'+/- . Would the IP-057 be well suited for this type of ridding? Would another frame be a better choice?
This is my first build so any advice/pitfall warnings would be appreciated.
Sounds like you might want a suspension frame, like Sitar_Ned said. Really it's no more complicated except you have to find a rear shock of the right size and the proper bushings, but that's pretty easy. Then again, if you have an out-of-the-saddle riding style, the hardtail might work fine for the roots.
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I think the thing that i most disliked about the 256 was the poor position of the bottom pull derailer tube. I have seen some pics with some crazy cable routing. May be in real life they may work fine. Not being familiar with the different style of derailers I feared I would have do deal with a set up that was troublesome.
As far as the full suspension. When i first started looking at a new bike the only thing that i was considering was a FS because that is what i was ridding. The suspension is so limited on what I am currently riding, it just as well be full ridged. I was also considering FS because I am 41yrs old and have AS(this is rheumatoid arthritis of the spine). But after considering quality front suspension and the compliance of carbon and 29" vrs 26" that i currently ride I thought that it would be a vast improvement of what i have now. I have never been on a carbon bike, but the riders on the trails i ride seem to think that the hard tails are fine. I don't mind getting out of the saddle to pedal over the roots, but i prefer to sit.
The hard tail was appealing for the simplicity, weight and pedaling efficiency. Any input on what my expectations of the HT or FS should be would be helpful.
By the way i have the reba 100mm fork /tapered on delivery for this afternoon(i found a good deal and couldn't pass it up).
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Got a good source for Reba inexpensive let us know. Thanks,
Andy
IP 036
LTK 023
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Have you ever lost something. It is so frustrating to loose something. Funny thing. I have been searching for a good deal on a reba or manitou tower pro for a month. I ran across a new reba from someone on mtb forums. It came with a frame combo so the story goes. As advertised as never used. The pics looked as though a headset was never installed ie. no marks on the steer tube. I negotiated for 325 shipped. I payed my money and about one hour later i was cruising one of the forums and rand across an advertisement for chain reaction cycles for 20% off in the cart. So i Go to the web site plug in the exact reba i just bought and it was about 10 dollars less than i just paid. Still fair enough. I did a shopping cart with some components slx brakes, xt sprockets and such. During the night my computer updated and and all is lost. I cant for the life of me remember what the code was, and i didn't write it down. although i wrote down the regular prices compared to 20% off prices. I have been trying to find that code again and can't for the life of me. If someone finds it or one for merlin's please pass it along.
Best prices on a reba will be at Merlins or CRC. State side i would look at Price point. Arts has 15% of (SAVE15) in the cart for the items that i bought, but he only has some of the high end rockshox forks.
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No problem Foamman if you do come up with the coupon code let us know. Thanks!
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After exchanging emails with Peter at XMI-Play for a bout a week i found it could be as much as 45 day before shipping. While i don't mind waiting, as he seems to be one of the preferred vendors for the 057. Would anyone care to comment on other vendors frames or customer service such as Hong-Fu bikes, Deng-Fu or Lite bikes. I have read through the 3oo+ page thread on MTB forums. It was hard to keep up with what were the better frames or vendors with so much of topic discussion. I know that ordering a frame from an out of country vendor is like rolling the dice. I just don't want to order a frame that has a high or above average failure rate.
Thanks Again,
L.T.
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After exchanging emails with Peter at XMI-Play for a bout a week i found it could be as much as 45 day before shipping.
Welcome to the party!!! I'm on day 35 of what was originally projected to be 20-25 days...
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Hi Foemman1, I have both an IP-057 and an IP-036 FS Chiner as well as a couple discs in my lower back that are not in as good of condition as I would like. The advice I have to offer is that both carbon bikes are good but depending on the trails you ride, you might want to lean towards the FS IP-036 if you would benefit from a bit more comfort on your rides. The trails I ride are a bit tougher on a hardtail, my FS bikes take some of the edge off and allows me to ride a few more miles with a bit less fatigue.
The carbon hardtail smoothes out the small vibrations but the FS does that as well as smoothing out the trail. Also, maybe Peter has an IP-036 he can ship to you sooner.
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Yea no luck on the 036. The only frame from Iplay currently with bsa bb is the 256 in 15". I seem to remember that peter linked Iplay to cbf store on ebay in the 300 + page thread on mtb forums. I haven't looked at ebay much as they seem to be second rated, cosmetic flaws or other issues that i want to avoid. Peter if you are reading can you confirm that iplay and cbf ebay store are on in the same?
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Have you tried Hongfu or Deng-fu or Miracle- believe they all get the frames from the same place and sell the same models with different names.
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After exchanging emails with Peter at XMI-Play for a bout a week i found it could be as much as 45 day before shipping.
Welcome to the party!!! I'm on day 35 of what was originally projected to be 20-25 days...
Bert told me 30-45 days on a 057. Is Peter better to deal with? There seems to be some "lost in translation" going on with Bert.
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After exchanging emails with Peter at XMI-Play for a bout a week i found it could be as much as 45 day before shipping.
Welcome to the party!!! I'm on day 35 of what was originally projected to be 20-25 days...
Bert told me 30-45 days on a 057. Is Peter better to deal with? There seems to be some "lost in translation" going on with Bert.
They're representing the same company, XmiPlay/iPlay, and the same service and quality. But I think Peter's English is better than Bert's (and mine ;) ).
But I can tell you, I had to wait more than 45 days on my IP256SL and it was really worth it. Don't have any regrets. The 057 is the same quality, cheaper, well proven and I'm sure you'll have a lot of fun when the build is done. You will forget the waiting.
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Well it looks like I'll be pulling the trigger on the HongFu 057. I have been speaking with Cherry at HongFu. Easy enough to deal with so far. And from what i can interpret on the monster thread at MTB HongFu seems to be at the top of the pile with iplay. Hongfu has a pretty decent inventory, may be low volume but a decent variety. Pricing is only slightly higher than iplay.
brmeyer135- I did also talk to deng fu, resonponse was fast as well, but being new to this forum and MTB forum I haven't read enough about dengfu to be comfortable with using them. I didn't contact Miracle bike as i know even less about them.
Squishee- I have only had communications with peter at iplay. He was prompt with replies, though i did get that lost in translation felling a little. Peter did mention that it could be less than 45 maybe 30 days, so bert and peter are on the same page. Even with the 45 day wait i still gave them serious consideration, because their frames seem to have the least negative feedback. Its just 45 days waiting, maybe and then 10 or 15 shipping , that puts you 60 day out. I live in the deeeep south. Winter only last till about the middle of January, and most of you in the north wouldn't hesitate to ride on what i call an inside day. I do feel that if your package arrives and there are no problems you will forget about the wait.
On a side note. I ordered a cargo trailer about 10 years ago from a well know brand. I wanted a silver one, and all they had was white. The salesman said 30 days. I paid and 35 days later i called. Still 30-45 more days. I waited patiently. On the 45th day i showed up. I got the runaround, blaa, blaa. Two weeks later out of the blue it shows up. The moral of the story weather you are dealing with a salesman, contractor or what ever- once they have your money you have little or no control.
I also wanted to correct myself. I mentioned in an earlier post about ipaly being connected to a ebay store cbf. I went back and read a little closer. Peter referred to cbf store only to compare his pricing to theirs. It looks as though a_baygoods and fly-xii and cbf are all the same vendor or sale the same identical products. It looks like the stock photos taken on the same sidewalks along with an unusual mix of the same items (bike parks and motorcycle covers).
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Thanks for the info mtb2223 and foamman1. So your advice would be to go ahead and place my order and wait on the 057 as opposed to keep checking their inventory? I'll be ordering for myself and my homeboy.
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Squishee
I wish i were seasoned enough to give you the advice you seek. Maybe some of the veterans can better help you with this. That being said i just place and order with Hong Fu. I have had good communicating with Cherry for the last few days. I rolled the dice and hopefully i will not be sorry. I will say this if you are set on the iplay frame and can wait then i would wait. For me hong fu frames from what i have read seems to be ok. That coupled with the fact that i want to be ridding in the second week of January, it was an easy choice.
In the area that i live we have a couple of bike shops. I have only been in either one a few times over the last 10 years. I have always got the impression that they were only interested in selling you a $1500+ trek or giant ect., neither one have a decent selection of what i call consumables Handgrips, saddles, even tires let along service a bike. So don't know lot of cyclers. I think i have only seen one chiner at the local ridding spot. Zero chance i could catch up to question him about his frame. It looked like a 036 though.
I do feel you about waiting or not , until 20 minutes ago i was in the same boat for the last month.
L.T.
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Obviously demand is out stripping supply. Over the past 1-1/2 years since I built my IP-057 the number of people interested in a Chiner has increased greatly. Websites like Chinertown are helping people take a chance on building a new bike with a Chinese frame.
My advice would be to place your order now, I doubt the Chinese mfr is going to catch up anytime soon. Not to mention, if you wait much longer to place an order you will be running into the Chinese New Year where everyone is in China is on vacation for 1-2 weeks.
I'd say work with Peter to select all your options, frame model, carbon weave, bottom bracket, and paint finish. Then at least you have your order placed. Over the next month or so you have all the US holidays, so I know I won't be riding as much. Now seems like a good time to place an order for items that have a long lead time.
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Squishee
I received an email from peter that frames may be available in as soon as 5 days. A day late for me, but it might be worth double checking with peter/bert.
L.T.
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I received a similar note today, indicating my IP-057 would ship some time next week... We shall see.
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I got one today as well. I'm asked Bert for a firm quote with shipping and any other fees but no reply. I did, however, ask for a quote through Hong-Fu and immediately received a quote. I'm sure the question I'm about to ask has been asked a million times here, but........is Hong Fu a dependable Chindor with a reliable, first rate product (aka good craftsmanship)? If so, I will forgo Iplay.
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Ok so i have the frame on the way Fm-057. I have the reba front fork. I have wheels and hubs(stands arch ex and BHS 54 POE hubs) which i am working on building. I am waiting for some sales on the small stuff like saddle, stems, bars, petals and such.
I had intentions for the drive train to be a 2 x 10 xt group with slx brakes as i understand these are just as good, but i have be eying a race face 1 x 10 set up. I don't see much info on these crank setups. Are they good, Light? None of the vendors list weight for the race face setup with BB. With out the RD and gear shifter I could spend a few more dollars on the crank. A 1 x 10 setup would be nice, but should pass on the 1 x 10 and go for the tried and true shimano 2 x 10 xt?
Too many choices!
L.T.
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Foamman1,
I have a 1X10 on my air 9 alloy. I previously had an xtr-980 3x10 setup. I could only use the middle and outer rings (32/42) due to my derailleur rubbing my tire in granny gear. I never could use my granny gear so I essentially had a 2x. I decided to try a race face narrow wide ring on my crank and remove the shifters /derailleur. The best I can recollect I lost about 1.2 lbs by removing the shifter and derailleur and a few more ounces removing the chain rings and racing them with a race face narrow wide 34t. I don't miss the other gears at all. IMO, do a 2x crank if your budget allows an attach a narrow wide in 1x. If you don't like the 1x you can always go 2x.
The terrain I live in is mountainous (Appalachians) and the 34t crank x 36 cassette serves me well. Large, steep climbs are a suffer fest but do-able. So any long endurance a races with lots of ascent (6500ft+)would definitely be a 32t. If you have an area with a lot of flats where you could wind up a 36t would be good for top end.
As far as the race question I have not raced with my 1x yet. However, in a timed run at a local trail; my trail my times were coonsistantly better by a few seconds ......and that was full on hard as I could go race pace. My climbing has become much better due to the change from a 32( in previously mentioned 3x) to a 34. Oh, another great thing less brainwork. All you have to do is keep that rear derailleur going.
Last but not least - BHS sells great products. I built my first set of wheels with their latest hub. Quality stuff and easy to maintain.
Check out chain reaction cycles they have 1x drive trains at pretty incredible prices. If you don't care to wait 20 days to shipping from Britain.
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Last but not least - BHS sells great products.
Total agreement here. They were great when I first found them and they just keep getting better. Highly, highly endorse them.
For anyone who doesn't know what "BHS" refers to - http://www.bikehubstore.com/Default.asp (http://www.bikehubstore.com/Default.asp)
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Ive been watching merlins and ribble for hot deals on shimano i would like to pull the trigger on these items, but im not sure if these are the front an rear derailurs i need. Ribble list the RD with direct mount and one with hanger. Which one is the right one.
Also the gear shifters say they can be used for 2 x or 3 x . Other vendors you have to chose one or the other. The prices cant be beat but if i cant use some parts they or worthless at any price. Please advise.
L.T.
Shimano 10Spd HG95 XT HGX Chain
US$21.16 US$21.16 US$21.16
Shimano SLX M675 Brake Levers and Post Mount Calipers (set)
US$115.48 US$115.48 US$115.48
Shimano 10 Spd XT M771 Cassette 11-34
US$43.62 US$43.62 US$43.62
Shimano XT M785 10 Spd Double Cset Inc BB 175 26/38
US$138.58 US$138.58 US$138.58
Shimano XT M781 10 Spd Triple Front Gear Conventional DP
US$24.37 US$24.37 US$24.37
Shimano XT M780 10 Spd Rapidfire Pods (pair) Black
US$69.28 US$69.28 US$69.28
Shimano XT M786 10 Spd Shadow + Rear Gear Bk SGS
US$51.32 US$51.32 US$51.32
Shimano RT66 (SLX/Deore) 6 Bolt Disc Brake Rotor 160mm
US$17.65 US$35.30 US$35.30
** Money Off Coupon 1 US$59.89 US$59.89 -US$59.89
Totals: US$499.11 US$59.89 US$439.22
Delivery Charge US$0.00
Grand Total US$439.22
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Shimano XT M786 10 Spd Shadow + Rear Gear Bk SGS
Just an opinion......if you're going to get a rear derailleur get the "plus" model with the clutch. It prevents the annoying chain slap in rough sections and its very quiet. As an added benefit, if you ever decide to go 1x10, the plus model derailleur will allow you to run a "narrow wide" chainring without a chainguide. No chainguide=less weight, less cost= real cool
Also, xtr front derailleur shifter pod I own has a 2x AND 3x settings. You choose which one by the turn of a screwdriver underneath the pod. I am not sure if this will apply to your shifter however.
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Hanger mount for rear derailleur.
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The M780 shifters are 2X-3X convertible as Squishee mentions. $500 for a mostly XT group is great.
Edit-also, the M786 is a clutch derailer. I still hear some chain slap with mine on very rough sections if I have the front in the low gear, but it is very minor. I have not run it with a 1X.
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Thanks again for the help. I missed the 12% off at Ribble. Merlin's Cycle and Ribble are still under the 500 mark for the listed components.Ill try to hold out till cyber monday to see if one of these guys will throw out another 10-20 off code. If not i'll just buy the at this price. It is still way better than US prices.
So hanger mount it is. What is the purpose of the direct mount. I know the bike has a hanger why not mount directly without the extra "hanger". I'm not trying to which is better war. I just would like to know the place for each.
Also the front derailieur will be top pull on the 057 with clamp mount. I assume it will be bottom swing or normal as some vendors call it.If memory serves i have seen a FD with clamp mount and Top swing also.
Thanks,
L.T.
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direct mount - means it connects directly to your brake...it removes some adjustability....pretty much you can slide it left and right.
It is liked because it cleans up the bar - no separate clamp for brake and shifter.
With Shimano, you can get into trouble because they have changed their direct mount style...so that needs to be looked out for.
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Well i hope i ordered what i need this is the front one http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/mtb-bmx-bike/derailleurs-front-mtb-shimano-xt-m786-10-speed-double-front-derailleur/shimgmfr140
and
this is the rear http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/mtb-bmx-bike/derailleurs-rear-mtb-shimano-xt-m786-10-speed-shadow-rear-derailleur/shimgmrr125
Please Advise. If not i will have these for sale cheap
I managed to get the stan's arch wheels and BHS hubs together I used Sapim race spokes. they look good. I have them true within less than 1/2 mm side to side and less than that the other way (well the weld joint may be a little more) Is this an acceptable amount for a mountain bike?
Now just waiting on the frame and other goodies. I'm hopping everything will be in the week before Christmas so i can assemble and ride. I am taking the week before Christmas Off from work. Yea!
L.T.
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Good job on the wheel building. The joints of my Stans Crest's gave me some false readings when I built my set. I think you'll like the BHS hubs. They're pretty shweet!
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Your front and rear der. look correct for what I thought I read that you had plans for.
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Thanks, for the reply on the derailers I have a million more questions, but just a few for now.
1. I ordered bsa BB. I see shimano recommends "truing the BB" . I could see why this could be an issue. How many of you building Chiner's have needed to do this? This would be a LBS job for me with the cost of the tool and a one time use isn't really worth it.
2. Would you recommend a spacer between the top of the head set and stem or on top of the stem or maybe both till I decide on the final stem length, bar combo? It seems like once you cut it there is no turning back, and i noticed while shopping for stems that most stems only had a few of the sizes available in stock any where you shopped. So if you wanted stem x it came in 100 + lengths and if you wanted say 50-70 mm you might could find one in brand z.
L.T.
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Don't know anything about question 1 - leave that for somebody else...though I have never heard of anybody doing that....that sounds like old stuff.
Question 2: don't remember your fork, but if it is carbon....most recommend a limit of 40mm and depending on your spacer size you may want to go above and below.
Othwise, do it either way and see how it fits ya....I personally like it 'slammed' but most bikes have 10-20mm below....above doesn't look right.
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The fork i have is a reba rl so its alloy. Already this frame has about 2" higher head tube height over the mongoose i ride now. I also ordered low rise bars and 6 deg x 70 mm stem. It wasn't my intention to raise it up too much, but i always felt like i was bent over too much on my current bike. As i mentioned early on in this thread I have several back/ spine issues. I know its not cool to have a tall stem and riser bars, but i would like to be able to ride more than an hour without the feeling of an ice pick between my shoulder blades. Ouch!
L.T.
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As far as the BB goes, I agree with brmeyer, that sounds like something you'd have to do on an old steel frame, same goes for the head tube. I've built 4 bikes now (3 carbon road bikes and this IP-256), and none needed anything done to "true" the BB shell.
As for your fork, I recently went through the same issue. I left room for 1 small 5mm spacer on top in case I needed to raise it. I have flat bars and my stem is at -6 now. Worse case, you can always flip your stem and get riser bars if you cut it short and need something taller.
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Also, just a reminder, might want to give yourself some extra length on all cables in case you do want to move things around.
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I will keep that in mind when doing the shift cables and rear brake. I think i remember full 180 slack on the cables and lines. Does this sound right?
An update I received items from Ribble. Ordered on the 12-1 and shipped on the 3rd(high volume cyber monday i was told)delivery would have been yesterday(nobody home) so i picked up at the post office this morning. If any one is on the fence about ribble I would say buy with confidence. Shipping was pretty fast and all items were new and in sealed plastic bags(OEM). Packing was ugly but very effective(cardboard wrapped and packing tape), box was in good shape. Prices cant be beat except by Merlin's on some items. No customs fees.
Merlin's package is still stuck in customs at Chicago airport. so hopefully will be here soon.They shipped the same day as Ribble.
The frame hum. I paid on 11-20 I got a email a few minutes later confirming they received payment and would ship out the next day. On 11 24 I emailed stating that i did not receive a shipping conformation or tracking number. I didn't get a response. On 12-3 i sent the email again and got a prompt response about sorry for the delay items were sipped on the 1st yada yada. So the latest update is frame has cleared China customs and is at the airline for transport. That was 2 days ago. So Hopefully it will be here by the weekend or next week at the latest.
Does anyone know of a good web page or a complete guide to assembly of a bike. I am looking for things like where to lube, where to lock-tite and where tho use carbon paste. There is a tremendous amount of conflicting information about these items on mtb forums. I am pretty handy with tools as do most of the service work on everything i own mowers, four wheeler, cars, boat and airplane(yep airplane, you just thought MTbiking was expensive)
Thanks
L.T.
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Just for you to know, it is possible to build and ride with immense pleasure a bike without loctite and without carbon grease.
Some marine or waterproof grease on all moving parts, but the spindle.
And some regular lube on the chain.
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This page from Park may be helpful: http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help
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Merlin's package is still stuck in customs at Chicago airport. so hopefully will be here soon.They shipped the same day as Ribble.
Don't be surprised if you get stuck with duties once it gets to the post office. My understanding is that Customs takes a percentage of packages and checks them out. I got hit with $25 of duty on my frame, after it got stuck in customs for a week. My ribble delivery did not get stuck, nor did my wheel shipment from XMIPlay, and neither had duties added...
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I was worried about the duty on the imported items too. The Ribble package was 280 or so dollars, zoomed right through and no fees. the Melrin's one is still saying processed through ISC (customs), but the value on it is less than 200 which is the threshold for duties as i understand. and the frame was released to the airline in china three days ago and if i had to guess is state side and in customs now. Its stated value is 150 dollars as per the vendor. So we will see. I'll let everyone know how the fees work out.
L.T.
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Frame made it to Customs this morning.Yea! Not toooo bad only 33 days from payment to get to the us. Now i hope it doesn't get stuck in customs.
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Well The frame arrived Monday. The box was in good condition and the frame was undamaged. I began assembly Tuesday morning, working when i had time. It went together easy. I think the hardest part was fitting the fork. I did have to bleed the brakes as i spilled a few drops while running the rear line through the frame. I did not have a bleed kit on hand and had to drive 60 miles to get one as the two shops in town didn't have one. Made the maiden voyage this morning. Trails were wet so i only rode about an hour, but all seems to work well.
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Looking good!!! Like the stealth look. Duh, got the same look on mine.
Wondering, why are you riding 160-160 rotors? Here in the Netherlands, it's common to ride 180mm rotors on the front and 160mm on the back. It gives so much (overall) brake power.
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Looking good!!! Like the stealth look. Duh, got the same look on mine.
Wondering, why are you riding 160-160 rotors? Here in the Netherlands, it's common to ride 180mm rotors on the front and 160mm on the back. It gives so much (overall) brake power.
Agree, typically 180/160 is a popular combination. Although, I do know some people who don't want that much braking ability on the front wheel for fear of going over the bars.
As for the bleed kit, they are not commonly stocked at most local bike shops. For those getting ready to do their own build, I would highly recommend going ahead and ordering the bleed kit for the brand of brakes you are about to install. If you are lucky and don't need the bleed kit on your initial build, you will need the kit later for routine maintenance.
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Yea the 160 rotor thing was an oversight on my part I chose the 160 twice in shopping cart by mistake. I didn't know til i opened the box. I figured since the biggest hill within a 100 mile drive is only about 200 ft elevation i would ride them till i ordered something, and i would add it to the order. These are light years better than the rim brakes that i had on the tank. After riding a little more i will lower the stem some too i have 25MM spacers now. I figured its easier to cut it down than add. I cheaped out on the tires because of the favorable reviews at price point. (vee rubber flying V) These are turds on the wet roots. They might be ok on the dry as they were advertised for, we will see. Can any one recommend some hard pack with roots tires that don't weigh a ton, will mount on Stan's arch ex wheels without selling your soul to the devil. I was looking at the racing ralph's, but i am open to suggestions.
L.T.
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So far my favorite tires I can recommend are the Geax Suguaro TNT (foldable). Many also like Maxxis tires (Ardent, Ignitor, or Ikon).
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The brakes are so good these days, most people's riding doesn't need more than 160 up front.
I suspect more people use their back brake anyways...like when one is going downhill it seems most tend to use back brakes even though one should be back over the rear tire and applying both front and back.
I run 160's front and back...at this time the front is plenty and actually, I don't want to be able to stop on a dime with the front cause I can stop on quarter with my 160. 180 would just make it easier to go over the front bar.
Ride the 160 and see if you actually need more up front.
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I'll second CD's recommendation for the Geax Suguaro TNT tires. I've been riding mine for about 6 months now and they function well in most every trail condition I've encountered. A great "jack of all trades" kinda tire. They even ride well on pavement. The only real downsides I can think of is they aren't great in thick mud or really wet/slick rock. Also, they're a tad heavier than I'd like them to be (prob not enough to matter) but that just contributes to their durability, I'm sure.
Also, they are way cheaper than the Maxxis tires, which I was wanting to get initially.
And I doubt you ever feel the need to upgrade that rotor from 160 to 180.
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Agree, typically 180/160 is a popular combination. Although, I do know some people who don't want that much braking ability on the front wheel for fear of going over the bars.
Really, these people need a training in the basics of a mountainbike.
When using only your front brake, it takes 1/3 of the braking distance compared to only using the rear brake. For those that don't believe this, try it at home. Go to a green grass field, put a pion/pilon on the field. Ride/race towards the pion, use only your front brake (blocking wheel isn't bad). then again, with the same speed, ride to the pion, use now only your rear break. Now you'll see the difference. Now you can imagine what it will do with you braking distance when using both brakes.
One remark, when using your front brake, put have to put your ass after your saddle (basic technique) otherwise you will make a faceplant :) .
It's so much easier/nicer to ride when you possess ( <-- correct word?) the basic techniques (climbing, braking, surplace, taking drops, etc)
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Like most people these days, I also ride with 180r/160rr disc brakes. I like the larger front rotor mostly to reduce braking effort. On long rides it's nice to not work my left hand as much, less fatigue is always good. I also know a few people who ride with a 203mm front disk, for the same reason, the like using less effort throughout their ride. Of course a 160mm rotor up front is adequate, but the larger rotors are nice.
Another example of larger front rotors is my motorcycle, not only are the rotors larger up front, the motorcycle has dual disc brakes up front, single in the rear. This is because it's well known that 75%-80% of your braking force comes from the front wheel as weight transfers forward under hard braking.
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I planned two 160mm rotors initially.
But there is no compatible adaptor between Hope brakes and a Lefty fork.
Hope told me to switch to a 183mm rotor(or larger).
I just changed my brake pads this weekend, the rear pads were almost worn out, while the front pads had still some mm left.
Strangely, I was convinced to brake more with the front than the rear(from my motorcycle past).
Or may be the 180mm make the front brake more efficient, saving some pads wear.
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Thanks for all the input. As far as the tires I looked at the Geax Suguaro tires and thought these would be great, but then started looking at the weight. Wow these are heavy compared to icons or RR. Granted I have zero practical experience with any of these so maybe the weight wouldn't be noticeable. I also noticed a lot of the vendors (art's, pricepoint and may be more)no longer carry many of the Geau tires. Not sure why. I know that RR get a lot of good reviews. Are they really all that?
As far as the brakes I would have to agree with all comments. 180 up front no doubt would be more effective breaking. The faster and or stepper the grade the more braking required. That being said with my skill/fitness level and terrain that I ride, the 160 is likely sufficient. I will change the front one, but i will ride them as they are in the mean time.
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Like most people these days, I also ride with 180r/160rr disc brakes.
I would NEVER run 180/160 on my bike. (because I run avid disks so it's 185/160) ;D
For a while I stepped it up to 203/185 just because I could but honestly didn't think it was all that much better so I went back to the 185/160. Paired with the BB7 brakes, it's shockingly good. My original Avid Elixirs (I think) were great until I couldn't get them to bleed well anymore. I found out this seems like a common thing on the Avids. Had some BB7s sitting around so used them as a temporary thing but I love their feel and performance so much I seem to have forgotten to buy replacements.
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Haven't used the BB7s but would think they would be great in modulation/control/feel - as it is a direct pull.
We lose touch/feel with hydraulics but learn to mostly overcome the multiplicativ power generation.
I look at it as, BB7s have less chance to throw you over the bars in an emergency situation since the power generated is not multiplied
and therefore more controllable by us.
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I'm never going to give up my XT M785 brakes. I have used Avid Elixir, Avid Juicy and BB5's. Those Avid brakes weren't bad but my XT brakes are phenomenal in comparison. The BB5's were the lowest maintenance, and yes they had a very linear pull but on long, hard rides they would get tiring. I would expect BB7 brakes to be even stronger, so I'm sure less effort than my old BB5 brakes. However, the XT brakes work so well that they are now my favorite. I even got to ride a Scott Scale with the latest Avid Trail brakes last year, they were good but not quite as good as the Shimano brakes.
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Haven't used the BB7s but would think they would be great in modulation/control/feel - as it is a direct pull.
I forgot how great the BB7s work. Everything about them works great.
I look at it as, BB7s have less chance to throw you over the bars in an emergency situation since the power generated is not multiplied
and therefore more controllable by us.
I meant to mention this - if you have a brake that throws you over the bars, you don't know how to use your brakes, plain and simple. There are no two ways about this. I remember when I was younger and riding cheap bikes on steel rims and the brakes couldn't stop a free-falling feather, but somehow folks could still manage to flip over the bars because they had no idea how to use the brakes. So, any brake has the "power to throw you over the bars" if you let them.
I don't care if you've got 200mm rotors with multi-piston downhill brakes or weak single-pivot road brakes - if you can't do an emergency stop without fear of flipping - stop right now and go learn. You need to know how to panic stop before you're in a panic situation. You need to know how to get your weight back. You need to know how to apply the front brake firmly but not with a sudden jerk. You need to know how to modulate the brakes so you can adjust as necessary without having to think about it.
I've been in plenty of emergency stop situations, and there have even been times when I've lifted the rear tire. I've never flipped over the bars (well, not from braking alone ;) ) because I've taken the time to learn how to stop.
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Emergency is emergency...not time to think, shift back...yes, experienced riders will auto shift but, there are plenty of stories of over the bars because of emergency stops. I am sure plenty of folks here have their own OTB stories.
Talking about this has me thinking, if you are right handed, you should probably be riding moto style...front braking in an emergency needs the most control(modulate) to keep the back tire down.
We probably have the right hand as the rear with the thinking of a more powerful stop.
Back to the build, have you ever mentioned your design for your bike? to race, all around, general XC and the conditions you have in your area.
I thought SB8 or Ikons...those type treads were for all-around. Obviously, each tire dealer has a chart for tire suggested usage.
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Emergency is emergency...not time to think, shift back...yes, experienced riders will auto shift but, there are plenty of stories of over the bars because of emergency stops. I am sure plenty of folks here have their own OTB stories.
Not time to think - exactly. It needs to be automatic, which means you've practiced it enough. Experienced riders will shift back and modulate the brakes automatically, and wouldn't you much rather do that than compromise your brakes so that you don't hurt yourself with a lack of experience?
Sorry, won't hijack the thread with my preaching anymore. ;D