Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: neobiker on August 08, 2023, 03:02:03 AM
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What do you guys think of this?
Did they get the mold? Or is it not the real website?
https://airwolfcarbonbike.com/product/2023-new-arrival-slr-gen7-carbon-disc-bike-frame-50-52-54-56-58cm-t47-carbon-road-bike-frame-road-carbon-bike-frame-with-handlebar/
I just bought the TT-x38, but if this is an official product from Airwolf, I am tempted haha.
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I did see it on their website. Considering that there have been replica frames on Aliexpress for a while now, it's entirely possible that they either bought the mold or are just reselling the same frameset
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I would say that's a little more than just "inspired" and there is no way they will be allowed to sell this... It's more than a blatant copy that definitely violates IP laws of a brand I wouldn't want to legally fight
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Well, they even copy/pasted the complete geometry section from the Trek website 1:1 ::)
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I would say that's a little more than just "inspired" and there is no way they will be allowed to sell this... It's more than a blatant copy that definitely violates IP laws of a brand I wouldn't want to legally fight
My issue is the following: I usually thought official website from OEM would not sell counterfeit [at least there is no brand on the pictures].
This is why I am thinking it might not be the official website?
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They don't advertise the frame with Trek logo, so it is no different from Velobuild/TanTan, etc.
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But this is still blatantly the same bike with all the IP violations. Pretending to not be affiliated with Trek is not enough
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I wrote with the company regarding this frame. He claims it is the Trek Madone:
Me: "Hello.
The 2023 New Arrival SLR Gen7 Carbon Disc Bike Frame looks like the Trek Madone - Does it perfom and wheigh the same?"
Airwolf: "It is the Trek Madone,if perform the same, and the weight is a little heavy"
Me: "What do you mean “it is the Trek Madone?”
Is it made from the same carbon etc?
Airwolf: "Hello Dear,yes,it is made from the same carbon and same factory.Just that we can't put the logo"
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This podcast with Joe from China Cycling pretty much details what goes on at the carbon factories in China. It could very well be the same official mold they used to build the Madone.
https://youtu.be/ZvJM0HgjSm0 (https://youtu.be/ZvJM0HgjSm0)
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As a buddy told me:
"Why would they risk a huge contract (from Trek) for knocking out a few frames with $200 profit per frame?"
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As a buddy told me:
"Why would they risk a huge contract (from Trek) for knocking out a few frames with $200 profit per frame?"
Fully agree - there's a pretty simple commercial incentive here for legitimate factories to avoid there being additional frames coming out of genuine moulds. If you were the big bike brand on the other end (like a Trek) you would expect that any contract is very strict about termination/penalties for IP infringement, and if you're the factory, you sure as hell won't want to lose a massive contract to sell a few frames for (relatively) tiny profit.
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Trek is one of the last brands that still makes frames that dont look like other bikes.
However, it doesnt mean they're better.
In fact, they probably aren't. There are Trek fans out there, but most people just moved on.
My point: this is a really weird design (seat post). Trek is asking for trouble. And buying a copy is asking for extra trouble. Think about the forces on the seat post area. heavy rider on potholes. The insane lever effect the carbon has to endure. Why take the risk? Also, there's no way this will ever look like anything but a Trek, but it won't be a Trek.
The factory is probably adding a bunch of material in the unusual areas hoping the frame doesnt disintegrate. Trek fans praise ride quality. I think it's foolish to expect the same from this.
Also, that sales rep is almost certainly lying to you. The thing is, with China, it's often really hard to avoid miscommunication. They have little to no concept of IP. The mere way they think /speak / write is very different. I stopped counting how often i'd get different answers to the same question, depending on how i asked the question.
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Hi all.
I have heard many times from people in the know that Chinese communication is not about saying NO. They avoid the word NO in every possible way! It is easier for them to say YES or evasively go into uncertainty.
On the other side. I do not understand obstinacy in everything in a kind of intellectual property. Sometimes it comes to the point of absurdity. I am not against intellectual property, but there is a limit to everything. After all, you can shift a millimeter or half a millimeter in size, you can lay the fabric a little differently by a fraction of a millimeter or a degree.
Personally, I am not a supporter of total patents or intellectual property!
Best regards
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The more hate this bike receives, the more I seem to like it! It's kind of ugly and the seat post tube is just down right controversial. Maybe when the sales of this frame are non-existent and they sell it on clearance, I'll pick one up!
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Factor and Trek are the only 2 bikes you can order the higher end version which even ships in the same boxes as the original.
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I am currently considering buying one of these bikes. So far I'm more inclined towards Trek Madone. I'm not a super cyclist and I want a bit of charisma on the bike.
Service with a box from Airwolf?
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So it’s been a while since I’ve posted and I just popped back to see what everyone has been saying about the Airwolf YFR066…. BUT THEN I SAW THE SLR!
I want to do it. I was just gonna do the 066 as a random frame until I can finish a BMC teammachine I turned into a long term art project. (Bought the frame for $1300 but that was the easy part…)
Now, though, I have a calling bahahaha. I’m a jaded ex bike mechanic. I want to get it just out of spite for the years of trauma the industry has caused me.
I’ll chime back in if I get it. I think the SLR blows out the 066 budget.
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OH MY GOOD GOD. They just informed me the frame weight is 1300g in a 52 cm, 1350 in a 58 cm.
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OH MY GOOD GOD. They just informed me the frame weight is 1300g in a 52 cm, 1350 in a 58 cm.
Can it be reinforcements around the seatpost/seattube area? If yes, the weight might be a good sign.
But yeah, if you want a light frame maybe choose something else :D
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did somebody go with SLR from airflow, at the end?
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I don't think this has the Trek butthole as on the SLR.
Good lord these frames are hideous ;D
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did somebody go with SLR from airflow, at the end?
Hi - i'm currently in the process of building an Airwolf SLR. Ordered in late November from their website and received around 6 weeks later in Germany (framesize 54/M, matte black)
Here are my impressions and issues so far:
- the paint job is quite good as far as i can judge, the matte is naturally a bit sensitive
- upper bore hole for the front brake caliper mount is around 2mm off -> had to file the caliper to make it fit
- lower headset bearing sits quite loose on the fork carbon crown but fits good into the frame (outer bearing diameter okay) -> have to measure the diameter of the fork and the bearing inner diameter. I fear the fork diameter is a bit off (or they send me an incorrect lower headset bearing)
- internal routing of the hydraulic cables through the handlebar is not the easiest job but managed to finish it with the help of an internal cable routing tool and sticking an older bowden cable to the hydraulic cable and pulled it through the bar.
- bottom bracket bearing (T47) fits pretty good
- saddle clamp and the area around the "iso flow hole" seem to be fine so far also
I'm installing a Shimano 105 12speed groupset and haven't decided which wheelset to put on yet. Overall it will probably not be the lightest build. Will upload some pics later on.
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took me a while to get through all the hassles building this bike but here it is ready to ride now:
- issue with upper headset play solved by mounting an additional c-ring as a spacer above the compression ring
- lower headset bearing needed some alu tape wrapped around the inside (fork diameter was too small for lower headset bearing, but the bearing has the dimensions as the "original")
- front brake caliper needed to be filed as the upper bore hole in the fork was about 2mm off
- the delivered seatpost mount cracked at about 3-4NM torque while mounting the saddle tilt screw (see photo). As i think this is a general construction issue and i don't trust the replica here, i bought a slightly used original one
- no feedback coming back from airwolf, only that they will check with their quality control...
Overall the bike fits and rides quite good. Coming from an aero bike of the first generations i subjectively would say that this one feels a bit stiffer and more aerodynamic. However i guess that a big factor for this is coming from the wheels.
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Thanks for sharing. So, yet another anecdotal evidence against buying airwolf frames.
I'm extremely happy with my cockpits from them though.
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I just finished building my second slr from Airwolf (one for myself and one for a friend). Some experiences to share:
Ordering the frame went quite smoothly, as well communications with Airwolf during the whole process: easy to get in touch with them and they're willing to help.
Their statement that this is the original is obviously not true. Some small issues, especially with the small parts that come with the frame, indicate this is a copy. A good one though, as far as I can judge without testing it to and over its limits. Fair paint job, though it seems a bit easy to damage. We'll see.
Please note that though the website states the frame is also suitable for mechanical shifting, it is not. Just like the original gen 7 Madone, it is only suitable for Di2 (or any other electronic shifting). The internal routing of a rear shifting cable has to go through too many sharp bends to let it shift smoothly. I spent a lot of time and trying several things to get it shifting without any issues, but in the end decided to strip the mechanical groupset and replace it by Di2. Learning the hard way... The second build-up was an easy job after that.
Routing the brakehoses through the handlebar is really a pain. It took me quite some time and the help of an extra hand to get them through. I guess that'd be the same with an original; it's caused by the design.
The parts that come with the seatpost are a bit sloppy. The wedge used to fixate it in the frame is way to smooth and therefore too slippery. Using carbon paste is explicitly discouraged. Ordering an original wedge (which has a roughed surface) solved it easily. The sadlle clamp was skewed and too wide (and heavy), and again using an original solved it.
The headset bearings seem to fit well, but there's still some minor play in the headsets of both bikes after putting the bike together. In the second build I replaced the splitring on top of the upper bearings with an original one, but that didn't resolve the issue. My conclusion is it has to do with the first spacer. Adding an extra C ring on top as suggested above might solve it, not yet tried.
The holes for mounting the front caliper were in the right place (both builds), but quite rough on the inside. The threading of the holes in the forks had to be cleaned out/threaded, otherwise the bolts needed far too much force to get them in.
The mount for the rear caliper on one of the frames is not exactly even, so when I tighten the bolts the caliper will not stand exactly upright. This makes it almost impossible to adjust the caliper enough to let the disc run freely. Probably some paint issue. Solved by putting some thick nail polish on the frame on one edge of the bolt hole.
Both bikes have been ridden for a few hundred km and it feels fast and sturdy. The handlebar is pretty flexible, which I didn't expect from a carbon one. But that may be me not being used to an aero bar.
All in all I am quite positive about the Airwolf frame. If you go for this frame I'd advice to buy some original parts with it at the trek webshop right away: seatpost wedge and saddle clamp (together about 30€). But if you're thinking about building a very nice bike yourself, I'd certainly consider this frame.
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Thanks for posting about your experience. can you add pics of the 2 bikes?
And which bars did you use? Mine feel extremely stiff.