Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Cyclocross Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: Ossip on January 21, 2024, 02:52:16 AM
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Hi Guys,
planning to build a new gravel bike, wich i also can use as beach racer with 2.35inch tyres
for now the only bike wich is cappable of that should be the 3T exploro Racemax.
do you guys know frames with such a huge tyreclearance?
Greetings Ossip
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Hi.
I recently built a frame that can install 29x2.4 tires. I couldn't find it in a carbon frame so I built it in titanium. Boost standard + BB shell width is 73mm.
I usually use it for forest road riding and plan to use it for beach racing!
For your information.
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Why not using a 29er + carbon fork with short reach and kinda-outdated geometry? (They usually come with 70-ish degree steerer, which may be suited for the task).
E.g. lexon reverse.
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It is possible, but I prefer a gravel bike for Geo and Aero.
but i will take a look in to Lexon
thanks
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The geometry of something like you want would be something really similar to what already exists in the 29er department. Chainstay will be longer like in a 29er and so. If anything, you could play a bit with reach (which in modern gravel frames is rapidly approaching that of a 2015-2020 29er), a bit lower stack (you can just run a slammed stem with maybe even more negative -17 deg angle to achieve that).
I don't know, that is what I would honestly do. You can just save yourself a lot of headaches. And particularly if running shimano you can just use PM mtb calipers and they should work just fine with the grx brifters.
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Hi Guys,
planning to build a new gravel bike, wich i also can use as beach racer with 2.35inch tyres
for now the only bike wich is cappable of that should be the 3T exploro Racemax.
do you guys know frames with such a huge tyreclearance?
Greetings Ossip
I've just finished building a beachracer for beachracing with a 29er. :)
- Frame: TanTan (Seraph) FM199 29ER*2.35Tire. Flared handlebar, seatpost and stem are also from TanTan.
- Control levers GRX ST-RX820 1x12s
- Flat mount brake calipersGRX RX820 (front Post Mount to Flat Mount adapter)
- Frontring 48t Narrow-wide (0 offset) with 10-45 (1x12speed) (https://www.themechanic-parts.com/)
- Rear derailleur GRX RX820 12s
- Crank XT 165mm
- Carbon rims: 40mm and 36mm (Elavo Carbon Ali) with Dt Swiss hubs and Sapim spokes (Spoke the carbon rims myself) 8)
- Tyres: 60mm Schwalbe G-One Speed Evolution 60-622 and VITTORIA Tattoo II 29x2.3
Total weight 9,2kg
For a picture see:
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,51.msg74462.html#msg74462 (https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,51.msg74462.html#msg74462)
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The 3T Exploro you mentioned clears all of 42mm.
Your question makes no sense. Gravel bikes are designed to keep Q factor (distance between pedals) relatively narrow to support long days of pedalling. This means bikes that max out at 50mm tire clearance.
Bikes with more clearance such as the Salsa Cutthroat aren't really gravel bikes. They use MTB crankset, bottom bracket, wheels, etc.
Go in the MTO forum and figure out a drop bar setup.
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I'm interested in building something like this as well. Lauf Seigla fits the bill!
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The 3T Exploro you mentioned clears all of 42mm.
Your question makes no sense. Gravel bikes are designed to keep Q factor (distance between pedals) relatively narrow to support long days of pedalling. This means bikes that max out at 50mm tire clearance.
Bikes with more clearance such as the Salsa Cutthroat aren't really gravel bikes. They use MTB crankset, bottom bracket, wheels, etc.
Go in the MTO forum and figure out a drop bar setup.
He obviously meant the 3T Extrema, but there are tons of other gravel bikes with >50mm clearance. Among the cheaper frames, Peak Torque managed to fit 2.35" Hans Dampf front and Racing Ralph rear on his Yoeleo G21.
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Flyxii FE-02 clears up to 700 x 52 or 27.5 x 2.1 That seems about the limit for most true gravel frames.
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The 3T Exploro you mentioned clears all of 42mm.
Your question makes no sense. Gravel bikes are designed to keep Q factor (distance between pedals) relatively narrow to support long days of pedalling. This means bikes that max out at 50mm tire clearance.
Bikes with more clearance such as the Salsa Cutthroat aren't really gravel bikes. They use MTB crankset, bottom bracket, wheels, etc.
Go in the MTO forum and figure out a drop bar setup.
Would you consider being polite?
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He obviously meant the 3T Extrema, but there are tons of other gravel bikes with >50mm clearance. Among the cheaper frames, Peak Torque managed to fit 2.35" Hans Dampf front and Racing Ralph rear on his Yoeleo G21.
The 3T Extrema uses Sram dub wide. More of a one-off frame. Maybe a similar frame could be made by Chinese manufacturers, but it's basically introducing a whole new bike category between gravel and mountain bike. Buying parts would be frustrating since "gravel crankset" and the thousands of results, don't fit.
The Yoeleo G21 only clears 53mm tires and has interference issues between chainrings and the frame, leading to buyer frustration. I did a quick search for Peak Torque, good channel, and when he tried to fit his crankset on and it didn't fit, he called the frame "dogshit". Yes he came around to liking it, after getting it to work.
Gravel bikes are based on road bikes, so 700c tires will max out around 50mm. There's a whole question whether we should all support more one-offs like Sram Dub Wide, to give us more preceisely what we want, or stick to established standards.
It's an interesting discussion because rather than Sram Dub Wide, mountain bikes are just a bit wider than gravel, so are a good component set, and actually cheaper than gravel parts. So what we want is mtb frames to adopt a more traditional triangle shape and rider position used by gravel bikes. Which is what the Salsa Cutthroat does, and a lot of steel touring bikes too.
While that is nice, for most gravel bikes, manufacturers have been keeping gravel bikes frames oriented to gravel bike parts, on the basis that they both fall under 'road' category. Paved road and gravel road. But also, sticking to road standards is sneaky as parts cost more and make more profit. For example, the invention of GRX. Or how gravel bikes don't use post mount brakes, when they worked fine. But requiring new 'gravel and road' flat mount, allows Shimano and others to use the exact same parts but charge more money, for a smaller niche market. More profit, for awhile, until the Aliexpress companies catch up and make parts that are just as good for less money.
That said, I could have been more polite, true @serge_K. Sorry. If you want to run wide tires, get one of these frames that clear 50mm, and fit a set of 650b wheels. Then pay attention to tire size and research some wider tires in the 2.2-2.4" range that are a bit taller than wide, and you're good to go. The bikes look awesome configured this way too.
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The 3T Extrema uses Sram dub wide. More of a one-off frame. Maybe a similar frame could be made by Chinese manufacturers, but it's basically introducing a whole new bike category between gravel and mountain bike. Buying parts would be frustrating since "gravel crankset" and the thousands of results, don't fit.
The Yoeleo G21 only clears 53mm tires and has interference issues between chainrings and the frame, leading to buyer frustration. I did a quick search for Peak Torque, good channel, and when he tried to fit his crankset on and it didn't fit, he called the frame "dogshit". Yes he came around to liking it, after getting it to work.
Gravel bikes are based on road bikes, so 700c tires will max out around 50mm. There's a whole question whether we should all support more one-offs like Sram Dub Wide, to give us more preceisely what we want, or stick to established standards.
It's an interesting discussion because rather than Sram Dub Wide, mountain bikes are just a bit wider than gravel, so are a good component set, and actually cheaper than gravel parts. So what we want is mtb frames to adopt a more traditional triangle shape and rider position used by gravel bikes. Which is what the Salsa Cutthroat does, and a lot of steel touring bikes too.
While that is nice, for most gravel bikes, manufacturers have been keeping gravel bikes frames oriented to gravel bike parts, on the basis that they both fall under 'road' category. Paved road and gravel road. But also, sticking to road standards is sneaky as parts cost more and make more profit. For example, the invention of GRX. Or how gravel bikes don't use post mount brakes, when they worked fine. But requiring new 'gravel and road' flat mount, allows Shimano and others to use the exact same parts but charge more money, for a smaller niche market. More profit, for awhile, until the Aliexpress companies catch up and make parts that are just as good for less money.
That said, I could have been more polite, true @serge_K. Sorry. If you want to run wide tires, get one of these frames that clear 50mm, and fit a set of 650b wheels. Then pay attention to tire size and research some wider tires in the 2.2-2.4" range that are a bit taller than wide, and you're good to go. The bikes look awesome configured this way too.
So would it make more sense to get a MTB frame, install drop bars and a rigid fork?
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So would it make more sense to get a MTB frame, install drop bars and a rigid fork?
This is starting to show up at some events, and could be a lot of fun to build and ride. But, comes with tradeoffs. They're not as aerodynamic as gravel bikes, both bike and rider position, so you will lose a lot of energy trying to hold a speed of 30 or 35km/h. But option of front or full suspension and truly wide tires 2.4" - could be huge fun too for singletrack or rough roads.
I think here in the gravel forum the best approach would be to pick a 50mm clearance frame from the list, and install 650b wheels per above. These bikes look aweseome too.
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So would it make more sense to get a MTB frame, install drop bars and a rigid fork?
I believe the geometry complicates this solution. A combination of less than ideal ST and HT angles, reach, boost rear axle, and Q-factor, maybe some other features as well. The few I've seen were geared towards bike packing, which could work, but anyone trying to make a modern MTB tire gravel bike seemed to be dissuaded. Modern hardtails and the most modern, cutting edge gravel frames are areas that Chinese manufacturers have not moved to, and honestly are pretty niche markets even in the West.
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This is starting to show up at some events, and could be a lot of fun to build and ride. But, comes with tradeoffs. They're not as aerodynamic as gravel bikes, both bike and rider position, so you will lose a lot of energy trying to hold a speed of 30 or 35km/h. But option of front or full suspension and truly wide tires 2.4" - could be huge fun too for singletrack or rough roads.
I think here in the gravel forum the best approach would be to pick a 50mm clearance frame from the list, and install 650b wheels per above. These bikes look aweseome too.
650b is not the answer. They have their place but it is not the same category of bike for someone trying to hop on board with the current trend at the pointy end of racing.
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This is starting to show up at some events, and could be a lot of fun to build and ride. But, comes with tradeoffs. They're not as aerodynamic as gravel bikes, both bike and rider position, so you will lose a lot of energy trying to hold a speed of 30 or 35km/h. But option of front or full suspension and truly wide tires 2.4" - could be huge fun too for singletrack or rough roads.
I think here in the gravel forum the best approach would be to pick a 50mm clearance frame from the list, and install 650b wheels per above. These bikes look aweseome too.
MTB frames are also limited in chainring sizes. 38t max for many frames. Less for others.
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650b is not the answer. They have their place but it is not the same category of bike for someone trying to hop on board with the current trend at the pointy end of racing.
Sure it is. He didn't say he was racing, just that he wants big tires. My answer is you're not going to get 700c 60+mm tires on what meets most current definitions of a gravel bike, and especially not here on the forum where we discuss general use framesets available online direct. In fact those tires aren't even on sale at all as 700c x 60, they're instead sold as MTB 29er, for a reason.
If you want to buy a 'gravel bike' and fit 2.1 or 2.2" or so, your best bet is 650b / 27.5.
https://www.bikeradar.com/advice/buyers-guides/650b-vs-700c-for-gravel
The rolling diameter is similar so it's not that big of a deal.
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Already made a post about my bike in the MTB-forum, but it's relevant here aswell.
Just like user "Deem" on the first page, I went the MTB-frame with drop bars route. Inspired by the beachracing scene here in The Netherlands and Belgium. But the bikes makes a great and fun gravel bike aswell ! Like others have said, it does require a mix and match of different standards to get the required results.
I went with the Airwolf YFM026, which has a stated max chainring of 40t. But I fitted a 42 already without issue, 44 might be possible aswell if you start playing with the offset. Then I got some Nextie rims that were built with MTB-boost hubs.
In summer I use 2.35" Thunder Burts and it makes for a super fast and fun gravel bike!
There is one brand that started dabbling into a gravel frame with 60+ mm clearance. It's a super small Dutch brand, but they bought their previous frames from Chinese manufacturers. I would love to know which manufacturer so we could buy it direct from them.
https://stormsports.nl/products/storm-makai-beachbike-gravelbike (https://stormsports.nl/products/storm-makai-beachbike-gravelbike)
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There is one brand that started dabbling into a gravel frame with 60+ mm clearance. But it's a super small Dutch brand, but they buy their frames from some Chinese manufacturer. I would love to know which manufacturer so we could buy it direct from them.
https://stormsports.nl/products/storm-makai-beachbike-gravelbike (https://stormsports.nl/products/storm-makai-beachbike-gravelbike)
That thing looks awesome and really well thought out. Massive tire clearance, regular chainline and 48T chainring clearance and nice geo including massive front center even in the smallest size. Also nice aero shaping yet with a regular seatpost.
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I believe the geometry complicates this solution. A combination of less than ideal ST and HT angles, reach, boost rear axle, and Q-factor, maybe some other features as well. The few I've seen were geared towards bike packing, which could work, but anyone trying to make a modern MTB tire gravel bike seemed to be dissuaded. Modern hardtails and the most modern, cutting edge gravel frames are areas that Chinese manufacturers have not moved to, and honestly are pretty niche markets even in the West.
Do you mind explaining what you mean by ST and HT angles and boost rear axle i'm new to a lot of this. I understand the concept of having adequate stack/reach in the context of a bike fit (being comfortable on the bike), but I don't understand how other aspects of geometry impact ride quality or experience.
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Slack HT / ST angles generally means you're sitting back and more upright. More comfortable and stable but not as manoeverable, maybe not as fast. Downhill mountain bikes take it to the extreme.
Boost rear axle - basically a different frame standard with wider bottom bracket shell and wider pedal spacing to allow wider tires. If you get a boost frame, you need a boost crankset, as a road / gravel crankset will be too narrow. Boost is fairly common though in the mountain bike world so finding parts shouldn't be hard.
@Aradell that is a NICE looking bike! Enjoy!
So the spectrum is now:
Time trial - aero road - generall road / climbing - all-road / endurance (light gravel) - gravel - suspension gravel - gravel 650b - drop bar mtb - cross country MTB - trail mtb - all-mountain MTB - enduro MTB - fat bike, and so on
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Do you mind explaining what you mean by ST and HT angles and boost rear axle i'm new to a lot of this. I understand the concept of having adequate stack/reach in the context of a bike fit (being comfortable on the bike), but I don't understand how other aspects of geometry impact ride quality or experience.
Most of the Chinese hardtail frames that I'm aware of are based on older MTB trends. This means they have a slacker seat tube (ST) angle and steeper head tube angle (HT), along with longer reach than drop bar (road, gravel) frames. Using this for a drop bar build would result in the rider sitting farther rearward over the rear tire, not great for climbing, having a worse angle of attack for rolling over obstacles, and likely require a short stem which could impact handling characteristics. All of this is hypothetical and you may not be bothered by any of it, but modern frames in all disciplines have moved in different directions. Quick general notes on more modern frames: modern hardtail (and full suspension) MTB - steeper ST, slacker HT, still long reach; road - steep ST, steep HT, reach varies but usually long from Chinese brands; gravel - steep ST, slacker than road HT, shorter reach than road.
The boost axle spec has been used on MTB for a while now. It has a 148mm rear hub and 110mm front hub. Road and gravel disc use 142mm rear hub and 100mm front hub. Depending on your choice of fork (likely a rigid MTB paired to the hardtail frame) you would need to use MTB wheels.
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Slack HT / ST angles generally means you're sitting back and more upright. More comfortable and stable but not as manoeverable, maybe not as fast. Downhill mountain bikes take it to the extreme.
Boost rear axle - basically a different frame standard with wider bottom bracket shell and wider pedal spacing to allow wider tires. If you get a boost frame, you need a boost crankset, as a road / gravel crankset will be too narrow. Boost is fairly common though in the mountain bike world so finding parts shouldn't be hard.
HT and ST change independently based on the frames intended use. HT angle does not change the riders position nearly as much as ST angle. Downhill takes slack HT to the extreme but not ST, modern MTB is slack HT and steep ST.
Boost rear axle standard states what the axle width for the wheel hub is and is independent of the bottom bracket. It was introduced to increase wheel stiffness and improve chainline for wider BBs but does not dictate the BB standard.
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Ah, right. Boost is MTB axle, not bottom bracket. I got it mixed up with Sram dub wide. Disregard that point or swap DUB wide for boost.
So if someone makes a boost gravel frame, better to use boost wheels, rather than standard road / gravel wheels and adapters. Right.