Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: Rei on March 08, 2024, 04:54:46 AM
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Hi guys,
I'm about to build my first chinese frame based build. I've had recently fantastic time on Meride Reacto 8000. I'm looking for a frame both geo and esthetics wise in line with its.
Image for reference: (https://bikko.lv/937040-large_default/velosipeds-merida-reacto-9000-e-2021-red.jpg)
Here are the frames that I've found to be somewhat in the same ballpark, and this is where I need your help guys.
1. Winspace T1550
2. ICAN A9
3. Yoeleo R12
4. TanTan TT-X38
What other frames am I missing, and maybe you can give a feedback on these four something?
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Velobuild VB-R 268
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https://www.speedercycling.com/Carbon-Integrated-Road-Disc-Frameset-SC-R49D-_p399.html
https://www.sp-cycle.com/spcycle-2024-new-aero-carbon-road-bike-frame-disc-brake-full-hidden-cable-700x32c-race-bicycle-carbon-frameset-p5517135.html
Also Workswell.
Most frame manufacturers have an aero frame in their range.
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Thank you ENEP. The Spcycle one looks reall inline with Reacto.
And particual brand of these mentioned that has higher quality, or ones that I should avoid at all cost?
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Avoid Ican.
I had a problem with it, see the thread:
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3027.30.html
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T1500/T1550 I can recommend, very happy after 10k km in a year with it. The build however, comes closer to the original Merida Reacto.
I would go the same route, if you like to choose your own components or have fun building bikes.
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Thank you Oleg! I watched your video and issues with the headset bearing seating. Really good to know about the ICAN, I guess it's always a bit of gamble with these brands, but that was totally out of spec in your case.
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I like the workswell wcb-r-306
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Lightcarbon LCR-0X is a copycat of the Merida.
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How about Bross Zenith
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Why not just buy a reacto? Not much in it price wise.
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Bross Zenith looks fantastic! But I can't seem to find it for sale anywhere :-(
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Why not just buy a reacto? Not much in it price wise.
Well the Reacto frameset alone is only available in team model and it's 3.5k. And I have parts already so I realistically need frameset only.
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Bross Zenith looks fantastic! But I can't seem to find it for sale anywhere :-(
There is a shop in Hong Kong that might be able to them.
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I own, ride and race the Ican A9.
Very satisfied with the frameset. When I build it up, I was impressed by the manufacturing quality and finish of the frame. It's very stiff and 100% suits the purpose of an aero frame. Though I'm not going to make aerodynamic claims, it feels and rides fast when I'm riding solo. Quick in accelerations and easily maintains its speed.
Oleg might have had issues, but when I look around, each brand has several cases of products that should not have passed their quality control.
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My long teng 268 looks quite similar. I've only done 1100km on it, but I love it so far. Building it was a breeze. Alisa was super friendly to deal with, and answered the million questions I had. 7.6kg in medium with aero and comfort everything.
And ofc, it doesn't hurt that it's cheap :)
I bought the bars separately because I wanted 36cm bars.
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My long teng 268 looks quite similar. I've only done 1100km on it, but I love it so far. Building it was a breeze. Alisa was super friendly to deal with, and answered the million questions I had. 7.6kg in medium with aero and comfort everything.
And ofc, it doesn't hurt that it's cheap :)
I bought the bars separately because I wanted 36cm bars.
Wow love the stickers as well :-D Tractor :-D
The glossy finish looks really good, was it a custom paint job or that the quality from the factory?
Thanks!
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Wow love the stickers as well :-D Tractor :-D
The glossy finish looks really good, was it a custom paint job or that the quality from the factory?
Thanks!
Yeah I'm trolling Factor :)
It's the gloss finish from the factory. The stickers are fancy car vinyl cut with a plotter (Ortega, Oraca, Orca or something like that). I sent the file to a guy near me, stickering the whole bike cost me 10 euro (I did the design and layout, so I'm not counting my time).
Depending on the light you can see the carbon below, i'm very pleased with it. Both finishes (the other frame was matte) were great, i built them myself and nowhere did i notice obvious flaws (I'm not OCD on that though, my bikes tend to be covered in dry sweat and wax flakes). Idk whether they do custom paint, i didn't ask.
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Yeah I'm trolling Factor :)
It's the gloss finish from the factory. The stickers are fancy car vinyl cut with a plotter (Ortega, Oraca, Orca or something like that). I sent the file to a guy near me, stickering the whole bike cost me 10 euro (I did the design and layout, so I'm not counting my time).
Depending on the light you can see the carbon below, i'm very pleased with it. Both finishes (the other frame was matte) were great, i built them myself and nowhere did i notice obvious flaws (I'm not OCD on that though, my bikes tend to be covered in dry sweat and wax flakes). Idk whether they do custom paint, i didn't ask.
If I may ask you a help...
I'm struggling to find good bike frame size. The issue is I'm really tall (199) but it's all coming from the legs. I have Canyon Grail at XXL, I believe it's seat tube is 61cm. It's great for Seat Height, but it way to long in reach for me. I tried some other friends Grails and the L felt the most comfortable for the front triangle.
So front triangle from these Chinese brands if I get something like 58cm or even 56cm would be great, but comes in the issue with these sexy looking but non-standard shape seat-posts. I almost pulled the trigger on the SP Cycles one because I just loved everything about it until I got in touch with them... and their XL with 56cm seat-post comes with 300mm seatpost that can be extended max to 20cm. So compared to my saddle high of 80cm I'm running 56+20 = 76cm a 4cm too short. They can't sell me any that are longer :-(
These seaposts aren't standard right, so I have no option to buy this particular frame.
Could you please measure your seat posts length and max extension?
What would you do in my place? Do you think it's possible to some how McGiyver the seatpost to be extendable those extra 4cm?
Thanks :-)
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Your saddle height is 80cm? Mine is 80-81 and there's plenty of seatpost left. I measure the distance between the center of the BB to the saddle. Virtually any bike in medium can accommodate that distance, because I've never had an issue (vb168, vb gf002, the grevil copycat I'm testing...).
I suspect I misunderstood though because I have long legs but I'm "only" 184, so I don't see how you could be 199.
Oh the bright side, long legs means smaller frames, so even if you're a giant, you'll find a frame that fits. Pick a relaxed one though
"So compared to my saddle high of 80cm I'm running 56+20 = 76cm a 4cm too short. They can't sell me any that are longer".
That reads like you're linking top tube length with saddle height, which makes no sense to me.
Please explain :)
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Thank you for the message. It does sound inspiring that I might fit!
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Thank you for the message. It does sound inspiring that I might fit!
My apologies for this post, but there is no way you are 199cm tall and ride a 80cm middle bottom bracket to saddle top fit.
I am 195cm with 96cm inseam and run 87cm middle bottom bracket to saddle top - for sure you will end up with a similar number, if not slightly more.
The Canyon Grail is a great bike, but indeed the reach is quite long as it is designed to be ridden with a short stem.
I still believe you will struggle to find a Chinese frame, not because of the seat top & seat post length - but because of the missing stack and massive drop between saddle top and handle bar.
Selecting a frame would require to get the stack / saddle top to handle bar drop, as well.
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My apologies for this post, but there is no way you are 199cm tall and ride a 80cm middle bottom bracket to saddle top fit.
I am 195cm with 96cm inseam and run 87cm middle bottom bracket to saddle top - for sure you will end up with a similar number, if not slightly more.
Well, they didn't say that they measure saddle height from the center of BB — might be measuring from the top of the pedal during the upstroke.
IMO, the correct way of measuring saddle height is from the top of the pedal during downstroke, measuring from center of BB doesn't account for different crank arm lengths, which absolutely affect your saddle height
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Sorry guys for the mess. I wrote longer response and some how it only posted my first sentence... :-|
I cocked up the measuring. I just remeasured from center of BB to top of the saddle and it's 84cm. And I'm running 175mm cranks and on the Grail SPDs. Maybe I'm not all legs and I just have short arms? :-O
@Serge_K When I said 56 I didn't refer to frame size I did refer to length of seat-tube and on their XL size frame it's 563mm.
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Sorry guys for the mess. I wrote longer response and some how it only posted my first sentence... :-|
I cocked up the measuring. I just remeasured from center of BB to top of the saddle and it's 84cm. And I'm running 175mm cranks and on the Grail SPDs. Maybe I'm not all legs and I just have short arms? :-O
@Serge_K When I said 56 I didn't refer to frame size I did refer to length of seat-tube and on their XL size frame it's 563mm.
Hahaha fair enough, I've never measured that tube. I'd have to check my own bikes, but in medium, 84cm from center of BB to top of the saddle probably works, I don't think any of my seatposts are nearing their limits. You'd surely at least get a size larger, so you're not a Frankenstein at all. Simply email the sellers, when I bought the VB frames I asked them to confirm I could run 81, and they said yes. They will not lie to you if you ask such a specific question, and that way you're not gambling on the outcome.
You can measure your ape index, I have long legs and a positive ape index, so I'm most comfortable on a smaller frame, but I can fit on a frame someone my size would typically run. It took me something like 5 bikes to realize that...
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Thank you for the details. Where did you buy your Tractor from? The more I look at it trhe more I like it! It has a nice balance between aero and elegant look.
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Thank you for the details. Where did you buy your Tractor from? The more I look at it trhe more I like it! It has a nice balance between aero and elegant look.
It's a LT 268 bought from LT (longtengalisa@163.com) directly. The bars are Airwolf from Aliexpress (I wanted 36cm bars). I bought 2 medium, 1 gloss & 1 matte. Both great. Easy to build (electronic is so much easier to build than mechanical). Holes were round and the inside looked clean. I'm not a carbon expert but i'm c.83kg and i'm riding it up and down without worrying if it will break, so i trust the thing with my life, de facto.
The frame looks a lot like a factor, and factor knows a thing or 2 about froth.
Apparently, fwiw, Long teng makes Argon 18 frames.
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Thank you so much Serge_K!
You've really helped me on this one! And the version you got was UD right?
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UD, correct!
If you want to hurt your brain & save 30g, you can try to get thru axles somewhere else (you'd have to ask the exact specs to know what to buy).
The thru axles i got from LT were 92g, and the ones on a gravel bike i got since from a different seller were 60g, so you can find 60g thru axles if you look (they're nothing special, just lighter).
Given that Alisa will charge you for them, you may want to arbitrage that. 2-3% weight of the frameset, that may or may not be trivial to you :)
Glad to be of assistance!
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Ohhh thank you for the tip. It's always nice to know where to dig some grams out if needed. I'm tho myself pretty tall and pretty heavy, so I don't know if that justifies it. But then again, it's about enjoying it, so I might go for it :-)
What came with your frameset all together?
Any building tips or suggestions? What headset and bb did you get?
Thanks! :-)
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It came with all the usual stuff, so Alisa charged me for the headset, thru axles, a spare RD derailleur hanger. I bought bars separately, ultimately i dont remember what came with what, but i was able to build the bike. BB is ZTTO machined alumiunium type where 1 side screws into the other, it's been working great on various bikes. It's kind of like a hambini BB in spririt (you end up with a solid metal sleeve across the BB instead of standalones PF cups), but it costs <20 eur. ceramic bearings make no sense in cycling, so i have steel bearings. I avoid riding in the rain, i dont commute, so my bike lives a bit like a princess.
I absolutely loathe aligning rotors, but eventually i managed (took me several hundred km of breaking stuff in, i find that you need to ride the bike a fair amount including sprints and downhills for stuff to fall into place).
I feel like mentioning again how much i hate aligning rotors. For me that's by far the worst bit of the build. The rest, now using electronic groupsets, is so easy.
I have a set of fine files and picks on hand because i've built tricky bikes, but here i dont think i needed them. but i consider it normal to file an exit hole for example, especially on the bars, because it takes 10 seconds and can make your life easier. Housings get scratched very easily by sharp edges of carbon, doesn't help w routing.
Route 1 housing on each side of the steerer, for symmetry. be mindful of how the housing enters into the bars as well. It's the kind of thing that if you mess it up, the bike may tend to not track straight which is not feng shui.
You probably need 5min routing through the chainstays instead of 10 seconds because it's 2 triangles glued together (like 90+% of bikes), so i have an aliexpress routing kit that probably cost me 4 eur and i typically use it. I think you could just as well use a gear cable. I use duct tape either way to attach the routing wire w the electric cable.
I routinely 3d print tools & shims but from memory wasnt needed on that one. For T47 BBs for example i have 3d printed tightening tools, but for this one i think it's the standard format that you have in any set of bike tools.
I used packing materials to stick the battery in the seatpost, was appropriately ghetto, but i guess it's working.
I dont think i ll build mechanical bikes again. hydraulic brakes are just better, and electronic groups are so much easier to install. the er9 is cheap (at least compared to what can be found in europe).
A lot of words to basically say i had no issues. Take your time, make sure the room you work in is well lit, and try to enjoy the process :)
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Thank you so much for the detailed info! I'd definitely enjoy a two piece BB. I've had one for other bike of mine and it's the best.
Do you have any good/bad experience with bearings from china? I got DT style hubs from there and the bearings are 6802 2RS but from a lower tier brand. At least it's some name for it. I'm thinking should I upgrade to enduro bearings right away or use these up and then swap them out...
I'm also torn between R8020 mechanical Ultegra and Di2 Ultegra or the Force from SRAM. I like the idea that bike will work no matter if I charge it or not, but then again especially with Force the fact that there are only two brake lines and that's it makes me very happy about it. I guess you do enjoy your electronic shifting, would you ever go back to mechanical?
I'm in no rush for a change, just came out few weeks ago from knee surgery so I can do this slow and as good as possible. I might even reface the brake post mounts, maybe it would help with brake alignment?
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I have nothing of value to say about bearings. i know ceramic ones make no sense for cycling. I know Hambini feels strongly about them. I know my ZTTO BB spins so well without load you'd almost want to post it on insta. Beyond that...
I am very pleased with my er9. When it's charged (it doesnt work if it's not charged, and that is not trivial, i am an imbecile after all, the thing died on me twice already because i thought it was charged, and wasn't (my fault entirely)), it's really great. Now, assuming you maintain your drivetrain and set it up properly, mechanical works super well. I think the biggest difference is front derailleur shifting. One cute trick i found with electronic is shifting the front & rear up or down at the same time. It's flawless and makes shifting the front smoother than usual. Doesn't work if you're already at the end of the cassette, but it's not something i would ever do on mechanical. I also find myself shifting much more on electronic because it's effortless and instant. Front shifting on mechanical does require quite a hand movement, electronic is just a click.
So, do you need it? no. Is it nice? yes. For c.400 usd (if not less) for the er9, i think it's super compelling. I also like the gear protection option (you can't cross chain the last 2 cogs), and, super important, you can change from 7 to 12s in app. The last batch of 4 bikes i built, i bought a mix of 11 and 12 components for various reasons, it's incredibly helpful to install whatever on the bike and just change it in the app (I'm thinking large cassettes especially that exist in 11 but not 12s, for example, like 11-36 superlight).
Now, if the groups start dying on us, i'll do a 180 degree on my opinion, but for now, we all love our groups. I have an older friend who's got several s works, ultegra & dura ace (not the latest). He says the er9 is faster, smoother and more silent than his ultegra. Having ridden behind guys on ulegra di2 (not the latest), Ultegra has a distinct sound which the er9 barely has, it at all. Arguably you can sneak out on friends that way, like if you shift intelligently, you can outsprint them and they wouldnt hear it coming.
I havent ridden in the rain, i know some people have reported problems. That does worry me. I bought liquid eletric tape but i need to 3d print some narrow applicator cap thing because i currently have zero precision to seal the connector on the RD. Afaik, people who sealed that port have fixed any problems they had with waterproofing. At which point, i think the thing just works.
But again, only time will tell. So far so good, but we've ridden probably 2-2.5k km total, which really isnt much.
Last, my bias. I think most of SRAM innovations in recent years are an insult to engineering, and i think most of what Shimano's been doing in years is patent trolling. So i vote with my money as well. I'm a contrarian, and i have little interest in funding the marketing budgets of big brands. As far as I'm concerned, Jumbo visma can buy their own groups, just like i'm not paying for the shoes that OM or PSG football players are using.
Rant over.