Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: raisinberry777 on May 04, 2024, 01:45:36 AM
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From LTwoo's 2024-25 catalogue, looks like all the rim brake levers will be refreshed to match the design of the hydraulic levers (with the Campagnolo-style thumb shifter than the older Shimano Sora-style thumb lever in the awkward spot).
(https://i.imgur.com/dzwtkPj.png)
Mechanical derailleurs getting a refresh too - different graphics but hard to see what's changed mechanically.
(https://i.imgur.com/SV314FT.png)
R9 gets the holographic decal treatment
(https://i.imgur.com/vyOR8Fx.png)
More minimal design continues down through the product line:
(https://i.imgur.com/Rd4U2xI.png)
A slight graphical refresh on the gravel rear derailleurs but looks mostly the same
(https://i.imgur.com/StSqf1N.png)
Still no sign of an electronic rim brake lever so Wheeltop likely to be the only Chinese player in that space for a little while unless Sensah springs a surprise.
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New mechanical rear derailleurs coming too:
(https://i.imgur.com/LFhwSHv.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/fCUyOXl.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/gZYTazQ.png)
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A pity there's no sign of increased cassette clearance. I'd like to see a 2x which gets to 36 at least.
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Do ltwoo have unique cable pull ratios?
Those derailleurs are all definitely exactly the same thing with different stickers
U can just use the gravel mech if u need more range
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Do ltwoo have unique cable pull ratios?
Those derailleurs are all definitely exactly the same thing with different stickers
U can just use the gravel mech if u need more range
Ltwoo uses the Shimano 11/12 speed pull ratio. Though Shimano mechanical shifters have dropped in price significantly. I don't think I'd even opt for Ltwoo or Sensah at this point for mechanical.
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Kind of disappointed by this refresh, seem to be mostly a cosmetic refresh and the internal were not change. You cannot do the gear dumping into harder gears like the hydro version and Campy. Was so excited to have a rim brake Chinese Campag clone, but this is not it :-\
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Wait, these do not use the same thumb shifter as the hydraulic R9 and RX?
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Wait, these do not use the same thumb shifter as the hydraulic R9 and RX?
They do. For some odd reason they chose not to show them in the pics.
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They do. For some odd reason they chose not to show them in the pics.
The reason isn't odd, it's to make the uninitiated people buy the product because it looks just like a regular set of shifters on the pictures
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But if it is the same style thumb shifter as Hydro R9/RX why could you not shift multiple gears at once as Alex Jones mentioned?
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But if it is the same style thumb shifter as Hydro R9/RX why could you not shift multiple gears at once as Alex Jones mentioned?
My guess is they kept the internals of the shifter and just changed the lever design. Probably costed too much to engineer the shifting mechanism into the mechanical mold or maybe it has some patent reason. I was so excited to see them at first thinking I could finally get Campy slam shifting with Shimano hardware on rim brakes (always wanted it ever since I used a Campy shifter). Imagine my surprise when I received them, and they would only do 1 shift into the harder gear
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It's a shame they did not learn from Campagnolo's mistakes on how to optimise lever ergonomics for a single shift down. This is very much like Campagnolo's early Powershift levers (the 2011-2014) which are pretty generally disliked for the same reason - the lever is in the same position as the Ultrashift levers but can only do the first shift to a harder gear (which L-Twoo seem to have done here). When they revised it in 2015 to be more like the EPS thumb lever (which sits much lower and is angled in) it significantly improved the ergonomics (I'd even say they're one of my favourite mechanical shift levers of all time).
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My guess is they kept the internals of the shifter and just changed the lever design. Probably costed too much to engineer the shifting mechanism into the mechanical mold or maybe it has some patent reason. I was so excited to see them at first thinking I could finally get Campy slam shifting with Shimano hardware on rim brakes (always wanted it ever since I used a Campy shifter). Imagine my surprise when I received them, and they would only do 1 shift into the harder gear
Maybe there is just a mechanical blockage inside the new style brake levers. Similar to what campy did in Ekar.
I almost doubt they could mount old mechanism inside the new style levers, because the position of the downshift lever is completely different in new vs old.
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Maybe there is just a mechanical blockage inside the new style brake levers. Similar to what campy did in Ekar.
I almost doubt they could mount old mechanism inside the new style levers, because the position of the downshift lever is completely different in new vs old.
It is possible, but I doubt it. I looked at the internals of the R9 Hydro vs R9 Mechanical and the shifting mechanism/gears are completely different. The R9 Hydro has something more akin to Campy Ultrashift mechanism while the R9 Mechanical has something more akin to Campy Powershift internals (think 2015 Veloce). The Campy Powershift levers only did 3 up and 1 down.
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First shots I've seen of the new RD-R60XX-M series derailleurs, here's the RX version from Spiro Bicycles in Colombia:
(https://i.imgur.com/cjfSUrQ.png)
Looks pretty sleek.
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Does anyone know if LTwoo added reach adjustments in the new shifter? There isn't in the old mechanical shifter.
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The new design does indeed have the Campy style thumb shifter. I've been talking to L-Twoo and am working on getting my hands on a new set to try out.
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Yes, it is the same shape/design, but operation is a bit different between mechanical and hydraulic brake versions.
In the hydraulic version you can shift multiple gears in one push in both directions.
But the mechanical brake version is different, the thumb lever only shifts one cog at the time.
I received R9 mechanical a few weeks ago, haven't mounted them on the bike yet...
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I should have the new RX mechanical version on the way next week. Looking forward to getting it on the bike and seeing how it compares to the Sensah Empire pro I've been using the last couple seasons.
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In the hydraulic version you can shift multiple gears in one push in both directions.
But the mechanical brake version is different, the thumb lever only shifts one cog at the time.
The hydraulic shifters have also been updated so that the thumb lever only shifts one cog at a time.
I have an older R9 hydraulic set where the thumb lever can do shift multiple gears, but the R9 hydraulic set that I bought recently can only do one at a time.
The logo on the larger shift paddle is different on the two versions.
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The hydraulic shifters have also been updated so that the thumb lever only shifts one cog at a time.
I have an older R9 hydraulic set where the thumb lever can do shift multiple gears, but the R9 hydraulic set that I bought recently can only do one at a time.
The logo on the larger shift paddle is different on the two versions.
Did the max cassette size change? I'm seeing listings saying its now 50t plus capable.
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Did the max cassette size change? I'm seeing listings saying its now 50t plus capable.
Mine is the road R9, not the gravel GR9. The RD in my new group looks the same as the one from the old group, so max 32T by spec. But I'm using Shimano derailleurs, so haven't inspected in detail or tested the claim.
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The hydraulic shifters have also been updated so that the thumb lever only shifts one cog at a time.
I have an older R9 hydraulic set where the thumb lever can do shift multiple gears, but the R9 hydraulic set that I bought recently can only do one at a time.
The logo on the larger shift paddle is different on the two versions.
Wow I hate when manufacturers take features away on new versions like that. Kind of takes away the whole appeal of the LTwoo shifters (being Campag style shifting but works with Shimano pull). I wonder if it was due to a patent issue. Better load up on the old version while they're still available, I guess.
Someone should ask one of their reps why they did that if given a chance at trade shows.
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Lol I ordered some groupsets listed as 2022 in hopes of stocking up on the rapid release versions before they become harder to find but was sent 2024/2025 versions of the shifters. It's Joever :'(. Seems like you even can't get the Campag-style release ones anymore.
New version definitely seems to shift lighter (less force required to actuate), but I still liked the old version better. Shifting mechanism 100% changed on the 2024 refresh (see pics, left is old version).
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Bummer. I wonder if they had some kind of patent issue.
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Pardon my ignorance on this. Which version or model would be electric shifters but mechanical Rim brake?
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Pardon my ignorance on this. Which version or model would be electric shifters but mechanical Rim brake?
None - L-Twoo doesn't offer that.
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None - L-Twoo doesn't offer that.
Thanks
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@AlexJones
Where did you order your groupsets from? I'd like to get my hands on some too.
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Anyone with link or contact info to get this newest version of RX mechanical?
Thanks
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@AlexJones
Where did you order your groupsets from? I'd like to get my hands on some too.
"LTWOO Official Store" on AliExpress.
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For a laugh and to use up some spare parts I've ordered the R7 10-speed rim brake, mechanical groupset in the 2024 version.
Having used a variety of Campag groupsets in the past it will be interesting to see how this feels in comparison.
65 USD on AliExpress for shifters, FD and RD - certainly pretty cheap. Shame that the newer FD (with the tension adjusting screw) and RD (shadow style) don't seem to be available on AliExpress yet but maybe that's a later upgrade.
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Video (not mine) of the new RX mechanical rear derailleur. Looks nice.
https://youtu.be/YoIomHYcCJY
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R7 parts arrived yesterday.
Real weights:
Shifters (with inner cable) - 521g
FD (braze-on): 101g
RD: 269g
Other parts I'm using - probably useful for those trying to do a similar budget build:
Riro Racer R9 crankset (50/34, 170mm, with preload cap) - 821g
ZRace R700 brakes - 379g
First impressions of the shifters are very good. The hood rubber has a lovely texture, is just the right softness. The matte finish looks nice (given the price), clicks feel well-defined - I'm seriously impressed at $65 USD for the shifters/FD/RD. The FD and RD are a little more basic (but at about the level I'd expect for the price) - hopefully in the future the package is available with the new FD and RD. RD is a typical mid-cage size of 70mm bolt-to-bolt, same as the mid-cage options for Tiagra 4700 / 105 5800 / Ultegra 6800, so will work fine with at least an 11-32 cassette.
Operation is basically identical to the 2015-current Campagnolo Powershift levers. Single shift down, multiple shifts up. Left shifter operates similarly to Powershift too. 4 positions, one sweep of the shifter will get you all the way up, a light press of the shifter gets you back to position three, and a full press gets you back down to position one. The gradual release minimises chain drops - basically what happens is (starting from position four), pressing down on the lever takes it back to position two, then the release takes it back to position one. This means that the FD doesn't go through its whole travel in one click. Of course, there's absolutely no instructions (and none on their website) so I'll set it up the same way as a Powershift lever and see how we go.
The ergonomics of the left shifter alone make this a much better buy than Sensah, IMO. I would only consider Sensah for a 1x build - my experience with the front shifting on Sensah Phi was pretty terrible (http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,4944.msg60101.html#msg60101). I do wonder what's in Sensah's future as we haven't seen any changes for a while.
Interestingly total price for the 8 main groupset pieces (L/R shifters, FD, RD, crank, brakes, chain, cassette) has come out to about $140 USD - this makes for some really interesting opportunities to refresh old bikes with modern ergonomics and gear range on a budget.
EDIT: And now somehow in playing around with it the indexing mechanism in the right hand lever has broken. Sigh. Good start, L-TWOO....
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EDIT: And now somehow in playing around with it the indexing mechanism in the right hand lever has broken. Sigh. Good start, L-TWOO....
LOL.
fwiw, a friend broke his er9 shifter paddle by falling in slow motion. First ride of the season, he's like 55yo, he was chatting with a friend, i think he forgot to unclip or something, fell in slow motion like we've all done at some point, but he was unlucky and that was enough to break the paddle. Now he's pissed off because he's convinced his ultegra paddle wouldnt have broken in the same conditions. He's saying he thinks whatever plastic polymer LTWOO uses, is shit.
He may have a point then :)
Saving 5 cents on every plastic paddle by using a shitty grade of plastic would be such a chinese thing to do, they'd likely consider it to be smart, culturally (as per Poorly made in China book i read, full of interesting anecdotes).
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LOL.
fwiw, a friend broke his er9 shifter paddle by falling in slow motion. First ride of the season, he's like 55yo, he was chatting with a friend, i think he forgot to unclip or something, fell in slow motion like we've all done at some point, but he was unlucky and that was enough to break the paddle. Now he's pissed off because he's convinced his ultegra paddle wouldnt have broken in the same conditions. He's saying he thinks whatever plastic polymer LTWOO uses, is shit.
He may have a point then :)
Saving 5 cents on every plastic paddle by using a shitty grade of plastic would be such a chinese thing to do, they'd likely consider it to be smart, culturally (as per Poorly made in China book i read, full of interesting anecdotes).
Well, it wasn't immediately obvious as to what had broken, the shift was for some reason feeling a little hard, then a snap, then nothing. There's no obvious external damage, but it's something in the indexing mechanism that's perhaps broken off. I'm no expert in these things, and in our wasteful modern times, because it's a Choice purchase I've just sent it back and there's another one coming (I'm a sucker for punishment).
It's a shame because, in every other respect, it's a seemingly very nice shifter. The ergonomics are very similar to the 2009-onwards Campag levers (which are probably my favourite mechanical levers - though the current Shimano rim brake stuff seems very close). If it fails again second time around, I'll cut my losses and try something else - at the end of the day it's just an experiment in how cheaply I can refresh an old bike as a winter/spare bike, with my beloved Campag ergonomics but the convenience of Shimano compatible spares. Perhaps by the end of next week we shall see, if the gods of shipping are in my favour.
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Anyway, one week later + a bike I found cheaply on FB Marketplace and an experiment began - is L-Twoo R7 a good option to do a refresh of an old bike on the cheap?
Found this beautiful little 2008 Giant OCR 2W - it had been converted to a flat bar but after running the numbers, I suspected that with a reasonably aggressive fit I should be able to make the geometry work. What made this frame a particularly interesting option is the tyre clearance, it's designed around mid-drop brakes but I suspected as rim brakes started to be designed for larger tyres that short-reach brakes might work after all (and they did). Currently running a 30mm tyre and there's room for a bit more (about 32mm measured width is probably a sensible limit - but great for a rim-brake bike).
The drivetrain is full AliExpress, being (prices in USD:
L-Twoo R7 10 speed shifters/derailleurs - $65
Riro Racer R9 crankset - $39
ZRace R700 brakes - $18
YBN 10s chain - $11
Sensah 10s 11-32 cassette - $10
That's $143 for a 10 speed drivetrain, before any coupons/cashback. I reused the Shimano bottom bracket, but that would only be another $10. I also added an Elita One seatpost ($15) and Kocevlo bars ($27), and the saddle, stem and tyres were spares I had lying around.
After last week's debacle (see above) I decided not to play with the shifters until it was fully cabled up - however first impressions are great. Lever ergonomics are good, for those who have ever used a Campy Powershift lever it will immediately feel familiar. Shifts feel nice from the tops and drops. Shifts don't feel as nice as R7000, but they're crisp, nicely defined and the ergonomics are a winner.
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Had some rattling in the shifters. Removed this washer here as suggested in this Reddit post:
(https://i.imgur.com/5tMJdCe.png)
https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench/comments/1j8kk5y/fixed_rattling_noise_in_ltwoo_r9_shifters_spoiler/
Fixed my rattling.
Feelings after a couple of rides is that these are really quite good. Very impressed given the price. Miles better than the Sensah Phi I have played with previously. Shifts cleanly, feels good, not much more I can ask for.
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Thanks for the info, and review. I've been going back and forth over replacing my Sensah Empire Pro groupset with the RX group. Think I'm gonna give it a shot.