Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: Petr (CyclistsHub.com) on May 05, 2024, 06:26:11 AM
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It seems that more Chinese manufacturers are interested in penetrating the groupset market, which is dominated by Shimano and SRAM. After Ltwoo, Sehsah, and Wheeltop, Magene is a new player. They showcased their QED 12spd road groupset at Shanghai's China International Bicycle Fair. I got this info (and pictures) from a person attending the fair. So, there might be some discrepancies. Anyway, here is what I know:
- 12spd semi-wireless groupset
- looks like Shimano 105
- it will have hidden buttons on the inside
- hoods/shifters compatible with rim + hydraulic disc brakes
The price or the release date is unknown. What is your guess?
More details and pictures at: https://www.cyclistshub.com/magene-qed-groupset-revealed/
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Now this is gas
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How can the same shifters work with both brake cables and hydraulic housing?
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Certainly interesting if they can get a product to market and throw some good support behind it (support historically for Magene products seems... lacklustre). For example, see this thread:
https://chinertown.com/index.php?topic=4221.0
The P505 certainly seems to have been a success for them though and they've at least shown with that that they can make a reliable product.
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This is hype. I feel like magene quality is above the rest
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Panda Podium posted a video on his IG profile:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6l0X9-y_N_ (https://www.instagram.com/reel/C6l0X9-y_N_)
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They also have powermeter pedals promising to compete with assiomas. Wish they made PM cranks again though
But what happened to sensah?? I think they were the second teased electronic groupset from china after wheeltop but i've not heard about it in over a year
How can the same shifters work with both brake cables and hydraulic housing?
Joe said rim brake will be available later so they are not the same shifters
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Joe said rim brake will be available later so they are not the same shifters
My source sent me this photo that Magene told him about the shifter disc + rim compatibility. But I honestly have no idea how it works.
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Well that is a great idea.
You just need to provide a way to connect a cable to the lever along the hydraulic cylinder.
So if you use hydraulic, you just use cylinder. O
f you use rim brake you actuate both the cable and cylinder at the same time, but cylinder does nothing.
I wonder how nobody thought of that before...
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Well that is a great idea.
You just need to provide a way to connect a cable to the lever along the hydraulic cylinder.
So if you use hydraulic, you just use cylinder. O
f you use rim brake you actuate both the cable and cylinder at the same time, but cylinder does nothing.
I wonder how nobody thought of that before...
I would guess it makes the shifter bigger...
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My source sent me this photo that Magene told him about the shifter disc + rim compatibility. But I honestly have no idea how it works.
According to the Chinese conversation in the cyclisthub video, the hole on top is for mechanical brake cable. The hydraulic brake hose goes to the traditional location below.
It's one single design that accepts both mechanical and hydraulic braking. Neat.
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They also have powermeter pedals promising to compete with assiomas. Wish they made PM cranks again though
But what happened to sensah?? I think they were the second teased electronic groupset from china after wheeltop but i've not heard about it in over a year
Joe said rim brake will be available later so they are not the same shifters
PM Cranks are mechanically speaking an inferior design to spider PMs. For spider PMs they are build with a pair of sheer gauges that can naturally filter out components of applied torque that are not due to rider pedaling, while crank based PMs rely heavily on post-processing to clean the data to a usable level. You also only need one side to measure true L/R combined power (though the power decomposition to L/R is still more or less guess work), which is especially good if you have a pretty big L/R difference (For me it's 56/44, so a left-side-only setup would overestimate my power by quite a lot)
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I used to have a similar power imbalance. You may need shims or insoles. However, just lowering the saddle 1.5cm for me made the balance equal.
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PM Cranks are mechanically speaking an inferior design to spider PMs. For spider PMs they are build with a pair of sheer gauges that can naturally filter out components of applied torque that are not due to rider pedaling, while crank based PMs rely heavily on post-processing to clean the data to a usable level. You also only need one side to measure true L/R combined power (though the power decomposition to L/R is still more or less guess work), which is especially good if you have a pretty big L/R difference (For me it's 56/44, so a left-side-only setup would overestimate my power by quite a lot)
I just really want directmount chainrings
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Why
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Why
Subcompact options that are hard to get with BCD, plus the rings are very pretty
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I just really want directmount chainrings
I bought Magene's QED crankset with direct-mount chainrings before it got pulled from the markets. Horrible experience, Magene bungled the design and they would bend and become permanently deformed from normal pedaling loads. Magene's warranty department was useless and asked me to delete my chinertown thread on the issue to cover up their screw-up. The most I got from this was a new chainring, which bent again. My experience might be part of the reason why that product got pulled from the shelves in the first place.
Even worse, they have a proprietary chainring interface and no aftermarket spider or alternative chainrings, which means I am completely fucked and have a $500 brick of a crankset. In summary, be thankful they learned from their mistakes and aren't making DM chainrings anymore.
I know the spider based PMs are great, PES is great, and their accessories are great, but damn do I feel bitter about Magene after my QED experience.
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I used to have a similar power imbalance. You may need shims or insoles. However, just lowering the saddle 1.5cm for me made the balance equal.
I have worked with both a professional coach and a fitter. Position is much more comfortable for me now but I still can't get my imbalance to improve.
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I bought Magene's QED crankset with direct-mount chainrings before it got pulled from the markets. Horrible experience, Magene bungled the design and they would bend and become permanently deformed from normal pedaling loads. Magene's warranty department was useless and asked me to delete my chinertown thread on the issue to cover up their screw-up. The most I got from this was a new chainring, which bent again. My experience might be part of the reason why that product got pulled from the shelves in the first place.
Even worse, they have a proprietary chainring interface and no aftermarket spider or alternative chainrings, which means I am completely fucked and have a $500 brick of a crankset. In summary, be thankful they learned from their mistakes and aren't making DM chainrings anymore.
I know the spider based PMs are great, PES is great, and their accessories are great, but damn do I feel bitter about Magene after my QED experience.
oh wow. Asking you to delete threads on here is really something. i guess public forums really are important consumer protection / decision tools.
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My QED powermeter crank and chainrings are still ok after 2years.
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What's the difference between the QED chainrings, and the optional chainrings supplied with the PES? I'm trying to understand by Magene's QED video.
Are the QED rings similar to SRAM Red's one-piece design?
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Here
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What's the difference between the QED chainrings, and the optional chainrings supplied with the PES? I'm trying to understand by Magene's QED video.
Are the QED rings similar to SRAM Red's one-piece design?
As a follow-up:
The QED crankset was launched in 3 versions. 1) A standalone crankset with the integrated chainrings, no PM, 2) crankset with the beloved spider-based PM and bolt on chainrings--the exact same PM and rings as on the PES, and 3) with integrated chainrings and Stages/4iii-style P325-model PM in the crankarms, dubbed the "QED P325".
You can watch my unboxing on the P325 model video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt1B119gEiA&t=157s&pp=ygUKbWFnZW5lIHFlZA%3D%3D (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mt1B119gEiA&t=157s&pp=ygUKbWFnZW5lIHFlZA%3D%3D)
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What's the difference between the QED chainrings, and the optional chainrings supplied with the PES? I'm trying to understand by Magene's QED video.
Are the QED rings similar to SRAM Red's one-piece design?
Basically QED just denotes that it's DUB spindle. Can be any configuration.
PES is for 24mm spindle.
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It seems that more Chinese manufacturers are interested in penetrating the groupset market, which is dominated by Shimano and SRAM. After Ltwoo, Sehsah, and Wheeltop, Magene is a new player. They showcased their QED 12spd road groupset at Shanghai's China International Bicycle Fair. I got this info (and pictures) from a person attending the fair. So, there might be some discrepancies. Anyway, here is what I know:
- 12spd semi-wireless groupset
- looks like Shimano 105
- it will have hidden buttons on the inside
- hoods/shifters compatible with rim + hydraulic disc brakes
The price or the release date is unknown. What is your guess?
where is Sensahs Electronic offering?
thanks
More details and pictures at: https://www.cyclistshub.com/magene-qed-groupset-revealed/
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Joe has had a sensah for a while supposed to be coming Q3 this year
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I used to have a similar power imbalance. You may need shims or insoles. However, just lowering the saddle 1.5cm for me made the balance equal.
Same here, lowered the saddle and now I am 50/50 and much more stable on the saddle. It was also possible with shorter cranks 175 to 170 because my hips are more open now.
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Joe has had a sensah for a while supposed to be coming Q3 this year
hello,
just heard there is already a sensah electronic since last year. it looks it was last year on Eurobike. due to patent issues has been not showed this year and not released.
also that they had to change the name from Sensah to other one.
lets see what the future brings to us.
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I bought Magene's QED crankset with direct-mount chainrings before it got pulled from the markets. Horrible experience, Magene bungled the design and they would bend and become permanently deformed from normal pedaling loads. Magene's warranty department was useless and asked me to delete my chinertown thread on the issue to cover up their screw-up. The most I got from this was a new chainring, which bent again. My experience might be part of the reason why that product got pulled from the shelves in the first place.
Even worse, they have a proprietary chainring interface and no aftermarket spider or alternative chainrings, which means I am completely fucked and have a $500 brick of a crankset. In summary, be thankful they learned from their mistakes and aren't making DM chainrings anymore.
I know the spider based PMs are great, PES is great, and their accessories are great, but damn do I feel bitter about Magene after my QED experience.
Hey, seems that is shimano MTB direct mount. There is an adaptor from zrace to 5bolts bcd 110 that you could use.
EDIT: actually it might not fit :(
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I'm more interested in their dual power meter pedals being released soon, as well as their EXAR Ultra 60/68mm wheels dropping next month.
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This is underhyped. If they can come up with a complete groupset for under $1000 they can make it big time. Hope to see a release soon.
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This is underhyped. If they can come up with a complete groupset for under $1000 they can make it big time. Hope to see a release soon.
It's underhyped because building a groupset - as L-Twoo and Wheeltop are experiencing - isn't easy and there's a lot of little details that matter. I think in general the consumer market is becoming more hesitant about being unpaid beta testers for Chinese groupsets.
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It's underhyped because building a groupset - as L-Twoo and Wheeltop are experiencing - isn't easy and there's a lot of little details that matter. I think in general the consumer market is becoming more hesitant about being unpaid beta testers for Chinese groupsets.
If they can release a quality electronic groupset as a package including their PM cranks they will wreck L-TWOO and Wheeltop
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Has anyone in the western world followed any of Magene's latest official announcement on their new QED groupset? It looks very promising. Respectable weight, profile management, extra Di2-like buttons, Di2-like Synchronized Shift, etc .. I wonder if they will eventually release them for the western market?
https://www.163.com/dy/article/JEPEACTI0538OBFN.html
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That really slipped under the radar. Pricing seems pretty competitive and could provide an interesting alternative to 105 Di2. Wonder when we'll see it shipping internationally - they seem to be indicating that it's available now. I can see Pardus are advertising one of their bikes with it on Instagram.
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The article paints a very positive picture, we'll see how reality stacks up. Great to see the aux buttons, sadly no mentions of the possibility of sprint shifters
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Thanks for the update. Pre-orders for December in local markets. Maybe we get lucky and they open it up for international buyers in spring, just in time for the 2025 season.
Anyone knows what their "Disc brake version (integrated caliper)" is? My understanding the other option "Disc brake version (split caliper)" is a "regular" brake caliper. Any "real" difference besides being a bit lighter, slightly different looks and higher price?
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That really slipped under the radar. Pricing seems pretty competitive and could provide an interesting alternative to 105 Di2. Wonder when we'll see it shipping internationally - they seem to be indicating that it's available now. I can see Pardus are advertising one of their bikes with it on Instagram.
At their current claimed weight, features and pricing, I would argue this is an even closer to being Ultegra competitor. Yes, it looks like they are only available offline. I did ask Magene official store at AliExpress and they said they do not have any plan on selling them "now". So maybe sometime next year.
Thanks for the update. Pre-orders for December in local markets. Maybe we get lucky and they open it up for international buyers in spring, just in time for the 2025 season.
Anyone knows what their "Disc brake version (integrated caliper)" is? My understanding the other option "Disc brake version (split caliper)" is a "regular" brake caliper. Any "real" difference besides being a bit lighter, slightly different looks and higher price?
Looks to me different design, even different size of piston, based on the images I saw.
What is even more impressive, if I understand correctly, you can purchase disc brake upgrade kit for rim brake. So you can use the same shifter body with few minor kit upgrade for both disc and rim brake. I hope someone who knows how to read/speak Chinese can confirm this.
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Some more footage in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hPPdvBeYbg
No release date yet, but hopefully they release it later and well tuned rather than sooner... Ltwoo electronic groupsets is plagued with issues everywhere I look...
I'm also interested in their powermeter pedals, I prefer that to crank based as it's much easier to swap around bikes.
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At their current claimed weight, features and pricing, I would argue this is an even closer to being Ultegra competitor. Yes, it looks like they are only available offline. I did ask Magene official store at AliExpress and they said they do not have any plan on selling them "now". So maybe sometime next year.
Cant be an ultegra competitior without satellite shifter support.
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Another video on Magene. Seems they are drumming up the marketing machine for upcoming releases.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmIdqCh7DzU
Edit: for anyone that also cannot see the link/video that aliexpress_junkie posted above:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hPPdvBeYbg
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I'm also interested in their powermeter pedals, I prefer that to crank based as it's much easier to swap around bikes.
Same here. I’m really happy with Magene’s P505 Spider based PM on my Sram cranks. I’d love to get competitively priced SPDbased PM pedals for my gravel bike though and be free to use any crank and chainring I want.
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Wheels, groupset, power meter, bike computer, lights. Even TPU tubes. A consumer could technically almost build an entire bike with just Magene products. Minus frame, saddle, and tires. Crazy when you think about it...
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Wheels, groupset, power meter, bike computer, lights. Even TPU tubes. A consumer could technically almost build an entire bike with just Magene products. Minus frame, saddle, and tires. Crazy when you think about it...
And home trainer xD. I wonder how much Magene is doing in house against how much they use subcontractors. I find a lot of their product is similar to Geodid for example and a cheaper variant of their home trainer is offered by Decathlon.
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Magene are the ones making most of those
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I'm almost certain that Magene and Geoid are the same company. Exactly the same products with different branding and you can buy Magene products in the Geoid store on Aliexpress. In addition to that the standard response to customer reviews are exactly the same on Magene store and on Geoid store.
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And home trainer xD. I wonder how much Magene is doing in house against how much they use subcontractors. I find a lot of their product is similar to Geodid for example and a cheaper variant of their home trainer is offered by Decathlon.
New China cycling video shows that Magene is the manufacturer.
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Does someone have new information about the release date of the QED electric groupset?
Just heard nothing in the last few months…
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My town’s local bike shop has a bike with a Magene QED groupset.
(https://scontent.fsgn1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/473248081_3907230016263361_4011803896758907431_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=knkJOb4sGMYQ7kNvgHwgFL6&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fsgn1-1.fna&_nc_gid=AeryCSbfhUh-k8Z2rHHIgNs&oh=00_AYA8uK86QDl2J34jeddmnb3DTqWXz3j8UQlkXl7FrlnLpA&oe=678A561B)
(https://scontent.fsgn2-7.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/473424280_3907230106263352_8031950784600986788_n.jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=FOPEyYdrgQYQ7kNvgHXdHgW&_nc_oc=AdiyFexPIk2jkGvcU0bn2pH9rcfw9qBchOfLmF7wH_E8S-mzXdem0mdLOk2-LyXvHOI&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fsgn2-7.fna&_nc_gid=AvO0Hn14Sc6QdCHgcQkLpkR&oh=00_AYDkjsf5Fr1M5s3J6WbmFEiInjlfSv2tziW0JSBl9qExjw&oe=678A584E)
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That RD looks heavily inspired by Shimano Di2
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That RD looks heavily inspired by Shimano Di2
Yea, it's pretty much the very same system as Di2, with a battery inside the frame. Not sure if you can make it look different.
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Looking at those closeups, i doubt it will come to market outside of china. There have to be some patent infringement somewhere in this groupset.
Even the cable holddown on the rear derailleur is the same as with shimano. They even copied the details. The body of the front derailleur looks very much like shimano while the rear derailleur is somewhat different in the shaping, but man, if you would slap on shimano logos, few would question its origin.
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Looking at those closeups, i doubt it will come to market outside of china. There have to be some patent infringement somewhere in this groupset.
Even the cable holddown on the rear derailleur is the same as with shimano. They even copied the details. The body of the front derailleur looks very much like shimano while the rear derailleur is somewhat different in the shaping, but man, if you would slap on shimano logos, few would question its origin.
If what you said was true it wouldn't be available in China either. Ask WT how getting too close to functional elements of of GX Eagle AXS went. I don't think Shimano have any blanket patents. It's obviously intended to look like Shimano, but Shimano can't do anything about that.
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Found this on WW forum
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Weight vs 105s
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Is that an auxilliary button marked on the inside?
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Weight vs 105s
curious why the comparison with 105 11s mech. It would be more impressive and relevant to compare against 105/Ultegra Di2?
but anyway, very impressive weights. The group is actually lighter than Ultegra 12s Di2. I hope it is priced around 105 fdi2 pricepoint. At that price, I am willing to try it out.
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the most important thing is that it is reliable
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There have to be some patent infringement somewhere in this groupset.
Even the cable holddown on the rear derailleur is the same as with shimano. They even copied the details. The body of the front derailleur looks very much like shimano ...
I dunno man, Ltwoo is also looking very similar to Shimano and yet you can get it in Europe.
I really hope they will release this soon worldwide, would really like to try it out ... if the price would be competitive of course ;D
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You could have gotten it in europe if LTwoo actually made an effort to sell them. They just didn't give a shit about the few dealers that were interested so they all stopped trying.
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Its now available. Almost priced as the 105 di2
【淘宝】7天无理由退货 https://e.tb.cn/h.TOzXITMjLNcaRbo?tk=TtbxeVMCDHT HU006 「迈金 QED系列 超轻电子变速器 电变 公路自行车变速套件 一体夹器」
点击链接直接打开 或者 淘宝搜索直接打开
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410€ is significantly less than 105 di2
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410€ is significantly less than 105 di2
that is the rim brake version.
The disc version is very close to 105 di2 (electronic parts only)
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that is the rim brake version.
The disc version is very close to 105 di2 (electronic parts only)
how much is it then?
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how much is it then?
Disc brake "split caliper" is RMB 3799 = 524 USD
Disc brake "integrated caliper" is RMB 3999 = 552 USD
105 Di2 (electronic parts only) currently 660 USD + postage here:
https://aliexpress.com/item/1005005409319764.html
Edit: fixed typo for RMB integrated caliper price.
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Disc brake "split caliper" is RMB 3799 = 524 USD
Disc brake "integrated caliper" is RMB 3799 = 552 USD
That's a great price! Thanks for the info.
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Is that an auxilliary button marked on the inside?
(https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i3/181608481/O1CN01s2NQcI2CWM3xeJFfo_!!181608481.jpg)
That's definitely an auxilliary button. Hope they also have the ability to add satellite shifters in future.
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(https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i3/181608481/O1CN01s2NQcI2CWM3xeJFfo_!!181608481.jpg)
That's definitely an auxilliary button. Hope they also have the ability to add satellite shifters in future.
Isn't this position a bit weird? Doesn't when in aero-hoods or in the drops, and quite too easy to press by accident when the hands are in normal hoods position.
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Isn't this position a bit weird? Doesn't when in aero-hoods or in the drops, and quite too easy to press by accident when the hands are in normal hoods position.
I'd prefer this. Shimano one is inaccessible in the drops, and requires stretching even if you're just in the normal hoods position. This is easily accessible in both. Doesn't require much movement of the the thumb in aero hoods position either. Also, given the size of the button, it's possible that's a rocker ... if there were 4 inputs instead of 2 that'd be amazing.
Main drawback I can see is that they're stating 34T max (hopefully it will do at least 36T). Also in going the 'easier' wired battery option, rather than tedious wireless patent dodging, they've made the inevitable gravel version much more difficult / limited, or rendered road / gravel versions mutually incompatible re: derailleurs ... a problem Shimano can probably relate to.
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Main drawback I can see is that they're stating 34T max (hopefully it will do at least 36T).
36T should hopefully be easy. LTWOO says 32T and i cleared 36T with ease and plenty of space left.
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There doesn't seem to be any mention of FD 2x tooth gap spec. I'm hoping it'll do 16-17T.
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Can it do 11 speeds? or is 12 speed only?
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Can it do 11 speeds? or is 12 speed only?
10-12 afaik.
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where can you buy it? it doesn't even exist on their website ::)
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where can you buy it? it doesn't even exist on their website ::)
For sale on Taobao, should ship directly, or they do to Australia
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Would the software be region locked if bought through the tb link? If im not wrong it happened with their computers when brought out of china.
Otherwise this QED seems not too bad, weights pretty close to a ultegra set.
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I talked to them and they told me: "The Chinese version of the groupset needs to be paired and activated using the Chinese version of the OnelapFit app. However, the overseas phone numbers are not supported for registration in this version." So you need a Chinese phone number for it to work.
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The groupset is already being sold on Pardus bikes at a shop in Dubai.
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I talked to them and they told me: "The Chinese version of the groupset needs to be paired and activated using the Chinese version of the OnelapFit app. However, the overseas phone numbers are not supported for registration in this version." So you need a Chinese phone number for it to work.
Most likely because they'd never get into retail in most countries if they didn't, because the selling price is so low on Taobao. It's price discrimination.
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Anyone got any link on Taobao? I found one from the official Magene store, but it shows not in stock. Curious if they ship to US or maybe purchase through some of Taobao agent like Superbuy.
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The groupset is already being sold on Pardus bikes at a shop in Dubai.
Where? at wolfi?
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Anyone got any link on Taobao? I found one from the official Magene store, but it shows not in stock. Curious if they ship to US or maybe purchase through some of Taobao agent like Superbuy.
Here's the link: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=878332887095
Buying through a shipping agent really could be an option if there's a way to figure out the activation.
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sorry if i missed it but any word about the hose standard? BH90 with mineral? takes L05 pads?
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New pictures of the groupset :
https://www.instagram.com/p/DHO_wygJ95s/?igsh=N3J1ZDN6cDZjd2w3
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interesting to see that the team is receiving the groupset, but the general consumer cannot get it.
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Unboxing - https://www.douyin.com/search/magene%20qed?aid=91c54304-84de-43dd-85e1-951cef0a9d42&modal_id=7427831288519855394&type=general
Weight Comparison - https://www.douyin.com/search/magene%20qed?aid=91c54304-84de-43dd-85e1-951cef0a9d42&modal_id=7447781875470306560&type=general
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interesting to see that the team is receiving the groupset, but the general consumer cannot get it.
Let the pro test it before the consumer I guess?
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interesting to see that the team is receiving the groupset, but the general consumer cannot get it.
That's completely normal
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That's completely normal
And it’s actually a good thing. It shows that they don’t use the consumer as a beta tester for a full priced product like other manufacturers do.
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Well they did use the consumer for testing, just limited to china
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Unboxing - https://www.douyin.com/search/magene%20qed?aid=91c54304-84de-43dd-85e1-951cef0a9d42&modal_id=7427831288519855394&type=general
Weight Comparison - https://www.douyin.com/search/magene%20qed?aid=91c54304-84de-43dd-85e1-951cef0a9d42&modal_id=7447781875470306560&type=general
so many video on tik tok, looks snappy.
Hopefuly it will be released for the west soon.