Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: MickeF on March 11, 2017, 04:14:45 PM
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Hi,
I've just completed the build of my first full suspension bike: The Dengfu M06. And this is my first build thread!
(This is actually my second build: A few years ago I built myself a really great HT 29:er, the "Xmiplay IP-106", a great bike (and frame).)
Anyway, let's get to it!
Some numbers and parts:
Frame size: 17.5
Color: Pantone 431c, painted by Dengfu.
Fork: Fox Float 32 w. remote
Shock: Manitou McLeod
Gears: 11 sp Shimano XT, w. XTR shifter
Crank: XT single, 170mm, XTR Bottom Bracket
Chainring: AB Oval 34T 32T
Dropper: Brand-X ascend
Wheelset: (Used) Mavic CrossMax SLR. Stiff, light.
Tyres: (Used) RR on the back, NN in front.
Handlebar: Dengfu flat bar, with Dengfu 80mm stem
I ordered the frame February 18, and it shipped (after painting) Mars 2.
The frame arrived (I live in Sweden) just a few days later (!), mars 7. Quick!
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3831/33329795115_a25b97633b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SMeUTV)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3864/33329798205_fd47f157cc.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SMeVPc)
Also, the next days the rest of the parts needed for the build showed up! (I took some parts from the old bike, and the fork I bought six months ago!)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2823/33382939915_d3ce2a9ef7.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SRWhZz)
Time for some assembling...
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The frame looks fantastic! (If you ask me!) The color is just right. Great finish, I could never have done something similar with "rattle cans garage job".
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3889/33201861401_45f0b2766d.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SzWdEe)
Bottom bracket:
I decided to put some "carbon assembly paste" on the BB but - despite this picture - later put it in the frame instead, so it wouldn't come off during install.
For installation, I used a tool I bought on Ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272441441877?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649), but it's not that difficult do use a DIY tool (a couple of big washers and a long bolt and nut).
Video of me preparing it with paste, and using the tool to mount the right side bearing cup. Creeeeeeking noise! :o
(Klick image:)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/597/33439471816_588c068643.jpg) (http://tinyurl.com/m4xe6cl)
Crank:
Not to difficult: Just push it in, tighten "just enough" to preload the bearings. And use a good torque wrench to tighten the left crank to the axel.
Chainring:
I mounted the AbsoluteBlack Oval 34T, and it JUST cleared the chain stay! (Ca 5-6 mm). Great!
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2869/32535723863_4155f33c3f.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Rz56bg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/656/32535725423_705e646192.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Rz56Da)
Great. Let's move on to the rear wheel, cassette and shock...
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Cassette and Shock:
Nothing to complicated about installing the cassette, but I took the opportunity to change the bearings in my freehub (Mavic), but that's another story!
Oh, and I also installed the derailleur. No problem, just tighten with allen key. (I ordered an extra hanger from Dengfu, just in case...)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2906/32535733943_2431c44906.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Rz59b4)
Now on to the shock:
I ordered a pair of "Standard Bushings" from http://offsetbushings.com. Great service and communication! And the bushings look super nice. Very smooth!
Unfortunately I ordered a tad to short (22.0). Maybe 22.1 - 22.2 might have been better, but it's not a biggie. It's possible to tighten down that play. (I ordered the bushings before I got the frame, so I could start building straight away :) )
They (the guys at Offsetbushings) recommend replacing the DU bushing with their own in nylon, so I put together an really simple tool: Some washers, a IKEA screw with 15mm head (fits perfect to remove the bushing!) and one socket to act as distance.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2881/32540170904_23a185ebd2.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RzsT8o)
And then I mounted the shock:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/641/32535730143_0058384608.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Rz583x)
I had to tighten the shock bolts quite hard, and also shortened the rear one approximately 1 mm, since it was to long to give a "snug fit".
Next step: Fork.
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Fork and brakes:
The sun showed up, so why not move this project outside!
I shortened the fork steerer, but I kept it quite long, in case I need to adjust bar height later on. Better to cut it once again if needed.
Before I mounted the fork, I routed the gear wire and rear brake hose through the frame. Not that difficult, but it was easier with the fork not there, so I could guide it right with my fingers.
I also decided to put "Moto-style" brake setup: Front on right, rear on left (as they do it in England), since that's the best setup for the routing of cables in the frame. I guess it will take some time to get used to, but I also have a motorcycle, and it - of course - have front brake on right hand, so why not on my MTB?
Now it starts to look like a bike! Fork shortened, cables routed and rear brake mounted:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/728/32570592483_4f16c0cb89.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RC9Npn)
Ok. The brake hose and gear cable housing was laying tight against the frame under the bottom bracket. But when the suspension moved, the cables were scraping against the frame. Not good.
So I put some hot glue (!) in the openings to give the cables/suspension room to move freely.
Looks great, doesn't it?
Maybe not...
But it's alright. Almost no one will look under my bike! ;D
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/692/33339339856_44f4f71793.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SN5Qdq)
Time to cut the brake hoses and route them to the right handles. There's a really great video over at GMBN (http://tinyurl.com/jhwfbb6) of how to do that!
I used a small vise to hold the hose when mounting the barb and olive. Not that messy, but keep some paper or a rag nearby. It's not a great thing to get oil on your brakes...
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3695/33000154890_5251f7f949.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Sh7qkL)
Then I bled the brakes. Shimanos "funnel" makes it really easy. Just screw it on, put some oil in there and watch the bubbles come out as the oil replaces them. Neat.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3695/32540172334_0f43d62b66.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RzsTy3)
Ok. Brakes mounted.
Now it's time for gears!
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Gears, dropperpost:
I decided to go 1 x 11, since I like that on my HT. (Besides: It's not possible to put a front derailleur on the frame!)
11-42 combined with 34T (oval, that is), will be great!. Updated: 32 was better, still oval!
I also opted for a more advanced shifter: The XTR, since it's not that expensive upgrade, but of what I've red on the interwebz, it is quite a difference compared to XT. Time will tell!
Chain mounted as well. Shimano chain.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3771/33224405352_8239b8a185.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SBVLc3)
I also mounted the remote for the fork, a Fox CTD.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/620/33339353046_c94fe2923a.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SN5U8Q)
Dropper:
During this part I pretty much saw the finish line and was to excited to take any pictures! ::)
Routing the wire for the dropper post remote through the frame was a no-brainer. There's ready made route for droppers in the frame, and since I moved the dropper from my other bike it was a really quick job. The wire was already of correct length.
Also: I mounted a new saddle, the same model as I had on the old bike: A really affordable, comfortable and light Selle Italia Q-BIK Flow L2. Recommended! (270 gr)
The cockpit is now officially ready:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2879/33379961805_37bdb6059e.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SRF2GR)
As you can see, there's quite a lot of controls on the left. I will try this for a while, and maybe move the dropper to the right if it's to hard to reach the control.
But: Now there's nothing more to mount on the bike, so...
Time to have a look. And a first run! 8)
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Done!
Here it is, ready as it has never been before:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/653/33227153362_6c9d65c2a1.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/SCaR5w)
And from an angle, looks a bit cooler if you ask me ;)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/574/32537222444_aea1aca052.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RzcLDS)
It is a really nice feeling to get on the bike and go for the first ride!
It feels GREAT!
Weight: Just over 11 kg (11.260)
The locking of the shock and fork makes it feel almost like a HT. (The McLeod has 4 steps of locking, the Fox Float has 3.)
I have only tried it around the block and on may lawn... Tomorrow I will take it for a real test ride.
Exciting times ahead!
The pictures can be seen in an album here: https://flic.kr/s/aHskQzyWJk
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Nice build story. Thanks for sharing! Only the saddle is a bit bulky compared to the rest. I would consider trying sth. lighter. Doesn't have to pure carbon. Maybe one of these: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/GUB-full-3k-T800-carbon-fiber-super-light-weight-127g-bicycle-carbon-hollow-saddle-leather-saddle/32768889424.html
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Do you like the dropper post?
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Do you like the dropper post?
Yes, it's fine. But I've only had it for two months, used it on my HT as well (trasfered it to the new build).
So it's to early to say how it will do in the long run.
Bought it from http://www.chainreactioncycles.com.
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Great write up.
Looking forward to seeing how it handles the trails
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MickeF, the bike looks awesome. Can't wait enough for my parts to arrive. So in the end, you went with both 22.0 bushings? Did you measure actual eyelets, were they wider or narrower?
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I actually didn't measure the width before I ordered bushings...
I looked at the picture of in your thread (http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,1156.msg13243.html#msg13243) and thought that 22.0 should be good and if to long I could adjust them some. But: Of course it is better to measure before ordering bushings. But I wanted to start the build as soon as I got the frame :)
In retrospect: 22.2 would be my choice!
MickeF, the bike looks awesome. Can't wait enough for my parts to arrive. So in the end, you went with both 22.0 bushings? Did you measure actual eyelets, were they wider or narrower?
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This is a great build, great-looking bike.
Where did you get the idea of using paint scheme Pantone 431c?
How much did Dengfu charge you for the paint job?
Regards.
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This is a great build, great-looking bike.
Where did you get the idea of using paint scheme Pantone 431c?
How much did Dengfu charge you for the paint job?
Thank's!
I just like grey, bluish grey, and thought it could match the very very green fork.
(Dengfu let me choose from Pantone colors (http://www.pantone-colours.com/).
Cost for paint: $55. ($10 extra, since (I guess) it's not one of their standard colors.)
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So my thru axle has arrived, but without a lock nut. Mikael, did you use nut from other bike? Can you post a photo? I suppose it looks something like this (https://r2-bike.com/bilder/produkte/gross/SHIFT-UP-Mutter-M12-fuer-Shimano-E-Thru-Steckachse-12-x-142-mm.jpg).
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This bike looks like a well designed copy of the Yeti ASRc. Very similar in many ways, even down to the 22.2mm bushing width.
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So my thru axle has arrived, but without a lock nut. Mikael, did you use nut from other bike? Can you post a photo? I suppose it looks something like this (https://r2-bike.com/bilder/produkte/gross/SHIFT-UP-Mutter-M12-fuer-Shimano-E-Thru-Steckachse-12-x-142-mm.jpg).
Take care the thread may be different.
Between 1 and 2mm if I remember well.
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So my thru axle has arrived, but without a lock nut. Mikael, did you use nut from other bike? Can you post a photo? I suppose it looks something like this (https://r2-bike.com/bilder/produkte/gross/SHIFT-UP-Mutter-M12-fuer-Shimano-E-Thru-Steckachse-12-x-142-mm.jpg).
I ordered my axel from Dengfu, and it had a nut. Sorry, no pic :(
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Hi Micke
How tall are you and how is the fit for you 17,5"? I am in doubt if I should buy a 19" or the 21" (height 190cm)
Have you taken it for a "real" ride and how does it feel?
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I will ask for the "not-so-tall" group...
Height 1.70 cm, 17.5'' or 15.5''?
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You may have longer or shorter legs than someone else who has 170cm
Here is what I do when someone ask me for a build.
If you know your ideal saddle height. Good.
If not. Measure your inseam.
Multiply it by 0.883
This will be the length of the line between the crank axle and the top of your saddle.
Or any other method to get your saddle height as described here http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/how-to-get-your-seat-height-right-14608/
Report the saddle height directly on the geometry file, PDF or image.
I import the PDF or PNG, in Sketchup and scale it to the right dimension to draw on it directly.
Any other graphical tool familiar to you will do it.
This should give you something like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/wi0zRyE.png)
Then measure on the drawing:
- the horizontal distance between the end of the saddle and the bar: here 874mm
- the vertical distance between the saddle and the bar: 78.7mm
- the horizontal distance between the end of the saddle and the crank: 369.3mm
Compare all this with your current bike, or a bike you like.
You should quickly see if the 17" or the 15.5" is better
(1) and (2) are the most important.
You have some room to play with:
- The seatpost offset or moving the saddle forward/backward for (1) and (3)
- The stem length for (1)
- The stem angle, spacers or a riser bar for (2)
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Hi Micke
How tall are you and how is the fit for you 17,5"? I am in doubt if I should buy a 19" or the 21" (height 190cm)
Have you taken it for a "real" ride and how does it feel?
I'm 175 cm, and have the 17.5". And I opted for 170mm cranks.
Since the '06 is "similar" to the Scott Spark RC 900 WC, looking at Scotts size chart (https://www.scott-sports.com/us/en/products/249538007/SCOTT-Spark-RC-900-World-Cup-Bike#) might help! (click link "Find your size")
And yes, I have taken it for a (two, actually) "real" ride. So far I'm very pleased!
I set the sag to 20 %, tire pressure to 22 psi. It runs really well on rocky/rooty trails.
The McLeod seems to be a good shock (but I have nothing to compare with), and combined with the Fox Float (Fit4) there's not much of pedaling bob when running in trail-mode. When locked it feels almost like my HT. Disclaimer: This is my first FS! Still much to learn.
Is it fast? Two PB's and one KOM in Strava! So far...
(For those who don't know what Strava (the app) is, that means: it's a bike that can deliver speed...) :)
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You may have longer or shorter legs than someone else who has 170cm
Here is what I do when someone ask me for a build.
If you know your ideal saddle height. Good.
If not. Measure your inseam.
Multiply it by 0.883
This will be the length of the line between the crank axle and the top of your saddle.
Or any other method to get your saddle height as described here http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/article/how-to-get-your-seat-height-right-14608/
Thank you carbonazza, I will check this method. I have a 29'' inseam, so short legs, long torso. I usually fall towards the end of Small, beginning of Medium for most bike manufacturers. Checking Scott's sizing guide puts me on the same spot.
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Good to hear that you are satisfied Micke, and that it is pretty fast on the track. I have been riding a Chinese Carbon HT for three years and have been very satisfied. Would like something that is a bit more slack but still with lots of speed. Looks like the M06 frame could be the one. According to the Scott sizefinder I should go for an XL in the Spark 900RC. The XL is a little bit larger than the 21" M06 so that should suit me perfect.
Thanks for the inputs from the rest of you too
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That is one bright green fork!
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Hi Mickes,
Thank you so much for your post. It was a great help.
In case you're interested, here is the post on my new Deng-Fu M06. http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,1186.0.html (http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,1186.0.html)
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Cant seem to get my rear axle in place, is it really 142x12mm thru axle? (Not X12)
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Hello folks and nice build OP! Bike looks awesome and glad to hear you are breaking land speed records on it. hahaha
Are you or anyone willing to disclose how much you spent for the full build? Looks like you purchased a lot of new parts, which I would be doing myself as I don't have any used parts that I want to put on my build.
I run a Salsa Bucksaw now but would love to have a regular sized tire FS in my quiver. I'm just curious to know how much these Chinese builds are costing you folks from start to finish? I have good friend that used to be a bike mechanic in Moab so he can help with the build but want to know the cost. Any input you folks are wiling to share would be appreciated.
Thanks!
*** I'm aware it comes down to components but would like a cost of their build from someone just to get a baseline. I don't need top-of-the-line components but I would not be cheaping out if and when I do the build. Thanks again folks! ***
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Hi Mickes,
Thank you so much for your post. It was a great help.
In case you're interested, here is the post on my new Deng-Fu M06. http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,1186.0.html (http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,1186.0.html)
Glad to help!
Nice build you've got there! :)
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Hello folks and nice build OP! Bike looks awesome and glad to hear you are breaking land speed records on it. hahaha
Are you or anyone willing to disclose how much you spent for the full build? Looks like you purchased a lot of new parts, which I would be doing myself as I don't have any used parts that I want to put on my build.
I run a Salsa Bucksaw now but would love to have a regular sized tire FS in my quiver. I'm just curious to know how much these Chinese builds are costing you folks from start to finish? I have good friend that used to be a bike mechanic in Moab so he can help with the build but want to know the cost. Any input you folks are wiling to share would be appreciated.
Thanks!
*** I'm aware it comes down to components but would like a cost of their build from someone just to get a baseline. I don't need top-of-the-line components but I would not be cheaping out if and when I do the build. Thanks again folks! ***
Well, it IS the prices of components + frame and shipping. So your baseline varies depending on components.
Baseline: €2000 - €2200 + wheels
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Do you have a remote for your rear shock? Do you even need one?
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Do you have a remote for your rear shock? Do you even need one?
I don't have a remote, not sure I need one.
If I do get a remote, I'm aiming for something like the Scott Twinloc.
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After a few weeks riding this bike, how do you feel about it? Anything you would do differently? Still like it as much as after the first 2 rides?
Thanks!
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After a few weeks riding this bike, how do you feel about it? Anything you would do differently? Still like it as much as after the first 2 rides?
Thanks!
I like it (even more?) and the bike works just fine. I have put a riser handlebar (20 mm) and a shorter stem (60mm) to get more upright. Feels good.
Only problem so far:
Creaking BB. Maybe it was a bad idea to put carbon paste before mounting the BB. I will get, or make, a bearing retainer to remove the BB92, wipe clean and re-install the bb again. (Or get a new one).
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After a few weeks riding this bike, how do you feel about it? Anything you would do differently? Still like it as much as after the first 2 rides?
Thanks!
I like it (even more?) and the bike works just fine. I have put a riser handlebar (20 mm) and a shorter stem (60mm) to get more upright. Feels good.
Only problem so far:
Creaking BB. Maybe it was a bad idea to put carbon paste before mounting the BB. I will get, or make, a bearing retainer to remove the BB92, wipe clean and re-install the bb again. (Or get a new one).
You may have already checked, but the noise can come from something else than the BB.
The frame is like a drum, a headset, a pedal, etc. can cause a creak that looks to come from the BB.
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[/quote]
Only problem so far:
Creaking BB. Maybe it was a bad idea to put carbon paste before mounting the BB. I will get, or make, a bearing retainer to remove the BB92, wipe clean and re-install the bb again. (Or get a new one).
[/quote]
I just had a similar issue on my bike. I swore up and down it was the bottom bracket so i changed it only to discover the creaking was still there. (not a big deal because i upgraded the BB and it made a huge difference in smoothness and efficiency)
I diagnosed it as the way the chain was coming off of the RaceFace narrow wide single crank gear. I run a KMC chain and it was feeling pretty stiff so i took the chain off, soaked it for a day in a cleaning solution, rinsed it off, installed and lubricated it and voila, creaking is gone!!! It's amazing where some sounds come from ???
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I chased what I thought was a creaking BB for weeks. I rebuilt it a half dozen times. I was CERTAIN in was the BB; all the signs were there. I was cursing BB30 right and left wondering if I made a mistake
It turns out it was actually the replaceable dropouts in the frame and the aluminum axle/hub in the aluminum drop outs. I greased in between the frame and dropouts and then between the hub and the dropouts and all was fixed. Silent.
If I clean the bike really well and put the rear wheel in without grease, the creak/groan will come back back.
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I chased what I thought was a creaking BB for weeks. I rebuilt it a half dozen times. I was CERTAIN in was the BB; all the signs were there. I was cursing BB30 right and left wondering if I made a mistake
It turns out it was actually the replaceable dropouts in the frame and the aluminum axle/hub in the aluminum drop outs. I greased in between the frame and dropouts and then between the hub and the dropouts and all was fixed. Silent.
If I clean the bike really well and put the rear wheel in without grease, the creak/groan will come back back.
It seems it was the rear axel that wasn't tight enough!
I had a (small) crash and the handle on the rear axel took a hit (and so did my elbow and knee :) ) and got more tension / tighter.
Anyway, I think that may have solve the problem, because now: silent ;D
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Update: The frame is still working just fine! No issues at all after just under 3500 km of riding in various conditions. Single tracks, steep climbing and descents.
Really like the geometry and balance.
No creaks or other issues. *knock on wood.
Pic from Åhus, Sweden
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1797/44029255142_7a4409afca_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2a5HrAE)
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It seems it was the rear axel that wasn't tight enough!
I had a (small) crash and the handle on the rear axel took a hit (and so did my elbow and knee :) ) and got more tension / tighter.
Anyway, I think that may have solve the problem, because now: silent! ;D
I went to a DT Swiss RWS axle and it really stabilized the entire rear triangle of the bike! I can get the wheel mounting as tight as I need to and still remove the wheel on the trail if needed. Yes, it's a couple of grams heavier but well worth the weight!!!