Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: charlesrg on March 21, 2017, 10:08:27 PM
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I just found this: http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/html_Products/Mountain_Frame/29ER_Mountain_Frame/2017/0302/480.html
It looks like modern geometry and new style of shock.
Trying to find more geometry info and will share with you guys.
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Looks like a nice frame.
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Please move this to 29er topic. I post here by mistake.
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Subscribed
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I've got the geometry. The chainstay and head angle look great.
I think this is better than the LCFS104 because the rear brake caliper is mounted on the chainstay. The LCFS104 has the issue that the seatstay will flex and braking while going over bumps might be problematic.
I'm trying to find more info on internal cable routing.
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I'd like to see clearance for a 29+ tire 8), a bit more slack in the HTA, mabye 68 or 67.5 deg, chainstays aren't bad but I'd also like to see those a little shorter but not a deal breaker.
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It looks like they are using the same photos on this bike (same site) and saying that this one is 29+
http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/html_Products/Mountain_Frame/650B_29ER_Plus_Frame/2017/0322/481.html
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I'd like to see clearance for a 29+ tire 8), a bit more slack in the HTA, mabye 68 or 67.5 deg, chainstays aren't bad but I'd also like to see those a little shorter but not a deal breaker.
Chainstay at 435mm, I haven't seen shorter 29er FS bikes.
I'm hoping for a lighweight mean XC racing machine. No need for Plus tires on my side. I'm neutral about boost. So hoping that they are bringing both up with small changes, could be FM058 and FM078 similar to Spark 700 and 900.
I've requested more info and details on axle, travel, bb type. Should get more info for tomorrow. I have the communication lag and that they can't publish all the info on their website to avoid questions going back and forth.
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If it is like the spark 900/700 Plus, it will be very interesting if a 29x2.8 or 3.0 tire will fit. There wasn't room for a 29x3 in the Spark 700 Plus.
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I'm curious, why do you guys like Plus tires on XC bikes ? Wouldn't it be better to use a Enduro bike with Plus tires ?
I haven't seen people racing XC on plus tires and winning races.
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Good looking frame. Too bad they don't build one up so we actually know what it would look like as a complete.
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I'm curious, why do you guys like Plus tires on XC bikes ? Wouldn't it be better to use a Enduro bike with Plus tires ?
I haven't seen people racing XC on plus tires and winning races.
If one of these frames is like the Scott Spark 700 Plus, its geometry is more of a trail bike. I have a Stache with 29x3 tires and i don't think anyone would like racing on those guys.
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Good looking frame. Too bad they don't build one up so we actually know what it would look like as a complete.
If they get back to me quickly with information I should have one built soon. So far I've too many tech details to cover before ordering it.
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If they get back to me quickly with information I should have one built soon. So far I've too many tech details to cover before ordering it.
Def looking forward to seeing a build log with one of these frames. I'm really liking it... from the geometry to the aesthetics/lines of the frame.. pretty much perfect imo. Is it just me or are these chiner designs becoming more "refined"?
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You will need the perfect seatpost lenght according to the seat tube design, this could be problematic with droppers.
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The FM058 has an axle to crown of 500mm. My Fox 32 100mm is 500.9. If this frame is 142...it could be a winner.
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You will need the perfect seatpost lenght according to the seat tube design, this could be problematic with droppers.
The seat tube reminds me of the Trek Fuel EX.
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HongFu got back to me today. Some updates:
1. suspension travel:100mm
2. the length of shock absorber:190mm (no specs on shock mount and type)
3. fork travel:100-110mm
4. Rear Brake Rotor Size:160mm
5. Rear axle will have 142x12 and 148x12 options. (According to them you will be able to select during the order).
They don't have my size 21" in stock and are promising to ship mid june.
They are currently producing size 17.5" that can be shipped soon (soon in Chinese terms).
This thing geometry could definitely be an update from the old IP036, but they have to ensure proper linkage and proper fiber lineup for the chainstay as it will flex.
I can't wait and I'm not going to be a guinea pig of a Chinese CEO and not going to order this thing until it has been proven to work. It sounds like they are very much on the initial process of putting things together. Very different from a reputable brand that actually develops, tests and announces after.
Some big brands have different strengths for different frame sizes, so the small is lighter and the big is heavier but also stronger. That concerns me as I already broke two IP036.
Perhaps someone lightweight want to try the 17.5 size and see how it goes.
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I already broke two IP036.
Wow :o ... Could you elaborate on this? How did it happen?
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HongFu got back to me today. Some updates:
1. suspension travel:100mm
2. the length of shock absorber:190mm (no specs on shock mount and type)
3. fork travel:100-110mm
4. Rear Brake Rotor Size:160mm
5. Rear axle will have 142x12 and 148x12 options. (According to them you will be able to select during the order).
They don't have my size 21" in stock and are promising to ship mid june.
They are currently producing size 17.5" that can be shipped soon (soon in Chinese terms).
This thing geometry could definitely be an update from the old IP036, but they have to ensure proper linkage and proper fiber lineup for the chainstay as it will flex.
I can't wait and I'm not going to be a guinea pig of a Chinese CEO and not going to order this thing until it has been proven to work. It sounds like they are very much on the initial process of putting things together. Very different from a reputable brand that actually develops, tests and announces after.
Some big brands have different strengths for different frame sizes, so the small is lighter and the big is heavier but also stronger. That concerns me as I already broke two IP036.
Perhaps someone lightweight want to try the 17.5 size and see how it goes.
Thanks for gathering the info.
Yeah man...not sure you want to be the guinea pig on a new frame. I think this is what the frame makers do. Look at Light Bicycles. They get tons of feedback from customers that buy their rims. I honestly don't think that any of the people that make these frames ride a mountain bike...unless they are commuting to and from work...so they rely on the feedback of the people that buy their frames. I've met some of vendors at Interbike. I don't think they ride. I even met Peter...real nice guy. If you look at the 056 and 062...the manufacturers have been making running changes as time goes on...undoubtedly because of the info or frame failures from customers. That's why I mentioned to let Miracle know that the routing on the rear brake hose sucks. If its brought to their attention...and they go back and look at it and realizes that it does indeed suck...it totally possible that they'll look into changing the way its routed. These guys are the ones making the frames or have direct day to day contact with the people that make the frame. :)
There were two frames that interested me a lot..and now there are three...but I don't want to be a tester that pays full price.
Maybe what they should do is put some kind of bulletin out a few months before they release a frame...and that they'll offer a frame at their cost for actual riders that can put the frame through the ringer. Provide feedback and based on that...make changes to the frame. I think this is their biggest disadvantage is not having real riders using the frames before release to the public. You can only do so much in a controlled environment with computers and mechanical rigs.
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If it is like the spark 900/700 Plus, it will be very interesting if a 29x2.8 or 3.0 tire will fit. There wasn't room for a 29x3 in the Spark 700 Plus.
There are two frames floating around out there.
This one seems to be a 900 RC copy.
In my thread about 120mm frames, there is a bike from XMcarbonspeed linked in it. It is almost an exact copy of the non-RC 900/700 Plus.
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I just ordered the cs-fs27 in 17.5. Wish me luck! ;)
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I just ordered the cs-fs27 in 17.5. Wish me luck! ;)
The world is a better place because of pioneers like you :P You're definitely going to have a nice toy.
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I just ordered the cs-fs27 in 17.5. Wish me luck! ;)
The world is a better place because of pioneers like you :P You're definitely going to have a nice toy.
My bad, I thought you ordered the FM058 in 17.5 as Hong Fu said they could ship it. I think it cover some issues of the FS27. But anyway, not a bad choice.
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I just ordered the cs-fs27 in 17.5. Wish me luck! ;)
The world is a better place because of pioneers like you :P You're definitely going to have a nice toy.
My bad, I thought you ordered the FM058 in 17.5 as Hong Fu said they could ship it. I think it cover some issues of the FS27. But anyway, not a bad choice.
The fs27 is getting a slight redesign which will slow delivery. Im ok with the timing, whatever it takes.
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What is the redesign?
Moving the rear brake to the CS and changing the routing?
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I just asked him. He says it's only the rear linkage.
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My bad, I thought you ordered the FM058 in 17.5 as Hong Fu said they could ship it. I think it cover some issues of the FS27. But anyway, not a bad choice.
Hey guys I just kinda stumbled upon the Chinese Carbon thing while looking for a plus frame. I think I'm going to go for one of the Scott copies when they're available in 19". Can anyone tell me what the difference is between the FM058 and the FS27? Is there a vendor who is more likely to have the most up to date version?
As far as the design goes that cable routing is terrible. But I don't get the concern with the caliper mounting location? Am I wrong in thinking since its a single pivot the seat stay and chain stay are technically the same link?
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FM058
HongFu got back to me today. Some updates:
1. suspension travel:100mm
2. the length of shock absorber:190mm (no specs on shock mount and type)
3. fork travel:100-110mm
4. Rear Brake Rotor Size:160mm
5. Rear axle will have 142x12 and 148x12 options. (According to them you will be able to select during the order).
FS27
122mm rear travel
130mm fromt travel
Boost rear only
66.9 degree head tube angle vs i think 71 on the hong fu
165mm shock
The fs27 is more of a trail bike vs an xc bike with the fm058
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Wondering what the latest FM058 frame price is and what rear shocks available fit it. I'm not in the immediate market for one, but my 100mm rear travel carbon 29er is getting long in the tooth.
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Shoot them an email. They are quick to respond.
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The fs27 is more of a trail bike vs an xc bike with the fm058
Thanks for the breakdown. Any idea when the fs27 will be available in 19"?
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Received info quickly from Hong Fu. The 19" is slated for midmonth release at the earliest. With shipping and purchasing a high quality rear shock the total price delivered to US is pretty darn good. But I, like many others, don't want to be an early adopter/guinea pig. Part of me thinks looking for a similar geometry new in box closeout frame from a US-based company with warranty and easy customer service/returns may be a good option to consider. And it's always good to have options which the Hong Fu certainly is!
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Thanks Dank. I thought some members were already sold on the fs27. I was pretty sold myself. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I've got from this awesome forum is:
1) there has not been a good trail bike out of China. By good I mean modern geo and quality suspension kinematics.
2) there have been some reliable fun hard tails.
3) there have been some catastrophic failures (mostly road bikes?)
4) there have been some unique offerings, mostly of the plus and fat variety.
5) most of the fs bikes have had significantly lower quality suspension hardware and stiffness compared to the brand names.
I know you get what you pay for. It seems like the value is in the high quality hard tails and roadbikes. But if the fs27 and fm058 are identical in performance to the '17 spark plus and race models with close to the same weight and durability then at 1/3 the price (including shock) they are a great value! My biggest holdup is : is it safe? I like to get rowdy and definitely plan to hit jumps with it. Have any of the Chinese bike been proven to take all mountain level abuse?
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I have a CS-036 wth carbon rims from peter and I don't have any issues with suspension flex. I know other people have had it, but neither me or my friends can feel anything. This could be a lack of knowledge, but I'm pretty sure I just got a good product. In terms of all mountain use, I'd say I've whipped this bike pretty hard a number of times. Last summer when I was in Copper Harbor Michigan riding their trails I didn't hesitate to take this on one of their most difficult trails. It's actually a downhill track, but I passed up on doing 2 of the features. I'd say that if you're not an idiot when you use your bike, the 036 is passable and fun to use on the whole mountain. If your launching to flat landings, it's going to stress the bike and your body a lot. Just for comparison, my friend rides a 2017 remedy 8 and aside from the grumblings about shorter suspension travel distance, he had a blast on the 036. We both ripped it pretty hard. I think it's up to you. The 036 isn't designed to be an enduro bike. It's designed mostly for rough cross country use. I'm not much of an aggressive enduro rider, so it works out great for me. But every once and a while when I decide to ride some extra rough stuff, this bike has made it through.
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Thanks Dank. I thought some members were already sold on the fs27.
I should have been more specific. I inquired about the FM058 29er frame which has not been released yet in a 19" size.
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Thanks Dank. I thought some members were already sold on the fs27. I was pretty sold myself. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I've got from this awesome forum is:
1) there has not been a good trail bike out of China. By good I mean modern geo and quality suspension kinematics.
2) there have been some reliable fun hard tails.
3) there have been some catastrophic failures (mostly road bikes?)
4) there have been some unique offerings, mostly of the plus and fat variety.
5) most of the fs bikes have had significantly lower quality suspension hardware and stiffness compared to the brand names.
I know you get what you pay for. It seems like the value is in the high quality hard tails and roadbikes. But if the fs27 and fm058 are identical in performance to the '17 spark plus and race models with close to the same weight and durability then at 1/3 the price (including shock) they are a great value! My biggest holdup is : is it safe? I like to get rowdy and definitely plan to hit jumps with it. Have any of the Chinese bike been proven to take all mountain level abuse?
Please don't buy either FS27 or FM058 thinking you're getting a Scott frame for a 1/4 of the price because you're not. It's not going to be as light neither as strong. The linkages are not the same quality and durability either.
Example: Scott frame weight 1770 grams with shock. China frame weights 1950 without shocks. Scott and high quality brands use high quality Carbon Fiber properly laid for stiffness and strength on the right places.
Buy because you want something cheap that you don't care if it breaks and you ended up having to replacing it out of your pocket.
I own three China frames, have broken the IP-036 in two places so far and I already have my M06 on order. I finished my first build in 2014, with my usage I estimate life expectancy of up to 2 years. I run an XL frame, weight 190lbs and enjoy going fast on the rocky descends. I race about 15 times per year.
I've seen brand frames break. And some brand frames also have similar quality to China Frames.
I enjoy my China frames because I can ride careless about damaging the bike. Scuffs and Marks are stories to tell and not things to hide. I always ride like I stole it.
If I had the funds I would definitely get a Scott or Trek frame. Perhaps next year on a good team deal.
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Much appreciated Charlesrg!
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Thanks for the honesty Charlesrj. I'm glad you and midwest have enjoyed your FS bikes. I think the most prudent bike for me to pursue is a plus hardtail for light trail use.
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Looks like Lamere is selling a version of this frame. About a third of the way down the page.
https://www.lamerecycles.com/deals
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Looks like Lamere is selling a version of this frame. About a third of the way down the page.
https://www.lamerecycles.com/deals
That is exactly same CS-FS27 frame :)
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Looks like Lamere is selling a version of this frame. About a third of the way down the page.
https://www.lamerecycles.com/deals
That is exactly same CS-FS27 frame :)
They fit a 2.35. That means the minion ss is going in the rear of mine.
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That is exactly same CS-FS27 frame :)
Are you changing the rear brake mount location as previously suggested?
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@peterxu have you been able to get the fs27 rear brake cable routing and caliper mounting locations fixed?
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Is the head angle on the FM058 69 degrees or more like the 67 degrees of the miraclebikes and yishun versions?
Thx!