Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: charlesrg on April 26, 2017, 09:20:11 PM
-
New frame just arrived. I will post the build progress here as I go through.
So far the frame arrived and it weights 2070grams.
It will run XX1 on SID XX fork and XT brakes. I'm moving the components from my 036 cracked frame.
-
I'm moving the components from my 036 cracked frame.
What happened to your 036 exactly?
-
Ooooo i'm very interested in this build. I have been eyeing one of these frames up for a while now. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on how it rides when you're finished.
-
I'm moving the components from my 036 cracked frame.
What happened to your 036 exactly?
First I broke the left seatstay. I replaced it and done another 200 miles on it. Now I've a crack on the junction of the top tube and seat tube. So to replace that it will be major work. Instead of getting another 036 I decided to get this M06 as I thought to be better.
So far I'm very happy with the M06. The hardware junctions are better, I imagine it will have much less play.
-
Ok, build is complete. I will be changing the seatpost next week but that's all it's missing. Weights 24.6lbs complete including pedals.
Wheels are All Mountain Carbon hookless 35mm wide. Tires are Maxxis Ikon 2.35
Highlights XX1 on Eagle cranks
I can easily make this bike weight 23lbs by changing the XT brakes to XTR and putting my XC wheels on it.
I didn't ride it yet. 3 things to note. Frame Rear wheel axle space is too wide, it's definitely out of spec, should be 142 but its like 146, for a moment I thought the shipped me a boost rear triangle.
The Rear wheel play is much less than the IP036. The play on the IP036 is pretty big, but I still won races with it. It really didn't affected my ride.
The bike geometry is really slack.
Will post more after riding this weekend.
-
Bike looks good 8).
Is there a way you can measure the head tube angle? I'd be using a 100mm fork too.
-
Bike looks good 8).
Is there a way you can measure the head tube angle? I'd be using a 100mm fork too.
The drawings show a 68.5 head angle. Better follow the drawings as my measurements without proper tools will be worst.
-
I've done a test ride and I can compare it to ip036 and IP057.
Geometry makes it more nimble and better to climb. The BB drop is low and I still need to get used to it. In my first turn I already scrapped the crank.
When comparing to the 057 the bike just climbs better even with the added weight. 24 vs 21
Now comparing to the 036 I feel the bike is much lower and aggressive. At the same time with a slacker head angle I feel it would be harder to go over the bars.
The hardware and finish details of this frame is also much better. The pivots are better and the bike has no play up/down. The rear sideways play is also much less than the 036. Feels much more solid.
Definitely an upgrade from the 036.
Only issues so far is the rear axle space is out of spec and I feel I got a wrong batch. This is causing me ghost shifts when I apply high torque on pedals.
Questions please let me know.
-
The more you ride the better you'll like it. I also have the rear spacing out a few mm and at first had a bit of ghost shifting but i tracked it down to the full cable where it goes under the the BB at first i had zip ties around the cables to stop rubbing on the BB.
I replaced inner and outer cable and ran a piece of plastic tubing over the cable in a arch where it passes from the main frame to rear so it can move freely with the suspension and it now has crisp gear change.
I tried 100 forks at first then went to 120m fox 34s seems to really suit the frame for me ......loving his bike so far.
-
When comparing to the 057 the bike just climbs better even with the added weight. 24 vs 21
Questions please let me know.
So, i have an 057 as well and it climbs very well. You feel the M06 climbs even better? That would mean the pedaling efficiency is really good! Do you feel any pedal bob under load?
-
I tried 100 forks at first then went to 120m fox 34s seems to really suit the frame for me ......loving his bike so far.
I'm looking at this frame as well and was going to build it with a 120mm fork. Do you feel it makes the bike feel more enduro like or is it just as quick and nimble as a xc bike? I would like the bike to still be quick and nimble but also want to take advantage of a little more travel and slightly slacker geometry. Yes, i want my cake and eat it too ;D
-
The more you ride the better you'll like it. I also have the rear spacing out a few mm and at first had a bit of ghost shifting but i tracked it down to the full cable where it goes under the the BB at first i had zip ties around the cables to stop rubbing on the BB.
I replaced inner and outer cable and ran a piece of plastic tubing over the cable in a arch where it passes from the main frame to rear so it can move freely with the suspension and it now has crisp gear change.
I tried 100 forks at first then went to 120m fox 34s seems to really suit the frame for me ......loving his bike so far.
Thank you for the suggestion on the cables. I left a good slack down there. Do you have a picture of your BB cabling ? Curious about the plastic piece.
The bike really does climb well. Better than my 057 hardtail. And when compared to the 036 the slack in the front is a plus to avoid going over the bars.
-
When comparing to the 057 the bike just climbs better even with the added weight. 24 vs 21
Questions please let me know.
So, i have an 057 as well and it climbs very well. You feel the M06 climbs even better? That would mean the pedaling efficiency is really good! Do you feel any pedal bob under load?
When you compare efficiency would you sacrifice a bit on bobbing versus grip? The m06 has a very short chainstay, shorter than the 057. When climbing almost all your weight gets applied on the rear for you to move forward and before slipping the suspension moves. Specially on roots and rocks. The 057 might climb well in the road but on the trail I'm with the M06.
The 057 gives too much tire slippage due to longer chainstay and lack of suspension.
-
The 036 is often speced at 110-120mm of rear travel. Do you feel any difference with the 100mm of the M06 or it seems to have the same amount of travel as the 036?
-
I tried 100 forks at first then went to 120m fox 34s seems to really suit the frame for me ......loving his bike so far.
I'm looking at this frame as well and was going to build it with a 120mm fork. Do you feel it makes the bike feel more enduro like or is it just as quick and nimble as a xc bike? I would like the bike to still be quick and nimble but also want to take advantage of a little more travel and slightly slacker geometry. Yes, i want my cake and eat it too ;D
Depending how hardcore you want to go on Enduro. Usually enduro guys 120mm or more. I would put this bike more on the XC category.
I'm going to race XC on it, may try an enduro however I don't think it's a bike to win enduro races. At least in my area the enduros are very rocky and have some downhill sections that 100mm won't really do at the speed required to win.
By the way, I'm running 2.35 tires on it without rub, I think that's as wide as it would take.
-
The 036 is often speced at 110-120mm of rear travel. Do you feel any difference with the 100mm of the M06 or it seems to have the same amount of travel as the 036?
My IP036 was running on 100mm. The travel on this is the same. The bike is lower to the ground but travel is same. The big difference here is climbing and reduced the rear wheel play.
-
By the way, I'm running 2.35 tires on it without rub, I think that's as wide as it would take.
Are the Ikon 2.35 true to size?
My IP036 was running on 100mm. The travel on this is the same. The bike is lower to the ground but travel is same. The big difference here is climbing and reduced the rear wheel play.
I'm running X-King 2.4 on my 036 (they are true to size) and sometimes when I corner really hard the rear end flex so much that the tire rub on the chainstays. So if the rear of the M06 is stiffer, it's good news.
-
By the way, I'm running 2.35 tires on it without rub, I think that's as wide as it would take.
Are the Ikon 2.35 true to size?
My IP036 was running on 100mm. The travel on this is the same. The bike is lower to the ground but travel is same. The big difference here is climbing and reduced the rear wheel play.
I'm running X-King 2.4 on my 036 (they are true to size) and sometimes when I corner really hard the rear end flex so much that the tire rub on the chainstays. So if the rear of the M06 is stiffer, it's good news.
I think the 036 has larger tire clearance than M06. I will measure take the measurements to ensure it's accurate. I was running 2.35 on the 036 as well with no rub. Keep in mind wheel width also plays a big role on how wide the tire will set.
-
By the way, while ordering I asked Melody about the bottle cage, and she said not to worry. So I tried to fit a bottle in and the results are in the pictures.
This are my smallest bottles. So no chance using this with a top loader bottle cage. They do work on a side loader but only the small bottles.
I think the bottle cage holes should have been made lower. Sometimes this kinda of failure makes me wonder if they actually ridden any of this frames before started selling.
-
I think the bottle cage holes should have been made lower.
Definitely this, my backwards mounted shock barely clears the bottle. Maybe you should try lower sitting cage or a zip tie, like what Steven did.
-
I think the bottle cage holes should have been made lower.
Definitely this, my backwards mounted shock barely clears the bottle. Maybe you should try lower sitting cage or a zip tie, like what Steven did.
My solution was to put a side loader bottle cage. That allows for small bottles to fit.
-
Did my third race on the bike. Issues with pedals hitting the ground on turns are starting to become an issue. In my last race twice I ended up unclipped on a turn due to pedal hitting rocks.
The bobbing of the frame is also becoming a bit of a pain. I'm planning on recording it with a gopro to see how much it interferes during climbs.
-
Do you think the bobbing would still be an issue with a platform mode on the rear shock instead of your fully open / locked out one?
-
Do you think the bobbing would still be an issue with a platform mode on the rear shock instead of your fully open / locked out one?
I'm not sure what do you mean with platform mode. Rockshox has Lock/Unlock and the lock is not 100% lock. I guess if I had a fox shock I could put on 100% lock that would help. However I think bobbing has to do with the pivot points and geometry of the articulations. Design also influences anti-squat and anti-rise.
-
With platform mode, I mean the "Trail" mode of fox, the "Pedal" mode of Rockshox or "Drive" mode of DT Swiss to name a few. The drive mode of my DT Swiss X313 shock reduce bobing on my IP-036 to nearly zero.
-
Farewell my dear M06 frame. Today while racing the frame just broke in half. There was no Crash. I was still able to finish the race but I won't be racing on it again.
It lasted 13 months however I didn't use during the winter. Not sure if I should buy a brand frame or replace this.
This is my third chiner I broke.
So far I broke an 036 rear triangle another 036 seat tube and now the top tube. None of them crashing.
-
Farewell my dear M06 frame. Today while racing the frame just broke in half. There was no Crash. I was still able to finish the race but I won't be racing on it again.
It lasted 13 months however I didn't use during the winter. Not sure if I should buy a brand frame or replace this.
This is my third chiner I broke.
So far I broke an 036 rear triangle another 036 seat tube and now the top tube. None of them crashing.
Damn. If you don't mind me asking, how much do you weigh?
-
wow, I know it sucks to have a frame break like that, but to be able to walk away from a break is always good. Will a brand frame survive your racing any better -- who knows??
-
I weight between 185 and 190, yesterday I was at 190.
I finished the race riding it. As I was going through some ruts I heard a big BANG, and thought was the seat that moved, however when I finished the race I noticed the extra suspension linkage that was just created.
Brand frame would have definitely be replaced at no charge with an extra sorry from the manufacturer. I'm trying to see if seller will accept the warranty as there was no crash. They advertise 2 years, this was 13 months.
-
some brands don't cover racing in their warranties. Not considered normal use or some such rubbish. Hope your claim goes well.
-
some brands don't cover racing in their warranties. Not considered normal use or some such rubbish. Hope your claim goes well.
Haven't seen brands saying that warranty don't cover racing, if any brand did that I would not buy from them. Specially for XC or CX bikes that are race machines.
-
Haven't seen brands saying that warranty don't cover racing, if any brand did that I would not buy from them. Specially for XC or CX bikes that are race machines.
Yes, its always good to ask to see the warranty before buying.
Think it's just wrong to build and sell a bike that is clearly for racing on, but then exclude the bike from warranty for racing it.
I wouldn't want to list any manufacturers here, but if you did a google search on "warranty excludes bicycles used for competition", you can see lots of examples of this going on in the small print, etc...
I've never known anyone to have a warranty claim refused because of this, but then I don't know many people who race, and have had to make a claim.
-
Haven't seen brands saying that warranty don't cover racing, if any brand did that I would not buy from them. Specially for XC or CX bikes that are race machines.
Yes, its always good to ask to see the warranty before buying.
Think it's just wrong to build and sell a bike that is clearly for racing on, but then exclude the bike from warranty for racing it.
I wouldn't want to list any manufacturers here, but if you did a google search on "warranty excludes bicycles used for competition", you can see lots of examples of this going on in the small print, etc...
I've never known anyone to have a warranty claim refused because of this, but then I don't know many people who race, and have had to make a claim.
I googled it and I could not find much beyond a brand called Orange that gives 1 year warranty on racing and this thread. Don't think any brand would harm themselves by excluding racers from their warranty, racers are some of the top ambassadors for the sport.
-
So far I'm getting no response on my e-mails to request warranty. I'm getting a feeling that the seller will try to just walk away.
With brand frames with warranty available in the market for $1500 including shocks, it will be hard to justify buying a chiner frame with no warranty or reputation.
-
I googled it and I could not find much beyond a brand called Orange that gives 1 year warranty on racing and this thread. Don't think any brand would harm themselves by excluding racers from their warranty, racers are some of the top ambassadors for the sport.
OK, here is one for example, Giant is a fairly well known brand, but this is from their USA terms and conditions....
5. Exclusions. THE ABOVE WARRANTY, OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY, DOES NOT COVER NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR. ALL WARRANTIES ARE VOID IF THE BICYCLE IS MODIFIED FROM ITS ORIGINAL CONDITION OR THE BICYCLE IS USED FOR OTHER THAN NORMAL ACTIVITIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, FAILING TO FOLLOW THE OWNER’S MANUAL OR USING THE BICYCLE FOR COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES OR IN COMPETITIVE EVENTS, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO BICYCLE RACING, BICYCLE MOTORCROSS RACING, STUNT RIDING, RAMP JUMPING OR SIMILAR ACTIVITIES, AND TRAINING FOR SUCH ACTIVITIES OR EVENTS.
Like you said before, when I read things like this, it makes me look elsewhere for a bike. This exclusion may not get used much, but knowing my luck it would happen to me.
All besides the point really, as you are trying to get support on your frame. They should at least respond to your emails. I am guessing they responded to you fairly quickly when you made queries on purchasing.
-
Why say you were racing ??? ?
If you hit the frame, ok it is on you.
But if there is a structural flaw that shows up after a few months of racing, instead of a couple of years of normal use, it is the same.
There was a flaw anyway.
Some very interesting videos on youtube about carbon parts, look for: luescher teknik
-
I googled it and I could not find much beyond a brand called Orange that gives 1 year warranty on racing and this thread. Don't think any brand would harm themselves by excluding racers from their warranty, racers are some of the top ambassadors for the sport.
OK, here is one for example, Giant is a fairly well known brand, but this is from their USA terms and conditions....
5. Exclusions. THE ABOVE WARRANTY, OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY, DOES NOT COVER NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR. ALL WARRANTIES ARE VOID IF THE BICYCLE IS MODIFIED FROM ITS ORIGINAL CONDITION OR THE BICYCLE IS USED FOR OTHER THAN NORMAL ACTIVITIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, FAILING TO FOLLOW THE OWNER’S MANUAL OR USING THE BICYCLE FOR COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES OR IN COMPETITIVE EVENTS, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO BICYCLE RACING, BICYCLE MOTORCROSS RACING, STUNT RIDING, RAMP JUMPING OR SIMILAR ACTIVITIES, AND TRAINING FOR SUCH ACTIVITIES OR EVENTS.
Like you said before, when I read things like this, it makes me look elsewhere for a bike. This exclusion may not get used much, but knowing my luck it would happen to me.
All besides the point really, as you are trying to get support on your frame. They should at least respond to your emails. I am guessing they responded to you fairly quickly when you made queries on purchasing.
Great you shared that. I definitely look at Giant differently now. It will be good trail talk topic if I catch a friend training on a Giant bike.
-
Curious to know what your new frame will be. I'm now on a Ican S8 for 500km's and it is performing well (no races). I only had to replace the shock bolts as they didn't fit the purpose (got bended). The weight for an Ican S8 XL frame (20,5") is 2300gram and in my opinion these additional grams are a contribution to the frame strength. I'm 98kg geared up.
-
I googled it and I could not find much beyond a brand called Orange that gives 1 year warranty on racing and this thread. Don't think any brand would harm themselves by excluding racers from their warranty, racers are some of the top ambassadors for the sport.
OK, here is one for example, Giant is a fairly well known brand, but this is from their USA terms and conditions....
5. Exclusions. THE ABOVE WARRANTY, OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY, DOES NOT COVER NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR. ALL WARRANTIES ARE VOID IF THE BICYCLE IS MODIFIED FROM ITS ORIGINAL CONDITION OR THE BICYCLE IS USED FOR OTHER THAN NORMAL ACTIVITIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, FAILING TO FOLLOW THE OWNER’S MANUAL OR USING THE BICYCLE FOR COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES OR IN COMPETITIVE EVENTS, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO BICYCLE RACING, BICYCLE MOTORCROSS RACING, STUNT RIDING, RAMP JUMPING OR SIMILAR ACTIVITIES, AND TRAINING FOR SUCH ACTIVITIES OR EVENTS.
Like you said before, when I read things like this, it makes me look elsewhere for a bike. This exclusion may not get used much, but knowing my luck it would happen to me.
All besides the point really, as you are trying to get support on your frame. They should at least respond to your emails. I am guessing they responded to you fairly quickly when you made queries on purchasing.
Great you shared that. I definitely look at Giant differently now. It will be good trail talk topic if I catch a friend training on a Giant bike.
My giant Trance and Reign both had a sticker on the handlebars saying this bike is designed for competition. I assume that disclaimer is for the lower end bikes.
-
I googled it and I could not find much beyond a brand called Orange that gives 1 year warranty on racing and this thread. Don't think any brand would harm themselves by excluding racers from their warranty, racers are some of the top ambassadors for the sport.
OK, here is one for example, Giant is a fairly well known brand, but this is from their USA terms and conditions....
5. Exclusions. THE ABOVE WARRANTY, OR ANY IMPLIED WARRANTY, DOES NOT COVER NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR. ALL WARRANTIES ARE VOID IF THE BICYCLE IS MODIFIED FROM ITS ORIGINAL CONDITION OR THE BICYCLE IS USED FOR OTHER THAN NORMAL ACTIVITIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, FAILING TO FOLLOW THE OWNER’S MANUAL OR USING THE BICYCLE FOR COMMERCIAL ACTIVITIES OR IN COMPETITIVE EVENTS, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO BICYCLE RACING, BICYCLE MOTORCROSS RACING, STUNT RIDING, RAMP JUMPING OR SIMILAR ACTIVITIES, AND TRAINING FOR SUCH ACTIVITIES OR EVENTS.
Like you said before, when I read things like this, it makes me look elsewhere for a bike. This exclusion may not get used much, but knowing my luck it would happen to me.
All besides the point really, as you are trying to get support on your frame. They should at least respond to your emails. I am guessing they responded to you fairly quickly when you made queries on purchasing.
Great you shared that. I definitely look at Giant differently now. It will be good trail talk topic if I catch a friend training on a Giant bike.
My giant Trance and Reign both had a sticker on the handlebars saying this bike is designed for competition. I assume that disclaimer is for the lower end bikes.
Their website does not state that. Sticker vs policy I think policy take priority. It's a big bummer, but avoidable, I would not buy a Giant based on their policies.
-
This is why I didn't want to mention any specific brand names. I am sure there are many people who have had nothing but the best experiences with Giant warranty.
To be fair, they are not the only one's to specifically mention racing. While most others use a more generic term of "normal use". Who's definition of normal use though???
The other lovely t&c exclusion you see a lot is something along the lines of ... "This warranty is void if the bicycle was not properly assembled by an authorised xxxx dealer."
Now, I can see why they have this, why should the brand be responsible for some ham fisted home mechanic breaking the frame during build, then try and claim it was defective.
But... there have been lots of people with cracked carbon seat/top tubes. Were all these results of frame defects? or results of bike build, etc? If you know you didn't cause the issue, but the brand thinks you did, it can cause problems with a warranty experience.
As you said in another post, at least with a brand bike, you can walk into an authorised shop and talk with someone. They are most likely to help you out, especially if you purchased from them in the first place. While a chiner frame manufacturer may ignore your emails as is what is happening now. Hard to beat a LBS on those points.
Those Yeti frame looks super cool btw. Wishing I could afford one.