Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: Vipassana on June 20, 2014, 05:14:16 PM
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Hello. This is my first post here, however, I've been lurking this forum for a while now gathering information on all things related to Chinese carbon.
I am an avid cyclist and have started racing in the past year and a half. Mainly fast, dry, single track and fire road based endurance courses. I am currently training with two of my coworkers for the 104 mile Barn Burner race in Flagstaff, AZ in September. This race is part of the Leadville qualifying series. With a little (OK, a LOT) of luck I might complete the race and win a spot to try Leadville.
I'm currently riding a 2011 Giant Anthem X2 29er FS. Both of my coworkers/teammates are riding 2013 Specialized Camber Comps. All of these bikes have been great bikes, but they are on the heavier side of things at 28-31 lbs. The wheels are a lot of the weight and the rear suspension frame doesn't help. We've decided to sell these bikes and build some light weight race machines. With a little luck (and some dollars), we'll have our new bikes ready to ride in August, in time for Barn Burner.
As you can see in the title, we are all going to start with the IP-256SL. I hope this thread will be interesting to the community because we will be building three bikes at the same time. So far, the builds are VERY similar, but I suspect they may deviate from one another as the build progresses.
We have been working closely with Peter at IPlay and so far, he has been a pleasure to work with. Extremely responsive with good communication skills. He has been very understanding of our endless questions. Last night, we pulled the trigger on the IPlay order and send a very large sum over to Peter. Now we wait for the results. Here is what we ordered:
3 x IP-256SL Frame - 19"
3 x N-SS IP-HR930C Wheelset
3 x IP-SP7 Seatpost
3 x IP-B04 Handlebar
3 x FSA Headset
1 x IP-ST1 Stem
2 x IP-BC5 Bottle Cage
4 x IP-BC6 Bottle Cage
1 x IP-FK052 Fork
On two of the frames, paint was ordered. The third was left naked; I think my coworker has something neat up his sleeve for that one.
Now we wait for the parts to start arriving. I will post a plenty of pictures of each part and of the build process as the progress. Hopefully this will help to increase the knowledge of the community.
:)
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Here is the list of planned components and weights I have compiled for my build. I'm certain some of the weights will be different, but this should be a good ball part. I generally don't want to be a weight weenie, but that is the theme for this particular build given the bike's purpose. I'd be very happy for anything under 21 lbs and ecstatic for anything under 20.
With suspension fork:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/29vews5.png)
With rigid carbon fork:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/16a19ow.png)
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Your weights seem accurate, your build with the suspension fork should be under 20 lbs, and your rigid fork should save about 2 lbs more. I'm sure you will be happy with the build. If you have not ridden a bike with XT brakes and a SRAM XX1 or X01 drivetrain, you will fall in love the new bikes.
One suggestion, when you get your wheels, check your spoke tension. The tension on my wheels seems low but I am about to send an email to Peter and ask what the spec is.
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That second build with the rigid fork is exactly, and I do mean exactly the bike I'm planning to build - from the tyres to the Ritchey grips, that's my planned build (hopefully by winter, which sucks but whatever).. I want it to basically look like the one below, which apparently a lot of people seem to like that color scheme - think I can do without the red hubs though:
(http://i.imgur.com/QcKfEfL.jpg)
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Nice.. Def looking forward to seeing a pic of a fleet of Chiners!
And yeah.. That burnt orange and black paint scheme is def one of my favs too.
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I received shipping notification for all of the components and one frame from Peter on Monday! The other two frames are being painted this week and will then be shipped out.
We contacted Peter to ask about spare drop-out/hangar sets and the chain-suck guard. We realized we overlooked these parts and will try to get them shipped out with the remaining two frames.
Next step is to start ordering the other parts. I'm excited. And nervous!
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I'll be following this thread closely, I'm looking at a 256 for myself.
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I've been delinquent in updating this thread. Parts have started to arrive from iplay and elsewhere. We have received one frame IP-256 frame, and many of the smaller carbon parts like bars and posts. The wheels were shipped last week and should arrive late this week or early next. The two frames getting paint will ship this week.
Here are some pictures:
The contents of the first iplay shipment:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_171841.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_171841.jpg.html)
A shot of the various cockpit parts:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_184416.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_184416.jpg.html)
Weights:
IP-256SL Frame (19", BB30, No axle, but w/ dropouts) - 1070g:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_190951.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_190951.jpg.html)
IP-ST1 Stem - 143g:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_184316.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_184316.jpg.html)
"FSA" Headset - 117g
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_184116.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_184116.jpg.html)
Rear Thru-axle - 74g:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_184030.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_184030.jpg.html)
Front Thru-axle - 83g:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_184010.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_184010.jpg.html)
IP-BC6 Gottle Cage - 22g:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_183950.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_183950.jpg.html)
IP-BC5 Gottle Cage - 27g:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_183935.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_183935.jpg.html)
IP-SP7 Seat Post - 180g:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_183749.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_183749.jpg.html)
IP-B04 Straight Handlebar - 130g:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_183654.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_183654.jpg.html)
IPlay Seatpost Collar - 19g:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_183616.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_183616.jpg.html)
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A note about the two different water bottle cage styles we ordered, the IP-BC5 and IP-BC6. I installed the two IP-BC6 cages I bought on my road bike for a century ride this past weekend. Everything bolted up fine and the bottles fit perfectly in the cages. They are snug, but not difficult to get the bottles in or out of. HOWEVER, when I pick up my road bike and bounce it, the bottles, when full, seem relatively "loose". I couldn't get one to fall out of the cage, but I could see it perhaps occurring on a rugged downhill section on the mountain bike. Longer bottles seem "top heavy" in the IP-BC6 due to the lack of restraint near the middle/neck of the bottle.
I repeated the test with the IP-BC5 cages my buddy chose and the bottles were MUCH tighter. Additionally, I like that this cage has a bit of a lead-in the seems to guide the bottle in with less looking at the cage (IE riding off-road). I think the IP-BC5 is better suited for rough riding than the IP-BC6. But this is speculation as I've taken neither on the trail yet to know definitively. I can say that the IP-BC6 is lighter by ~5g (nothing, really) and they held up fantastically on my century ride. They will stay on my road bike. I've already talked to Peter, and four more IP-BC5 cages are on their way!
I should note that the cages are around half the weight of my trusty aluminum cages I've been using for years on the road bike. Not a huge amount of weight, but impressive none-the-less.
Here is a closer crop of the two styles. IP-BC5 on the bottom and IP-BC6 on the top.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/58076a8a-de94-4bd2-95f9-573cd085cb62.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/58076a8a-de94-4bd2-95f9-573cd085cb62.jpg.html)
Trusty aluminum holders:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/IMG_20140717_223741.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/IMG_20140717_223741.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/IMG_20140717_223727.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/IMG_20140717_223727.jpg.html)
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Here are some more pictures of the first frame:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_190938.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_190938.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191027.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191027.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191042.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191042.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191051.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191051.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191106.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191106.jpg.html)
UD Matte in a camera flash:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191118.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191118.jpg.html)
For whatever reason, the finish looks very blotchy and uneven when the camera flash goes off. But the frame is, in actuality, very smooth and even to the touch. In normal lighting it looks very subdued.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191130.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191130.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191438.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191438.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191452.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191452.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191505.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191505.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191516.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191516.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191527.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191527.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191545.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_191545.jpg.html)
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And here is a couple of teasers of the other, non-iplay components arriving...
X01 Groupset x 3!
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/download_20140721_223023.jpeg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/download_20140721_223023.jpeg.html)
Want to see a picture of my big, girthy, crank... ?
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/download_20140721_223028.jpeg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/download_20140721_223028.jpeg.html)
Not bad, huh? :P
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:o It's Christmas! And I'm the jealous younger brother, lol. Exciting to have all of that affordable chiner goodness arrive, I bet.
Awesome thread, doing three builds at once. Will def be following along.
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For whatever reason, the finish looks very blotchy and uneven when the camera flash goes off. But the frame is, in actuality, very smooth and even to the touch. In normal lighting it looks very subdued.
Yep.. Very difficult to take good shots of the UD Matte finish. I tried all different kinds of lighting.. My pics still sucked.
Very in-depth update.. Thanks.
And no offense, but all of a sudden I don't feel bad for you at all for coming so close to winning the rim giveaway :P ;D
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:o It's Christmas! And I'm the jealous younger brother, lol. Exciting to have all of that affordable chiner goodness arrive, I bet.
Awesome thread, doing three builds at once. Will def be following along.
If you're in Arizona, you're welcome to come over and play with my new toys.
Yep.. Very difficult to take good shots of the UD Matte finish. I tried all different kinds of lighting.. My pics still sucked.
Very in-depth update.. Thanks.
And no offense, but all of a sudden I don't feel bad for you at all for coming so close to winning the rim giveaway :P ;D
Yeah, Patrick C will put those rims to good use. I probably wouldn't even have time to research what the heck to build them up with if I had won them.
Also, my wife sent me this picture today:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/download_20140722_091242.jpeg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/download_20140722_091242.jpeg.html)
This should be the wheel sets and spare drop outs. This is going to be a long day at work!
On a side note, these two packages left China early last week. FAST.
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If you're in Arizona, you're welcome to come over and play with my new toys.
Hahaha... And if was in Arizona I absolutely would! Pumped to see the wheels. Def living vicariously through you right about now!
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(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/60022025/download_20140722_091242.jpeg)
Have you got a Fat Bike build in pipeline too ? ;D
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Ha! Yeah, that would be one hell of a Fat bike.
That's actually a center lock OZ rim from an F1 car. Actually, maybe not F1, more like junior F1. I found it on Craigslist and was going to make a coffee table out of it some day.
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Well after what seemed like the longest day ever at work, I was able to get home and see what Peter had sent me. Wheels!
As with everything we've ordered, there were 3 sets of nearly identically built wheels. The only difference was hub/nipple color. We have two sets in red and a single set in black.
All sets are built as follows:
N-SS IP-HR930C Wheelset
- IP-HR930C - Carbon, hookless rim
- Novatec D771SB Front Hub
- Novatec D772SB Rear Hub
- Sapim Delta spokes
- Sapim SILS nipples
This is the profile of this rim:
(http://www.xmiplay.com/Upload/images/hookless%20IP-HR930C(1).jpg)
The weight listed on iPlay's website is perhaps a bit optimistic at 1525g. The three sets I have in my hands averaged exactly 700g (front) and 890g (rear). The range on the three front wheels was 3 grams. The range on the rear wheels was 10 grams. Not bad at all.
So why such a W I D E wheel for an ultra-light XC machine? Well, a variety of reasons. Traditional XC rims have an inner width of 19-23mm. These rims are 26mm, In the past two years, the industry has been moving towards wider rims across the board, from DH to XC. And a lot of this has to do with the advent of tubeless tires. A wider rim has several advantages:
- Allows sidewalls of tire to stay more "vertical", offering more support while cornering, even at lower pressures. As the two beads more further apart, the tire is more supported in the rim rather than pivoting on the rim when the beads are close.
- Allows a smaller width tire to perform as a wider tire. This allows the use of a smaller tire casing for weight savings which can easily offset the small increase in rim width. For example, a 2.2" tire might act as a 2.35" equivalent.
- Increase wheel stiffness.
- Large reduction in "burbing" of the tubeless tire on the rim at lower pressures.
- Increase traction and comfort from reduced pressure needed.
Or at least this is the theory. I will see how this plays out in practice. Perhaps it is all marketing, but it does make good sense on paper, so I suspect there is some truth to it. The above reasons aside, I am looking forward to the reduction in rotational weight over my previous wheelset (~2100-2200g!) and a huge increase in robustness and stiffness over my previous alloy wheels. Opting for a more traditional width rim would have yielded a decrease in weight (marginal), but I suspect the benefits of the increased width will offset the ~100g total per wheelset penalty.
We also decided to try hookless rims on this build as well. Many of the industry players have started to convert to hookless on carbon. Again, there must be a good reason? Well there is. Hookless beads allow for an easier/cheaper to manufacture rim. The rim edge also gets more continuous carbon fibers so it is stronger against impacts than the older hook design.
One last note before the pictures. These wheels were packaged with the utmost care. They were carefully wrapped with protective caps to prevent the axles from damaging rims/spokes on neighbor wheels. The cardboard boxes they were shipped in has custom inserts to hold the wheels in place and fixed relative to one another. My kudos to iPlay.
Rear:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_165344.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_165344.jpg.html)
Front:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_165349.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_165349.jpg.html)
Front weight:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_165503.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_165503.jpg.html)
Rear weight:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_165538.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_165538.jpg.html)
The UD matte finish has some neat patterns in the right lighting. Subtle but neat.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_192814.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_192814.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_220832.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_220832.jpg.html)
Outer width (you can see the hookless profile here):
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_221034.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_221034.jpg.html)
Inner width:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_220956.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_220956.jpg.html)
Rear hub in red:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_221203.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_221203.jpg.html)
Front hub in black:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_220811.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_220811.jpg.html)
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Those are really good weights for such wide rimmed wheels. What are your initial impressions of the Novatech hubs so far? I'm currently trying to decide whether to go with the Novatech or some Bike Hub Store hubs.
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Those are really good weights for such wide rimmed wheels. What are your initial impressions of the Novatech hubs so far? I'm currently trying to decide whether to go with the Novatech or some Bike Hub Store hubs.
Initial impression is good. Except I wanted white hubs instead of black. But they were not offered. The rear cassette feels a bit tight/sticky, but it spins very smoothly. I really can't say for sure until I start riding on them if they are quality or not.
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Forks showed up.
I opted for black, but the white looks really sharp in person. I'm regretting black now...
SIDs:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/download_20140723_152857.jpeg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/download_20140723_152857.jpeg.html)
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I think the black will look better.
The white will become the focal point unless you add graphics or something(which should be the focal), soooo....I see your bike and start looking at the fork because it is jumps out being white.
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Both forks look good, I like that you opted for the lockouts as well. Never thought much about having a remote lockout until I got on on my FS 29er, now having the ability to lockout the suspension on climbs is really nice.
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With the wheels came some spare drop outs and chain suck protectors:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_210905.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_210905.jpg.html)
Weights:
Protector - 7g
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_212211.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_212211.jpg.html)
Drop out 1 - 21g
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_212222.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_212222.jpg.html)
Drop out 2 - 30g
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_212232.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140722_212232.jpg.html)
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Very nice ! Nice to see the builds.
Can you create a short video of the sound of the Novatec rear hub ?
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Very nice ! Nice to see the builds.
Can you create a short video of the sound of the Novatec rear hub ?
If it's not asking too much I would really like to hear these hubs, as well.
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Sure thing, guys. I can probably make a video tonight for you. I need to go for a training ride first. 8)
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You may look at this also:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Il-RlBCRyw
Title: Fm028 Carbon Clincher Novatec Hub Sound
any other hubs that you want to hear?
known hubs by members: dtswiss, BHS, funsomething
May create another post for that.
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My Bitex hub sounds similar, only a little more busy as it a 6-pawl hub while the Novatec is only 4-pawls. The smoothest, best sounding hub in my opinion is still the DT Swiss hubs with the star ratchet system that is on my XR1450 Spline wheels.
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My Bitex hub sounds similar, only a little more busy as it a 6-pawl hub while the Novatec is only 4-pawls. The smoothest, best sounding hub in my opinion is still the DT Swiss hubs with the star ratchet system that is on my XR1450 Spline wheels.
So how to have wheel built with DT Swiss hubs? You have to buy them and send them to your chindor or they stock them and build them all in-house?
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Here are a couple of sound tests. These probably are not the best due to the whole camera phone thing as well as this being an empty wheel (tires tend to muffler the sound or at least change it). The black hub is slightly quieter than the red hubs for no apparent reason.
Novatec D772SB Hub Demonstration - Red:
http://youtu.be/3hPaZ5lKzHE
Novatec D772SB Hub Demonstration - Black:
http://youtu.be/z4MkrwvACNg
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Nothing exciting, but a few more parts arrived:
Race Face crank boots - 15g. A must for carbon cracks in my opinion.(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140724_172958.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140724_172958.jpg.html)
Shimano 180mm IceTech Rotor w/ Hardware - 147g (137g Rotor, 15g Hardware)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140724_173101.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140724_173101.jpg.html)
ESI Chunky 32mm Grips (Silicone Foam) - 63g
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140724_172652.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140724_172652.jpg.html)
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If you wanted DT Swiss hubs you would either need to purchase the hubs and send them to China, or you purchase just the carbon rims from China, and have a local wheel builder assemble everything for you, if you have a good wheel builder locally. I would probably do the latter, if/when I build up another set of carbon wheels.
With my first set of carbon wheels from XMIplay, I ordered them with the Bitex 401F/R hubs and XX1 (XD) free hub. They did a nice job of building the wheels although spoke tension on the rear wheel was a bit low. I will most likely have the LBS bring up the tension on the rear wheels since I do not have a truing station.
Higher spoke tension makes for a stronger, stiffer wheel, but a little more harshness to the ride. I will be doing the same thing for my XR1450 rear wheel, the LBS who built that wheel (after I had to replace the original rim) also used way too low of spoke tension, the DT Swiss wheel needs to be reworked so it will be much stronger and stiffer. Funny that I measured low spoke tension on both my rear wheels, one from the China vendor and the other build up by a LBS. I've done research and I am confident the spoke tension, particularly on the non-drive side, should be greater than what I have measured, which is nearly zero on a Park Tools spoke tensiometer.
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Here are a couple of sound tests. These probably are not the best due to the whole camera phone thing as well as this being an empty wheel (tires tend to muffler the sound or at least change it). The black hub is slightly quieter than the red hubs for no apparent reason.
Thanks for doing that. Much quieter than my Sun Ringle hubs, it seems.
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XMIplay has wheelsets available with DT Swiss 240s hubs
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XMIplay has wheelsets available with DT Swiss 240s hubs
That would be my choice!
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XMIplay has wheelsets available with DT Swiss 240s hubs
I wish Peter had told me that... Dang.
Oh well. I'm sure they would have cost more. And I'm already throwing way too much money at this project. I still haven't told my wife that I'm going to keep my old bike after all, after promising to sell it to fund this project. ;D
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for 800.00(for set) - are the DT 240's all that?
even at 400.00+(for set) - are the DT 350's all that?
Do you further have to pay for the 36 p.o.e. ring - or is that only for the 350's?
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Looking on eBay, you can get a set of DT Swiss 240 hubs for less than $600, 350 hubs for less then $300. Yes, I would say they are worth it if you want a good, reliable, lightweight hub. The 350's are definitely a good value.
As for the 36 pts of engagement, I personally don't see any advantage to it in a DT Swiss hub, the standard star ratchet does a fine job already. For my riding I doubt I would be able to notice a difference.
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Personally, I say the 350 hubs are worth the price, but at least for me, the 240 series isn't.
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I used Jenson for pricing....what does Peter charge?
On POE: you may want the 36 - sounds like a bee....no, a killer bee: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_ex4rfKTSs
If one had the 36, would it be more drag and less desirable?
My questioning here was that one could get a whole carbon wheel set from iplay or ? for same price as ebay 240s
Since the 350s are the low end, made in taiwan shell, would they not be equal to novatec or bitex but with less poe than both?
It would be interesting to compare the 350s to above.....a spin test side by side?
Vispana: have you had a lot of problem with pedal strikes or specifically, bashing your crank arms?
Where did you buy the crank boots from?
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I don't have a huge problem with rock strikes on the crank arms, but it has certainly happened from time to time. The boots were about $9 a pair, available is a ton of colors, and are made by Race Face. I bought them on eBay, but many online vendors carry them as well.
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I added crank arm protectors after many rides and few ... eww that might of done damage incidents.
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It was Christmas again today! The second and third frames with paint arrived from iPlay. Unfortunately, they forgot the carbon fork. But we already talked to Peter and he is shipping it immediately. He responded to the email in about 20 minutes! The frames were packaged extremely well and the box was without any damage!
I can only show you my frame. I have not unwrapped the second one as I will let my coworker do the honors.
I went with a paint scheme based on the Gulf Oil race colors. I've always been a motorsports fan and have always loved the Gulf Oil color scheme on the GT-40's and later Porsches. I saw this theme on a Chiner 650b bike. I feel pretty bad for ripping off the paint scheme this genius came up with, but it just looked so nice. (If you're reading this, sorry!) :-[ Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? If I ever meet him on the trail, I'll gladly buy him a beer. :D
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203158.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203158.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203441.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203441.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203211.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203211.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203204.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203204.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203204.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203204.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203456.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203456.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203508.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203508.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203519.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203519.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203422.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_203422.jpg.html)
The fork is painted to match the style and color of the rear triangle.
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The brakes arrived today as well. They were coming from England.
What I came home to. That's doesn't look good...
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_204230.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_204230.jpg.html)
Yup, this isn't going to be pretty:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_204356.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_204356.jpg.html)
Awesome:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_204443.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_204443.jpg.html)
Thanks, FedEx. Apparently they kicked it from England to my house. It was wet too. Like soaked to the point the cardboard was disolving. Perhaps they threw it in the ocean in England and fished it out of the water when it arrived in New York. ::)
Amazingly the contents were fine! Except for two of the owner's manuals that were non-salvageable. Luckily, there were 6 sets of brakes in the order so their are plenty of extra manuals.
Qty: 6 M785 XT piston/caliper sets (3 front, 3 rear)
Qty: 3 160mm RT86 Icetech rotors (for rear)
Qty: 3 160mm to 180mm adapters (for front)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212120.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212120.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212131.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212131.jpg.html)
JDM, yo.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212322.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212322.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212353.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212353.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212420.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212420.jpg.html)
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We also ordered 4 more IP-BC5 bottle cages from Peter as were weren't convinced that the IP-BC6's would be robust enough for mountain biking. They work great on my roan bike though. Peter only had the IP-BC5 in 3K matte in stock. So we took those. They look great.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212443.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212443.jpg.html)
Trusty RaRa SS's arrived too. I compared a million different tires in a million sizes and shapes. I finally just gave up and went with the tire it seems everyone is riding and raving about. They are entirely too expensive though for the Snakeskin version. I was not pleased with the pricing. I did really like the speed of the ones I demo rode. But those were the non-snakeskin version. ::)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_211500.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_211500.jpg.html)
Now for some weights:
3K matte weighs the same at the UD black. - 27g
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_211429.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_211429.jpg.html)
Schwable is lying about hese weights. A lot. ::) I feel cheated for the price of these things. - 646g and 650g
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_211538.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_211538.jpg.html)
Claimed weight of 605g... yeah...
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_211507.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_211507.jpg.html)
Shimano 160mm to 180mm post mount adaptor w/ hardware - 37g
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212550.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212550.jpg.html)
Shimano RT86 160mm rotor w/o hardware - 112g (127g w/ hardware)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212731.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212731.jpg.html)
Shimano XT M785 Caliper and Lever Set (w/ uncut hose and fluid) - 307g
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212910.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140728_212910.jpg.html)
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Very nice Vipassana! Thanks for posting all those great pictures. I like the Gulf Livery paint colors.
I've never seen Shimano brakes in anything other than Shimano packaging, like CRC buys in bulk and packages the brake components themselves. Either way, you will like the XT brakes, they are solid and reliable. Remember, on the lever you can push the pin to open the bar clamp all the way, saves you from sliding the lever onto the handlebar.
When I built my IP-057, I also went with the Racing Ralph, not the Snakeskin version. I felt I spent too much money for a tire that wouldn't seal easily tubeless with Stans, yes they were light but the sidewalls were too thin and were easily punctured. When they did hold air they rolled well. I had to put extra Stans sealant in so that negated the weight savings. The tread also wore out quicker than any other tire I'd used. Never going to waste my money on RR's again.
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Oh man, those frames look awesome. Love the stripe apint schemes - especially the light blue.
As for the brakes, I ordered some from CRC before and they were packaged exactly as yours were. Pretty common for them to send the wrong type of Shimano olives so you might want to make sure they got that right in all six sets.
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Very nice Vipassana! Thanks for posting all those great pictures. I like the Gulf Livery paint colors.
I've never seen Shimano brakes in anything other than Shimano packaging, like CRC buys in bulk and packages the brake components themselves. Either way, you will like the XT brakes, they are solid and reliable. Remember, on the lever you can push the pin to open the bar clamp all the way, saves you from sliding the lever onto the handlebar.
When I built my IP-057, I also went with the Racing Ralph, not the Snakeskin version. I felt I spent too much money for a tire that wouldn't seal easily tubeless with Stans, yes they were light but the sidewalls were too thin and were easily punctured. When they did hold air they rolled well. I had to put extra Stans sealant in so that negated the weight savings. The tread also wore out quicker than any other tire I'd used. Never going to waste my money on RR's again.
Thank you for the compliment and thanks for the tip on the XT levers. I was actually surprised to see the parts in their third party packaging as well. Not a big deal at all. Especially for the price CRC sells them for.
We'll see how the RaRa's run. I really liked the set I demo'd, but that was only a quick 16 mile test. I was hoping my buddies would choose some other brands/designs so we could compare them, but they both reported to me this morning that they ordered RaRa's. :-\ I really wanted to see the Icons among others. Since we all have the same wheelset and drivetrains swapping wheels to test the tires would have been easy and fun. Maybe next time. I tend to get a lot of life out of tires, but maybe next season we can branch out.
Oh man, those frames look awesome. Love the stripe apint schemes - especially the light blue.
As for the brakes, I ordered some from CRC before and they were packaged exactly as yours were. Pretty common for them to send the wrong type of Shimano olives so you might want to make sure they got that right in all six sets.
Thank you! I actually REALLY like the blue and wouldn't mind if the whole bike was that color. But the orange pops. I found a guy on eBay who makes custom fork decals to mimic the OEM decals for RockShox and Fox, but in whatever color you want. He's local to me so I might roll over and see if he can match the blue and make me some SID decals.
I actually ordered 3 pairs (6 pieces) of the OEM Shimano inserts and olives. Cost me like $20. Only to find out each brake set came with a spare! Oh well, I'll let them in the classified here if I have any extras left.
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A couple more items arrived today: Crank Brothers Candy 3 pedals and carbon stem spacers.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140729_192942.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140729_192942.jpg.html)
I have a set of Eggbeater 3's on my road bike and they are decently light (~278g). I was going to get another set for the new MTB, but went with the Candy 3's instead at ~317g. The difference between the two is that the Candy's have a small cage on them. I figured it was nice to have a pair of each style (platform and non-platform). I can swap them as I see fit.
They are on the heavy side, but I traded in my 7 year old plastic Candies for these that were completely shot (after thousands and thousands of miles). (Crankbros is running an upgrade deal where you send in your old pedals and can upgrade to any pedal in their lineup for 50% off, which is maybe a bit less than eBay pricing). I will probably spring for a set of eBay Titanium spindles for the Candy set one of these days. That will shave 40-60g.
The level 1 and 2 pedals are much cheaper and only a bit heavier, but they have bushings instead of bearings. The bushings are what failed in my last Candy set after the dust caps fell out. The level 3's have dual bearings and a threaded dust cap to keep things clean. The level 11's are titanium goodness, but at stupid expensive.
Crank Brothers Candy 3 - ~317g
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140729_193014.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140729_193014.jpg.html)
I also ordered some UD carbon spacers on eBay. They look good, weigh nothing, and were inexpensive. They are gloss. Gloss UD is hot.
UD Carbon 1.125" spacers (5pcs) - ~24g
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140729_193101.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140729_193101.jpg.html)
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Could you share the eBay link for the carbon spacers? They look like those we make, but we don't sell these items on eBay.
We usually make 2/5/10/15/20mm
We do sell some to customers who usually order small items from us, maybe they resell them on eBay
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Could you share the eBay link for the carbon spacers? They look like those we make, but we don't sell these items on eBay.
We usually make 2/5/10/15/20mm
We do sell some to customers who usually order small items from us, maybe they resell them on eBay
Hello Peter! I should have thought to ask you if you had these spacers. I honestly didn't think of it. I prefer to buy from you as possible. Those sizes you listed are exactly what this set is.
Here is the link: http://m.ebay.com/itm/151090881902?txnId=1115070119005
The seller is named Gobike88 and they are shipping out of Taipei.
Thank you again for all your help with our order. I have recommended you to several friends and coworkers already.
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I am surprised you went with the XT brakes - since you look to be concerned with weight.
The new XTR M987 would have saved you nearly 200g over the XT
Also, you won't need all those carbon spacers....you could slam your stem or have a spacer under and the cap on top - only using one of your spacers.
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I am also a fan of Eggbeater pedals, have three sets of Eggbeater 3's, one on each of my bike plus a spare set. I've tried the Candy pedals and didn't really see any point in having the platform. The platform just gets in the way of clipping in as easily, add weight, and with non-clip in shoe, the spring sticks up causing the pedal not to be flat. So, I just stick with the original Eggbeaters.
The Eggbeater is simple, light, and easy to maintain. Clipping in and out is easier than the SPD pedals I tried years ago, although I hear the Shimano SPD pedals have been improved.
I would have also liked to hear your comparison on tires if you guys had ordered different brands but I let us know how the RaRa work for you. The Snakeskin version should not be so flimsy, like the ones I had.
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I am surprised you went with the XT brakes - since you look to be concerned with weight.
The new XTR M987 would have saved you nearly 200g over the XT
Also, you won't need all those carbon spacers....you could slam your stem or have a spacer under and the cap on top - only using one of your spacers.
XT or XTR came down to cost. I would have loved XTR, buy they appear to be double the price of the XT. I know there's a lot of money wrapped up in this build, and what's a couple hundred more, but we needed to stick to some sort of budget. There's always the possibility to upgrade in the future! We are concerned with weight, but it isn't the sole criteria driving this build. It is fun to track it though and count those grams. We like to joke about all the ridiculous things we will do to save weight:
Cut our nails short before the ride.
Shave all body hair.
Remove paint from all parts.
Carry no water bottles.
Carry only a $20 bill and buy tubes/tools on the trailside if you need them.
Fill our tires with helium... Or hydrogen!
The silly like gets longer by the day. :)
Concerning the spacers, I agree, I may not need them. But then again I might. Best to have them on hand for the build just in case. It was $17 for 15 spacers (3 sets). Cheap enough. The ones that don't get used can find their way into our road bikes. But spacers allow us the ability to keep the steerer somewhat long and ride for a while to figure out fit.
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I have some significant updates for you!
All of the rest of the frames and components arrived last week and we were able to build our bikes this weekend. Basically we spent all day Saturday building the bikes while we drank beer and ate Pizza. Despite it being hot in the garage, it was a great day with friends!
Here is one of the other IP-256SL frames. This one is 19", BB30, painted a very subtle gloss black & matte black combination. The paint was done at iPlay and looks very good.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140730_181145.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140730_181145.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140730_181154.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140730_181154.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140730_181321.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140730_181321.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140730_181638.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140730_181638.jpg.html)
My other buddy chose to have his painted by a local painter. The paint job is of incredible quality (too nice for a MTB if you ask me! But he said he's only going to hang it on the wall like the Seinfeld green Klein anyway... ;D
It is Dodge Viper Red and a Subaru metallic silver/blue. Wet sanded and cleared. Zero orange peel.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/download_20140730_173445.jpeg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/download_20140730_173445.jpeg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_112346.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_112346.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_112354.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_112354.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_112421.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_112421.jpg.html)
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Wow. That Matt / Gloss combo is awesome !
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For this build I gathered some tools. The first was a small torque wrench. I will write review on this unit in the Components subforum at a later date. But in a nut shell, it's good enough, but not great. I would buy something else next time.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140730_211319.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140730_211319.jpg.html)
I also spent some time in the machine shop after work one day and made a set of tools for the BB30 bearing install. Made from stainless steel and to very precise tolerances to make sure everything is aligned properly during install. I also made some spacers for the rear axle so solve a slight issue we found with the nut hex bottoming out on the drop out before the face of the nut did.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140801_195533.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140801_195533.jpg.html)
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On assembly day, we first started with the wheels and tires. I purchased some American Classic valve stems. They have incredible fit and finish and are very light. They seal well to the rim with a double oring system in the inside. The only issue we had was that the plastic mount for the outside of the rim is contoured for a narrow rim, but the wide rims we purchased were much more float on top. A little bit of sanding and the plastic sat flat on the rim. Looks perfect.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_110429.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_110429.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_110447.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_110447.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_110455.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_110455.jpg.html)
For rim tape, we used a single layer of 1" wide Gorilla Tape. It fits the rim PERFECTLY (tape is 25.4mm and the rim inner width is 26mm). The stuff was $260 a roll on Amazon. Each roll can do 4 rims with a single layer and 10mm overlap at the stem. We applied the rim tape and then cut an "X" at the valve stem hole and pressed the valves through.
Next, it was only a matter of putting the tire on the rim correctly (correct rotation direction). We used my compressor to fill them to 25 psi with no sealant to seat the bead. The RaRa tires seated quickly and easily on the hookless rims. We were done in a matter of 5 to 10 minutes with 4 wheels. Easily the easiest set of tubeless tires/rims I've ever worked with. Even without sealant, they held air for about an hour.
The Schwable tires and rims were a TIGHT fit:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_111004.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_111004.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_111445.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_111445.jpg.html)
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For rim tape, we used a single layer of 1" wide Gorilla Tape. It fits the rim PERFECTLY (tape is 25.4mm and the rim inner width is 26mm). The stuff was $260 a roll on Amazon. Each roll can do 4 rims with a single layer and 10mm overlap at the stem. We applied the rim tape and then cut an "X" at the valve stem hole and pressed the valves through.
That was some expensive Gorilla tape! ::)
Very nice pictures. You've got me wanting some of the American Classic valve stems! Had I known about them I would have ordered a set for my carbon wheels.
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The first two bikes in the stands:
Mine:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_112339.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_112339.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_112346.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_112346.jpg.html)
Installing the rotors. Shimano has a neat locking washer/bolt setup to prevent loose bolts from vibration:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_113303.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_113303.jpg.html)
The SRAM X01 cassette is a thing of beauty:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_114052.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_114052.jpg.html)
Except for the 42 tooth sprocket, the other 10 sprockets are machined from a single piece of material! That explains the super light weight, but also the high cost.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_114108.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_114108.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_114131.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_114131.jpg.html)
Wheels ready to go:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_114950.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_114950.jpg.html)
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The SRAM X01 derailleur is also exceptionally cool. This is my first SRAM derailleur is a LONG time and I really like the built in lock which opens the unit making rear wheels removal a breeze. Also, the sprockets on it are narrow/wide profile. Crazy.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_115158.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_115158.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_115623.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_115623.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_115627.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_115627.jpg.html)
And here are some close-ups of my frame:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_125924.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_125924.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_125932.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_125932.jpg.html)
I have to say, the rear brake cable was incredible difficult to route in my frame and the red/silver frame. Something around the BB area really seemed to grab it and hold it tight making feeding or pull the housing through were difficult. However, the matte/gloss black frame was super easy. we did that one last so perhaps we were more experienced? But in reality, I think something was a bit different in the first two frame. I nearly threw the bike out after I finally successfully routed the brake line only to realize I forgot to put the frame guide/insert on the line first. >:(
Some pictures of my BB30 install tool in action:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_152000.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_152000.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_152014.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_152014.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_152026.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_152026.jpg.html)
The tool made the bearing install a breeze. Very, very simple. Starting them straight was the only thing to watch for. However, my frame seemed easier for whatever the reason, like the bearings were looser than the other two frames. I REALLY hope that this does not translate to creaking/squeaking later on. This BB30 system has me nervous.
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Beautiful X01 carbon crank arms with weight:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_154104.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_154104.jpg.html)
SRAM 32-T chainring with weight:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_155612.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_155612.jpg.html)
2014 Rockshox SID XX G2 w/ lockout Fork with weight:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_171413.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_171413.jpg.html)
Rockshox front axle only:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_183453.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_183453.jpg.html)
SRAM X01 shifter weight (I forgot the clamp!):
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_171744.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_171744.jpg.html)
Gloss/Matte black bike in process:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_183706.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_183706.jpg.html)
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Friends working on the red/silver frame:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_183726.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_183726.jpg.html)
Crank and boots installed:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_183745.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_183745.jpg.html)
This is a good place to mention that the plastic tension ring on the BB30 crank is very terrible designed. It cannot exert any force before it cross-threads or jumps threads. Unfortunately, force is required to pull the crank spindle through the bearings and take up the play. On my bike, it gave us fits for whatever the reason. On the other two bikes we it worked OK, but was still kind of a pain.
I'm most worried about this BB30 system. I hope it is robust enough to get me through a couple thousand miles before needed a rebuild.
Oh, chain weight with all links. We had to remove ~6 links.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_200852.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_200852.jpg.html)
Filling the tires:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_203144.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_203144.jpg.html)
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Sorry for the erratic picture posting and large gaps in the process. We were too excited to think to take proper pictures of every step and all the things we learned.
Here are some close-ups of my bike:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_231746.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_231746.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_231805.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_231805.jpg.html)
Here are the bikes nearly finished or completely finished:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_200803.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_200803.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_200812.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_200812.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_231126.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_231126.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_231134.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140802_231134.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140803_081316.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140803_081316.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_000530.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_000530.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_000539.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_000539.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_000549.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_000549.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_000607.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_000607.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_003742.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_003742.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_003757.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_003757.jpg.html)
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Oh, and in a first (small) attempt at weight shaving, we pulled the direct-mount bolts and replaced them with small plastic "Christmas tree" plugs. We also capped off the front derailleur line behind the seat tube to keep junk out.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_000601.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140805_000601.jpg.html)
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Looks like the blue/orange needs to switch the stem and grips to the black/white bike
Otherwise, it is really cool to see the creativity put into these chiner frames....and ya'lls look great
Interestinly, the shifter and rear derailleur are heavier than I would have thought...you didn't happen to weigh the whole xo1 package did you?
I'll start a new thread on that.
Thanks for posting.
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Really liking the Blue/Orange bike, particularly the blue color.
Makes me wonder if I would be able to feel a difference between my XX1 and X01, and when the time comes to replace my cassette I may think about saving a little money and go with X01.
Let us know what you guys think about getting the rear derailleur adjusted. Took me a while before I figured out the issue I as having, when I installed XX1 on my FS, it was easier the second time around.
For the rear brake cable, did you try pushing the brake line from the caliper end, head tube end, or both? I always found it easier to route the cable from back to front/top.
Awesome pictures! Thank you very much for sharing them on Chinertown.
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Which valves did you put on? Are they Presta or Schrader?
Could you please give more details on how you fill the sealant through the valve?
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Which valves did you put on? Are they Presta or Schrader?
Could you please give more details on how you fill the sealant through the valve?
Those are Presta valves. Stan's has a "Stans Injector" that you can use to add sealant without removing the tire. You do this by removing the valve core, screwing on the Stans Injector hose to the valve stem, and injecting the sealant into the tire. Then you remove the injector, replace the valve core, and air up the tire. Makes it very easy. The Stans Injector also works with Orange Sealant which I like a little more than Stans.
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Thanks. So here is the injector: http://www.notubes.com/2oz-Tire-Sealant-Injector-P348.aspx
I remember seing this and thought it was for Schrader valves only.
But it is just the core remover tool they provide that is for Schrader.
I have already a seringue, a tube, and a presta valve adapter.
I will try to assemble them together.
But need to find a presta remover tool.
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Wow. That Matt / Gloss combo is awesome !
This. That may well be the finish of my next chiner.
Awesome looking rides, man.. I think you made the right choice with the black forks over the white ones.
I also routed my brake line from bottom to top and it was fairly easy.
Thanks for the update.
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Awesome bikes! Looking forward to hear how you do in the race next month.
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Interestinly, the shifter and rear derailleur are heavier than I would have thought...you didn't happen to weigh the whole xo1 package did you?
I'll start a new thread on that.
Thanks for posting.
Thanks for the compliments. I posted up my weights in your thread.
Really liking the Blue/Orange bike, particularly the blue color.
Makes me wonder if I would be able to feel a difference between my XX1 and X01, and when the time comes to replace my cassette I may think about saving a little money and go with X01.
Let us know what you guys think about getting the rear derailleur adjusted. Took me a while before I figured out the issue I as having, when I installed XX1 on my FS, it was easier the second time around.
For the rear brake cable, did you try pushing the brake line from the caliper end, head tube end, or both? I always found it easier to route the cable from back to front/top.
Awesome pictures! Thank you very much for sharing them on Chinertown.
Thanks. I really enjoy the blue as well. I could see adding more of it to the frame. It's a great powder blue and looks fine in matte. I am thinking that blue and a green for my Chinese road bike next year...
By all accounts, the difference between the XX1 and X01 is not perceptible. And the weights are really within standard deviations of each other at 40-50 grams difference. So many are left wondering why the premium for XX1 or why X01 even exists?
I'm still futzing with the derailleur setup... At first, there was some grinding. I readjusted/setup everything a couple of times with no avail. At the recommendation of a buddy, I cleaned off the factory sticky chain gunk and reoiled the chain with Finishline Dry Teflon lube. The grinding was nearly gone. Some sprinting/heavy loading and the grind was all gone. It is rougher in the 10T sprocket though. And I think that's due to the very small radius the chain links must make.
Today on my ride into work, it started getting noise back there. I think it's dry again. It certainly isn't out of adjustment as I played with the barrel adjuster for 30 minutes while riding as well as pushed the triggers gently to see if the noise lessened. It really sounds like it's out, but I just no it is not. Maybe time to readjust the b-screw again? Strange. I worked in a bike shop for a while and can dial in any rear derailleur in a minute or two. This one is tricky. :-\
I pushed the brake lines from the rear to the front. I was forced to as the Shimano lines have a crimped on rear banjo bolt fitting. I pushed the shifter cable from the top to the bottom. The brake line was very tricky as it seemed to get caught/punched on the aluminum BB shell.
Which valves did you put on? Are they Presta or Schrader?
Could you please give more details on how you fill the sealant through the valve?
Presta. By American Classic. 35mm. Removable core. As mentioned I used the Stan's injector. With a modified tip to hold the presta valve since the AC stems lack some threads on the end. Really the injector is a rip off and you can easily make your own for half the cost or less. But I needed it the day I bought it for a race the next morning.
But it is just the core remover tool they provide that is for Schrader.
I have already a seringue, a tube, and a presta valve adapter.
I will try to assemble them together.
But need to find a presta remover tool.
The Stan's tip fits both valve types, but not well. Some rubber tubing stretched over the end of the syringe and then over the valve works better. And is cheaper. Make your own if you can and save the money. For valve removal, I just use a tiny crescent wrench. Be very gently they don't need to be very tight at all. Just barely snug.
Awesome looking rides, man.. I think you made the right choice with the black forks over the white ones.
I also routed my brake line from bottom to top and it was fairly easy.
Thanks for the update.
Thank you! The black is more subtle and definitely looks great.
Awesome bikes! Looking forward to hear how you do in the race next month.
Thank you. And I'm super nervous for this race. It will be the furthest I've ever been on an MTB and nearly the furthest I've ever been on any bike. 108 mile record on my road bike. I just keep training and trying to get my mental state right. "The mind quits long before the body fails."
I'm also excited to see your final paint/decal scheme.
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I've been road riding my new bike the past few days to make sure everything is sound before I hit the trail.
Last night I did 20 miles and all was well except that I made the bike equivalent of forgetting to tighten your lug nuts... I left the rear axle loose and the lever flipped at some point and the thru axle nut fell off somewhere in a 10 mile radius of my house. :unamused: I was able to ride home with no damage to the bike, but the back wheel was loose in the frame and my shifting was off. I was able to find some one with a zip tie so I could hold the axle in the frame to get home.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140807_224324.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140807_224324.jpg.html)
But now I have no thru axle nut. I poured through my drawers and bolt jars, but couldn't find an M12x1.5 nut of any type. I dilled out an M10 nut and tried to tap it to M12x15, but the tap was too cheap and the nut was too hard (grade 10.9). So at midnight last night I was out in the garage redneck engineering a fix so I could ride the bike to work today. Since the thru axle was hollow, I drilled it out a bit over and tapped it to M8. Then I threaded in a bolt and some washers and then flipped the quick release lever to tighten the system up. Looks janky, works well. Today I'll wander down to the machine shop and make a replacement nut.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_134459.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_134459.jpg.html)
The ride into work was trouble free except my chain is a bit dry (it seems oil hungry, but perhaps that's because it's new?). It was 23 miles, but it really didn't feel bad; this bike pedals nearly as easy as my road bike. In fact, my cruising average wasn't too far off my road bike considering the wide, knobby tires and lack of aero position.
I got hell from the plant manager for having a bike in the office area though. He tried to get me to part it outside. I kindly informed him it wasn't going to sit outside in the AZ summer sun for 10 hours a day in an area where anyone of hundreds of people could tamper with it. He backed down and told me to get with the facilities group about an indoor bike rack.
Currently it's tucked behind the copier.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_112023.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_112023.jpg.html)
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OK, I took an hour and made some replacement axle nuts. I made these much larger to fill the cavity on the drop out unlike the original nut. This will allow us to advance the set screw and lock the nut into place. So it won't drop out when the axle is removed.
I didn't feel like tooling the mill up for wrench flats of a flat for the set screw. Maybe Monday. This works great for now.
M12x1.75 if anyone is wondering. Apparently the 12x142 standard has 3 different thread pitches, but the iPlay axles are coarse thread M12x1.75.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_170138.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_170138.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_170205.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_170205.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_170217.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_170217.jpg.html)
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Man.. That looks better than the nut that came with my axle. Nice and flush. Nice work.
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Nice work! IMO, the nut would look even better if it were flush to the hanger and had a black nickel coating.
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Yeah, it needs to be black. I didn't make it flush though because then the threaded portion of the axle would stock out past the nut. I suppose I could shorten the axle as well...
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Now that you say the axle threads out to the end, the thickness if fine. I like to have as much thread engagement as originally designed. It looks good silver as well. What material did you use? 301 SS or something else?
I'm now thinking I would like to have one for each of my bikes, what would you charge to make a few of those?
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Now that you say the axle threads out to the end, the thickness if fine. I like to have as much thread engagement as originally designed. It looks good silver as well. What material did you use? 301 SS or something else?
I'm now thinking I would like to have one for each of my bikes, what would you charge to make a few of those?
I used high grade aluminum. It's nice and light. 304 or similar SS would certainly work, but its heavy (relatively!) and a bit harder to machine quickly.
The money for the part isn't the issue, but more the time on the machines to knock a few out. I'd really only be looking for postage and gas money. Let me see if I can get on the machines this week and make a few. :)
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I put some street miles on the bike on Friday; 46 miles in total to and from work. A good portion of the ride is on the streets with traffic, but there are a few miles riding along the canals. There was a neat sunset on the way home. Overall, the bike was a joy to ride and is nearly as snappy as my road bike. (not saying much as my "road" bike is actually a converted cyclocross bike that weighs in at 24lbs). I was able to ride comfortably at 16-19 mph the whole way.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_190308.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_190308.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_190419.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_190419.jpg.html)
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I took some time on Saturday to prep the bike for her first off-road voyage by applying paint protection in all the common impact areas. I used some 8-10 mil thick racers tape in a 2" width. Same stuff as "helicopter tape" or 3M films. It can be applied wet or dry. I cut it with scissors and an exacto-knife, using round things in the garage for the radius corners.
Downtube. I went from here all the way under the BB. I cut out a section for the bottom access door.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140809_181200.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140809_181200.jpg.html)
Inside the chainstays. The film is highly flexible so this was very easy.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140809_181219.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140809_181219.jpg.html)
The XX1/X01 cogset gets the chain VERY close to this frame in the smallest cog. In this gear, the chain is less than 2mm from the frame. The chain doesn't touch, but I could see it bouncing into the frame on a rough shift or dirt getting squeezed between the frame and the chain. So I protected it here too.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140809_181241.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140809_181241.jpg.html)
Inside the seatstays. I didn't get this one applied quite straight enough.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140809_181321.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140809_181321.jpg.html)
The tape isn't noticeable from more than a foot. Except that it makes my matte paint glossy! Still, you can't really see it.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140809_181357.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140809_181357.jpg.html)
I also did the area around the front chainring (in case a chain drops), the crank arms (between the SRAM film and the pedal), and the chainstays (where my feet rub or chain slaps).
Lastly, I used some old road bike grip-tape to wrap the chainstay for added protection.
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Now for the exciting news: my first trail ride with this bike!
On Sunday I traveled out to SanTan Mountain Park to meet my coworkers for a ride (they were on their new Chinese carbon bikes as well). We met up at about 6:30 AM and the place was swimming with hikers all trying to beat the heat. We started at 85° and ended at about 102°. All totaled, I did about 30 miles.
My impressions are below. Let me preface this with the following: This is my first hardtail in a decade. This is also my first carbon anything. So many of my impressions are probably due to this being a completely different animal than my last bike and not necessarily due to the fact that it is a Chinese carbon bike.
CLIMBING: This bike climbs like a goat! Its actually the most noticeable thing about the bike that I observed on this ride. I was making great time on hills that were burdensome before. I'm certain some of this was due to new bike adrenaline and increased fitness (I've been training on the spin bikes and road bike a lot in the past month), but much of it was also due to a properly fitted hardtail with minimal weight. I was able to negotiate all hills I encountered with the exception of one which I had to hop off for a technical reason (lost traction near the top and spun out in some gravel). The 32T 42/10T XX1/X01 gearing was just fine. I wasn't looking for any higher or lower gears.
The short chainstays and the shorter ETT length (compared to my Giant) put me in a sweet spot to stand and power up hills. Besides the one spin out, it was sold and planted. And I was running pretty high pressure at ~25-27 psi. I think I will try 23-24 psi on the next ride. There are a few seated, ultra tight climbing switchbacks and I was able to power up them with ease. On the Giant, the long wheelbase would always swing me out wide and I'd run out of trail.
I was also really trying to power some of these climbs to see how much the bike would flex. Well, it doesn't. Any flex seems to be the tire on the rim. Besides that, the frame is stiff as hell and resists pedaling forces. The wheels seem the same. WAY, WAY, WAY stiffer (in terms of pedaling forces) than my Giant FS. I mean not even comparable really.
COMFORT/RIDE QUALITY: This is a fairly rocky trail and I will admit, the hardtail beat me up a bit. I have a lot of work to do to improve the lines I pick and to judge when to stand over an obstacle. My FS Anthem is more "comfortable", but also far more unwieldy than this bike. When I tried to focus on my lines and put together a smooth ride, I found the comfort level to be much improved. I suspect that on longer rides, as I get fatigued, I will get sloppy on my lines and standing technique and will get beat up more than on the FS. But the lack of "bobbing" and "bouncing" while pedaling on flats and climbs offset it, at least on this day. After 30 miles I wasn't dying to get off, and my back wasn't killing me.
I really can speak to the damping qualities of the carbon as compared to an aluminum or steel hardtail though as its been years since I've seriously ridden either. I can say that the carbon frame seems loader. Pebble strikes and such amplify throughout the frame. It's loud, but not alarming or anything. It's really just a strange... "hollow" feeling/sound. It doesn't feel "solid" like a metal frame, but I don't mean that in a negative way. It feels like plastic and I can see why riding a carbon bike might make some die-hards nervous as it sounds breakable.
The free coaster hub buzzes like angry bees on fast downhills. Very cool.
Overall, the bike is highly maneuverable compared to the Giant. I had zero issues getting it to go where I pointed it regardless of speed or traction. I am likely not as fast on the downhills yet. Perhaps I'll get more bold and feel out the bike a bit more. But I bet I'm damn close to where I used to be.
I'm hoping that with increased fitness and a more efficient climbing bike, I can make some good gains on the climbs. I may loose some time on the downhills, but I don't think those are what win races anyway (at least not the type I do). A climb is a long event in most rides. It might take you 20+ minutes. If you can improve your time by 10%, then you're saving a lot more time overall than if you improve our downhill time by 10% on a 2 minute descent. My strategy is to go a little harder on the climbs and use the descent to recover. I hope this bike will support that strategy.
I encountered three problems with the bike:
1) The brake line inside the downtube was LOUD. Thwack! over every bump. And the whole carbon frame acted as an amplifier. :unamused: I fixed this last night with about $0.10 worth of foam pushed into the down tube. It pins the brake line against the tube so that it can't hop around. Dead silent now even if I drop the bike from two feet in the air.
2) The headset loosened up some and was creaking from time to time. Last night I disassembled it and greased the contact points between the headset bearings and the frame/steerer tube. It seems silent now so we'll have to see how it does with trail abuse this week.
3) My seat post dropped about 0.5" over the course of the ride. Not enough that it impacted my riding, but it felt a bit "off". I will apply some more gritty carbon paste and retighten it and keep an eye on it.
Pictures:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140810_104317.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140810_104317.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140810_102805.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140810_102805.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140810_102712.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140810_102712.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/PANO_20140810_102728.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/PANO_20140810_102728.jpg.html)
I miss the comfort of the Giant Anthem over the rocky areas, but the efficiency of this bike is worth it. It will be nice to have both for whatever type of riding I'm feeling like. My wife seems to have forgotten about my promise to sell the Giant to build the Chiner. :D
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And for those curious, here is the foam inside the downtube to stop the cable noise. The foam is that stuff used to cover outdoor pipes. I trimmed it a bit to fit. There are two ~2.5" long pieces in the downtube. One at the water bottle cage mounts and one at the top near the headset. I positioned the missing section to be where the shifter cable is to prevent any interference and then pushed them into place with a small dowel. They are reasonably snug in there and work well so far.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140810_162842.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140810_162842.jpg.html)
Here is the headset after disassembly after the ride. The top bearing had some signs of movement in the headset (brown marks on the bearing indicate movement/hot-spotting. There was also a bunch of carbon/paint/clear coat flakes/dust. I cleaned both races very well and applied a thin layer of silicon grease made for car suspension. So far it seems quiet, but only trail testing will let us know for sure.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140810_163652.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140810_163652.jpg.html)
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I put some street miles on the bike on Friday; 46 miles in total to and from work. A good portion of the ride is on the streets with traffic, but there are a few miles riding along the canals. There was a neat sunset on the way home. Overall, the bike was a joy to ride and is nearly as snappy as my road bike. (not saying much as my "road" bike is actually a converted cyclocross bike that weighs in at 24lbs). I was able to ride comfortably at 16-19 mph the whole way.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_190308.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_190308.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_190419.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140808_190419.jpg.html)
Great work Vips ! Love the shadow photo.
Think its only right to get your mates builds photos up here too ! :D
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Shadow pic really is eye catching. Thanks for taking the time to post all those pictures as well as all the write up and ride review. Overall I think most of what you posted is also true for the IP-057, the ride quality, the maneuverability, and the stiffness are all things that I immediately noticed I liked over my previous AL hardtail.
Looks like all you guys are happy with your Chiners.
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It's good to get the feedback from you guys with previous hardtail experience. Like I said, it's hard for me to know what is a result if the carbon as a material and what is the result of the hardtail frame as a chassis. I'm beginning to think much of it can be attributed to the shear stiffness of the carbon material on the 057 or 256. I would really like to ride two materials back to back. I have found Chinese/Taiwanese aluminum hardtails on eBay for $200-300. They look nice, but are at least one pound heavier and didn't seem to have BB30 or tapered head tubes. Though I didn't search long. But that's a really cheap experiment!
I have been delinquent on pictures of my buddies' bikes. They have removed the bikes from my garage so it's hard to get pictures now. I'll work on it though.
Lastly, as promised, Peter delivered my rigid fork today. It's light. It is almost exactly 1000g lighter than the SID I have which translates to 2.2lbs lighter when installed. I will wait to install it until after my races coming up in September. I have a race picked out in December that I think I'll try it on. It's a 12 hour team race doing laps on my favorite 15 mile loop out here. I know the trail like the back of my hand and it's pretty smooth for 85% of it.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140812_210802.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140812_210802.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140812_210818.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140812_210818.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140812_210853.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140812_210853.jpg.html)
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Nice fork Vipassana! No trails close to me that I would ride a rigid fork but if I built a bike for commuting it would be a good way to go, it so light get still provides good ride quality.
Vipassana, what state you in? Looks like some of your pictures are from out West.
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Arizona. Burn and bred.
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Is "burn and bred" is a typo or a common Arizona saying? :)
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Ha! Yeah, a typo but this time of year maybe it's subconsciously what I meant.
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What saddle did you go with?
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I actually haven't bought a saddle for this bike yet. I grabbed the cheap Velo/Fuji OEM saddle off my cross/road bike and threw it on the bike. It works OK. Not great, but fine until I find something better. My buddy went with a Ritchey WCS in white.
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Nice STi by the way as well. 30r ? rotated? I have an 04 built for road racing.
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Thanks! It's actually a Spec-C Ver. 8 EJ207 with functioning AVCS (tricky with this motor on the 32-bit USDM cars), 8500 rpm redline. Turning a cute little ball-bearing, twin-scroll VF-36. My last setup was a build EJ255 with a 30r. The old setup was wicked fast. The new setup is a bit slower, but really fun to drive and revs for days.
I think I recognize your username from NASIOC?
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Oh wow. Nice. Its been a while since I have been on those forums but I was on IWSTI more.
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I encountered three problems with the bike:
1) The brake line inside the downtube was LOUD. Thwack! over every bump. And the whole carbon frame acted as an amplifier. :unamused: I fixed this last night with about $0.10 worth of foam pushed into the down tube. It pins the brake line against the tube so that it can't hop around. Dead silent now even if I drop the bike from two feet in the air.
2) The headset loosened up some and was creaking from time to time. Last night I disassembled it and greased the contact points between the headset bearings and the frame/steerer tube. It seems silent now so we'll have to see how it does with trail abuse this week.
3) My seat post dropped about 0.5" over the course of the ride. Not enough that it impacted my riding, but it felt a bit "off". I will apply some more gritty carbon paste and retighten it and keep an eye on it.
Thanks for these great tips. My new IP-256SL rode beautifully the first time out
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Thanks for all the details you put into this thread, it's really going to help me with my 256 build. I love the color scheme on your "Gulf" bike. I have a Cervelo S2 road bike that is black with blue lettering, so I plan to do something like you did with the black and blue to match it. I hope it turns out as good as yours did!
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How are the wheels holding?
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Thanks for the compliment. This week I'll install the carbon fork and new seat.
The wheels are holding up really well. Color me impressed. They are super stiff and are still as true as the day I got them. The only issue I've had and this is not really with the wheels, but they got some stone chips on them from transporting them being the car without mud flaps. I need to install some mud flaps soon.
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Keep your carbon wheels away from any hot exhaust on your car. Ask me how I know :(.
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I knew that much thanks to you! I bought a trailer hitch extender to move the wheels away from the exhaust. But the rock chips, though minor, were a bummer. They're definitely the result of some dirt road excursions in the Forester. Mud flaps are in order.
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Wow, what a thorough writeup, it was fun to read through that! Thanks for putting as much effort into the writeup as you did the build!
One comment I could make is re: the Stan's injector. I've got one, always found it to be a pain in the ass. What I find to be far more effective is Stan's own little 2oz bottles. I've bought six or so of them, and each holds exactly one "standard sized" dose of sealant, so there's no need to measure it out. Take out the valve core (stan's tool for that is great) and then shoot the sealant in directly from the sharp tip of the little bottle. Then refill it from a big container of Stan's. Easy peasy, so much less work than the injector.
Really loved all of your really clever and innovative pieces that you made through the build, as well. Love the custom axle nut.
Finally, I didn't see any photos which really demonstrate the rear tire clearance with the 2.25" Ralphs. Could you post one? I've run 2.4" Ralphs in the past and love them but very few of my current frames clear them. Mounted on a set of ZTR Arch wheels, they're about 58mm in the casing and almost 61mm across the knobs. They "clear" on some of my frames, but any type of out-of-the-saddle shenanigans results in rubbing, which is not good.
Thanks again!
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Hi Vipassana, are you happy with the IP-SP7 seatpost?
Is it easy to setup to the right angle?
And does it keep it well?
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Really loved all of your really clever and innovative pieces that you made through the build, as well. Love the custom axle nut.
There's a thread with a guy selling them if you're wanting one: http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,306.0.html
I agree though, great build thread Vipassana!
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Yeah, saw that, and it'll depend on which bike I wind up with - if I get one with a TA, def. gonna be looking at one of those.
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What's the QFactor of the cranks (long or short spindle)? wondering if with 168mm the 36T chainring would fit..
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The cracks we used were 168mm q-factor with a 32T ring. I think there is run for a 34T, but I'm not certain. 36T might be pushing it. Plus you'd need some legs for a 36T on the climbs!
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I've always been a low cadency rider. Probably will take 34T spiderless Oval ...
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For this build I gathered some tools. The first was a small torque wrench. I will write review on this unit in the Components subforum at a later date. But in a nut shell, it's good enough, but not great. I would buy something else next time.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140730_211319.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140730_211319.jpg.html)
I'm needing a torque wrench ASAP. On the short, what did you not like about the Venzo?
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I've got the same torque wrench and there is nothing wrong with this tools. Small, easy to use. Would buy it again. Maybe not a professional tool, but for occasionally use it's perfect.
http://www.rosebikes.com/article/rose-2-24-nm-torque-wrench/aid:688277
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Could you tell me what are your (approximate) brake cable lengths in your build(s) ? Got really nice offer on R1's and I'm wondering if 65/156 cm front/rear will be enough.
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Those should be long enough for a 19" as new brakes usually come with 1600 and 1000 front....front may be close
If those are 2012 or older you may think twice about them....very little tolerance for brake disc in the caliper
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Yeah, know this issue. Still, with thru axle taking wheel in and out should be more repeatable once set they will serve, I hope.
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Thinking further - look for thin disc's....off the top of my head I know the quaxar iris I have I chose initially because they are light but also because they were thin (1.7 vs. a lot of discs are 2). I was initially wanting a set of Formula R1s.
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How is your headset holding up? I also had some "movement trouble" on the top bearing.
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Vipassana: Great builds. Loving the blue/orange one and the glossy/matt-back best!
Do you have more pictures of the glossy/matt black bike? Loving the look and thinking about stealing it :) Other side of the world (Netherlands), so I recon the owner won't mind :)
Gonna get the same fork as you got (xmi carbon). Guess glossy outside and matt inside would look best on the glossy/matt frame (glossy what is blue on your fork). Agree?
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Could you tell me what are your (approximate) brake cable lengths in your build(s) ? Got really nice offer on R1's and I'm wondering if 65/156 cm front/rear will be enough.
Sorry, I missed this question. Do you still need the lengths? I can measure them today if you do.
How is your headset holding up? I also had some "movement trouble" on the top bearing.
Headset is holding up great. No issues that I can detect. It worked itself ever so slightly loose the other day, but a quick loosening of the stem and tightening of the top bolt corrected everything. I also had a fall on the trail and rotated the handlebars inline with the front wheel so I had to fix it by the side if the trail, that's probably why it worked it's way loose.
Vipassana: Great builds. Loving the blue/orange one and the glossy/matt-back best!
Do you have more pictures of the glossy/matt black bike? Loving the look and thinking about stealing it :) Other side of the world (Netherlands), so I recon the owner won't mind :)
Gonna get the same fork as you got (xmi carbon). Guess glossy outside and matt inside would look best on the glossy/matt frame (glossy what is blue on your fork). Agree?
I'm sorry, but I actually don't have anymore pictures if the gloss/matte black frame. At least bit clean, close-up photos. I can tell you that the effect is very subtle, hardly noticeable, but still nice. I ink mate on the inside of the fork would be good as the gloss paint, without some form of protection will scratch and chip as sand and rocks hit it from the tires. My matte paint is holding up incredibly well actually. The red and blue gloss bike is holding up extremely well too, but that was a professional paint job using automotive grade paints and clear coats.
The best thing I can recommend, no matter what paint you choose is to buy some of the protective, thick, vinyl tape. That stuff has saved our paint from damage countless times. Do the bottom of the down tube, inside if the chain and seat stays, seat post where your bad sits, handlebars where your computer/light sits, etc. Well with the money. Just remember, the tape is glossy and will make matte paint appear glossy. It isn't very obvious though.
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Hi Vipassana, are you happy with the IP-SP7 seatpost?
Is it easy to setup to the right angle?
And does it keep it well?
I missed this too; man, I'm bad at responding... :-[
I have had zero issues with the seat post. It crashed just a bit at first, but a spot of grease on three contact points between the aluminum parts fixed it and it's been silent for hundreds of miles now. It hold position perfectly. On three first ride, it dripped into the frame a bit, but a gritty carbon paste and checking torque fixed that immediately.
My boss just got his in gloss 3k finish and it looks incredible.
This post is ultra light and well worth the cost.
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I've been neglectful of posting up pictures of these bikes. We've all been riding then a lot, or at least as work allows us to. I'm still absolutely in love with the bike and super happy with its performance. My coworkers feel the same way with theirs.
Here is my bike and the gloss/matte black bike out at a local trail:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/download_20140812_213733.jpeg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/download_20140812_213733.jpeg.html)
Here is my bike, the red/silver-blue bike, and a brand new IP-036 that my boss just built ( it's a really sweet bike that turned out well and it makes me want one...) :
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20141127_124004.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20141127_124004.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20141127_124043.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20141127_124043.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20141127_124038.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20141127_124038.jpg.html)
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We also competed in a race yesterday (we're fast becoming team Chiner with 4 I play bikes and one Big S and a nice Santa Cruz). It was a dawn to dusk relay ride on a ~14 mile loop. We had 3 Duo teams in total at our camp. Each rider did 4 laps.
The morning started out chilly and rainy. The trail was a mud bog for the first 3 or 4 laps. After that it was really nice, damp, hardpack. At the very end if the day, a storm blew in and looked pretty fierce; the city nearby had 50mph wind gusts and hail. So we packed it in. But technically be probably could have squeezed in another lap on each team.
All of the bikes preformed great. The IP-036 has a flat. My 256 and the gloss/matte black 256 both had shifting troubles in gears 9-11 (delayed shifting). This trouble came after we both rode through a deep mud puddle. I found out later that this was due to water and grit getting into the shift cable line in the chain stay. This caused the cable to have too much friction fur the derailleur to pull it. When I opened the trap door on the bottom of the frame, muddy water poured out. I will clean out the cable route and pack it with grease. Or maybe drill out the stops and run a cable housing throughout add others have done. I'm nervous to try this though. I will also look for a way to seal that little sir a bit better.
The highlight of the day was the hipster at the next tent over telling me just how light his SS, rigid bike was at just above 19 lbs and how his titanium frame has been awesome and had only cracked twice (!). I thought to myself, I have gears and a suspension fork and my bike is only 1.5lbs heavier!
Overall a fun event.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/download_20141213_184212.jpeg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/download_20141213_184212.jpeg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/download_20141213_184223.jpeg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/download_20141213_184223.jpeg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/IMG_20141213_130346.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/IMG_20141213_130346.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/IMG_20141213_130352.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/IMG_20141213_130352.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/IMG_20141213_130411.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/IMG_20141213_130411.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/IMG_20141213_130431.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/IMG_20141213_130431.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/IMG_20141213_130436.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Dawn%20to%20Dusk%20-%202014/IMG_20141213_130436.jpg.html)
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Nice update ! It's always a pleasure to read your extensive updates (in this topic and in your Barn Burner 2014 topic).
Or maybe drill out the stops and run a cable housing throughout add others have done. I'm nervous to try this though.
Don't be nervous, it's not that difficult. The only difficulty is getting from the rear to the bottom bracket because there're some blocks on that way. You have to put some effort in finding the right way for the hose, but it's not impossible.
The highlight of the day was the hipster at the next tent over telling me just how light his SS, rigid bike was at just above 19 lbs and how his titanium frame has been awesome and had only cracked twice (!). I thought to myself, I have gears and a suspension fork and my bike is only 1.5lbs heavier!
Smile! And you had more fun with building you bike :)
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Thnx for the helpfull updates. Glad to hear you still like your bike :) Makes me even more sure to buy one (parts allready ordered, just trying to choose my paintjob carefully) :)
You all run 1x11 right? Do you know whether, in 1x10 (will be same I guess) a 34/36 chainring is possible? I want to go for the 34t Oval chainring of absolute black, but not sure this will fit. Can seems to find build with an oval chainring online... :)
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The paint job is always the hardest part!
Yes, we all run the X01 system. I can't speak too much on the 1x10 systems as I'm not too familiar with them. However, I saw them everywhere at the race so they must be doing something right. The cost of such a setup compared to the XX1/X01 is enticing. I think I would miss the 10T gear, but perhaps a 34T front chainring would help there. I might try a 1x10 setup on my wife's bike when I build her one sometime.
As for the oval ring, I really want to try one as well. I'm waiting for a spiderless 32T version for the BB30 X01 crank set and then I'll purchase that way I could save some weight while I'm at it. If you get your installed, definitively tell us what you think of it.
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Is that a new saddle? I've been trying to find more info on the spider web saddles, since I broke a rail on my old saddle. I got an Origin8 saddle from Amazon since it was cheap and only took 2 days. Feels OK so far, but it is a bit heavy.
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Is that a new saddle? I've been trying to find more info on the spider web saddles, since I broke a rail on my old saddle. I got an Origin8 saddle from Amazon since it was cheap and only took 2 days. Feels OK so far, but it is a bit heavy.
http://m.aliexpress.com/search.htm?keywords=mtb+saddle+spider
:)
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A good point somebody mentioned in chinertown, the spider seats allow road junk through to your clothes - just a thought.
Otherwise, if you google carbon bike seat in aliexpress you will come up with tons - here is a good one that has been pawned as a specialized seat(doesn't stay up long when painted that way): http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Specials-NO-LOGO-Full-Carbon-Fiber-Bicycle-Saddle-Road-MTB-Bike-Carbon-Saddle-seat-Matte-3K/32235280880.html
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Thanks guys- I knew I had seen some posts on here before about the web saddles, but couldn't find them. Are they all the same? For around $10 for the web saddles or $25 for the full composite ones it won't hurt to just try one, but if there is a 'better' version out there I'd like to get it.
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Thanks guys- I knew I had seen some posts on here before about the web saddles, but couldn't find them. Are they all the same? For around $10 for the web saddles or $25 for the full composite ones it won't hurt to just try one, but if there is a 'better' version out there I'd like to get it.
I bought this spider saddle with the thoughts "for this money, it won't stay long". After four month and 800 km, I've still the same saddle. :)
But a saddle is personal. Not everybody have got the same ass (sit bones).
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I think all the spider web style saddles are the same. And the color selection is awesome. It's held up really well. It's not terrible comfortable. But it's not terrible either. Things always seem to go numb for me ~30 miles in and after that I'm good to go for quite a while.
I would like to try one of the carbon ones as well.
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I've been delinquent in updating this thread. Parts have started to arrive from iplay and elsewhere. We have received one frame IP-256 frame, and many of the smaller carbon parts like bars and posts. The wheels were shipped last week and should arrive late this week or early next. The two frames getting paint will ship this week.
IP-SP7 Seat Post - 180g:
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_183749.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140716_183749.jpg.html)
By the way, is this weight for 350mm seatpost or 400mm?
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How is the ride holding up? Everything stil in order? Feel free to post some more pictures ;)
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By the way, is this weight for 350mm seatpost or 400mm?
I actually don't think I ever measured the length... I would think it's 350mm though. I just installed it as I play sent it.
How is the ride holding up? Everything stil in order? Feel free to post some more pictures ;)
The bike is holding up great. No issues with the carbon offsets at all. I've been getting a bit of creaking out of the BB recently, but only on high torque efforts. It's possible that the grease for washed out on the last couple of rides and the mud/dust got in so I'll tear it down soon and regrease everything. I'm being this will fix things right up.
I don't think I have any new pictures. I still need to install that rigid fork and will post when I do that.
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Bumping the most viewed thread on Chinertown - almost at 10k views. Great pics, detailed and concise writing, and three bad ass bikes.. Thanks for the awesome thread, Vipassana!
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I have the web saddle on all of my bikes. Just love it. Light, very comfy(I was amazed how comfy!) super cool looking(gets tons of comments)and less than $10 shipped. Highly recommended!!!
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can i ask you a question... my 256sl and x0 cranks like yours i guess... did you used any washers mounting the crankset?
another thing on one side the bearing sits there and problem solved, on the other side (non drive side) the bearing moves outwards (it does not get out of the frame, but comes out of place) just by removing the arm, so i guess is not very tight there. I read you come up with something like that... now i have some noise coming from the BB. In your case how's it going? any suggestions?
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Most people use loctite (just can't remember which number exactly at the moment) to secure the bearings.
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Most people use loctite (just can't remember which number exactly at the moment) to secure the bearings.
It is the LOCTITE n° 641
@arraider, What kind of bottom bracket do you have (BB30? PF30? Other?)
I used initially the standard SRAM PF30, but switched to a bbinfinite.com one.
Which provides a far better alignment of the bearings.
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thanks will try loctite 641.. it's BB30, original SRAM bearings
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Just finished reading the whole thread. Very nice write up.
But I must have missed the comments/results on the Sept race you were preparing for early on.
Great looking bikes. Only thing I would change would be that white stem.
I cracked my LT023 back in Oct and I'm still trying to decide what frame to get. In the meantime I have a metal clamp around the seat tube where the crack goes 2/3 of the way around. Seems to ride OK except when railing into a corner. But for real technical riding I usually go with my fully.
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And for those curious, here is the foam inside the downtube to stop the cable noise. The foam is that stuff used to cover outdoor pipes. I trimmed it a bit to fit. There are two ~2.5" long pieces in the downtube. One at the water bottle cage mounts and one at the top near the headset. I positioned the missing section to be where the shifter cable is to prevent any interference and then pushed them into place with a small dowel. They are reasonably snug in there and work well so far.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140810_162842.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20140810_162842.jpg.html)
Vipassana,
I bought some of the same insulation...but I can't get it into the downtube. I tried slowly pushing and twisting the insulation...but after a few inches...it would stop going in. I've tried from the top and bottom of the headtube. Is there a better method of doing this? Its appears that it's only the shift housing that rattles and it's in the first few inches where the housing enters the frame.
Thanks!
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Does your downtube look open and clear of obstructions? I cut a small wedge out of the foam so that it could close down a bit more, did you do that same? Also, my piece is only a few inches in length.
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There are no obstructions to the downtube. Maybe I need to cut the insulation more. :P
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great bikes!! how are they doing?
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Thank you.
The bikes are as follows:
- The Orange/Blue one (my bike) has about a year's worth of riding on it; several thousand miles at this point. It is doing great. I ride at ~160-165 lbs (175-180 with kit). I no longer use my road bike, but rather this bike for all my riding. I have crashed it pretty hard 2-3 times with little to no frame damage (mostly my body :-\ ). The frame has taken two major rock strikes resulting in carbon damage, but not really any cracks that I can see. One strike was on the tiny seat-stay, which makes me nervous, but it's holding up just fine. I had a HORRID creaking noise which I was certain was the BB30. After 5 or 6 BB rebuilds, with no change, I looked elsewhere and found out it was due to dry contact between the rear wheel axle and rear dropouts. Grease fixed it instantly.
The wheels were doing great until a spoke broke last weekend. There was a break right in the middle of one of the spokes. I have replacements coming ($3 each!) and should have it fixed tonight. Everything else, including the $8 Chinese saddle has been awesome. - The Silver/Red bike has had a similar use to my bike. The owner rides at ~175-180 lbs (+10 lbs for kit). It has been crashed 3-4 times pretty hard as well. It shows a slight crack in the paint on the segment that goes between the seat stays and the seat tube, but it is super small (almost not visible I guess) and doesn't appear to be growing or anything. I really think it's some normal paint cracking from general flex of the frame. This frame has very thick paint and clear on it of the automotive variety.
The Novatec rear hub freewheel mechanism broke on a ride and has since been replaced with a DT Swiss. It is CLEAR that the DT Swiss mechanism is far better than the out-dated pawl system on the Novatec hub. Just get the DT Swiss from the start.
This bike just completed the Cedar City Fire Road race of the Leadville series this past weekend. - The Black/Black one has been ridden less than the other two, but still has maybe 1000 miles on it. The owner rides at ~155-160 lbs (+10 for kit). This bike is doing fine as well though it has a creak that we suspect is coming from the rear wheel/dropouts, I just haven't taken the time to grease it yet. No issues with the bike at all besides some cosmetic damage from crashes and bad bike racks).
I would not hesitate to buy this frame again. If I needed a new bike tomorrow, I would do this build again. Though I'm thinking of trying a CS-041 as well as soon as funds allow.
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Thank you. I will be buying my last part (fork) this week so finally I will be able to assemble it.
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Thanks for the update! What a kickass thread (and bikes)!
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I had a HORRID creaking noise which I was certain was the BB30. After 5 or 6 BB rebuilds, with no change, I looked elsewhere and found out it was due to dry contact between the rear wheel axle and rear dropouts. Grease fixed it instantly.
Funny to read this. I had really the same issue. Made me mad. And now, after greasing the dropout, the bike is silent again.
The Novatec rear hub freewheel mechanism broke on a ride and has since been replaced with a DT Swiss. It is CLEAR that the DT Swiss mechanism is far better than the out-dated pawl system on the Novatec hub. Just get the DT Swiss from the start.
out-dated pawl system ? Do you had the 3 of 4 pawls system. I've got the 4-pawls system and I don't have any issues.
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The Novatec rear hub freewheel mechanism broke on a ride and has since been replaced with a DT Swiss. It is CLEAR that the DT Swiss mechanism is far better than the out-dated pawl system on the Novatec hub. Just get the DT Swiss from the start.
My thoughts exactly! The star ratchet design used by DT Swiss (and others) is a better design by far.
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Bumping this thread up from the dead for a bit of an update.
We were able to coordinate a ride with all three bikes this past weekend. This is the first time all three have been together in over a year. Work, children, life and made it so there were only two of us riding together at any one time for too long.
I'm happy to report that all three are still running great with zero issues related to the China carbon parts. The SRAM drivetrains have also been remarkably reliable. All of us are still on the original headset and crank bearings. Only I've needed to replace a chain and chainring. All cassettes are still going strong. This is probably due to very regular cleaning and maintenance coupled with our normally dry climate. There have been some broken spokes and a freewheel along the way, but no cracked carbon.
A+ for the IP-256SL and for the wheels/cockpit components. We all agree that these bikes have been some of the best money we've spent.
Next year we are planning to build full suspension XC race bikes. But we will be using the Specialized Epic frame as a starting point. I just feel that there isn't anything directly comparable from the Chinese vendors yet, though that could change.
Here are some pictures after our morning ride of ~18 miles.
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20170709_090359.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20170709_090359.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20170709_090435.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20170709_090435.jpg.html)
(http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w167/kpluiten/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20170709_090423.jpg) (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/kpluiten/media/Carbon%20Hardtail%20Build/IMG_20170709_090423.jpg.html)
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UPDATE: One of the three musketeers was killed in action about a month ago and sadly it was mine (the orange, blue, and black frame). :'( The frame was cracked on the right seat stay in two places.
I need to stress at this point that it was not a fault of the frame, but instead a mistake/accident on my part.
I was riding at about 2-3 mph and went to bunny hop up onto a curb. My right foot wasn't clipped in properly and slipped off of the pedal. I came down with my the arch of my foot on the rear seat stay. Since I was rolling forward, the rotating wheel caught my heel and forced it down in between the spokes and the seat stay. I felt my foot getting caught and heard a crunch. I've never heard carbon crack before, but I knew instantly what it was.
I ended up riding the bike 10 miles home without issue except for a popping noise when pedaling.
It feels like losing a friend. I've had this bike for 3.5 years now and put thousands and thousands of miles on it. I was riding it 9 to 12 hours a week for the entirety of 2015. And plenty of riding in 2016 and 2017 as well. Everything from road rides to rock gardens. I could not be more pleased with the 256-SL frame.
I have contacted Peter. The CS-256-SL is out of production now. He had a single one left in stock, but I decided to upgrade to the CS-218-SL with the improved seat stays and thinner seat post. I'll have a build thread up soon.
Here are some pictures of the breaks:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/5EfhZeO1HkRYjyXJNfVJN3jxun0lfJorc7lSeJL8ZgRZCaxdiOx5xzs2DunB7IIZfID4yua2mKyP7H5ddjWAwmycEEYZ-_0OwArL3lFDDOrqZ44ABuQgIxNXqoiXrVkLdATSz0E_K_Y)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eXWD_ovRB2GI3UQu0MtlnxbCo_r8tNHkFPl-BLO9jXCwygBwsP2zuRT5NattUdw_qFTjJBWcFl4jpf_dcE7V25GlsU2WGzB59wFI9GlDG9H9lRoTfWtiJ041QFAOJJozwyMsE71U-YM)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/VInnYANKKAVquXSGdZ-yAVd5I9qa2KqUV7haS7jAG4FRrW0uJLK5U8KzowielmiZWpF8OLGAexNIArA4_9s7cEuEL1jBDWyOcCB9hU0InIcWDx6eX9ZwsjYPRcBd1vlBmgGWkAOnYJE)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/UqnW-Ui3jM23_uXI8DHjRsto-8UtGiMl06Ye2NE6R8Ln-zu4eVGBaanzBkmuLmW6XdqbXf-qVsyk2se7hoj7WttnWCB2Nt6mxT3Oc6cI3cCe3RVmcTTIRdFCV_OqT5ySOXeEMfEasWY)
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On the bright side, you'll get to build D'Artagnan.